Question:

Gary, when you see your doc, ask him to do a thyroid check as well as the B12 check.  I went looking for Hypothyroid info after CrazyTater posted about her diagnosis.  There is some very scary smoking related stuff.  One thing that jumped out at me on one of the sites was: "Note: If You Don’t Have Thyroid Disease, But Are Planning to Quit Smoking: First…good for you. If you want to stay on top of your health, get a baseline Thyroid Function Test (known as a TSH test) before you quit. Then, after quitting, if you find that you have more than the small weight gain associated with quitting smoking, or if the common symptoms of having quit continue longer than normal, visit your doctor for a followup TSH test to see if you have an underlying thyroid condition."

That’s good information. I did just get a total workup on my blood at the end of December (just before my quit). The repost showed "thyroid function tests" as normal. Other parts of the tests showed some reasons for concern. This was the driving modivation for my quit to begin with. And I had the physical because I wasn’t feeling like my self, but couldn’t put my finger on it. I’m scedualed to get a follow up battery of workup tests on 2/2. I’ll be sure to note all this crap to the doc. Note the part about common quit symptoms (like the craves) continuing longer than normal.  Also, thyroid problems can cause depression.

Yeah, I saw that. Sounds a bit too real for me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Another thing I read was: "Tobacco smoke contains substances that affect the function of the thyroid.  One component of tobacco smoke is cyanide, which is converted to thiocyanate, which acts as an anti-thyroid agent, directly inhibiting iodide uptake and hormone synthesis.  There are many other components of smoke that might have antithyroid action; decrease the binding of triiodothyronine to its receptors or its post-receptor actions in the liver, muscle, or other organs; or both. I did a google search on:(hypothyroid "quitting smoking") and got literally dozens of pages of useful listings. Good luck and keep up the fight.  :) billm

It’s simply amazing what’s in smoke. And the more I know about it, the more I know I’m not doing that again. Thanks Bill to take the time to post this info. It’s going to be a big help. Gary It’s been Two weeks and five days since I quit CT. That’s 453 cigarettes, saving me about $61.28 so far. 1 day, 13 hours, 45 minutes added to my life. No, I’m not Superman, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. —

Response:

: Klatehen wotre: : : 300wpm!!!  We have been missing you! : : Gdoo to see yuo too Kthleaen!  Hwo aer tihgns in teh Lneo Srat Satte? : Hvae yuo fnodu mnay scrionops rcetnley? Things are great!  We moved, and since there is no wood for the scorpions to thrive in,  I’m hoping they won’t make their way into the house.  They don’t bother us in the cooler months so we probably won’t know for sure until May or so. : Glad to see your quit is doing well!  Whooooooohoooooooooooooo! : : Is’t bnee tghuo at tmies, Teh Msarte cna eb a bti bsosy adn onbxoius : btu I mngaeda to ingroe hmi.  LOMA!  Aynwya, msut dsha, I’ev gto : smilpy *tnos* fo tpynig to do tihs arfnetoon. Make sure and say hello to Igor when you get the chance…  and tell the Master to take a chill pill or two when he gets in a snit.  He should be feeling better about now, but stay vigilant! With hope and heart, Kathleen : Fmale On Ssrite! : : 300wpm : — : Cruisotiy mya hvea klidle Shorncigders cta.

Response:

Klatehen wotre: 300wpm!!!  We have been missing you!

Gdoo to see yuo too Kthleaen!  Hwo aer tihgns in teh Lneo Srat Satte? Hvae yuo fnodu mnay scrionops rcetnley? Glad to see your quit is doing well!  Whooooooohoooooooooooooo!

Is’t bnee tghuo at tmies, Teh Msarte cna eb a bti bsosy adn onbxoius btu I mngaeda to ingroe hmi.  LOMA!  Aynwya, msut dsha, I’ev gto smilpy *tnos* fo tpynig to do tihs arfnetoon. Rock on! With hope and heart, Kathleen

Fmale On Ssrite! 300wpm — Cruisotiy mya hvea klidle Shorncigders cta.

Response:

300wpm!!!  We have been missing you! Glad to see your quit is doing well!  Whooooooohoooooooooooooo! Rock on! With hope and heart, Kathleen — If you are humble nothing will touch you, neither praise nor disgrace, because you know what you are. ~Mother Theresa "300wpm"  wrote : Tmi wotre: : : Gary, my dear, you are right on track.  It is perfectly normal (indeed, it : is almost *universal*) to have "cravings" weeks or months into a quit.  Most : of us here have experienced this, or we wouldn’t be here. : : We joke about the Curse of the Threes — 3 day, 3 weeks, 3 months : : True, superstition is surprisingly powerful… : : [spni] : : Yuo aer a ppooy hdea. : : *pnokl* : : I hvea nto skomed fro tehre mothns, fruo wekes, eghti hruos adn ehgit : mnuiets.  4773 carigestet nto skomed, sviang

Question:

What is the current medical concences concerning sv 40 and autoimmune diseases? http://c1.zedo.com//ads2/f/10824/3853/255/0/152009481/152000000/0/152… zz-Arrow.html The Forty Year Legacy of Tainted Polio Vaccine by Harold Stearley In the late 1940’s and early 1950’s the polio virus was taking a savage toll on the American public. Thousands of children and adults were crippled or killed. In 1955, Jonas Salk performed a medical miracle when he discovered how to mass produce polio vaccine by growing it on the kidneys of rhesus monkeys. While there is no question that thousands were saved from the ravages of polio by the Salk vaccine, by 1960 a problem had surfaced — a problem which would come back to haunt the nation some forty years later. The complication researchers had isolated in 1960 was a viral contaminate. It seems that when the live polio virus grown on monkey tissues was extracted for vaccine production another virus was extracted as well, SV-40. When this monkey virus was injected into research animals it produced brain cancer. It appears our government didn’t wish to create a public panic or discredit the public health service, because instead of recalling the tainted vaccines, it quietly ordered the manufacturers to find a monkey free of SV-40 and continue production. As of 1963, the rhesus monkey had been replaced with the African green monkey for production of a safer polio vaccine, but between the years of 1955 and 1963 as many as 98 million Americans had received doses of live polio virus vaccines tainted with SV-40. Jumping to the early 1990’s, Michele Carbone, Assistant Professor of Pathology at Loyola University in Chicago, isolated fragments of the SV-40 virus in human bone cancers and in a particularly nasty form of lung cancer called mesotheliomas. The viral contaminate from the 50s was back to haunt us, and appeared in 33% of the osteosarcoma bone cancers studied, in 40% of other bone cancers, and in 60% of the mesotheliomas lung cancers. Dr. Carbone believed this study could explain why 50% of the current mesotheliomas being treated were no longer occurring in association with their traditional cause of asbestos exposure. Already sounding like a bad science fiction story, the worse news was yet to follow. An Italian team of researchers from the Institute of Histology and General Embryology of the University of Ferrara lead by Dr. Fernanda Martini discovered SV-40’s presence in various other tumors. To be specific they found the monkey virus in 83% of choriod plexus papillomas, in 73% of ependymomas, in 47% of astrocytomas, in 50% of glioblastomas, and in 14% of meningiomas. While the virus’s appearance in all of these types of brain tumors is mortifying, even more so is the fact that it materialized in 23% of blood samples and 45% of sperm fluids taken from normal individuals — normal meaning free of disease at the time of testing. The researchers determined the virus could be transmitted sexually and through blood transfusions. As if to drive this point home, SV-40 has appeared in 61% of all new cancer patients — patients too young to have received the contaminated vaccine being administered forty years ago who are now believed to have been infected by human to human transmission. Being a blood born organism, it is also suspected that SV-40 is transmissible from mother to child during pregnancy. The more this matter is researched the more startling the evidence. Senior epidemiologist at the National Institutes of Health, Dr. Howard Strickler, has plotted a geographic pattern to the cancers associated with SV-40 helping to confirm its link to the tainted vaccine. People who lived in Massachusetts and Illinois who received identified lot numbers of the contaminated vaccine administered in the 1950s are now demonstrating ten times the rate of the osteosarcoma bone tumors as those who received vaccine free of the SV-40 contaminate in other parts of the country. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) mandates that every American infant and child receive polio vaccinations. While public health officials continue to emphasize how current supplies of the vaccine are safe, Peter Reeve, FDA Virologist, has acknowledged that the administration abandoned independent testing of vaccine purity some fifteen years ago. The job of ensuring safety and purity rests squarely on the shoulders of those manufacturing the vaccines with no federal oversight. Wyeth-Lederle controls the supply of all the oral polio vaccine in this country, and last year’s sales totaled some $230 million dollars. Surely there would be no conflict of interest in allowing this corporation to be the sole agent of quality oversight of their own pocketbook? The government may not have paid attention to the quality of these vaccines, but they had formulated a plan for their distribution. Federal vaccination policy advocated the use of live-virus oral polio vaccine (OPV) based on the belief the live virus shed in the body fluids of infants immunized with OPV could immunize others through contact exposure. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) insisted this was a safe practice, and emphasized that no one previously vaccinated could contract the disease in this manner. The public was never informed of this strategy, however, and no consent was ever obtained from the unknowing participants in this vaccination scheme. One hundred and twenty people, many previously vaccinated, contracted polio as a result of this practice. To add insult to injury in 1994 the World Health Organization proclaimed polio was eliminated from the Western Hemisphere. Insult because for the past seventeen years the only cases of polio occurring in the United States have been caused by the vaccine itself, and injury because this victory will be paid for in blood from the cancers produced by the monkey virus spread with the vaccine. One might ask just how such a thing could happen considering the injectable form of the vaccine (IPV) does not use a live virus and doesn’t transmit the disease it is designed to shield us from? Well, Wyeth-Lederle’s leading competitor Connaught produces IVP which could explain why Wyeth lobbied so hard against the CDC recommending increased use of IVP. In 1996 the CDC revised its recommendation from four doses of OPV to two doses of IVP followed by two doses of OPV, however, physicians have been instructed to give all four doses as OPV if they desire. The cost of IVP vaccine is $5.40 per dose, whereas OPV costs $2.32 per dose. With the difference in cost favoring the use of OPV, and the current climate of regulating health care costs, clearer guidelines must come from the government if they truly expect to increase the use of the safer IVP vaccine. Well the story of contaminated polio vaccine is not over yet. Microbiologist Howard Urnovitz, Ph.D. provided significant evidence at the Eighth Annual Houston Conference on AIDS that human immunodeficiency virus type 1 (HIV-1) is a monkey hybrid virus which was produced when 320,000 Africans were injected with polio virus contaminated with live simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) in the late 1950’s. Apparently, viral fragments combine easily with other viruses to produce these hybrids called "chimeras." This theory was confirmed by another research team headed by Dr. B. F. Elswood at the University of California in San Francisco. Interestingly enough, when researchers Cecil H. Fox and John Martin applied to the National Institutes of Health for grants to confirm the presence of SIV and simian cyto-megalovirus (SCMV) contaminates in polio vaccines their requests were denied. Dr. Urnovitz may have an explanation as he stated in the Boston Globe, "that almost 100 million Americans were exposed (to SV-40) through a government sponsored program, but for over 30 years, there has been virtually no government effort to see if anyone’s been harmed by the exposure." He added, "The government will not fund science that makes it look culpable." Could it be our government, once again, is attempting to avoid a public panic while ignoring the great potential for harm these viruses could inflict. Time will tell. Harvard Medical School professor, Dr. Ronald Desroier points out that taking all known scientific evidence into account that the medical experts’ knowledge is limited to "perhaps 2% of existing monkey viruses." Who knows what lethal virus may be discovered in our blood streams forty years from now as a result of good intentions…. References Berleur, M. P., & Cordier, S. (1995). The Role of Chemical, Physical, or Viral Exposures and Health Factors in Neurocarcinogenesis: Implications for Epidemiologic Studies of Brain Tumors. Cancer Causes and Control, 6(3), 240-256. Bookchin, D., & Schumaker, J. (1997). Tainted Polio Vaccine Still Carries Its Threat 40 Years Later. The Boston Globe, January 26. Carbone, M., et al. (1996). SV-40 Like Sequences in Human Bone Tumors. Oncogene, 13(3), 527-535. Elswood, B. F., & Stricker, R. B. (1995). Polio Vaccines and the Origin of AIDS. Medical Hypotheses, 42(6), 347-354. Fisher, B. L. (1997). Workshop on Simian Virus 40: A Possible Human Polyomavirus. National Vaccine Information Center, January 27, On-line at http://www.909shot.com/polio197.htmhttp://www.909shot.com/polio197.htm. Krieg, P., Amtmann E, Jonas, D., Fischer, H., Zang, K., & Sauer G. (1981). Episomal Simian Virus 40 Genomes in Human Brain Tumors. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 78(10), 6446-6450. Lednicky, J. A., Garcea, R. L., Bergsagel, D. J., & Butel, J. S. (1995). Natural Simian Virus 40 Strains are Present in Human choroid Plexus and Ependymoma tumors. Virology, 212(2), 710-717. Martini, F., et al. (1995). Human Brain Tumors and Simian Virus 40. Journal of the National Cancer Institute, 87(17), 1331. Martini, F., et al. (1996). SV-40 Early Region and Large T Antigen in Human Brain Tumors, … read more »

Response:

Analysis: Autoimmune diseases in women Host: NEAL CONAN Time: 2:00-3:00 PM NEAL CONAN, host: This is TALK OF THE NATION. I’m Neal Conan in Washington. In this third part of our women’s health series, we sent our production assistant Megan Williams out last night to get a sense of what women in Washington, DC, know or think they know about autoimmune diseases. Can you separate fact from fiction? MEGAN WILLIAMS: What makes something an autoimmune disease? Unidentified Woman #1: It goes against your body. Your body reacts and goes against itself, so rheumatoid arthritis and it would be… Unidentified Woman #2: Multiple sclerosis, lupus, scleroderma. You want me to go on? Unidentified Woman #3: Chicken pox. Is that in the field? Is that right? WILLIAMS: Well… Unidentified Woman #3: Polio. No? I’m not sure. WILLIAMS: Can you name any autoimmune diseases? Unidentified Woman #4: AIDS. Well, that’s the most obvious one. Unidentified Woman #5: I think leukemia is also autoimmune. I think so. I think leukemia. CONAN: Some of those answers are right; some are wrong. We’ll get you answers as we go along. Welcome to the third in our series on women’s health. If you missed segments one and two, check our Web site for more information. That’s www.npr.org. Last week, we talked about heart disease, the number-one killer of American women, which is, in most cases, preventable. Today we’ll focus on a cluster of diseases that are much more mysterious: autoimmune diseases, which include lupus, MS and rheumatoid arthritis, among many others. Together, they affect as many as 22 million Americans, and they tend to strike women much more frequently than men. Nobody knows why, and that is just one of the many puzzles that researchers are trying to figure out about these often devastating ailments. Joining us today for the third in our series on women’s health is Dr. Noel Rose, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Autoimmune Disease Research at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. He’s with us on an ISDN line at Johns Hopkins School of Public Health. And welcome to TALK OF THE NATION. Dr. NOEL ROSE (Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health): Thank you, Neal. CONAN: And from our bureau in New York, Dr. Betty Diamond, chief of rheumatology at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine and professor of microbiology and immunology also at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine. And thank you very much for joining us. Dr. BETTY DIAMOND (Albert Einstein College of Medicine): Thank you. CONAN: We welcome calls from women who have been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. Have you found sufficient treatment? If you’ ve been dealing with it for a number of years now, how have you learned to cope? Did you try to conceal your illness? We’d like to hear about the social pressures involved in a chronic debilitating disease and the concerns some may have about disclosing their condition. To get in on the conversation, give us a phone call. Our number is (800) And, Dr. Diamond, if we could begin with you, first, briefly, the immune system–how does it work? Dr. DIAMOND: Well, the job of the immune system is to protect you against invading microorganisms, viruses, bacteria and parasites. So it has to recognize a microorganism and then mount a response that eliminates it from your system without damaging your own tissues. CONAN: And what is an autoimmune disease? I take it when it starts damaging your own tissues. Dr. DIAMOND: Well, exactly. And one of the women interviewed had it right. It’s when the immune system makes errors in recognizing- -being able to distinguish foreign invaders from one’s own tissues and mounts a response against one’s own tissues. CONAN: And this can manifest itself in a lot of different areas. And, Dr. Rose, I read in reading up for this program that though autoimmune diseases are not cancers, they are similar in the extent that, you know, different kinds of diseases–in this case, lupus or rheumatoid arthritis–are caused by one thing, an autoimmune disease. Dr. ROSE: That’s right. The analogy to cancer, a comparison to cancer, is very good because cancer, like autoimmune disease, can affect any part of the body, any tissue or any organ in the body. And autoimmune disease similarly can affect any site in the body. So the clinical manifestations–that is what the patient sees or what the patient suffers from or what the doctor sees–will differ from one disease to another. But the basic mechanism by which the disease is produced, the way in which it comes about, is autoimmunity. CONAN: What is the most common of autoimmune disease or maybe the most common manifestation of autoimmune disease? Dr. ROSE: Well, on a purely statistical basis, the most common autoimmune diseases are the two autoimmune diseases that affect the thyroid gland. That’s the gland in the neck, a sort of butterflylike gland in the neck that affects the metabolism of the body; that is the energy that the body uses. And there are two autoimmune diseases that can affect the gland, and interestingly enough, they affect the gland in opposite ways. So one autoimmune disease that’s very common–in fact, the most common of all the autoimmune diseases–is called Graves disease, and that’s a disease that causes an overactive thyroid. We say hyperthyroidism. So the gland is overactive. And then the other disease–the other autoimmune disease that can affect the thyroid gland is called Hashimoto’ s thyroiditis or chronic thyroiditis, and that’s a form of hypothyroidism; that is low thyroid function. So the thyroid is underproducing the thyroid hormone. Those are the two most common autoimmune diseases. CONAN: And, Dr. Diamond, I mean, it seems almost perverse that the same underlying condition, if you will, can cause such completely different manifestations, you know, hyper or hypo; I mean, too much or too little. Dr. DIAMOND: Well, that’s true. I think we understand a little about why that’s so, because the target is different in each case; it’s the thyroid, but in one case, in the case of hyperthyroidism, the individual is making antibodies that essentially bind to the thyroid and, say, increase your metabolism. And in the case of hypothyroidism, there are cells that just destroy the thyroid tissue. So in one case, antibodies are functioning like a hormone and in the other case, there’s an actual just destruction of the thyroid. CONAN: Our telephone number again: (800) 989-8255; that’s (800) 989-TALK. Our Vernon, Virginia. SUSAN (Caller): Hello. My sister’s 59 years old, and Hashimoto’s destroyed her thyroid in her early 30s. She now has Raynaud’s Syndrome, which makes her fingers turn white. And for almost 10 years now, she’s had this itch that shows up randomly in different parts of her body. In some places, it looks like a rash; others, like hives. When it comes up on her legs, it looks like mosquito bites. And she’s been to so many different doctors and they’ve ruled out allergies, but even the neurologist said it wasn’t that–wasn’t autoimmune. They thought it was Grover’s disease for a while, but then decided against that. Is there anyplace she can go that could figure this out for her? CONAN: Dr. Rose. Dr. ROSE: Well, I can’t tell you what’s wrong with your sister, obviously, on the telephone… SUSAN: No, but… Dr. ROSE: …on the radio, but let me just make one point. And that is that if you have one autoimmune disease, you are more likely to have another. So interestingly, your sister apparently had–or has autoimmune thyroid disease, and now has Raynaud’s disease, which may indicate that some other autoimmune disease could be on its way, because Raynaud’s is often a harbinger of some other autoimmune disorder. SUSAN: Is there a clinic somewhere that specializes in finding those kind of things that she could go to? Dr. ROSE: I wish there were. One of the lacks we have is what we would call an autoimmune disease clinic or an autoimmune disease doctor. And the reason for that is that, as we were saying, the autoimmune diseases are very different one from another. And the way our medical system operates, we have specialists that concern themselves with one kind of organ and one kind of organ system. So that it’s very hard to find somebody who’s just interested in autoimmune disease itself. And so I would say… SUSAN: Would the neurologist… Dr. ROSE: …the best advice I can give to patients in general, who have the sorts of problems that your sister is manifesting, is to find a good general internist or a good general family doctor with whom they can develop a close rapport and work with that one doctor as closely and intimately as possible and then let him or her handle referrals. Because one of the problems with patients having autoimmune disease is that they have a natural tendency to go from doctor to doctor to doctor, because their disease is often complex. It doesn’ t fit neatly in a clinical specialty. So I think it’s much better to have one internist, one family doctor with whom you feel comfortable and then let him or her try to sort out what kinds of underlying problems you may have. CONAN: Susan, thank… Dr. DIAMOND: I just… CONAN: Go ahead. Dr. DIAMOND: Can I just make one comment? CONAN: Now this is Dr. Diamond. Go ahead. Dr. DIAMOND: That Raynaud’s disease, Raynaud’s phenomenon is associated with some autoimmune diseases. That’s true. But some 10 percent of women will have Raynaud’s and most will not go on to any autoimmune disease, so I don’t think that the existence of Raynaud’s itself should suggest to your sister that something more dire is going to come along. SUSAN: Well, that, I think, came after–this itch thing has been going on for 10 years. The Raynaud’s is … read more »

Response:

Question:

Its a simple blood test to check the function of the thyroid. Do the test. If you are hypothyroid, then medication will help you. I use 0.2625 mg of levothyroxin per day. — Rudy Benner "Laugh and the world laughs with you,     snore and you sleep alone."        Anthony Burgess "TrueLotus" <truelo…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20001215135024.07779.00005204@ng-fy1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I don’t!  Her documented reputation stands behind her.  How can you

believe

her? Unfortunately, I did. Documented gossip and slander with no legal validity whatsoever but if

that

gives you an excuse, then you should go with it and join the gossipers and slanderers. HOWEVER: I will verify in any way you would like that I have sleep apnea. I will

ask my

doctor to print up a letter or whatever you like if that’s the kind of

proof

you need. But it seems you only need gossip and not proof to formulate

your

opinion. Here’s some more make believe stuff: I went to the sleep center at 6:30;. They  lead us up to the sleep center.

They

attached electrodes and put some bands around the upper and lower chest.

The

electrodes were held in with something that seemed like gasket grease or crisco. We then  proceded to go to sleep. I was awakened at 7 am. Then every two

hours

I was asked to fall asleep again until early afternoon. I went to the interview with the nurse practitioner. As of my last contact

with

her, she stated that I had mild sleep apnea and I should take a CPAP

study. She

scheduled one in March. However, we will already be relocated to

Minneapolis

from Seattle before the appointment date (I’m keeping the appointment just

in

case we are still in Seattle in mid-March). The fact is that at times I sleep from 12 to 14 hours per day and still

don’t

feel refreshed. I am thinking that it may be because I’m hypothyroid

because my

sleep apnea is not that severe. You flatter yourself to think that I would take the time to make up such a story. What for? Ari ~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~* Ari’s Adventure Travel http://www.eskimo.com/~tlotus Personal website: http://www.eskimo.com/ari2.html ~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*

Response:

TrueLotus wrote:

Fact is that I have sleep apnea. Fact is that I can be a real b—-ch sometimes. Fact is I don’t and never have had the intention of disruption. It just happens to be part of my personality.

Problem is no one will take you seriously if you continue this behavior. Eventually you get tuned out and few will respond. Before you hit the send key, I strongly suggest you go back over your articles and weed out the inaccurate garbage and things that do not apply directly to you, and make an effort to tone down language that might be seen as starting an argument. We do want to help, but if we begin to feel that you or anyone else is just playing a game and not serious, we won’t take you serious. We won’t reply with the information you need to help you, you will be stuck waiting for someone else to pose the same questions and be answered. We do not tolerate trolls, at best we will ignore you at worst we will report you. Either way you lose. — Magesteff  - "Imagination is more important than knowledge."-Albert Einstein ——————————————————– Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II,

Question:

Noni juice?  It’s not squeezed from the Nene, state bird of Hawaii? Or do they just drink the stuff? Just mail me the tree, vine, whatever, I’ll make my own juice. How much do them birds cost? (has anyone tried squeezing one?)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, and I looked up Neil Solomon and Ralph Heinicke in the National Faculty Directory and the Directory of Specialists in the US and they are not listed as being on the faculty for Johns Hopkins or U. of Hawaii, the only Neil Solomon listed as specialists are Internal Medicine and Radiology.  Medline does not turn up any artiles written by either one. No such term as xeronin or pro-xeronin, etc. Who dreamed up this? S. from the rock. I don’t sell it, I just take it, and know many others who do. You have been a busy boy the last few days, posting messages in alt.support.lupus, alt.health(2), alt.buisness.import.export, alt.music.hawaiian, alt.buisness.international and alt.sport.weightlifting all in support of a product that you don’t have any financial interest in.  I will not make any accusations and will let all draw their own conclusions as to your motives. JDShine

Response:

I don’t sell it, I just take it,

Kind of strange.  Your name that is, for someone that doesn’t sell it.

Response:

Those stats belong to Dr. Neil Solomon, one of the biggest MDs in this country, whose credentials are just below. Morinda does not offer a 100% moneyback guarantee for nothing!

Solomon has been proven one of the biggest frauds in the country.  That is why he fled California.  Just ahead of prosecution for fraud and claiming credentials he did not have.

Response:

That must be why he’s not listed in the American Medical Directory, nor is he listed as faculty anywhere. S. from the rock. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Those stats belong to Dr. Neil Solomon, one of the biggest MDs in this country, whose credentials are just below. Morinda does not offer a 100% moneyback guarantee for nothing! Solomon has been proven one of the biggest frauds in the country.  That is why he fled California.  Just ahead of prosecution for fraud and claiming credentials he did not have.

Response:

I personally know a dozen or more people that no longer have Arthritis, because of *****.   (name deleted because I refuse to give them more ad space)

Yea right.  Anyone want to buy a bridge?  It’s a good one to take a flying leap off of. Sarah L "IF IT’S GOT TIRES OR TESTICLES YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TROUBLE WITH IT!"

Response:

Yes, and I looked up Neil Solomon and Ralph Heinicke in the National Faculty Directory and the Directory of Specialists in the US and they are not listed as being on the faculty for Johns Hopkins or U. of Hawaii, the only Neil Solomon listed as specialists are Internal Medicine and Radiology.  Medline does not turn up any artiles written by either one. No such term as xeronin or pro-xeronin, etc. Who dreamed up this? S. from the rock. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell it, I just take it, and know many others who do. You have been a busy boy the last few days, posting messages in alt.support.lupus, alt.health(2), alt.buisness.import.export, alt.music.hawaiian, alt.buisness.international and alt.sport.weightlifting all in support of a product that you don’t have any financial interest in.  I will not make any accusations and will let all draw their own conclusions as to your motives. JDShine

Response:

I don’t sell it, I just take it, and know many others who do.

You have been a busy boy the last few days, posting messages in alt.support.lupus, alt.health(2), alt.buisness.import.export, alt.music.hawaiian, alt.buisness.international and alt.sport.weightlifting all in support of a product that you don’t have any financial interest in.  I will not make any accusations and will let all draw their own conclusions as to your motives. JDShine

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI Wolfgang – We haven’t heard from you for a long time!  Noni is a scam – don’t waste your money. I know Kittie had to give up Enbrel, has she tried Arava or Remicade yet?  Has she tried Celebrex yet?  It’s a cox-2 like Vioxx and it worked better for me. Hang in there! -g- Kitty

Thanks everyone for your responses.  We had figured this much, but it is nice to hear from folks that are not involved in selling. Kittie has tried Celebrex and Viox, but had to give up because of bad side effects.  We are keeping our eyes on Remicade.  We looked up info on the Prosorba Column on the internet and in literature from her Rheumy, and it looked soooo scary that we decided not to consider it (also, the percentages of help were so low). Wolfgang Wolfgang John http://www.am-woljo.com

Response:

Thanks everyone for your responses.  We had figured this much, but it is nice to hear from folks that are not involved in selling. Kittie has tried Celebrex and Viox, but had to give up because of bad side effects.  We are keeping our eyes on Remicade.  We looked up info on the Prosorba Column on the internet and in literature from her Rheumy, and it looked soooo scary that we decided not to consider it (also, the percentages of help were so low). Wolfgang

Hey Wolfgang, I know it looks scary, but I am going to try it. I think of it as being less scary than the drugs. This is not putting a potentially toxic substance in my body. There’s a lot less side effects than most DMARDS. As for the percentages being low, that may be the case. But for those of us that nothing else has worked on, maybe this is the one for us. I wouldn’t rule it out just because it looks scary. Don’t make that decision till Kitty and I give ya the real scoop! LOL Keep Smilin’ ~Krissy Akron, Ohio Visit my web pages at: http://arthritisnet.com http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/RA.html Coming to a computer near you on Nov. 12: http://www.arthritiswebsite.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks everyone for your responses.  We had figured this much, but it is nice to hear from folks that are not involved in selling. Kittie has tried Celebrex and Viox, but had to give up because of bad side effects.  We are keeping our eyes on Remicade.  We looked up info on the Prosorba Column on the internet and in literature from her Rheumy, and it looked soooo scary that we decided not to consider it (also, the percentages of help were so low). Wolfgang Hey Wolfgang, I know it looks scary, but I am going to try it. I think of it as being less scary than the drugs. This is not putting a potentially toxic substance in my body. There’s a lot less side effects than most DMARDS. As for the percentages being low, that may be the case. But for those of us that nothing else has worked on, maybe this is the one for us. I wouldn’t rule it out just because it looks scary. Don’t make that decision till Kitty and I give ya the real scoop! LOL Keep Smilin’ ~Krissy

We admire your spirit, Krissy and wish you the best results. Wolfgang Wolfgang John http://www.am-woljo.com

Response:

I don’t sell it, I just take it, and know many others who do. You are either down on what you are not up on, or are you part of the 10 – 15% of all people Noni does not help. Those stats belong to Dr. Neil Solomon, one of the biggest MDs in this country, whose credentials are just below. Morinda does not offer a 100% moneyback guarantee for nothing! I personally know a dozen or more people that no longer have Arthritis, because of Noni. Heck, my friend Bill Taylor in Ellsinore, MO is doing deep knee bends now, and could hardly walk due to an arthritic knee 1 month ago! Here’s what the BIG Doctors say: Dr. Neil Solomon, M.D., PH.D., a big proponent of NONI         * Schwentkner Award winner for excellence in research         * professorship at Johns Hopkins and University of Maryland Schools of Medicine         * Diplomate of the National Board of Medical Examiners         * internationally syndicated medical columnist for the L.A. Times for over  16 years         * former first Secretary of Health and Mental Hygiene for the State of Maryland.         * chairman of the Health, Education and Science Center of the         International Council of Caring Communities         * member of the Health and Science Council of the Communication Coordinating    Commitee for the United Nations.         * author of over 90 publications (including on the Morinda Citrifolia plant)         *Regular guest on Many talk shows including Oprah and the tonite show. Dr. Ralph Heinicke: Xeronine and Cell Regeneration Dr. Heinicke has a Ph.D. in biochemistry and did extensive research for the University of Hawaii. Dr.Ralph Heinicke became aware of the marvelousbenefits of the Morinda Citrifolia Fruit and set out to find the pharmacologically active ingredient of the Morinda Citrifolia. Dr. Heinicke had spent over 45 years studying the effects of an alkaloid he discovered and named xeronine. Xeronine is a relatively small alkaloid which is physiologically very active and important for the proper function of all cells in the body. In his research, Dr. Heinicke discovered that the Morinda Citrifolia juice contacts appreciable amounts of the precursor of xeronine that he named "pro-xeronine." Pro-xeronine releases pure xeronine in the intestines when it comes in contact with a particular enzyme also found in the Morinda Citrifolia juice. Dr. Heinicke’s theory, is that when released, xeronine actually works at the molecular level to repair damaged cells. Dr. Heinicke states that the primary function of xeronine is to regulate the rigidity and shape of specific proteins. Since these proteins have different functions within the cells, this explains how the administrations of Morinda Citrifolia juice causes an unbelievably wide range of physiological responses. Dr. Heinicke has commented as follows: "Some of the problems which drinking Morinda Citrifolia juice might favorably affect are: high blood pressure, menstrual cramps, arthritis, gastric ulcers, sprains, injuries, mental depression, senility, poor digestion, atherosclerosis, blood vessel problems, drug addiction, relief of pain, and many others. Although this list looks like a page torn out of a traveling medicine man’s manual, it is probably Dr Neil Solomon, professor at Johns Hoplins and a member of the American Board of Medical Examiners also uses Noni in his own practice, and says it does little or no harm, and is a generalist and "it is the pharmacy he has been wating all his life for."         Dr. Mona Harrison, M.D.         * former Assistant Dean at the Boston University School of Medicine. * was         Chief Medical Officer at the D.C. General Hospital in Washington, DC.         * recieved an in-house fellowship from Harvard University.         * internationally known for her lectures and her writings.         * has been a keynote speaker at the National Medical Association Convention         Dr. Mona Harrison writes***, "Noni enhances the function of the thyroid and     thymus glands, helping to ward off infections and other problems with the       immune system. It can even reverse depression, because it allows neural hormones       to work." She further adds, "Noni, an ancient remedy, is finally being validated         by breakthroughs in modern technology."         With regards to depression, moods, addictions, and mental alertness. Dr.  Solomon further writes that the "Tahitian noni…contains the greatest serotonin  binding capacity in the Rubiaceae plant family….From over 10,000 people       who used noni supplements, 92 percent reported         significantly more energy, and 72 percent reported greater alertness and   more clarity than before they had used noni."         Regarding pain management, Dr. Solomon writes," [In 1990]…Dr. Joseph Betz,    a research chemist with FDA’s Division of Natural Products Center for Food        Safety and Applied Nutrition, had said that noni root is reported "as having      pain killing and tranquilizing properties." He further writes, "Noni was     75% as effective as morphine sulfate in relieving most pain…The researchers       went on to say that ‘noni extract did not exhibit any toxic effects.’ It         is well documented that noni is not addictive."         Here are the list of other M.D.’s that Dr. Solomon acknowledges and thanks      in his book:         Bryant Bloss, M.D., Indiana         Frank Elaty, M.D., Florida         Scott Gerson, M.D., New York         Steven Hall, M.D., Washington         Mona Harrison, M.D., Washington         Dr. Steven M. Hall, MD         "I am a residency trained doctor, a Diplomate of the American Board of Family         Practice who for the past three years has focused my practice exclusivey  on people who have not gotten better from whatever treatment they have tried."         "With Noni, the first thing that people experience is imprived energy."         "Many of the people in my practice with Type II Diabetes don’t have it anymore’. Its noni not moni! It is a complete ripoff, it does nothing for arthritis. Dump the "friends" that are trying to sell you this nonsence! They are just trying to make money off your suffering..Ken Mc

Before you buy.

Response:

HI Wolfgang – We haven’t heard from you for a long time!  Noni is a scam – don’t waste your money. I know Kittie had to give up Enbrel, has she tried Arava or Remicade yet?  Has she tried Celebrex yet?  It’s a cox-2 like Vioxx and it worked better for me. Hang in there! -g- Kitty

Response:

Does anyone here have a response to people who are badgering my wife to try morinda (moni) juice to help her hopeless RA condition? After 30 some years with RA we are of the opinion that it could not be kept a secret if there really was something to this. Does anyone have a bit more factual knowledge about this? Thanks, Wolfgang BTW, the last thing my wife tried was viox and it seemed to help some, but the bad side effects forced her to quit. Wolfgang John http://www.am-woljo.com

Response:

Dear Wolfgang-Its snake oil, plain and simple.  Dont waste your money.  And just tell them, you have better uses for your money. And dont give up hope, Remicade may work for her, or possibly the Prosorba Column.  We have other folks here in the same boat.   Nothing has worked for them. So ask your doctor about Remicade, and Prosorba Column. Char Le Fleur

Response:

Its noni not moni! It is a complete ripoff, it does nothing for arthritis. Dump the "friends" that are trying to sell you this nonsence! They are just trying to make money off your suffering..Ken Mc

Response:

Ahhh noni juice.  We know of it well.  It has been known to cure many people suffering from money problems – the salespeople. If it helps any I read an article today in the Berkely Wellness Letter or something like that.  It said there is no proof of anyone benifitting from this except the multi level salespeople. Kelly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone here have a response to people who are badgering my wife to try morinda (moni) juice to help her hopeless RA condition? After 30 some years with RA we are of the opinion that it could not be kept a secret if there really was something to this. Does anyone have a bit more factual knowledge about this? Thanks, Wolfgang BTW, the last thing my wife tried was viox and it seemed to help some, but the bad side effects forced her to quit. Wolfgang John http://www.am-woljo.com

Response:

Question:

Which proves that even with studies…….some choose not to believe.

The studies didn’t show that noni cures just about everything these scammers have claimed it does,… it’s supposed to cure everything from hangnails to hemorrhoids, old age,dandruff to infertility and anything else they can think up. — Carol…… You know it’s going to be a bad day when: "The bird singing outside your window is a vulture. Before buying health care products on the net see: http://www.quackwatch.com/index.html

Response:

Same old, same old….  another magic potion being hawked on the net, another amid many. — Carol…… Before buying health care products on the net see: http://www.quackwatch.com/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell it, I just take it, and know many others who do.

Response:

Same old, same old….  another magic potion being hawked on the net, another amid many. — Carol……

Which proves that even with studies…….some choose not to believe. Jan

Response:

I don’t sell it, I just take it, and know many others who do. IF YOU THINK IT IS BS… You are either down on what you are not up on, or are you part of the 10 – 15% of all people Noni does not help. Those stats belong to Dr. Neil Solomon, one of the biggest MDs in this country, whose credentials are just below. Morinda does not offer a 100% moneyback guarantee for nothing! I personally know a dozen or more people that no longer have Arthritis, because of Noni. Heck, my friend Bill Taylor in Ellsinore, MO is doing deep knee bends now, and could hardly walk due to an arthritic knee 1 month ago! Here’s what the BIG Doctors say: Dr. Neil Solomon, M.D., PH.D., a big proponent of NONI         * Schwentkner Award winner for excellence in research         * professorship at Johns Hopkins and University of Maryland Schools of Medicine         * Diplomate of the National Board of Medical Examiners         * internationally syndicated medical columnist for the L.A. Times for over  16 years         * former first Secretary of Health and Mental Hygiene for the State of Maryland.         * chairman of the Health, Education and Science Center of the         International Council of Caring Communities         * member of the Health and Science Council of the Communication Coordinating    Commitee for the United Nations.         * author of over 90 publications (including on the Morinda Citrifolia plant)         *Regular guest on Many talk shows including Oprah and the tonite show. Dr. Ralph Heinicke: Xeronine and Cell Regeneration Dr. Heinicke has a Ph.D. in biochemistry and did extensive research for the University of Hawaii. Dr.Ralph Heinicke became aware of the marvelousbenefits of the Morinda Citrifolia Fruit and set out to find the pharmacologically active ingredient of the Morinda Citrifolia. Dr. Heinicke had spent over 45 years studying the effects of an alkaloid he discovered and named xeronine. Xeronine is a relatively small alkaloid which is physiologically very active and important for the proper function of all cells in the body. In his research, Dr. Heinicke discovered that the Morinda Citrifolia juice contacts appreciable amounts of the precursor of xeronine that he named "pro-xeronine." Pro-xeronine releases pure xeronine in the intestines when it comes in contact with a particular enzyme also found in the Morinda Citrifolia juice. Dr. Heinicke’s theory, is that when released, xeronine actually works at the molecular level to repair damaged cells. Dr. Heinicke states that the primary function of xeronine is to regulate the rigidity and shape of specific proteins. Since these proteins have different functions within the cells, this explains how the administrations of Morinda Citrifolia juice causes an unbelievably wide range of physiological responses. Dr. Heinicke has commented as follows: "Some of the problems which drinking Morinda Citrifolia juice might favorably affect are: high blood pressure, menstrual cramps, arthritis, gastric ulcers, sprains, injuries, mental depression, senility, poor digestion, atherosclerosis, blood vessel problems, drug addiction, relief of pain, and many others. Although this list looks like a page torn out of a traveling medicine man’s manual, it is probably Dr Neil Solomon, professor at Johns Hoplins and a member of the American Board of Medical Examiners also uses Noni in his own practice, and says it does little or no harm, and is a generalist and "it is the pharmacy he has been wating all his life for."         Dr. Mona Harrison, M.D.         * former Assistant Dean at the Boston University School of Medicine. * was         Chief Medical Officer at the D.C. General Hospital in Washington, DC.         * recieved an in-house fellowship from Harvard University.         * internationally known for her lectures and her writings.         * has been a keynote speaker at the National Medical Association Convention         Dr. Mona Harrison writes***, "Noni enhances the function of the thyroid and     thymus glands, helping to ward off infections and other problems with the       immune system. It can even reverse depression, because it allows neural hormones       to work." She further adds, "Noni, an ancient remedy, is finally being validated         by breakthroughs in modern technology."         With regards to depression, moods, addictions, and mental alertness. Dr.  Solomon further writes that the "Tahitian noni…contains the greatest serotonin  binding capacity in the Rubiaceae plant family….From over 10,000 people       who used noni supplements, 92 percent reported         significantly more energy, and 72 percent reported greater alertness and   more clarity than before they had used noni."         Regarding pain management, Dr. Solomon writes," [In 1990]…Dr. Joseph Betz,    a research chemist with FDA’s Division of Natural Products Center for Food        Safety and Applied Nutrition, had said that noni root is reported "as having      pain killing and tranquilizing properties." He further writes, "Noni was     75% as effective as morphine sulfate in relieving most pain…The researchers       went on to say that ‘noni extract did not exhibit any toxic effects.’ It         is well documented that noni is not addictive."         Here are the list of other M.D.’s that Dr. Solomon acknowledges and thanks      in his book:         Bryant Bloss, M.D., Indiana         Frank Elaty, M.D., Florida         Scott Gerson, M.D., New York         Steven Hall, M.D., Washington         Mona Harrison, M.D., Washington         Dr. Steven M. Hall, MD         "I am a residency trained doctor, a Diplomate of the American Board of Family         Practice who for the past three years has focused my practice exclusivey  on people who have not gotten better from whatever treatment they have tried."         "With Noni, the first thing that people experience is imprived energy."         "Many of the people in my practice with Type II Diabetes don’t have it anymore’. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sorry to say that you are wrong. There is proof. Perhaps you didn’t know that one of the consituents is a polysaccharide that stimulates the activity of macrophages and T-lymphocytes (ref 21, 26). ECarlos http://www.heal.nu References    1.Elliott, S., Brimacombe, J.: "The Medicinal Plants of Gunung Leuser National Park, Indonesia" Journal of      Ethnopharmacology, 19 (1987) 285-317.    2.Abbott, I., Shimazu, C.: "The Geographic Origin of the Plants Most Commonly Used for Medicine by Hawaiians"      Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 14 (1985) 213-222.    3.Whistler, W.A.: "Traditional and Herbal Medicine in the Cook Islands" Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 13 (1985)      239-280.    4.Singh, Y.N., Ikahihifo, T., Panuve, M., Slater, C.: "Folk Medicine in Tonga" Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 12 (1984)      305-329.    5.Whistler, W.A.: Polynesian Herbal Medicine, Pacific Tropical Botanical Garden, Hong Kong, (1992) 137-174.    6.Dittmar, A.: "Morinda citrifolia-Use in Indigenous Samoan Medicine" Journal of Herbs, Spices and Medicinal Plants,      Vol. 1(3) (1993) 77-93.    7.Krauss, B.H.: Native Plants used as Medicine in Hawaii, Honolulu, 1979.    8.Negata, K.M.: "Hawaiian Medicinal Plants" Economic Botany, 25 (1971).    9.Weiner, M.: "Ethnomedicine in Tonga" Economic Botany, 25 (1971).   10.Morton, J.F.: "The Ocean-Going Noni, or Indian Mulberry (Morinda citrifolia, Rubiaceae) and Some of its ‘Colorful’      Relatives" Economic Botany 46(3) (1992) 241-256.   11.Levand, O.: "Some Chemical Constituents of Morinda citrifolia (noni) (Part 1), and The Structure of the Nitrocamphor      Anhydrides (Part 2). Ph.D. thesis, Univ. of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI, 1963.   12.Sim, H.H.: "The Isolation and Characterization of a Fluorescent Compound from the Fruit of Morinda citrifolia (Noni):      Studes on the 5′HT Receptor System." MS thesis, Univ. of Hawaii, Manoa, HI, 1993.   13.Levand, O., Larson, H.O.: "Some Chemical Constituents of Morinda citrifolia" Planta Med. 36(2) (1979) 186-187.   14.Ahmad, V.U., Bano, S.: "Isolation of beta-sitsterol and ursolic acid from Morinda citrifolia" Journal Chemical Soc. Pak.      2(2) (1980) 71.   15.Bushnell, O.A., Fukuda, M., Makinodan, T.: "The Antibacterial Properties of Some Plants Found in Hawaii" Pacific Sci.      4(3) (1950) 167-183.   16.Krisha Moorthy, N., Shama Reddy, G.: "Preliminary Phytochemical and Pharmacological Study of Morinda citrifolia"      Antiseptic 67(3) (1970) 167-171.   17.Rusia, K., Srivastava, S.K.: "A New Anthraquinone from the Roots of Morinda citrifolia" Curr. Sci. 58(5) (1989) 249.   18.Thompson, R.H.: Naturally Occuring Quinones, 2nd ed. Academic, London, New York. (1971) 373-382, 386, 405,      410-412.   19.Raj, R.K.: "Screening of Indigenous Plants for Antihelmintic Action Against Human Ascaris lumbricoides: part II" Ind. J.      Physiol. Pharmac. 19(1) (1975) 47-49.   20.Hirazumi, A., Furusawa, E., Chou, S.C., Hokama, Y.: "Anticancer Activity of Morinda citrifolia (Noni) on      Intraperitoneally Implanted Lewis Lung Carcinoma in Syngenic Mice" Proc. West. Pharmacol. Soc. 37 (1994)      145-146.   21.Hirazumi, A., Furusawa, E., Chou, S.C., Hokama, Y.: "Immunomodulation Contributes to the Anticancer Activity of      Morinda citrifolia (Noni) Fruit Juice" Proc. West. Pharmacol. Sco. 39 (1996) 7-9.   22.Hirazumi, A. Furusawa, E., Chou, S.C., Hokama, Y.: "Anticancer Activity of Morinda citrifolia Against Lewis Lung      Carcinoma and Rauscher Retroviral Leukemia in Mice (Meeting Abstract) FASEB Journal. 9(3) (1995) A93.   23.Ganal, C.A., Hokama, Y.: "The Effect of Noni Fruit Extract on Thymocytes of BALB/c Mouse (Meeting Abstract).      FASEB Journal. 7(4) (1993) A866.   24.Hiramatsu, T., Imoto, M., Koyano, T., Umezawa, K.: "Induction of Normal Phenotypes in RAS-transformed Cells by      Damnachanthal from Morindal citrifolia" Cancer Letters, 73 (1993) 161-166.   25.Heinicke, R.M.: "The Pharmacologically Active Ingredient of Noni" The Bulletin, Univ. of Hawaii (1985) 10-14.

… read more »

Response:

I was only interested in the legitimacy of the discussion.  Thesedays, there are too many pseudoeducated people trying to educate others.  It is perfectly normal to ask for background information. As for his relationship to the company, I am new here.  This is my third day in this ng. Please pause and think before you yell back at another member of the ng. scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sorry to say that you are wrong. There is proof. Perhaps you didn’t know that one of the consituents is a polysaccharide that stimulates the activity of macrophages and T-lymphocytes (ref 21, 26). ECarlos http://www.heal.nu References    1.Elliott, S., Brimacombe, J.: "The Medicinal Plants of Gunung Leuser National Park, Indonesia" Journal of      Ethnopharmacology, 19 (1987) 285-317.    2.Abbott, I., Shimazu, C.: "The Geographic Origin of the Plants Most Commonly Used for Medicine by Hawaiians"      Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 14 (1985) 213-222.    3.Whistler, W.A.: "Traditional and Herbal Medicine in the Cook Islands" Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 13 (1985)      239-280.    4.Singh, Y.N., Ikahihifo, T., Panuve, M., Slater, C.: "Folk Medicine in Tonga" Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 12 (1984)      305-329.    5.Whistler, W.A.: Polynesian Herbal Medicine, Pacific Tropical Botanical Garden, Hong Kong, (1992) 137-174.    6.Dittmar, A.: "Morinda citrifolia-Use in Indigenous Samoan Medicine" Journal of Herbs, Spices and Medicinal Plants,      Vol. 1(3) (1993) 77-93.    7.Krauss, B.H.: Native Plants used as Medicine in Hawaii, Honolulu, 1979.    8.Negata, K.M.: "Hawaiian Medicinal Plants" Economic Botany, 25 (1971).    9.Weiner, M.: "Ethnomedicine in Tonga" Economic Botany, 25 (1971).   10.Morton, J.F.: "The Ocean-Going Noni, or Indian Mulberry (Morinda citrifolia, Rubiaceae) and Some of its ‘Colorful’      Relatives" Economic Botany 46(3) (1992) 241-256.   11.Levand, O.: "Some Chemical Constituents of Morinda citrifolia (noni) (Part 1), and The Structure of the Nitrocamphor      Anhydrides (Part 2). Ph.D. thesis, Univ. of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI, 1963.   12.Sim, H.H.: "The Isolation and Characterization of a Fluorescent Compound from the Fruit of Morinda citrifolia (Noni):      Studes on the 5′HT Receptor System." MS thesis, Univ. of Hawaii, Manoa, HI, 1993.   13.Levand, O., Larson, H.O.: "Some Chemical Constituents of Morinda citrifolia" Planta Med. 36(2) (1979) 186-187.   14.Ahmad, V.U., Bano, S.: "Isolation of beta-sitsterol and ursolic acid from Morinda citrifolia" Journal Chemical Soc. Pak.      2(2) (1980) 71.   15.Bushnell, O.A., Fukuda, M., Makinodan, T.: "The Antibacterial Properties of Some Plants Found in Hawaii" Pacific Sci.      4(3) (1950) 167-183.   16.Krisha Moorthy, N., Shama Reddy, G.: "Preliminary Phytochemical and Pharmacological Study of Morinda citrifolia"      Antiseptic 67(3) (1970) 167-171.   17.Rusia, K., Srivastava, S.K.: "A New Anthraquinone from the Roots of Morinda citrifolia" Curr. Sci. 58(5) (1989) 249.   18.Thompson, R.H.: Naturally Occuring Quinones, 2nd ed. Academic, London, New York. (1971) 373-382, 386, 405,      410-412.   19.Raj, R.K.: "Screening of Indigenous Plants for Antihelmintic Action Against Human Ascaris lumbricoides: part II" Ind. J.      Physiol. Pharmac. 19(1) (1975) 47-49.   20.Hirazumi, A., Furusawa, E., Chou, S.C., Hokama, Y.: "Anticancer Activity of Morinda citrifolia (Noni) on      Intraperitoneally Implanted Lewis Lung Carcinoma in Syngenic Mice" Proc. West. Pharmacol. Soc. 37 (1994)      145-146.   21.Hirazumi, A., Furusawa, E., Chou, S.C., Hokama, Y.: "Immunomodulation Contributes to the Anticancer Activity of      Morinda citrifolia (Noni) Fruit Juice" Proc. West. Pharmacol. Sco. 39 (1996) 7-9.   22.Hirazumi, A. Furusawa, E., Chou, S.C., Hokama, Y.: "Anticancer Activity of Morinda citrifolia Against Lewis Lung      Carcinoma and Rauscher Retroviral Leukemia in Mice (Meeting Abstract) FASEB Journal. 9(3) (1995) A93.   23.Ganal, C.A., Hokama, Y.: "The Effect of Noni Fruit Extract on Thymocytes of BALB/c Mouse (Meeting Abstract).      FASEB Journal. 7(4) (1993) A866.   24.Hiramatsu, T., Imoto, M., Koyano, T., Umezawa, K.: "Induction of Normal Phenotypes in RAS-transformed Cells by      Damnachanthal from Morindal citrifolia" Cancer Letters, 73 (1993) 161-166.   25.Heinicke, R.M.: "The Pharmacologically Active Ingredient of Noni" The Bulletin, Univ. of Hawaii (1985) 10-14.   26.See, D.M.: University of California, Irvine, College of Medicine, Division of Infectious Diseases, Personal      Communication. Oct. 1997. I also got my daughter to try Tahitian Noni Juice. It works because it enhances the immune system, generating form NK Killer / T Cells which help fight bacterial and viral infections. $$$ And that is pure BS!  There is no proof that this overpriced juice does anything for the immune system… it does FATTEN the wallets of the purveyors however.

Response:

Second, eric do you work for this company? I seem to remember that in previous postings he made it quite clear that he did work for them. He was not trying to cover that up. However, I could be wrong as I am saying this from memory, and have deleted the original posting.

no, you are correct.  he did admit to working for the company. and he did come back and "debate". i admire that in a spammer. Third, what is your education/qualification?

what exactly does that have to do with anything??? why is everyone (skeptic) hung up on formal education??? some of the *smartest* people i know would not go/have not been near a college. Is that relevant? If I tell you that the square root of 16 is 4, does the fact that I have an Oxford University degree in Mathematics make any difference to whether you believe me or not? If your argument is sound then it does not matter who you are. By the same reasoning, you could be the Lilly Distinguished Professor of Pharmacognosy at Purdue University and still talk a load of bolollocks.

bravo, totally….! Robyn Who doesn’t work for them, really does have an Oxford degree, but has never tried Tahitian Noni juice in her life and has no idea if it is really any good, but avoids anything all that expensive on principle, and hence has no actual reason other than contrariness for getting into this thread in the first place.

hey, are you my long lost twin????? i love you man!!!!!

Response:

Firts thing, I applaud those who cite their references.  Too many of us dont.  However, these are "less than distinguished journals" with few exceptions.

Really? What is wrong with them? Journal of Ethnopharmacology is published by Elsevier who I always understood to have an excellent reputation. It is certainly flipping pricey enough. Second, eric do you work for this company?

I seem to remember that in previous postings he made it quite clear that he did work for them. He was not trying to cover that up. However, I could be wrong as I am saying this from memory, and have deleted the original posting. Third, what is your education/qualification?

Is that relevant? If I tell you that the square root of 16 is 4, does the fact that I have an Oxford University degree in Mathematics make any difference to whether you believe me or not? If your argument is sound then it does not matter who you are. By the same reasoning, you could be the Lilly Distinguished Professor of Pharmacognosy at Purdue University and still talk a load of bolollocks. Robyn Who doesn’t work for them, really does have an Oxford degree, but has never tried Tahitian Noni juice in her life and has no idea if it is really any good, but avoids anything all that expensive on principle, and hence has no actual reason other than contrariness for getting into this thread in the first place.

Response:

Firts thing, I applaud those who cite their references.  Too many of us dont.  However, these are "less than distinguished journals" with few exceptions. Second, eric do you work for this company? Third, what is your education/qualification? scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sorry to say that you are wrong. There is proof. Perhaps you didn’t know that one of the consituents is a polysaccharide that stimulates the activity of macrophages and T-lymphocytes (ref 21, 26). ECarlos http://www.heal.nu References    1.Elliott, S., Brimacombe, J.: "The Medicinal Plants of Gunung Leuser National Park, Indonesia" Journal of      Ethnopharmacology, 19 (1987) 285-317.    2.Abbott, I., Shimazu, C.: "The Geographic Origin of the Plants Most Commonly Used for Medicine by Hawaiians"      Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 14 (1985) 213-222.    3.Whistler, W.A.: "Traditional and Herbal Medicine in the Cook Islands" Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 13 (1985)      239-280.    4.Singh, Y.N., Ikahihifo, T., Panuve, M., Slater, C.: "Folk Medicine in Tonga" Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 12 (1984)      305-329.    5.Whistler, W.A.: Polynesian Herbal Medicine, Pacific Tropical Botanical Garden, Hong Kong, (1992) 137-174.    6.Dittmar, A.: "Morinda citrifolia-Use in Indigenous Samoan Medicine" Journal of Herbs, Spices and Medicinal Plants,      Vol. 1(3) (1993) 77-93.    7.Krauss, B.H.: Native Plants used as Medicine in Hawaii, Honolulu, 1979.    8.Negata, K.M.: "Hawaiian Medicinal Plants" Economic Botany, 25 (1971).    9.Weiner, M.: "Ethnomedicine in Tonga" Economic Botany, 25 (1971).   10.Morton, J.F.: "The Ocean-Going Noni, or Indian Mulberry (Morinda citrifolia, Rubiaceae) and Some of its ‘Colorful’      Relatives" Economic Botany 46(3) (1992) 241-256.   11.Levand, O.: "Some Chemical Constituents of Morinda citrifolia (noni) (Part 1), and The Structure of the Nitrocamphor      Anhydrides (Part 2). Ph.D. thesis, Univ. of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI, 1963.   12.Sim, H.H.: "The Isolation and Characterization of a Fluorescent Compound from the Fruit of Morinda citrifolia (Noni):      Studes on the 5′HT Receptor System." MS thesis, Univ. of Hawaii, Manoa, HI, 1993.   13.Levand, O., Larson, H.O.: "Some Chemical Constituents of Morinda citrifolia" Planta Med. 36(2) (1979) 186-187.   14.Ahmad, V.U., Bano, S.: "Isolation of beta-sitsterol and ursolic acid from Morinda citrifolia" Journal Chemical Soc. Pak.      2(2) (1980) 71.   15.Bushnell, O.A., Fukuda, M., Makinodan, T.: "The Antibacterial Properties of Some Plants Found in Hawaii" Pacific Sci.      4(3) (1950) 167-183.   16.Krisha Moorthy, N., Shama Reddy, G.: "Preliminary Phytochemical and Pharmacological Study of Morinda citrifolia"      Antiseptic 67(3) (1970) 167-171.   17.Rusia, K., Srivastava, S.K.: "A New Anthraquinone from the Roots of Morinda citrifolia" Curr. Sci. 58(5) (1989) 249.   18.Thompson, R.H.: Naturally Occuring Quinones, 2nd ed. Academic, London, New York. (1971) 373-382, 386, 405,      410-412.   19.Raj, R.K.: "Screening of Indigenous Plants for Antihelmintic Action Against Human Ascaris lumbricoides: part II" Ind. J.      Physiol. Pharmac. 19(1) (1975) 47-49.   20.Hirazumi, A., Furusawa, E., Chou, S.C., Hokama, Y.: "Anticancer Activity of Morinda citrifolia (Noni) on      Intraperitoneally Implanted Lewis Lung Carcinoma in Syngenic Mice" Proc. West. Pharmacol. Soc. 37 (1994)      145-146.   21.Hirazumi, A., Furusawa, E., Chou, S.C., Hokama, Y.: "Immunomodulation Contributes to the Anticancer Activity of      Morinda citrifolia (Noni) Fruit Juice" Proc. West. Pharmacol. Sco. 39 (1996) 7-9.   22.Hirazumi, A. Furusawa, E., Chou, S.C., Hokama, Y.: "Anticancer Activity of Morinda citrifolia Against Lewis Lung      Carcinoma and Rauscher Retroviral Leukemia in Mice (Meeting Abstract) FASEB Journal. 9(3) (1995) A93.   23.Ganal, C.A., Hokama, Y.: "The Effect of Noni Fruit Extract on Thymocytes of BALB/c Mouse (Meeting Abstract).      FASEB Journal. 7(4) (1993) A866.   24.Hiramatsu, T., Imoto, M., Koyano, T., Umezawa, K.: "Induction of Normal Phenotypes in RAS-transformed Cells by      Damnachanthal from Morindal citrifolia" Cancer Letters, 73 (1993) 161-166.   25.Heinicke, R.M.: "The Pharmacologically Active Ingredient of Noni" The Bulletin, Univ. of Hawaii (1985) 10-14.   26.See, D.M.: University of California, Irvine, College of Medicine, Division of Infectious Diseases, Personal      Communication. Oct. 1997. I also got my daughter to try Tahitian Noni Juice. It works because it enhances the immune system, generating form NK Killer / T Cells which help fight bacterial and viral infections. $$$ And that is pure BS!  There is no proof that this overpriced juice does anything for the immune system… it does FATTEN the wallets of the purveyors however.

Response:

| extensive references snipped for brevity but saved for future He posted no info FROM any of these references. In the past when I have spent time looking at some of the references I’ve seen on these health groups they did NOT agree with what the posters claimed.  Why waste my time again?   —  Carol…   "If they don’t have Chocolate in Heaven I ain’t going." Before buying health products on the net see: http://www.quackwatch.com/index.html   and http://www.healthwatcher.net/ |

Response:

Time. Precious Time…. What’s the difference between the environment and nutrients found within our foods (ie.vegetables, fruits) say, 35 years ago and that found today? There are less nutrients in foods today due to for example, nutrient/soil depletion, early harvesting (to factor in delivery time-to-market), etc. Not to mention also , that there are more and more pollutants being displaced into the environment. The percentage of people with various diseases is rising. What I’m worried about is the future : our children’s and their children’s health, with all the above negative things happening. You have a good point about YOU and your colleages surviving to old age without dietary supplements; perhaps you yourself do not need to take dietary supplements?  But, considering the above, can/do future generations need to consider taking dietary supplements in order to live to a ripe old age? Prevention Magazine , just like you, pointed the "Quackery" finger at this "magical" noni juice also…you can read the article at http://www.neptune.spaceports.com/%7Enoni/article.html  . And about the expensive price – expensive relative to what? When does it become too expensive? Ask the lady who had very poor blood circulation in her leg but later was saved from having to have her leg amputated because of what she felt the noni juice did for her… Ask the lady who had been suffering from years and years of pain and now is able to spend time at the park with her grandchildren everyday… When does it become too expensive…at $30 ? at $40 for these types of results ? (More results also at http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/globalnoni/testinonials2.htm ) Nevertheless, is this noni juice too expensive if Independent Morinda(R) Distributors are empowered by Morinda Inc to offer an unconditional 100% money back satisfaction guarantee even after 90 days of usage?  The worst case scenario: using the TAHITIAN NONI(R) juice for free! Still too expensive then? Also, try and get your money back after 3 months of using your local drug store’s dietary supplements…perhaps THAT’S expensive. But I really do have to thank you for reminding everyone that Morinda’s TAHITIAN NONI(R) juice is expensive. It reminds us of the quality. It reminds us of the value. It reminds us of the time put into the care of our product. I have no argument with these other noni copy-cat companies who sell their cheaper brands of "noni" products. After all, only they know best what their products are worth. ECarlos (604) 880-7697 http://www.heal.nu – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And next you’re going to tell us that ONLY expensive noni juice contains this polysaccharide right? Sorry but I don’t have time to track down and read all these references.  How did we all survive to old age without this MAGIC juice?  :o) —  Carol… "If they don’t have Chocolate in Heaven I ain’t going." Before buying health products on the net see: http://www.quackwatch.com/index.html   and http://www.healthwatcher.net/ | I am sorry to say that you are wrong.

Response:

<BONG! Hmm. Faulty logic. Just because references you have reviewed in the past did not appear satisfactory, it means that the specific references that I have posted here (and most likely not related to the references you had reviewed) are also not satisfactory? These references were posted for everyone who was interested to have a chance to check them out and make their own informed decisions for themselves.   It’s up to you … no one is forcing YOU to "waste your time".. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | extensive references snipped for brevity but saved for future He posted no info FROM any of these references. In the past when I have spent time looking at some of the references I’ve seen on these health groups they did NOT agree with what the posters claimed.  Why waste my time again? —  Carol… "If they don’t have Chocolate in Heaven I ain’t going." Before buying health products on the net see: http://www.quackwatch.com/index.html   and http://www.healthwatcher.net/ |

Response:

I thought that I read somewhere that the P.O. threw them out.  Am I mistaken?

No, they arrived back with me this morning, 70 days after I posted them.   Return to sender, Package Unclaimed, No such number, no such …… <g That’s why I’m offering to send them again.   Carol now knows that I did send them and I’m reasonably honest, so she might send me an address that works. Best wishes John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

John, I thought that I read somewhere that the P.O. threw them out.  Am I mistaken? Marlynn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Carol, The press clippings I sent you have just arrived back marked "UNCLAIMED".   Do you want to give me another address to send them to?   Have you any friends who will take them for you? Best wishes John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

Hi Carol, The press clippings I sent you have just arrived back marked "UNCLAIMED".   Do you want to give me another address to send them to?   Have you any friends who will take them for you? Best wishes John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sorry to say that you are wrong. There is proof. Perhaps you didn’t know that one of the consituents is a polysaccharide that stimulates the activity of macrophages and T-lymphocytes (ref 21, 26). ECarlos http://www.heal.nu References extensive references snipped for brevity but saved for future

Response:

And next you’re going to tell us that ONLY expensive noni juice contains this polysaccharide right? Sorry but I don’t have time to track down and read all these references.  How did we all survive to old age without this MAGIC juice?  :o) —  Carol…   "If they don’t have Chocolate in Heaven I ain’t going." Before buying health products on the net see: http://www.quackwatch.com/index.html   and http://www.healthwatcher.net/ | I am sorry to say that you are wrong.

Response:

I also got my daughter to try Tahitian Noni Juice. It works because it enhances the immune system, generating form NK Killer / T Cells which help fight bacterial and viral infections.

$$$ And that is pure BS!  There is no proof that this overpriced juice does anything for the immune system… it does FATTEN the wallets of the purveyors however. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I am sorry to say that you are wrong. There is proof. Perhaps you didn’t know that one of the consituents is a polysaccharide that stimulates the activity of macrophages and T-lymphocytes (ref 21, 26). ECarlos http://www.heal.nu References    1.Elliott, S., Brimacombe, J.: "The Medicinal Plants of Gunung Leuser National Park, Indonesia" Journal of      Ethnopharmacology, 19 (1987) 285-317.    2.Abbott, I., Shimazu, C.: "The Geographic Origin of the Plants Most Commonly Used for Medicine by Hawaiians"      Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 14 (1985) 213-222.    3.Whistler, W.A.: "Traditional and Herbal Medicine in the Cook Islands" Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 13 (1985)      239-280.    4.Singh, Y.N., Ikahihifo, T., Panuve, M., Slater, C.: "Folk Medicine in Tonga" Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 12 (1984)      305-329.    5.Whistler, W.A.: Polynesian Herbal Medicine, Pacific Tropical Botanical Garden, Hong Kong, (1992) 137-174.    6.Dittmar, A.: "Morinda citrifolia-Use in Indigenous Samoan Medicine" Journal of Herbs, Spices and Medicinal Plants,      Vol. 1(3) (1993) 77-93.    7.Krauss, B.H.: Native Plants used as Medicine in Hawaii, Honolulu, 1979.    8.Negata, K.M.: "Hawaiian Medicinal Plants" Economic Botany, 25 (1971).    9.Weiner, M.: "Ethnomedicine in Tonga" Economic Botany, 25 (1971).   10.Morton, J.F.: "The Ocean-Going Noni, or Indian Mulberry (Morinda citrifolia, Rubiaceae) and Some of its ‘Colorful’      Relatives" Economic Botany 46(3) (1992) 241-256.   11.Levand, O.: "Some Chemical Constituents of Morinda citrifolia (noni) (Part 1), and The Structure of the Nitrocamphor      Anhydrides (Part 2). Ph.D. thesis, Univ. of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI, 1963.   12.Sim, H.H.: "The Isolation and Characterization of a Fluorescent Compound from the Fruit of Morinda citrifolia (Noni):      Studes on the 5′HT Receptor System." MS thesis, Univ. of Hawaii, Manoa, HI, 1993.   13.Levand, O., Larson, H.O.: "Some Chemical Constituents of Morinda citrifolia" Planta Med. 36(2) (1979) 186-187.   14.Ahmad, V.U., Bano, S.: "Isolation of beta-sitsterol and ursolic acid from Morinda citrifolia" Journal Chemical Soc. Pak.      2(2) (1980) 71.   15.Bushnell, O.A., Fukuda, M., Makinodan, T.: "The Antibacterial Properties of Some Plants Found in Hawaii" Pacific Sci.      4(3) (1950) 167-183.   16.Krisha Moorthy, N., Shama Reddy, G.: "Preliminary Phytochemical and Pharmacological Study of Morinda citrifolia"      Antiseptic 67(3) (1970) 167-171.   17.Rusia, K., Srivastava, S.K.: "A New Anthraquinone from the Roots of Morinda citrifolia" Curr. Sci. 58(5) (1989) 249.   18.Thompson, R.H.: Naturally Occuring Quinones, 2nd ed. Academic, London, New York. (1971) 373-382, 386, 405,      410-412.   19.Raj, R.K.: "Screening of Indigenous Plants for Antihelmintic Action Against Human Ascaris lumbricoides: part II" Ind. J.      Physiol. Pharmac. 19(1) (1975) 47-49.   20.Hirazumi, A., Furusawa, E., Chou, S.C., Hokama, Y.: "Anticancer Activity of Morinda citrifolia (Noni) on      Intraperitoneally Implanted Lewis Lung Carcinoma in Syngenic Mice" Proc. West. Pharmacol. Soc. 37 (1994)      145-146.   21.Hirazumi, A., Furusawa, E., Chou, S.C., Hokama, Y.: "Immunomodulation Contributes to the Anticancer Activity of      Morinda citrifolia (Noni) Fruit Juice" Proc. West. Pharmacol. Sco. 39 (1996) 7-9.   22.Hirazumi, A. Furusawa, E., Chou, S.C., Hokama, Y.: "Anticancer Activity of Morinda citrifolia Against Lewis Lung      Carcinoma and Rauscher Retroviral Leukemia in Mice (Meeting Abstract) FASEB Journal. 9(3) (1995) A93.   23.Ganal, C.A., Hokama, Y.: "The Effect of Noni Fruit Extract on Thymocytes of BALB/c Mouse (Meeting Abstract).      FASEB Journal. 7(4) (1993) A866.   24.Hiramatsu, T., Imoto, M., Koyano, T., Umezawa, K.: "Induction of Normal Phenotypes in RAS-transformed Cells by      Damnachanthal from Morindal citrifolia" Cancer Letters, 73 (1993) 161-166.   25.Heinicke, R.M.: "The Pharmacologically Active Ingredient of Noni" The Bulletin, Univ. of Hawaii (1985) 10-14.   26.See, D.M.: University of California, Irvine, College of Medicine, Division of Infectious Diseases, Personal      Communication. Oct. 1997. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I also got my daughter to try Tahitian Noni Juice. It works because it enhances the immune system, generating form NK Killer / T Cells which help fight bacterial and viral infections. $$$ And that is pure BS!  There is no proof that this overpriced juice does anything for the immune system… it does FATTEN the wallets of the purveyors however.

Response:

You can cure an UTI by drinking lots of water.(3l water in 3 hours.) J.P.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found this group but was too late opening this post…it was no longer available on the server. If there were any herbal remedies for this…please  post again. Thanks! Arkansas Deb In response to your post in the news groups misc.health.alternative,own.health.herbs There are about twenty-seven different herbs that can help with urinary track infections. Here is a list of each of them. Arrowroot Bilberry Buchu Burdock Chicory Cleavers Cornsilk Couchgrass Cranberry Echinacea Gardenia Haritaki Horseradish Hydranea Juniper Kava Knotweed Marshmallow Meadowsweet Nettle Pipsissewa Plantain Purslane Sandalwood Spilanthes Uva-ursi Willow We use Nettle and Buchu along with ten other herbs, vitamins and minerals in our prostate formula.  Known as E- Z Prostate http://www.amazondiscovery.com/prostate.htm If you would like to receive more information on an individual herb listed above as far as. Latin name, Alternative names, Family, Parts used, Properties, Internal uses, Internal Applications, Topical Uses, Topical Applications, Culinary uses, Energetics, Chemical Constituents.  Feel free to contact me. "Warm Regards" ~Clarence~ Website Manager Amazon Discovery

Blueberry works like the cranberry.

Response:

I just found this group but was too late opening this post…it was no longer available on the server. If there were any herbal remedies for this…please  post again. Thanks! Arkansas Deb

In response to your post in the news groups misc.health.alternative,own.health.herbs There are about twenty-seven different herbs that can help with urinary track infections. Here is a list of each of them. Arrowroot Bilberry Buchu Burdock Chicory Cleavers Cornsilk Couchgrass Cranberry Echinacea Gardenia Haritaki Horseradish Hydranea Juniper Kava Knotweed Marshmallow Meadowsweet Nettle Pipsissewa Plantain Purslane Sandalwood Spilanthes Uva-ursi Willow We use Nettle and Buchu along with ten other herbs, vitamins and minerals in our prostate formula.  Known as E- Z Prostate http://www.amazondiscovery.com/prostate.htm If you would like to receive more information on an individual herb listed above as far as. Latin name, Alternative names, Family, Parts used, Properties, Internal uses, Internal Applications, Topical Uses, Topical Applications, Culinary uses, Energetics, Chemical Constituents.  Feel free to contact me. "Warm Regards" ~Clarence~ Website Manager Amazon Discovery http://www.amazondiscovery.com FREE Monthly Giveaway FREE Banner Exchange FREE Link Exchange Enter our product giveaway at http://www.amazondiscovery.com/contest.htm Ten bottles are given away by a random drawing each month and are posted in our News & Giveaway Ezine.  Along with alternative health and health related topics.  No purchase is nessary to win.

Response:

Hi Deb, there are a lot of remedies for UTIs but to tailor the herbs we need to know a little more about the signs and symptoms,,, when did it start? what were you doing before it started?  is it painful to urinate? is it in your bladder, ureters, urethra, kidneys… do you pee blood?  do you have lower back pain? etc. etc. I hope you have at least been checked out by a competent therapist (whether MD/ND/Herbalist etc. and have some appropriate labs done so we know if you have blood cells or casts in your urine…) as it is now we dont know whether you have something as mild as honeymoon cystitis or something as wicked as pyelonephritis! -your kidneys and later quality of life may depend on this…     It amazes me how people will throw out a few symptoms like these onto the web…   good luck, James – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arkansas Deb In response to your post in the news groups misc.health.alternative,own.health.herbs There are about twenty-seven different herbs that can help with urinary track infections. Here is a list of each of them. Arrowroot Bilberry Buchu Burdock Chicory Cleavers Cornsilk Couchgrass Cranberry Echinacea Gardenia Haritaki Horseradish Hydranea Juniper Kava Knotweed Marshmallow Meadowsweet Nettle Pipsissewa Plantain Purslane Sandalwood Spilanthes Uva-ursi Willow We use Nettle and Buchu along with ten other herbs, vitamins and minerals in our prostate formula.  Known as E- Z Prostate http://www.amazondiscovery.com/prostate.htm If you would like to receive more information on an individual herb listed above as far as. Latin name, Alternative names, Family, Parts used, Properties, Internal uses, Internal Applications, Topical Uses, Topical Applications, Culinary uses, Energetics, Chemical Constituents.  Feel free to contact me. "Warm Regards" ~Clarence~ Website Manager Amazon Discovery http://www.amazondiscovery.com FREE Monthly Giveaway FREE Banner Exchange FREE Link Exchange Enter our product giveaway at http://www.amazondiscovery.com/contest.htm Ten bottles are given away by a random drawing each month and are posted in our News & Giveaway Ezine.  Along with alternative health and health related topics.  No purchase is nessary to win.

Response:

Question:

I was excersizing cut back not that I was eating more than normal and nothing worked. just kept gaining and the strange thing that I noticed about it was that although I was gaining a lot of weight I wasn’t gaining in my face

I’m exactly the same way. I’ve gained weight due to lupron and some other medications I’ve taken in the past year and cannot lose it.  I diet, exercise… Most of the weight is in my stomach.  Not fun.  Sigh denise

Response:

I have had that similar problem recently. I was told that sometimes you can have problems with your pituitary gland that cause such a small delay in the function of the thyroid. It is enough however to cause the weight gain. Have they put you on any meds recently. I gained about 60lbs over 6mo. I was excersizing cut back not that I was eating more than normal and nothing worked. just kept gaining and the strange thing that I noticed about it was that although I was gaining a lot of weight I wasn’t gaining in my face like you normaly would if it was just weight gain. Weird huh. Well let me know what you find out Lisa

Response:

I forgot to mention this in my intro post, so I’ll ask here.  Can endo resurgence result in weight gain?  After the birth of my son 16 months ago, I slowly returned to my pre-pregnancy weight at my son’s first birthday, only to gain 15 pounds in the last three months!  About 6 weeks ago, when I felt like I was gaining weight like gang busters, I stopped eating chocolate and other junk food, yet it’s had no real impact, and I feel as big as I did when I weighed 40 pounds more in 1994.  I’m starting to think that it isn’t really fat, but fluid or something.   Could this be endo-related or is it just wishful thinking?

Response:

Question:

In article <37133bcf.117638…@news.panix.com

,

  donw…@spamnot.com (Don Wiss) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, "Aileen Lennon" <aile…@indigo.ie wrote: His symptoms were severe excema and breathing problems. Not uncommon dairy problems. Firstly move to soya-based products.  There are worries over genetically-modified soya in the US, And other kinds of worries outside the US: Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, new research has forced the New Zealand government to issue a fresh health warning. Phyoestrogens in soy can adversely affect the hormonal development of infants and impair the function of the thyroid gland. Low thyroid function is associated with increased risk of heart disease, whereas serum cholesterol levels do not show any correlation risk for CHD.*

Hmmmm.  <light bulb over head

.  I was fed on soya formula as an infant

(weaned early then discovered to be cows milk intolerant).  I’ve been checked several times for thyroid abnormality because I have an enlarged thyroid, each time thyroid activity has been normal and the assumption was that my thyroid grew to compensate for low thyroid activity.  I suspect there may be a link having read this. By the by, I actually grew up in New Zealand. Megan Farr,   Odense, Denmark    (for now…) http://freespace.virgin.net/megan.farr/ sorry, the web page is a little out of date right now! ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Response:

On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, "Tanya Bumgardner" <tbumgard…@mindspring.com

wrote:   As of my recent education I have cut out dairy completely, but for awhile after the elimination diet, I really struggled because I didn’t realize how much dairy was hidden in food. I feel a little uneasy because I feel ignorant on the whole subject.

Several people have sites on the web listing hidden dairy. This annotated link page points to them:   The No Milk Page:            http://www.NoMilk.com/ Then here are two sites with dairy-free recipes:   PaleoFood Recipe Collection: http://www.PaleoFood.com/   No-Milk Mailing List:        http://www.NoMilk.com/list.html Don (donwiss at panix com).

Response:

I was recently diagnosed with a dairy allergy or intolerance (the doctor put me on an elimination diet.  I haven’t been tested yet to see if it is a true allergy or not).  The doctor gave me very little education on the subject, but I’ve been doing some research on my own and had a few questions: 1.  If this is a true allergy, can the symptoms get worse?  Right now I don’t seem to have a severe case but I’ve heard it can develop into anaphylaxis at any time. 2.  Is it normal for symptoms to vary?  For example, when I’ve eaten cheese, sometimes I have bad intestinal problems and sometimes nothing.  With other dairy, I might just get a bad headache.  Others times I might get a rash. Sometimes, my heart will pound combined with bad intestinal problems.  I’ve cut out dairy completely now, but I want to be sure of the symptoms in case I accidently ingest it. I will probably see an allergist for more help now that I know more, but any help in the meantime is greatly appreciated.  As of my recent education I have cut out dairy completely, but for awhile after the elimination diet, I really struggled because I didn’t realize how much dairy was hidden in food. I feel a little uneasy because I feel ignorant on the whole subject. Thanks Tanya

Response:

Tanya Bumgardner wrote:

I was recently diagnosed with a dairy allergy or intolerance (the doctor put me on an elimination diet.  I haven’t been tested yet to see if it is a true allergy or not).  The doctor gave me very little education on the subject, but I’ve been doing some research on my own and had a few questions: 1.  If this is a true allergy, can the symptoms get worse?  Right now I don’t seem to have a severe case but I’ve heard it can develop into anaphylaxis at any time.

Yes, it can.  If you are allergic to something, you need to avoid it absolutely.

2.  Is it normal for symptoms to vary?  For example, when I’ve eaten cheese, sometimes I have bad intestinal problems and sometimes nothing.  With other dairy, I might just get a bad headache.  Others times I might get a rash. Sometimes, my heart will pound combined with bad intestinal problems.  I’ve cut out dairy completely now, but I want to be sure of the symptoms in case I accidently ingest it.

This sounds more like lactose intolerance than it does like allergy.  If so, there are medications you can take to enable you to eat some dairy. You need to learn to read labels carefully, as a lot of foods you wouldn’t suspect have dairy in them. Chris Owens

Response:

donw…@spamnot.com (Don Wiss) writes:

The Swiss Bureau of Public Health advised their paediatricians in 1997, [translated for anglophiles]:    As far as we [Swiss] are concerned, soybean products should not    be used routinely to feed healthy babies but should be used only    in the few cases where medically indicated (lactose intolerance,    galactosaemia and, depending on circumstances, intolerance of or    allergy to cow’s milk protein); and in no case for ecological,    ideological or ethical reasons!

I find that last phrase extremely scary.  What they are saying is that parents have no right to make ideological decisions about what to feed their children.  Why don’t they come right out and make pork compulsory for Jewish babies while they’re at it? Switzerland is not a place noted for tolerance of minority cultures (and, be it noted, has a rather significant dairying industry).  This attitude had better be stopped from spreading.  What it reminds me of is the way screws in British jails typically compel Rastafarian and Muslim prisoners to either eat foods forbidden by their religion or starve. Of course, I’m not disagreeing with this *medical* assessment of soya – but there are more important values than medical ones, and freedom to choose what to eat on moral grounds is one of them. Doctors and dietitians have no business telling vegan patients to get a new moral code; it’s their job to explain the implications of a vegan diet and be constructive in helping the patient manage it if he or she regards it as non-negotiable.  Any other attitude is that of a mediaeval pogromist. —

email to "jc" at this site: email to "jack"  or "bogus" will bounce <—

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

Response:

Tanya – this is the exact same route I took.  I now have anaphylactic reactions to milk.  2 bites of a bun with trace amounts of butter (tasted it the second bite) closed my airway, gave me a killer headache, made me crabby, made my eye twitch uncontrollably, and gave me a huge panic attack (rather difficult to handle when you cant breathe).  As a child I would get horrible stomache cramps and had eczema everywhere.  My tollerance got lower and lower until I started to have very scary and immediate reactions.  Skin test came back negative, but allergist said that considering the symptoms and the elimination of milk resolving the problems, that there was no question about the allergy.  I carry an epi-pen at all times. Manda 28 yr old milk allergic mommy with a 2 gal o’ milk a day drinkin’ family.

Response:

Intolerances (IgG reactions or other metabolic problems such as lactose intolerance) don’t, but their effects can be cumulative so you get steadily sicker (one obvious example of this is allergic arthritis – after enough damage has accumulated, the joint can’t ever heal).

That sounds like me. I’m beginning to wonder if I’m lactose intolerant.  I got sick about 6 years ago, some doctors told me I was crazy, some told me I had chronic fatigue, but I gradually got sicker and sicker.  When I went on the elimination diet, all of my symptoms went away–especially aching and sore spots near my joints.

Hang in there.  Everybody feels like that.  You walk round the super- market and it looks like half the packets are versions of the Spring Surprise chocolates in the Monty Python sketch (with a tensioned spring in the centre to stab you in the cheeks when you suck through to it).  You think, why the &*#@ did they need to put milk in *that*?

I’m happy to know I’m not alone.  On one hand, I’m so relieved to now know what was making me sick for years.  But on the other, I’m now discouraged by the effort.  But hey, I’ll get over it.  It’s worth it if it makes me feel better. Thanks for your help (and everyone else who responded), Tanya

Response:

"Tanya Bumgardner" <tbumgard…@mindspring.com

writes: I was recently diagnosed with a dairy allergy or intolerance [...] 1.  If this is a true allergy, can the symptoms get worse?  Right now I don’t seem to have a severe case but I’ve heard it can develop into anaphylaxis at any time.

True allergies (IgE reactions) can.  Intolerances (IgG reactions or other metabolic problems such as lactose intolerance) don’t, but their effects can be cumulative so you get steadily sicker (one obvious example of this is allergic arthritis – after enough damage has accumulated, the joint can’t ever heal).

2.  Is it normal for symptoms to vary?  For example, when I’ve eaten cheese, sometimes I have bad intestinal problems and sometimes nothing. With other dairy, I might just get a bad headache.  Others times I might get a rash.  Sometimes, my heart will pound combined with bad intestinal problems.

You could have multiple intolerances to different components of milk, with each component setting off a different kind of reaction.

As of my recent education I have cut out dairy completely, but for awhile after the elimination diet, I really struggled because I didn’t realize how much dairy was hidden in food.

Hang in there.  Everybody feels like that.  You walk round the super- market and it looks like half the packets are versions of the Spring Surprise chocolates in the Monty Python sketch (with a tensioned spring in the centre to stab you in the cheeks when you suck through to it).  You think, why the &*#@ did they need to put milk in *that*?

I feel a little uneasy because I feel ignorant on the whole subject.

So do we all.  You get used to it… —

email to "jc" at this site: email to "jack"  or "bogus" will bounce <—

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

Response:

On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, "Aileen Lennon" <aile…@indigo.ie

wrote: His symptoms were severe excema and breathing problems.

Not uncommon dairy problems.

Firstly move to soya-based products.  There are worries over genetically-modified soya in the US,

And other kinds of worries outside the US: Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, new research has forced the New Zealand government to issue a fresh health warning. Phyoestrogens in soy can adversely affect the hormonal development of infants and impair the function of the thyroid gland. Low thyroid function is associated with increased risk of heart disease, whereas serum cholesterol levels do not show any correlation risk for CHD.* * From Health Vectors column in the Journal of the Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation, Winter 1998, Volume 22, Number 4, Page 6. —- Newsgroup: sci.med.nutrition Subject: Re: soy, genistein and cancer From: Dave Woodhams <woodh…@iprolink.co.nz

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:56:13 GMT New Zealand is not alone, however: The Swiss Bureau of Public Health advised their paediatricians in 1997, [translated for anglophiles]: "As far as we [Swiss] are concerned, soybean products should not be used routinely to feed healthy babies but should be used only in the few cases where medically indicated (lactose intolerance, galactosaemia and, depending on circumstances, intolerance of or allergy to cow’s milk protein); and in no case for ecological, ideological or ethical reasons!  But even then products based on cow’s milk which are hydrolysed or lactose-free will be superior in quality to those based on soy!"   O. T

Question:

: After 11 years of headache (combination migraine and muscular tension), I : have found a doctor who theorized that it might be related to : hypothyroidism (low thyroid level). A simple blood test confirmed that I : was indeed hypothyroidic. He has since tried to cure the hypothryroidism : by prescribing thyroid hormones; no success yet, but still trying. : (Thyroid cures apparently take some time.) : None of the literature I have read has made this connection (between : thyroid level and headache). I am curious to know if anyone out there has : ever heard of this connection, or if they have been diagnosed as : hypothyroidic. : Thanks. Hope you have a headache-free day today. — I can’t really confirm or disprove this theory but I have some info of my own. I’m not sure what exactly affects the function of the thyroid, offhand, either. I have read about the link between serotonin levels and the problems of migraines. From what I read, the serotonin imbalance causes the hypothalmus (sp) to act incorrectly and that causes the migraine. That is what I read said and I can neither disprove it or prove it. There is a possibility that is the thyroid is affected by neuro- transmitter levels, that it, too, could be solved with neuro-transmitter type therapy. If this helps, great. If not, sorry. – Craig

Response:

After 11 years of headache (combination migraine and muscular tension), I have found a doctor who theorized that it might be related to hypothyroidism (low thyroid level). A simple blood test confirmed that I was indeed hypothyroidic. He has since tried to cure the hypothryroidism by prescribing thyroid hormones; no success yet, but still trying. (Thyroid cures apparently take some time.) None of the literature I have read has made this connection (between thyroid level and headache). I am curious to know if anyone out there has ever heard of this connection, or if they have been diagnosed as hypothyroidic. Thanks. Hope you have a headache-free day today.

Response:

My neuro wondered if a problem with my thyroid was involved in/causing my migraines. I had a blood test and will get the results this Friday. If any connection appears, I’ll let you know. -Shelly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After 11 years of headache (combination migraine and muscular tension), I have found a doctor who theorized that it might be related to hypothyroidism (low thyroid level). A simple blood test confirmed that I was indeed hypothyroidic. He has since tried to cure the hypothryroidism by prescribing thyroid hormones; no success yet, but still trying. (Thyroid cures apparently take some time.) None of the literature I have read has made this connection (between thyroid level and headache). I am curious to know if anyone out there has ever heard of this connection, or if they have been diagnosed as hypothyroidic. Thanks. Hope you have a headache-free day today.

Response:

It’s my understanding that thyroid imbalances are not necessarily cured but regulated with the medication. Both my daughters are on thyroid medication, and I am as well after surgery. We all three have migraines. The connection idea is interesting. Suzy

Response:

: After 11 years of headache (combination migraine and muscular tension), I : have found a doctor who theorized that it might be related to : hypothyroidism (low thyroid level). A simple blood test confirmed that I : was indeed hypothyroidic. He has since tried to cure the hypothryroidism : by prescribing thyroid hormones; no success yet, but still trying. : (Thyroid cures apparently take some time.) : None of the literature I have read has made this connection (between : thyroid level and headache). I am curious to know if anyone out there has : ever heard of this connection, or if they have been diagnosed as : hypothyroidic. : Thanks. Hope you have a headache-free day today. —

Hi. I can’t believe what I am reading….I don’t know whether to jump up and down or be all pissed off. I am a migraine-prone person….I can’t seem to find a trigger, but theorize that I am susceptible to migraines and at different times different things cause them. I had radiation therapy for cancer 12 years ago when I was 17. About two years ago, I started noticing that I was just plain exhausted all the time. I went to see my oncologist because I thought I had cancer again. He told me I just work too hard (I’m in grad school and have a job; I work 6-7 days a week 10-11 hours a day). I finally convinced him last December to check my thyroid because I read somewhere that people that have had head/neck radiation therapy often suffer from thyroid dysfunction. I had also noticed other symptoms of hypothyroidism (unexplainable weight gain, my hair was falling out, my skin was so dry it was driving me insane; my hands and feet were cracked from dryness). Anyway, he checked me out and lo and behold I was right. He told me to take care of it thru my primary care physician. My primary care physician put me on a low dose of synthroid in January. Unfortunately, I haven’t found the optimal dosage yet, and I’m seriously considering switching physicians because mine sucks, but one thing I have noticed is that I have gotten a TON OF MIGRAINES since my most recent increase in medication. I actually put up a question about this asking if anyone noticed a correlation between thyroid levels and migraines! If you find anything cool out, please let me know! Kelley

Response:

I have hypothyroidism and migraines. Am on Synthroid to regulate thyroid. It is stable now, but my headaches are about the same.  I use Imetrex injections 4 or 5 times a week.  Don’t know if there is any connection or not, but it is interesting that several others have both. Fiina

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : After 11 years of headache (combination migraine and muscular tension), I : have found a doctor who theorized that it might be related to : hypothyroidism (low thyroid level). A simple blood test confirmed that I : was indeed hypothyroidic. He has since tried to cure the hypothryroidism : by prescribing thyroid hormones; no success yet, but still trying. : (Thyroid cures apparently take some time.) : None of the literature I have read has made this connection (between : thyroid level and headache). I am curious to know if anyone out there has : ever heard of this connection, or if they have been diagnosed as : hypothyroidic. : Thanks. Hope you have a headache-free day today. — Hi. I can’t believe what I am reading….I don’t know whether to jump up and down or be all pissed off. I am a migraine-prone person….I can’t seem to find a trigger, but theorize that I am susceptible to migraines and at different times different things cause them. I had radiation therapy for cancer 12 years ago when I was 17. About two years ago, I started noticing that I was just plain exhausted all the time. I went to see my oncologist because I thought I had cancer again. He told me I just work too hard (I’m in grad school and have a job; I work 6-7 days a week 10-11 hours a day). I finally convinced him last December to check my thyroid because I read somewhere that people that have had head/neck radiation therapy often suffer from thyroid dysfunction. I had also noticed other symptoms of hypothyroidism (unexplainable weight gain, my hair was falling out, my skin was so dry it was driving me insane; my hands and feet were cracked from dryness). Anyway, he checked me out and lo and behold I was right. He told me to take care of it thru my primary care physician. My primary care physician put me on a low dose of synthroid in January. Unfortunately, I haven’t found the optimal dosage yet, and I’m seriously considering switching physicians because mine sucks, but one thing I have noticed is that I have gotten a TON OF MIGRAINES since my most recent increase in medication. I actually put up a question about this asking if anyone noticed a correlation between thyroid levels and migraines! If you find anything cool out, please let me know! Kelley

I was diagnosed as being slightly hyperthyroid.  Medication gave me headaches too.  Once i started taking magnesium sulfate, my T4 & TSH are in the normal range.  I doubt if there is a link between throid & migraine. Richard

Response:

After 11 years of headache (combination migraine and muscular tension), I have found a doctor who theorized that it might be related to hypothyroidism (low thyroid level). A simple blood test confirmed that I was indeed hypothyroidic. He has since tried to cure the hypothryroidism by prescribing thyroid hormones; no success yet, but still trying. (Thyroid cures apparently take some time.) None of the literature I have read has made this connection (between thyroid level and headache). I am curious to know if anyone out there has ever heard of this connection, or if they have been diagnosed as hypothyroidic. Thanks. Hope you have a headache-free day today.

Jayshep– In her book _Managing Your Migraine: A Migrain Sufferer’s Practical Guide_, Susan L. Burks, MEd, says about Thyroid Disorders: "Thyroid hormones are known to ineract with serotonin and noradrenalin, two of the brain chemicals implicated in migraine.  Patients with hyperthyroidism … show an increased sensitivity to tyramine, a recognized trigger of of dietary migraine.  … Patients who take thyroid supplements to correct an underactive thyroid should be sure to have blood hormone levels checked at least yearly, or sooner if migraine symptoms appear to be worsening." About Thyroid Medication — "Use of supplementary thyroid hormones (Synthroid is a popular synthetic product) can initiate or aggravate symptoms if blood levels of the hormone become too high.  This hormone has been shown to increase dietary amine sensitivity, alreay a frequent problem in migraine.  Levels should be checked at least yearly, or sooner if migraine status worsens, by means of a blood test called a "complete thyroid profile." Hope this helps. BOL (Best of Luck) jwg –  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  - & that’s the thruthpffffft//                     (V) 713-723-7322 – (Ans.Mach) 713-723-0810 –  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -  o  -

Response:

I have hypothyroidism and migraines. Am on Synthroid to regulate thyroid. It is stable now, but my headaches are about the same.  I use Imetrex injections 4 or 5 times a week.  Don’t know if there is any connection or not, but it is interesting that several others have both. Fiina

Just within the last few weeks, I have been running into not only thyroid problems but the usage of Synthroid.   All were also migraineurs, but it isn’t clear whether the thyroid and the migraine are connected. –

Response:

Question:

A lot of people eat too much salt.  I don’t like salt.  I’m wondering if it’s possible to get too little salt and if so, what problems would a person have.  I know that most people get more than they need in processed foods, etc.  Since I am now eating fewer and fewer processed foods, could I be getting too little salt?  I do not use salt in cooking at all, nor do I salt my food when I eat. Gayle

Response:

Hi Gayle,

: A lot of people eat too much salt.  I don’t like salt.  I’m wondering : if it’s possible to get too little salt and if so, what problems would : a person have. I don’t know what problems you would have when you’re getting low on salt, but your body can’t do without it. : I know that most people get more than they need in : processed foods, etc.  Since I am now eating fewer and fewer processed : foods, could I be getting too little salt?  I do not use salt in : cooking at all, nor do I salt my food when I eat. Same here. Things like bread, milk, meat, fish and vegetables all contain some salt. Since you only need 1 gram a day (you hardly loose salt, execpt by sweating) there is nothing to worry about if you eat most of these on a regular basis. —    //  Iljitsch van Beijnum – ‘The liquor is ok, but the meat is raw’

Response:

Excerpts from netnews.alt.support.diet: 6-Jan-95 SALT by Gayle A lot of people eat too much salt.  I don’t like salt.  I’m wondering if it’s possible to get too little salt and if so, what problems would a person have.  I know that most people get more than they need in processed foods, etc.  Since I am now eating fewer and fewer processed foods, could I be getting too little salt?  I do not use salt in cooking at all, nor do I salt my food when I eat.

Good question!! Sorry I don’t have an answer. I used to put salt on EVERYTHING! I quit using it (in my cold turkey fashion) about 10 years ago. I too am eating fewer and fewer processed foods and I certainly don’t even own a salt shaker. If blood pressure is the main correlation with salt then I’m not going to worry about not getting enough because my bp is perfect. Does salt have any benefits? Even if it does, I doubt I’d start using it again. I don’t like the taste of it anymore (except during pms munchie time – gotta have those potato(e) chips!). Anna

Response:

If you’re eating a standard omnivorous diet, you probably have nothing to worry about.  If you are making a deliberate effort to avoid foods that have high levels of salt in them, such as celery and meat, there’s a possibility (though it’s still awfully low) that you might have problems. Symptoms of too little salt include fatigue and dizzyness.  Unfortunately, fatigue and dizzyness are also symptoms of about 600 gazillion different things as well.

Don’t forget that the various electrolyte balance drinks that some people like to take after exercise (Lucozade and so on here; I think it’s called Gatorade in the USA, no?) contain salt and sugar in what the makers feel are sensible proportions to replace what is lost in heavy exercise. Just a thought, as many of us do exercise a great deal! — Annabel Smyth                    Why is it no one ever sent me yet                                  One perfect rose (Dorothy Parker)

Response:

A lot of people eat too much salt.  I don’t like salt.  I’m wondering if it’s possible to get too little salt and if so, what problems would a person have.  I know that most people get more than they need in processed foods, etc.  Since I am now eating fewer and fewer processed foods, could I be getting too little salt?  I do not use salt in cooking at all, nor do I salt my food when I eat.

I notice that you are a fellow Tallahassean.  One thing to remember is that living in Florida is slightly different from living elsewhere in the country.  Most places, it’s very difficult to get too little salt in the diet.  Here, during the summer Festival O’ Perspiration, it’s just barely possible. If you’re eating a standard omnivorous diet, you probably have nothing to worry about.  If you are making a deliberate effort to avoid foods that have high levels of salt in them, such as celery and meat, there’s a possibility (though it’s still awfully low) that you might have problems. Symptoms of too little salt include fatigue and dizzyness.  Unfortunately, fatigue and dizzyness are also symptoms of about 600 gazillion different things as well. Eric Pepke Supercomputer Computations Research Institute Florida State University

Response:

hmmm….  I’ve been eating low fat (ok, lower fat) and exercising mildly (mile walk 3 times a week, and 10 minutes of stretching every day.. big woo for a year now and I was expecting to slowwwwly lose fat weight. Nope. Nada. No way. Nuttin’.  And, as soon as I stopped watching my fat intake and stopped exercising (2 weeks worth of holiday splurging) I magically gained 8 lbs. Wonderful. The reason this is a follow-up post to salt is because ever since I was 15 I’ve been VERY allergic to shrimp and lobster (throat closes up, lips swell, tongue swells, face turns blue… quite interesting to watch) and I was told it was because of the amount of iodine in some shell fish. In fact, my doctor has it on my chart that I NEVER be given a certain test that involves an iodine dye injection (some MRI’s require that). Now I read here that iodine affects the function of the thyroid (which affects how my body stores and uses calories). If iodized salt is giving me problems I could just stop using it BUT I’ve seen pictures of people with goiters and, well, I don’t want one !  I don’t eat a lot of processed foods or use a lot of salt at the table (usually) because I don’t like swelling up like the stay-puf marshmallow man. Also, I have carpal tunnel syndrome (and tendonitis, and a bunch of other ‘repetitive strain injuries’ related stuff) and when I swell up, it just makes the pain worse. Well, now that I’ve talked it over with myself *grin* I don’t think I can blame 300 lbs of Sheila on an allergic reaction to iodine. It is an interesting concept, though. —   Sheila Patterson, CIT CR-Technical Support Group, Cornell University

Response:

Does anyone here know how to reduce SALT? I have a very deep addiction with salt, consuming 1000% of the DV of sodium.

I can’t speak from personal experience, but my sister wanted to reduce her salt intake to help her blood pressure. She just basically stopped adding salt to her cooking and stopped even buying it. She says it was hard for a while but now she doesn’t even miss it. You get all the salt you need in any prepared foods you consume, plus meat naturally has some salt in it anyway.

Response:

Does anyone here know how to reduce SALT? I have a very deep addiction with salt, consuming 1000% of the DV of sodium.

Response:

Do you put salt in cooking, or do you add it to your food afterwards. If the previous, then you might want to experiment with flavouring your food naturally. E.g. use more garlic, and spices such as pepper to get a stronger taste naturally so that less (or no) salt need be added. Or, if you’re putting it on your food, then you might look into alternative things to sprinke. E.g. here in the UK you can buy a spice mix especially for putting on chips, which has lower salt. I think it includes things such as powdered garlic (again). Hoping that this is something vaguely approximating help. Cheers, Ross-c

Response: