Prescription Medication Knowledgebase

News at 8.43

admin — Fri, 04 Aug 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

My guess is immediate denial. I had it the day my mom stroked out. I think your mind feels if you don’t admit it, it can’t be happening. A defense mechanism to fight the onslaught of the world. Again, just a guess. Thanks, Jackie. I’m not sure why I don’t have any feelings about it. She does tend to jump the gun on things, though this does look pretty certain. All I can say is, I have a headache, and I’m stressin’ hard for no reason. Other than that, it’s not really affecting me. Ian

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – noticed a couple masses in her lungs and said, "Come back in three months, we’ll do another scan, and see if they’ve grown." Well, not surprisingly, they grew very rapidly. Now she has to go off her blood thinners for five days and get tested on Friday. One doctor had to get the word from another doctor that it was okay to go off the blood thinners, so that he didn’t suffer the liability in case her stent got blocked. Also, she has to get a blood test the day before the lungiotomy (or whatever) to determine that her blood is thick enough (again, to avoid liability.) So, a lot of doctors worried about liability, and not alarmed enough that my mom is probably about to die. I personally have no feelings about it right now. I constantly give her a hard time about it. She gives me a hard time about something, and I say, "Oh yeah? Well you’re about to die!" and then laugh maniacally. It makes her smile. I also asked her if I could have her Klonopin when she died. But then again, I pretty much rely on her for everything. Every time I get stressed out by a problem, I call her up and ask her what to do. Plus when she’s up here, I try to get her to stay, because I need to have her around. So I’m guessing this will be pretty hard on me. She’s closer to me than anyone. She’s also saying it was probably my smoking around her that did it, and so that’s pretty hard to deal with. We won’t know until a week and a half if she does indeed have lung cancer, but it looks like she does. complained that I hadn’t seen a case manager in months and where was my check, etc., because my disability check hasn’t been cut by CMH yet, and it should have been yesterday. She called today to tell me she saw me two weeks ago and drew up a budget for the month. I was ready to file a complaint, that she was just covering her butt, lying bald-faced to me about seeing me, and counting on my bad memory … when my mom said yes, she had seen her, she had run into her in the elevator. So this counts as the first time I’ve had a *real* memory loss. I mean, I constantly forget things. People call me and I forget they called. I walk into a room and forget why I walked in. I forget if I took my meds. Etc. But this is the first time I’ve totally blanked out an entire experience. Cute feature story: I was at the Subway Subs place today and the people behind the counter were talking amongst themselves about how to beat a drug test that one of them had coming up. I chipped in with some advice, and we all had a Hallmark moment. It may not seem much to anyone else here … I mean, those of us who are addicts are recovering … but it was such a sweet moment between the three of us, to say, "We all know this secret world." Strange the things that make one smile. Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedberg) http://sundry.ws/

Ian, I’m so sorry about your Mom. Perhaps the diagnosis will be such that treatment will work quickly and this will all be behind you. And it is always possible she doesn’t have cancer at all–my grandmother had what her doctors said was breast cancer–she had all the symptoms–and it turned out to be something else. I was positive she had it. As far as memory loss goes, stress (like your mother’s health) can really do a number on your memory. I lost an entire day a couple weeks back. I kid you not–I have no idea what I did on that day or where it went. That’s fun. Let us know what the diagnosis is when you get it. In the meantime, take it easy on yourself. (((((((((((((((((((((Ian)))))))))))))))))))))) Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Keep up the good work.

Well, I’ll tell you, with all the stress I deal with every day, I’d love to have Calgon (i.e. reefer) take me away, far away, for a few years. I’m not at a place where I want to be sober, but I very wisely cut off contact with anyone who could hook me up, so that when the urge came, it couldn’t be satisfied. There’s a couple bars down the street, and a liquor store around the corner, but I don’t really like alcohol. My last using experience was a pint of cognac and a pint of kahlua, but that was just out of desperation. Alcohol doesn’t get you high. That’s why they call it getting drunk. They can’t call it getting high, because it’s not accurate. Every street drug can claim such a thing, because they actually work. None works as well as pot does, though. Maybe heroin, but I’ve tried maybe ten times to get heroin in my life, and have failed every time. God is clearly keeping me away from what would probably become my new drug of choice. And at this point, despite still wanting to use, I’m committed to staying sober, so I’ll probably never find out. You only have so many chits, and I think I used them up a long time ago. Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedberg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ian, my heart goes out to you and your Mom. This is so sad. :-( I just don’t know what to say. I hope she will be alright. {{{{{{{Ian & Mom}}}}}}} Please keep us posted when you’re up to it. Love, Di

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

{{{{{Ian and Mum}}}}} Very sad news Ian. You are both in my thoughts and wishing you all the best in dealing with this. Vanessa — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

noticed a couple masses in her lungs and said, "Come back in three months, we’ll do another scan, and see if they’ve grown." Well, not surprisingly, they grew very rapidly. Now she has to go off her blood thinners for five days and get tested on Friday. One doctor had to get the word from another doctor that it was okay to go off the blood thinners, so that he didn’t suffer the liability in case her stent got blocked. Also, she has to get a blood test the day before the lungiotomy (or whatever) to determine that her blood is thick enough (again, to avoid liability.) So, a lot of doctors worried about liability, and not alarmed enough that my mom is probably about to die.

I’m so sorry to hear this, Ian. The next time you see your mom, please give her a huge hug. kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ladies ……….. depression

admin — Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ::I’m so tired all the time, but I also have Epstein Barr so it’s really hard ::to tell what’s going on. I just had a TSH test and it was within normal ::range. I thought it would be out of range since my Thyroid is basically OK ::except for the Goiter. I’m tired, cold, depressed and have memory problems ::normal. Then there is the PCO problem that can cause all these problems too Dear Cathy, It can be so hard to figure out what disorder is causing what symptom. Do me a favor, take your temp and pulse a few times and let me know what you get. Also, Google ’subclinical hypothyroidism’. Not saying you have this, but it is something you should read up on. Feel better soon! Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~

Hi Jackie, My temp has been between 96.? and 98.4, I took it a few times over the past 2 weeks, I am normally 98.6. I will keep a journal over today and tomorrow and see what it is running and let you know. I remember my doc saying once that my pulse was faster then normal (90ish) but lately (since stopping BP meds and starting Levoxyl) it has been lower. I went to see my doc today (hubby had a routine appointment so I tagged along). I felt stupid by complaining of the same thing AGAIN but this time she took me much more seriously and recommended I see an Endocrinologist. I told her that since starting the Levoxyl these symptoms have increased. I made an appointment for September 6th. Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::My temp has been between 96.? and 98.4, I took it a few times over the past ::2 weeks, I am normally 98.6. The 96 is on the low side. I`m really glad your doctor didn`t dismiss your symptoms. The best doctor to be checked out by is an endo. Good luck and let us know how the appt goes. Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

:: I really ::don’t get hot flashes during the day because I’m cold all the time since I ::went on Levoxyl to treat a Goiter. Hmmm……if anything, you would feel warmer on levoxyl. Cathy, ask your doctor to test your thyroid. Feeling cold is a common symptom of an underactive thyroid. A thyroid that is not up to par can also cause depression. Have you been really tired lately? Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~

Hi Jackie, I’m so tired all the time, but I also have Epstein Barr so it’s really hard to tell what’s going on. I just had a TSH test and it was within normal range. I thought it would be out of range since my Thyroid is basically OK except for the Goiter. I’m tired, cold, depressed and have memory problems normal. Then there is the PCO problem that can cause all these problems too Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::I’m so tired all the time, but I also have Epstein Barr so it’s really hard ::to tell what’s going on. I just had a TSH test and it was within normal ::range. I thought it would be out of range since my Thyroid is basically OK ::except for the Goiter. I’m tired, cold, depressed and have memory problems ::normal. Then there is the PCO problem that can cause all these problems too Dear Cathy, It can be so hard to figure out what disorder is causing what symptom. Do me a favor, take your temp and pulse a few times and let me know what you get. Also, Google ’subclinical hypothyroidism’. Not saying you have this, but it is something you should read up on. Feel better soon! Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Anne, This month is really bad and I can’t help but wonder if it will keep getting worse. Yesterday I actually thought I was loosing my mind. I thought I was going to go crazy. I really think the Progesterone is the cause of these anything else. Love Cathy

Cathy, I’m sorry you are suffering so! Everyone’s experience w/ "the change" is different. I don’t know whether it’s the Lexapro or what, but my symptoms were comparatively mild, and now I seem to be actually in menopause (yay) as opposed to peri-. I have to say it’s a big relief. Most men have *no idea* how profoundly women are affected – physically and emotionally – from puberty on by the monthly fluctuations of hormones. Hope you can get some help for these symptoms. xxoo Anne

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

LOL Love Cathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOL! Cathy, I meant RitE Aid brand not RitA Aid brand…where’s my mind sometimes!!! smiles, Elise I think I’ll try that Rita, thank you Love Cathy Hi, Cathy, I haven’t had to deal with this for years but I used to take Midol (Rita Aid brand, whatever) for a day or so. I felt it gave me relief from PMS symptoms and I think when I ridded myself of those symptoms I felt better adjusted. smiles, Elise This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight. How do you one day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days. I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad. I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month. I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Wow my daughter was taking Topamax for Migraines. Thank you for all the info Gigglz Love Cathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Cathy, I’ve had it for YEARS. That’s what Gluphophage did to me, too! Bad shit! (pardon the pun) LOL! Glad you found a good Endo I’m taking an anti-seizure medication (but I don’t have epilepsy) that has a side effect of helping with insulin resistance! I’ve now lost 12 pounds It also is helping with my nerve pain…which was the main reason I started taking it. It is called Topamax. Another nice thing is that it has helped quite a bit with my anxiety as well. Go figure. Keep me posted, Cathy. I hope he takes your insurance! Love, Giggz Hi Gigglz, I didn’t know you had PCOS too. I discovered it myself apx 1998 and then found a Gyn who knew how to treat it. I took Glucophage for years but the Diarrhea was just too much for me, I couldn’t seem to adjust to the med. I just found a good Endocrinologist and want to see if he takes my Insurance. Thank you for all your info Love Cathy ((((((((((Cathy))))))))))) I’ve had PCOS for years. An Endocrinologist diagnosed it. PolyCystic Ovarian Syndrome causes us many more problems than the typical female! But you knew that already, right? :-( Many Endocrinologists will treat PCOS with a diabetic medication; either Glucophage or Actos. It helps keep your weight balanced, as PCOS sufferers have Insulin Resistance, causing weight gain. BUT, we are NOT diabetic. Please feel free to email me about this, OK? As far as the depression goes, it really helps to just BE on an anti-depressant as well. I don’t know what or if you take any meds currently. I myself am IN menopause now, and I can tell you from experience…it only gets worse! (gee, aren’t I just little Sarah Sunshine?) Bottom line is, check with your doctor. It sounds like the Progesterone isn’t working for you any more, and you need to do something else at this point!! I’m so sorry for what you are going through. I know how awful it is. Please email me any time, sweetie! Love, Gigglz This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight. How do you one day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days. I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad. I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month. I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Panic/Anxiety support group http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html If someone listens, or stretches out a hand, or whispers a kind word of encouragement, or attempts to understand a lonely person, extraordinary things begin to happen. ~Loretta Girzatlis~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::I feel a little better today Good ::You mean you can take them only certain days? I thought you had to take ::them every day. Thank you for all this info Jackie. Yes, you would only take it during the PMS period. To be honest, I don`t know anyone that has tried this. Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

LOL! Cathy, I meant RitE Aid brand not RitA Aid brand…where’s my mind sometimes!!! smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I’ll try that Rita, thank you Love Cathy Hi, Cathy, I haven’t had to deal with this for years but I used to take Midol (Rita Aid brand, whatever) for a day or so. I felt it gave me relief from PMS symptoms and I think when I ridded myself of those symptoms I felt better adjusted. smiles, Elise This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight. How do you one day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days. I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad. I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month. I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Gigglz, I didn’t know you had PCOS too. I discovered it myself apx 1998 and then found a Gyn who knew how to treat it. I took Glucophage for years but the Diarrhea was just too much for me, I couldn’t seem to adjust to the med. I just found a good Endocrinologist and want to see if he takes my Insurance. Thank you for all your info Love Cathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ((((((((((Cathy))))))))))) I’ve had PCOS for years. An Endocrinologist diagnosed it. PolyCystic Ovarian Syndrome causes us many more problems than the typical female! But you knew that already, right? :-( Many Endocrinologists will treat PCOS with a diabetic medication; either Glucophage or Actos. It helps keep your weight balanced, as PCOS sufferers have Insulin Resistance, causing weight gain. BUT, we are NOT diabetic. Please feel free to email me about this, OK? As far as the depression goes, it really helps to just BE on an anti-depressant as well. I don’t know what or if you take any meds currently. I myself am IN menopause now, and I can tell you from experience…it only gets worse! (gee, aren’t I just little Sarah Sunshine?) Bottom line is, check with your doctor. It sounds like the Progesterone isn’t working for you any more, and you need to do something else at this point!! I’m so sorry for what you are going through. I know how awful it is. Please email me any time, sweetie! Love, Gigglz This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight. How do you day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days. I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad. I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month. I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Panic/Anxiety support group http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html If someone listens, or stretches out a hand, or whispers a kind word of encouragement, or attempts to understand a lonely person, extraordinary things begin to happen. ~Loretta Girzatlis~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight. How do you day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days. I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad. I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month. I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy I didn’t deal with it well at all, so I can only tell you what not to do. But I have no idea if any of these things fall into the YMMV category. I drank too much coffee. I self-medicated with any mood-altering thing I could find. What happened? I cried all the time. I pestered my gynecologist about alternative treatments until he told me, all exasperated, "Well, if that’s what they’re doing in England, GO TO ENGLAND!" (I changed gynecologists at that point.) I wish I were kidding. I’m not. I was a basket case. Now, here’s what I would recommend: talk to doctors, listen to their advice, and follow it. Can’t hurt. If doc #1 doesn’t help, proceed to doc #2. Best of luck to you, Cathy! Love Deirdre

Hi Deidre, I know I drink too much coffee and I need to really limit it again. My Gyn is an asshole and doesn’t listen but I haven’t brought this up to him yet. I’ve complained about the night sweats for a year before he said, "If it gets too bad we’ll deal with it later" ……. sigh. He is a jerk and last week I had to wait an hour for my appointment, by the time I got in the exam finally came in the exam room I wasn’t there and he had a fit throwing my chart on the counter and complaining. I know I need to find a new Gyn but he is very knowledgeable when it comes to my specific hormonal disorder …… that’s why I’ve stayed so long. Then there is the insurance crap and finding someone who takes it. Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ::This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight. How do you one ::day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 ::days. I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s ::pretty bad. I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ::ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month. I’m also ::Perimenopausal. Dear Cathy, I`m sorry your hormones are being such a beast! Hopefully this is just an isolated ‘bad’ month. However, if it continues, talk to your doctor. You shouldn`t have to suffer like this every month. I read where you aren`t on any antidepressants and seem leery to take them? You may want to discuss with your doctor about using an SSRI during PMS time. ~*~These drugs may be taken orally every day, throughout the menstrual cycle, or just taken when premenstrual syndrome (PMS) symptoms are present in the 2 weeks before a woman’s period. How It Works These drugs, called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), improve mood by affecting the levels of a chemical messenger in the brain (neurotransmitter) called serotonin. Why It Is Used SSRIs may be used when: Depression, mood changes, and other behavioral or emotional disturbances are major symptoms of PMS. Depression becomes worse during the premenstrual phase. How Well It Works Studies have shown that the SSRIs make depression, irritability, and other behavioral and mood-related symptoms of PMS less severe. For some women, these drugs may also improve physical symptoms such as fatigue, appetite, bloating, breast pain, or insomnia. Controlled studies have shown SSRIs are effective in relieving PMS symptoms. It may be that taking SSRIs in the 2 weeks before menstrual bleeding is more effective than taking them every day. Further studies are being done.~*~ http://concernedcounseling.com/Communities/depression/treatment/antid… Some alternative treatments for PMS. Please check with your doctor first before taking any supplements. ~*~Herbs, Vitamins and Supplements for PMS What are the Treatment Options? There is no agreed upon approach for managing PMS. Conventional medical doctors may recommend the birth control pill, painkillers, diuretics or other drugs. Women often find relief using natural supplements, however, some studies have not clearly confirmed their efficacy. A trained practitioner can recommend the treatment most appropriate for a woman’s unique symptoms. Vitamin B6 This vitamin assists in the production of progesterone to counterbalance estrogen. It also promotes the synthesis of neurotransmitters in the brain such as serotonin and dopamine. Decreased levels of these neurotransmitters have been suggested in the etiology of PMS. Although vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin, it can be toxic in large doses or with moderate doses over an extended period of time. Sponsored Links Intake should not exceed 200 mg/day and should be divided into 50 mg doses spread throughout the day. Signs of toxicity include tingling, numbness, and decreased sensation in the hands or feet. Evening Primrose Oil Evening Primrose oil (EPO) is often recommended for headache, cramping, bloating, breast pain, depression, and irritability. EPO contains gamma-linolenic acid, which is involved in the metabolism of hormone-like substances called prostaglandins that regulate pain and inflammation in the body. EPO is available in capsule or oil form and should always be refrigerated. Borage oil or black currant oil have similar effects and may be substituted. If used long-term, twice as much flax seed oil should be used to maintain the optimal balance of oils. Stomach discomfort and loose stools may occur if the initial dose is too high. EPO can interact with certain drugs for schizophrenia. Magnesium The mineral magnesium appears to benefit women with cramps, mood swings, depression, fatigue, breast tenderness, and water retention. Magnesium may work by promoting dopamine production and indirectly inhibiting activity of the hormone prolactin. It is involved in prostaglandin metabolism and vitamin B6 activity. Research studies show that although women with PMS do not differ in their serum levels of magnesium, levels of magnesium inside red blood cells are significantly lower in women with PMS. Vitamin B6 is required for Mg to enter cells. Magnesium deficiency may be associated with cravings for chocolate. People with heart or kidney disease must consult a health practitioner before taking magnesium supplements. Too much magnesium can cause diarrhea and serious health problems. Calcium The mineral calcium may be beneficial for women with premenstrual cramps and moodiness. In one 3 month research study comparing calcium supplements to a placebo, women taking calcium supplements experienced fewer premenstrual symptoms in the second and third months of usage. Ratings of mood, water retention, food cravings, and pain were significantly decreased. Calcium citrate is the most easily absorbed form of supplement. If calcium citrate is not available, calcium carbonate can be used. Chaste Tree (Vitex Agnus-Castus) Chaste tree, one of the most popular herbs for premenstrual syndrome, is recommended for breast pain and tenderness, infrequent menstrual periods and ovarian cysts. This herb affects the pituitary gland by increased the production of luteinizing hormone (LH) and shifting the ratio of estrogen to progesterone in favor of progesterone. Chaste tree also lowers the secretion of the hormone prolactin possibly by binding with dopamine receptors and decreasing the output of prolactin-releasing hormone. Acupuncture In traditional Asian medicine, the liver is the organ that is most affected by stress, anger, and frustration. Stagnation of liver energy and blood by emotions, alcohol, and spicy and fatty foods can lead to breast tenderness and abdominal bloating and cramping. Acupuncture, exercise, expressing emotions, and breathing exercises can help to relieve stagnation. Dietary Suggestions Women with premenstrual syndrome may benefit from making the following dietary changes: 1. Reduce sugar and salt intake. This is especially useful for bloating and swelling of the hands and feet, breast tenderness, and dizziness. Increase foods rich in potassium, such as fish, beans, and broccoli. 2. Eat small, frequent meals to help stabilize blood sugar. 3. Eliminate caffeine, which can aggravate anxiety, depression, and breast tenderness. 4. Increase intake of fruits, vegetables, beans, nuts, seeds, and fish. 5. Avoid alcohol. 6. Decrease intake of fatty foods and red meat. http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/womenshealth/a/PMS_2.htm A book you may want to check out is Valerie Raskin`s ‘When Words Aren`t Enough"

I feel a little better today. You mean you can take them only certain days? I thought you had to take them every day. Thank you for all this info Jackie. Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I think I’ll try that Rita, thank you Love Cathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Cathy, I haven’t had to deal with this for years but I used to take Midol (Rita Aid brand, whatever) for a day or so. I felt it gave me relief from PMS symptoms and I think when I ridded myself of those symptoms I felt better adjusted. smiles, Elise This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight. How do you day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days. I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad. I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month. I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Cathy: Are you taking an antidepressant? A woman doctor I saw a few years ago, substituting for my regular doctor, advised me to take an SSRI (she suggested Lexapro, which is what I’m now taking) to counteract perimenopausal mood changes. You might discuss this with your gyn. or your pdoc. Hope you feel better. The change of life is no picnic! xxoo Anne It can be no picnic for anyone else in the area either. Those hot flashes are the pits. My wife gets them and then she is very hot and I am freezing. This has been going on now for a couple of years and show no sign of getting any better. Every change in medication used to give me periods of "prickly heat" so I have some idea of what hot flashes feel like. Prickly heat feels like being very over heated and being poked by pins all over the body at the same time. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow.

I get the night sweats and wake up all wet ……. it’s terrible. I have a good 4 years to go before my doc will consider me Menopausal. I really don’t get hot flashes during the day because I’m cold all the time since I went on Levoxyl to treat a Goiter. Love Cathy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Anne, No I’m not any Ad, my doc is very concerned with weight gain. I’ve tried a few over the years and seem to have a very difficult time with them for one reason or another. I guess I’m just looking for non med ways to deal with this since it isn’t all the time. Love Cathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Cathy: Are you taking an antidepressant? A woman doctor I saw a few years ago, substituting for my regular doctor, advised me to take an SSRI (she suggested Lexapro, which is what I’m now taking) to counteract perimenopausal mood changes. You might discuss this with your gyn. or your pdoc. Hope you feel better. The change of life is no picnic! xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight. How do you ::day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 ::days. I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s ::pretty bad. I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ::ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month. I’m also ::Perimenopausal. Dear Cathy, I`m sorry your hormones are being such a beast! Hopefully this is just an isolated ‘bad’ month. However, if it continues, talk to your doctor. You shouldn`t have to suffer like this every month. I read where you aren`t on any antidepressants and seem leery to take them? You may want to discuss with your doctor about using an SSRI during PMS time. ~*~These drugs may be taken orally every day, throughout the menstrual cycle, or just taken when premenstrual syndrome (PMS) symptoms are present in the 2 weeks before a woman’s period. How It Works These drugs, called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), improve mood by affecting the levels of a chemical messenger in the brain (neurotransmitter) called serotonin. Why It Is Used SSRIs may be used when: Depression, mood changes, and other behavioral or emotional disturbances are major symptoms of PMS. Depression becomes worse during the premenstrual phase. How Well It Works Studies have shown that the SSRIs make depression, irritability, and other behavioral and mood-related symptoms of PMS less severe. For some women, these drugs may also improve physical symptoms such as fatigue, appetite, bloating, breast pain, or insomnia. Controlled studies have shown SSRIs are effective in relieving PMS symptoms. It may be that taking SSRIs in the 2 weeks before menstrual bleeding is more effective than taking them every day. Further studies are being done.~*~ http://concernedcounseling.com/Communities/depression/treatment/antid… Some alternative treatments for PMS. Please check with your doctor first before taking any supplements. ~*~Herbs, Vitamins and Supplements for PMS What are the Treatment Options? There is no agreed upon approach for managing PMS. Conventional medical doctors may recommend the birth control pill, painkillers, diuretics or other drugs. Women often find relief using natural supplements, however, some studies have not clearly confirmed their efficacy. A trained practitioner can recommend the treatment most appropriate for a woman’s unique symptoms. Vitamin B6 This vitamin assists in the production of progesterone to counterbalance estrogen. It also promotes the synthesis of neurotransmitters in the brain such as serotonin and dopamine. Decreased levels of these neurotransmitters have been suggested in the etiology of PMS. Although vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin, it can be toxic in large doses or with moderate doses over an extended period of time. Sponsored Links Intake should not exceed 200 mg/day and should be divided into 50 mg doses spread throughout the day. Signs of toxicity include tingling, numbness, and decreased sensation in the hands or feet. Evening Primrose Oil Evening Primrose oil (EPO) is often recommended for headache, cramping, bloating, breast pain, depression, and irritability. EPO contains gamma-linolenic acid, which is involved in the metabolism of hormone-like substances called prostaglandins that regulate pain and inflammation in the body. EPO is available in capsule or oil form and should always be refrigerated. Borage oil or black currant oil have similar effects and may be substituted. If used long-term, twice as much flax seed oil should be used to maintain the optimal balance of oils. Stomach discomfort and loose stools may occur if the initial dose is too high. EPO can interact with certain drugs for schizophrenia. Magnesium The mineral magnesium appears to benefit women with cramps, mood swings, depression, fatigue, breast tenderness, and water retention. Magnesium may work by promoting dopamine production and indirectly inhibiting activity of the hormone prolactin. It is involved in prostaglandin metabolism and vitamin B6 activity. Research studies show that although women with PMS do not differ in their serum levels of magnesium, levels of magnesium inside red blood cells are significantly lower in women with PMS. Vitamin B6 is required for Mg to enter cells. Magnesium deficiency may be associated with cravings for chocolate. People with heart or kidney disease must consult a health practitioner before taking magnesium supplements. Too much magnesium can cause diarrhea and serious health problems. Calcium The mineral calcium may be beneficial for women with premenstrual cramps and moodiness. In one 3 month research study comparing calcium supplements to a placebo, women taking calcium supplements experienced fewer premenstrual symptoms in the second and third months of usage. Ratings of mood, water retention, food cravings, and pain were significantly decreased. Calcium citrate is the most easily absorbed form of supplement. If calcium citrate is not available, calcium carbonate can be used. Chaste Tree (Vitex Agnus-Castus) Chaste tree, one of the most popular herbs for premenstrual syndrome, is recommended for breast pain and tenderness, infrequent menstrual periods and ovarian cysts. This herb affects the pituitary gland by increased the production of luteinizing hormone (LH) and shifting the ratio of estrogen to progesterone in favor of progesterone. Chaste tree also lowers the secretion of the hormone prolactin possibly by binding with dopamine receptors and decreasing the output of prolactin-releasing hormone. Acupuncture In traditional Asian medicine, the liver is the organ that is most affected by stress, anger, and frustration. Stagnation of liver energy and blood by emotions, alcohol, and spicy and fatty foods can lead to breast tenderness and abdominal bloating and cramping. Acupuncture, exercise, expressing emotions, and breathing exercises can help to relieve stagnation. Dietary Suggestions Women with premenstrual syndrome may benefit from making the following dietary changes: 1. Reduce sugar and salt intake. This is especially useful for bloating and swelling of the hands and feet, breast tenderness, and dizziness. Increase foods rich in potassium, such as fish, beans, and broccoli. 2. Eat small, frequent meals to help stabilize blood sugar. 3. Eliminate caffeine, which can aggravate anxiety, depression, and breast tenderness. 4. Increase intake of fruits, vegetables, beans, nuts, seeds, and fish. 5. Avoid alcohol. 6. Decrease intake of fatty foods and red meat. http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/womenshealth/a/PMS_2.htm A book you may want to check out is Valerie Raskin`s ‘When Words Aren`t Enough"

Response:

Hi Cathy: Are you taking an antidepressant? A woman doctor I saw a few years ago, substituting for my regular doctor, advised me to take an SSRI (she suggested Lexapro, which is what I’m now taking) to counteract perimenopausal mood changes. You might discuss this with your gyn. or your pdoc. Hope you feel better. The change of life is no picnic! xxoo Anne

It can be no picnic for anyone else in the area either. Those hot flashes are the pits. My wife gets them and then she is very hot and I am freezing. This has been going on now for a couple of years and show no sign of getting any better. Every change in medication used to give me periods of "prickly heat" so I have some idea of what hot flashes feel like. Prickly heat feels like being very over heated and being poked by pins all over the body at the same time. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

This is for the ladies or anyone who can offer some insight. How do you day of the blues but this month I’ve been dealing with this monster for 7 days. I suppose I have slight depression many more days but this time it’s pretty bad. I’m also dealing with a hormonal disorder called PolyCystic ovaries and I take Progesterone a few days every month. I’m also Perimenopausal. Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Panic/Anxiety support group http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html If someone listens, or stretches out a hand, or whispers a kind word of encouragement, or attempts to understand a lonely person, extraordinary things begin to happen. ~Loretta Girzatlis~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I didn’t deal with it well at all, so I can only tell you what not to do. But I have no idea if any of these things fall into the YMMV category. I drank too much coffee. I self-medicated with any mood-altering thing I could find. What happened? I cried all the time. I pestered my gynecologist about alternative treatments until he told me, all exasperated, "Well, if that’s what they’re doing in England, GO TO ENGLAND!" (I changed gynecologists at that point.) I wish I were kidding. I’m not. I was a basket case. Now, here’s what I would recommend: talk to doctors, listen to their advice, and follow it. Can’t hurt. If doc #1 doesn’t help, proceed to doc #2. Best of luck to you, Cathy! Love Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Cathy, I haven’t had to deal with this for years but I used to take Midol (Rita Aid brand, whatever) for a day or so. I felt it gave me relief from PMS symptoms and I think when I ridded myself of those symptoms I felt better adjusted. smiles, Elise

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Info for those that can`t afford meds or don`t have health insurance….. 2/14/06

admin — Wed, 15 Feb 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

In the US, with the new prescription drug plan, the government is attempting to stop drug companies from giving free medications. My application was rejected because I’m in the US. Our government can fuck up anything. Tono – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For people who don`t have health insurance and can`t afford their meds. http://www.rxoutreach.com/en/ http://www.nami.org/Content/ContentGroups/Helpline1/Prescription_Drug… http://www.freemedicinefoundation.com/ http://www.nami.org/update/freemed.htm http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ http://www.needymeds.com/ http://www.mhsanctuary.com/add/rx.htm https://www.pparx.org/Intro.php http://www.edhayes.com/indigent.html http://www.medicationfoundation.com/ http://www.rxhope.com/ http://www.merckhelps.com/

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

LOL This morning I was watching the senate committee hearing about the FEMA response to hurricane Katrina. When beaurocracies get that big, things get messy, and communications break down. Also too many egos working against each other. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the US, with the new prescription drug plan, the government is attempting to stop drug companies from giving free medications. My application was rejected because I’m in the US. Our government can fuck up anything. LOL This morning I was watching the senate committee hearing about the FEMA response to hurricane Katrina. When beaurocracies get that big, things get messy, and communications break down. Also too many egos working against each other. Chip

I call these situations cases of CYAN…..Cover Your Ass Now….beaureaucrats are very good at it. — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the US, with the new prescription drug plan, the government is attempting to stop drug companies from giving free medications. My application was rejected because I’m in the US. Our government can fuck up anything. LOL This morning I was watching the senate committee hearing about the FEMA response to hurricane Katrina. When beaurocracies get that big, things get messy, and communications break down. Also too many egos working against each other. Chip I call these situations cases of CYAN…..Cover Your Ass Now….beaureaucrats are very good at it.

Yes, they are, Ron. And they probably spend more time doing that than their jobs. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Not only are they spending more time covering things up than doing their actual jobs, they waste resources hiring "spin doctors" to try and con us into believing the unbelievable. — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Week 20 , damn Thyroid /TSH dropped to 0.014

admin — Sat, 09 Apr 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"DrBenway"

wrote in message

news:qnug51li5rkjrf0iu7rictad9268tv9f14@4ax.com…

As far as the 70 weeks I could actually probably do them as long as it stays like it has been, but the very rapid non intentional weight loss and the TSH indicator dropping all seem to point to hyper Thyroid related problems which may ultimately make me say fuck TX (it’s not really dropping the VL as generally expected and my liver was pretty good shape to start)

It is a difficult decision to make. I was refused treatment for several years as my liver was only inflammed. Typically in the UK you had to wait for fibrosis before they would consider treating you. If you do decide to stop tx then it will be vital to keep a close eye on the liver. Incidentally do you knwo roughly how long you have had it? A difficult decision – I wish you the very best.

How are your LFTs doing? (quite the opposite of you, my LFTs have responded well while my VL not well enough)

My LFT’s are still high – 119 (week 12), though did drop a small amount from week 8. I am due another test next week. My 12 week PCR confirmed the 4 and 8 weeks results so I am happy – well as happy as you can be on these drugs. Jonathan

Response:

Wow is that when they first started you on the Synthroid? when your TSH went down or when it bounced up?

The first TSH that was high, 49 I went on 50ug/day of synthroid, then 2 weeks later 100ug/day when it hit 150. Hell if you don’t have killer headaches great, but if you do don’t hesitate to ask for something strong like Norco’s (low in Tylenol 325mg)10mg. The whole Hyper stage came on pretty fast and furious, it was about a 2-3 week of wayyyy hyper, then I crashed. They did full panels for the thyroid, including an radioactive iodine uptake test.

That’s what I’m hoping to avoid, /if they can’t prevent that from happening, I have serious doubts about continuing TX (My VL hasn’t really responded as well as hoped anyway, rather save my thyroid)

Really a good point, I guess it depends on your liver status and how you feel about the whole thing.

Antenolol hmmm vas ist dat?

It’s a class of drugs called "Beta Blockers". They slow the electrical pulses to your heart lowering your heartbeat. If your asthmatic you can’t take them.

Damn now it looks like I might begin to know what you’ve been through BTW how are you feeling now between any TX? (except the thyroid related stuff you are (still?) weaning off of ) You must have been a walking drugstore while traveling in SA (any problems carrying all the RX) Are you planning on another bout of TX in the near future or gonna sit it out for a while?

Tomorrow I’ll see my TSH numbers and go from there. If they are real low, maybe I’ll just quit taking them and see what happens. I’m at a fairly low dose right now anyway. No problems with RX in South America. In Peru you can buy valium over the counter for about 30 cents apiece. I never saw or sought any cocaine. I’m sure it is around. Did chew the coca leaf, it was different. Makes your mouth numb and your teeth green!! haha. As for future treatment, not right now. I’ll wait a couple of years and see if some better drugs come out. Hopefully something without Ribaviran. Perhaps a better class of Interferon. Or some new stuff. For now I’m taking it easy, eating good foods. I feel ok these days, the anti-d’s I started on last month are working well, I feel much better. In two years I can also take early retirement for a while and that would be a good time to redo the treatment. I can always go back to work later, but would be guaranteed a salary. — Russ Visit Alaska @ http://www.tannersacre.com "DrBenway"

wrote in message

news:qrvg51phtldhs9ge2mghalq79q7rcelruc@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:13:34 -0800, "Russ"

toss

and turn and had that "restless leg syndrome" shit. Ambien didn’t do

nothing

for sleep. My heart was 100bpm at rest, I thought the fucking thing was going to pop!! Yea I lost weight too. Make sure your doc is on top of

your > >TSH, test every couple of weeks cause I’ll bet you $20 when your thyroid > >dries up your TSH will rocket. Mine went from near zero to 50 in 3 weeks, > Wow is that when they first started you on the Synthroid? when your > TSH went down or when it bounced up? So far I haven’t noticed any > heart rate or energy increase or insomnia and as far as ADs only Sam-e > so far (damn haven’t even got a script for PKs/Norcots) I still feel > pretty much okay > >then to 149!! Don’t worry about the weight loss, as soon as your thyroid > >quits you’ll put on 10 lbs in a week!!!

That’s what I’m hoping to avoid, /if they can’t prevent that from happening, I have serious doubts about continuing TX (My VL hasn’t really responded as well as hoped anyway, rather save my thyroid)

> >It was strange, going from a hyped > >up maniac to this fat slumbering always cold tired sick blob within a month.

My BCLD put me on Atenolol (Beta Blocker) to slow my heart down and that helped calm me down, within 2-3 hours. Looking back, Xanax would have

been

good too, I was over doing the Norco’s to calm down and went through a months supply in two weeks. I went on Synthroid (levothyroxin gen) as

soon

as my TSH raised. It took till about the last two months of treatment

till

my TSH leveled off around 8.something. Around the last month of treatment

was feeling a little better, the headaches weren’t quite so bad. It takes quite a while for Synthroid to do it’s thing. I noticed while in the HYPERthyroiditis stage drugs were metabolized very quickly, like pain

meds,

in and out. 2-3 hours was all I would get out of the Norco’s. Now I’m going to assume that you will end up on Synthroid but when you

get

to the end, and your doctor thinks you have to take it for life, tell him

fuck off like I did. He wanted to increase my dose of Synthroid at the

end

of my treatment and I told him NO! I wanted to wait and see if my thyroid would start to take over. He was adamant that I would be on it for life. After hearing about Thomas and Juanita, having the same problems and now

off

of the synthroid I knew different. Good advice but I think at this stage they need to do a full thyroid panel (T3 and T4 levels) ? I’m still hoping this is just a "spike" and not yet permanent damage. Did they ever tell you might consider stopping TX to save your thyroid? was it ever an option given to you? (again I’m reacting to lab results, have yet to talk to the CRNP.) You can get a test for antibodies that attack your thyroid. That will tell you if you have the antibodies that

your

probably going to take synthroid all your life. I never had the test but

months after treatment my TSH went to 4, then to 1.4 6 months post

treatment

and I had already started reducing my dose. 8 months after tx my TSH was

2.1

@ 75 ug day, I went to 50ug/day and I will know Monday about my TSH test from Monday. Hopefully I’ll cut that dose in half and be done with it all

two months from now. And if I do get off of them I will send my BCLD a letter letting him know what a closed minded SOB he is. Getting off the Antenolol wasn’t easy either, it took two try’s. I stayed

them till about 2 months after treatment. I waited till I was off the

Zoloft

first. One thing at a time you know? You have to wean your self off of

them,

then go through a couple weeks of some heart palpations and headaches but

it > >does go away. My heart rate was a bit elevated for a month or so but > >eventually slowed down.

Antenolol hmmm vas ist dat?

> >Hold on and take it easy, that Interferon induced Thyroiditis is a bitch and

will make you twice as sick as the treatment. I hope your on anti-d’s. I

had

the worst goddam never ending headaches I ever had in my life while on

that

stuff. It would take 2-3 10mg hydrocodone just to get me off the couch to

do something, like eat. I drank water till my pee was clear and because

mouth was as dry as a desert. I did everything I could do to fight the sides. Took walks (keep some TP in your pocket and walk near the woods!! haha), ate simple to make stuff, canned soup, a slimfast with a banana blended made a good riba chaser in the morning. Herbal teas, like mint

were

soothing to the tummy. I ate a lot of ice-cream because of the mouth

sores, > >it just felt good. Sour candies were good to have as my mouth was always > >dry. I remember thinking about the Interferon drying up my thyroid, my > >saliva glands, my eyes, wondering what other endocrinology disorders were > >going on. Nasty stuff this Chemo shit. > >hang in there Ben, I know what your going through!

Damn now it looks like I might begin to know what you’ve been through BTW how are you feeling now between any TX? (except the thyroid related stuff you are (still?) weaning off of ) You must have been a walking drugstore while traveling in SA (any problems carrying all the RX) Are you planning on another bout of TX in the near future or gonna sit it out for a while?

> Feel better > DB

Response:

On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:00:46 +0000 (UTC), "rasputin" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

wrote: Hi there DrB Not sure I could be so jolly if facing 70 weeks of treatment, but it does seem that you have a good plan there. I know nothing about thyroids so will not comment. I found following your progress really helpful when facing this treatment – you are 5 weeks ahead of me. You say you are having a hard time restarting weights, if you still feel up to exercising have you thought about switching to something else. My back up plan if the weight training became too much was to try yoga. I have always fancied being more supple, who knows I may try it anyway. Good to hear from you Jonathan

Hey Jonathan (been a while, had more home system hardrive problems ) What I’ve been thinking is to just start at a lower start weight but the last time I tried (also a lot of business and personal travel) I was already down a few too many pounds (almost 10 in about 3-4 weeks, but fortunately my bf% is also dropping so at least it’s not lean mass I’m loosing) I’ll give it another shot soon and see if I can get back into regular lifting. As far as the 70 weeks I could actually probably do them as long as it stays like it has been, but the very rapid non intentional weight loss and the TSH indicator dropping all seem to point to hyper Thyroid related problems which may ultimately make me say fuck TX (it’s not really dropping the VL as generally expected and my liver was pretty good shape to start) So I’ll keep everyone posted on how they decide to proceed with TX How are your LFTs doing? (quite the opposite of you, my LFTs have responded well while my VL not well enough) DB

Response:

On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:13:34 -0800, "Russ"

wrote:

yea that was me. Right about that time frame my TSH was about zero. Sleep was fucking impossible, I was irritable, antsy, try to sleep and just toss and turn and had that "restless leg syndrome" shit. Ambien didn’t do nothing for sleep. My heart was 100bpm at rest, I thought the fucking thing was going to pop!! Yea I lost weight too. Make sure your doc is on top of your TSH, test every couple of weeks cause I’ll bet you $20 when your thyroid dries up your TSH will rocket. Mine went from near zero to 50 in 3 weeks,

Wow is that when they first started you on the Synthroid? when your TSH went down or when it bounced up? So far I haven’t noticed any heart rate or energy increase or insomnia and as far as ADs only Sam-e so far (damn haven’t even got a script for PKs/Norcots) I still feel pretty much okay

then to 149!! Don’t worry about the weight loss, as soon as your thyroid quits you’ll put on 10 lbs in a week!!!

That’s what I’m hoping to avoid, /if they can’t prevent that from happening, I have serious doubts about continuing TX (My VL hasn’t really responded as well as hoped anyway, rather save my thyroid) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

It was strange, going from a hyped up maniac to this fat slumbering always cold tired sick blob within a month. My BCLD put me on Atenolol (Beta Blocker) to slow my heart down and that helped calm me down, within 2-3 hours. Looking back, Xanax would have been good too, I was over doing the Norco’s to calm down and went through a months supply in two weeks. I went on Synthroid (levothyroxin gen) as soon as my TSH raised. It took till about the last two months of treatment till my TSH leveled off around 8.something. Around the last month of treatment I was feeling a little better, the headaches weren’t quite so bad. It takes quite a while for Synthroid to do it’s thing. I noticed while in the HYPERthyroiditis stage drugs were metabolized very quickly, like pain meds, in and out. 2-3 hours was all I would get out of the Norco’s. Now I’m going to assume that you will end up on Synthroid but when you get to the end, and your doctor thinks you have to take it for life, tell him to fuck off like I did. He wanted to increase my dose of Synthroid at the end of my treatment and I told him NO! I wanted to wait and see if my thyroid would start to take over. He was adamant that I would be on it for life. After hearing about Thomas and Juanita, having the same problems and now off of the synthroid I knew different.

Good advice but I think at this stage they need to do a full thyroid panel (T3 and T4 levels) ? I’m still hoping this is just a "spike" and not yet permanent damage. Did they ever tell you might consider stopping TX to save your thyroid? was it ever an option given to you? (again I’m reacting to lab results, have yet to talk to the CRNP.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

You can get a test for antibodies that attack your thyroid. That will tell you if you have the antibodies that your probably going to take synthroid all your life. I never had the test but 4 months after treatment my TSH went to 4, then to 1.4 6 months post treatment and I had already started reducing my dose. 8 months after tx my TSH was 2.1 @ 75 ug day, I went to 50ug/day and I will know Monday about my TSH test from Monday. Hopefully I’ll cut that dose in half and be done with it all in two months from now. And if I do get off of them I will send my BCLD a letter letting him know what a closed minded SOB he is. Getting off the Antenolol wasn’t easy either, it took two try’s. I stayed on them till about 2 months after treatment. I waited till I was off the Zoloft first. One thing at a time you know? You have to wean your self off of them, then go through a couple weeks of some heart palpations and headaches but it does go away. My heart rate was a bit elevated for a month or so but eventually slowed down.

Antenolol hmmm vas ist dat? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hold on and take it easy, that Interferon induced Thyroiditis is a bitch and will make you twice as sick as the treatment. I hope your on anti-d’s. I had the worst goddam never ending headaches I ever had in my life while on that stuff. It would take 2-3 10mg hydrocodone just to get me off the couch to go do something, like eat. I drank water till my pee was clear and because my mouth was as dry as a desert. I did everything I could do to fight the sides. Took walks (keep some TP in your pocket and walk near the woods!! haha), ate simple to make stuff, canned soup, a slimfast with a banana blended made a good riba chaser in the morning. Herbal teas, like mint were soothing to the tummy. I ate a lot of ice-cream because of the mouth sores, it just felt good. Sour candies were good to have as my mouth was always dry. I remember thinking about the Interferon drying up my thyroid, my saliva glands, my eyes, wondering what other endocrinology disorders were going on. Nasty stuff this Chemo shit. hang in there Ben, I know what your going through!

Damn now it looks like I might begin to know what you’ve been through BTW how are you feeling now between any TX? (except the thyroid related stuff you are (still?) weaning off of ) You must have been a walking drugstore while traveling in SA (any problems carrying all the RX) Are you planning on another bout of TX in the near future or gonna sit it out for a while? Feel better DB

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:40:18 GMT, "Shawn"

wrote: Hi Dr.B (who didn’t play one on t.v.)hehehe…. Just a note from my personal experience. When I went in for testing to see how far my thyroid had failed (almost undetectable in my lab work) I had to take four HIGHLY radioactive pills. Two days later my kidneys failed and I was rushed into the hospital. I firmly believe that those test pills are what caused my renal failure. None of the doctors will take responsibility for anything, so here I am crippled ,house bound and in constant pain. So much so that my BCLD had me placed under the care of the local hospice organization to ease end of life problems etc… I would highly recommend that if your nephrologist wants to go the radioactive route. Rake him/her over the coals as to the benefits of such a test and what will the treatment be (can you physically stand it and the drugs associated etc…) I learned after the test that the only option open to me was to be treated with prednisone, to which we both knew I’m deathly allergic to. So what was the point of the test I asked?? I still haven’t received an answer to that question other than a staggering radiological bill.

Hey Shawn that’s particularly scary as I started TX with a small 4 mm Kidney Stone and 6 moths later they’ve noticed a cyst (which I was told is quite common, don’t worry be happy etc) I had not realized there was even a remote or indirect link between Thyroid and Kidney. (my kidney’s often feel mildly inflamed as is) Very sorry to hear about your own experience sounds pretty damn horrible. You seem to manage to keep a great spirit, I really wish you continued strength and spirit. (and or whatever it takes for you) I’ll keep my eyes and ears open regarding any "radio" work, From what I’ve read a complete Thyroid panel should be the next step. But haven’t talked to the CRNP yet Hope he does more than ignore this. Thanks again for the warning. DB

Response:

Hi Dr.B (who didn’t play one on t.v.)hehehe…. Just a note from my personal experience. When I went in for testing to see how far my thyroid had failed (almost undetectable in my lab work) I had to take four HIGHLY radioactive pills. Two days later my kidneys failed and I was rushed into the hospital. I firmly believe that those test pills are what caused my renal failure. None of the doctors will take responsibility for anything, so here I am crippled ,house bound and in constant pain. So much so that my BCLD had me placed under the care of the local hospice organization to ease end of life problems etc… I would highly recommend that if your nephrologist wants to go the radioactive route. Rake him/her over the coals as to the benefits of such a test and what will the treatment be (can you physically stand it and the drugs associated etc…) I learned after the test that the only option open to me was to be treated with prednisone, to which we both knew I’m deathly allergic to. So what was the point of the test I asked?? I still haven’t received an answer to that question other than a staggering radiological bill. — Shawn (use the "reply feature on your browser to send a private reply via E-Mail.) "DrBenway"

wrote in message

news:mkqf51d05u2ujnrd7u95uephvpikc12t4d@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hey guys Just finished shot 21 and got the lab results from shot 20 (Far from what you would call great) My VL is still quite detectable at 1,360 IU/ml (dropping from the 1.7M, 30 weeks ago) I know the odds but my CRNP’s plan was to wait until undetectable and start 48 weeks from then (that would be 70 weeks best case now

Response:

Hi there DrB Not sure I could be so jolly if facing 70 weeks of treatment, but it does seem that you have a good plan there. I know nothing about thyroids so will not comment. I found following your progress really helpful when facing this treatment – you are 5 weeks ahead of me. You say you are having a hard time restarting weights, if you still feel up to exercising have you thought about switching to something else. My back up plan if the weight training became too much was to try yoga. I have always fancied being more supple, who knows I may try it anyway. Good to hear from you Jonathan

Response:

Hey guys Just finished shot 21 and got the lab results from shot 20 (Far from what you would call great) My VL is still quite detectable at 1,360 IU/ml (dropping from the 1.7M, 30 weeks ago) I know the odds but my CRNP’s plan was to wait until undetectable and start 48 weeks from then (that would be 70 weeks best case now

)

But I’ve been feeling weaker and joints are sore (real hard time restarting with weights) I also started dropping weight pretty fast without even trying almost 10 lbs over the last month and a half So the weight loss seems to fit the way my TSH levels have dropped My TSH was average around 2.2 for the first 12 weeks. It dropped to 2.0 in week 16 and now in week 20 it dropped to 0.014! I’ve yet to talk to my CRNP (I get a copy of my lab results sent to primary physician, so I see them before talking to the CRNP!) I remember someone also had their Thyroid go south on them around week 20 (was that you Russ? sorry guess the fog is kicking in) Anyway just trying to get the dirt on how they treat this or can I consider my Thyroid permanently fried (and all for a still detectable VL shit) Well I would appreciate anyone’s experiences here (least I’ll know what to expect) Oh BTW while I really don’t feel all that bad as a whole I do admit that after 20 weeks the individual little side effects do combine to fuck with your overall mindset. But if it didn’t get much worse I could deal with another 48 weeks of it. But not sure how this Thyroid thing will bode Be Well DrBenway

Response:

yea that was me. Right about that time frame my TSH was about zero. Sleep was fucking impossible, I was irritable, antsy, try to sleep and just toss and turn and had that "restless leg syndrome" shit. Ambien didn’t do nothing for sleep. My heart was 100bpm at rest, I thought the fucking thing was going to pop!! Yea I lost weight too. Make sure your doc is on top of your TSH, test every couple of weeks cause I’ll bet you $20 when your thyroid dries up your TSH will rocket. Mine went from near zero to 50 in 3 weeks, then to 149!! Don’t worry about the weight loss, as soon as your thyroid quits you’ll put on 10 lbs in a week!!! It was strange, going from a hyped up maniac to this fat slumbering always cold tired sick blob within a month. My BCLD put me on Atenolol (Beta Blocker) to slow my heart down and that helped calm me down, within 2-3 hours. Looking back, Xanax would have been good too, I was over doing the Norco’s to calm down and went through a months supply in two weeks. I went on Synthroid (levothyroxin gen) as soon as my TSH raised. It took till about the last two months of treatment till my TSH leveled off around 8.something. Around the last month of treatment I was feeling a little better, the headaches weren’t quite so bad. It takes quite a while for Synthroid to do it’s thing. I noticed while in the HYPERthyroiditis stage drugs were metabolized very quickly, like pain meds, in and out. 2-3 hours was all I would get out of the Norco’s. Now I’m going to assume that you will end up on Synthroid but when you get to the end, and your doctor thinks you have to take it for life, tell him to fuck off like I did. He wanted to increase my dose of Synthroid at the end of my treatment and I told him NO! I wanted to wait and see if my thyroid would start to take over. He was adamant that I would be on it for life. After hearing about Thomas and Juanita, having the same problems and now off of the synthroid I knew different. You can get a test for antibodies that attack your thyroid. That will tell you if you have the antibodies that your probably going to take synthroid all your life. I never had the test but 4 months after treatment my TSH went to 4, then to 1.4 6 months post treatment and I had already started reducing my dose. 8 months after tx my TSH was 2.1 @ 75 ug day, I went to 50ug/day and I will know Monday about my TSH test from Monday. Hopefully I’ll cut that dose in half and be done with it all in two months from now. And if I do get off of them I will send my BCLD a letter letting him know what a closed minded SOB he is. Getting off the Antenolol wasn’t easy either, it took two try’s. I stayed on them till about 2 months after treatment. I waited till I was off the Zoloft first. One thing at a time you know? You have to wean your self off of them, then go through a couple weeks of some heart palpations and headaches but it does go away. My heart rate was a bit elevated for a month or so but eventually slowed down. Hold on and take it easy, that Interferon induced Thyroiditis is a bitch and will make you twice as sick as the treatment. I hope your on anti-d’s. I had the worst goddam never ending headaches I ever had in my life while on that stuff. It would take 2-3 10mg hydrocodone just to get me off the couch to go do something, like eat. I drank water till my pee was clear and because my mouth was as dry as a desert. I did everything I could do to fight the sides. Took walks (keep some TP in your pocket and walk near the woods!! haha), ate simple to make stuff, canned soup, a slimfast with a banana blended made a good riba chaser in the morning. Herbal teas, like mint were soothing to the tummy. I ate a lot of ice-cream because of the mouth sores, it just felt good. Sour candies were good to have as my mouth was always dry. I remember thinking about the Interferon drying up my thyroid, my saliva glands, my eyes, wondering what other endocrinology disorders were going on. Nasty stuff this Chemo shit. hang in there Ben, I know what your going through! — Russ Visit Alaska @ http://www.tannersacre.com "DrBenway"

wrote in message

news:mkqf51d05u2ujnrd7u95uephvpikc12t4d@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hey guys Just finished shot 21 and got the lab results from shot 20 (Far from what you would call great) My VL is still quite detectable at 1,360 IU/ml (dropping from the 1.7M, 30 weeks ago) I know the odds but my CRNP’s plan was to wait until undetectable and start 48 weeks from then (that would be 70 weeks best case now

Response:

has anyone had any experience with Estrin-D?

admin — Tue, 01 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"Innocent One"

wrote in message

news:113cmt92k28n69f@corp.supernews.com…

12 lbs. in a month? I don’t think that is very slow – just my opinion

I agree – when losing weight, I lost 3 – 4 pounds/month. Cathy

Response:

I have gone through surgical menopause(5 years ago)due to cancer and cannot use any hrt. In the past year i have also found out that my tyroid decided to stop working. I am taking medication for the thyroid, and the doc said that i should be losing weight now that the thyroid is on track, but it hasn’t happened. i was concidering Estrin-D. Has anyone used it? What were the results?

Response:

wrote in message

news:1109695037.953089.139600@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com…

I have gone through surgical menopause(5 years ago)due to cancer and cannot use any hrt. In the past year i have also found out that my tyroid decided to stop working. I am taking medication for the thyroid, and the doc said that i should be losing weight now that the thyroid is on track, but it hasn’t happened. i was concidering Estrin-D. Has anyone used it? What were the results?

I’ve not used Estrin D, so I cannot speak to that part of your question. I do have Auto Immune Thyroid Disease ( dx in 2001) and I can tell you that getting optimized on thyroid meds is not an easy proposition. You lab work may look just dandy to the doc, but you may still not be feeling your best. For some people it takes longer than a year to sort out their optimal thyroid treatment among the choices of synthetic and natural meds. I can recommend you hop to alt.support.thyroid, or to http://thyroid.about.com/ ( if you haven’t already). Sue Western Maine

Response:

Thank you for the link Sue, I haven’t been there yet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -sue and dave wrote:

and

cannot use any hrt. In the past year i have also found out that my tyroid decided to stop working. I am taking medication for the

thyroid,

and the doc said that i should be losing weight now that the

thyroid is

on track, but it hasn’t happened. i was concidering Estrin-D. Has anyone used it? What were the results? I’ve not used Estrin D, so I cannot speak to that part of your

question.

I do have Auto Immune Thyroid Disease ( dx in 2001) and I can tell

you that

getting optimized on thyroid meds is not an easy proposition. You

lab work

may look just dandy to the doc, but you may still not be feeling

your

best. For some people it takes longer than a year to sort out their optimal thyroid treatment among the choices of synthetic and natural

meds.

I can recommend you hop to alt.support.thyroid, or to http://thyroid.about.com/ ( if you haven’t already). Sue Western Maine

Response:

I have been taking Estrin D for a month now…When you take this, when it says do not use caffeine products with it,, don’t. I take 1 pill per day (instead of the 2 to 4), because I am real sensitive to any kind of pills like this.. But after taking this for this long, Ihave had no problems with side effects.. Just the opposite.. I love Estrin D and will continue to take it.. My weight loss has been slow, but I have lost 12 lbs. but I now have the energy to work out 45 minutes a day, 5 days a week… I allow myself 1 caffeine free diet drink per day, then drink 7 pints of water per day.. I have changed my way of eating. I just feel all around better. I have not had any of my mood swings since I have been taking this,and my hot flashes have really, really, really settled down…It was a $30 investment and too me well worth it, and will continue to invest in it… I also lowered my blood pressure from 154/95 to 129/83 within one months time…. So I have had really good results from Estrin D and would recommend it. You just have to take it exactly as directed, and adjust the dosage to what your body can handle…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -luckiemom wrote:

I have been taking Estrin D for a month now…When you take this, when it says do not use caffeine products with it,, don’t. I take 1 pill per day (instead of the 2 to 4), because I am real sensitive to any kind of pills like this.. But after taking this for this long, Ihave had no problems with side effects.. Just the opposite.. I love Estrin D and will continue to take it.. My weight loss has been slow, but I have lost 12 lbs. but I now have the energy to work out 45 minutes a day, 5 days a week… I allow myself 1 caffeine free diet drink per day, then drink 7 pints of water per day.. I have changed my way of eating. I just feel all around better. I have not had any of my mood swings since I have been taking this,and my hot flashes have really, really, really settled down…It was a $30 investment and too me well worth it, and will continue to invest in it… I also lowered my blood pressure from 154/95 to 129/83 within one months time…. So I have had really good results from Estrin D and would recommend it. You just have to take it exactly as directed, and adjust the dosage to what your body can handle…

Hi, and welcome to asm! It’s nice to be feeling better, eh? But Estrin-D might not be the cause. It sounds like you took the bull by the horns, so to speak, and began changing a lot of things that could lead to feeling better. You’ve lost 12 lbs. (in a month? That’s not slow!), cut out caffeine, begun an exercise program, and changed your diet. Wow! That’s a lot of positive changes! All these taken together would probably make you feel a lot better, even if you hadn’t taken Estrin-D. And if that’s correct, you may be able to save yourself $30 a month just by keeping up your new program. BTW – congratulations! It’s not easy to make a lifestyle change. FurPaw — Born to live a life of leisure, still waiting for it to happen. To reply, unleash the dog

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -luckiemom wrote:

I have been taking Estrin D for a month now…When you take this, when it says do not use caffeine products with it,, don’t. I take 1 pill per day (instead of the 2 to 4), because I am real sensitive to any kind of pills like this.. But after taking this for this long, Ihave had no problems with side effects.. Just the opposite.. I love Estrin D and will continue to take it.. My weight loss has been slow, but I have lost 12 lbs. but I now have the energy to work out 45 minutes a day, 5 days a week… I allow myself 1 caffeine free diet drink per day, then drink 7 pints of water per day.. I have changed my way of eating. I just feel all around better. I have not had any of my mood swings since I have been taking this,and my hot flashes have really, really, really settled down…It was a $30 investment and too me well worth it, and will continue to invest in it… I also lowered my blood pressure from 154/95 to 129/83 within one months time…. So I have had really good results from Estrin D and would recommend it. You just have to take it exactly as directed, and adjust the dosage to what your body can handle…

12 lbs. in a month? I don’t think that is very slow – just my opinion

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -kathryn wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 23:24:19 -0500, "luckiemom"

when it

says do not use caffeine products with it,, don’t. Estrin D is a mixture of herbs containing caffeine, that’s why. I take 1 pill per day (instead of the 2 to 4), because I am real sensitive to any kind of

pills

like this.. But after taking this for this long, Ihave had no

problems

with side effects.. Just the opposite.. I love Estrin D and will

continue

to take it.. My weight loss has been slow, but I have lost 12 lbs.

but I

now have the energy to work out 45 minutes a day, 5 days a week… I

allow

myself 1 caffeine free diet drink per day, then drink 7 pints of

water per

day.. I have changed my way of eating. I just feel all around

better. I

have not had any of my mood swings since I have been taking this,and

hot flashes have really, really, really settled down…It was a $30 investment and too me well worth it, and will continue to invest in

it…

I also lowered my blood pressure from 154/95 to 129/83 within one

months

time…. So I have had really good results from Estrin D and would recommend it. You just have to take it exactly as directed, and

adjust the

dosage to what your body can handle. Couldn’t you change our way of eating and drink lots of water without using caffeine? Has anyone seen the new "got milk" advertisments? Seems the dariy council no longer busy hyping milk for teenagers, if they ever did. Dieting is the new action. [ Disclaimer, I don't drink milk, and am not advocating others here to try it, but I must say it makes more sense to me to try something that has some scientific evidence behind it than to use some majik mystery mixture that turns out to be mainly caffeine ] PLUS dairy as a part of the DASH diet helps blood pressure. according to another well designed scientific study. got milk has ads about

that

one too.

The DASH diet takes the protein content of dairy into account and recommends fewer servings of meat and poulry (2 or less/day), and 4-5 servings of nuts/seeds/ including dried beans/peas/lentils per week to prevent excess protein intake. This diet is heavy on whole grains, veggies. fruits. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

www.2424milk.com Saw the url in a magazine ad. Kathryn

Response:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 23:24:19 -0500, "luckiemom"

wrote:

I have been taking Estrin D for a month now…When you take this, when it says do not use caffeine products with it,, don’t.

Estrin D is a mixture of herbs containing caffeine, that’s why.

I take 1 pill per day (instead of the 2 to 4), because I am real sensitive to any kind of pills like this.. But after taking this for this long, Ihave had no problems with side effects.. Just the opposite.. I love Estrin D and will continue to take it.. My weight loss has been slow, but I have lost 12 lbs. but I now have the energy to work out 45 minutes a day, 5 days a week… I allow myself 1 caffeine free diet drink per day, then drink 7 pints of water per day.. I have changed my way of eating. I just feel all around better. I have not had any of my mood swings since I have been taking this,and my hot flashes have really, really, really settled down…It was a $30 investment and too me well worth it, and will continue to invest in it… I also lowered my blood pressure from 154/95 to 129/83 within one months time…. So I have had really good results from Estrin D and would recommend it. You just have to take it exactly as directed, and adjust the dosage to what your body can handle.

Couldn’t you change our way of eating and drink lots of water without using caffeine? Has anyone seen the new "got milk" advertisments? Seems the dariy council no longer busy hyping milk for teenagers, if they ever did. Dieting is the new action. [ Disclaimer, I don't drink milk, and am not advocating others here to try it, but I must say it makes more sense to me to try something that has some scientific evidence behind it than to use some majik mystery mixture that turns out to be mainly caffeine ] PLUS dairy as a part of the DASH diet helps blood pressure. according to another well designed scientific study. got milk has ads about that one too. www.2424milk.com Saw the url in a magazine ad. Kathryn

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -FurPaw wrote:

luckiemom wrote: I have been taking Estrin D for a month now…When you take this, when it says do not use caffeine products with it,, don’t. I take 1 pill per day (instead of the 2 to 4), because I am real sensitive to any kind of pills like this.. But after taking this for this long, Ihave had no problems with side effects.. Just the opposite.. I love Estrin D and will continue to take it.. My weight loss has been slow, but I have lost 12 lbs. but I now have the energy to work out 45 minutes a day, 5 days a week… I allow myself 1 caffeine free diet drink per day, then drink 7 pints of water per day.. I have changed my way of eating. I just feel all around better. I have not had any of my mood swings since I have been taking this,and my hot flashes have really, really, really settled down…It was a $30 investment and too me well worth it, and will continue to invest in it… I also lowered my blood pressure from 154/95 to 129/83 within one months time…. So I have had really good results from Estrin D and would recommend it. You just have to take it exactly as directed, and adjust the dosage to what your body can handle… Hi, and welcome to asm! It’s nice to be feeling better, eh? But Estrin-D might not be the cause. It sounds like you took the bull by the horns, so to speak, and began changing a lot of things that could lead to feeling better. You’ve lost 12 lbs. (in a month? That’s not slow!), cut out caffeine, begun an exercise program, and changed your diet. Wow! That’s a lot of positive changes! All these taken together would probably make you feel a lot better, even if you hadn’t taken Estrin-D. And if that’s correct, you may be able to save yourself $30 a month just by keeping up your new program. BTW – congratulations! It’s not easy to make a lifestyle change. FurPaw

Whoops, I guess you didn’t cut out caffeine completely – only from your diet. Estrin-D is full of ingredients that contain caffeine and caffeine-like chemicals. See this article: http://www.ultimatefatburner.com/estrin-d-review.html FurPaw — Born to live a life of leisure, still waiting for it to happen. To reply, unleash the dog

Response:

Marijuana ?

admin — Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Begining an adventure I will never believe at age 58 … Well … I

hope it will add to my

total life experiences …..

dove, that’s not much older than the age my oldest sister was the first time she smoked pot! she was dx’d with rheumatoid arthritis when she was in her 50s. her doc had told her she wasn’t a good candidate for some anti-rheumatic — is that correct? — drug that was much in the news at the time, so she did the vioxx/celebrex/mobic thing, used a TENS unit, had physical therapy, and her doc finally put her on Lortabs — i believe it’s either an opiate or a synth opiate. she and ihad talked about medical MJ before, but only to the extent that she knew i used it. my oldest sister was married at 17, a mom at 18, married to a career air force guy, living on bases in various countries and bringing up 3 kids — she just kind of skipped over the 60s/70s dope stuff. my sis didn’t liike the lortabs because of side FX. she’d talked with her doc about medpot, and the oc didn’t seem to be oppsed, but she figured it wasn’t something she’d ever try, because she didn’t know where to get some. then one day her husband’s neice showed up with a baggie…LOL. i found out the whole story whenshe came to visit us a year or so ago. she’d asked the neice how much it cost because she wanted to reimburse her; the neice refused; my sister told her she might want to get some of her own someday, so how much did it cost??? the neice finally told her she’d paid $50 for what she had. i hav no idea how much or what kind it was, but my sister — of course, LOL! — slipped the neice 50 bucks, and after our visit, i found that she’d left a $50 bill on the table wrapped up in a note that said ‘for medicine.’ the funny part — because she’d never been a recreational user, she didn’t know much about price — she got it into her head that ‘pot costs 50 dollars.’ ;-

the part that may be pertinent to your sitch — my sister said it worked aces for pain, the docs weaned her off the lortabs, and even tho she was a lifelong non-user, absolutely no psycho-freakout stuff happened when she began using medpot. i wish you the best and hope it works as well for you! :-

rose

Response:

an ounce of leaves crushed and dried to look like spices do –

Response:

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 06:18:00 -0500, Yon…@webtv.net (Dove 1) wrote:

an ounce of leaves crushed and dried to look like spices do –

Then it probably won’t contain any parts of the plant that will produce a high. Remember only the female buds or their extracts will get you stoned. $110 an once for just the leaves is too expensive.

Response:

st…@tropheus.demon.co.uk wrote:

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 06:18:00 -0500, Yon…@webtv.net (Dove 1) wrote: an ounce of leaves crushed and dried to look like spices do – Then it probably won’t contain any parts of the plant that will produce a high. Remember only the female buds or their extracts will get you stoned. $110 an once for just the leaves is too expensive.

steve, i’m wondering — since dove has said that she’s COMPLETELY inexperienced with marijuana, perhaps there’s some confusion about ‘leaves’ vs. buds/flowers. $110 for an oz. of just leaf would be insanely expensive! the ‘crushed and dried to look like spices do’ part — dove, do you just mean MJ that looks like oregano or something when it’s in a baggie? if so, it probably IS crushed up buds, rather than leaves. when you grow your own plants, there are leaves — they look pretty much like the leaves [leafs? brain-fart this morning] of any flowering plant. i mean they have a distincitve appearance, but when looking at the plant itself, they stick off te branches like the leaves of other plants do. the buds, if the plant is not harvested, would eventually flower. male plants have really pretty flowers — if pot was legal across the board, i’d keep some ‘boyz’ around just because i like the way they look. ;-

just crossed my mind that people who have never used pot before, ever, may not understand that the plants have buds and leaves, but just think of it as ‘marijuana,’ and not understand that the unfamiliar terms they hear others use are not necessarily interchangeable. rose

Response:

Oy – now there are male and female plants — and oils — and

blossoms —

I think I am not up to doing this properly !

dove, i think it’s possible that many of us didn’t/don’t realize HOW inexperienced you were with cannabis when we first started talking to you. once a person gets the hang of it, it’s really NOT all that hard to learn to grow one’s own, but folks need to learn their ABCs before they’re ready to start reading. yes, there are male and female plants — just as there are with all plants that reproduce ’sexually.’ the female plants are the ones that produce the cannabis that gives you both the high, and the medical benefits. there are hermaphrodite pot plants as well — if they fertilize themselves, all the seeds will be female. it can get extremely complicated, but i don’t reckon you need to concern yourself with all the specifics — it could end up something like trying to do calculus problems before you’ve learned basic addition and subtraction. just think of flowering plants generally — they’ve got stems with leaves sticking off them, and they’ve also got flowers. the terms ‘buds’ and ‘flowers’ are used fairly interchangeably when talking about growing medical MJ, but they’ll be the buds harvested before the plant has actually flowered. the leaves and stems will contain small amounts of THC, but the highest concentration is in the buds.

I am very glad to hear that it takes only 1 or 2 puffs for the spasms

to subside — while i tend to smoke the bud, rather than the leaf as steve does, my experience with speed of efficacy is identical. there’s no waiting time — i start to feel the muscles relaxing and the spasms easing up almost immediately. it’s much easier for me to tell if i’m going to need more or not than it has ever been taking a pill, waiting for the effects to kick in, taking another pill or half-pill, etc.

If you were buying already dried – how do you know that this is a

reputable source

?

me personally, i buy from 2 people — my former compassionate care provider [prop 215, california-specific term, i believe -- the volunteer who helped me back in the old days], and a personal friend of the family who i’ve known and trusted for a long time. if i was going to buy some from someone whose opinion and intentions i didn’t trust absolutely — it would be proper pot smokers’ etiquette for that person to roll a joint and let me have a taste. obviously, neither of those situations applies to you, though! in your case, maybe start by thinking of the people in your life who you DO trust, and explain your situation to them. if they realize you’re not looking to turn stoner late in life, but rather seeking symptomatic relief, i doubt they’d look down on you for that. in my experience, most people DO know folks who smoke, or who at least know where to get smoke, even if they don’t realize it. maybe someone could steer you toward a reputable source. i’d also advise getting in touch with a local medical MJ group, but since i don’t personally know anyone in florida, or anything about your local law enforcement’s attitudes, it’s possible that could bring more attention than you want. excuse me for a momentary mini-rant — dammit, you’re exactly the kind of person medical use laws were designed for, and it BITES that your area doesn’t have any! if someone already knows a lot about pot and knows 10 different people they could call who are likely to have some, there’s not much of a problem, but someone who has NEVER smoked it and has no idea where to get it needs people who really do want to HELP, not take advantage of naivete. sadly, there are all too many of those latter kinds of people in the world. /mini-rant

How much of this ounce would I need to use at one time ? About how

much

would be necessary for 1 month – each night so I could SLEEP ? It

does help you

sleep right ???

it sure helps ME sleep!! while everyone’s physiology is different, considering the effects you’re interested in and the fact that you’re not a recreational user, it seems like an oz. is likely to last you a good long time. that being the case, you’ll also want to make sure it’s sealed up tightly in a ziplock baggie and stored someplace out of direct sunlight so it will stay fresh — LOL, but i am being serious. all the best, rose

Response:

Oh No — Rob – ! I want to sleep – really sleep — cartoons and unusual movies are for people who are awake — My body is so exhausted — but my mind will not shut off — THIS is why I am wanting to know about everyones thoughts and experiences with the medical use of mj — make the pain stop for a bit — and relax me enough to SLEEP — But I will look online for bongs ??? Will I be arrested for that in Florida ??? Wow – it really is me writing about being arrested !!!! Amazing what can happen in a lifetime ! ….. dove

Response:

Begining an adventure I will never believe at age 58 … Well … I hope it will add to my total life experiences ….. Enough has been taken away …. thanks for responding … Stay safe .. be well … dove

Response:

"DCI"
wrote in message

news:nnvi11l7e1gpiltfluqsffeq89854bvhqd@4ax.com…

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:42:29 -0500, Yon…@webtv.net (Dove 1) wrote: Just what is STONED ? And – what is a bong ?and is this a beter way than tea ? which I had just decided would work best to try – and than read your post again …. LOL … Starting to wish I had had a more exciting youth ! 58 is a strange age to be learning about MJ !!! Dove, At 58, you are beginning a learning adventure you’ll never believe. Donn

Dove, buy a cartoon to watch for your first try. You know, if money is a factor I think smoking may be less expensive as I think making tea requires more, if I remember right. Rent a Cheech and Chong move! Enjoy. :*) A bong is a water pipe that filters the smoke and cools it down so it doesnt burn your lungs. I wouldnt have a clue how to go about getting one though. Ill bet a million bucks that stores here in Oregon sell them online. This is a BIG pot-state. Rob

Response:

Just what is STONED ? And – what is a bong ?and is this a beter way than tea ? which I had just decided would work best to try – and than read your post again …. LOL … Starting to wish I had had a more exciting youth ! 58 is a strange age to be learning about MJ !!!

Response:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:42:29 -0500, Yon…@webtv.net (Dove 1) wrote:

Just what is STONED ? And – what is a bong ?and is this a beter way than tea ? which I had just decided would work best to try – and than read your post again …. LOL … Starting to wish I had had a more exciting youth ! 58 is a strange age to be learning about MJ !!!

Dove, At 58, you are beginning a learning adventure you’ll never believe. Donn

Response:

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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 06:18:00 -0500, Yon…@webtv.net (Dove 1) wrote: an ounce of leaves crushed and dried to look like spices do – Then it probably won’t contain any parts of the plant that will produce a high. Remember only the female buds or their extracts will get you stoned. $110 an once for just the leaves is too expensive.

Dont know about the price, but leaves off of male plants can certainly get you stoned. Why do you say it cant? I understand that experienced pot smokers like to smoke female buds, because of the higher THC content, but that doesnt mean the leaves of male plants dont have it. Rob

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"Dove 1"
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Oy – now there are male and female plants — and oils — and blossoms — I think I am not up to doing this properly ! I am very glad to hear that it takes only 1 or 2 puffs for the spasms to subside — so – do you grow your own plants — or buy from someone else ??? If you were buying already dried – how do you know that this is a reputable source ? I have been told that here – to purchase from a repudable person ( who is selling for recreational use ) it will cost $110.00 an ounce — I am — on a limited income – How much of this ounce would I need to use at one time ? About how much would be necessary for 1 month – each night so I could SLEEP ? It does help you sleep right ??? Thanks for your help Steve … Be safe and well … Dove

Dove I think an ounce is a lot. A LOT! Id bet that would last a non-stoner 6 months. As Steve said, if you only take a couple of drags through a pipe, or a bong, each night, an ounce would last you forever. When I did it Im pretty sure it was for a gram. ($10.00) Theres 20 or 30… (cant recall at the moment) in an ounce. A gram lasted me a long time. But Im the ultimate light-weight in regard to pot. Most would use more I think. But still, an ounce should last you a long, long, time. Make sure you tell NOBODY you are using it. NOBODY. (you could ask your doc if hes willling to discuss your "hypothetical" use of it, off the record.) Just so he knows why you may no longer be needing some other med you might be taking. Just getting a bit stoned makes you feel better. That alone is good enough for me in regard to legalizing it for medical use. Hmmm… Its been a while, but Im thinking I may get some, lol. Rob

Response:

st…@tropheus.demon.co.uk wrote:

My experience is that one or two puffs on a pipe full of cannabis

leaf

cures muscle spasms almost instantly. Dried, young leaf is very mild and does not produce a high. Only the buds from female flowering plants, resin or oil will produce a turn on but dried leaf from either the male or female plant cures spasms. I don’t mix it with the legal but highly addictive tobacco. Fresh leaf makes a pleasant tea. Steve

steve, is it leaf from some kind of special medical-use strain that you’re talking about, or just plain old leaf? when i smoked leaf, it did nothing for my spasms — only FX I noticed were my lips got slightly numb and i had a headache. consuming it in baked goods was slightly better, but again, didn’t cure the spasms. i’m not doubting you or anything — wish i had the same leaf you’ve had is all! rose

Response:

On 18 Feb 2005 14:05:47 -0800, "rose"

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

st…@tropheus.demon.co.uk wrote: My experience is that one or two puffs on a pipe full of cannabis leaf cures muscle spasms almost instantly. Dried, young leaf is very mild and does not produce a high. Only the buds from female flowering plants, resin or oil will produce a turn on but dried leaf from either the male or female plant cures spasms. I don’t mix it with the legal but highly addictive tobacco. Fresh leaf makes a pleasant tea. Steve steve, is it leaf from some kind of special medical-use strain that you’re talking about, or just plain old leaf?

Just plain leaf but I only use the newly growing small ones. It may make a difference. I’ve never tried the older leaf.

when i smoked leaf, it did nothing for my spasms — only FX I noticed were my lips got slightly numb and i had a headache. consuming it in baked goods was slightly better, but again, didn’t cure the spasms.

I’m talking about 100% leaf in a pipe – no tobacco.

i’m not doubting you or anything — wish i had the same leaf you’ve had is all!

Another possibility is the theory that my wife has. She reckons it’s all in my mind and I could smoke anything to get relief from spasms! Steve

Response:

Oy – now there are male and female plants — and oils — and blossoms — I think I am not up to doing this properly ! I am very glad to hear that it takes only 1 or 2 puffs for the spasms to subside — so – do you grow your own plants — or buy from someone else ??? If you were buying already dried – how do you know that this is a reputable source ? I have been told that here – to purchase from a repudable person ( who is selling for recreational use ) it will cost $110.00 an ounce — I am — on a limited income – How much of this ounce would I need to use at one time ? About how much would be necessary for 1 month – each night so I could SLEEP ? It does help you sleep right ??? Thanks for your help Steve … Be safe and well … Dove

Response:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:56:04 -0500, Yon…@webtv.net (Dove 1) wrote:

Oy – now there are male and female plants — and oils — and blossoms — I think I am not up to doing this properly ! I am very glad to hear that it takes only 1 or 2 puffs for the spasms to subside — so – do you grow your own plants — or buy from someone else ??? If you were buying already dried – how do you know that this is a reputable source ?

I have grown my own but these days it’s easier to let someone else do it. I know it is a reputable source by just looking at the leaves. If I was buying resin or oil then it would be more difficult to test the quality.

I have been told that here – to purchase from a repudable person ( who is selling for recreational use ) it will cost $110.00 an ounce — I am — on a limited income – How much of this ounce would I need to use at one time ? About how much would be necessary for 1 month – each night so I could SLEEP ? It does help you sleep right ???

An ounce of what? An ounce is quite a lot but the preparation is different for different types.

Response:

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 02:26:42 -0500, Yon…@webtv.net (Dove 1) wrote:

Has anyone here tried marijuana for symptom control ? If you have – what were the effects ? Positive and negetive ? What form did you use ? Which was most and least effective ? Have you continued to use it ? I am 58 yr old female – trying to manage symptoms with less Rxs daily – I do not want to break laws or get "high" This truely is a serious post …. Thank you

My experience is that one or two puffs on a pipe full of cannabis leaf cures muscle spasms almost instantly. Dried, young leaf is very mild and does not produce a high. Only the buds from female flowering plants, resin or oil will produce a turn on but dried leaf from either the male or female plant cures spasms. I don’t mix it with the legal but highly addictive tobacco. Fresh leaf makes a pleasant tea. Steve

Response:

Oy Vey ! I was so NOT happy to read your very kind mail Rose Now I understand why my Dr was so strange – when he is usually very open to my suggestions — We have been using Rxs to simply treat each symptom as they come and go – In the begining 3yrs ago – he did not know me yet — so was very cautious about prescribing things for me to use "as needed" — but now he knows that I am VERY cautious — even to the point where HE increased my vicodin before my surgery a month ago – the pain was causing my muscle spasms to be much worse — than I could not sleep — than YOU Know — the whole cycle goes nuts – I will go to the site you gave me — do you know if even the pill form of cannibus is not legal in Florida ? ( I think it has a different name ) I do not want to go to jail – I do want something that will ease my symptoms and pain — Do you know which States have better laws ? OK – Thanks – look forward to hearing back from you — but if I am being a pain – do not feel obligated Rose — Be safe and well …. Dove

Response:

hi abdi, yup, even in states with a medical use provision, that means it can be used as a DEFENSE, but not necessarily that you won’t be arrested in the first place, even if your county has a program and you’re in complete compliance with all the regs. the way the state provision is viewed by law enforcement in each specific county — cali has 58 separae counties IIRC — will liikely play a big role in how the first responders treat medical users. in pre-prop-215 days, the law made a distinction between misdemeanor and felony cultivation — 5 plants or fewer was a misdemeanor; any more than 6 was a felony. after the counties got rolling — hee, no pun intended! — with their own medical use provisions [each county comes up with its own rules re the number of plants one is allowed, the method of joining the medical use program, etc.], the ‘generic’ rules were tightened up, so that now growing even one plant is a felony — no longer such a thing as misdemeanor cultivation now that prop 215 supposedly took care of the medical users. the city of san diego came up with its own program, no. of plants/amount of ‘dried marijuana’ permitted, acceptable medical conditions, a system with plastic ID cards and registration numbers, etc. since i live within the COUNTY of S.D., but not the city limits, i’m ineligible for the CITY program. the county had money set aside with which they’d PLANNED to establish their own medical use provisions, but when the county went broke [after the city went broke, which was after the state went broke!!], the money was used for something else and the county program put on hold. because california ‘generic’ drug law is lenient regarding cannabis, ie simple possession of 1 oz. or less is an infraction, not even a misdemeanor, no mandated jail time at all, $100 fine — very similar to a traffic ticket — and because cultivation laws have been tightened, and because the county has no program whose rules I CAN abide by, it really makes more sense for me to just buy my MEDICAL marijuana, an oz. at a time, from any old pot dealer, than to grow my own, which was the major point of prop 215 in the first place. it’s a conundrum, and i’d much prefer to just do what i’d done previously — grow my 5 little ‘girls’ myself and start on 5 new ones post-harvest — but i’d be in much more potential trouble doing it that way, than just buying weed from a dealer. i think that’s SAD, but OTOH, I also realize how fortunate i am compared to some folks who have to deal with draconian drug laws and no medical use exemptions. if your state doesn’t have medical use provisions, and you’ve got the energy and cognitive ability [generic 'you'], lobby for them! there’s no reason any sensible person should be unable to separate medical users from stoners, even if said person is extremely anti-drug in general. i think it’s generally recognized that a person taking morphine for intractable pain due to brain cancer [for instance] is very different from a junkie on the street slamming heroin. why shouldn’t it be generally recognized and acknowledged that the same is true for medical MJ? I’ve heard some supposed explanations, but they’ve never made sense to me. i’d like to see medical use provisions in every county in every state, but it takes effort to get the legislation proposed, and even more effort to get it passed. i’m glad to have been physcally and mentally healthy enough to have volunteered and helped get the prop 215 message across. if your state has no medical exemption, and if you’re [again, generic 'you'] able to even write a letter, then you can be a volunteer for such legislation. there are probably groups with that aim already in place in your area — check them out first, if they seem legit, contact them and ask what you can do. i realize ‘grass-roots’ makes a funny little pun, but i feel very strongly about this issue. we, the people, have a responsibility to get the word out — well ok, IMHO we do. rose

Response:

Thanks for your replies – )) Actually I now have more questions than answers — First off – I know little about this whole issue — I have serious cognitive disabilities — I have been hearing that studies were done – they seemed to show good results and less side effects — I live in N-E-Central Florida — I would like to grow the plants myself — I have heard that it is expensive to purchase — I do not – as Abdi said – want to go to jail – The tea idea sounds like I could benefit from it and control the dosage most easily I am also worried about interactions with medicines I must take – synthroid – premarin -……. My doctor would not discuss any of this – I read each of your posts – It sounds like this would at least be worth trying if only for muscle spasm pain —- I hope you all will have the patience to help me work through this since you are all more knowledgable than I — Thanks )) ….. Dove

Response:

dove, yikes, florida. no medical use provision, and you can get 5 years in prison and a $5,000 fine for growing even ONE plant, AND y’all have got mandatory minimums out there. you’re in a BAD area for medical use, and i’m very sorry about that — but i can see why your doc isn’t even willing to discuss any of it with you! :{ there is a yahoo group that you might want to take a look at — http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/MSMarijuana/ – as you can probably guess from the title, it deals specifically with M.S. and medical marijuana. it’s a very good place to get information. i’m not sure what i would do in your situation, to be honest. florida drug laws have even misdemeanor possession of less than 20 grams of marijuana showing sentences of a year in jail/$1,000 fine. it’s definitely a factor that needs to be weighed, the benefits you’d likely receive from medical use vs. the jail time and fines you’d likely receive for medical use in a state with no medical use provision. and it flat sucks! but it’s best to be realistic. i know there are groups in florida dedicated to getting medical use recognized, but i don’t know anyone from those groups personally, and am unfamiliar with them — maybe someone reading who’s closer to the area could give you some feedback about local groups. in the early prop 215 days, i learned a lot from working with ‘grow-ops,’ cooperative efforts to assist people with no experience in growing, but when the ‘grow-ops’ were the first to go down, the ‘medpot movement’ became somewhat fragmentary, with ‘authorized sellers’ who charged ripoff prices that no street dealer would dare to charge, people wanting to get licensed as compassionate providers simply so they could grow their own weed and have a defense — the kind of person who’s willing to name every name he knows because he was never interested in helping sick people to begin with, but only trying to play the system for his own benefit — in an area without a well-established medical MJ movement, there are various things that can pop up and cause trouble, and it’s always best to have someone who knows the area and the folks involved who can give you tips on what to watch out for, who wants to help vs. who just wants to take your money, that kind of thing. i’m more than happy to help you work through specifics re growing and such, but it would probably be wiser to take things slow, because of your area and the risks involved…and lso because, as you admit you’re inexperienced, i’d hate to see profiteering jerks take advantage of you or others in your situation. all the best, rose

Response:

I am jealous of you. I did not take any medication when I had the chance and now I regret it, but alas a joint would be good when I cannot move any limbs, but here in the Empire State, a wanna be fascist (Rockefeller) has past some draconian laws. Essentially they can release murderers, rapers, mother rapers, father rapers, but if you have been found with a joint they will send you to hell. Go figure. — Quaecomque sunt vera —- "rose"
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Dove 1 wrote: Has anyone here tried marijuana for symptom control ? If you have – what were the effects ? Positive and negetive ? What form did you use ? Which was most and least effective ? Have you continued to use it ? I am 58 yr old female – trying to manage symptoms with less Rxs daily – I do not want to break laws or get "high" This truely is a serious post …. Thank you hi dove1, yes, i use medical MJ for symptom control, and have been regularly since the passage of california’s prop 215. as with other meds, it does affect some of us differently, but i’ll give you my personal experiences. in addition to spasticity, i have very painful muscle spasms, and hands-down, there’s NOTHING I’ve tried that works better for the spasms. it works to an extent with spasticity — i’d say approximately the same as valium or zanaflex, the anti-spasticity drugs the neuro prescribes. also in my own case, weight loss has been a problem, so i use MJ for appetite stimulation and as an anti-nausea agent, again very effective, but i realize that the munchies are not a desireable side effect for everyone! in my case it’s effective to a degree with neuropathic pain, but i must admit this is the one area where i’ve found prescription drugs to work better — i generally do a ‘combination treatment’ thing there, using cannabis as an adjunct. it relaxes me and helps with my quality of sleep — i don’t wake up with a ’stoned hangover’ feeling when using marijuana, while i DO wake up with that ‘hung over’ feeling when using prescription meds. in my case, it also has mood elevating effects, one of the things i like the best about medpot is that it does cover many symptoms all by itself, rather than having a pill for each separate one. i know some folks have trouble with paranoia — i actually analyzed this, LOL, and found that my ‘paranoia’ is the kind that stems from heightened senses — you hear a car door slam up the street, it sounds like it’s right out front, you jump and wonder who the hell is out there — look out the window, and see that the neighbor 4 doors down has just got home. once i realized this, it no longer ‘bothered’ me. for some people, possibly those predisposed in some way, the paranoia is much worse — unfortunately, i don’t really know any way to predict how it ight affect any given person — if you’ve had problems with paranoia and such previously, i would guess adding MJ would increase those feelings. i do use smoking as my primary method, because it seems much easier to ‘titrate’ the doses with inhaled cannabis. my lungs are ok, but i definitely understand many folks might not want to risk lung damage. i’ve also brewed it up into a traditional indian [hindu] drink called ‘bhang’ [it is the word that we get the word 'bong' from, LOL]. i have a recipe if you’re interested, but it makes use of an entire ounce of marijuana. i’ve also baked it in food — among stoners, it’s common to use the leaf to make brownies and such, but when i’ve made them, i used the buds rather than the leaves — BECAUSE I’m not looking for just a high, but for pain and spasticity relief, and the buds have a higher THC content than the leaf. the bad side effects, the only one for me is that smoking pot gets me high. since i’m retired and have no need to be regularly ‘on,’ it’s not such a problem for me, tho if i was still working, most likely i’d be using pot much less frequently and counting on less-effective prescription meds that don’t make me feel/act quite as goofy! i imagine the munchies would be an unwanted side effect for many, although in my case, it’s a benefit. if you live in an area with a medical use provision, there are folks on the NG who could help you with tips on how to grow your own plants, all you’ve gotta do is ask! :- i’m a 41-year-old woman who’s had M.S. for 15 years. i didn’t even start using medpot till the prop 215 days — i was very much a ‘citizen’ at the time — and i’ve continued using it since. the benefits i receive from it — THE best muscle relaxer i’ve ever had, including prescription pills, and minus the tolerance and addiction issues. spasticity control — to a degree, and easier to find the line between too much spasticity and not enough spasticity when using cannabis than when using prescription pills. sleep aid — works very well, but if fatigue is a big issue for you, be prepared to get sleepy after a certain point. mood elevator — for me, yes. appetite stimulant — oh yeah, LOL, and as i said before, a good thing for me, but probably an unwanted side effect for many. ;- anti-nausea — again, THE best i’ve ever found, including prescription compazine, whch i had after a case of food poisoning. the bad parts — smoking causes lung damage. this can be gotten around by using brewed or baked cannabis. i made some delicious chocolate chip canna-cookies, using a recipe from ‘the joy of cooking’ and just adding crumbled-up buds to the mix. smoking often makes me feel lazy and/or sleepy. if one is buying the weed, the strength will be variable — growing one’s own is my preference anyway. it gives me the munchies — i actually DO try to eat healthy stuff when i’m munching. for some folks whose paranoia gets kicked up in a way that goes beyond the heightened senses, it could be a problem, so use care if you’re inexperienced. that’s all i can think of off the top — if you have further questions or want more details, feel free to ask! not everyone in the NG is a medical user, but there are plenty of folks who are, and who are willing to share the knowledge. rose

Response:

Has anyone here tried marijuana for symptom control ? If you have – what were the effects ? Positive and negetive ? What form did you use ? Which was most and least effective ? Have you continued to use it ? I am 58 yr old female – trying to manage symptoms with less Rxs daily – I do not want to break laws or get "high" This truely is a serious post …. Thank you

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"Dove 1"
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news:26081-42144732-86@storefull-3354.bay.webtv.net…

Has anyone here tried marijuana for symptom control ? If you have – what were the effects ? Positive and negetive ? What form did you use ? Which was most and least effective ? Have you continued to use it ? I am 58 yr old female – trying to manage symptoms with less Rxs daily – I do not want to break laws or get "high" This truely is a serious post …. Thank you

Well, Ive tried it. Smoking it is just too strong for me. It hits me to strongly. But I think Im becoming more accustomed to it as I had some a couple of months ago and I didnt get sick. However, I have used it for my MS in the past. Knowing I couldnt smoke it, I experimented. Eventually ending up with me grinding some up in a coffee been grinder. Take a cup and a half of water, pour it into a pan, dump in a little ground up pot, bring to a boil, boil for at least 5 minutes, Poor the water into a coffee mug, place your favorite tea bag or two in there. Let it cool and then drink. Its as simple as that. The chems are activated at much higher temps than boiling, so you get a different effect by boiling and drinking it. Not nearly as harsh, it hits you slower, and lasts longer. I wouldnt even say it stones you, but it still made life fun when I did it. LOL. It never once made me sick, in fact, I always found it to be a relaxing and pleasent experience. In regard to coordination effects… after drinking some I felt particularly giddy and went to the park with Stef’s identical twin sisters boyfriend, a friend who was a linebacker at Willamete Universtiy, and promptly kicked his ass in a one-on-one basketball game. And I hadnt touched a basketball in 5 years. Probably could never have done that straight. LOL I think twice, well meaning friends gave me brownies, and THOSE really stone ya. But they didnt make me sick, it felt heavily buzzy, but not unpleasently so. Much different than smoking and making tea. I recomend tea. But people who are experienced smokers may not even notice such effects, but I sure can. Sorry for yammering. Oh yeah, when you get to the bottom of the cup, swirl it around and drink the ground up pot. If you dont do that youde lose much, if not most, of the desired effect. It works like a charm. Rob

Response:

Dove 1 wrote:

Has anyone here tried marijuana for symptom control ? If you have – what were the effects ? Positive and negetive ? What form did you use ? Which was most and least effective ? Have you continued to use it ? I am 58 yr old female – trying to manage symptoms with less Rxs daily

-

I do not want to break laws or get "high" This truely is a serious post …. Thank you

hi dove1, yes, i use medical MJ for symptom control, and have been regularly since the passage of california’s prop 215. as with other meds, it does affect some of us differently, but i’ll give you my personal experiences. in addition to spasticity, i have very painful muscle spasms, and hands-down, there’s NOTHING I’ve tried that works better for the spasms. it works to an extent with spasticity — i’d say approximately the same as valium or zanaflex, the anti-spasticity drugs the neuro prescribes. also in my own case, weight loss has been a problem, so i use MJ for appetite stimulation and as an anti-nausea agent, again very effective, but i realize that the munchies are not a desireable side effect for everyone! in my case it’s effective to a degree with neuropathic pain, but i must admit this is the one area where i’ve found prescription drugs to work better — i generally do a ‘combination treatment’ thing there, using cannabis as an adjunct. it relaxes me and helps with my quality of sleep — i don’t wake up with a ’stoned hangover’ feeling when using marijuana, while i DO wake up with that ‘hung over’ feeling when using prescription meds. in my case, it also has mood elevating effects, one of the things i like the best about medpot is that it does cover many symptoms all by itself, rather than having a pill for each separate one. i know some folks have trouble with paranoia — i actually analyzed this, LOL, and found that my ‘paranoia’ is the kind that stems from heightened senses — you hear a car door slam up the street, it sounds like it’s right out front, you jump and wonder who the hell is out there — look out the window, and see that the neighbor 4 doors down has just got home. once i realized this, it no longer ‘bothered’ me. for some people, possibly those predisposed in some way, the paranoia is much worse — unfortunately, i don’t really know any way to predict how it ight affect any given person — if you’ve had problems with paranoia and such previously, i would guess adding MJ would increase those feelings. i do use smoking as my primary method, because it seems much easier to ‘titrate’ the doses with inhaled cannabis. my lungs are ok, but i definitely understand many folks might not want to risk lung damage. i’ve also brewed it up into a traditional indian [hindu] drink called ‘bhang’ [it is the word that we get the word 'bong' from, LOL]. i have a recipe if you’re interested, but it makes use of an entire ounce of marijuana. i’ve also baked it in food — among stoners, it’s common to use the leaf to make brownies and such, but when i’ve made them, i used the buds rather than the leaves — BECAUSE I’m not looking for just a high, but for pain and spasticity relief, and the buds have a higher THC content than the leaf. the bad side effects, the only one for me is that smoking pot gets me high. since i’m retired and have no need to be regularly ‘on,’ it’s not such a problem for me, tho if i was still working, most likely i’d be using pot much less frequently and counting on less-effective prescription meds that don’t make me feel/act quite as goofy! i imagine the munchies would be an unwanted side effect for many, although in my case, it’s a benefit. if you live in an area with a medical use provision, there are folks on the NG who could help you with tips on how to grow your own plants, all you’ve gotta do is ask! :-

i’m a 41-year-old woman who’s had M.S. for 15 years. i didn’t even start using medpot till the prop 215 days — i was very much a ‘citizen’ at the time — and i’ve continued using it since. the benefits i receive from it — THE best muscle relaxer i’ve ever had, including prescription pills, and minus the tolerance and addiction issues. spasticity control — to a degree, and easier to find the line between too much spasticity and not enough spasticity when using cannabis than when using prescription pills. sleep aid — works very well, but if fatigue is a big issue for you, be prepared to get sleepy after a certain point. mood elevator — for me, yes. appetite stimulant — oh yeah, LOL, and as i said before, a good thing for me, but probably an unwanted side effect for many. ;-

anti-nausea —

again, THE best i’ve ever found, including prescription compazine, whch i had after a case of food poisoning. the bad parts — smoking causes lung damage. this can be gotten around by using brewed or baked cannabis. i made some delicious chocolate chip canna-cookies, using a recipe from ‘the joy of cooking’ and just adding crumbled-up buds to the mix. smoking often makes me feel lazy and/or sleepy. if one is buying the weed, the strength will be variable — growing one’s own is my preference anyway. it gives me the munchies — i actually DO try to eat healthy stuff when i’m munching. for some folks whose paranoia gets kicked up in a way that goes beyond the heightened senses, it could be a problem, so use care if you’re inexperienced. that’s all i can think of off the top — if you have further questions or want more details, feel free to ask! not everyone in the NG is a medical user, but there are plenty of folks who are, and who are willing to share the knowledge. rose

Response:

colitis and ibuprofin

admin — Sat, 05 Feb 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I was diagnosed with collagenous colitis last April. Nsaids are a no-no. I also have very bad osteoarthritis so have to have pain meds. I take Darvocet every six hrs. sometimes I supplement it with aspirin. Every once in a while if I know I’m going to be on my feet a lot I will take ibuprofen–but rarely. Vioxx, Celebrex,etc. worked for me but gave me such bad insomnia that I couldn’t tolerate it. Guess I was lucky before the fact.

Response:

My dr has always told me NO ibuprofen for my CD. No Aleve, Advil, etc. I can use coated (enteric) aspirin in moderation, tylenol, etc. I have always been told the others are a defintie No for IBD. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the replies everyone. I did ask my GI dr about Celebrex he said def. no. I lowered the advil quantity I was taking and it seems to have helped my strained neck, but still not perfect. UC is not perfect either, but then again neither is this world A friend mentioned a muscle relaxant may help, going to call dr tomorrow and ask I think I’m lucky as until the crazy intake of ibuprofin I was taking(600mg/6 hours) I never noticed a problem with Aspirin or Alleve, taken in mild amounts. Will have to look into Lodine as well Joel Thanks Jeff but I just got the renewal for the Celebrex and it should be in the mail. It works and I am not worried about them yet anyways. UM MOM Susan you may want to read up on nsaid’s. they are not all created equal. some actually have fewer gi side effects than the cox 2. jeffy I take Celebrex and just ordered a 90 day supply because they are talking about removing both Celebrex and Bextra. I had surgery two weeks ago and had to stop the Celebrex and my vitamin a week before the surgery and I don’t want to be without. I can’t take the nsaids. You do need an RX for this. UM MOM Susan what do people take as anti-inflamitory meds? Seems ibuprofin is causing a flare up with me but i pulled a neck muscle earlier this week and acetominaphine does nothing for me. thanks Joel

Response:

Thanks for the replies everyone. I did ask my GI dr about Celebrex he said def. no. I lowered the advil quantity I was taking and it seems to have helped my strained neck, but still not perfect. UC is not perfect either, but then again neither is this world A friend mentioned a muscle relaxant may help, going to call dr tomorrow and ask I think I’m lucky as until the crazy intake of ibuprofin I was taking(600mg/6 hours) I never noticed a problem with Aspirin or Alleve, taken in mild amounts. Will have to look into Lodine as well Joel

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Jeff but I just got the renewal for the Celebrex and it should be in the mail. It works and I am not worried about them yet anyways. UM MOM Susan you may want to read up on nsaid’s. they are not all created equal. some actually have fewer gi side effects than the cox 2. jeffy I take Celebrex and just ordered a 90 day supply because they are talking about removing both Celebrex and Bextra. I had surgery two weeks ago and had to stop the Celebrex and my vitamin a week before the surgery and I don’t want to be without. I can’t take the nsaids. You do need an RX for this. UM MOM Susan what do people take as anti-inflamitory meds? Seems ibuprofin is causing a flare up with me but i pulled a neck muscle earlier this week and acetominaphine does nothing for me. thanks Joel

Response:

I know that my joints hurt alot since being off the vioxx .. I have been on Celebrex in the past also Peace and Love Maryjo

Response:

Thanks Jeff but I just got the renewal for the Celebrex and it should be in the mail. It works and I am not worried about them yet anyways. UM MOM Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you may want to read up on nsaid’s. they are not all created equal. some actually have fewer gi side effects than the cox 2. jeffy I take Celebrex and just ordered a 90 day supply because they are talking about removing both Celebrex and Bextra. I had surgery two weeks ago and had to stop the Celebrex and my vitamin a week before the surgery and I don’t want to be without. I can’t take the nsaids. You do need an RX for this. UM MOM Susan what do people take as anti-inflamitory meds? Seems ibuprofin is causing a flare up with me but i pulled a neck muscle earlier this week and acetominaphine does nothing for me. thanks Joel

Response:

I’ll take that as a "no". As I said and the links I posted show, the study Merck cited was at 25 mg / day not 50 mg and everyone was at risk not just some small sub populations. You can always do the online research yourself to back up your claims and not ask someone who disagrees with your claims to do the work. www.pubmed.com is a good place to start and I recommend using Scirus search too (http://www.scirus.com/srsapp/advanced/index.jsp). Google is your friend too especially if you learn some of the advanced search features. BTW: Many colleges/universities are required to limit online access to journals due to the contracts. Sadly this is actually reducing public access to scientific journals as few places are carrying the published versions any more. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The information was a combination of what I read in the newspapers following the story and in talks with my GI, who said the findings were at 50 mg used daily and above, which was considered a normal dose. You can always access your local college or university to locate the actual scientific publications or they may be available through online access with your local public library. Can you post links to any scientific research to support this claim? I’ve been following this for personal reasons and what I found was that anyone on it (either a high dose or a low dose for a long time) was at risk. Anyone, not just an "at risk" sub population.

Response:

The information was a combination of what I read in the newspapers following the story and in talks with my GI, who said the findings were at 50 mg used daily and above, which was considered a normal dose. You can always access your local college or university to locate the actual scientific publications or they may be available through online access with your local public library. mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have decided, and I continue to use the Vioxx I have left since it is safer for me than any alternative. Your decision, I hope it works well for you. Remember, the danger is to a small subset of a subset of the population. It can adversely effect those w/ a heart condition, a group into which I do not fit, and of those, only 5% are negatively effected. Can you post links to any scientific research to support this claim? I’ve been following this for personal reasons and what I found was that anyone on it (either a high dose or a low dose for a long time) was at risk. Anyone, not just an "at risk" sub population. I would hardly call this widespread danger to the general population. All of this, btw, based on a daily dosage of 50 mg or higher. The studies I saw said 25 mg as the high dose not 50 mg. IIRC one said even low doses (12.5 mg) caused the problem if it was used over a long time (1.5 years). See: http://www.vioxx.com/rofecoxib/vioxx/consumer/index.jsp "The trial, which is being stopped, was designed to evaluate the efficacy of VIOXX 25 mg in preventing recurrence of colorectal polyps in patients with a history of colorectal adenomas. In this study, there was an increased relative risk for confirmed cardiovascular events, such as heart attack and stroke, beginning after 18 months of treatment in the patients taking VIOXX compared to those taking placebo." And this is from Merck, others say the situation is worse. A decent meta-analysis can be found at The Lancet: "Risk of cardiovascular events and rofecoxib: cumulative meta-analysis" (require a "free" registration but you can use bugmenot.com) PDF: http://pdf.thelancet.com/pdfdownload?uid=llan.364.9450.primary_resear… (you can use the search tool at The Lancet.com to get the HTML version). The summary is at the end of this post. The dosage used for me has always been the lowest possible, 12.5 mg daily. At other times, I’ve taken the drug once or twice a month using a 25 mg dosage. None of this puts me, or anyone like me, in any danger. Er… No known risk, not no risk. From what I’ve read you’re correct, low dose with infrequent use hasn’t shown any problem yet. I am angry that I will have no alternative when my supply runs out. There is no reason my doctor and I should not be able to evaluate the benefits and dangers to make a choice. There are reasons, you just don’t like them. Merck would not take a money making drug off the market, take a hit on their stock price and expose themselves to lawsuits just for a lark. Instead, some overconcerned yahoos have made no choice possible. How much are you willing to bet they can take NASIDS or sulfur drugs? In my case I am concerned as my wife used Vioxx regularly. I can’t take NSAIDS and Celebrex did not work for me either (no sulfa reaction just made me sicker like Vioxx). You lose your bet. — Luke Summary (Risk of cardiovascular events and rofecoxib: cumulative meta-analysis) Background The cyclo-oxygenase 2 inhibitor rofecoxib was recently withdrawn because of cardiovascular adverse effects. An increased risk of myocardial infarction had been observed in 2000 in the Vioxx Gastrointestinal Outcomes Research study (VIGOR), but was attributed to cardioprotection of naproxen rather than a cardiotoxic effect of rofecoxib. We used standard and cumulative random-effects meta-analyses of randomised controlled trials and observational studies to establish whether robust evidence on the adverse effects of rofecoxib was available before September, 2004. Methods We searched bibliographic databases and relevant files of the US Food and Drug Administration. We included all randomised controlled trials in patients with chronic musculoskeletal disorders that compared rofecoxib with other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) or placebo, and cohort and case-control studies of cardiovascular risk and naproxen. Myocardial infarction was the primary endpoint. Findings We identified 18 randomised controlled trials and 11 observational studies. By the end of 2000 (52 myocardial infarctions, 20742 patients) the relative risk from randomised controlled trials was 2

Would love to hear your opinion on this…

admin — Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I don’t think so! they knew way in advance that these drugs had potential hazards and that kept it a secret. I think millions of Americans are being over prescribed of meds, instead of trying to fix the medical problems with natural treatments and diet, but it is easier to prescribe the medicine than do that. "Amelia Yaussy"

wrote in message news:JvudnXKUD-KIMm7cRVn-tw@wideopenwest.com…

I just read my husband the headline and he said, "I’m sure Pfizer and Merck did all they could to make sure it was prescribed correctly, didn’t they?" Vioxx, Celebrex Were Overprescribed, Study Says CHICAGO (Reuters) – The two popular painkillers Vioxx and Celebrex, heavily marketed as "super-aspirin," were prescribed for millions of patients who did not need them or should not have taken them, researchers said on Friday. http://tinyurl.com/3mern

Response:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:21:28 GMT, "Dave Wilcher"

wrote:

Amelia Yaussy wrote: "Natural treatments" are pretty lucrative, too. Ever see all the MLMs pushing herbals and vitamins? How about those Enzyte and other ads on TV that rival the big pharmaceutical company commercials? I’m sure that’s true! I almost never watch TV, so I haven’t seen that ad. Oh, wait – is that the one where the woman is smiling like an idiot because her husband is taking this stuff and turned into a grinning phallic symbol? I guess I have seen that. dave

Are you referring to Smiling Bob? Yes, that’s his name. What really makes me laugh is when they tell you that if ‘it’ lasts more than four hours to get medical help. Do I call a doctor or his nurse?

Response:

"Doris"

wrote in message

news:eb_Id.7$Uq1.4388@news.abs.net… I don’t think so! they knew way in advance that these drugs had potential hazards and that kept it a secret. I think millions of Americans are being over prescribed of meds, instead of trying to fix the medical problems with natural treatments and diet, but it is easier to prescribe the medicine than do that. Not to mention more profitable! dave — "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." – Martin Luther King

Response:

El Lippo wrote:

Are you referring to Smiling Bob? Yes, that’s his name. What really makes me laugh is when they tell you that if ‘it’ lasts more than four hours to get medical help. Do I call a doctor or his nurse?

Whichever floats your boat, so to speak. dave — "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." – Martin Luther King

Response:

Amelia Yaussy wrote:

"Natural treatments" are pretty lucrative, too. Ever see all the MLMs pushing herbals and vitamins? How about those Enzyte and other ads on TV that rival the big pharmaceutical company commercials?

I’m sure that’s true! I almost never watch TV, so I haven’t seen that ad. Oh, wait – is that the one where the woman is smiling like an idiot because her husband is taking this stuff and turned into a grinning phallic symbol? I guess I have seen that. dave — "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." – Martin Luther King

Response:

"Natural treatments" are pretty lucrative, too. Ever see all the MLMs pushing herbals and vitamins? How about those Enzyte and other ads on TV that rival the big pharmaceutical company commercials? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dave Wilcher wrote:

"Doris"

Response:

I am FAT

admin — Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Cannot give up smoking and lose weight. The weight comes off first then maybe I will consider giving up smoking sometime in the future. It is not on my list of priorities. You say you gained 7 pounds in one week. Most of that was water. every pound of fat contains 3500 calories. You did not eat 25000 extra calories in a week! Water balance is the bane of weight loss. A little gain of water here and there will affect your weight in the short term. Graph your weight over a month and you should be able to cancel out water balance errors using a running average.

How can I reduce the amount of water being collected and stored?

Response:

Beck, Cannot give up smoking and lose weight. The weight comes off first then maybe I will consider giving up smoking sometime in the future. It is not on my list of priorities.

I actually agree with you, but do try to cut down a bit if you can because it won’t help you feel good. You have to be ready to quit and no one else can tell you when that is. But I hope it’s on your list of "Things to do" at some point – as a person with a chronic chest condition I can definitely say breathing is precious and shouldn’t be taken for granted. You say you gained 7 pounds in one week. Most of that was water. every pound of fat contains 3500 calories. You did not eat 25000 extra calories in a week! Water balance is the bane of weight loss. A little gain of water here and there will affect your weight in the short term. Graph your weight over a month and you should be able to cancel out water balance errors using a running average. How can I reduce the amount of water being collected and stored?

Drinking plenty of water stops the body holding on to it, ironically. And drastically cutting down on your sodium (salt and MSG) intake will help a lot. But the rest of it is a medical problem that needs checking out, I’m afraid. — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 168 lbs

Response:

you have to want it bad enough to wait for it, I have taken 118 weeks to lose 95 pounds, and I have lost 2 in the last 19 weeks, is that fast, NO is it significant YES, and what I would have gained over these weeks, added to my starting weight, is well, scary, Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lets start with the basics. I have an underactive thyroid and am taking tablets for this. My weight is increasing in leaps and bounds even though I should be losing a bit while on tablets. This is not an excuse for my overweightedness, but its not helping. I eat around 1500 calories a day (female) and weight 17 stone. I have put on half a stone in ONE week. I never exercise. I sit on the computer most of the day or play videogames. I am lazy. I am being brutally honest here as no-one else will do it for me. Now I have tried dieting and it does not work. I went on holiday and exercised every single day for 14 days (walked about 3 miles a day) and did not lose a single pound. I do not drink alcohol but I do smoke between 10-15 a day (roll ups). Thats about all I can say really. I desperately need to lose weight somehow, and bar amputating my body, I do not know how. I have considered weightwatchers, but dont like the group thing. besides, when I do diet and see no change in my weight, you can see why I lose the will for exercising and stuff. Advice please? for a desperate obese

Response:

by sorting the medical issues you will be well on the road to the rest, and if you use this time to begin eating healthier you will have a jump on the day when your medical issues are fixed, good luck, Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have a slow thyroid you are not lazy, you are lethargic and unwell. Totally different. If exercise caused me breathlessness and pain I wouldn’t do it either! Ah but thats the thing, I am both :-) Thirdly, it could be impossible to actually lose weight until your meds are sorted out and working so your initial goal should be to avoid gaining any more than you have to and to start eating much more healthily. So that’s plenty of fruit and veg, complex carbs and protein foods, and cutting out the fat as much as possible; three regular meals a day plus a couple of healthy snacks; always eat breakfast (even if you don’t want to) and drink minimum 8 glasses of water or clear fluids a day (on top of tea, coffee, milk, chocolate and alcohol). Thanks for the diet advice, I shall take notice and do it wisely. Do book an appointment to see a dietitian if you can, as losing weight while hypothyroid is quite difficult and may need professional advice. I’ve never had a slow thyroid, but I am a chronic asthmatic and often feel as you do: lethargic and breathless. It is hard to do, but you have to accept your limitations and work within them, and concentrate on health rather than weight per se. Yes I agree, I do need to get health sorted out first, just that when I see how much I weigh, I feel its imperitive to also sorted out the dieting and exercise aswell.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Read through what you have written again. You are being very hard on yourself and not giving yourself any credit. But you are not allowing yourself to succeed either. I, and nearly everyone in this group knows how you feel, because we have all be overwight and we are all at various points on our weightloss journey. Reading between the lines, and please forgive me if I have got it wrong, you seem to be saying "I’m a hopeless case, nothing I do works, what is the point in trying I’ll only fail". But nothing is stopping you except yourself. I know nothing about under active thyroids and I know that taking medication sometimes makes things more difficult, but you can still get round this. Check with your doctor to see what they reccomend. Believe in yourself. You can do this. Everyone in this group will give you all the support you need. With regards to WW, I was never a meetings person either, and was dreading my first one. I suppose it depends very much on your leader but my meeting is now the highlight of my week. Nobody will make you say anything if you don’t want to go. If you really can’t face it there is online WW and this group to keep you on the straight and narrow. I wish you all the very best and hope that you can be a little kinder to yourself. You deserve it.

I am hard on myself but feel I need to be. Nobody else is going to do it for me. I have to face the reality that barring the medical problem, I am not doing enough to help myself. So things need to change.

Response:

You’re probably thinking that making yourself feel bad will be the spur you need, but psychology really doesn’t work like that! (Incidentally, I can recommend Dr Phil’s book on weightloss – he’s got the psychology aspects cracked). I remember reading a while back about an experiment: in the first group, slimmers were given pictures of themselves digitally enhanced to make themselves look even fatter. They had to put these pictures on the fridge. The second group had pictures digitally enhanced to make themselves look like they were going to look at their target weights. This group also had to put the picture on the fridge. At the end of the experiment the two groups were compared and the second group had lost *radically* more than the first. The first group, by comparison, had either lost a lot less weight, gained weight or dropped out of the experiment altogether! There are numerous examples, but basically, if you want to make yourself do anything and if you want to change your behaviour (ie eating) for the better, the real spur has got to be positive. You’ve got to see what you want and go for it, being aware that studies have also shown that most women aspire to be a weight and size 10% under what it should be. If you continue to believe that you aren’t worth it, that you’re fat, lazy and greedy, why would you look after yourself? Why would it matter if you were slim and fit? You have to start believing that inside you is a slim, fit person struggling to get out and that you can do it. So start with baby steps, clear out your refrigerator and write yourself a menu for next week. Good luck! — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 168 lbs

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First you must get your medical condition under control, and get some advice from the doctor on what type of diet might work for you. Second you must give up smoking. While this won’t help weightloss (in fact you might put some weight on) it will help your life expectancy and general fitness. Fat non-smokers have better health than thin smokers. Cannot give up smoking and lose weight. The weight comes off first then maybe I will consider giving up smoking sometime in the future. It is not on my list of priorities. You say you gained 7 pounds in one week. Most of that was water. every pound of fat contains 3500 calories. You did not eat 25000 extra calories in a week! Water balance is the bane of weight loss. A little gain of water here and there will affect your weight in the short term. Graph your weight over a month and you should be able to cancel out water balance errors using a running average. How can I reduce the amount of water being collected and stored?

You don’t need to drink excessive amounts of water – that can be bad for you too! But you o need to drink enough. 2 lt/4 pints per day in addition to any drinks containing sugar and/or caffeine is the recommended amount. Also cut down on salty foods and exercise regularly. And watch out for the hormonal swings: they can really sabotage you! I used to put on 5" round the waist at that time! If the thyroid meds are causing you to bloat, you may need a diuretic, but talk to the medical team about that, don’t just buy them off the shelf without checking. — Kate XXXXXX Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

Response:

" HI there, thanks for the advice. I am certain the root of my problem is lack of exercise.

no its because you eat too much you greedy cow!

Response:

Read through what you have written again. You are being very hard on yourself and not giving yourself any credit. But you are not allowing yourself to succeed either. I, and nearly everyone in this group knows how you feel, because we have all be overwight and we are all at various points on our weightloss journey. Reading between the lines, and please forgive me if I have got it wrong, you seem to be saying "I’m a hopeless case, nothing I do works, what is the point in trying I’ll only fail". But nothing is stopping you except yourself. I know nothing about under active thyroids and I know that taking medication sometimes makes things more difficult, but you can still get round this. Check with your doctor to see what they reccomend. Believe in yourself. You can do this. Everyone in this group will give you all the support you need. With regards to WW, I was never a meetings person either, and was dreading my first one. I suppose it depends very much on your leader but my meeting is now the highlight of my week. Nobody will make you say anything if you don’t want to go. If you really can’t face it there is online WW and this group to keep you on the straight and narrow. I wish you all the very best and hope that you can be a little kinder to yourself. You deserve it. Hazell

Response:

Hi Beck. The first thing you should do is check with your doctor – you might not be getting enough medicine for your thyroid. I don’t like exercise either, but that seems to be something I must do to lose weight. I am on a beta blocker with also slows down my metabolism, so I must exercise to speed it up. I suggest you try & start some also – you can do some even sitting in the chair – move your body to music whenever you listen to some – get up and dance a few steps to it – all will help. I also park the car further away for the stores which helps. Wish you luck. Elaine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lets start with the basics. I have an underactive thyroid and am taking tablets for this. My weight is increasing in leaps and bounds even though I should be losing a bit while on tablets. This is not an excuse for my overweightedness, but its not helping. I eat around 1500 calories a day (female) and weight 17 stone. I have put on half a stone in ONE week. I never exercise. I sit on the computer most of the day or play videogames. I am lazy. I am being brutally honest here as no-one else will do it for me. Now I have tried dieting and it does not work. I went on holiday and exercised every single day for 14 days (walked about 3 miles a day) and did not lose a single pound. I do not drink alcohol but I do smoke between 10-15 a day (roll ups). Thats about all I can say really. I desperately need to lose weight somehow, and bar amputating my body, I do not know how. I have considered weightwatchers, but dont like the group thing. besides, when I do diet and see no change in my weight, you can see why I lose the will for exercising and stuff. Advice please? for a desperate obese

Response:

Cannot give up smoking and lose weight. The weight comes off first then maybe I will consider giving up smoking sometime in the future. It is not on my list of priorities.

Giving up smoking HAS to be on your list of priorities Long Term. The health benefits cannot be under-estimated. No – you can’t do both at once – but there’s always a good reason not to give up – believe me I’ve been there more than once…….you can always find an excuse but at some point you have to buckle down and do it……. Oops – a tad harsh…….ah well…… — krys UK 157/???/126 Started March 1st 2001 GOAL August 16th 2001 and July 22nd 2004 …going nowhere fast…

Response:

Beck, Cannot give up smoking and lose weight. The weight comes off first then maybe I will consider giving up smoking sometime in the future. It is not on my list of priorities. I actually agree with you, but do try to cut down a bit if you can because it won’t help you feel good. You have to be ready to quit and no one else can tell you when that is. But I hope it’s on your list of "Things to do" at some point – as a person with a chronic chest condition I can definitely say breathing is precious and shouldn’t be taken for granted.

Its only 10-15 rollups a day. Most of them are not smoked fully. So probably equates to around 7 normal ciggies.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cannot give up smoking and lose weight. The weight comes off first then maybe I will consider giving up smoking sometime in the future. It is not on my list of priorities. Giving up smoking HAS to be on your list of priorities Long Term. The health benefits cannot be under-estimated. No – you can’t do both at once – but there’s always a good reason not to give up – believe me I’ve been there more than once…….you can always find an excuse but at some point you have to buckle down and do it……. Oops – a tad harsh…….ah well……

Indeed it is important, but not an important factor for me at the moment. I do not smoke alot and to me, my weight is more important. Being obese is more of a problem than being a smoker as far as I am concerned. One day I might give up, but only when my mind is ready

Response:

If you have a slow thyroid you are not lazy, you are lethargic and unwell. Totally different. If exercise caused me breathlessness and pain I wouldn’t do it either!

Ah but thats the thing, I am both :-) Thirdly, it could be impossible to actually lose weight until your meds are sorted out and working so your initial goal should be to avoid gaining any more than you have to and to start eating much more healthily. So that’s plenty of fruit and veg, complex carbs and protein foods, and cutting out the fat as much as possible; three regular meals a day plus a couple of healthy snacks; always eat breakfast (even if you don’t want to) and drink minimum 8 glasses of water or clear fluids a day (on top of tea, coffee, milk, chocolate and alcohol).

Thanks for the diet advice, I shall take notice and do it wisely. Do book an appointment to see a dietitian if you can, as losing weight while hypothyroid is quite difficult and may need professional advice. I’ve never had a slow thyroid, but I am a chronic asthmatic and often feel as you do: lethargic and breathless. It is hard to do, but you have to accept your limitations and work within them, and concentrate on health rather than weight per se.

Yes I agree, I do need to get health sorted out first, just that when I see how much I weigh, I feel its imperitive to also sorted out the dieting and exercise aswell.

Response:

First you must get your medical condition under control, and get some advice from the doctor on what type of diet might work for you. Second you must give up smoking. While this won’t help weightloss (in fact you might put some weight on) it will help your life expectancy and general fitness. Fat non-smokers have better health than thin smokers. Aerobic exercise is great for fitness and health, but it doesn’t help a lot with weightloss (it helps a bit though so keep doing it if you can). If you can find some kind of aerobic exercise you can put up with do it. Wlaking is a good start point. Then you need to look at your diet. 1500 calories is about right. WW suggests 26-31 points. Try to get as much protein as you can. Protein will contain your hunger so you’ll be less tempted to overeat. Take a look at www.fitday.com and track your food there if you don’t want to do WW. Keep to 1500 for a while and you should lose some weight. You might want to aim to maintain if you give up smoking and get your meds right. You say you gained 7 pounds in one week. Most of that was water. every pound of fat contains 3500 calories. You did not eat 25000 extra calories in a week! Water balance is the bane of weight loss. A little gain of water here and there will affect your weight in the short term. Graph your weight over a month and you should be able to cancel out water balance errors using a running average. Good luck Ray — 2002 1.8i eternal red

Response:

I agree with this one. You need to get your meds and weight under control before you add any more variables into your body. If I had to do it over again, I would have lost the preggo weight before I quit smoking. As a result I am working to lose both. I think if I had joined WW first, my eating habits would have been clean up and the amount of weight I gained due to quitting smoking would have been minimal. You say you gained 7 pounds in one week. Most of that was water. every pound of fat contains 3500 calories. You did not eat 25000 extra calories in a week! Water balance is the bane of weight loss. A little gain of water here and there will affect your weight in the short term. Graph your weight over a month and you should be able to cancel out water balance errors using a running average. How can I reduce the amount of water being collected and stored?

WW recommends drinking 6-8 (8 ounce) glasses of water or non caffine beverages per day. Cutting back on the preprocessed foods will also reduce the amount of sodium you consume. Fluids help flush it out of your system. You might also do some internet research on the thyroid meds you are taking. Or ask your pharmacy for info on the side effects of your particular meds. Water retention might just be one of the side effects.

Response:

You say you gained 7 pounds in one week. Most of that was water. every pound of fat contains 3500 calories. You did not eat 25000 extra calories in a week! Water balance is the bane of weight loss. A little gain of water here and there will affect your weight in the short term. Graph your weight over a month and you should be able to cancel out water balance errors using a running average.

And drinking lots of water helps flush some of the extra water out of your system. Some of this weight is caused by the meds but some may be caused by lack of water so DRINK up!

Response:

HI there, thanks for the advice. I am certain the root of my problem is lack of exercise. Also I just counted the calories I had for today and it is only 1,142. Maybe I am not eating enough for my weight? I will sort out my tablets, but I do not want to use that condition as an excuse for being a lazy slob. I am lazy and I do nothing and my laziness I know will be the death of me if I do nothing about it. I did some skipping today, about 10 minutes or so. I would have done more, but I became breathless and got a bit of chest pain. If I increase the amount of skipping I do each day, hopefully those symptoms will start to wear off. I also want to start swimming. I have a swimming centre near me so really I have no excuse, its just getting that motivation. Perhaps the kind of motivation I need is to see an obese person laying on a mortuary slab.

If you have a slow thyroid you are not lazy, you are lethargic and unwell. Totally different. If exercise caused me breathlessness and pain I wouldn’t do it either! Beating yourself up and telling yourself you have to do it or you’ll die are not good motivators – they’re the sort of self-talk that makes a person think "what’s the point" and dive into the chips. Firstly you need to sort out your medical issues – tell your doctor about the breathlessness and the chest pain. Both could be symptoms of thyroid, which could be a sign the medication’s either not kicked in yet, or isn’t working for you as well as they’d like. It can take a year or so of tinkering with thyroid meds to get it right. In the meantime, you have to be patient. Secondly, try to do some walking or swimming every day, but start off *gently* and any pain or discomfort, *stop*. 10 minutes a day at first would be a good start and then build up gradually, keeping your doctor informed. Thirdly, it could be impossible to actually lose weight until your meds are sorted out and working so your initial goal should be to avoid gaining any more than you have to and to start eating much more healthily. So that’s plenty of fruit and veg, complex carbs and protein foods, and cutting out the fat as much as possible; three regular meals a day plus a couple of healthy snacks; always eat breakfast (even if you don’t want to) and drink minimum 8 glasses of water or clear fluids a day (on top of tea, coffee, milk, chocolate and alcohol). Do book an appointment to see a dietitian if you can, as losing weight while hypothyroid is quite difficult and may need professional advice. I’ve never had a slow thyroid, but I am a chronic asthmatic and often feel as you do: lethargic and breathless. It is hard to do, but you have to accept your limitations and work within them, and concentrate on health rather than weight per se. — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 168 lbs

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s hard, but you do at least know the problem. The secret of success is slightly different for everybody, but the first thing I would do is pester you doctor. Thyroid meds take ages to get right, I hear from several acquaintances on them in different parts of the world. See if you can get to see a dietician familiar with helping people to lose weight in your circumstances. They may have some tips we here don’t know about. The only real way to lose is to limit intake and combine it with exercise. Start by looking at what you eat and when. Can you swap unhealthy choices for good choices in meals and snacks? Can you try to walk every day? I too am naturally lazy, but I *have* to walk most days to collect my son from school. That way I get 2 miles in per day. It used to take me 25 minutes to get to the school: now it takes me 10-15 (I’m quicker when it’s cold and I’m late! ;P ). I have also started swimming again, and am trying to do 2 sessions a week. I hated it to start with, and I do sometimes find it difficult (I have fibromyalgia, so sometimes just moving is painful!), but now I miss the days I *don’t* exercise! It gets easier as you get fitter. If you don’t like groups, have you considered WW on line? HI there, thanks for the advice. I am certain the root of my problem is lack of exercise. Also I just counted the calories I had for today and it is only 1,142. Maybe I am not eating enough for my weight?

Not enough! You are right there! I will sort out my tablets, but I do not want to use that condition as an excuse for being a lazy slob. I am lazy and I do nothing and my laziness I know will be the death of me if I do nothing about it.

Good attitude! You are half way there. It will be more difficult for you because of the condition, but once they get the meds sorted, a lot of that difficulty may go. I pray so! I did some skipping today, about 10 minutes or so. I would have done more, but I became breathless and got a bit of chest pain. If I increase the amount of skipping I do each day, hopefully those symptoms will start to wear off.

Increase a little every few days. Go to the point of a reasonable sweat (not swimming out of your clothes!) and breathlessness rather than pain, and you will have exercised the heart, which is good. Once you can sustain that level for 20 minutes and are NOT so breathless, increase the intensity/length of exercise until you get back to breathless, and keep at that level until it goes… and so on. I can now do 30 lengths of the pool, but back in the summer I was doing 40 in an hour. If I can get back to that twice a week, coupled with my daily walks, I should be fine. I also want to start swimming. I have a swimming centre near me so really I have no excuse, its just getting that motivation. Perhaps the kind of motivation I need is to see an obese person laying on a mortuary slab.

MUCH better to trot along to the pool, expose all you wobbly bits to the public gaze, look round and realizer YOU ARE *FAAAAR* FROM THE FATTEST PERSON THERE! ;) I was seriously concerned about exposing my 15 stone (210 lb) short personage to the scrutiny of all and sundry, but once I got there I realised that I was half the size of the fattest whale in the water, and they were having fun! If THEY could do it, so could I! Now I’m a rather smaller whale, and need to tone up those muscles again so I’m more like a porpoise… — Kate XXXXXX Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

Response:

Hi Beck, Lets start with the basics. I have an underactive thyroid and am taking tablets for this. My weight is increasing in leaps and bounds even though I should be losing a bit while on tablets. This is not an excuse for my overweightedness, but its not helping.

Nope – it doesn’t – my SIL has been there. Get your meds checked? I eat around 1500 calories a day (female) and weight 17 stone. I have put on half a stone in ONE week.

Maybe you’re actually not eating enough and need to eat more to kick start your metabolism? I never exercise. I sit on the computer most of the day or play videogames. I am lazy. I am being brutally honest here as no-one else will do it for me.

Being cruel to be kind Now I have tried dieting and it does not work. I went on holiday and exercised every single day for 14 days (walked about 3 miles a day) and did not lose a single pound. I do not drink alcohol but I do smoke between 10-15 a day (roll ups).

Dieting does work. Really. But it takes perseverance….. If you suddenly start excercising at a much higher level, it does funny things to muscles and metabolism and things – you can end up with unexpected results. Now – if you’d stuck it out for a few more weeks……who knows? I don’t think of it as dieting anymore though – it’s more about learning a new healthier way of living. Thats about all I can say really. I desperately need to lose weight somehow, and bar amputating my body, I do not know how. I have considered weightwatchers, but dont like the group thing. besides, when I do diet and see no change in my weight, you can see why I lose the will for exercising and stuff.

You don’t have to do the group thing – there’s on-line, there’s here…..this is a great group. But you can’t go into this expecting quick results – it takes a long time. Consider that health professionals recommend a weekly loss of 1 to 2 pounds – it takes a while for that to add up. But that’s the healthy and sustainable way to do it. Hang in there, give it a few weeks, and take every loss as positive motivation – you can and WILL do it Write yourself a list of reasons why you’re doing it – what you hope to gain – and use that to help keep you focused. And let’s not forget the sticking the "before" photo on the fridge trick…… Best of luck to you, — krys UK 157/???/126 Started March 1st 2001 GOAL August 16th 2001 and July 22nd 2004 …in recovery mode…

Response:

Hi beck and welcome to the group. I agree with Kate that you should go pester your doctor about you medication – it’s the most obvious place to start. Also, diet (that is, modifying your food intake) and exercise work hand in hand. Some can lose weight successfully just doing one or the other, but it’s a hell of a lot easier when you do both. Here’s the welcome notice which outlines the WW program, and gives you some options if you aren’t a group-type person. Welcome to this great newsgroup where you’ll receive lots of support, advice, and encouragement. Once a week on Sundays, I post a list of links that newcomers to asdww might find useful. You may want to look for that later in the week, or do a backwards search for last Sunday’s post. In the meantime, here’s our FAQ: http://www.didian.com/asdww/ our welcome notice: http://www.geocities.com/welcomenotice/index.html Frequently seen acronyms on this NG: NSV = Non-Scale Victory WOE = Way of Eating WOL = Way of Life (Living) OP = on Points or On Program DH = Dear or Darling Husband DS/DD/DGD/etc = Dear or Darling Son, Daughter, Granddaughter, etc WI = Weigh-in Amberle3’s Challenges: Generic Exercise Challenge: http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/ge.htm November 29-February 27 It’s Never Too Late Weight Loss Challenge: http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/intl.htm December 6-February 27 Weight Loss Challenge Summary: http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/summary.htm Other acronyms: http://www.wwlissa.com/dwlz100+/100+acronyms.htm Here’s a short synopsis of the USA program by Joyce – How many points you can eat is only based on your current weight, as you lose weight those points allowed will decrease (logic is that your body will need less to operate). At 183 pounds and based on the new US flexpoints system, you will have a set point target of 24. In addition to this you are allowed 35 flexpoints to be used throughout the week … as well as any activity points you earn on a particular day. When your weight drops to 175, your target drops to 22 points … weight reaches 150, target once again drop to 20 points. 3 servings of dairy of recommended per day, 5 servings of fruit and veggies, minimum of 6 glasses of water. To calculate food and activity points, I love this computer desktop calculator … http://www.zythra.com/downloads/points.exe The basic plan is easy. Eat at least your minimum daily number of points. Points do not carry over from day to day. You are allotted 35 weekly flexpoints to be used at your discretion … can divide them up and use daily (would be an additional 5 points per day) or save them and use them for a special occassion during the week. Activity points are earned based when exercising, but can ONLY be used on the day they are earned. If you can afford $15/month, the online ww program might be a great thing for you to look into. There is lots of information available, as well as the food point database and journaling system. Joyce WW starting weight: 228.8 – 2/5/02 current weight: 133.3 Lifetime: 4/4/03 Please note that if you live in onther countries (UK, Australia, NZ, Europe), the Points plans are different. The UK and Australia/NZ calculate points based on saturated fat and total kilojoules. Most of Europe calculates based on total fat and total kilojoules. The desktop calculator above can handle all of these programs. Disclaimer: As an unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, asdww is unusual in that most of the people who participate are respectful, considerate folks who freely share their experience with and knowledge of WW, weight loss, and maintenance. Yet occasionally, spammers, trolls, and flamers show up to post advertising, false information, insults, and the like. Nearly all of the time, people like this are just trying to yank someone’s chain. Most of the regulars on this newsgroup offer their experience as a suggestion to try if you’re stuck, but are quick to advise that each person has to find what works for him/herself. If someone posts something that doesn’t sound right to you, ask the newsgroup, ask your WW leader, or ask your health professional. Much success on your weight loss journey! WW works! — Julie. 93.5/73.9/74 (WW)/72 (Personal) kg 205.7/162.6/162.8 (WW)/158 (Personal) lb Here’s our FAQ: http://www.didian.com/asdww/ and welcome notice: http://www.geocities.com/welcomenotice/index.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s hard, but you do at least know the problem. The secret of success is slightly different for everybody, but the first thing I would do is pester you doctor. Thyroid meds take ages to get right, I hear from several acquaintances on them in different parts of the world. See if you can get to see a dietician familiar with helping people to lose weight in your circumstances. They may have some tips we here don’t know about. The only real way to lose is to limit intake and combine it with exercise. Start by looking at what you eat and when. Can you swap unhealthy choices for good choices in meals and snacks? Can you try to walk every day? I too am naturally lazy, but I *have* to walk most days to collect my son from school. That way I get 2 miles in per day. It used to take me 25 minutes to get to the school: now it takes me 10-15 (I’m quicker when it’s cold and I’m late! ;P ). I have also started swimming again, and am trying to do 2 sessions a week. I hated it to start with, and I do sometimes find it difficult (I have fibromyalgia, so sometimes just moving is painful!), but now I miss the days I *don’t* exercise! It gets easier as you get fitter. If you don’t like groups, have you considered WW on line?

Response:

Welcome to the group. You sound a lot like I was 2 years ago. I did not exercise at all and spend a lot of time at my desk. Dinner typically was fast food as I was always at the office. I did not think that I would like group meetings but now I look forward to them. I also could not lose anything on other diets. WW is the first one that I have lost any weight on in all my life. It does work. I have a few suggestions: 1) get your thyroid meds checked to make sure that they are at the right levels. I’ve always understood that your weight should level off once the meds are set right. So if you are still gaining weight then somthing might not be correct with them. Discuss your weight gain with your doctor too. 2) Check out a meeting to get the printed materials to get you started. Stay for the meetings for a few weeks. You might surprise yourself in liking them. If nothing else going to a few meetings will give you the info to get started. If you don’t like the meetings then check out the WW program on line. The site is http://www.weightwatchers.co.uk/index.aspx. You have the printed materials that outline the program and you can use the tools on the site to track your food and progress. 3) post here for additional support. This is a great group for support. We are all in the same boat as you are.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lets start with the basics. I have an underactive thyroid and am taking tablets for this. My weight is increasing in leaps and bounds even though I should be losing a bit while on tablets. This is not an excuse for my overweightedness, but its not helping. I eat around 1500 calories a day (female) and weight 17 stone. I have put on half a stone in ONE week. I never exercise. I sit on the computer most of the day or play videogames. I am lazy. I am being brutally honest here as no-one else will do it for me. Now I have tried dieting and it does not work. I went on holiday and exercised every single day for 14 days (walked about 3 miles a day) and did not lose a single pound. I do not drink alcohol but I do smoke between 10-15 a day (roll ups). Thats about all I can say really. I desperately need to lose weight somehow, and bar amputating my body, I do not know how. I have considered weightwatchers, but dont like the group thing. besides, when I do diet and see no change in my weight, you can see why I lose the will for exercising and stuff. Advice please? for a desperate obese

Welcome to the group! It’s hard, but you do at least know the problem. The secret of success is slightly different for everybody, but the first thing I would do is pester you doctor. Thyroid meds take ages to get right, I hear from several acquaintances on them in different parts of the world. See if you can get to see a dietician familiar with helping people to lose weight in your circumstances. They may have some tips we here don’t know about. The only real way to lose is to limit intake and combine it with exercise. Start by looking at what you eat and when. Can you swap unhealthy choices for good choices in meals and snacks? Can you try to walk every day? I too am naturally lazy, but I *have* to walk most days to collect my son from school. That way I get 2 miles in per day. It used to take me 25 minutes to get to the school: now it takes me 10-15 (I’m quicker when it’s cold and I’m late! ;P ). I have also started swimming again, and am trying to do 2 sessions a week. I hated it to start with, and I do sometimes find it difficult (I have fibromyalgia, so sometimes just moving is painful!), but now I miss the days I *don’t* exercise! It gets easier as you get fitter. If you don’t like groups, have you considered WW on line? — Kate XXXXXX Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

Response:

Lets start with the basics. I have an underactive thyroid and am taking tablets for this. My weight is increasing in leaps and bounds even though I should be losing a bit while on tablets. This is not an excuse for my overweightedness, but its not helping. I eat around 1500 calories a day (female) and weight 17 stone. I have put on half a stone in ONE week. I never exercise. I sit on the computer most of the day or play videogames. I am lazy. I am being brutally honest here as no-one else will do it for me. Now I have tried dieting and it does not work. I went on holiday and exercised every single day for 14 days (walked about 3 miles a day) and did not lose a single pound. I do not drink alcohol but I do smoke between 10-15 a day (roll ups). Thats about all I can say really. I desperately need to lose weight somehow, and bar amputating my body, I do not know how. I have considered weightwatchers, but dont like the group thing. besides, when I do diet and see no change in my weight, you can see why I lose the will for exercising and stuff. Advice please? for a desperate obese

Response:

Has anybody heard about the new n pain killer "Primalt"

admin — Sat, 08 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Priault? Have heard very little about it. So little, I do not even know how to spell it. Is it even available yet? I can imagine a Rheumatologist can also prescribe it, as they can and do prescribe oxycontin. Interesting. How much oxycontin were you on with the withdrawals. I am on 60mgs a day. I also have Percocetts for the break thru pain. Always, ..