Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ::I’m so tired all the time, but I also have Epstein Barr so it’s really hard ::to tell what’s going on.  I just had a TSH test and it was within normal ::range.  I thought it would be out of range since my Thyroid is basically OK ::except for the Goiter.  I’m tired, cold, depressed and have memory problems ::normal.  Then there is the PCO problem that can cause all these problems too Dear Cathy, It can be so hard to figure out what disorder is causing what symptom. Do me a favor, take your temp and pulse a few times and let me know what you get. Also, Google ’subclinical hypothyroidism’. Not saying you have this, but it is something you should read up on. Feel better soon! Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~

Hi Jackie, My temp has been between 96.? and 98.4, I took it a few times over the past 2 weeks, I am normally 98.6.  I will keep a journal over today and tomorrow and see what it is running and let you know.  I remember my doc saying once that my pulse was faster then normal (90ish) but lately (since stopping BP meds and starting Levoxyl)  it has been lower. I went to see my doc today (hubby had a routine appointment so I tagged along).  I felt stupid by complaining of the same thing AGAIN but this time she took me much more seriously and recommended I see an Endocrinologist.  I told her that since starting the Levoxyl these symptoms have increased.  I made an appointment for September 6th. Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::My temp has been between 96.? and 98.4, I took it a few times over the past ::2 weeks, I am normally 98.6. The 96 is on the low side. I`m really glad your doctor didn`t dismiss your symptoms. The best doctor to be checked out by is an endo. Good luck and let us know how the appt goes. Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

:: I really ::don’t get hot flashes during the day because I’m cold all the time since I ::went on Levoxyl to treat a Goiter. Hmmm……if anything, you would feel warmer on levoxyl. Cathy, ask your doctor to test your thyroid. Feeling cold is a common symptom of an underactive thyroid. A thyroid that is not up to par can also cause depression. Have you been really tired lately? Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~

Hi Jackie, I’m so tired all the time, but I also have Epstein Barr so it’s really hard to tell what’s going on.  I just had a TSH test and it was within normal range.  I thought it would be out of range since my Thyroid is basically OK except for the Goiter.  I’m tired, cold, depressed and have memory problems normal.  Then there is the PCO problem that can cause all these problems too Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::I’m so tired all the time, but I also have Epstein Barr so it’s really hard ::to tell what’s going on.  I just had a TSH test and it was within normal ::range.  I thought it would be out of range since my Thyroid is basically OK ::except for the Goiter.  I’m tired, cold, depressed and have memory problems ::normal.  Then there is the PCO problem that can cause all these problems too Dear Cathy, It can be so hard to figure out what disorder is causing what symptom. Do me a favor, take your temp and pulse a few times and let me know what you get. Also, Google ’subclinical hypothyroidism’. Not saying you have this, but it is something you should read up on. Feel better soon! Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Anne, This month is really bad and I can’t help but wonder if it will keep getting worse.  Yesterday I actually thought I was loosing my mind.  I thought I was going to go crazy.  I really think the Progesterone is the cause of these anything else. Love Cathy

Cathy, I’m sorry you are suffering so!  Everyone’s experience w/ "the change" is different. I don’t know whether it’s the Lexapro or what, but my symptoms were comparatively mild, and now I seem to be actually in menopause (yay) as opposed to peri-.  I have to say it’s a big relief. Most men have *no idea* how profoundly women are affected – physically and emotionally – from puberty on by the monthly fluctuations of hormones. Hope you can get some help for these symptoms. xxoo Anne

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

LOL Love Cathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOL!  Cathy, I meant RitE Aid brand not RitA Aid brand…where’s my mind sometimes!!! smiles, Elise I think I’ll try that Rita, thank you Love Cathy Hi, Cathy, I haven’t had to deal with this for years but I used to take Midol (Rita Aid brand, whatever) for a day or so.  I felt it gave me relief from PMS symptoms and I think when I ridded myself of those symptoms I felt better adjusted. smiles, Elise This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight.  How do you one day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days.  I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad.  I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month.  I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Wow my daughter was taking Topamax for Migraines. Thank you for all the info Gigglz Love Cathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Cathy, I’ve had it for YEARS. That’s what Gluphophage did to me, too!  Bad shit!  (pardon the pun) LOL!  Glad you found a good Endo  I’m taking an anti-seizure medication (but I don’t have epilepsy) that has a side effect of helping with insulin resistance!  I’ve now lost 12 pounds  It also is helping with my nerve pain…which was the main reason I started taking it.  It is called Topamax.  Another nice thing is that it has helped quite a bit with my anxiety as well.  Go figure. Keep me posted, Cathy.  I hope he takes your insurance! Love, Giggz Hi Gigglz, I didn’t know you had PCOS too.  I discovered it myself apx 1998 and then found a Gyn who knew how to treat it.  I took Glucophage for years but the Diarrhea was just too much for me, I couldn’t seem to adjust to the med. I just found a good Endocrinologist and want to see if he takes my Insurance. Thank you for all your info Love Cathy ((((((((((Cathy))))))))))) I’ve had PCOS for years.  An Endocrinologist diagnosed it.  PolyCystic Ovarian Syndrome causes us many more problems than the typical female! But you knew that already, right?  :-(  Many Endocrinologists will treat PCOS with a diabetic medication; either Glucophage or Actos.  It helps keep your weight balanced, as PCOS sufferers have Insulin Resistance, causing weight gain.  BUT, we are NOT diabetic.  Please feel free to email me about this, OK?  As far as the depression goes, it really helps to just BE on an anti-depressant as well.  I don’t know what or if you take any meds currently.  I myself am IN menopause now, and I can tell you from experience…it only gets worse!  (gee, aren’t I just little Sarah Sunshine?)  Bottom line is, check with your doctor.  It sounds like the Progesterone isn’t working for you any more, and you need to do something else at this point!!  I’m so sorry for what you are going through.  I know how awful it is.  Please email me any time, sweetie! Love, Gigglz This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight.  How do you one day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days.  I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad.  I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month.  I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Panic/Anxiety support group http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html If someone listens, or stretches out a  hand, or whispers a kind word of encouragement, or attempts to understand a lonely person, extraordinary things begin to happen. ~Loretta Girzatlis~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::I feel a little better today Good ::You mean you can take them only certain days?  I thought you had to take ::them every day.  Thank you for all this info Jackie. Yes, you would only take it during the PMS period. To be honest, I don`t know anyone that has tried this. Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

:: I really ::don’t get hot flashes during the day because I’m cold all the time since I ::went on Levoxyl to treat a Goiter. Hmmm……if anything, you would feel warmer on levoxyl. Cathy, ask your doctor to test your thyroid. Feeling cold is a common symptom of an underactive thyroid. A thyroid that is not up to par can also cause depression. Have you been really tired lately? Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Cathy, I’m sorry you are suffering so!  Everyone’s experience w/ "the change" is different. I don’t know whether it’s the Lexapro or what, but my symptoms were comparatively mild, and now I seem to be actually in menopause (yay) as opposed to peri-.  I have to say it’s a big relief. Most men have *no idea* how profoundly women are affected – physically and emotionally – from puberty on by the monthly fluctuations of hormones.   Hope you can get some help for these symptoms. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

LOL!  Cathy, I meant RitE Aid brand not RitA Aid brand…where’s my mind sometimes!!! smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I’ll try that Rita, thank you Love Cathy Hi, Cathy, I haven’t had to deal with this for years but I used to take Midol (Rita Aid brand, whatever) for a day or so.  I felt it gave me relief from PMS symptoms and I think when I ridded myself of those symptoms I felt better adjusted. smiles, Elise This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight.  How do you one day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days.  I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad.  I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month.  I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Gigglz, I didn’t know you had PCOS too.  I discovered it myself apx 1998 and then found a Gyn who knew how to treat it.  I took Glucophage for years but the Diarrhea was just too much for me, I couldn’t seem to adjust to the med.  I just found a good Endocrinologist and want to see if he takes my Insurance. Thank you for all your info Love Cathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ((((((((((Cathy))))))))))) I’ve had PCOS for years.  An Endocrinologist diagnosed it.  PolyCystic Ovarian Syndrome causes us many more problems than the typical female! But you knew that already, right?  :-(  Many Endocrinologists will treat PCOS with a diabetic medication; either Glucophage or Actos.  It helps keep your weight balanced, as PCOS sufferers have Insulin Resistance, causing weight gain.  BUT, we are NOT diabetic.  Please feel free to email me about this, OK?  As far as the depression goes, it really helps to just BE on an anti-depressant as well.  I don’t know what or if you take any meds currently.  I myself am IN menopause now, and I can tell you from experience…it only gets worse!  (gee, aren’t I just little Sarah Sunshine?)  Bottom line is, check with your doctor.  It sounds like the Progesterone isn’t working for you any more, and you need to do something else at this point!!  I’m so sorry for what you are going through.  I know how awful it is.  Please email me any time, sweetie! Love, Gigglz This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight.  How do you day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days.  I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad.  I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month.  I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Panic/Anxiety support group http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html If someone listens, or stretches out a  hand, or whispers a kind word of encouragement, or attempts to understand a lonely person, extraordinary things begin to happen. ~Loretta Girzatlis~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight.  How do you day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days.  I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad.  I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month.  I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy I didn’t deal with it well at all, so I can only tell you what not to do.  But I have no idea if any of these things fall into the YMMV category. I drank too much coffee.  I self-medicated with any mood-altering thing I could find. What happened?  I cried all the time.  I pestered my gynecologist about alternative treatments until he told me, all exasperated, "Well, if that’s what they’re doing in England, GO TO ENGLAND!"  (I changed gynecologists at that point.) I wish I were kidding.  I’m not.  I was a basket case.  Now, here’s what I would recommend:  talk to doctors, listen to their advice, and follow it.  Can’t hurt.  If doc #1 doesn’t help, proceed to doc #2. Best of luck to you, Cathy! Love Deirdre

Hi Deidre, I know I drink too much coffee and I need to really limit it again.  My Gyn is an asshole and doesn’t listen but I haven’t brought this up to him yet. I’ve complained about the night sweats for a year before he said, "If it gets too bad we’ll deal with it later"  ……. sigh.  He is a jerk and last week I had to wait an hour for my appointment, by the time I got in the exam finally came in the exam room I wasn’t there and he had a fit throwing my chart on the counter and complaining. I know I need to find a new Gyn but he is very knowledgeable when it comes to my specific hormonal disorder …… that’s why I’ve stayed so long. Then there is the insurance crap and finding someone who takes it. Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ::This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight.  How do you one ::day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 ::days.  I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s ::pretty bad.  I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ::ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month.  I’m also ::Perimenopausal. Dear Cathy, I`m sorry your hormones are being such a beast! Hopefully this is just an isolated ‘bad’ month. However, if it continues, talk to your doctor. You shouldn`t have to suffer like this every month. I read where you aren`t on any antidepressants and seem leery to take them? You may want to discuss with your doctor about using an SSRI during PMS time. ~*~These drugs may be taken orally every day, throughout the menstrual cycle, or just taken when premenstrual syndrome (PMS) symptoms are present in the 2 weeks before a woman’s period. How It Works These drugs, called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), improve mood by affecting the levels of a chemical messenger in the brain (neurotransmitter) called serotonin. Why It Is Used SSRIs may be used when: Depression, mood changes, and other behavioral or emotional disturbances are major symptoms of PMS. Depression becomes worse during the premenstrual phase. How Well It Works Studies have shown that the SSRIs make depression, irritability, and other behavioral and mood-related symptoms of PMS less severe. For some women, these drugs may also improve physical symptoms such as fatigue, appetite, bloating, breast pain, or insomnia. Controlled studies have shown SSRIs are effective in relieving PMS symptoms. It may be that taking SSRIs in the 2 weeks before menstrual bleeding is more effective than taking them every day. Further studies are being done.~*~ http://concernedcounseling.com/Communities/depression/treatment/antid… Some alternative treatments for PMS. Please check with your doctor first before taking any supplements. ~*~Herbs, Vitamins and Supplements for PMS What are the Treatment Options? There is no agreed upon approach for managing PMS. Conventional medical doctors may recommend the birth control pill, painkillers, diuretics or other drugs. Women often find relief using natural supplements, however, some studies have not clearly confirmed their efficacy. A trained practitioner can recommend the treatment most appropriate for a woman’s unique symptoms. Vitamin B6 This vitamin assists in the production of progesterone to counterbalance estrogen. It also promotes the synthesis of neurotransmitters in the brain such as serotonin and dopamine. Decreased levels of these neurotransmitters have been suggested in the etiology of PMS. Although vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin, it can be toxic in large doses or with moderate doses over an extended period of time. Sponsored Links Intake should not exceed 200 mg/day and should be divided into 50 mg doses spread throughout the day. Signs of toxicity include tingling, numbness, and decreased sensation in the hands or feet. Evening Primrose Oil Evening Primrose oil (EPO) is often recommended for headache, cramping, bloating, breast pain, depression, and irritability. EPO contains gamma-linolenic acid, which is involved in the metabolism of hormone-like substances called prostaglandins that regulate pain and inflammation in the body. EPO is available in capsule or oil form and should always be refrigerated. Borage oil or black currant oil have similar effects and may be substituted. If used long-term, twice as much flax seed oil should be used to maintain the optimal balance of oils. Stomach discomfort and loose stools may occur if the initial dose is too high. EPO can interact with certain drugs for schizophrenia. Magnesium The mineral magnesium appears to benefit women with cramps, mood swings, depression, fatigue, breast tenderness, and water retention. Magnesium may work by promoting dopamine production and indirectly inhibiting activity of the hormone prolactin. It is involved in prostaglandin metabolism and vitamin B6 activity. Research studies show that although women with PMS do not differ in their serum levels of magnesium, levels of magnesium inside red blood cells are significantly lower in women with PMS. Vitamin B6 is required for Mg to enter cells. Magnesium deficiency may be associated with cravings for chocolate. People with heart or kidney disease must consult a health practitioner before taking magnesium supplements. Too much magnesium can cause diarrhea and serious health problems. Calcium The mineral calcium may be beneficial for women with premenstrual cramps and moodiness. In one 3 month research study comparing calcium supplements to a placebo, women taking calcium supplements experienced fewer premenstrual symptoms in the second and third months of usage. Ratings of mood, water retention, food cravings, and pain were significantly decreased. Calcium citrate is the most easily absorbed form of supplement. If calcium citrate is not available, calcium carbonate can be used. Chaste Tree (Vitex Agnus-Castus) Chaste tree, one of the most popular herbs for premenstrual syndrome, is recommended for breast pain and tenderness, infrequent menstrual periods and ovarian cysts. This herb affects the pituitary gland by increased the production of luteinizing hormone (LH) and shifting the ratio of estrogen to progesterone in favor of progesterone. Chaste tree also lowers the secretion of the hormone prolactin possibly by binding with dopamine receptors and decreasing the output of prolactin-releasing hormone. Acupuncture In traditional Asian medicine, the liver is the organ that is most affected by stress, anger, and frustration. Stagnation of liver energy and blood by emotions, alcohol, and spicy and fatty foods can lead to breast tenderness and abdominal bloating and cramping. Acupuncture, exercise, expressing emotions, and breathing exercises can help to relieve stagnation. Dietary Suggestions Women with premenstrual syndrome may benefit from making the following dietary changes: 1. Reduce sugar and salt intake. This is especially useful for bloating and swelling of the hands and feet, breast tenderness, and dizziness. Increase foods rich in potassium, such as fish, beans, and broccoli. 2. Eat small, frequent meals to help stabilize blood sugar. 3. Eliminate caffeine, which can aggravate anxiety, depression, and breast tenderness. 4. Increase intake of fruits, vegetables, beans, nuts, seeds, and fish. 5. Avoid alcohol. 6. Decrease intake of fatty foods and red meat. http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/womenshealth/a/PMS_2.htm A book you may want to check out is Valerie Raskin`s ‘When Words Aren`t Enough" <The Women`s Prescription for Anxiety and Depression. Hoping the PMS monster goes away soon. (((((Cathy))))) Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~

I feel a little better today. You mean you can take them only certain days?  I thought you had to take them every day.  Thank you for all this info Jackie. Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I think I’ll try that Rita, thank you Love Cathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Cathy, I haven’t had to deal with this for years but I used to take Midol (Rita Aid brand, whatever) for a day or so.  I felt it gave me relief from PMS symptoms and I think when I ridded myself of those symptoms I felt better adjusted. smiles, Elise This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight.  How do you day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days.  I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad.  I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month.  I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Cathy: Are you taking an antidepressant? A woman doctor I saw a few years ago, substituting for my regular doctor, advised me to take an SSRI (she suggested Lexapro, which is what I’m now taking) to counteract perimenopausal mood changes.  You might discuss this with your gyn. or your pdoc. Hope you feel better. The change of life is no picnic! xxoo Anne It can be no picnic for anyone else in the area either. Those hot flashes are the pits. My wife gets them and then she is very hot and I am freezing. This has been going on now for a couple of years and show no sign of getting any better. Every change in medication used to give me periods of "prickly heat" so I have some idea of what hot flashes feel like. Prickly heat feels like being very over heated and being poked by pins all over the body at the same time. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow.

I get the night sweats and wake up all wet ……. it’s terrible.  I have a good 4 years to go before my doc will consider me Menopausal.  I really don’t get hot flashes during the day because I’m cold all the time since I went on Levoxyl to treat a Goiter. Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Anne, No I’m not any Ad, my doc is very concerned with weight gain.  I’ve tried a few over the years and seem to have a very difficult time with them for one reason or another.  I guess I’m just looking for non med ways to deal with this since it isn’t all the time. Love Cathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Cathy: Are you taking an antidepressant? A woman doctor I saw a few years ago, substituting for my regular doctor, advised me to take an SSRI (she suggested Lexapro, which is what I’m now taking) to counteract perimenopausal mood changes.  You might discuss this with your gyn. or your pdoc. Hope you feel better. The change of life is no picnic! xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight.  How do you ::day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 ::days.  I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s ::pretty bad.  I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ::ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month.  I’m also ::Perimenopausal. Dear Cathy, I`m sorry your hormones are being such a beast! Hopefully this is just an isolated ‘bad’ month. However, if it continues, talk to your doctor. You shouldn`t have to suffer like this every month. I read where you aren`t on any antidepressants and seem leery to take them? You may want to discuss with your doctor about using an SSRI during PMS time. ~*~These drugs may be taken orally every day, throughout the menstrual cycle, or  just taken when premenstrual syndrome (PMS) symptoms are present in the 2 weeks before a woman’s period. How It Works These drugs, called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), improve mood by affecting the levels of a chemical messenger in the brain (neurotransmitter) called serotonin. Why It Is Used SSRIs may be used when: Depression, mood changes, and other behavioral or emotional disturbances are major symptoms of PMS. Depression becomes worse during the premenstrual phase. How Well It Works Studies have shown that the SSRIs make depression, irritability, and other behavioral and mood-related symptoms of PMS less severe. For some women, these drugs may also improve physical symptoms such as fatigue, appetite, bloating, breast pain, or insomnia. Controlled studies have shown SSRIs are effective in relieving PMS symptoms. It may be that taking SSRIs in the 2 weeks before menstrual bleeding is more effective than taking them every day. Further studies are being done.~*~ http://concernedcounseling.com/Communities/depression/treatment/antid… Some alternative treatments for PMS. Please check with your doctor first before taking any supplements. ~*~Herbs, Vitamins and Supplements for PMS What are the Treatment Options? There is no agreed upon approach for managing PMS. Conventional medical doctors may recommend the birth control pill, painkillers, diuretics or other drugs. Women often find relief using natural supplements, however, some studies have not clearly confirmed their efficacy. A trained practitioner can recommend the treatment most appropriate for a woman’s unique symptoms. Vitamin B6 This vitamin assists in the production of progesterone to counterbalance estrogen. It also promotes the synthesis of neurotransmitters in the brain such as serotonin and dopamine. Decreased levels of these neurotransmitters have been suggested in the etiology of PMS. Although vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin, it can be toxic in large doses or with moderate doses over an extended period of time. Sponsored Links Intake should not exceed 200 mg/day and should be divided into 50 mg doses spread throughout the day. Signs of toxicity include tingling, numbness, and decreased sensation in the hands or feet. Evening Primrose Oil Evening Primrose oil (EPO) is often recommended for headache, cramping, bloating, breast pain, depression, and irritability. EPO contains gamma-linolenic acid, which is involved in the metabolism of hormone-like substances called prostaglandins that regulate pain and inflammation in the body. EPO is available in capsule or oil form and should always be refrigerated. Borage oil or black currant oil have similar effects and may be substituted. If used long-term, twice as much flax seed oil should be used to maintain the optimal balance of oils. Stomach discomfort and loose stools may occur if the initial dose is too high. EPO can interact with certain drugs for schizophrenia. Magnesium The mineral magnesium appears to benefit women with cramps, mood swings, depression, fatigue, breast tenderness, and water retention. Magnesium may work by promoting dopamine production and indirectly inhibiting activity of the hormone prolactin. It is involved in prostaglandin metabolism and vitamin B6 activity. Research studies show that although women with PMS do not differ in their serum levels of magnesium, levels of magnesium inside red blood cells are significantly lower in women with PMS. Vitamin B6 is required for Mg to enter cells. Magnesium deficiency may be associated with cravings for chocolate. People with heart or kidney disease must consult a health practitioner before taking magnesium supplements. Too much magnesium can cause diarrhea and serious health problems. Calcium The mineral calcium may be beneficial for women with premenstrual cramps and moodiness. In one 3 month research study comparing calcium supplements to a placebo, women taking calcium supplements experienced fewer premenstrual symptoms in the second and third months of usage. Ratings of mood, water retention, food cravings, and pain were significantly decreased. Calcium citrate is the most easily absorbed form of supplement. If calcium citrate is not available, calcium carbonate can be used. Chaste Tree (Vitex Agnus-Castus) Chaste tree, one of the most popular herbs for premenstrual syndrome, is recommended for breast pain and tenderness, infrequent menstrual periods and ovarian cysts. This herb affects the pituitary gland by increased the production of luteinizing hormone (LH) and shifting the ratio of estrogen to progesterone in favor of progesterone. Chaste tree also lowers the secretion of the hormone prolactin possibly by binding with dopamine receptors and decreasing the output of prolactin-releasing hormone. Acupuncture In traditional Asian medicine, the liver is the organ that is most affected by stress, anger, and frustration. Stagnation of liver energy and blood by emotions, alcohol, and spicy and fatty foods can lead to breast tenderness and abdominal bloating and cramping. Acupuncture, exercise, expressing emotions, and breathing exercises can help to relieve stagnation. Dietary Suggestions Women with premenstrual syndrome may benefit from making the following dietary changes: 1. Reduce sugar and salt intake. This is especially useful for bloating and swelling of the hands and feet, breast tenderness, and dizziness. Increase foods rich in potassium, such as fish, beans, and broccoli. 2. Eat small, frequent meals to help stabilize blood sugar. 3. Eliminate caffeine, which can aggravate anxiety, depression, and breast tenderness. 4. Increase intake of fruits, vegetables, beans, nuts, seeds, and fish. 5. Avoid alcohol. 6. Decrease intake of fatty foods and red meat. http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/womenshealth/a/PMS_2.htm A book you may want to check out is Valerie Raskin`s ‘When Words Aren`t Enough" <The Women`s Prescription for Anxiety and Depression. Hoping the PMS monster goes away soon. (((((Cathy))))) Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Cathy: Are you taking an antidepressant? A woman doctor I saw a few years ago, substituting for my regular doctor, advised me to take an SSRI (she suggested Lexapro, which is what I’m now taking) to counteract perimenopausal mood changes.  You might discuss this with your gyn. or your pdoc. Hope you feel better. The change of life is no picnic! xxoo Anne

It can be no picnic for anyone else in the area either. Those hot flashes are the pits. My wife gets them and then she is very hot and I am freezing. This has been going on now for a couple of years and show no sign of getting any better. Every change in medication used to give me periods of "prickly heat" so I have some idea of what hot flashes feel like. Prickly heat feels like being very over heated and being poked by pins all over the body at the same time. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight.  How do you day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days.  I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad.  I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month.  I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Panic/Anxiety support group http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html If someone listens, or stretches out a  hand, or whispers a kind word of encouragement, or attempts to understand a lonely person, extraordinary things begin to happen. ~Loretta Girzatlis~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Cathy: Are you taking an antidepressant? A woman doctor I saw a few years ago, substituting for my regular doctor, advised me to take an SSRI (she suggested Lexapro, which is what I’m now taking) to counteract perimenopausal mood changes.  You might discuss this with your gyn. or your pdoc. Hope you feel better. The change of life is no picnic! xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight.  How do you day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days.  I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad.  I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month.  I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy

I didn’t deal with it well at all, so I can only tell you what not to do.  But I have no idea if any of these things fall into the YMMV category. I drank too much coffee.  I self-medicated with any mood-altering thing I could find. What happened?  I cried all the time.  I pestered my gynecologist about alternative treatments until he told me, all exasperated, "Well, if that’s what they’re doing in England, GO TO ENGLAND!"  (I changed gynecologists at that point.) I wish I were kidding.  I’m not.  I was a basket case.  Now, here’s what I would recommend:  talk to doctors, listen to their advice, and follow it.  Can’t hurt.  If doc #1 doesn’t help, proceed to doc #2. Best of luck to you, Cathy! Love Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Cathy, I haven’t had to deal with this for years but I used to take Midol (Rita Aid brand, whatever) for a day or so.  I felt it gave me relief from PMS symptoms and I think when I ridded myself of those symptoms I felt better adjusted. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight.  How do you day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days.  I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad.  I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month.  I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Panic/Anxiety support group http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html If someone listens, or stretches out a  hand, or whispers a kind word of encouragement, or attempts to understand a lonely person, extraordinary things begin to happen. ~Loretta Girzatlis~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

First of all: Congratulations!!!! Pregnancy is SO exciting! I will be pulling for you! Here’s my laywoman’s 2 cents worth: I was overweight for both of my pregnancies. My OB-GYN was very firm that pregnancy is NOT a time for weight loss. Though sometimes you can’t help losing a few pounds in the first trimester due to morning sickness! Your body needs sufficient calories and nutrition to make major changes to your body during pregnancy, and to feeding the growing baby. Dieting (to lose weight) during pregnancy can result in an undernourished baby. Or an undernourished mom – your body will cannibalize your bones and your lean body mass to support the pregnancy. Also, toxins are stored in body fat; when you metabolize body fat, those toxins are released into the bloodstream. I don’t know that there’s any proof that these toxins harm fetuses, but I am of the "better safe than sorry" school when it comes to eliminating risks to unborn babies! Personally, I would not try to lose weight and I would stay out of ketosis during pregnancy. My OB-GYN told me that overweight women should gain about 15-20 pounds during pregancy. In the first trimester, there should be little or no gain; most of the weight gain should occur in the second and third trimesters. Gaining 15-20 pounds sounds like a lot, especially when you’ve been working hard to lose weight. But realize that the baby and all the changes in your body caused by a healthy pregnancy (increased size of uterus, amniotic fluid, placenta, increased breast tissue, increased fluid retention throughout the body, increased blood volume, etc.) weigh about 20 pounds! So, if you gain 15-20 pounds during pregnancy, you will end up at or slightly below your prepregnancy weight within a week or two of giving birth. He (my doctor) also told me that I should gain that weight by eating nutritious, real (unprocessed) foods. He said that my most important goal should be to get the best nutrition possible for me and my baby. He and the nurse were always asking if I was eating my veggies and drinking my water! If you really want to try to lose weight during pregnancy, PLEASE do so only under the strict supervision of a doctor who’s knowledgable about nutrition and weight loss during pregnancy, to make sure both of you stay healthy. My OB-GYN recommended the Zone diet. The Zone kept my blood sugar levels under control and resulted in the slow weight gain my doctor wanted during both pregnancies. I gained 18 pounds during the first pregnancy and 21 during the second. In both cases, within a couple of weeks of giving birth, I was slightly below my prepregnancy weight. (Unfortunately, I started eating out of control after each birth and resumed gaining weight again.  Sigh! And when I went back to the Zone after my pregnancies, I learned that the Zone is more or less a maintenance diet for me; I lose very little weight on the Zone. That’s why I’m on Atkins now.) Also, Dr. Atkins says that the Maintenance level of his diet is safe during pregnancy. You could do the Maintenance level of Atkins for the first trimester, then add some extra carbs from nutritious fruits or maybe small portions of milk or whole grains if necessary to achieve slow weight gain in the second and third trimester. I’d aim for at least 6-7 servings of veggies and fruits a day. Also, you need more protein, iron, and calcium during pregnancy, so be sure you’re getting enough. Good luck! Laura

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carol-Ann, It looks very promising atm(go to dr tomorrow hopefully) but it looks like im pg….could I be taken off the dec challenge?? Or should I ?? I dunno..lol…Any special thoughts on seriously modifying Atkins for pregnancy?? Any help would be appreciated! TIA Shaz in Melb. Australia 216.7/211.2/176 then re-evaluate 6′4(164cm) 98.5/96/80kg then re-evaluate Atkins since 18th Nov ‘02(this time round)

Response:

Congrats! I found out I was pg 2 weeks ago. I plan to continue my low carb WOE, however I will up my carbs closer to maintenance levels. I was borderline gestational diabetic with my last pg, but ended up hypoglycemic on the GD diet- too many carbs for me. I would expect my blood sugars to be worse this time since I’m much older. I haven’t had morning sickness yet, but I hope I can get through that phase without too much carb ingestion. There  is a yahoo group for pregnant, TTC, and nursing women- PregnantAtkids. It sounds like most of the pg women are eating way more carbs than I’d dare, but there are some success stories of people who did low carb during pg, remained in ketosis, gained the appropriate weight and had healthy babies. As someone else said, it’s not a time to lose weight so make sure you get enough calories, however you may still find you spill ketones. Tiger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carol-Ann, It looks very promising atm(go to dr tomorrow hopefully) but it looks like im pg….could I be taken off the dec challenge?? Or should I ?? I dunno..lol…Any special thoughts on seriously modifying Atkins for pregnancy?? Any help would be appreciated! TIA Shaz in Melb. Australia 216.7/211.2/176 then re-evaluate 6′4(164cm) 98.5/96/80kg then re-evaluate Atkins since 18th Nov ‘02(this time round)

Response:

Congratulations, Tiger (is congratulating proper etiquette?)!  Keep us posted!!! Me?  I’m hoping to find someone I trust enough to father my child….and be a great partner at the same time.  Wow, it’s a tough task!!!! ~Carol Ann www.lowcarblosers.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congrats! I found out I was pg 2 weeks ago. I plan to continue my low carb WOE, however I will up my carbs closer to maintenance levels. I was borderline gestational diabetic with my last pg, but ended up hypoglycemic on the GD diet- too many carbs for me. I would expect my blood sugars to be worse this time since I’m much older. I haven’t had morning sickness yet, but I hope I can get through that phase without too much carb ingestion. There  is a yahoo group for pregnant, TTC, and nursing women- PregnantAtkids. It sounds like most of the pg women are eating way more carbs than I’d dare, but there are some success stories of people who did low carb during pg, remained in ketosis, gained the appropriate weight and had healthy babies. As someone else said, it’s not a time to lose weight so make sure you get enough calories, however you may still find you spill ketones. Tiger Carol-Ann, It looks very promising atm(go to dr tomorrow hopefully) but it looks like im pg….could I be taken off the dec challenge?? Or should I ?? I dunno..lol…Any special thoughts on seriously modifying Atkins for pregnancy?? Any help would be appreciated! TIA Shaz in Melb. Australia 216.7/211.2/176 then re-evaluate 6′4(164cm) 98.5/96/80kg then re-evaluate Atkins since 18th Nov ‘02(this time round)

Response:

Carol-Ann, It looks very promising atm(go to dr tomorrow hopefully) but it looks like im pg….could I be taken off the dec challenge?? Or should I ?? I dunno..lol…Any special thoughts on seriously modifying Atkins for pregnancy?? Any help would be appreciated! TIA Shaz in Melb. Australia 216.7/211.2/176 then re-evaluate 6′4(164cm) 98.5/96/80kg then re-evaluate Atkins since 18th Nov ‘02(this time round)

Response:

I tried to modify Atkins for my pregnancy and do more of a generic low-carb WOE, (no sugars, no starches) but it didn’t work. While I didn’t have morning sickness, I didn’t have an appetite for protein of any kind. So I just ate what I could, and will try to work my way back to some more sensible eating after the baby comes next month. A word of caution though, if your hubby/BF/SO is usually on plan with you… Mine takes his WOE cues from me. So when I went off plan, so did he. Now he is looking forward to restarting. January 1st we start to clean up our WOE, and Feb 1st (or whenever I get home after the baby) we re-start. HTH! Michelle Atkins since 11/11/99 PG  –  due Jan 29th, 2003

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carol-Ann, It looks very promising atm(go to dr tomorrow hopefully) but it looks like im pg….could I be taken off the dec challenge?? Or should I ?? I dunno..lol…Any special thoughts on seriously modifying Atkins for pregnancy?? Any help would be appreciated! TIA Shaz in Melb. Australia 216.7/211.2/176 then re-evaluate 6′4(164cm) 98.5/96/80kg then re-evaluate Atkins since 18th Nov ‘02(this time round)

Response:

talk to your OB-GYNE about it. congrats! — read and post daily, it works! rosie "It’s not the package and the wrapping which counts but what is inside, underneath the clothes and the skin." –Lame Deer, LAKOTA http://www.unitedforpeace.org/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carol-Ann, It looks very promising atm(go to dr tomorrow hopefully) but it looks like im pg….could I be taken off the dec challenge?? Or should I ?? I dunno..lol…Any special thoughts on seriously modifying Atkins for pregnancy?? Any help would be appreciated! TIA Shaz in Melb. Australia 216.7/211.2/176 then re-evaluate 6′4(164cm) 98.5/96/80kg then re-evaluate Atkins since 18th Nov ‘02(this time round)

Response:

Do let us know if you are pregnant!!  Wowee!!  No reason to pull out of the December Challenge since it is almost over! I believe I read somewhere that a pregnant woman (with her doctor’s supervision) went on a low carb plan (not sure which one) and still lost 20lbs during her pregnancy.  She was walking and doing light exercising along with cutting out as much of her ‘bad carbs’ as she could.  It seems to have worked for her.  I’m not sure. No matter what, I do hope your test turns out the way that you want it!!! ~Carol Ann www.lowcarblosers.com May 2003 bring to you much peace, joy, good health and prosperity!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carol-Ann, It looks very promising atm(go to dr tomorrow hopefully) but it looks like im pg….could I be taken off the dec challenge?? Or should I ?? I dunno..lol…Any special thoughts on seriously modifying Atkins for pregnancy?? Any help would be appreciated! TIA Shaz in Melb. Australia 216.7/211.2/176 then re-evaluate 6′4(164cm) 98.5/96/80kg then re-evaluate Atkins since 18th Nov ‘02(this time round)

Response:

Question:

It’s anti doctor rant time here… Immoral!!! What??? How is it immoral? Putting your hormone level back to normal is some how going to cause you to morph into this muscle bound rapist? I don’t think so. I guess it’s immoral to restore a diabetic’s glucose level to normal or prescribe glasses for a guy who is starting to get farsighted. Bullshit! Yes, if your T level was normal without TRT it would be unwise to agument it just so you can win the Mr. Universe competition. But, hell, that’s not what you are asking for. All you want is to be your old self again. Not to be 18 forever or to be superman, just to be your normal self. I guess he considers folks who go to weight watchers immoral too. Sheesh! IMHO, fire your doctor and let him know he’s fired. Oh, I know exactly what you mean by thyroid storm. I experienced it for about 6 months after my surgery and my doc basically did nothing, nothing. end of rant, Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe D. and MikeTX, Thanks for the replies.  I suspect that the endocrinologist is worried that if I did begin to look like a fit male again, he would be accused of abusing his prescription privileges.  After all, helping a guy look younger and feel better is immoral right? Both the endo and the primary care doc have said that they WILL NOT allow me to go into the upper half of the normal range for testosterone because it "would be immoral."  I’ve been a patient patient and haven’t raised a fuss about that.  I just want to loose the 100 lbs I gained while a former primary doc allowed me to go through thyroid storm and reach profound hypothyroidism before beginning treatment.  All hormones are currently in the middle or lower half of the ranges.  Now I want to regain the health I used to have and it seems like he’s reversed his earlier health advise (using thyroid hormone ranges versus TSH) and wants to pull back on the testosterone for some moral reasoning.  He has said on several occasions that he is a "nihilist." believing in doing the least to interrupt the natural course of the bodily physiology.  I suppose that means that he’s got a healthy respect for the body’s ability to self regulate things, but I can’t help but begin to suspect now that he is trying to prevent this 40 yr old from regaining the hard body I had up till my mid thirties. I don’t even think he knows that he’s doing this, Have others out there ran into docs feeling that hormone replacement It’s true a normal man produces more T if he works out, esp lower-body weight lifting. However this is irrelevant to someone on TRT. In that case your body isn’t producing hardly any T  – exercise probably has relatively little effect on serum T level.

Response:

See "The Demonization of Anabolic Steroids" for more on this http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/williams/demonization-of-anabol… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your rant brings up one for me…. Why do Dr’s consider using T for body building as wrong or immoral, when Dr’s perform and market cosmetic surgery. Without a doubt more people have died an been disfigured and suffered life long consequences from cosmetic surgery than steroid abuse, let alone Dr supervised  T supplementation. I suppose the reasons lots of people (not only doctors) have problems with steroids used for body building (BB) as opposed to cosmetic surgery (CS) could be: – with BB there is considerable doubt that the steroids actually work (ref: study reported in NEJOM about a year ago); for CS you can actually see a result that is without doubt the result of surgery There is doubt only among people that dislike their use. There are numerous studies showing that the use of steroids has effects on physical performance. Even at slightly elevated levels. This of course ignores the decades of obvious evidence by merely observing steroid users in the gym, sports, and entertainment (wrestling). – some CS is actually done to remedy serious body problems (damaged jaws, missing breasts due to mastectomy etc.) whereas steroids for BB has no relation to a cure for disease, or the problems wrought by disease. As some steroids are used is to correct serious physical and mental problems. – people have an idea of what "the norm" is and it doesn’t extend to muscle bound teenagers; it does extend to (say) reducing your nose if it’s the size of Jimmy Durante’s or providing some breast level (say a B cup) for a completely flat-chested girl. Where does the norm not include muscle bound men, teenagers and otherwise. Define "muscle bound".   Where does the norm include 48 HHH breasts that Dr’s make for women? – despite all the hoo-hah about breast implants causing auto-immune disease and nose jobs gone awry I think most would see the surgery as more straightforward and safer than manipulating something that may have who-knows-what consequences years later. For old duffers such as ourselves it probably doesn’t matter if we inadvertently perform self-castration; it’s a lot different if some 19 year old does it. I wasnt even referring to BI auto imune disorders, since they are not proven. I was simply talking about routine complications from surgery, such as infections and reactions to operative and post operative medications, scarring and nerve damage done by the surgery. – steroid use for BB seems to most people to be cheating–aren’t races, weight lifting etc supposed to be you and not you plus a chemical? OTOH having a boob job isn’t really cheating because everyone can see it and besides the girl’s not in a race (maybe a wet T-shirt contest?). Even though she may be competing with other girls for the available males and big breasts may give her an advantage, I don’t think people like to see it that way. Perhaps it’s all’s fair in love and war. Would this not include the skinny guy who wants some balance to his body? Are you trying to say that undergoing breast augmentation, liposuction, collogen implants, and botox are better than supplemental steroids? Remember that I was talking about supervised hormone therapy, not some guy trying huge amounts of roids in the basement. – allegedly there are significant psychological problems associated with superphysilogical levels of T which are even reported on some of the body building sites. There don’t seem to be any psychological problems with most CS or at least they’re balanced (depression vs elation). If you are referring to properly done CS, then you should also consider properly done  hormone therapy. Dr controlled hormone therapy would have none of the side effects that people associate with steroid abuse. BB’s are known for using many times the level of steroids needed to reach supraphysilogical levels. They also use combinations of steroids. They have decades of hands on research and side effects because they cant  use scientific methods to test steroids levels, because it is illegal.  If this was monitored by a Dr, IMHO, the side effects and danger commonly associated with steroid abuse would not exist in those cases.   – I don’t have anything to back this up but I would guess that most problems caused by CS are relatively easy to rectify (e.g., remove the implants) but if there are problems caused by steroids for BB such as liver damage, the cure is much less obvious. CS problems can usually be solved by more surgeries, some do leave permanent disfigurement. Of course if you die on the table getting those nice breasts….. Many ailments from steroid abuse are can rectifed by of all things, CS, some are irreversible if caught too late.  The liver damage worry is a carry over from the old days of taking pills, injectables do not have near the risk of liver damage.  Many drugs have much more serious effects on the liver, look at some of the commonly prescribed cholestorol lowering drugs as an example. When monitored by a properly trained physician, steroids pose very little risk. It is the people who buy steroids and use and abuse them because they dont know what they are doing that put themselves at risk. That is no different than many other drugs, such as pain killers, diet pills and allergy pils. I’m sure there are others…

Response:

I wish I could have thought to say some of these responces to my endo’s "immoral" statement.  Sadly, it seems to be a common belief.  My PCP is an endocrinologist who found low testosterone after correcting thyroid levels didn’t relieve me of lethargy.  This endo refused to write for testosterone although three successive total testosterone levels came back near the bottom of the range (240’s and 250’s for a 38 year old male).  He told me that it was a blessing in disguise since castrated men lived longer!  I asked if he was willing to castrate himself to live longer – after three appointments asking for replacement, he sent me to another endocrinologist at a large medical research university. Both docs said that lacking records showing my testosterone levels to be higher at an earlier point in life, they believed that I may have always been low, and that prescribing testosterone would raise it above "what [my] body naturally wanted" and immoral.  They said that the reference range includes people "like you" who were probably always low. How do you defend your belief that you used to be normal and that a change has occurred? Who has a record of their hormone levels when they were still normal?  What doc would order them for normal healthy people and what insurance would pay for that? Never mind the fact that I’ve always been a muscular hairy guy until my thyroid odyssey began. I got the second endo to budge when I showed him print outs of weight lifting and body fat analysis records from gym computer records from my early thirties when I was a lean power lifter.   I then had to defend myself against his suspicions that I ruined my hypothalamic pituitary axis with steroids.  Finally, he wrote the ’script.   When my first testosterone results came back after replacement, I was only in the 350’s and he declared me a success since I was in the range.   I complained of still feeling crappy and he raised me to 10 grams androgel a day.  Last tested in the mid 400 range on one test and almost 600 on another (same blood sample that he sent to two different labs for comparison).  O.K., good enough I guess, I’m not trying to become Charles Atlas.  In fact, I have had NO time or energy to exercise.  On this visit, I mentioned that I was going to rejoin a gym to try and loose the weight.  This is when he panicked about keeping my testosterone levels from "getting too high."  

Response:

You’ve already changed doctors several times. I understand your reluctance to change again, spend more money and time and probly get someone just as bad. I kind of went through that. But you are right and they are dead wrong. You only want your old life back. While you don’t want your T level above the top of the normal range, there is nothing at all immoral about wanting it in the upper third. So what if it’s a bit higher than it originally was! If your problem was high cholestrol would it be a bad thing if your meds brought it down below where it was when you were in your 20’s? I’m guessing that my T levels are higher now than they were as a teen because for the first time ever I have chest hair. That wasn’t my goal or reason for starting TRT and it isn’t a good reason to stop or cut back. I don’t have acne and my hemocrit is still inside range. When you get your T level into the upper third and your estradiol into the lower third you will feel like exercising, you will loose that weight, and you will feel good again. Fire your doctor and start on a quest for one who understands. Mike

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your rant brings up one for me…. Why do Dr’s consider using T for body building as wrong or immoral, when Dr’s perform and market cosmetic surgery. Without a doubt more people have died an been disfigured and suffered life long consequences from cosmetic surgery than steroid abuse, let alone Dr supervised  T supplementation. I suppose the reasons lots of people (not only doctors) have problems with steroids used for body building (BB) as opposed to cosmetic surgery (CS) could be: – with BB there is considerable doubt that the steroids actually work (ref: study reported in NEJOM about a year ago); for CS you can actually see a result that is without doubt the result of surgery

There is doubt only among people that dislike their use. There are numerous studies showing that the use of steroids has effects on physical performance. Even at slightly elevated levels. This of course ignores the decades of obvious evidence by merely observing steroid users in the gym, sports, and entertainment (wrestling). – some CS is actually done to remedy serious body problems (damaged jaws, missing breasts due to mastectomy etc.) whereas steroids for BB has no relation to a cure for disease, or the problems wrought by disease.

As some steroids are used is to correct serious physical and mental problems. – people have an idea of what "the norm" is and it doesn’t extend to muscle bound teenagers; it does extend to (say) reducing your nose if it’s the size of Jimmy Durante’s or providing some breast level (say a B cup) for a completely flat-chested girl.

Where does the norm not include muscle bound men, teenagers and otherwise. Define "muscle bound".   Where does the norm include 48 HHH breasts that Dr’s make for women? – despite all the hoo-hah about breast implants causing auto-immune disease and nose jobs gone awry I think most would see the surgery as more straightforward and safer than manipulating something that may have who-knows-what consequences years later. For old duffers such as ourselves it probably doesn’t matter if we inadvertently perform self-castration; it’s a lot different if some 19 year old does it.

I wasnt even referring to BI auto imune disorders, since they are not proven. I was simply talking about routine complications from surgery, such as infections and reactions to operative and post operative medications, scarring and nerve damage done by the surgery. – steroid use for BB seems to most people to be cheating–aren’t races, weight lifting etc supposed to be you and not you plus a chemical? OTOH having a boob job isn’t really cheating because everyone can see it and besides the girl’s not in a race (maybe a wet T-shirt contest?). Even though she may be competing with other girls for the available males and big breasts may give her an advantage, I don’t think people like to see it that way. Perhaps it’s all’s fair in love and war.

Would this not include the skinny guy who wants some balance to his body? Are you trying to say that undergoing breast augmentation, liposuction, collogen implants, and botox are better than supplemental steroids? Remember that I was talking about supervised hormone therapy, not some guy trying huge amounts of roids in the basement. – allegedly there are significant psychological problems associated with superphysilogical levels of T which are even reported on some of the body building sites. There don’t seem to be any psychological problems with most CS or at least they’re balanced (depression vs elation).

If you are referring to properly done CS, then you should also consider properly done  hormone therapy. Dr controlled hormone therapy would have none of the side effects that people associate with steroid abuse. BB’s are known for using many times the level of steroids needed to reach supraphysilogical levels. They also use combinations of steroids. They have decades of hands on research and side effects because they cant  use scientific methods to test steroids levels, because it is illegal.  If this was monitored by a Dr, IMHO, the side effects and danger commonly associated with steroid abuse would not exist in those cases.   – I don’t have anything to back this up but I would guess that most problems caused by CS are relatively easy to rectify (e.g., remove the implants) but if there are problems caused by steroids for BB such as liver damage, the cure is much less obvious.

CS problems can usually be solved by more surgeries, some do leave permanent disfigurement. Of course if you die on the table getting those nice breasts….. Many ailments from steroid abuse are can rectifed by of all things, CS, some are irreversible if caught too late.  The liver damage worry is a carry over from the old days of taking pills, injectables do not have near the risk of liver damage.  Many drugs have much more serious effects on the liver, look at some of the commonly prescribed cholestorol lowering drugs as an example. When monitored by a properly trained physician, steroids pose very little risk. It is the people who buy steroids and use and abuse them because they dont know what they are doing that put themselves at risk. That is no different than many other drugs, such as pain killers, diet pills and allergy pils. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m sure there are others…

Response:

It appears you need to change Drs. It’s your life — you are in charge. If you can’t find a local Dr, you can contact Dr Shippen (Reading, PA) or Dr Kryger (Monteray, CA). See below links. Maybe others can suggest cooperative Drs they’ve consulted with. I’d also suggest reading the white paper "Compounded Percutaneous Testosterone Gel: Use And Effects in Hypogonadal Men".  It’s on www.familypractice.com, select "Search" (upper right), and in the Search For box, enter "testosterone". It should be the 1st article returned. Also get a copy of The Testosterone Syndrome, By Eugene Shippen. Here are a couple of links to the book on Amazon: http://urlizer.com/00/1049/ URL:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/087131858X/qid=1025708672/sr=1-1/ ref=sr_1_1/104-8675012-4516734 Here are some other links. I’m not advocating any of the treatments or content. Just trying to provide some info. http://www.wellnessmd.com http://www.acor.org/TCRC/tclinks6.html http://www.lef.org/doctors/directoryofdoctors01.html http://www.maxlife4u.com/index.html According to one study, the average total T for your age is 668 ng/dl. Some men will be higher than this and some lower. The initial target for TRT should approximate this number. Regarding your Dr saying maybe your T was always low — how does he know that? Maybe your T was always *high*, which makes your situation even worse. It appears he’s just looking for any twisted reason to not treat you, or to under-treat you. If you are at 600 ng/dl and the ref range is 300-800 that’s pretty good. If you are at 400 ng/dl and the ref range is 300-1100, that’s not good. The test disparity indicates need for several more tests, not simply believing whichever result confirms the Drs belief. However it’s also important to measure estradiol and prolactin. High levels of either can nullify the effect of T. Have you had a glucose tolerance test? That also might be wise. These aren’t exotic — they’re  just standard tests for someone with your symptoms. You should also have your *free* T measured to account for binding globulin. If all these tests look OK, you should pursue (a) getting your thyroid TSH to the 2-3 range and (b) getting your *free* T to an age-appropriate range (while maintaining normal estradiol). If you still lack energy and if you have any symptoms of depression you might consider taking Wellbutrin. It’s a stimulating antidepressant that won’t cause sexual problems. In some cases it causes mild weight loss. — Joe D.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish I could have thought to say some of these responces to my endo’s "immoral" statement.  Sadly, it seems to be a common belief.  My PCP is an endocrinologist who found low testosterone after correcting thyroid levels didn’t relieve me of lethargy.  This endo refused to write for testosterone although three successive total testosterone levels came back near the bottom of the range (240’s and 250’s for a 38 year old male).  He told me that it was a blessing in disguise since castrated men lived longer!  I asked if he was willing to castrate himself to live longer – after three appointments asking for replacement, he sent me to another endocrinologist at a large medical research university. Both docs said that lacking records showing my testosterone levels to be higher at an earlier point in life, they believed that I may have always been low, and that prescribing testosterone would raise it above "what [my] body naturally wanted" and immoral.  They said that the reference range includes people "like you" who were probably always low. How do you defend your belief that you used to be normal and that a change has occurred? Who has a record of their hormone levels when they were still normal?  What doc would order them for normal healthy people and what insurance would pay for that? Never mind the fact that I’ve always been a muscular hairy guy until my thyroid odyssey began. I got the second endo to budge when I showed him print outs of weight lifting and body fat analysis records from gym computer records from my early thirties when I was a lean power lifter. I then had to defend myself against his suspicions that I ruined my hypothalamic pituitary axis with steroids.  Finally, he wrote the ’script. When my first testosterone results came back after replacement, I was only in the 350’s and he declared me a success since I was in the range. I complained of still feeling crappy and he raised me to 10 grams androgel a day.  Last tested in the mid 400 range on one test and almost 600 on another (same blood sample that he sent to two different labs for comparison).  O.K., good enough I guess, I’m not trying to become Charles Atlas.  In fact, I have had NO time or energy to exercise.  On this visit, I mentioned that I was going to rejoin a gym to try and loose the weight.  This is when he panicked about keeping my testosterone levels from "getting too high."

Response:

Your rant brings up one for me…. Why do Dr’s consider using T for body building as wrong or immoral, when Dr’s perform and market cosmetic surgery. Without a doubt more people have died an been disfigured and suffered life long consequences from cosmetic surgery than steroid abuse, let alone Dr supervised  T supplementation. Ok, I’m done ranting…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s anti doctor rant time here… Immoral!!! What??? How is it immoral? Putting your hormone level back to normal is some how going to cause you to morph into this muscle bound rapist? I don’t think so. I guess it’s immoral to restore a diabetic’s glucose level to normal or prescribe glasses for a guy who is starting to get farsighted. Bullshit! Yes, if your T level was normal without TRT it would be unwise to agument it just so you can win the Mr. Universe competition. But, hell, that’s not what you are asking for. All you want is to be your old self again. Not to be 18 forever or to be superman, just to be your normal self. I guess he considers folks who go to weight watchers immoral too. Sheesh! IMHO, fire your doctor and let him know he’s fired. Oh, I know exactly what you mean by thyroid storm. I experienced it for about 6 months after my surgery and my doc basically did nothing, nothing. end of rant, Mike

Response:

Your rant brings up one for me…. Why do Dr’s consider using T for body building as wrong or immoral, when Dr’s perform and market cosmetic surgery. Without a doubt more people have died an been disfigured and suffered life long consequences from cosmetic surgery than steroid abuse, let alone Dr supervised  T supplementation.

I suppose the reasons lots of people (not only doctors) have problems with steroids used for body building (BB) as opposed to cosmetic surgery (CS) could be: – with BB there is considerable doubt that the steroids actually work (ref: study reported in NEJOM about a year ago); for CS you can actually see a result that is without doubt the result of surgery – some CS is actually done to remedy serious body problems (damaged jaws, missing breasts due to mastectomy etc.) whereas steroids for BB has no relation to a cure for disease, or the problems wrought by disease. – people have an idea of what "the norm" is and it doesn’t extend to muscle bound teenagers; it does extend to (say) reducing your nose if it’s the size of Jimmy Durante’s or providing some breast level (say a B cup) for a completely flat-chested girl. – despite all the hoo-hah about breast implants causing auto-immune disease and nose jobs gone awry I think most would see the surgery as more straightforward and safer than manipulating something that may have who-knows-what consequences years later. For old duffers such as ourselves it probably doesn’t matter if we inadvertently perform self-castration; it’s a lot different if some 19 year old does it. – steroid use for BB seems to most people to be cheating–aren’t races, weight lifting etc supposed to be you and not you plus a chemical? OTOH having a boob job isn’t really cheating because everyone can see it and besides the girl’s not in a race (maybe a wet T-shirt contest?). Even though she may be competing with other girls for the available males and big breasts may give her an advantage, I don’t think people like to see it that way. Perhaps it’s all’s fair in love and war. – allegedly there are significant psychological problems associated with superphysilogical levels of T which are even reported on some of the body building sites. There don’t seem to be any psychological problems with most CS or at least they’re balanced (depression vs elation). – I don’t have anything to back this up but I would guess that most problems caused by CS are relatively easy to rectify (e.g., remove the implants) but if there are problems caused by steroids for BB such as liver damage, the cure is much less obvious. I’m sure there are others…

Response:

Joe D. and MikeTX, Thanks for the replies.  I suspect that the endocrinologist is worried that if I did begin to look like a fit male again, he would be accused of abusing his prescription privileges.  After all, helping a guy look younger and feel better is immoral right? Both the endo and the primary care doc have said that they WILL NOT allow me to go into the upper half of the normal range for testosterone because it "would be immoral."  I’ve been a patient patient and haven’t raised a fuss about that.  I just want to loose the 100 lbs I gained while a former primary doc allowed me to go through thyroid storm and reach profound hypothyroidism before beginning treatment.  All hormones are currently in the middle or lower half of the ranges.  Now I want to regain the health I used to have and it seems like he’s reversed his earlier health advise (using thyroid hormone ranges versus TSH) and wants to pull back on the testosterone for some moral reasoning.  He has said on several occasions that he is a "nihilist." believing in doing the least to interrupt the natural course of the bodily physiology.  I suppose that means that he’s got a healthy respect for the body’s ability to self regulate things, but I can’t help but begin to suspect now that he is trying to prevent this 40 yr old from regaining the hard body I had up till my mid thirties. I don’t even think he knows that he’s doing this, Have others out there ran into docs feeling that hormone replacement – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s true a normal man produces more T if he works out, esp lower-body weight lifting. However this is irrelevant to someone on TRT. In that case your body isn’t producing hardly any T  – exercise probably has relatively little effect on serum T level.

Response:

Wow, it sounds like your Dr needs a psychiatrist. Whatever his philosophical or religious beliefs are, it shouldn’t affect the scientific, methodical reasoning required to diagnose and treat a condition. If it is you should seek a Dr who will treat you according to your symptoms and current scientific thought. Re immoral to be in the upper 1/2 of ref range, the position of the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists is clear on this. Their practice guidelines on this matter are at http://www.aace.com/clin/guidelines/sexdysguid.pdf. They say age-related T declines are no longer considered normal, and any man with low-normal T warrants a clinical trial of TRT. If age-related declines are abnormal the implication is clear: the lower limit of current ref ranges are artificially low, being influenced by the aged, T-deficient men in the sample group. Actual age-dependent T numbers are at:  http://www.alt-support-impotence.org/hormone_charts.htm Does he also decrease women’s HRT dose because of "moral" reasons? If not why treat men differently? Having the goal of minimally perturbing the body is good, if done within reason. If you have a headache, don’t take more aspirin than you need to get relief. With hormones it’s different, and using this approach is dangerous and harmful to the patient. E.g. by this reasoning a person with complete thyroid failure should be given the bare minimum to get them into the ref range, no more. Obviously the patient would be very unwell if treated like this. TRT is similar. As a starting point, you need the amount appropriate for YOUR AGE. Some men need more, and some less. However the age-dependent value should be the starting point for further adjustments. Read the above documents and discuss with your Dr. Tell him you don’t want to find after several more years of low-normal T that an age-appropriate T level would have avoided lots of suffering. IOW you (and your Dr) don’t want to find he’s been under-dosing you for years without proper grounds. If he doesn’t get the message, switch Drs. — Joe D.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe D. and MikeTX, Thanks for the replies.  I suspect that the endocrinologist is worried that if I did begin to look like a fit male again, he would be accused of abusing his prescription privileges.  After all, helping a guy look younger and feel better is immoral right? Both the endo and the primary care doc have said that they WILL NOT allow me to go into the upper half of the normal range for testosterone because it "would be immoral."  I’ve been a patient patient and haven’t raised a fuss about that.  I just want to loose the 100 lbs I gained while a former primary doc allowed me to go through thyroid storm and reach profound hypothyroidism before beginning treatment.  All hormones are currently in the middle or lower half of the ranges.  Now I want to regain the health I used to have and it seems like he’s reversed his earlier health advise (using thyroid hormone ranges versus TSH) and wants to pull back on the testosterone for some moral reasoning.  He has said on several occasions that he is a "nihilist." believing in doing the least to interrupt the natural course of the bodily physiology.  I suppose that means that he’s got a healthy respect for the body’s ability to self regulate things, but I can’t help but begin to suspect now that he is trying to prevent this 40 yr old from regaining the hard body I had up till my mid thirties. I don’t even think he knows that he’s doing this, Have others out there ran into docs feeling that hormone replacement It’s true a normal man produces more T if he works out, esp lower-body weight lifting. However this is irrelevant to someone on TRT. In that case your body isn’t producing hardly any T  – exercise probably has relatively little effect on serum T level.

Response:

It’s true a normal man produces more T if he works out, esp lower-body weight lifting. However this is irrelevant to someone on TRT. In that case your body isn’t producing hardly any T  – exercise probably has relatively little effect on serum T level. There’s also no "balance" between TRT and internal production. There’s no such thing as testosterone supplementation. When you start taking T, your internal production shuts down. This happens at a fairly low level of external T. By the time you’re taking enough T to reach an age-appropriate serum level, your body isn’t making any internally. Exercise is irrelevant in this case. That doesn’t mean exercise is unimportant for men on TRT — it’s very important for general health reasons. I’m not real familiar with thyroid issues, but I believe a TSH of 4.5 is too high by some standards. This seems very individualistic, but people often don’t feel well unless they take enough thyroid to lower their TSH to the 2-3 range. Considering that thyroid affects energy level and often weight, maybe you need more thyroid? Can you post your T results, including reference range? — Joe D. Message 1 in thread Newsgroups: alt.support.impotence View this article only Can anybody tell me if I’m nuts and the doc is right?  It sure seems like he’s saying the exact opposite of the correct medical advise.  He’s even contradicting his own advise in the past. I’ve been taking 25 mcg cytomel and 200 mcg levothyroxin as well as 10 grams androgel for years.  My endocrinologist always prescribed based on free T3, total t4, and free testosterone levels.  Today he told me that TSH is "the correct biological marker."  He denies saying in the past that suppressed TSH levels were meaningless due to the cytomel, and that as long as the T3 and T4 were in range, things were O.K.  The new labs show T4 under range, t3 middle range and TSH elevated (4.5). I think he’s loosing his memory.  In the same session, I said that I was joining a gym to try and remove the 100 lbs of fat that I’ve gained in the past few years.  I complained that I would loose some of the application time of the androgel because I would have to take a shower before and after the workout (before so that I don’t leave testosterone residue on the equipment).  He expressed concern that the testosterone levels would need to be watched more closely so that they don’t get ‘too high."  That sounds backwards doesn’t it?  God forbid that I show up in his office with a firm belly and muscles!  He might claim that this was a dangerous sign that I was taking too much thyroid and androgel hormones!

Response:

This is an art, not a science in some ways. If you lose a hundred pounds that could theoretically change the amount of testo that is needed to achieve a certain serum level. I think that the thought that working out could cause you to produce more T and therefore require less external T is without much merit. Your testicles would be shut down with almost any amount of external T so what difference does it make.  But the point is that he said that it needs to be watched which implies that it will be adjusted as needed, if needed at all. Just monitor it and adjust it as needed, if at all. Winter

Response:

I’m not sure about cytomel but I’m taking 7.5g androgel and 125mmg levothyroxin myself. It’s my understanding that levothyroxin is prescribed based on TSH numbers. A couple times before and just after my thyroid surgery I had T3 and T4 numbers run. I guess to make sure there was a normal correlation between them and the TSH numbers. There was and since I get TSH done twice a year with the goal of keeping it in midrange. The times my doc has raised or lower my dosage he retested a month later but only TSH. Yes, the T3/T4 numbers are the important numbers since they are the level of actual thyroid hormone but as long as things are totally screwed up TSH is used as the marker. I don’t have the ranges memorized but it looks like that the reason your TSH is elevated is that your T4 is low. That’s how it works, T4 goes down and the pituitary pumps out more TSH to try to raise it. I don’t know if the TSH is high enough to warrant raising your levothyroxin dosage or not. I’ve had my free T checked a few times but since my free T level paralleled my total T level my doc assumes that my problem is lack of T, not that too much is bound up. So, my androgel dosage is adjusted based on total T level with the goal of keeping it in the upper end of normal. It depends on when you apply your gel relative to when you work out as to whether you are loosing any application time. Why not do your daily application after your second shower? That way you only lose the last couple hours of the old application so it really isn’t going to matter much at all. If you do two applications a day, do the first after your showers and the second 8-12hrs later. I can’t see how working out would cause your T levels to skyrocket. Perhaps he thinks that the gel would absorb better if you didn’t have a thick fat layer or that if you were a smaller guy you’d somehow need less T. Maybe he’s right but I’ve never heard of this. I guess if you showed up next time looking like the Terminator he might think you were overdoing the T gel but surely a healthy weight loss and toned up muscles would be a good thing. He ought to be patting you on the back for being motivated enough to do this. I think he should be adjusting your T gel based on your blood work and how you feel, not on whether you manage to lose weight or start working out again. It’s not going to hurt anything to monitor your T level more closely. I just hope he doesn’t deside to cut your dosage making your T levels drop to the bottom of normal. That will reverse all your gains. Ok, I’ve rambled WAY too long. Time for more coffee. Mike

Response:

Can anybody tell me if I’m nuts and the doc is right?  It sure seems like he’s saying the exact opposite of the correct medical advise.  He’s even contradicting his own advise in the past. I’ve been taking 25 mcg cytomel and 200 mcg levothyroxin as well as 10 grams androgel for years.  My endocrinologist always prescribed based on free T3, total t4, and free testosterone levels.  Today he told me that TSH is "the correct biological marker."  He denies saying in the past that suppressed TSH levels were meaningless due to the cytomel, and that as long as the T3 and T4 were in range, things were O.K.  The new labs show T4 under range, t3 middle range and TSH elevated (4.5).   I think he’s loosing his memory.  In the same session, I said that I was joining a gym to try and remove the 100 lbs of fat that I’ve gained in the past few years.  I complained that I would loose some of the application time of the androgel because I would have to take a shower before and after the workout (before so that I don’t leave testosterone residue on the equipment).  He expressed concern that the testosterone levels would need to be watched more closely so that they don’t get ‘too high."  That sounds backwards doesn’t it?  God forbid that I show up in his office with a firm belly and muscles!  He might claim that this was a dangerous sign that I was taking too much thyroid and androgel hormones!

Response:

Question:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:26:06 +0000, Andy <a…@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk

wrote:

The Lupus Book, 2nd edition, page 47 says the same, and I see that he does mention sun-sensitivity – I get the impression that it’s more like light sensivitity! KCat, would you care to comment?

nah… think you covered everything I know and then some.

Response:

In article <3C5462BE.113A8…@rogers.com

, J <jwoot…@rogers.com wrote Andy wrote:

[]

Could be urinary tract infection – in which case go see doctor BUT if you have (or might have) lupus beware because you will probably be prescribed Septrin and you are likely to react badly to it. Is that the sun-sensitivity part of the warning, Andy?  

I didn’t mention the sun!

Or is there somewhere that you know of that can describe the various problems which *could* occur when taking such meds?  

[snip impressive list] I was quoting from the a.s.l.FAQ which says: …your body may react differently than someone else’s to an any given substance. However, a few drugs are universally recognized as detrimental. These include Septrin & sulphonamides. These are often prescribed for urinary tract infections and are more commonly known as "Sulfa" drugs. Most lupus sufferers respond negatively to these drugs. NOTE: Because a drug contains sulfur does not make it a "sulfa" drug. Always pay attention to any medication’s effect on you as medications can quickly become allergens in autoimmune patients. The Lupus Book, 2nd edition, page 47 says the same, and I see that he does mention sun-sensitivity – I get the impression that it’s more like light sensivitity! KCat, would you care to comment? — Andy [Editor, Austrian Philatelic Society] For Austrian philately <URL:http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps

For Lupus <URL:http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/lupus

For my other interests <URL:http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk

Response:

Hi Elle, I wondered if what you are describing might be related to the drugs the pulmonary doc prescribed for you. It seems to me that these symptoms appeared after starting those. Am I correct? BJ "Elle" <el…@surferie.net

wrote in message

news:u58cpc7lp3k1d2@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

ok guys….I have had some back/side pain, kinda bad at times….frequent urination….and I mean about 6 or 7 times during the night,   and almost every 5-7 minutes so far today…..not really running a temp, feel a

little

queasy…any suggestions?? could this be kidney involvement?

Response:

kidney involvement is not usually painful – at least not in the early stages (IIRC?) but it does sound a lot like an infection.  the pain and frequent voiding could be unrelated too so it’s important to get a UA.   have you changed meds recently at all?  Some meds will cause flank pain (though it’s rare). On Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:03:53 -0500, "Elle" <el…@surferie.net

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

ok guys….I have had some back/side pain, kinda bad at times….frequent urination….and I mean about 6 or 7 times during the night,   and almost every 5-7 minutes so far today…..not really running a temp, feel a little queasy…any suggestions?? could this be kidney involvement?

Response:

Elle, they are right on about the urinary infection.  It just could be that, but only if you have your urine checked will you know for sure. I also thought of something else, and that is maybe high sugar problems. That needs checked too. So get a urninalysis and dip to see if there is protein or sugar or albumen or just plain bugs in there. again if allergic to sulfa there are alternative antibiotics that treat urinary infection as well. janers

Response:

Yeah it just started lastnight, and the the doc put me on an antibiotic…augmentin, prednisone UGH and advair inhaler….I have urinated and this is not an exaggeration…at least 30-40 times today…not large amounts each time but I still went.  Some queasiness, and I vomited once. So I think it is an infection….slight temp elevation, 99.9, but I always run a low grade temp.  thanks for your concern.  will keep you posted. BJ <B…@sk.nojunk.ca

wrote in message

news:Ds%48.2580$iOo3.30605766@tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Elle, > I wondered if what you are describing might be related to the drugs the > pulmonary doc prescribed for you. It seems to me that these symptoms > appeared after starting those. Am I correct? > BJ > "Elle" <el…@surferie.net

wrote in message

> news:u58cpc7lp3k1d2@corp.supernews.com… > > ok guys….I have had some back/side pain, kinda bad at times….frequent

urination….and I mean about 6 or 7 times during the night,   and

almost

every 5-7 minutes so far today…..not really running a temp, feel a little queasy…any suggestions?? could this be kidney involvement?

Response:

ok guys….I have had some back/side pain, kinda bad at times….frequent urination….and I mean about 6 or 7 times during the night,   and almost every 5-7 minutes so far today…..not really running a temp, feel a little queasy…any suggestions?? could this be kidney involvement?

Response:

In article <u58cpc7lp3k…@corp.supernews.com

, Elle

<el…@surferie.net

wrote ok guys….I have had some back/side pain, kinda bad at times….frequent urination….and I mean about 6 or 7 times during the night,   and almost every 5-7 minutes so far today…..not really running a temp, feel a little queasy…any suggestions?? could this be kidney involvement?

Could be urinary tract infection – in which case go see doctor BUT if you have (or might have) lupus beware because you will probably be prescribed Septrin and you are likely to react badly to it. — Andy [Editor, Austrian Philatelic Society] For Austrian philately <URL:http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps

For Lupus <URL:http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/lupus

For my other interests <URL:http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk

Response:

Andy wrote:

In article <u58cpc7lp3k…@corp.supernews.com, Elle <el…@surferie.net wrote ok guys….I have had some back/side pain, kinda bad at times….frequent urination….and I mean about 6 or 7 times during the night,   and almost every 5-7 minutes so far today…..not really running a temp, feel a little queasy…any suggestions?? could this be kidney involvement? Could be urinary tract infection – in which case go see doctor BUT if you have (or might have) lupus beware because you will probably be prescribed Septrin and you are likely to react badly to it.

Is that the sun-sensitivity part of the warning, Andy?  Or is there somewhere that you know of that can describe the various problems which *could* occur when taking such meds?  Just wondering…back to my reaction to same 3? years ago, and my Dad getting (temporarily) paralyzed when given same during the war. J http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/sulfonamidesandtrimethopr… Cotrimoxazole aka In the U.S.– Bactrim 2 Bactrim DS 2 Bactrim I.V. 2 Bactrim Pediatric 2 Cofatrim Forte 2 Cotrim 2 Cotrim DS 2 Cotrim Pediatric 2 Septra 2 Septra DS 2 Septra I.V. 2 Septra Suspension 2 Septra Grape Suspension 2 Sulfatrim 2 Sulfatrim-DS 2 Sulfatrim Pediatric 2 Sulfatrim S/S 2 Sulfatrim Suspension 2 In Canada– Apo-Sulfatrim 2 Apo-Sulfatrim DS 2 Bactrim 2 Bactrim DS 2 Coptin 1 Coptin 1 1 Novo-Trimel 2 Novo-Trimel D.S. 2 Nu-Cotrimox 2 Nu-Cotrimox DS 2 Roubac 2 Septra 2 Septra DS 2 Other commonly used names are: Cotrimazine Cotrimoxazole SMZ-TMP

Response:

Hi.  I would like to see if those of you who have been diagnosed with lupus think that my symptoms sound like they could be lupus.  I have not gone to see a doctor yet,  but I have wondered if I have had it for several years.  My symptoms: migraine headaches,  sometimes my eyes "flit" back and forth several times,  red cheeks (but not across the nose),  migrating joint and muscle ( one day it’s my elbow,  the next day it’s my knee,  the next day it’s my wrist etc.),  occaisional pleuritic pain,  occaisional abdominal cramping with diarrhea,  feverish-feelings (no actual fever,  just feel like I have one),  fatigue and malaise,  pains that seem to run along nerve pathways…  I have also been officially diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive disorder,  depression,  and panic attacks – I am on medication for these and they are fairly well controlled at this time. I know that this is long,  but I would appreciate any opinions you have to offer.

Response:

Hi: I really think you should leave this diagnosis to your doctor, apparently they say it is extremely difficult to diagnose. I have some of your symptoms, but they are so very different to each individual person, no two people with the same symptoms. I went to a Rheumatoligist for my diagnosis, you might want to try a specialist of that nature. Good-Luck. Take care. Suzzie

Response:

Hello friends, just wondering does anybody els have polymyositis and lupus.and the arthritis,h/b, please let me know!

Response:

Polymyositis isn’t common with lupus.  My daughter was told about three years ago though that she may have dermatomyositis with hers.  In retrospect, it may be the much more common myositis.  I Polymyositis and dermatomyositis are progressive diseases resulting in muscle loss.  Dermatomyositis is like polymyositis but with skin symptoms.  Myositis is similar but not necessarily progressive, and not nearly as severe.  The Muscular Dystrophy Assn. includes information and support for these conditions. http://www.mdausa.org/ Sandra

Response:

I have what is called MCTD and i think it is all part of the overlap syndrome related to this disease. I have RA and OA also. Does this help? Always, pam / cloud

Response:

thanks pam and sandra it did help out! E.R

Response:

When I got my records and was reading my latest labs, I had a BUN?CREATININE RATIO of 30. Now that is slightly elevated as the high end is 25. Now the Creatinine was only 0.7 which is normal. So what does the ratio mean.  It has something to do with the kidney, but I suppose that is in the normal range. I also run a little low on the Hematocrit, which is iron right. I always do. My TSH was a 4.5 which I read up on. It says that could be a high number. All doctors test me for Thyroid, but then they always say it is normal. I am always fatigued, but I guess now they think it is FM since I was dx with that. I guess the fact that my eyes are a little bugged points them in the direction of Thyroid problems, but it always comes out normal.  I am rambling, but just thought that I would ask. J always knows where to tell me to look.:) Have a good day. Cindy

Response:

Cindy wrote:

When I got my records and was reading my latest labs, I had a BUN?CREATININE RATIO of 30. Now that is slightly elevated as the high end is 25. Now the Creatinine was only 0.7 which is normal. So what does the ratio mean.  It has something to do with the kidney, but I suppose that is in the normal range.

http://www.prlnet.com/Kidney.htm Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN) As described above, the major breakdown product of bodily protein (e.g., in that hamburger you had for lunch) is urea, which is first formed in the liver. Urea contains nitrogen and together, in excess quantity, they are both toxic to the body and must be removed. Kidneys normally do an excellent job of removing urea, but when they start to fail, the blood concentration of urea begins to rise. The reference range (or range within which most normal people’s test values fall) for BUN is 10-20 mg/dL. Other circumstances, such as blood in the intestinal tract, a big meal of cooked meat, simple dehydration (too little water in the tissues), or any condition which decreases blood flow to the kidneys, can cause the concentration of blood urea to rise and suggest there is something wrong in kidney function. Therefore, a second blood test is done at the same time. The second blood test measures the chemical creatinine. Blood Creatinine Creatinine is a normal blood chemical that is a breakdown product of muscle metabolism. Kidneys are normally very efficient filters of creatinine. Unlike urea, the blood creatinine concentration is much less sensitive to the degree of bodily hydration, blood or meat in the intestinal tract. The reference range for blood creatinine is 0.3-1.5 mg/dL. Considered together, the BUN, blood creatinine and their ratio give very good evidence of the filtering function of the kidneys and also, a measure of the degree of bodily hydration. The ratio of BUN: creatinine is normally 10:1. With dehydration, the ratio can increase to 20:1 or even higher. An increased BUN: creatinine ratio may also be due to certain types of kidney disease, breakdown of blood in the intestinal tract, increased dietary protein, or any clinical circumstance in which insufficient blood is flowing through the blood vessels to the kidneys (such as heart failure or kidney artery disease). The BUN: creatinine ratio is decreased in certain types of kidney disease, liver disease, malnutrition and in a condition known as Sickle Cell Anemia. If an abnormality is found in your urinalysis, BUN, blood creatinine, or BUN: creatinine ratio, you should review these results with a physician.

 I also run a little low on the Hematocrit, which is iron right. I always do.

http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/hematocrit/test….

My TSH was a 4.5 which I read up on. It says that could be a high number. All doctors test me for Thyroid, but then they always say it is normal.

http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/conditions/thyroid.html http://www.endocrineweb.com/index.html http://www.endocrineweb.com/tests.html Interpretations of the TSH level depends upon the level of thyroid hormone; therefore, the TSH is usually used in combination with other thyroid tests such as the T4 RIA and T3 RIA.

I am always fatigued, but I guess now they think it is FM since I was dx with that. I guess the fact that my eyes are a little bugged points them in the direction of Thyroid problems, but it always comes out normal.  I am rambling, but just thought that I would ask. J always knows where to tell me to look.:)

Hi Cindy, When my TSH (or anything) gets tested, there’s usually reference ranges right beside the lab values (for me). I’m really not a lab person (ie can’t figure out the "ins and outs" and values (what they mean or don’t). I had the full panel and biopsy when I first got sick with Hashi’s Thyroiditis, with some exceptions, over the years, now all they check is the TSH and if it’s between 1.1 and 5.0 I’m fairly happy on that front, if it starts going higher I start to feel cold and other hypothyroid symptoms and more pain, lower my doctor said "too hyperthyroid can bring out the same symptoms as too hypothyroid". When I see people with "buggy eyes" (even on TV), I wonder if they have Graves, which is another autoimmune form of thyroid. http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1999/10_01_99/felz.htm (describes eyes vs various ailments, IIRC) Hope some of this helps you figure some of your labs out or ammo to discuss with your doctor. If you have Lupus, that can be the source of fatique alone, maybe talk to them about your iron levels and ranges. My iron levels and TIBT are fine now but my B12 was down. Doc said B12 comes from animal proteins so I’ve tried to increase my diet on that (and the shots got me back into normal ranges) and I’m "holding fine" on that. If I sleep good (which I usually don’t), I start off with energy but pain alone can be fatique-causing On a dreary non-sunny day like this, I yawn all day long.  The sun comes out, I feel more "energized" to at least try a project or go for a walk, so comparing me to you, is not helpful, I think. Hugs J -not a doctor

Response:

bruce wrote:

how is that for short??? So now I have it CGT for me.

Congrats, Bruce ! J

Response:

bruce wrote:

(Your lucky J . The Titanic sailed awhile ago:)) I responded in order to try out cutting , or snipping or what ever the correct wording is to shorten:))

highlight then delete (or CTRL-X)? J

Response:

bruce wrote:

OOOOOOOOK , that was not shorter , GRRRRR. dislectic lefty Bruce , I’ll practice on e-mails Bruce On ." raining , cold , yuk  head and joint pain"

Why spoil our fun? do it here. I highlight with my mouse by clicking at the beginning of the text I want remove, (with right hand) then with left hand CTRL-X try ok? like riding a bike, once you learn, never forget. Hugs J

Response:

OOOOOOOOOOK , JJJJJJJJJJJ how is that for short??? I was trying to drag out the part to save instead of deleting the rest. So now I have it CGT for me. Tis funny though when I finish a sentence I turn it around and it reads correct . Bruce On. " my bank balance is fubar read either way:))) " "J" <nots…@spamNo.inv

wrote in message

news:3EEA0D27.737C5E3F@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

bruce wrote: Why spoil our fun? do it here. I highlight with my mouse by clicking at the beginning of the text I want

Response:

OOOOOOOOK , that was not shorter , GRRRRR. dislectic lefty Bruce , I’ll practice on e-mails Bruce On ." raining , cold , yuk  head and joint pain" bruce" <mcode0…@rogers.com

wrote in message

news:69lGa.87215$3Sm.70182@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> (Your lucky J . > The Titanic sailed awhile ago:)) > I responded in order to try out cutting , or snipping or what ever the > correct wording is to shorten:)) > {or did I "miss the boat" on my reply <go> > > Hugs > > I) > or did I "miss the boat" on my reply <g> > > Hugs > > J > "J" <nots…@spamNo.inv

wrote in message

> news:3EE943BD.16D53F5D@execulink.com… > > Marg Watson wrote: > > > [] > > > I just wanted to say Hi-ya & bring your post back up to the top as it > > > was precariously hanging near the bottom of the page.:-)  I had opened > > > it earlier & realized that I should at least know about Creatinine as my

Father was a dialysis patient, but my brain isn’t working today.  I am 99% positive that it is a kidney term though. J may be having a bad time this evening.  If I don’t see a link pop up soon, I’ll see what I can locate later tonight.  After a heat

treatment

& getting the dawgs inside. Hi Maggie, Did I miss another question? or did you miss my reply?

<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22question%22+group:alt.support.l… uthor:notspam%40spamNo.inv&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=3EE8BFA0.2AB40 C – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

97%40execulink.com&rnum=1

Response:

(Your lucky J . The Titanic sailed awhile ago:)) I responded in order to try out cutting , or snipping or what ever the correct wording is to shorten:)) {or did I "miss the boat" on my reply <go

Hugs I)

or did I "miss the boat" on my reply <g

Hugs J

"J" <nots…@spamNo.inv

wrote in message

news:3EE943BD.16D53F5D@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Marg Watson wrote: [] I just wanted to say Hi-ya & bring your post back up to the top as it was precariously hanging near the bottom of the page.:-)  I had opened it earlier & realized that I should at least know about Creatinine as my Father was a dialysis patient, but my brain isn’t working today.  I am 99% positive that it is a kidney term though. J may be having a bad time this evening.  If I don’t see a link pop up soon, I’ll see what I can locate later tonight.  After a heat treatment & getting the dawgs inside. Hi Maggie, Did I miss another question? or did you miss my reply?

<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22question%22+group:alt.support.l… uthor:notspam%40spamNo.inv&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=3EE8BFA0.2AB40 C 97%40execulink.com&rnum=1

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Not sure J.  LOL!  People have been saying they’re having trouble seeing the posts & maybe _I_ just didn’t see yours.  Cindy’s question was down at the bottom of my page, so I brought it up & told her that I’d do some searches tonight if you didn’t show up.:-)   Cindy, if it’s me that’s not getting the posts over here, then that link in J’s post is for you.  If this is the first you’ve (Cindy) seen of the link, then it’s time you grabbed your life jacket J!  Haw! Haw! Maggie

Response:

When I see people with "buggy eyes" (even on TV), I wonder if they have Graves, which is another autoimmune form of thyroid. http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1999/10_01_99/felz.htm (describes eyes vs various ailments, IIRC)

Ah, yeah, J. I shoulda kept reading! Grace.

Response:

Hi Cindy! Don’t know too much about all that just yet. I’m just about always tired too.  Ironically, I can’t fall asleep at night even though I yawn all day.  I guess that helped them to decide that I had Fibro.  My doc said that it was a manifestation of my autoimmune disorder, like the arthritis, but they have yet to actually name the disorder. I just wanted to say Hi-ya & bring your post back up to the top as it was precariously hanging near the bottom of the page.:-)  I had opened it earlier & realized that I should at least know about Creatinine as my Father was a dialysis patient, but my brain isn’t working today.  I am 99% positive that it is a kidney term though.   J may be having a bad time this evening.  If I don’t see a link pop up soon, I’ll see what I can locate later tonight.  After a heat treatment & getting the dawgs inside. Huggy’s Maggie

Response:

Marg Watson wrote:

[] I just wanted to say Hi-ya & bring your post back up to the top as it was precariously hanging near the bottom of the page.:-)  I had opened it earlier & realized that I should at least know about Creatinine as my Father was a dialysis patient, but my brain isn’t working today.  I am 99% positive that it is a kidney term though. J may be having a bad time this evening.  If I don’t see a link pop up soon, I’ll see what I can locate later tonight.  After a heat treatment & getting the dawgs inside.

Hi Maggie, Did I miss another question? or did you miss my reply? <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22question%22+group:alt.support.l…

or did I "miss the boat" on my reply <g

Hugs J

Response:

Thank you so much for the help…. Hoping you all have a good day. Cindy "Cindy" <cmathes1nos…@cox.net

wrote in message

news:Cd0Ga.397422$vU3.43623@news1.central.cox.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

When I got my records and was reading my latest labs, I had a

BUN?CREATININE

RATIO of 30. Now that is slightly elevated as the high end is 25. Now the Creatinine was only 0.7 which is normal. So what does the ratio mean.  It has something to do with the kidney, but I suppose that is in the normal range. I also run a little low on the Hematocrit, which is iron right. I always do. My TSH was a 4.5 which I read up on. It says that could be a high number. All doctors test me for Thyroid, but then they always say it is normal. I

am

always fatigued, but I guess now they think it is FM since I was dx with that. I guess the fact that my eyes are a little bugged points them in the direction of Thyroid problems, but it always comes out normal.  I am rambling, but just thought that I would ask. J always knows where to tell me to look.:) Have a good day. Cindy

Response:

Hi Cindy: A non-relevant point… as I understand it, bugged eyes go along with hyperactive (overactive) thyroid — bouncing off the wall people. But people who are fatigued, who are getting high Thyroid Stimulating Hormone readings (hormone trying to stimulate the thyroid), have hypothyroidism, or underactive thyroid, and they don’t have the buggy eyes (unless maybe their medication pushes them the other way!) Grace. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

All doctors test me for Thyroid, but then they always say it is normal. I am always fatigued, but I guess now they think it is FM since I was dx with that. I guess the fact that my eyes are a little bugged points them in the direction of Thyroid problems, but it always comes out normal.  I am rambling, but just thought that I would ask. J always knows where to tell me to look.:) Have a good day. Cindy

Response:

I have also heard that Ultram is a good pain medication to use with FM, its not a heavy narcotic so it wont wipe you out. Paula from AL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: "Janers" <rojak…@bright.net Organization: bright.net Ohio Newsgroups: alt.support.lupus Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:27:08 -0400 Subject: Re: question I am reading a new book on FM and CMFP, and in that book it mentions the use of anti depressants to treat FM.   Only because they NOW feel FM, is cause by a mal function in the central nervous system.  So hence antidepressants. I agree though that your friend, needs to find another opinion about this FM and the ways to treat it.  Muscle relaxers are sometimes used as well as "other:" types of drugs, so she needs to get that "second" opinion… janers

Response:

"Paula Love" <paulalo…@comcast.net

wrote in message

news:B9216093.8AAA%paulalove3@comcast.net…

I have also heard that Ultram is a good pain medication to use with FM,

its

not a heavy narcotic so it wont wipe you out.

It seemed to be helping me, before this latest "episode"

Response:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2002 23:02:57 GMT, Paula Love <paulalo…@comcast.net

wrote:

I have also heard that Ultram is a good pain medication to use with FM, its not a heavy narcotic so it wont wipe you out.

I highly recommend *trying* ultram for anyone that is having trouble with joint pain that just won’t let up.  It works best when taken daily at regular intervals as it is not a standard opiate like Vicodin or the like.  Some people get rapid relief from it, some of us see the most relief after a week or so.  If you try it and don’t feel like it’s helping right away, don’t take that to mean it isn’t working but give it time. It is not recommended for people on Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors like Prozac or Zoloft.  in small doses it’s probably safe to combine them but if you take the max dose of an SRI then Ultram could put you at a slight risk for Serotonin Syndrome (essentially an "OD" of serotonin in the brain/body). I’ve been taking it for at least 3 years now – maybe longer as I’ve lost track.  I take it daily and missing a dose reminds me just how much joint pain I had before I started it.  I’ve only had to increase the dose a couple of times short-term. It doesn’t build a tolerance in most patients the way standard pain killers do. my .02 kcat

Response:

i have been taking it 5 years have not needed a dose increase yet and it still works great and yes i miss one dose and OUCHYYYYY – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: KC <kcdoc…@ghg.net Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Newsgroups: alt.support.lupus Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 14:11:14 -0500 Subject: Re: question On Mon, 03 Jun 2002 23:02:57 GMT, Paula Love <paulalo…@comcast.net wrote: I have also heard that Ultram is a good pain medication to use with FM, its not a heavy narcotic so it wont wipe you out. I highly recommend *trying* ultram for anyone that is having trouble with joint pain that just won’t let up.  It works best when taken daily at regular intervals as it is not a standard opiate like Vicodin or the like.  Some people get rapid relief from it, some of us see the most relief after a week or so.  If you try it and don’t feel like it’s helping right away, don’t take that to mean it isn’t working but give it time. It is not recommended for people on Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors like Prozac or Zoloft.  in small doses it’s probably safe to combine them but if you take the max dose of an SRI then Ultram could put you at a slight risk for Serotonin Syndrome (essentially an "OD" of serotonin in the brain/body). I’ve been taking it for at least 3 years now – maybe longer as I’ve lost track.  I take it daily and missing a dose reminds me just how much joint pain I had before I started it.  I’ve only had to increase the dose a couple of times short-term. It doesn’t build a tolerance in most patients the way standard pain killers do. my .02 kcat

Response:

Well aint that the biggest crock of crap I ever heard!! I would STRONGLY suggest your friend get a new doctor. Two of the conditions I have is lupus and fibromyalisa and this is my list of meds. ALL of which are safe together! Plaquneil 200 mg 2x daily Vlatrex 500 mg 2x daily Dertol 2 mg 2x daily Ultram 50 mg 2x daily Naproxen 500 mg 1x daily Macrobid 100 mg 1x daily Effexor 37.5 mg 1x daily Vivelle Patch 0.1 mg 2x wk Flexaril 10mg as needed – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: "Nicole H" <nhightowerREM…@bak.rr.com Organization: RoadRunner – West Newsgroups: alt.support.lupus Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 12:28:19 GMT Subject: question Hi everyone! I have a friend online that has fibromyalgia.  She takes Effexor XR… says her seretonin is almost zero if she doesn’t.  Well, the dr will not treat the fibro any other way and says any other meds will make the Effexor useless.  This can’t be right!  Many lupus, fibro, chronic pain patients take anti-depressants along w/lots of other meds. Can anyone explain this? Thanks Nicole

Response:

I am reading a new book on FM and CMFP, and in that book it mentions the use of anti depressants to treat FM.   Only because they NOW feel FM, is cause by a mal function in the central nervous system.  So hence antidepressants. I agree though that your friend, needs to find another opinion about this FM and the ways to treat it.  Muscle relaxers are sometimes used as well as "other:" types of drugs, so she needs to get that "second" opinion… janers

Response:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2002 12:28:19 GMT, "Nicole H" <nhightowerREM…@bak.rr.com

wrote: Hi everyone! I have a friend online that has fibromyalgia.  She takes Effexor XR… says her seretonin is almost zero if she doesn’t.  

well, as yet I don’t believe there is any way to determine how much serotonin we have and how many receptors we have and what’s working or not working (re: neurotransmitters).. short of a postmortem biopsy.

Well, the dr will not treat the fibro any other way and says any other meds will make the Effexor useless.  

sounds like BS to me.  Wish I could point to something other than experience to say why I think that.  I did get relief from EFXR for about 3-4 months.  Eventually though it just stopped working WRT joint pain (continued to work WRT depression however).  I didn’t add meds so I’m having a lot of trouble believing that this doc is right. He may think he’s dealing with someone who won’t check it out and may actually be saying in his way that FM is a psychological condition and that if he adds pain killers or sleep meds this will *potentially* counteract the AD effects.  Benzos and pain killers can certainly increase depression so if he is just not being open and telling her he thinks its depression (triggering the FMS) his logic about other med would be valid.   did that make sense?  It did in my head… KCat – I am not a medical professional.  The contents of this post are based soley on my experiences and opinions http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/mypage.htm http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/aslfaq30.htm   ("`-”-/").___..–”"`-._   (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.’`)    (_Y_.)’  ._   )  `._ `. “-..-”   _..`–’_..-_/  /–’_.’ ,’ (()),-”  (()),’    (((.-’

Response:

Hi Nicole, The doctors in Canada only treat fibro with anti-depressants. I wonder if the doc is just telling your friend that he can’t combine other drugs because he doesn’t want to say that he won’t give her anything else. BJ-Sk. Canada "Nicole H" <nhightowerREM…@bak.rr.com

wrote in message

news:DhJK8.34783$R53.14792480@twister.socal.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi everyone! I have a friend online that has fibromyalgia.  She takes Effexor XR…

says

her seretonin is almost zero if she doesn’t.  Well, the dr will not treat the fibro any other way and says any other meds will make the Effexor useless.  This can’t be right!  Many lupus, fibro, chronic pain patients take anti-depressants along w/lots of other meds. Can anyone explain this? Thanks Nicole

Response:

In the U.S.

Question:

Visit http://www.medipetcare.com for a drug-free therapy which is highly effective in combating canine arthritis – without the need for all those harmful drugs.

Response:

<< He’s the love of my life. I’m so happy he doesn’t have cancer. I’m happy for you and Dmitri. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have WONDERFUL news! His tumor was a fatty tumor (lipoma), although they did do a needle biopsy to be sure. (Results back in a few days) But the doctor was certain it was just a fatty tumor and not cancerous. YAY! I’m SO relieved over that. His limp is arthritis in his elbow, so he’s going to take Prednisone for a few days and I’m also putting him on Glucosamine. (Anyone have any other remedies for arthritis?) His bloodwork just came back, and his renal is all just perfect. His blood sugar was a little bit high (163), but she said by the time they drew his blood, he was frightened, and that sends the blood sugar up a bit. So she wasn’t worried about that. The only thing from his blood work was his liver enzymes, which were a bit higher than the last time his blood was tested. However, she said it’s not unexpected in a geriatric cat, and that we’ll test him again in six months. She didn’t seem overly concerned about it, other than to keep an eye on it (and I asked for liver failure symptoms, and he has none of those, but I’ll be on the watch for them). My poor old man cat, but he’s so happy. He did so well for all the needles (plus had an anal gland expression, which he hates, but makes him feel better). He’s only got one canine left and now he has arthritis. He’s the love of my life. I’m so happy he doesn’t have cancer. I keep thinking I should get him a baby kitten. He loves everybody.

I’m so pleased to hear this (-: Keep up the good work. If you do decide to get him a little friend, I’d suggest an older cat rather than a kitten – they find it harder to find homes so you’d be doing the cat a good turn, and an older cat would be more mature and less overwhelming for Dmitri. Good luck Helen — * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tanya’s UK Feline Chronic Renal Failure Information Centre:                             http://www.felinecrf.org

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyway, I just have to wait it out until his appointment and pray that it’s a fatty tumor or something. I’ll report back tonight when I learn something…and thank you for asking about him. I have WONDERFUL news! His tumor was a fatty tumor (lipoma), although they did do a needle biopsy to be sure. (Results back in a few days) But the doctor was certain it was just a fatty tumor and not cancerous. YAY! I’m SO relieved over that. His limp is arthritis in his elbow, so he’s going to take Prednisone for a few days and I’m also putting him on Glucosamine. (Anyone have any other remedies for arthritis?) His bloodwork just came back, and his renal is all just perfect. His blood sugar was a little bit high (163), but she said by the time they drew his blood, he was frightened, and that sends the blood sugar up a bit. So she wasn’t worried about that. The only thing from his blood work was his liver enzymes, which were a bit higher than the last time his blood was tested. However, she said it’s not unexpected in a geriatric cat, and that we’ll test him again in six months. She didn’t seem overly concerned about it, other than to keep an eye on it (and I asked for liver failure symptoms, and he has none of those, but I’ll be on the watch for them). My poor old man cat, but he’s so happy. He did so well for all the needles (plus had an anal gland expression, which he hates, but makes him feel better). He’s only got one canine left and now he has arthritis. He’s the love of my life. I’m so happy he doesn’t have cancer. I keep thinking I should get him a baby kitten. He loves everybody. Juls Dmitri and his squirrel friends: http://www.ect.org/birdcam/pix/

Excellent news!! I have been wondering too. Karen

Response:

Anyway, I just have to wait it out until his appointment and pray that it’s a fatty tumor or something. I’ll report back tonight when I learn something…and thank you for asking about him.

I have WONDERFUL news! His tumor was a fatty tumor (lipoma), although they did do a needle biopsy to be sure. (Results back in a few days) But the doctor was certain it was just a fatty tumor and not cancerous. YAY! I’m SO relieved over that. His limp is arthritis in his elbow, so he’s going to take Prednisone for a few days and I’m also putting him on Glucosamine. (Anyone have any other remedies for arthritis?) His bloodwork just came back, and his renal is all just perfect. His blood sugar was a little bit high (163), but she said by the time they drew his blood, he was frightened, and that sends the blood sugar up a bit. So she wasn’t worried about that. The only thing from his blood work was his liver enzymes, which were a bit higher than the last time his blood was tested. However, she said it’s not unexpected in a geriatric cat, and that we’ll test him again in six months. She didn’t seem overly concerned about it, other than to keep an eye on it (and I asked for liver failure symptoms, and he has none of those, but I’ll be on the watch for them). My poor old man cat, but he’s so happy. He did so well for all the needles (plus had an anal gland expression, which he hates, but makes him feel better). He’s only got one canine left and now he has arthritis. He’s the love of my life. I’m so happy he doesn’t have cancer. I keep thinking I should get him a baby kitten. He loves everybody. Juls Dmitri and his squirrel friends: http://www.ect.org/birdcam/pix/

Response:

Helen’s in the UK, so she’s probably asleep by now… she’ll probably answer you tomorrow.  She has a great site for CRF, doesn’t she?  I used it, a lot, for when my 15 -16 yr. old cat was in CRF.  In the meantime… It’s such a fantastic website. Even if a person has a cat with another illness, there are some very comforting words about the end of life of a beloved friend. It really touched me.

Thank you for your kind words (-: I don’t recall seeing you post about how you got on? Hope everything went well. Helen — * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tanya’s UK Feline Chronic Renal Failure Information Centre:                             http://www.felinecrf.org

Response:

Thank you for your kind words (-: I don’t recall seeing you post about how you got on? Hope everything went well.

Unbelievably, I ended up sick from a terrible flu, missed the holidays being in bed and am just taking him to see the doc this afternoon. :::sigh::: However, Dmitri was as always, a wonderful nursemaid and fawned over me. But last night, I was petting him and discovered a lump/swelling on his side, feels like it’s on his ribcage. I was up all night crying and trying to find information on the internet, and my best guess is I won’t know until his doctor actually has a look at it. (And probably a needle biopsy) I’ve lost my last two pet friends (a dog and cat) both to cancer, and am just sick with worry that he’s now got it too. I’ve been almost obsessed about stomach cancer, rushing him off to the vet every time he vomits, because my Alex died of horrible stomach cancer. His lump feels hard, about the size of a walnut, but it’s not that well defined. It’s almost as if I’m not sure there’s really a lump there, but then I press around on him again, and it’s definitely there. But he doesn’t wince at all when I push on it. Anyway, I just have to wait it out until his appointment and pray that it’s a fatty tumor or something. I’ll report back tonight when I learn something…and thank you for asking about him. Juls

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Whiskers, Thank you so much for such great info! WIth his anal gland and constipation problems, I added canned pumpkin to his canned food (Hills WD from the vet), and it helped some, but the vet said his anal glands are so bad that he really needs to come in and have them squeezed about every 6-8 weeks. I’m going to give all of these additives a try. I still haven’t gotten him to the doctor – I ended up in bed with a nasty flu myself, and I have to say he’s been a wonderful foot warmer and very doting over me. It’s sweet, although I try not to cough on him. Juls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Juls,     Could be arthritis or just an injury from jumping. I have a chubby one too and she limps from time to time.     Best bet is Glucosamine and Vitamin C. Start with just a few grains of powdered Vit C and work up to about 500mg or more as tolerated by the bowels (too much and diahrrea is the result). If that happens back off a little for a few days and then add just a little more C once the bowel has hardened back up. Glucosamine is good at about 500mg per day. Again, start with a small amount and increase at about two week intervals. Both these can be purchased in powder form to sprinkle on the food (preferably a little canned food).     The Vitamin C also helps with the constipation as will Flax Seed Meal. This can be purchased rather inexpensively at a health food store (make sure you get the meal). Add to Dmitri’s food with the Glucosamine and Vit C. I now use about 1/8th to a 1/4 teaspoon a day for my chubby old girl Scats. She was having horrible anal gland problems and severe constipation. This has helped her tremendously. Do make sure that you have the anal glands checked about every six months, just in case, at the beginning of this treatment. You can keep Dmitri on this for the rest of his life as it will only enhance his own natural healing systems.  Excellent source for the Vit C is www.belfield.com. Dr. Belfield is a vet who produces a very good line of nutrients for animals. His Mega C Plus is really great as they get the Vit C and all the other goodies they need. My cats really like it.

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Just in case warning: do not give your cat baby aspirin unless prescribed by a vet.  A minute amount is given, every "x" days.  Aspirin is *very* toxic to cats given in the wrong dosage. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe? My 10 year old Boots has a limp. Doc said he pulled his leg a little bit and probably has some arthritis. Two days later he was limping worse so I took him back in to the vet. The vet said the same thing and told me to quit dragging him to the vet They gave him some anti-inflams. I’ve also heard doctors prescribe baby aspirin but I would definitely ask your vet. It could just be old age.

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Juls,     Could be arthritis or just an injury from jumping. I have a chubby one too and she limps from time to time.     Best bet is Glucosamine and Vitamin C. Start with just a few grains of powdered Vit C and work up to about 500mg or more as tolerated by the bowels (too much and diahrrea is the result). If that happens back off a little for a few days and then add just a little more C once the bowel has hardened back up. Glucosamine is good at about 500mg per day. Again, start with a small amount and increase at about two week intervals. Both these can be purchased in powder form to sprinkle on the food (preferably a little canned food).     The Vitamin C also helps with the constipation as will Flax Seed Meal. This can be purchased rather inexpensively at a health food store (make sure you get the meal). Add to Dmitri’s food with the Glucosamine and Vit C. I now use about 1/8th to a 1/4 teaspoon a day for my chubby old girl Scats. She was having horrible anal gland problems and severe constipation. This has helped her tremendously. Do make sure that you have the anal glands checked about every six months, just in case, at the beginning of this treatment. You can keep Dmitri on this for the rest of his life as it will only enhance his own natural healing systems.  Excellent source for the Vit C is www.belfield.com. Dr. Belfield is a vet who produces a very good line of nutrients for animals. His Mega C Plus is really great as they get the Vit C and all the other goodies they need. My cats really like it. Whiskers – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Dmitri (age 12) has been slightly limping on his front left leg. I’ve had to make him walk from room to room and can only notice it when he’s coming towards me, so it’s not a heavy limp, but it’s definitely there. I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe? He isn’t allowed outside, so couldn’t be that kind of injury, unless maybe he jumped off the couch wrong and I didn’t notice it. I’ve looked at his paw and have done a complete (hard) feel of his leg and paw, and he didn’t wince or cry. There doesn’t seem to be any pain anywhere, just this slight limp. His health problems are: bad teeth (only has one canine left and has bad tartar problems); kind of fat, though losing (LOL) – his doc put him on a special diet and he’s gone from 20 to 16 at last checkup; and he has anal gland problems, as soon as they squeeze them, they fill back up. He also has constipation sometimes and I make him eat pumpkin. His bowels are always hard, even on the pumpkin diet. Other than that, he seems to feel fine, is always happy, plays with his toy mice (although that has considerably slowed down over the years), and appetite is still too good. It’s like he has a hollow leg, and he’s never NOT hungry. The more gravy, the better. Any ideas would be appreciated. I fuss over him and worry too much. Thanks, Juls

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I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe?

My 10 year old Boots has a limp. Doc said he pulled his leg a little bit and probably has some arthritis. Two days later he was limping worse so I took him back in to the vet. The vet said the same thing and told me to quit dragging him to the vet They gave him some anti-inflams. I’ve also heard doctors prescribe baby aspirin but I would definitely ask your vet. It could just be old age.

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My cat topaz had a bit of limp in her front leg as she got older. I had it checked at the vet as well..  part of the aging process..   I agree with Mary about getting some meds from the vet. Good luck, I hope your cat will be well.. Sharon

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Helen’s in the UK, so she’s probably asleep by now… she’ll probably answer you tomorrow.  She has a great site for CRF, doesn’t she?  I used it, a lot, for when my 15 -16 yr. old cat was in CRF.  In the meantime…

It’s such a fantastic website. Even if a person has a cat with another illness, there are some very comforting words about the end of life of a beloved friend. It really touched me. Being 12, the vet will *probably* automatically screen Dmitri for kidney function (B.U.N. – blood urea nitrogen, IIRC, & creatinine), diabetes, and thyroid function (TSH – thyroid stimulating hormone, at least) – the 3 are common conditions in older cats.  If a full panel is done for bloodwork ($65 at my vets’), everything will be checked – those 3 already mentioned, plus liver values, potassium level, etc. etc.  Virtually any possible problem that would need treating would pop up; you pretty much get your money’s worth on that one!  If s/he doesn’t mention the tests for those 3 illnesses common to older cats, I’d ask to have them – or a full panel – done. Good luck in finding out what the limp is about, too.

Bless your heart for this. I’ll make my list to take in and make sure these tests are all part of the panel. I’ll let you know what I find out. Thanks, Juls

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Helen’s in the UK, so she’s probably asleep by now… she’ll probably answer you tomorrow.  She has a great site for CRF, doesn’t she?  I used it, a lot, for when my 15 -16 yr. old cat was in CRF.  In the meantime… Being 12, the vet will *probably* automatically screen Dmitri for kidney function (B.U.N. – blood urea nitrogen, IIRC, & creatinine), diabetes, and thyroid function (TSH – thyroid stimulating hormone, at least) – the 3 are common conditions in older cats.  If a full panel is done for bloodwork ($65 at my vets’), everything will be checked – those 3 already mentioned, plus liver values, potassium level, etc. etc.  Virtually any possible problem that would need treating would pop up; you pretty much get your money’s worth on that one!  If s/he doesn’t mention the tests for those 3 illnesses common to older cats, I’d ask to have them – or a full panel – done. Good luck in finding out what the limp is about, too. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If the last bloodwork was a year ago then yes, I’d definitely get it run again. Things can unfortunately change quickly once cats reach the age of 12. Do I need to ask for anything special? His last bloodwork was done prior to anesthesia (for a tooth cleaning and small cyst removal). It seemed pretty extensive to me, but I don’t want them to leave anything out, so I’d rather ask and be safe. I know for sure they tested his blood sugar, because it was a tad higher than is normal for a teenager, but wasn’t considered high for a senior. That was the one I was worried about; I just can’t remember what else they checked. The vet went over point by point on the chart, just to say everything was within normal limits for his age. Should I mention that I specifically want kidney function testing done? (And what tests would these be?) I just visited your VALUABLE (THANK YOU for such a wonderful resource, and Tanya was sure a beauty) site. The tests you list…should he have all of those now, or different ones to rule out kidney failure? (And then if the news was bad, have all the tests run) What tests at a minimum should he have done tomorrow? I’d like to have a list ready and match it up to what his vet considers a blood workup, and then ask specifically for anything not covered. I do appreciate your help so much, and thank you for all the time you’ve put into your website. I’m sure it has helped so many people. What a wonderful tribute for sweet Tanya. Juls — Dmitri’s Photo Album: Featuring Dmitri the holiday cat and his squirrel friends.  http://www.ect.org/birdcam/pix/gallery.cgi?Category=100000

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If the last bloodwork was a year ago then yes, I’d definitely get it run again. Things can unfortunately change quickly once cats reach the age of 12.

Do I need to ask for anything special? His last bloodwork was done prior to anesthesia (for a tooth cleaning and small cyst removal). It seemed pretty extensive to me, but I don’t want them to leave anything out, so I’d rather ask and be safe. I know for sure they tested his blood sugar, because it was a tad higher than is normal for a teenager, but wasn’t considered high for a senior. That was the one I was worried about; I just can’t remember what else they checked. The vet went over point by point on the chart, just to say everything was within normal limits for his age. Should I mention that I specifically want kidney function testing done? (And what tests would these be?) I just visited your VALUABLE (THANK YOU for such a wonderful resource, and Tanya was sure a beauty) site. The tests you list…should he have all of those now, or different ones to rule out kidney failure? (And then if the news was bad, have all the tests run) What tests at a minimum should he have done tomorrow? I’d like to have a list ready and match it up to what his vet considers a blood workup, and then ask specifically for anything not covered. I do appreciate your help so much, and thank you for all the time you’ve put into your website. I’m sure it has helped so many people. What a wonderful tribute for sweet Tanya. Juls — Dmitri’s Photo Album: Featuring Dmitri the holiday cat and his squirrel friends.  http://www.ect.org/birdcam/pix/gallery.cgi?Category=100000

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Dmitri (age 12) has been slightly limping on his front left leg. I’ve had to make him walk from room to room and can only notice it when he’s coming towards me, so it’s not a heavy limp, but it’s definitely there. I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe? He isn’t allowed outside, so couldn’t be that kind of injury, unless maybe he jumped off the couch wrong and I didn’t notice it. I’ve looked at his paw and have done a complete (hard) feel of his leg and paw, and he didn’t wince or cry. There doesn’t seem to be any pain anywhere, just this slight limp. His health problems are: bad teeth (only has one canine left and has bad tartar problems); kind of fat, though losing (LOL) – his doc put him on a special diet and he’s gone from 20 to 16 at last checkup; and he has anal gland problems, as soon as they squeeze them, they fill back up. He also has constipation sometimes and I make him eat pumpkin. His bowels are always hard, even on the pumpkin diet. Other than that, he seems to feel fine, is always happy, plays with his toy mice (although that has considerably slowed down over the years), and appetite is still too good. It’s like he has a hollow leg, and he’s never NOT hungry. The more gravy, the better. Any ideas would be appreciated. I fuss over him and worry too much. Thanks, Juls

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Is the paw cold to the touch? If it is, it could be a blood clot, which needs a vet *now*!! In view of his other problems and at his age, I’d strongly recommend bloodwork anyway, to check for possible kidney and thyroid problems – bad teeth are sometimes associated with renal failure Good luck Helen — * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tanya’s UK Feline Chronic Renal Failure Information Centre:                             http://www.felinecrf.org

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dmitri (age 12) has been slightly limping on his front left leg. I’ve had to make him walk from room to room and can only notice it when he’s coming towards me, so it’s not a heavy limp, but it’s definitely there. I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe? He isn’t allowed outside, so couldn’t be that kind of injury, unless maybe he jumped off the couch wrong and I didn’t notice it. I’ve looked at his paw and have done a complete (hard) feel of his leg and paw, and he didn’t wince or cry. There doesn’t seem to be any pain anywhere, just this slight limp. His health problems are: bad teeth (only has one canine left and has bad tartar problems); kind of fat, though losing (LOL) – his doc put him on a special diet and he’s gone from 20 to 16 at last checkup; and he has anal gland problems, as soon as they squeeze them, they fill back up. He also has constipation sometimes and I make him eat pumpkin. His bowels are always hard, even on the pumpkin diet. Other than that, he seems to feel fine, is always happy, plays with his toy mice (although that has considerably slowed down over the years), and appetite is still too good. It’s like he has a hollow leg, and he’s never NOT hungry. The more gravy, the better. Any ideas would be appreciated. I fuss over him and worry too much. Thanks, Juls

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Is the paw cold to the touch? If it is, it could be a blood clot, which needs a vet *now*!! In view of his other problems and at his age, I’d strongly recommend bloodwork anyway, to check for possible kidney and thyroid problems – bad teeth are sometimes associated with renal failure

Thank you for answering so quickly. I checked both paws, and both are warm, so I’d say hopefully not a clot. He had his blood done about a year or so ago, and it all checked out okay, but I’ll request it again when I take him in tomorrow just to be safe. Because of his weight, I worry about diabetes. He’s had bad teeth for quite some time…lost his first canine a few years ago, then about a year or two ago lost another. Then his third one just fell out last week. I had taken him in – he had a bulldog face with his tooth poking out his mouth like a bulldog, and they put him on antibiotics, then said see if it falls out on its own before extracting, because of the risk of anesthesia, and it did fall out, right next to his plate. Then the tooth fairy came and brought two new toy mice and a grass plant. Thanks again, Juls

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Thank you for answering so quickly.

you’re welcome (-; I checked both paws, and both are warm, so I’d say hopefully not a clot.

That’s a relief! He had his blood done about a year or so ago, and it all checked out okay, but I’ll request it again when I take him in tomorrow just to be safe. Because of his weight, I worry about diabetes.

If the last bloodwork was a year ago then yes, I’d definitely get it run again. Things can unfortunately change quickly once cats reach the age of 12. He’s had bad teeth for quite some time…lost his first canine a few years ago, then about a year or two ago lost another. Then his third one just fell out last week. I had taken him in – he had a bulldog face with his tooth poking out his mouth like a bulldog, and they put him on antibiotics, then said see if it falls out on its own before extracting, because of the risk of anesthesia, and it did fall out, right next to his plate. Then the tooth fairy came and brought two new toy mice and a grass plant.

You do need to keep an eye on this. My Tanya was always healthy apart from the occasional dental problem, but CRF got her, and quickly too. There appears to be a correlation in cats between dental problems and kidneys (in humans it appears to be between dental problems and the heart). Hopefully the bloodwork will be fine but best to check and get peace of mind or an early warning. Good luck! Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks again, Juls

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Visit http://www.medipetcare.com for a drug-free therapy which is highly effective in combating canine arthritis – without the need for all those harmful drugs.

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<< He’s the love of my life. I’m so happy he doesn’t have cancer. I’m happy for you and Dmitri. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have WONDERFUL news! His tumor was a fatty tumor (lipoma), although they did do a needle biopsy to be sure. (Results back in a few days) But the doctor was certain it was just a fatty tumor and not cancerous. YAY! I’m SO relieved over that. His limp is arthritis in his elbow, so he’s going to take Prednisone for a few days and I’m also putting him on Glucosamine. (Anyone have any other remedies for arthritis?) His bloodwork just came back, and his renal is all just perfect. His blood sugar was a little bit high (163), but she said by the time they drew his blood, he was frightened, and that sends the blood sugar up a bit. So she wasn’t worried about that. The only thing from his blood work was his liver enzymes, which were a bit higher than the last time his blood was tested. However, she said it’s not unexpected in a geriatric cat, and that we’ll test him again in six months. She didn’t seem overly concerned about it, other than to keep an eye on it (and I asked for liver failure symptoms, and he has none of those, but I’ll be on the watch for them). My poor old man cat, but he’s so happy. He did so well for all the needles (plus had an anal gland expression, which he hates, but makes him feel better). He’s only got one canine left and now he has arthritis. He’s the love of my life. I’m so happy he doesn’t have cancer. I keep thinking I should get him a baby kitten. He loves everybody.

I’m so pleased to hear this (-: Keep up the good work. If you do decide to get him a little friend, I’d suggest an older cat rather than a kitten – they find it harder to find homes so you’d be doing the cat a good turn, and an older cat would be more mature and less overwhelming for Dmitri. Good luck Helen — * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tanya’s UK Feline Chronic Renal Failure Information Centre:                             http://www.felinecrf.org

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyway, I just have to wait it out until his appointment and pray that it’s a fatty tumor or something. I’ll report back tonight when I learn something…and thank you for asking about him. I have WONDERFUL news! His tumor was a fatty tumor (lipoma), although they did do a needle biopsy to be sure. (Results back in a few days) But the doctor was certain it was just a fatty tumor and not cancerous. YAY! I’m SO relieved over that. His limp is arthritis in his elbow, so he’s going to take Prednisone for a few days and I’m also putting him on Glucosamine. (Anyone have any other remedies for arthritis?) His bloodwork just came back, and his renal is all just perfect. His blood sugar was a little bit high (163), but she said by the time they drew his blood, he was frightened, and that sends the blood sugar up a bit. So she wasn’t worried about that. The only thing from his blood work was his liver enzymes, which were a bit higher than the last time his blood was tested. However, she said it’s not unexpected in a geriatric cat, and that we’ll test him again in six months. She didn’t seem overly concerned about it, other than to keep an eye on it (and I asked for liver failure symptoms, and he has none of those, but I’ll be on the watch for them). My poor old man cat, but he’s so happy. He did so well for all the needles (plus had an anal gland expression, which he hates, but makes him feel better). He’s only got one canine left and now he has arthritis. He’s the love of my life. I’m so happy he doesn’t have cancer. I keep thinking I should get him a baby kitten. He loves everybody. Juls Dmitri and his squirrel friends: http://www.ect.org/birdcam/pix/

Excellent news!! I have been wondering too. Karen

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Anyway, I just have to wait it out until his appointment and pray that it’s a fatty tumor or something. I’ll report back tonight when I learn something…and thank you for asking about him.

I have WONDERFUL news! His tumor was a fatty tumor (lipoma), although they did do a needle biopsy to be sure. (Results back in a few days) But the doctor was certain it was just a fatty tumor and not cancerous. YAY! I’m SO relieved over that. His limp is arthritis in his elbow, so he’s going to take Prednisone for a few days and I’m also putting him on Glucosamine. (Anyone have any other remedies for arthritis?) His bloodwork just came back, and his renal is all just perfect. His blood sugar was a little bit high (163), but she said by the time they drew his blood, he was frightened, and that sends the blood sugar up a bit. So she wasn’t worried about that. The only thing from his blood work was his liver enzymes, which were a bit higher than the last time his blood was tested. However, she said it’s not unexpected in a geriatric cat, and that we’ll test him again in six months. She didn’t seem overly concerned about it, other than to keep an eye on it (and I asked for liver failure symptoms, and he has none of those, but I’ll be on the watch for them). My poor old man cat, but he’s so happy. He did so well for all the needles (plus had an anal gland expression, which he hates, but makes him feel better). He’s only got one canine left and now he has arthritis. He’s the love of my life. I’m so happy he doesn’t have cancer. I keep thinking I should get him a baby kitten. He loves everybody. Juls Dmitri and his squirrel friends: http://www.ect.org/birdcam/pix/

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Helen’s in the UK, so she’s probably asleep by now… she’ll probably answer you tomorrow.  She has a great site for CRF, doesn’t she?  I used it, a lot, for when my 15 -16 yr. old cat was in CRF.  In the meantime… It’s such a fantastic website. Even if a person has a cat with another illness, there are some very comforting words about the end of life of a beloved friend. It really touched me.

Thank you for your kind words (-: I don’t recall seeing you post about how you got on? Hope everything went well. Helen — * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tanya’s UK Feline Chronic Renal Failure Information Centre:                             http://www.felinecrf.org

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Thank you for your kind words (-: I don’t recall seeing you post about how you got on? Hope everything went well.

Unbelievably, I ended up sick from a terrible flu, missed the holidays being in bed and am just taking him to see the doc this afternoon. :::sigh::: However, Dmitri was as always, a wonderful nursemaid and fawned over me. But last night, I was petting him and discovered a lump/swelling on his side, feels like it’s on his ribcage. I was up all night crying and trying to find information on the internet, and my best guess is I won’t know until his doctor actually has a look at it. (And probably a needle biopsy) I’ve lost my last two pet friends (a dog and cat) both to cancer, and am just sick with worry that he’s now got it too. I’ve been almost obsessed about stomach cancer, rushing him off to the vet every time he vomits, because my Alex died of horrible stomach cancer. His lump feels hard, about the size of a walnut, but it’s not that well defined. It’s almost as if I’m not sure there’s really a lump there, but then I press around on him again, and it’s definitely there. But he doesn’t wince at all when I push on it. Anyway, I just have to wait it out until his appointment and pray that it’s a fatty tumor or something. I’ll report back tonight when I learn something…and thank you for asking about him. Juls

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Whiskers, Thank you so much for such great info! WIth his anal gland and constipation problems, I added canned pumpkin to his canned food (Hills WD from the vet), and it helped some, but the vet said his anal glands are so bad that he really needs to come in and have them squeezed about every 6-8 weeks. I’m going to give all of these additives a try. I still haven’t gotten him to the doctor – I ended up in bed with a nasty flu myself, and I have to say he’s been a wonderful foot warmer and very doting over me. It’s sweet, although I try not to cough on him. Juls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Juls,     Could be arthritis or just an injury from jumping. I have a chubby one too and she limps from time to time.     Best bet is Glucosamine and Vitamin C. Start with just a few grains of powdered Vit C and work up to about 500mg or more as tolerated by the bowels (too much and diahrrea is the result). If that happens back off a little for a few days and then add just a little more C once the bowel has hardened back up. Glucosamine is good at about 500mg per day. Again, start with a small amount and increase at about two week intervals. Both these can be purchased in powder form to sprinkle on the food (preferably a little canned food).     The Vitamin C also helps with the constipation as will Flax Seed Meal. This can be purchased rather inexpensively at a health food store (make sure you get the meal). Add to Dmitri’s food with the Glucosamine and Vit C. I now use about 1/8th to a 1/4 teaspoon a day for my chubby old girl Scats. She was having horrible anal gland problems and severe constipation. This has helped her tremendously. Do make sure that you have the anal glands checked about every six months, just in case, at the beginning of this treatment. You can keep Dmitri on this for the rest of his life as it will only enhance his own natural healing systems.  Excellent source for the Vit C is www.belfield.com. Dr. Belfield is a vet who produces a very good line of nutrients for animals. His Mega C Plus is really great as they get the Vit C and all the other goodies they need. My cats really like it.

Response:

Just in case warning: do not give your cat baby aspirin unless prescribed by a vet.  A minute amount is given, every "x" days.  Aspirin is *very* toxic to cats given in the wrong dosage. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe? My 10 year old Boots has a limp. Doc said he pulled his leg a little bit and probably has some arthritis. Two days later he was limping worse so I took him back in to the vet. The vet said the same thing and told me to quit dragging him to the vet They gave him some anti-inflams. I’ve also heard doctors prescribe baby aspirin but I would definitely ask your vet. It could just be old age.

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Juls,     Could be arthritis or just an injury from jumping. I have a chubby one too and she limps from time to time.     Best bet is Glucosamine and Vitamin C. Start with just a few grains of powdered Vit C and work up to about 500mg or more as tolerated by the bowels (too much and diahrrea is the result). If that happens back off a little for a few days and then add just a little more C once the bowel has hardened back up. Glucosamine is good at about 500mg per day. Again, start with a small amount and increase at about two week intervals. Both these can be purchased in powder form to sprinkle on the food (preferably a little canned food).     The Vitamin C also helps with the constipation as will Flax Seed Meal. This can be purchased rather inexpensively at a health food store (make sure you get the meal). Add to Dmitri’s food with the Glucosamine and Vit C. I now use about 1/8th to a 1/4 teaspoon a day for my chubby old girl Scats. She was having horrible anal gland problems and severe constipation. This has helped her tremendously. Do make sure that you have the anal glands checked about every six months, just in case, at the beginning of this treatment. You can keep Dmitri on this for the rest of his life as it will only enhance his own natural healing systems.  Excellent source for the Vit C is www.belfield.com. Dr. Belfield is a vet who produces a very good line of nutrients for animals. His Mega C Plus is really great as they get the Vit C and all the other goodies they need. My cats really like it. Whiskers – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Dmitri (age 12) has been slightly limping on his front left leg. I’ve had to make him walk from room to room and can only notice it when he’s coming towards me, so it’s not a heavy limp, but it’s definitely there. I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe? He isn’t allowed outside, so couldn’t be that kind of injury, unless maybe he jumped off the couch wrong and I didn’t notice it. I’ve looked at his paw and have done a complete (hard) feel of his leg and paw, and he didn’t wince or cry. There doesn’t seem to be any pain anywhere, just this slight limp. His health problems are: bad teeth (only has one canine left and has bad tartar problems); kind of fat, though losing (LOL) – his doc put him on a special diet and he’s gone from 20 to 16 at last checkup; and he has anal gland problems, as soon as they squeeze them, they fill back up. He also has constipation sometimes and I make him eat pumpkin. His bowels are always hard, even on the pumpkin diet. Other than that, he seems to feel fine, is always happy, plays with his toy mice (although that has considerably slowed down over the years), and appetite is still too good. It’s like he has a hollow leg, and he’s never NOT hungry. The more gravy, the better. Any ideas would be appreciated. I fuss over him and worry too much. Thanks, Juls

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I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe?

My 10 year old Boots has a limp. Doc said he pulled his leg a little bit and probably has some arthritis. Two days later he was limping worse so I took him back in to the vet. The vet said the same thing and told me to quit dragging him to the vet They gave him some anti-inflams. I’ve also heard doctors prescribe baby aspirin but I would definitely ask your vet. It could just be old age.

Response:

My cat topaz had a bit of limp in her front leg as she got older. I had it checked at the vet as well..  part of the aging process..   I agree with Mary about getting some meds from the vet. Good luck, I hope your cat will be well.. Sharon

Response:

Helen’s in the UK, so she’s probably asleep by now… she’ll probably answer you tomorrow.  She has a great site for CRF, doesn’t she?  I used it, a lot, for when my 15 -16 yr. old cat was in CRF.  In the meantime…

It’s such a fantastic website. Even if a person has a cat with another illness, there are some very comforting words about the end of life of a beloved friend. It really touched me. Being 12, the vet will *probably* automatically screen Dmitri for kidney function (B.U.N. – blood urea nitrogen, IIRC, & creatinine), diabetes, and thyroid function (TSH – thyroid stimulating hormone, at least) – the 3 are common conditions in older cats.  If a full panel is done for bloodwork ($65 at my vets’), everything will be checked – those 3 already mentioned, plus liver values, potassium level, etc. etc.  Virtually any possible problem that would need treating would pop up; you pretty much get your money’s worth on that one!  If s/he doesn’t mention the tests for those 3 illnesses common to older cats, I’d ask to have them – or a full panel – done. Good luck in finding out what the limp is about, too.

Bless your heart for this. I’ll make my list to take in and make sure these tests are all part of the panel. I’ll let you know what I find out. Thanks, Juls

Response:

Helen’s in the UK, so she’s probably asleep by now… she’ll probably answer you tomorrow.  She has a great site for CRF, doesn’t she?  I used it, a lot, for when my 15 -16 yr. old cat was in CRF.  In the meantime… Being 12, the vet will *probably* automatically screen Dmitri for kidney function (B.U.N. – blood urea nitrogen, IIRC, & creatinine), diabetes, and thyroid function (TSH – thyroid stimulating hormone, at least) – the 3 are common conditions in older cats.  If a full panel is done for bloodwork ($65 at my vets’), everything will be checked – those 3 already mentioned, plus liver values, potassium level, etc. etc.  Virtually any possible problem that would need treating would pop up; you pretty much get your money’s worth on that one!  If s/he doesn’t mention the tests for those 3 illnesses common to older cats, I’d ask to have them – or a full panel – done. Good luck in finding out what the limp is about, too. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If the last bloodwork was a year ago then yes, I’d definitely get it run again. Things can unfortunately change quickly once cats reach the age of 12. Do I need to ask for anything special? His last bloodwork was done prior to anesthesia (for a tooth cleaning and small cyst removal). It seemed pretty extensive to me, but I don’t want them to leave anything out, so I’d rather ask and be safe. I know for sure they tested his blood sugar, because it was a tad higher than is normal for a teenager, but wasn’t considered high for a senior. That was the one I was worried about; I just can’t remember what else they checked. The vet went over point by point on the chart, just to say everything was within normal limits for his age. Should I mention that I specifically want kidney function testing done? (And what tests would these be?) I just visited your VALUABLE (THANK YOU for such a wonderful resource, and Tanya was sure a beauty) site. The tests you list…should he have all of those now, or different ones to rule out kidney failure? (And then if the news was bad, have all the tests run) What tests at a minimum should he have done tomorrow? I’d like to have a list ready and match it up to what his vet considers a blood workup, and then ask specifically for anything not covered. I do appreciate your help so much, and thank you for all the time you’ve put into your website. I’m sure it has helped so many people. What a wonderful tribute for sweet Tanya. Juls — Dmitri’s Photo Album: Featuring Dmitri the holiday cat and his squirrel friends.  http://www.ect.org/birdcam/pix/gallery.cgi?Category=100000

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If the last bloodwork was a year ago then yes, I’d definitely get it run again. Things can unfortunately change quickly once cats reach the age of 12.

Do I need to ask for anything special? His last bloodwork was done prior to anesthesia (for a tooth cleaning and small cyst removal). It seemed pretty extensive to me, but I don’t want them to leave anything out, so I’d rather ask and be safe. I know for sure they tested his blood sugar, because it was a tad higher than is normal for a teenager, but wasn’t considered high for a senior. That was the one I was worried about; I just can’t remember what else they checked. The vet went over point by point on the chart, just to say everything was within normal limits for his age. Should I mention that I specifically want kidney function testing done? (And what tests would these be?) I just visited your VALUABLE (THANK YOU for such a wonderful resource, and Tanya was sure a beauty) site. The tests you list…should he have all of those now, or different ones to rule out kidney failure? (And then if the news was bad, have all the tests run) What tests at a minimum should he have done tomorrow? I’d like to have a list ready and match it up to what his vet considers a blood workup, and then ask specifically for anything not covered. I do appreciate your help so much, and thank you for all the time you’ve put into your website. I’m sure it has helped so many people. What a wonderful tribute for sweet Tanya. Juls — Dmitri’s Photo Album: Featuring Dmitri the holiday cat and his squirrel friends.  http://www.ect.org/birdcam/pix/gallery.cgi?Category=100000

Response:

Dmitri (age 12) has been slightly limping on his front left leg. I’ve had to make him walk from room to room and can only notice it when he’s coming towards me, so it’s not a heavy limp, but it’s definitely there. I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe? He isn’t allowed outside, so couldn’t be that kind of injury, unless maybe he jumped off the couch wrong and I didn’t notice it. I’ve looked at his paw and have done a complete (hard) feel of his leg and paw, and he didn’t wince or cry. There doesn’t seem to be any pain anywhere, just this slight limp. His health problems are: bad teeth (only has one canine left and has bad tartar problems); kind of fat, though losing (LOL) – his doc put him on a special diet and he’s gone from 20 to 16 at last checkup; and he has anal gland problems, as soon as they squeeze them, they fill back up. He also has constipation sometimes and I make him eat pumpkin. His bowels are always hard, even on the pumpkin diet. Other than that, he seems to feel fine, is always happy, plays with his toy mice (although that has considerably slowed down over the years), and appetite is still too good. It’s like he has a hollow leg, and he’s never NOT hungry. The more gravy, the better. Any ideas would be appreciated. I fuss over him and worry too much. Thanks, Juls

Response:

Is the paw cold to the touch? If it is, it could be a blood clot, which needs a vet *now*!! In view of his other problems and at his age, I’d strongly recommend bloodwork anyway, to check for possible kidney and thyroid problems – bad teeth are sometimes associated with renal failure Good luck Helen — * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tanya’s UK Feline Chronic Renal Failure Information Centre:                             http://www.felinecrf.org

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dmitri (age 12) has been slightly limping on his front left leg. I’ve had to make him walk from room to room and can only notice it when he’s coming towards me, so it’s not a heavy limp, but it’s definitely there. I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe? He isn’t allowed outside, so couldn’t be that kind of injury, unless maybe he jumped off the couch wrong and I didn’t notice it. I’ve looked at his paw and have done a complete (hard) feel of his leg and paw, and he didn’t wince or cry. There doesn’t seem to be any pain anywhere, just this slight limp. His health problems are: bad teeth (only has one canine left and has bad tartar problems); kind of fat, though losing (LOL) – his doc put him on a special diet and he’s gone from 20 to 16 at last checkup; and he has anal gland problems, as soon as they squeeze them, they fill back up. He also has constipation sometimes and I make him eat pumpkin. His bowels are always hard, even on the pumpkin diet. Other than that, he seems to feel fine, is always happy, plays with his toy mice (although that has considerably slowed down over the years), and appetite is still too good. It’s like he has a hollow leg, and he’s never NOT hungry. The more gravy, the better. Any ideas would be appreciated. I fuss over him and worry too much. Thanks, Juls

Response:

Is the paw cold to the touch? If it is, it could be a blood clot, which needs a vet *now*!! In view of his other problems and at his age, I’d strongly recommend bloodwork anyway, to check for possible kidney and thyroid problems – bad teeth are sometimes associated with renal failure

Thank you for answering so quickly. I checked both paws, and both are warm, so I’d say hopefully not a clot. He had his blood done about a year or so ago, and it all checked out okay, but I’ll request it again when I take him in tomorrow just to be safe. Because of his weight, I worry about diabetes. He’s had bad teeth for quite some time…lost his first canine a few years ago, then about a year or two ago lost another. Then his third one just fell out last week. I had taken him in – he had a bulldog face with his tooth poking out his mouth like a bulldog, and they put him on antibiotics, then said see if it falls out on its own before extracting, because of the risk of anesthesia, and it did fall out, right next to his plate. Then the tooth fairy came and brought two new toy mice and a grass plant. Thanks again, Juls

Response:

Thank you for answering so quickly.

you’re welcome (-; I checked both paws, and both are warm, so I’d say hopefully not a clot.

That’s a relief! He had his blood done about a year or so ago, and it all checked out okay, but I’ll request it again when I take him in tomorrow just to be safe. Because of his weight, I worry about diabetes.

If the last bloodwork was a year ago then yes, I’d definitely get it run again. Things can unfortunately change quickly once cats reach the age of 12. He’s had bad teeth for quite some time…lost his first canine a few years ago, then about a year or two ago lost another. Then his third one just fell out last week. I had taken him in – he had a bulldog face with his tooth poking out his mouth like a bulldog, and they put him on antibiotics, then said see if it falls out on its own before extracting, because of the risk of anesthesia, and it did fall out, right next to his plate. Then the tooth fairy came and brought two new toy mice and a grass plant.

You do need to keep an eye on this. My Tanya was always healthy apart from the occasional dental problem, but CRF got her, and quickly too. There appears to be a correlation in cats between dental problems and kidneys (in humans it appears to be between dental problems and the heart). Hopefully the bloodwork will be fine but best to check and get peace of mind or an early warning. Good luck! Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks again, Juls

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Visit http://www.medipetcare.com for a drug-free therapy which is highly effective in combating canine arthritis – without the need for all those harmful drugs.

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<< He’s the love of my life. I’m so happy he doesn’t have cancer. I’m happy for you and Dmitri. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have WONDERFUL news! His tumor was a fatty tumor (lipoma), although they did do a needle biopsy to be sure. (Results back in a few days) But the doctor was certain it was just a fatty tumor and not cancerous. YAY! I’m SO relieved over that. His limp is arthritis in his elbow, so he’s going to take Prednisone for a few days and I’m also putting him on Glucosamine. (Anyone have any other remedies for arthritis?) His bloodwork just came back, and his renal is all just perfect. His blood sugar was a little bit high (163), but she said by the time they drew his blood, he was frightened, and that sends the blood sugar up a bit. So she wasn’t worried about that. The only thing from his blood work was his liver enzymes, which were a bit higher than the last time his blood was tested. However, she said it’s not unexpected in a geriatric cat, and that we’ll test him again in six months. She didn’t seem overly concerned about it, other than to keep an eye on it (and I asked for liver failure symptoms, and he has none of those, but I’ll be on the watch for them). My poor old man cat, but he’s so happy. He did so well for all the needles (plus had an anal gland expression, which he hates, but makes him feel better). He’s only got one canine left and now he has arthritis. He’s the love of my life. I’m so happy he doesn’t have cancer. I keep thinking I should get him a baby kitten. He loves everybody.

I’m so pleased to hear this (-: Keep up the good work. If you do decide to get him a little friend, I’d suggest an older cat rather than a kitten – they find it harder to find homes so you’d be doing the cat a good turn, and an older cat would be more mature and less overwhelming for Dmitri. Good luck Helen — * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tanya’s UK Feline Chronic Renal Failure Information Centre:                             http://www.felinecrf.org

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyway, I just have to wait it out until his appointment and pray that it’s a fatty tumor or something. I’ll report back tonight when I learn something…and thank you for asking about him. I have WONDERFUL news! His tumor was a fatty tumor (lipoma), although they did do a needle biopsy to be sure. (Results back in a few days) But the doctor was certain it was just a fatty tumor and not cancerous. YAY! I’m SO relieved over that. His limp is arthritis in his elbow, so he’s going to take Prednisone for a few days and I’m also putting him on Glucosamine. (Anyone have any other remedies for arthritis?) His bloodwork just came back, and his renal is all just perfect. His blood sugar was a little bit high (163), but she said by the time they drew his blood, he was frightened, and that sends the blood sugar up a bit. So she wasn’t worried about that. The only thing from his blood work was his liver enzymes, which were a bit higher than the last time his blood was tested. However, she said it’s not unexpected in a geriatric cat, and that we’ll test him again in six months. She didn’t seem overly concerned about it, other than to keep an eye on it (and I asked for liver failure symptoms, and he has none of those, but I’ll be on the watch for them). My poor old man cat, but he’s so happy. He did so well for all the needles (plus had an anal gland expression, which he hates, but makes him feel better). He’s only got one canine left and now he has arthritis. He’s the love of my life. I’m so happy he doesn’t have cancer. I keep thinking I should get him a baby kitten. He loves everybody. Juls Dmitri and his squirrel friends: http://www.ect.org/birdcam/pix/

Excellent news!! I have been wondering too. Karen

Response:

Anyway, I just have to wait it out until his appointment and pray that it’s a fatty tumor or something. I’ll report back tonight when I learn something…and thank you for asking about him.

I have WONDERFUL news! His tumor was a fatty tumor (lipoma), although they did do a needle biopsy to be sure. (Results back in a few days) But the doctor was certain it was just a fatty tumor and not cancerous. YAY! I’m SO relieved over that. His limp is arthritis in his elbow, so he’s going to take Prednisone for a few days and I’m also putting him on Glucosamine. (Anyone have any other remedies for arthritis?) His bloodwork just came back, and his renal is all just perfect. His blood sugar was a little bit high (163), but she said by the time they drew his blood, he was frightened, and that sends the blood sugar up a bit. So she wasn’t worried about that. The only thing from his blood work was his liver enzymes, which were a bit higher than the last time his blood was tested. However, she said it’s not unexpected in a geriatric cat, and that we’ll test him again in six months. She didn’t seem overly concerned about it, other than to keep an eye on it (and I asked for liver failure symptoms, and he has none of those, but I’ll be on the watch for them). My poor old man cat, but he’s so happy. He did so well for all the needles (plus had an anal gland expression, which he hates, but makes him feel better). He’s only got one canine left and now he has arthritis. He’s the love of my life. I’m so happy he doesn’t have cancer. I keep thinking I should get him a baby kitten. He loves everybody. Juls Dmitri and his squirrel friends: http://www.ect.org/birdcam/pix/

Response:

Helen’s in the UK, so she’s probably asleep by now… she’ll probably answer you tomorrow.  She has a great site for CRF, doesn’t she?  I used it, a lot, for when my 15 -16 yr. old cat was in CRF.  In the meantime… It’s such a fantastic website. Even if a person has a cat with another illness, there are some very comforting words about the end of life of a beloved friend. It really touched me.

Thank you for your kind words (-: I don’t recall seeing you post about how you got on? Hope everything went well. Helen — * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tanya’s UK Feline Chronic Renal Failure Information Centre:                             http://www.felinecrf.org

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Thank you for your kind words (-: I don’t recall seeing you post about how you got on? Hope everything went well.

Unbelievably, I ended up sick from a terrible flu, missed the holidays being in bed and am just taking him to see the doc this afternoon. :::sigh::: However, Dmitri was as always, a wonderful nursemaid and fawned over me. But last night, I was petting him and discovered a lump/swelling on his side, feels like it’s on his ribcage. I was up all night crying and trying to find information on the internet, and my best guess is I won’t know until his doctor actually has a look at it. (And probably a needle biopsy) I’ve lost my last two pet friends (a dog and cat) both to cancer, and am just sick with worry that he’s now got it too. I’ve been almost obsessed about stomach cancer, rushing him off to the vet every time he vomits, because my Alex died of horrible stomach cancer. His lump feels hard, about the size of a walnut, but it’s not that well defined. It’s almost as if I’m not sure there’s really a lump there, but then I press around on him again, and it’s definitely there. But he doesn’t wince at all when I push on it. Anyway, I just have to wait it out until his appointment and pray that it’s a fatty tumor or something. I’ll report back tonight when I learn something…and thank you for asking about him. Juls

Response:

Whiskers, Thank you so much for such great info! WIth his anal gland and constipation problems, I added canned pumpkin to his canned food (Hills WD from the vet), and it helped some, but the vet said his anal glands are so bad that he really needs to come in and have them squeezed about every 6-8 weeks. I’m going to give all of these additives a try. I still haven’t gotten him to the doctor – I ended up in bed with a nasty flu myself, and I have to say he’s been a wonderful foot warmer and very doting over me. It’s sweet, although I try not to cough on him. Juls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Juls,     Could be arthritis or just an injury from jumping. I have a chubby one too and she limps from time to time.     Best bet is Glucosamine and Vitamin C. Start with just a few grains of powdered Vit C and work up to about 500mg or more as tolerated by the bowels (too much and diahrrea is the result). If that happens back off a little for a few days and then add just a little more C once the bowel has hardened back up. Glucosamine is good at about 500mg per day. Again, start with a small amount and increase at about two week intervals. Both these can be purchased in powder form to sprinkle on the food (preferably a little canned food).     The Vitamin C also helps with the constipation as will Flax Seed Meal. This can be purchased rather inexpensively at a health food store (make sure you get the meal). Add to Dmitri’s food with the Glucosamine and Vit C. I now use about 1/8th to a 1/4 teaspoon a day for my chubby old girl Scats. She was having horrible anal gland problems and severe constipation. This has helped her tremendously. Do make sure that you have the anal glands checked about every six months, just in case, at the beginning of this treatment. You can keep Dmitri on this for the rest of his life as it will only enhance his own natural healing systems.  Excellent source for the Vit C is www.belfield.com. Dr. Belfield is a vet who produces a very good line of nutrients for animals. His Mega C Plus is really great as they get the Vit C and all the other goodies they need. My cats really like it.

Response:

Just in case warning: do not give your cat baby aspirin unless prescribed by a vet.  A minute amount is given, every "x" days.  Aspirin is *very* toxic to cats given in the wrong dosage. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe? My 10 year old Boots has a limp. Doc said he pulled his leg a little bit and probably has some arthritis. Two days later he was limping worse so I took him back in to the vet. The vet said the same thing and told me to quit dragging him to the vet They gave him some anti-inflams. I’ve also heard doctors prescribe baby aspirin but I would definitely ask your vet. It could just be old age.

Response:

Juls,     Could be arthritis or just an injury from jumping. I have a chubby one too and she limps from time to time.     Best bet is Glucosamine and Vitamin C. Start with just a few grains of powdered Vit C and work up to about 500mg or more as tolerated by the bowels (too much and diahrrea is the result). If that happens back off a little for a few days and then add just a little more C once the bowel has hardened back up. Glucosamine is good at about 500mg per day. Again, start with a small amount and increase at about two week intervals. Both these can be purchased in powder form to sprinkle on the food (preferably a little canned food).     The Vitamin C also helps with the constipation as will Flax Seed Meal. This can be purchased rather inexpensively at a health food store (make sure you get the meal). Add to Dmitri’s food with the Glucosamine and Vit C. I now use about 1/8th to a 1/4 teaspoon a day for my chubby old girl Scats. She was having horrible anal gland problems and severe constipation. This has helped her tremendously. Do make sure that you have the anal glands checked about every six months, just in case, at the beginning of this treatment. You can keep Dmitri on this for the rest of his life as it will only enhance his own natural healing systems.  Excellent source for the Vit C is www.belfield.com. Dr. Belfield is a vet who produces a very good line of nutrients for animals. His Mega C Plus is really great as they get the Vit C and all the other goodies they need. My cats really like it. Whiskers – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Dmitri (age 12) has been slightly limping on his front left leg. I’ve had to make him walk from room to room and can only notice it when he’s coming towards me, so it’s not a heavy limp, but it’s definitely there. I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe? He isn’t allowed outside, so couldn’t be that kind of injury, unless maybe he jumped off the couch wrong and I didn’t notice it. I’ve looked at his paw and have done a complete (hard) feel of his leg and paw, and he didn’t wince or cry. There doesn’t seem to be any pain anywhere, just this slight limp. His health problems are: bad teeth (only has one canine left and has bad tartar problems); kind of fat, though losing (LOL) – his doc put him on a special diet and he’s gone from 20 to 16 at last checkup; and he has anal gland problems, as soon as they squeeze them, they fill back up. He also has constipation sometimes and I make him eat pumpkin. His bowels are always hard, even on the pumpkin diet. Other than that, he seems to feel fine, is always happy, plays with his toy mice (although that has considerably slowed down over the years), and appetite is still too good. It’s like he has a hollow leg, and he’s never NOT hungry. The more gravy, the better. Any ideas would be appreciated. I fuss over him and worry too much. Thanks, Juls

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I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe?

My 10 year old Boots has a limp. Doc said he pulled his leg a little bit and probably has some arthritis. Two days later he was limping worse so I took him back in to the vet. The vet said the same thing and told me to quit dragging him to the vet They gave him some anti-inflams. I’ve also heard doctors prescribe baby aspirin but I would definitely ask your vet. It could just be old age.

Response:

My cat topaz had a bit of limp in her front leg as she got older. I had it checked at the vet as well..  part of the aging process..   I agree with Mary about getting some meds from the vet. Good luck, I hope your cat will be well.. Sharon

Response:

Helen’s in the UK, so she’s probably asleep by now… she’ll probably answer you tomorrow.  She has a great site for CRF, doesn’t she?  I used it, a lot, for when my 15 -16 yr. old cat was in CRF.  In the meantime…

It’s such a fantastic website. Even if a person has a cat with another illness, there are some very comforting words about the end of life of a beloved friend. It really touched me. Being 12, the vet will *probably* automatically screen Dmitri for kidney function (B.U.N. – blood urea nitrogen, IIRC, & creatinine), diabetes, and thyroid function (TSH – thyroid stimulating hormone, at least) – the 3 are common conditions in older cats.  If a full panel is done for bloodwork ($65 at my vets’), everything will be checked – those 3 already mentioned, plus liver values, potassium level, etc. etc.  Virtually any possible problem that would need treating would pop up; you pretty much get your money’s worth on that one!  If s/he doesn’t mention the tests for those 3 illnesses common to older cats, I’d ask to have them – or a full panel – done. Good luck in finding out what the limp is about, too.

Bless your heart for this. I’ll make my list to take in and make sure these tests are all part of the panel. I’ll let you know what I find out. Thanks, Juls

Response:

Helen’s in the UK, so she’s probably asleep by now… she’ll probably answer you tomorrow.  She has a great site for CRF, doesn’t she?  I used it, a lot, for when my 15 -16 yr. old cat was in CRF.  In the meantime… Being 12, the vet will *probably* automatically screen Dmitri for kidney function (B.U.N. – blood urea nitrogen, IIRC, & creatinine), diabetes, and thyroid function (TSH – thyroid stimulating hormone, at least) – the 3 are common conditions in older cats.  If a full panel is done for bloodwork ($65 at my vets’), everything will be checked – those 3 already mentioned, plus liver values, potassium level, etc. etc.  Virtually any possible problem that would need treating would pop up; you pretty much get your money’s worth on that one!  If s/he doesn’t mention the tests for those 3 illnesses common to older cats, I’d ask to have them – or a full panel – done. Good luck in finding out what the limp is about, too. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If the last bloodwork was a year ago then yes, I’d definitely get it run again. Things can unfortunately change quickly once cats reach the age of 12. Do I need to ask for anything special? His last bloodwork was done prior to anesthesia (for a tooth cleaning and small cyst removal). It seemed pretty extensive to me, but I don’t want them to leave anything out, so I’d rather ask and be safe. I know for sure they tested his blood sugar, because it was a tad higher than is normal for a teenager, but wasn’t considered high for a senior. That was the one I was worried about; I just can’t remember what else they checked. The vet went over point by point on the chart, just to say everything was within normal limits for his age. Should I mention that I specifically want kidney function testing done? (And what tests would these be?) I just visited your VALUABLE (THANK YOU for such a wonderful resource, and Tanya was sure a beauty) site. The tests you list…should he have all of those now, or different ones to rule out kidney failure? (And then if the news was bad, have all the tests run) What tests at a minimum should he have done tomorrow? I’d like to have a list ready and match it up to what his vet considers a blood workup, and then ask specifically for anything not covered. I do appreciate your help so much, and thank you for all the time you’ve put into your website. I’m sure it has helped so many people. What a wonderful tribute for sweet Tanya. Juls — Dmitri’s Photo Album: Featuring Dmitri the holiday cat and his squirrel friends.  http://www.ect.org/birdcam/pix/gallery.cgi?Category=100000

Response:

If the last bloodwork was a year ago then yes, I’d definitely get it run again. Things can unfortunately change quickly once cats reach the age of 12.

Do I need to ask for anything special? His last bloodwork was done prior to anesthesia (for a tooth cleaning and small cyst removal). It seemed pretty extensive to me, but I don’t want them to leave anything out, so I’d rather ask and be safe. I know for sure they tested his blood sugar, because it was a tad higher than is normal for a teenager, but wasn’t considered high for a senior. That was the one I was worried about; I just can’t remember what else they checked. The vet went over point by point on the chart, just to say everything was within normal limits for his age. Should I mention that I specifically want kidney function testing done? (And what tests would these be?) I just visited your VALUABLE (THANK YOU for such a wonderful resource, and Tanya was sure a beauty) site. The tests you list…should he have all of those now, or different ones to rule out kidney failure? (And then if the news was bad, have all the tests run) What tests at a minimum should he have done tomorrow? I’d like to have a list ready and match it up to what his vet considers a blood workup, and then ask specifically for anything not covered. I do appreciate your help so much, and thank you for all the time you’ve put into your website. I’m sure it has helped so many people. What a wonderful tribute for sweet Tanya. Juls — Dmitri’s Photo Album: Featuring Dmitri the holiday cat and his squirrel friends.  http://www.ect.org/birdcam/pix/gallery.cgi?Category=100000

Response:

Dmitri (age 12) has been slightly limping on his front left leg. I’ve had to make him walk from room to room and can only notice it when he’s coming towards me, so it’s not a heavy limp, but it’s definitely there. I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe? He isn’t allowed outside, so couldn’t be that kind of injury, unless maybe he jumped off the couch wrong and I didn’t notice it. I’ve looked at his paw and have done a complete (hard) feel of his leg and paw, and he didn’t wince or cry. There doesn’t seem to be any pain anywhere, just this slight limp. His health problems are: bad teeth (only has one canine left and has bad tartar problems); kind of fat, though losing (LOL) – his doc put him on a special diet and he’s gone from 20 to 16 at last checkup; and he has anal gland problems, as soon as they squeeze them, they fill back up. He also has constipation sometimes and I make him eat pumpkin. His bowels are always hard, even on the pumpkin diet. Other than that, he seems to feel fine, is always happy, plays with his toy mice (although that has considerably slowed down over the years), and appetite is still too good. It’s like he has a hollow leg, and he’s never NOT hungry. The more gravy, the better. Any ideas would be appreciated. I fuss over him and worry too much. Thanks, Juls

Response:

Is the paw cold to the touch? If it is, it could be a blood clot, which needs a vet *now*!! In view of his other problems and at his age, I’d strongly recommend bloodwork anyway, to check for possible kidney and thyroid problems – bad teeth are sometimes associated with renal failure Good luck Helen — * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tanya’s UK Feline Chronic Renal Failure Information Centre:                             http://www.felinecrf.org

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dmitri (age 12) has been slightly limping on his front left leg. I’ve had to make him walk from room to room and can only notice it when he’s coming towards me, so it’s not a heavy limp, but it’s definitely there. I’ll take him to the doctor tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone has had this and what it could be? Arthritis maybe? He isn’t allowed outside, so couldn’t be that kind of injury, unless maybe he jumped off the couch wrong and I didn’t notice it. I’ve looked at his paw and have done a complete (hard) feel of his leg and paw, and he didn’t wince or cry. There doesn’t seem to be any pain anywhere, just this slight limp. His health problems are: bad teeth (only has one canine left and has bad tartar problems); kind of fat, though losing (LOL) – his doc put him on a special diet and he’s gone from 20 to 16 at last checkup; and he has anal gland problems, as soon as they squeeze them, they fill back up. He also has constipation sometimes and I make him eat pumpkin. His bowels are always hard, even on the pumpkin diet. Other than that, he seems to feel fine, is always happy, plays with his toy mice (although that has considerably slowed down over the years), and appetite is still too good. It’s like he has a hollow leg, and he’s never NOT hungry. The more gravy, the better. Any ideas would be appreciated. I fuss over him and worry too much. Thanks, Juls

Response:

Is the paw cold to the touch? If it is, it could be a blood clot, which needs a vet *now*!! In view of his other problems and at his age, I’d strongly recommend bloodwork anyway, to check for possible kidney and thyroid problems – bad teeth are sometimes associated with renal failure

Thank you for answering so quickly. I checked both paws, and both are warm, so I’d say hopefully not a clot. He had his blood done about a year or so ago, and it all checked out okay, but I’ll request it again when I take him in tomorrow just to be safe. Because of his weight, I worry about diabetes. He’s had bad teeth for quite some time…lost his first canine a few years ago, then about a year or two ago lost another. Then his third one just fell out last week. I had taken him in – he had a bulldog face with his tooth poking out his mouth like a bulldog, and they put him on antibiotics, then said see if it falls out on its own before extracting, because of the risk of anesthesia, and it did fall out, right next to his plate. Then the tooth fairy came and brought two new toy mice and a grass plant. Thanks again, Juls

Response:

Thank you for answering so quickly.

you’re welcome (-; I checked both paws, and both are warm, so I’d say hopefully not a clot.

That’s a relief! He had his blood done about a year or so ago, and it all checked out okay, but I’ll request it again when I take him in tomorrow just to be safe. Because of his weight, I worry about diabetes.

If the last bloodwork was a year ago then yes, I’d definitely get it run again. Things can unfortunately change quickly once cats reach the age of 12. He’s had bad teeth for quite some time…lost his first canine a few years ago, then about a year or two ago lost another. Then his third one just fell out last week. I had taken him in – he had a bulldog face with his tooth poking out his mouth like a bulldog, and they put him on antibiotics, then said see if it falls out on its own before extracting, because of the risk of anesthesia, and it did fall out, right next to his plate. Then the tooth fairy came and brought two new toy mice and a grass plant.

You do need to keep an eye on this. My Tanya was always healthy apart from the occasional dental problem, but CRF got her, and quickly too. There appears to be a correlation in cats between dental problems and kidneys (in humans it appears to be between dental problems and the heart). Hopefully the bloodwork will be fine but best to check and get peace of mind or an early warning. Good luck! Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks again, Juls

Response:

Question:

divalproex sodium Pronunciation: dye val PROE ex Brand: Depakote, Depakote ER, Depakote Sprinkles What is the most important information I should know about divalproex sodium?  .  In rare cases, divalproex sodium has caused liver failure, sometimes resulting in death. Children younger than 2 years of age, especially those taking multiple seizure medicines, those with metabolic diseases, those with mental retardation, and those with organic brain disease are at the highest risk of liver failure. Notify your doctor immediately if you develop loss of seizure control, weakness, fatigue, swelling of the face, vomiting, or loss of appetite. These symptoms may be early signs of liver damage.  .  In rare cases, divalproex sodium has also caused severe, even fatal, cases of pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas). Some of the cases have progressed rapidly from initial symptoms to death. Cases have been reported soon after starting treatment with divalproex sodium, as well as after several years of use. Notify your doctor immediately if you develop nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, or loss of appetite. These symptoms may be early signs of pancreatitis.  .  Do not stop taking your medication even if you feel better. It is important to continue taking divalproex sodium to prevent your seizures from recurring.  .  Do not crush, chew, or break the capsules or delayed- or extended-release tablets (Depakote, Depakote ER). Swallow them whole.  .  Carry or wear a medical identification tag to let others know that you are taking this medicine in the case of an emergency.  .  Divalproex sodium may interact with other drugs that cause drowsiness, including alcohol, antidepressants, antihistamines, pain relievers, anxiety medicines, and muscle relaxants. Dangerous sedation, dizziness, or drowsiness may occur if divalproex sodium is taken with alcohol or any of these medications. Talk to your doctor before taking divalproex sodium in combination with alcohol or any other medicines. What is divalproex sodium?  .  Divalproex sodium affects chemicals in your body that may be involved in causing seizures, migraines, and mania. The exact way that it works is unknown.  .  Divalproex sodium is used to treat various types of seizure disorders, to prevent migraine headaches, and to control mania associated with bipolar disorder.  .  Divalproex sodium may also be used for purposes other than those listed in this medication guide. Who should not take divalproex sodium?  .  Do not take valproic acid if you have liver disease.  .  Divalproex sodium is in the FDA pregnancy category D. This means that it is known to harm an unborn baby. Malformations of the face and head, heart, and nervous system have been reported. Do not take divalproex sodium without first talking to your doctor if you are pregnant.  .  Divalproex sodium passes into breast milk and may affect a nursing infant. Do not take divalproex sodium without first talking to your doctor if you are breast-feeding a baby.  .  Divalproex sodium is not approved for the treatment of migraines in children younger than 16 years of age or for the treatment of mania in children younger than 18 years of age. Extreme caution must be used if valproic acid is used to treat seizures in a child younger than 2 years of age due to the increased risk of liver damage. How should I take divalproex sodium?  .  Take divalproex sodium exactly as directed by your doctor. If you do not understand these directions, ask your pharmacist, nurse, or doctor to explain them to you.  .  Take each dose with a full glass of water.  .  Take divalproex sodium with food if it upsets your stomach.  .  Do not crush, chew, or break the capsules or delayed- or extended-release tablets (Depakote, Depakote ER). Swallow them whole.  .  The sprinkle capsules can either be swallowed whole or opened and sprinkled onto some soft food such as applesauce or pudding.  .  Your doctor may want you to have blood tests during your therapy. It is important for your doctor to know how much medication is in your blood and how well your liver is working.  .  Carry or wear a medical identification tag to let others know that you are taking this medicine in the case of an emergency.  .  Do not stop taking your medication even if you feel better. It is important to continue taking divalproex sodium to prevent your seizures from recurring.  .  Store divalproex sodium at room temperature away from moisture and heat. What happens if I miss a dose?  .  Take the missed dose as soon as you remember. However, if it is almost time for your next dose, skip the dose you missed and take only your next regularly scheduled dose. Do not take a double dose of this medication. What happens if I overdose?  .  Seek emergency medical attention.  .  Symptoms of a divalproex sodium overdose include unconsciousness, sleepiness or drowsiness, faint or no heartbeat, decreased breathing, or stopped breathing. What should I avoid while taking divalproex sodium?  .  Divalproex sodium may interact with other drugs that cause drowsiness, including alcohol, antidepressants, antihistamines, pain relievers, anxiety medicines, and muscle relaxants. Dangerous sedation, dizziness, or drowsiness may occur if divalproex sodium is taken with alcohol or any of these medications. Talk to your doctor before taking divalproex sodium in combination with alcohol or any other medicines.  .  Use caution when driving, operating machinery, or performing other hazardous activities. Divalproex sodium may cause dizziness or drowsiness. If you experience dizziness or drowsiness, avoid these activities. What are the possible side effects of divalproex sodium?  .  In rare cases, divalproex sodium has caused liver failure, sometimes resulting in death. Children younger than 2 years of age, especially those taking multiple seizure medicines, those with metabolic diseases, those with mental retardation, and those with organic brain disease are at the highest risk of liver failure. Notify your doctor immediately if you develop loss of seizure control, weakness, fatigue, swelling of the face, vomiting, or loss of appetite. These symptoms may be early signs of liver damage.  .  In rare cases, divalproex sodium has also caused severe, even fatal, cases of pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas). Some of the cases have progressed rapidly from initial symptoms to death. Cases have been reported soon after starting treatment with divalproex sodium, as well as after several years of use. Notify your doctor immediately if you develop nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, or loss of appetite. These symptoms may be early signs of pancreatitis.  .  If you experience any of the following serious side effects, stop taking divalproex sodium and seek emergency medical attention:      

Question:

How do you know Remeron caused the rash? Nobody can say for sure. But the first time the rash appeared coincided with the use of Remeron. Since then it has appeared with every med. she took caused the same rash. So we thought maybe it’s the fillers and Diana Perhaps Diana has a chronic skin condition unrelated to the meds she has taken. Indeed. But it seems at least remarkable that the rash disappears when she’s not taking any meds and reappears as soon as she starts taking one, whichever…

I haven’t been following this, and I don’t know much about allergic reactions to the various chemicals in meds, but it seems to me there can only be two valid explanations for this. 1) there is a common allergin in all the meds she has tried. Possible. 2) It is a "nervous" reactions to taking medications. This is quite possible. A allergy specialist may be able to sort it out. Ian

Response:

Philip, No it is not the time of the year, I love this time when the evenings are long.

I see….I like long evenings too but my favourite season remains summer when one can go out without a coat even in H olland…. Today was the day that my mother died so I had a hell of a week.

I can relate….. I am sorry about that. Also whe had to go out of the house and than I need more valium. Maybe you know the pleace, Steenwijk, Emmeloord,

Yep. I have been to Steenwijk and I seem to remember Emmeloord as well. How much Valium do you take on such a day and did it go well? Love Diana.

Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rash on my body wors than before. Oh dear…..you get it coming and going, don’t you? I was in the university clinic and she give me Elyzol 1%, but that is now the trouble. This morning I was to my GP and they are there with 3GP’s. I have show them wat this med; do to me. it eat’s my skin away. the liquid flow out of my skin, and the most where I have it ,is on my chest. Doesn’t sound good at all. My own GP ask the other 2 if they want to look at it, and both they say she in the university has it wrong. This can’t be Rosacea, so I go tomorrow to a other hopital for a blood test. What hospital, Diana? I am appalled, indeed almost speechless, at the Groningen university clinic dermatologist…. you should think about suing her. He give me now Tetracycline caps 250mg because it is now inflamed, I have to take that for 14 day’s and than he will see it again, if I would not have trouble with any side effect’s than I have to come sooner. Not only my own GP was angry but also the other 2GP’s. I have told them that I had to take the last days more valium than I normel do because this is not one of my best time. This is a bad time for many people with PAD what with the days getting shorter and darker and the ominous Holiday Season drawing near…. They are also the meaning that it has to do something with the fillers in the med; that I have used the last 2 years. so if thid bring me nothing I wil ask my Pdoc when I see him(jan9) what I can do and if he don’t know I will. Yes, the fillers…. we thought that all along….I am beinning to believe that there must have been something with the Remeron that caused it….I didn’t believe that at first… Than I go to the west of the Netherlands(Amsterdam, to my own people) and I will ask them If they want to help me. If you could see me now how my chest look it is dirthy. I need to use bandage for my clothes. Poor soul…..*&^$%# !! To the AMC, Diana? I am all for it and always have been. I am very disappointed in the Groningen hospital. You have every reason to be *very angry* now, IMO. Love Diana. Philip

Response:

Philip, She don’t say to me that she was a real doc, that is maybe why she would not answer my questions. I have try the find out if i have take some other soap or what i am eating, but there is nothing that i can find. It is all the same as 2 years ago.

I don’t agree. You have learned a lot, for example: that it *is* possible to have *no* anxiety. This was when you first were on the Remeron and felt like you had gotten a *new life* and you flew to Ireland and had a great vacation and lots more of great stuff. So it is *proven* that you can live without anxiety. Now you have bad luck with this bitch doctor in Groningen but let’s wait for the results of the bloodwork and if that isn;t satisfying I think you should indeed go back to the AMC. I feel the solution is *around the corner* and someday soon you will find it. You know how it work in a university clinic, they don’t say nothing. This morning i went to a other hospital for a blood test and i hope that they will find something. This is something that can’t go on, I DON’T want this NO more.

Of course you don’t want this anymore, it’s quite terrible. BUT not wanting it anymore means trying *everything* to change it. I simply do NOT believe that you will be the only human being in the world who can’t make progress with anxiety, especialluy as it has been proven that you can. (Grammar Problem: I suddenly forget whether it is *proven* or *proved*…anybody please? ) I am tired of all this, in a other message you ask me how it went to Emmeloord and Steenwijk, I don’t know I was so stoned from the valium so I don’t remember very much of the ride. How much I take?? to much.

How much is that? I told you all that I will try to go to Amsterdam AMC, but don’t forget it is for me very far

I know but if necessary you can do it. I wonder if you have relatives or good friends in Amsterdam where you could stay for a bit if necessary. After all you are from Amsterdam (as am I)…. or they should admit you as an inpatient in order to do every test under the sun. Did you read Margrove’s and Chip’s posts? If not I have them filed away and can forward them to you. And it will take a lot of me, but maybe that my Pdoc can help me when he is back. He can do more than I can.

Hm…you can do *everything*, actually it’s amazing how strong you are. The pdoc can help you help yourself. In the meantime why not find a CB-therapist? That’s *active work* which is most rewarding as you can literally make yourself progress….. and there *is* a CBT-therapist in your very street….(me havem good memory, benzobrain or no benzobrain). If you can go to Groningen or even Amsterdam you can also go to the closest CBT practice – they may have one in Meppel too. The great thing about CBT is that you can actually *do* something for yourself, *work* on it which is effective and a boost to your self esteem, I promise you that. Love Diana.

Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The peculiar thing is that Diana (hi, Diana, we’re talking *about* you! Sshtt! *We* are talking *about* you )) had been on several AD’s and benzos for years without any skin problem. Then she was goven remeron which was the first med that actually worked for her and gave her her life back and then she had to stop taking it because it caused this rash. So far so good. But from then on every med How do you know Remeron caused the rash? Nobody can say for sure. But the first time the rash appeared coincided with the use of Remeron. Since then it has appeared with every med. she took caused the same rash. So we thought maybe it’s the fillers and Diana Perhaps Diana has a chronic skin condition unrelated to the meds she has taken. Indeed. But it seems at least remarkable that the rash disappears when she’s not taking any meds and reappears as soon as she starts taking one, whichever… tried liquid Prozac (is that right, Diana or is *benzobrain* here confusing his meds?) with *no* fillers and still got the rash. Also now on Valium. What in the That supports the notion that her rash is not caused by her meds or by their fillers. You may be right but it still seems med related because it only appears when she takes a med. Even if this were coincidental, what could it be? world can have caused this? It seems like *something* in the Remeron. But what? I would not assume (based on what I know of the facts) that her rash is caused by Remeron. Or by any of the meds she has taken. You may very well be right. But what *can* it be? And how? And why? And how to go on? Now there was this dermatologist at Groningen university clinic who diagnosed her with *rosacea* but it’s not in her face, but on her chest….3 GP’s say the diagnosis is incorrect. Even if it was correct the wrong med was prescribed…. To the best of my knowledge, rosacea  occurs *only* on the face. Perhaps Diana has two types of rashes: Rosacea on her face, and another type of rash on her chest. I’ve seen patients with 3 or 4 different types of rashes on various parts of their body all at the same time. Hm….this warrants more research… What a mess…. there should be a clear step by step plan for a *complete* examination of Diana’s blood and someone should look more closely into the Remeron connection. I’ve never heard of something like this before, have you, Margrove? Chip? I wonder if Diana saw a med student or resident at the University she went to. And not a full blown dermatolgist. Dianaaaaaaaaa! Was the doc you saw een *assistent* of een echte al heel lang afgestudeerde huidarts? I think it’s a good idea if Diana went to the AMC, the Amsyterdam University clinic. But wouldn’t it be best if she could write down *exactly* what to ask and No. She should say she’s depressed, anxious, and has a rash and wants diagnoses and treatment for them. Let the doctors think of the appropriate questions to ask Diana. Of course. But why not go both ways? what to have done? This has to be treated and fast and good. She shouldn’t have to suffer like this for so long at the hands of all sorts of incompetent doctors. Help. Philip That Amsterdam University Clinic sounds like a good bet. She should see a generalist (i.e. GP, Family Practioner, or Internest) first for evaluation, and he can make appropriate referrals for psych and derm if necessary. Chip On behalf of Diana and the Dutch people in general: thank you for your advice which is certainly illuminating IMO. Philip Before you buy.

Response:

Philip, She don’t say to me that she was a real doc, that is maybe why she would not answer my questions. I have try the find out if i have take some other soap or what i am eating, but there is nothing that i can find. It is all the same as 2 years ago. You know how it work in a university clinic, they don’t say nothing. This morning i went to a other hospital for a blood test and i hope that they will find something. This is something that can’t go on, I DON’T want this NO more. I am tired of all this, in a other message you ask me how it went to Emmeloord and Steenwijk, I don’t know I was so stoned from the valium so I don’t remember very much of the ride. How much I take?? to much. I told you all that I will try to go to Amsterdam AMC, but don’t forget it is for me very far And it will take a lot of me, but maybe that my Pdoc can help me when he is back. He can do more than I can. Love Diana. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The peculiar thing is that Diana (hi, Diana, we’re talking *about* you! Sshtt! *We* are talking *about* you )) had been on several AD’s and benzos for years without any skin problem. Then she was goven remeron which was the first med that actually worked for her and gave her her life back and then she had to stop taking it because it caused this rash. So far so good. But from then on every med How do you know Remeron caused the rash? Nobody can say for sure. But the first time the rash appeared coincided with the use of Remeron. Since then it has appeared with every med. she took caused the same rash. So we thought maybe it’s the fillers and Diana Perhaps Diana has a chronic skin condition unrelated to the meds she has taken. Indeed. But it seems at least remarkable that the rash disappears when she’s not taking any meds and reappears as soon as she starts taking one, whichever… tried liquid Prozac (is that right, Diana or is *benzobrain* here confusing his meds?) with *no* fillers and still got the rash. Also now on Valium. What in the That supports the notion that her rash is not caused by her meds or by their fillers. You may be right but it still seems med related because it only appears when she takes a med. Even if this were coincidental, what could it be? world can have caused this? It seems like *something* in the Remeron. But what? I would not assume (based on what I know of the facts) that her rash is caused by Remeron. Or by any of the meds she has taken. You may very well be right. But what *can* it be? And how? And why? And how to go on? Now there was this dermatologist at Groningen university clinic who diagnosed her with *rosacea* but it’s not in her face, but on her chest….3 GP’s say the diagnosis is incorrect. Even if it was correct the wrong med was prescribed…. To the best of my knowledge, rosacea  occurs *only* on the face. Perhaps Diana has two types of rashes: Rosacea on her face, and another type of rash on her chest. I’ve seen patients with 3 or 4 different types of rashes on various parts of their body all at the same time. Hm….this warrants more research… What a mess…. there should be a clear step by step plan for a *complete* examination of Diana’s blood and someone should look more closely into the Remeron connection. I’ve never heard of something like this before, have you, Margrove? Chip? I wonder if Diana saw a med student or resident at the University she went to. And not a full blown dermatolgist. Dianaaaaaaaaa! Was the doc you saw een *assistent* of een echte al heel lang afgestudeerde huidarts? I think it’s a good idea if Diana went to the AMC, the Amsyterdam University clinic. But wouldn’t it be best if she could write down *exactly* what to ask and No. She should say she’s depressed, anxious, and has a rash and wants diagnoses and treatment for them. Let the doctors think of the appropriate questions to ask Diana. Of course. But why not go both ways? what to have done? This has to be treated and fast and good. She shouldn’t have to suffer like this for so long at the hands of all sorts of

incompetent doctors. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help. Philip That Amsterdam University Clinic sounds like a good bet. She should see a generalist (i.e. GP, Family Practioner, or Internest) first for evaluation, and he can make appropriate referrals for psych and derm if necessary. Chip On behalf of Diana and the Dutch people in general: thank you for your advice which is certainly illuminating IMO. Philip Before you buy.

Response:

Philip, No it is not the time of the year, I love this time when the evenings are long. Today was the day that my mother died so I had a hell of a week. Also whe had to go out of the house and than I need more valium. Maybe you know the pleace, Steenwijk, Emmeloord, Love Diana. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rash on my body wors than before. Oh dear…..you get it coming and going, don’t you? I was in the university clinic and she give me Elyzol 1%, but that is now the trouble. This morning I was to my GP and they are there with 3GP’s. I have show them wat this med; do to me. it eat’s my skin away. the liquid flow out of my skin, and the most where I have it ,is on my chest. Doesn’t sound good at all. My own GP ask the other 2 if they want to look at it, and both they say she in the university has it wrong. This can’t be Rosacea, so I go tomorrow to a other hopital for a blood test. What hospital, Diana? I am appalled, indeed almost speechless, at the Groningen university clinic dermatologist…. you should think about suing her. He give me now Tetracycline caps 250mg because it is now inflamed, I have to take that for 14 day’s and than he will see it again, if I would not have trouble with any side effect’s than I have to come sooner. Not only my own GP was angry but also the other 2GP’s. I have told them that I had to take the last days more valium than I normel do because this is not one of my best time. This is a bad time for many people with PAD what with the days getting shorter and darker and the ominous Holiday Season drawing near…. They are also the meaning that it has to do something with the fillers in the med; that I have used the last 2 years. so if thid bring me nothing I wil ask my Pdoc when I see him(jan9) what I can do and if he don’t know I will. Yes, the fillers…. we thought that all along….I am beinning to believe that there must have been something with the Remeron that caused it….I didn’t believe that at first… Than I go to the west of the Netherlands(Amsterdam, to my own people) and I will ask them If they want to help me. If you could see me now how my chest look it is dirthy. I need to use bandage for my clothes. Poor soul…..*&^$%# !! To the AMC, Diana? I am all for it and always have been. I am very disappointed in the Groningen hospital. You have every reason to be *very angry* now, IMO. Love Diana. Philip

Response:

Topical metronidazole, in either 0.75% gel twice daily or 1% cream once daily, is the topical treatment of choice for Rosacea. Chip I’ll have you talk to my wife she’s a dermotologist and insists it isn’t except in textbooks LM

Anyway, the subject at hand isn’t Rosacea at all as it seems so this little dispute is of little consequence. P.

Response:

The peculiar thing is that Diana (hi, Diana, we’re talking *about* you! Sshtt! *We* are talking *about* you )) had been on several AD’s and benzos for years without any skin problem. Then she was goven remeron which was the first med that actually worked for her and gave her her life back and then she had to stop taking it because it caused this rash. So far so good. But from then on every med How do you know Remeron caused the rash?

Nobody can say for sure. But the first time the rash appeared coincided with the use of Remeron. Since then it has appeared with every med. she took caused the same rash. So we thought maybe it’s the fillers and Diana Perhaps Diana has a chronic skin condition unrelated to the meds she has taken.

Indeed. But it seems at least remarkable that the rash disappears when she’s not taking any meds and reappears as soon as she starts taking one, whichever… tried liquid Prozac (is that right, Diana or is *benzobrain* here confusing his meds?) with *no* fillers and still got the rash. Also now on Valium. What in the That supports the notion that her rash is not caused by her meds or by their fillers.

You may be right but it still seems med related because it only appears when she takes a med. Even if this were coincidental, what could it be? world can have caused this? It seems like *something* in the Remeron. But what? I would not assume (based on what I know of the facts) that her rash is caused by Remeron. Or by any of the meds she has taken.

You may very well be right. But what *can* it be? And how? And why? And how to go on? Now there was this dermatologist at Groningen university clinic who diagnosed her with *rosacea* but it’s not in her face, but on her chest….3 GP’s say the diagnosis is incorrect. Even if it was correct the wrong med was prescribed…. To the best of my knowledge, rosacea  occurs *only* on the face. Perhaps Diana has two types of rashes: Rosacea on her face, and another type of rash on her chest. I’ve seen patients with 3 or 4 different types of rashes on various parts of their body all at the same time.

Hm….this warrants more research… What a mess…. there should be a clear step by step plan for a *complete* examination of Diana’s blood and someone should look more closely into the Remeron connection. I’ve never heard of something like this before, have you, Margrove? Chip? I wonder if Diana saw a med student or resident at the University she went to. And not a full blown dermatolgist.

Dianaaaaaaaaa! Was the doc you saw een *assistent* of een echte al heel lang afgestudeerde huidarts? I think it’s a good idea if Diana went to the AMC, the Amsyterdam University clinic. But wouldn’t it be best if she could write down *exactly* what to ask and No. She should say she’s depressed, anxious, and has a rash and wants diagnoses and treatment for them. Let the doctors think of the appropriate questions to ask Diana.

Of course. But why not go both ways? what to have done? This has to be treated and fast and good. She shouldn’t have to suffer like this for so long at the hands of all sorts of incompetent doctors. Help. Philip That Amsterdam University Clinic sounds like a good bet. She should see a generalist (i.e. GP, Family Practioner, or Internest) first for evaluation, and he can make appropriate referrals for psych and derm if necessary. Chip

On behalf of Diana and the Dutch people in general: thank you for your advice which is certainly illuminating IMO. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before you buy.

Response:

The peculiar thing is that Diana (hi, Diana, we’re talking *about* you! Sshtt! *We* are talking *about* you )) had been on several AD’s and benzos for years without any skin problem. Then she was goven remeron which was the first med that actually worked for her and gave her her life back and then she had to stop taking it because it caused this rash. So far so good. But from then on every med How do you know Remeron caused the rash? Nobody can say for sure. But the first time the rash appeared coincided with the use of Remeron. Since then it has appeared with every med.

Did the rash disappear when she stopped the Remeron? One would have to look very closely at the temporal relationship between the start of a med and the onset of a rash. As well as stopping the med with disappearance of the rash. Are these observations made by a physician? she took caused the same rash. So we thought maybe it’s the fillers and Diana Perhaps Diana has a chronic skin condition unrelated to the meds she has taken. Indeed. But it seems at least remarkable that the rash disappears when she’s not taking any meds and reappears as soon as she starts taking one, whichever…

Has a physician observed this? tried liquid Prozac (is that right, Diana or is *benzobrain* here confusing his meds?) with *no* fillers and still got the rash. Also now on Valium. What in the That supports the notion that her rash is not caused by her meds or by their fillers. You may be right but it still seems med related because it only appears when she takes a med. Even if this were coincidental, what could it be?

It could be alot of different kinds of rashes. However, a good rule of thumb is that common rashes tend to occur more commonly than rare ones. And she may have a common skin rash completely unrelated to any meds she’s taking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – world can have caused this? It seems like *something* in the Remeron. But what? I would not assume (based on what I know of the facts) that her rash is caused by Remeron. Or by any of the meds she has taken. You may very well be right. But what *can* it be? And how? And why? And how to go on? Now there was this dermatologist at Groningen university clinic who diagnosed her with *rosacea* but it’s not in her face, but on her chest….3 GP’s say the diagnosis is incorrect. Even if it was correct the wrong med was prescribed…. To the best of my knowledge, rosacea  occurs *only* on the face. Perhaps Diana has two types of rashes: Rosacea on her face, and another type of rash on her chest. I’ve seen patients with 3 or 4 different types of rashes on various parts of their body all at the same time. Hm….this warrants more research…

And Diana should report her symptoms and let the doctors do the reasearch for the answers. What a mess…. there should be a clear step by step plan for a *complete* examination of Diana’s blood and someone should look more closely into the Remeron connection. I’ve never heard of something like this before, have you, Margrove? Chip? I wonder if Diana saw a med student or resident at the University she went to. And not a full blown dermatolgist. Dianaaaaaaaaa! Was the doc you saw een *assistent* of een echte al heel lang afgestudeerde huidarts?

Ask Diana if she accidently saw the janitor instead of a doctor. I think it’s a good idea if Diana went to the AMC, the Amsyterdam University clinic. But wouldn’t it be best if she could write down *exactly* what to ask and No. She should say she’s depressed, anxious, and has a rash and wants diagnoses and treatment for them. Let the doctors think of the appropriate questions to ask Diana. Of course. But why not go both ways?

If the time with the doctor is limited, I would let the doctor take the lead in asking questions he thinks are important. It will be hard for the doctor to answer Diana’s questions before he has some idea of what her problems are. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what to have done? This has to be treated and fast and good. She shouldn’t have to suffer like this for so long at the hands of all sorts of incompetent doctors. Help. Philip That Amsterdam University Clinic sounds like a good bet. She should see a generalist (i.e. GP, Family Practioner, or Internest) first for evaluation, and he can make appropriate referrals for psych and derm if necessary. Chip On behalf of Diana and the Dutch people in general: thank you for your advice which is certainly illuminating IMO. Philip

Myself and all the people of the USA are happy to do whatever we can for Diana and the rest of the Dutch people. Chip Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Metronidazole

well in that case if this is rosacea topical antifungals can make it worse in some cases and cause some eruptive dermatosis-so Diana may just be highly allergenic and skin sensitive-the tetracycline orally may help in a few days but this had best be looked at by a dermo-one can also absorb this stuff through the skin and its effects seen elsewhere if hypersensitive to it LM

Response:

Margrove asked:

another thought-years ago I had a client who had developed a significant urinary tract infection she went through a culture and sensitivity or her urine and it was a microbe that was only killed by pennicilin-It was determined that the only form that had accesibility to the area of her urinary tract this was breeding in was carbenicillin-she was highly allergic to penicillins and other meds with similar antimicrobial effect were useless-so her doc gave her geocillin and benadryl and she got better with no allergic reactions-if Dianna’s psychiatric condition deems it necessary she could go this route as well provided it’s risk vrs benefit ratio is intact-It is hard to believe that of all the available meds in the antidepressant arena some of which have weak antihistamic properties by themselves will cause an allergic reaction. The other meds may not deliver as much relief as is wanted but they may help. the available polypharmocological possibilities are huge including mood stabilizers reversinle and irreversible maoi’s nueroleptics and not the very least cbt-Paying such focus on drug cures is in some cases a waste of time if the patient is intolerant of all of them for whatever reason. Which I find hard to believe. If no other organic reason is found using even non scientific allergenic testing like rast blood tests with diluted ad meds to see if antigens are present-then one must conclude that meds are not an option. But this has not been exhausted as of yet as far as I can see. Professional intervention from someone who is willing to put the time in and use a medicaly viable bases for their conclusions is mandatory and I do hope is obtained. If not in the Netherlands then somewhere else that is accesible LM

Response:

Metronidazole well in that case if this is rosacea topical antifungals can make it worse in

Topical metronidazole, in either 0.75% gel twice daily or 1% cream once daily, is the topical treatment of choice for Rosacea. Chip some cases and cause some eruptive dermatosis-so Diana may just be highly allergenic and skin sensitive-the tetracycline orally may help in a few days but this had best be looked at by a dermo-one can also absorb this stuff through the skin and its effects seen elsewhere if hypersensitive to it LM

Before you buy.

Response:

This is all I can offer you because I’m not a doctor.  I hope you blast them all at that hospital!!! Love, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rash on my body wors than before. I was in the university clinic and she give me Elyzol 1%, but that is now the trouble. This morning I was to my GP and they are there with 3GP’s. I have show them wat this med; do to me. it eat’s my skin away. the liquid flow out of my skin, and the most where I have it ,is on my chest. My own GP ask the other 2 if they want to look at it, and both they say she in the university has it wrong. This can’t be Rosacea, so I go tomorrow to a other hopital for a blood test. He give me now Tetracycline caps 250mg because it is now inflamed, I have to take that for 14 day’s and than he will see it again, if I would not have trouble with any side effect’s than I have to come sooner. Not only my own GP was angry but also the other 2GP’s. I have told them that I had to take the last days more valium than I normel do because this is not one of my best time. They are also the meaning that it has to do something with the fillers in the med; that I have used the last 2 years. so if thid bring me nothing I wil ask my Pdoc when I see him(jan9) what I can do and if he don’t know I will. Than I go to the west of the Netherlands(Amsterdam, to my own people) and I will ask them If they want to help me. If you could see me now how my chest look it is dirthy. I need to use bandage for my clothes. Love Diana.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rash on my body wors than before. I was in the university clinic and she give me Elyzol 1%, but that is now the trouble. This morning I was to my GP and they are there with 3GP’s. I have show them wat this med; do to me. it eat’s my skin away. the liquid flow out of my skin, and the most where I have it ,is on my chest. My own GP ask the other 2 if they want to look at it, and both they say she in the university has it wrong. This can’t be Rosacea, so I go tomorrow to a other hopital for a blood test. He give me now Tetracycline caps 250mg because it is now inflamed, I have to take that for 14 day’s and than he will see it again, if I would not have trouble with any side effect’s than I have to come sooner. Not only my own GP was angry but also the other 2GP’s. I have told them that I had to take the last days more valium than I normel do because this is not one of my best time. They are also the meaning that it has to do something with the fillers in the med; that I have used the last 2 years. so if thid bring me nothing I wil ask my Pdoc when I see him(jan9) what I can do and if he don’t know I will. Than I go to the west of the Netherlands(Amsterdam, to my own people) and I will ask them If they want to help me. If you could see me now how my chest look it is dirthy. I need to use bandage for my clothes.

Dear Diana, I am so sorry this is happening to you. I want to wish you much luck at the hospital tomorrow, hopefully they will have some answers for you. Hang in there, this is going to be taken care of, I am sure of it. Jackie

Response:

Topical metronidazole, in either 0.75% gel twice daily or 1% cream once daily, is the topical treatment of choice for Rosacea. Chip

I’ll have you talk to my wife she’s a dermotologist and insists it isn’t except in textbooks LM

Response:

Hi, Diana, Sorry to hear about your rash.  Besure to follow up on the blood test tomorrow – call your doctor afterwards and see what he says.  if he offers nothing TELL him you WANT to see a determalogist TODAY.  they have played around too long with you you need to be very assertive and get some results. Please keep us posted.   ((((((DIANA))))))  - thinking of you! smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rash on my body wors than before. I was in the university clinic and she give me Elyzol 1%, but that is now the trouble. This morning I was to my GP and they are there with 3GP’s. I have show them wat this med; do to me. it eat’s my skin away. the liquid flow out of my skin, and the most where I have it ,is on my chest. My own GP ask the other 2 if they want to look at it, and both they say she in the university has it wrong. This can’t be Rosacea, so I go tomorrow to a other hopital for a blood test. He give me now Tetracycline caps 250mg because it is now inflamed, I have to take that for 14 day’s and than he will see it again, if I would not have trouble with any side effect’s than I have to come sooner. Not only my own GP was angry but also the other 2GP’s. I have told them that I had to take the last days more valium than I normel do because this is not one of my best time. They are also the meaning that it has to do something with the fillers in the med; that I have used the last 2 years. so if thid bring me nothing I wil ask my Pdoc when I see him(jan9) what I can do and if he don’t know I will. Than I go to the west of the Netherlands(Amsterdam, to my own people) and I will ask them If they want to help me. If you could see me now how my chest look it is dirthy. I need to use bandage for my clothes. Love Diana.

Response:

Metronidazole well in that case if this is rosacea topical antifungals can make it worse in some cases and cause some eruptive dermatosis-so Diana may just be highly allergenic and skin sensitive-the tetracycline orally may help in a few days but this had best be looked at by a dermo-one can also absorb this stuff through the skin and its effects seen elsewhere if hypersensitive to it LM

The peculiar thing is that Diana (hi, Diana, we’re talking *about* you! Sshtt! *We* are talking *about* you )) had been on several AD’s and benzos for years without any skin problem. Then she was goven remeron which was the first med that actually worked for her and gave her her life back and then she had to stop taking it because it caused this rash. So far so good. But from then on every med she took caused the same rash. So we thought maybe it’s the fillers and Diana tried liquid Prozac (is that right, Diana or is *benzobrain* here confusing his meds?) with *no* fillers and still got the rash. Also now on Valium. What in the world can have caused this? It seems like *something* in the Remeron. But what? And how? And why? And how to go on? Now there was this dermatologist at Groningen university clinic who diagnosed her with *rosacea* but it’s not in her face, but on her chest….3 GP’s say the diagnosis is incorrect. Even if it was correct the wrong med was prescribed…. What a mess…. there should be a clear step by step plan for a *complete* examination of Diana’s blood and someone should look more closely into the Remeron connection. I’ve never heard of something like this before, have you, Margrove? Chip? I think it’s a good idea if Diana went to the AMC, the Amsyterdam University clinic. But wouldn’t it be best if she could write down *exactly* what to ask and what to have done? This has to be treated and fast and good. She shouldn’t have to suffer like this for so long at the hands of all sorts of incompetent doctors. Help. Philip

Response:

The rash on my body wors than before.

Oh dear…..you get it coming and going, don’t you? I was in the university clinic and she give me Elyzol 1%, but that is now the trouble. This morning I was to my GP and they are there with 3GP’s. I have show them wat this med; do to me. it eat’s my skin away. the liquid flow out of my skin, and the most where I have it ,is on my chest.

Doesn’t sound good at all. My own GP ask the other 2 if they want to look at it, and both they say she in the university has it wrong. This can’t be Rosacea, so I go tomorrow to a other hopital for a blood test.

What hospital, Diana? I am appalled, indeed almost speechless, at the Groningen university clinic dermatologist…. you should think about suing her. He give me now Tetracycline caps 250mg because it is now inflamed, I have to take that for 14 day’s and than he will see it again, if I would not have trouble with any side effect’s than I have to come sooner. Not only my own GP was angry but also the other 2GP’s. I have told them that I had to take the last days more valium than I normel do because this is not one of my best time.

This is a bad time for many people with PAD what with the days getting shorter and darker and the ominous Holiday Season drawing near…. They are also the meaning that it has to do something with the fillers in the med; that I have used the last 2 years. so if thid bring me nothing I wil ask my Pdoc when I see him(jan9) what I can do and if he don’t know I will.

Yes, the fillers…. we thought that all along….I am beinning to believe that there must have been something with the Remeron that caused it….I didn’t believe that at first… Than I go to the west of the Netherlands(Amsterdam, to my own people) and I will ask them If they want to help me. If you could see me now how my chest look it is dirthy. I need to use bandage for my clothes.

Poor soul…..*&^$%# !! To the AMC, Diana? I am all for it and always have been. I am very disappointed in the Groningen hospital. You have every reason to be *very angry* now, IMO. Love Diana.

Philip

Response:

rosacea*

rarely affects large areas of the body-it can but usually doesn’t-if other docs see this inflamation and conclude it isn’t rosacea then why does one claim it is? If one is allergic to remeron or whatever fillers are in it or one has a dermotological sensitivity to one class of drugs they wouldn’t to all-unless they have a very serious problem like a type 1 ige reaction or a type 2 cytotoxic one or type 3 complex reactions-the only way to determine this is by examination and testing-all I can say is in 25 years I have had clients who are allergic to one specific med or class but not to all according to my wife oral meds are used for the best treatment of rosacea and one is the antibiotic tetracycline with oral flagyl (her antifungal cream in oral form) topicaly or oraly administered retinoids for some forms and there are two new meds on the market here which I am not familiar with-my rotation in dermo was brief and rosacea was only covered in text not in person and back then the treatment was wrong anyway. I have not seen anything like this so a much more thorough exam by a dermo and or an allergist is called for with lots of blood work to see if it is something much more sinister -bottom line if drugs are not feasible then rigorous therapy is but there are so many meds that I cannot believe one cannotbe found that helps even if it is not revelatory-remeron is a good drug for depression-if it worked then similar mechanisms of action can be replecated with others-or treatment can resume with it once the etiology of her rash is determined and that should be the primary goal LM

Response:

Topical metronidazole, in either 0.75% gel twice daily or 1% cream once daily, is the topical treatment of choice for Rosacea. Chip I’ll have you talk to my wife she’s a dermotologist and insists it isn’t except in textbooks LM

Dermatol Clin 2000 Jan;18(1):63-71, viii Acne and rosacea. New and emerging therapies. Thiboutot DM  Section of Dermatology, Pennsylvania State University, College The goal of this article is to highlight recent developments in the treatment of acne and rosacea. An update on the use of isotretinoin, minocycline, topical retinoids, and hormones in the treatment of acne are presented. Highlights of research findings that may lead to future acne therapies are discussed. **New in the management of rosacea are studies demonstrating the efficacy of 1% topical metronidazole in the treatment of rosacea, reports on the successful maintenance of remissions of rosacea with 0.75% metronidazole gel**, and data regarding the controversial association of rosacea with Helicobacter pylori infection. Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Metronidazole well in that case if this is rosacea topical antifungals can make it worse in some cases and cause some eruptive dermatosis-so Diana may just be highly allergenic and skin sensitive-the tetracycline orally may help in a few days but this had best be looked at by a dermo-one can also absorb this stuff through the skin and its effects seen elsewhere if hypersensitive to it LM The peculiar thing is that Diana (hi, Diana, we’re talking *about* you! Sshtt! *We* are talking *about* you )) had been on several AD’s and benzos for years without any skin problem. Then she was goven remeron which was the first med that actually worked for her and gave her her life back and then she had to stop taking it because it caused this rash. So far so good. But from then on every med

How do you know Remeron caused the rash? she took caused the same rash. So we thought maybe it’s the fillers and Diana

Perhaps Diana has a chronic skin condition unrelated to the meds she has taken. tried liquid Prozac (is that right, Diana or is *benzobrain* here confusing his meds?) with *no* fillers and still got the rash. Also now on Valium. What in the

That supports the notion that her rash is not caused by her meds or by their fillers. world can have caused this? It seems like *something* in the Remeron. But what?

I would not assume (based on what I know of the facts) that her rash is caused by Remeron. Or by any of the meds she has taken. And how? And why? And how to go on? Now there was this dermatologist at Groningen university clinic who diagnosed her with *rosacea* but it’s not in her face, but on her chest….3 GP’s say the diagnosis is incorrect. Even if it was correct the wrong med was prescribed….

To the best of my knowledge, rosacea  occurs *only* on the face. Perhaps Diana has two types of rashes: Rosacea on her face, and another type of rash on her chest. I’ve seen patients with 3 or 4 different types of rashes on various parts of their body all at the same time. What a mess…. there should be a clear step by step plan for a *complete* examination of Diana’s blood and someone should look more closely into the Remeron connection. I’ve never heard of something like this before, have you, Margrove? Chip?

I wonder if Diana saw a med student or resident at the University she went to. And not a full blown dermatolgist. I think it’s a good idea if Diana went to the AMC, the Amsyterdam University clinic. But wouldn’t it be best if she could write down *exactly* what to ask and

No. She should say she’s depressed, anxious, and has a rash and wants diagnoses and treatment for them. Let the doctors think of the appropriate questions to ask Diana. what to have done? This has to be treated and fast and good. She shouldn’t have to suffer like this for so long at the hands of all sorts of incompetent doctors. Help. Philip

That Amsterdam University Clinic sounds like a good bet. She should see a generalist (i.e. GP, Family Practioner, or Internest) first for evaluation, and he can make appropriate referrals for psych and derm if necessary. Chip Before you buy.

Response:

The rash on my body wors than before. I was in the university clinic and she give me Elyzol 1%, but that is now the trouble. This morning I was to my GP and they are there with 3GP’s. I have show them wat this med; do to me. it eat’s my skin away. the liquid flow out of my skin, and the most where I have it ,is on my chest. My own GP ask the other 2 if they want to look at it, and both they say she in the university has it wrong. This can’t be Rosacea, so I go tomorrow to a other hopital for a blood test. He give me now Tetracycline caps 250mg because it is now inflamed, I have to take that for 14 day’s and than he will see it again, if I would not have trouble with any side effect’s than I have to come sooner. Not only my own GP was angry but also the other 2GP’s. I have told them that I had to take the last days more valium than I normel do because this is not one of my best time. They are also the meaning that it has to do something with the fillers in the med; that I have used the last 2 years. so if thid bring me nothing I wil ask my Pdoc when I see him(jan9) what I can do and if he don’t know I will. Than I go to the west of the Netherlands(Amsterdam, to my own people) and I will ask them If they want to help me. If you could see me now how my chest look it is dirthy. I need to use bandage for my clothes. Love Diana.

Response:

Elyzol 1%

I don’t know what this is-what is the chemical name on the tube??? Get over to a dermotologist or an allergist for them to see what kind of rash this is-there are many quite serious autoimmune problems this could be-most serious cases of rosacea cannot be treated topicaly especialy if the area effected is large-which is why I made mention of topical preperations of weak antibiotics as not used unless the condition is basicaly on your nose and mild-If it is not rosacea you may need some oral steroids and some oral antihistamines-If you go to a doc and they are unsure what you have if they can log onto the web they can take a digital picture and e-mail it to any one of a dozen very qualified dermotology departments at major teaching hospitals in the U.S. or Europe-this has gone on so long it is a crime-If the sores are oozing let them it is suppossed to as the tissue underneath is trying to stay sterile and heal-think of it as burns and keep the dressings clean and changed often-don’t use things like vaseline or aloe until you get an accurate diagnosis. Please do this now and don’t wait-It may be something just annoying or it may be serious-let me know what the chemical name of the cream or lotion is I cannot find it on my database of cross referenced drugs. LM

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rash on my body wors than before. I was in the university clinic and she give me Elyzol 1%, but that is now the trouble. This morning I was to my GP and they are there with 3GP’s. I have show them wat this med; do to me. it eat’s my skin away. the liquid flow out of my skin, and the most where I have it ,is on my chest. My own GP ask the other 2 if they want to look at it, and both they say she in the university has it wrong. This can’t be Rosacea, so I go tomorrow to a other hopital for a blood test. He give me now Tetracycline caps 250mg because it is now inflamed, I have to take that for 14 day’s and than he will see it again, if I would not have trouble with any side effect’s than I have to come sooner. Not only my own GP was angry but also the other 2GP’s. I have told them that I had to take the last days more valium than I normel do because this is not one of my best time. They are also the meaning that it has to do something with the fillers in the med; that I have used the last 2 years. so if thid bring me nothing I wil ask my Pdoc when I see him(jan9) what I can do and if he don’t know I will. Than I go to the west of the Netherlands(Amsterdam, to my own people) and I will ask them If they want to help me. If you could see me now how my chest look it is dirthy. I need to use bandage for my clothes. Love Diana.

In dutch,sorry Diana, Willem heeft een tijd geleden een hele vreemde uitslag gehad De huidartsen hier wisten absoluut geen raad met het hele geval. Gelukkig hebben ze hem doorgestuurd naar Nijmegen,naar een zekere dokter Steensel. Deze zag bijna meteen wat het was. Een ziekte die bijna niet voorkomt,de ziekte van yesner. Hij is nu genezen. Wat ik bedoel is niet dat jij dat hebt,maar dat je een heeeeeeeeeeele goede huidarts moet zoeken. Misschien moet je inderdaad overwegen zo snel mogelijk naar Amsterdam te gaan. Zet maar druk op je huisarts. Het is helemaal nergens voor nodig dat alles zo akelig moet gaan voor jou!!!! Dag Lieverd laat van je horen  Anna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Margrove asked: I don’t know what this is-what is the chemical name on the tube???

From what I can tell, and it was hard because everything is written in Dutch, Metronidazole is the generic name for Elyzol. This has alot of info: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/metronid.htm                Metronidazole Categories: Abscess, Abdominal; Abscess, Hepatic; Abscess, Lung; Abscess, Pulmonary; Amebiasis; Endocarditis; Endometritis; Helicobacter Pylori; Infection, Bone; Infection, Gynecologic; Infection, Intra-abdominal; Infection, Joint; Infection, Local; Infection, Respiratory Tract; Infection, Skin; Meningitis; Peritonitis; Pneumonia; Prophylaxis, Perioperative; Septicemia; Sexually Transmitted Diseases; Trichomoniasis; Vaginosis, Bacterial; Pregnancy Category B; FDA Approved 1980 Feb; WHO Formulary; Orphan Drugs FDA Drug Class: Antibacterials, Miscellaneous; Antidiarrheals; Antiprotozoals; Dermatologics; Disorders, Acid/Peptic; Gastrointestinal, Miscellaneous; Tetracyclines Brand Names: Acromona; Amibazol; Amiyodazol; Anaerobex; Anerobia; Apo-Metronidazole; Arcazol; Arilin; Ariline; Asiazole; Asuzol; Camezol; Clont; Fladex; Flagenase; Flagyl; Flagyl 375; Flasinyl; Fossyol; Frotin; Fulikan; Fuzuzin; Klion; Medai; Melis; Metarsal; Metizol; Metro IV; Metrocream; Metrogel; Metrogyl; Metrolag; Metrolex; Metromidol; Metronidazole IV; Metronidazol McKesson; Metroxyn; Metroxyn 500; Metrozin; Metrozine; Metrozole; Metryl; Nalox; Nida; Nitrozol; Noritate; Norstene; Novazole; Novonidazole; Protostat; Rozagel; Rozex; Rozex Gel; Satric; Servizol; Servizole; Supplin; Takimetol; Trichex; Trichozole; Tricowas B; Tricowas-B; Trikacide; Trofonil; Vaginyl; Vagitrix; Vagyl; Zadstat (Foreign brand names outside U.S. in italics) Jackie

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Question:

Herbalife may not be this groups prefered way to lose weight, however it is mine.  I was at the point of no return when I watched a co-worker lose 30 pounds.  I agree that testimonials are not scientific data, but all I know is that I was able to lose the weight that I wanted to. The biggest problem with any product is that too often people do not want to read the labels. On the back of Herbalife’s Original Green product it does say that anyone with a heart condition should not take this product and my distributor asked me in advance if I had any type of heart disease or if it ran in my family.  At the time I said no, because it was true.  Just recently I did find out that I do have a heart condition.   It is called Nonobstuctive Hyepertrophic Cardiomyopathy.  It is very important for people with this to avoid anything that will increase their heart rate, including aerobic activities.  So, when I found this out I switched to a different product (also by Herbalife) without anything to increase the heart rate. This is not an attempt to promote the products of Herbalife.  It is meant to increase awareness about this condition.  Anyone with this condition would also want to steer clear of the ECA stack, Metabolife, Metabolift and the rest of these type products.         Dayna

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Is there also a place where I can find out how many people have died from prescribed medication that was approved?? Curious!!!!

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Okay I saw two deaths, but nothing to indicate (from what was listed here) that the product was the cause of death.  Many of the other symptoms are those reactions that the patient reports (subjective) rather than confirmed by testing (objective).  Not that I am an Herbalife fan *at all*.  Just pointing out that these listings are not as complete as one would like to see.  Cannot guarantee I won’t save it and post it when the next Herbaliar shows up, though Thanks for the info K in Cali

:STRAIGHT FROM THE FDA’S WEB SITE: : :herbalife :8977 Irrational behavior Nature’s Raw Guarana Herbalife International of :America Inc guarana, caffeine :9101 Tachycardia,

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OK, I checked it out. Some of the Herbacrap has edephra and caffeine in it. Bottom line is if your pumper is not up to par then stay away from this stuff. Been there, done that – this issue has been beat to death! BTW – did you notice the negative effect vitamin C had on some? Ya’ jes’ neva no, ayuh. — Kevin What do you call a Liberal with an I.Q. of 110? A village.

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Here’s the only Herbalife thread that we really have enjoyed                           Norma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – STRAIGHT FROM THE FDA’S WEB SITE: herbalife 8977 Irrational behavior Nature’s Raw Guarana Herbalife International of America Inc guarana, caffeine 9101 Tachycardia, difficulty breathing, dizziness and nausea Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc ma-huang, bladderwrack, yerba mate, valerian root, willow, fumitory, papain Thermojetics Beige <Herbalife International of America Inc hawthorn berry, cascara sagrada, uva-ursi, marshmallow, magnolia, pau d’arco, pfaffia, paniculata, astragalus, goldenrod, licorice, others 9564 Hepatitis Thermojetics Beige <Herbalife International of America Inc hawthorn berry, cascara, uva-ursi, alfalfa, cornsilk, parsley, marshmallow, fennel, goldenrod, licorice Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc ma-huang, bladderwrack, yerba mate, valerian root, willow, fumitory, papain Appatat <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 9791 Increased heart rate, elevated thyroid function Thermojetics <Herbalife International of America Inc ma-huang 10013 Stomach pains, collapsed veins, no feeling in right hand, and tachycardia Thermojetics Beige <Herbalife International of America Inc hawthorn berry, cascara sagrada, uva-ursi, alfalfa, cornsilk, parsley, marshmallow root, magnolia bark, pau d’arco, pfaffia paniculata, astragalus (bai-chi), fennel seed, goldenrod, licorice Thermojetics Geeen <Herbalife International of America Inc ma-huang, bladderwrack, yerba mate, valerian, willow, fumitory, papain, FD&C Blue No. 1 Lake 10079 Headaches and increased heart rate Thermojetics <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10159 Blistery rash on arms and torso Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc ma-huang, bladderwrack, yerba mate, valerian root, willow, fumitory, papain, FD&C Blue No. 1 Lake Thermojetics Beige <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10257 Prolapsed mitral valve K8 <Herbalife International of America Inc kava kava, biokawa (contains 14.3% kavain), DL-phenylalanine, L-tryptophan, alfalfa extract, ginger, hops, valerian, vervain, yerba santa 10258 Pregnancy – Norplant (2 year) failure Thermojetics <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10285 Pain in prostate, bladder, kidneys, and right testicle and epididymitis Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc ma-huang, bladderwrack, yerba mate, valerian root, willow, fumitory, papain Thermojetics Beige <Herbalife International of America Inc hawthorn berry, cascara sagrada, uva-ursi, alfalfa, cornsilk, parsley, marshmallow root, magnolia bark, pau d’arco, pfaffia paniculata, others 10292 Left sided "CP" which extended into left shoulder; felt "ultra-peppy" Thermojetics Tea <Herbalife International of America Inc camellia sinensis extract, fructose, malva sylvestris extract, cardamom extract, hibiscus extract, lemon peel extract 5 Unspecified Product,Thermojetics Mega Program <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Formulas 2 Thermojetics <Herbalife International of America Inc vitamins, minerals, calcium carbonate, magnesium oxide, potassium gluconate, iron fumarate, zinc gluconate, copper gluconate, potassium iodide, manganese gluconate, chromium GTF, chromium nicotinate, chromium picolinate Thermojetics Beige <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc balu, yerba mate exteact, bladderwrack, meadowsweet, garcing cambogia, valerian root, green tea extract, fumitory herb, honeysuckle, FD&C blue and No. 1 La ke Formules 3 Cell Activator <Herbalife International of America Inc potassium aspartate, magnesium aspartate, silica, boron, molybdenum, vanadium, gamma-oryzanol, L-glutamine, chlorophyll, pycnogenol, astragalus membranaceus, ginkgo biloba, fo-ti Siberian ginseng, shiitake mushroom, others 10325 Continual pain and high discomfort in shoulder, barely elevate his arm, lethargic Multi-vitamins <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Nature’s Raw Guarana <Herbalife International of America Inc guarana Cell Activator III <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Textra-Cal (with Calcium) <Herbalife International of America Inc calcium Nutritional Protein Drink Mix Formula 1 <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10339 Vomiting, dehydration, backaches, leg muscle spasm, neck pain Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Thermojetics Beige <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10343 Rash on leg above ankle Thermojetics <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10345 Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, headache NRG’s <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Tang Kuei Plus <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Schizandra Plus <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10352 Damaged colon and kidney problems due to blood in urine. Diagnosed as due to excessive use of laxative. Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc ma-huang, bladderwrack, yerba mate, valerian root, purple willow, fumitory herb, papain Thermojetics Beige <Herbalife International of America Inc hawthorn berry, cascara sagrada, uva-ursi, cornsilk, parsley, alfalfa, marshmallow root, magnolia bark, pau d’arco, pfaffia, paniculata, astragalus, fennel seed, goldenrod, licorice root, others 10353 Disorientation, headaches, numbness of arms and body Thermojetics <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10379 Allergic reaction – sweats, hives on eyelids (swollen shut), throat (causing closing), and mouth; also persistent diarrhea and was very weak Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc ma-huang, bladderwrack, yerba mate, valerian root, willow, fumitory, ?, FD&C Blue No. 1 Lake Thermojetics Beige <Herbalife International of America Inc hawthorn berry, cascara, uva-ursi, alfalfa, cornsilk, parsley, marshmallow root, magnolia bark, ?, others 10419 Connective tissue disorder, disoriented, clinical multiple sclerosis type symptoms, visual disturbances Thermojetics <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10437 Grand mal seizure Formula Three <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Thermojetics Beige <Herbalife International of America Inc hawthorn berry, cascara sagrada, uva-ursi, marshmallow root, magnolia bark, pau d’arco, alfalfa, cornsilk, parsley, pfaffia paniculata, astragalus (bai-chi), fennel seed, goldenrod, licorice Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc balu, yerba mate, bladderwrack, meadowsweet, garcinia cambogia, valerian root, green tea extract, fumitory herb, honeysuckle, FD&C Blue No.1 Lake Formula One <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Formula Two <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10445 Spasms of entire bile duct and symptoms of gall bladder disease, Thermojetics Yellow <Herbalife International of America Inc chromium picolinate Thermojetics Beige <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10505 Boils Cell Activator <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Cellulose <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Multivitamin Mineral Tablets <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Herbal Tablets Beige <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Nutritional Protein Drink Mix <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Thermojetics Formula 1 <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Herbal Concentrate <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Herbal Tablets Green <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10572 Micronodular cirrhosis (took 3-12 tablets/day for several years) Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc valerian root 10 other unspecified <Herbalife products <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10802 Impotence Thermon Beverage <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10903 Clammy palms, nervous, headache, and chest pain <Herbalife Green (Thermojetics Green?) <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown Original Green <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10914 Spaced out, lightheaded, shaky Beige (Thermojetics Beige?) <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown <Herbalife Green <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10926 Swollen stomach, gastrointestinal disorders Thermojetics <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10959 Increased heart rate, unable to sleep for 12 hours Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc ma-huang other unspecified <Herbalife products <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 10963 Heart palpitations, shakes, heart pounding and skipping Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc ma-huang 11095 Felt like she was on drugs, eye felt dilated, heart racing Thermojetics Green <Herbalife International of America Inc Unknown 11132 Heart

… read more »

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STRAIGHT FROM THE FDA’S WEB SITE: How about a URL so we can check it out for ourself. MM

why sure! http://www.fda.gov (use the search feature!)

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Can you post the web page’s URL? Not that I don’t believe you as I have had some interesting experiences with the stuff years ago, but it would be nice to verify your posting. Thanks! "STRAIGHT FROM THE FDA’S WEB SITE:" — Kevin Don’t take life too seriously,           We’re not getting out alive anyways…

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Question:

I had a friend who was on Prozac her entire pregnancy and had a happy, healthy baby girl (no forseen problems) and another friend who took Effexor for the first trimester of her pregnancy and just had a bouncing baby girl (no forseen problems), problem is you just don’t know what’s going to show up later, but i’ve always heard that Prozac is safe during pregnancy. Jackie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Help me!  I need the advice of someone who has been in our situation before. My wife has been battling depression for the past year & 1/2.  She grew up severely depressed, but it was only dx after a suicide attempt on Valentine’s day 1996.  She started taking Zoloft, but couldnt stand having the runs, so she had to switch to Prozac.  She is now on 40 mg Prozac. We just found out this week that she is pregnant, about three weeks along.  The Dr’s are split on whether she can continue on the Prozac. They have finally concluded that she can continue if she wants to (course they are military doctors, so they are not afraid to give the wrong advice sometimes ;-(  ) Has anyone had any experience with being on Prozac during pregnancy.  My wife and I really think that she would be better off on the meds, and don’t want her to be depressed, and possibly hurt herself or the child. We also don’t want to take any chances with our baby.  This is our first, and we’re not sure what constitutes "acceptable risk" or even what the adverse risks are.

Response:

Help me!  I need the advice of someone who has been in our situation before. My wife has been battling depression for the past year & 1/2.  She grew up severely depressed, but it was only dx after a suicide attempt on Valentine’s day 1996.  She started taking Zoloft, but couldnt stand having the runs, so she had to switch to Prozac.  She is now on 40 mg Prozac. We just found out this week that she is pregnant, about three weeks along.  The Dr’s are split on whether she can continue on the Prozac. They have finally concluded that she can continue if she wants to (course they are military doctors, so they are not afraid to give the wrong advice sometimes ;-(  ) Has anyone had any experience with being on Prozac during pregnancy.  My wife and I really think that she would be better off on the meds, and don’t want her to be depressed, and possibly hurt herself or the child. We also don’t want to take any chances with our baby.  This is our first, and we’re not sure what constitutes "acceptable risk" or even what the adverse risks are.

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Question:

I was just diagonse with crohn’s Iam taking asacol six pills a day i started my Valerie

Response:

Hello, I am a patient with UC for three years, and I have been taking Asacol recently. My doctor told me that I should take 400mg x 2 Asacols twice per day for one month and reduce to 400mg x 1 twice per day for one more month. After that, I will be in remission completely and I do not have to take any medicine. My problem is that I really want to extend remission so I can take Asacol permanently?

Response:

I don’t have UC, but I have CD.  After my surgery, my doctor put me on Asacol to prevent the CD from returning as quickly.  My maintenance dose was 2400mg per day.  During a flare, I take 3600mg per day.  It is fairly safe for longterm use.  Question your doctor about this….  Good luck! Be well- Tracy my homepage: http://home.talkcity.com/ParadiseDr/goodboie/index.html  : )  smile – it makes people wonder what you’re up to!

Response:

What is Asacol. I’ve only been given salaza (whatever) betty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t have UC, but I have CD.  After my surgery, my doctor put me on Asacol to prevent the CD from returning as quickly.  My maintenance dose was 2400mg per day.  During a flare, I take 3600mg per day.  It is fairly safe for longterm use.  Question your doctor about this….  Good luck! Be well- Tracy my homepage: http://home.talkcity.com/ParadiseDr/goodboie/index.html  : )  smile – it makes people wonder what you’re up to!

Response:

Here’s the complete scoop on what is Asacol. ASACOL