Question:

I apologize for bothering you when you have so much on your plate.  I have a statement, and a question. I have not yet received any package. That’s the statement. The question is more complicated.  For some time now I have been experiencing a pronounced increase in hot flashes.  They were severe when I reached menopause in 1991, but vanished during the five years that I took Premarin.  However the Provera that I had to take as well caused continuing problems.  During that 5 years I tried cyclical which caused breakthrough and withdrawal bleeding, continuous for over 18 months which caused almost continuous spotting, and continuous Premarin with 10 mg Provera for 14 days every 4 months which caused flooding and unbearable cramps. I even gave that two tries, then vowed never to take Provera again.  In Sept ‘96 I began using natural progesterone cream from the health food store, but with no bleeding I worried about the intrauterine build-up.  In August ‘97 my doctor agreed that if a hysteroscopy was normal she would let me try triestrogen, which I had read causes insignificant endometrial thickening. The hot flashes returned, but I gradually increased the dosage of Triest to 2.5 mg daily, at which point they were not frequent or severe enough to be a problem, although they never totally ceased.  Much of how I felt while I was hypothyroid and on just Synthroid is not in my memory, so there is about a year of my life missing.  Now I find the hot flashes interfere with my sleep, and are a noticeable nuisance during the day – I feel sweaty and grubby, and damn it I put in my time with all this, why won’t it just stop! I have tried twice to reduce from 240 mg natural thyroid to 180 mg daily, but both times after less than a week I began to feel ever so weary, although the hot flashes did become less frequent. I know feeling hot can be a sign of becoming hyper, but I haven’t been cold since menopause hit!  And this is not constant, just typical hot flashes.  I have no other hyper symptoms, no heart palpitations, no hand tremors.  Do you think there is any possibility that the medication compounded by Aaronson’s Pharmacy could be less potent or of inferior quality to that from Kripp’s that I formerly used?  Do you have any other advice? Thanks. Dawn Bryden

Response:

I wish I knew how to cancel posts that went where they didn’t belong. Dawn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I apologize for bothering you when you have so much on your plate.  I have a statement, and a question. I have not yet received any package. That’s the statement. The question is more complicated.  For some time now I have been experiencing a pronounced increase in hot flashes.  They were severe when I reached menopause in 1991, but vanished during the five years that I took Premarin.  However the Provera that I had to take as well caused continuing problems.  During that 5 years I tried cyclical which caused breakthrough and withdrawal bleeding, continuous for over 18 months which caused almost continuous spotting, and continuous Premarin with 10 mg Provera for 14 days every 4 months which caused flooding and unbearable cramps. I even gave that two tries, then vowed never to take Provera again.  In Sept ‘96 I began using natural progesterone cream from the health food store, but with no bleeding I worried about the intrauterine build-up.  In August ‘97 my doctor agreed that if a hysteroscopy was normal she would let me try triestrogen, which I had read causes insignificant endometrial thickening. The hot flashes returned, but I gradually increased the dosage of Triest to 2.5 mg daily, at which point they were not frequent or severe enough to be a problem, although they never totally ceased.  Much of how I felt while I was hypothyroid and on just Synthroid is not in my memory, so there is about a year of my life missing.  Now I find the hot flashes interfere with my sleep, and are a noticeable nuisance during the day – I feel sweaty and grubby, and damn it I put in my time with all this, why won’t it just stop! I have tried twice to reduce from 240 mg natural thyroid to 180 mg daily, but both times after less than a week I began to feel ever so weary, although the hot flashes did become less frequent. I know feeling hot can be a sign of becoming hyper, but I haven’t been cold since menopause hit!  And this is not constant, just typical hot flashes. I have no other hyper symptoms, no heart palpitations, no hand tremors.  Do you think there is any possibility that the medication compounded by Aaronson’s Pharmacy could be less potent or of inferior quality to that from Kripp’s that I formerly used?  Do you have any other advice? Thanks. Dawn Bryden

Response:

Black Sheep wrote I wish I knew how to cancel posts that went where they didn’t belong….

Er… I’m not a doctor. I don’t even play one on T.V. I will, however, fill prescriptions without a prescription– after midnight. Knock twice and say "Raoul sent me." Best of luck in your quest, Dawn.

Response:

|I wish I knew how to cancel posts that went where they didn’t belong. I think you can go to Google and cancel them there, Dawn. I’ve never done it, but I’ve seen others do it. Ally

Response:

If you’re using OE Dawn you can do it by clicking on Message/Cancel message. If you’re quick enough it won’t get on the board but sometimes it shows to a few people. Can you tell I’ve also had the same experience lol. Bet Joy doesn’t feel so bad now heehee hugs padders (

Question:

If you send this to the alt.support.thyroid group, they will argue with

you on

this.  I am on the verge of trying this out, having Hashimoto’s

thyroiditis. NO!  DONT!  With Hashimoto’s my mother MUST USE Synthroid.  Natural Hormone will cause a goiter because of the antibodies that get generated when it circulates..

Much of what you posted is not so cut and dried for someone with thyroid imbalances and going to close-minded doctors.  Patients have taken a lot

into

their own hands and therefore, many of them feel better because of the

natural

dessicated thyroid. There is a lot of controversy right now in regard to treatment for hypothyroidism.  I found many things in your post that were unacceptable,

even

though they may come from a reputable source, even a reputable web site.

I am sorry I thought that this was a pretty mainstream article and thus safe to post.  I tells her what the establishment will do.  And actually, after some of my mothers comments the establishd medical  ranges of TSH, T3, and T4 are NOT really good diagnostic tools.  Hers are in the normal range. Allbeit low normal.  The doctors seem to have an attitude if you are in the range then you are OK. This is not good and quite possibly the root of the controversies you mention.

The only reason I am beginning to feel better is that I talked back to my doctor, changed doctors several times, and insisted on showing them

evidence

that goes contrary to their "accepted" treatment. So when you say dessicated thyroid should no longer be used, be very sure

you

have the evidence, because there is absolutely none.  Thousands of people

are

taking Armour Thyroid right now (Forest Pharmaceuticals) and beginning to

feel

a lot better.  It’s not for everyone with thyroid disease, but there are

very

few side-effects.

Please do not assign this to me personally.  It is the reccomandation from the American Diabetic Association.  Personally I think it is confirmation that the drug companies want our money to go to them.  Non – medical types are not qualified to treat themselves.  I think the establishment thinks this is really dangerous for use to diagnose and treat ourselves by how we feel.

Dessicated thyroid is what had been in use since the 1930s, successfully,

until

the synthetic form was made, and pharmaceutical companies and guideline

boards

went to bed together and decided that synthetic was better.  And the

synthetic,

to this day has never had large major clinical trials.

 Well – considering my mom has been on it for 39 years and is still alive in spite of the doctors.  Yes this is anecdotal.  But it has been prescribed to a LOT of people for a long time. I believe it must be safe.   It was safe enough for her to choose her own dosage for 25 years while we moved from military base to base and she knew more about it than the local doctors. She would mention Hashimoto’s and they would say ‘Quasimodo?’

I am not a medical professional, so I can’t explain things or even argue

things

so well, but … I know what I’m talking about because I’ve been there.

I am not medical either.  While I am suspicious of the reasons for not recomending cheap hormone.  I do know that it is very bad for someone with Hasimoto’s.

So when you post this stuff, please reread or at least present a site that

has

very differing views.  Or be aware of the major controversies surrounding

a

treatment.  If you don’t, you give wrong information, even though it might

be

from a very reputable source.

Sorry I have not reasearch alternatives on this topic only mainstream stuff. http://www.aarda.org/women.html http://www.usdoctor.com/thyroid.htm Sorry that you think the post was incomplete.  But you know I thought it was OK for this group.  I could have been really mean to her and said why dont you go to alt.thyroid and ask the question?  There is a lot of repetitious and partial info out there and this article struck me as having a lot of info in a small space. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Deva

Response:

Has anyone here had their thyroid removed? I was told that I have to have mine removed because I have a large nodule on my left lobe and multiple ones on my right.I would like to know what to expect.Thank you Jeanne

Response:

Hi Jeanne, My thyroid was removed about ten years ago, due to cancer.  It took two operations, a week apart.  First, they removed the side where the lump was.  After analysis showed two different types of malignant cells, they decided it would be safest to remove the other side as well.  I agreed, and had to come back into hospital for the second operation.   Post-op, I had throat spasms and a very stiff neck, and I looked life frankenstein’s monster, with a slit right across my throat, closed with staples.  (Many jokes from me, much to the horror of staff and visitors).  It all healed with no real problems, but it did take a few weeks to get some strength back.  I think that’s so after any operation, really.   I’ve been on synthetic thyroid hormones ever since.  There have been a few hitches in getting the correct dosage, because other things can affect the body’s need for thyroxine, and it interacts with estrogen. However, I’ve been stable for a long time now, and have been completely cleared of cancer.   If they don’t take the whole gland, you can still produce thyroxine, so you may not need medication.  That would be ideal.  Doesn’t sound like you will have that outcome, though.  They may do some radiotherapy afterwards.  I was supposed to have that, but didn’t get it because I live too far from the nearest treatment centre, and my need for it was considered marginal.  I can’t tell you what that’s like, because I’ve never even seen it.  But thyroid cancer can produce secondaries in the bones, so if they think you need it, it’s worth doing, I think.  I’ve been fine without it, though.   The thing that troubles me most about it all these years later is the lack of a thyroid cartilage.  It sits in front of the larynx and protects that and the windpipe.  Without it, it’s very easy to hurt these structures, and when I do, it causes very bad throat spasms.  I’ve learned to sleep with a stiff pillow held in front of my chest, so that my arm can’t fall across my throat and cause trouble. I’ve also learned to be a bit careful about how I position my head (chin down as much as possible) so as to minimise the problem.   Nothing is impossible.  It’s just a small matter of adjustment.   Good luck with your operation.   Carmel Jeanne wrote:

Has anyone here had their thyroid removed? I was told that I have to have mine removed because I have a large nodule on my left lobe and multiple ones on my right.I would like to know what to expect.Thank you Jeanne

— "Don’t wait for a light to appear at the end of the tunnel.   Stride down there and light the bloody thing yourself!" Web sites at http://www.jaragun.com/ http://www.geocities.com/peripata/

Response:

My mothers thyroid was 90% removed 40 years ago (1963).  I would ask what the nodules are. You will have to take thyroid replacement hormone the rest of your life. (Really irritating that they will only give you 30 day supplies). If it is Hashimoto’s thryoiditis (autoimmune) then growth of the nodules can be stopped with synthroid at a level that suppresses natural hormone.  If it is not hashimoto’s then they will probably give you a natural thyroid supplement.  The best way to tell is the T3 T4 ratio and if T4 is ‘low normal’ around 2.5. "Jeanne" <jfhic…@cox.net

wrote in message

news:VIm88.1987$n27.220147@news1.east.cox.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Has anyone here had their thyroid removed? I was told that I have to have mine removed because I have a large nodule on my left lobe and multiple

ones

on my right.I would like to know what to expect.Thank you Jeanne

Response:

OK – after checking out this article my best guess is she has Graves disease.  Remember when Pres Bush Senior, his wife, and their dog all got it? Thyroid disease is common in the general population, and the prevalence increases with age. The assessment of thyroid function by modern assays is both reliable and inexpensive. Screening for thyroid dysfunction is indicated in certain high-risk groups, such as neonates and the elderly. Hypothyroidism is by far the most common thyroid disorder in the adult population and is more common in older women. It is usually autoimmune in origin, presenting as either primary atrophic hypothyroidism or Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. Thyroid failure secondary to radioactive iodine therapy or thyroid surgery is also common. Rarely, pituitary or hypothalamic disorders can result in secondary hypothyroidism. Approximately 4 million people in the United States are hypothyroid and receive thyroxine replacement therapy. By contrast, hyperthyroidism is much less common, with a female-to-male ratio of 9:1. Graves’ disease is the most common cause and affects primarily young adults. Toxic multi-nodular goiters tend to affect the older age-groups. Diabetic patients have a higher prevalence of thyroid disorders compared with the normal population (Table 1). Because patients with one organ-specific autoimmune disease are at risk of developing other autoimmune disorders, and thyroid disorders are more common in females, it is not surprising that up to 30% of female type 1 diabetic patients have thyroid disease. The rate of postpartum thyroiditis in diabetic patients is three times that in normal women. A number of reports have also indicated a higher than normal prevalence of thyroid disorders in type 2 diabetic patients, with hypothyroidism being the most common disorder. Table 1. Prevalence Rates for Thyroid Disease Thyroid disease in the general population: 6.6% Thyroid disease in diabetes: Overall prevalence:           10.8-13.4% Hypothyroidism:                     3-6% Subclinical hypothyroidism:        5-13% Hyperthyroidism:                    1-2% Postpartum thyroiditis:              11% How Thyroid Dysfunction May Affect Diabetic Patients The presence of thyroid dysfunction may affect diabetes control. Hyperthyroidism is typically associated with worsening glycemic control and increased insulin requirements. There is underlying increased hepatic gluconeogenesis, rapid gastrointestinal glucose absorption, and probably increased insulin resistance. Indeed, thyrotoxicosis may unmask latent diabetes. In practice, there are several implications for patients with both diabetes and hyperthyroidism. First, in hyperthyroid patients, the diagnosis of glucose intolerance needs to be considered cautiously, since the hyperglycemia may improve with treatment of thyrotoxicosis. Second, underlying hyperthyroidism should be considered in diabetic patients with unexplained worsening hyperglycemia. Third, in diabetic patients with hyperthyroidism, physicians need to anticipate possible deterioration in glycemic control and adjust treatment accordingly. Restoration of euthyroidism will lower blood glucose level. Continued from page 1 Although wide-ranging changes in carbohydrate metabolism are seen in hypothyroidism, clinical manifestation of these abnormalities is seldom conspicuous. However, the reduced rate of insulin degradation may lower the exogenous insulin requirement. The presence of hypoglycemia is uncommon in isolated thyroid hormone deficiency and should raise the possibility of hypopituitarism in a hypothyroid patient. More importantly, hypothyroidism is accompanied by a variety of abnormalities in plasma lipid metabolism, including elevated triglyceride and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol concentrations. Even subclinical hypothyroidism can exacerbate the coexisting dyslipidemia commonly found in type 2 diabetes and further increase the risk of cardiovascular diseases. Adequate thyroxine replacement will reverse the lipid abnormalities. In young women with type 1 diabetes, there is a high incidence of autoimmune thyroid disorders. Transient thyroid dysfunction is common in the postpartum period and warrants routine screening with serum thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) 6-8 weeks after delivery. Glucose control may fluctuate during the transient hyperthyroidism followed by hypothyroidism typical of the postpartum thyroiditis. It is important to monitor thyroid function tests in these women since approximately 30% will not recover from the hypothyroid phase and will require thyroxine replacement. Recurrent thyroiditis with subsequent pregnancies is common. Diagnosis of Thyroid Dysfunction The diagnosis of thyroid dysfunction in diabetic patients based solely on clinical manifestations can be difficult. Poor glycemic control can produce features similar to hyperthyroidism, such as weight loss despite increased appetite and fatigue. On the other hand, severe diabetic nephropathy can be mistaken for hypothyroidism because patients with this condition may have edema, fatigue, pallor, and weight gain. To further complicate the diagnostic process, poorly controlled diabetes, with or without its complications, may produce changes in thyroid function tests that occur in nonthyroidal illnesses. Typical changes include a low serum T3 due to impaired extrathyroidal T4-to-T3 conversion, a low serum T4 due to decreased protein binding, and an inappropriately low serum TSH concentration. The availability of the highly sensitive immunoassay for serum TSH (with detection limit of [is less than] 0.1 mU/l) provides a major advance in the diagnosis of thyroid disorders. It is the most reliable and sensitive screening test for thyroid dysfunction and allows both hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism to be diagnosed with certainty. In addition, subclinical thyroid dysfunction can only be diagnosed by an abnormal TSH because the serum T3 and T4 are normal and, by definition, the patients are usually asymptomatic. However, the underlying thyroid dysfunction can produce clinically important physiological effects. Subclinical hypothyroidism can elevate serum LDL cholesterol and worsen pre-existing dyslipidemia, further increasing the risk of atherosclerosis. Subclinical hyperthyroidism may increase the risk of cardiac arrhythmias and exacerbate angina. Since diabetic patients are at high risk for cardiovascular diseases, the diagnosis and treatment of subclinical thyroid diseases is important. Continued from page 2 The presence of anti-thyroid peroxidase (TPO) antibodies is helpful in predicting the development of autoimmune thyroid disorders, especially hypothyroidism. Patients who have anti-TPO antibodies should be screened for thyroid dysfunction on a regular basis, so early detection and treatment is possible. Management of Thyroid Dysfunction Frank hypothyroidism should be treated with thyroid hormone therapy. L-thyroxine is the most widely used thyroid hormone replacement. Natural thyroid extracts such as desiccated thyroid should no longer be used. The usual full replacement dose is 1.6 [micro]g L-thyroxine per kg of body weight. Often, patients with mild thyroid failure require less than a full replacement dose initially. The dose can be adjusted by measuring TSH every 2-3 months. Once the TSH is normalized and the patient is established on a stable dose of L-thyroxine, TSH monitoring can be done annually. With progression to complete thyroid failure, there is usually a need to increase the thyroxine dose with time. In diabetic patients with underlying coronary artery disease, L-thyroxine therapy may exacerbate angina by increasing myocardial contractility and heart rate. Therefore, it is best to start with a low dose, such as 25 [micro]g daily, and increase slowly by monthly increments of 25 [micro]g while monitoring the patient’s clinical status and serum TSH levels. Treatment of subclinical hypothyroidism should be considered if 1) patients have elevated serum LDL cholesterol that is worsened by the hypothyroidism, or 2) they have detectable serum anti-TPO antibodies, because the progression to frank hypothyroidism is high in this group, or they are symptomatic. Because hyperthyroidism can cause serious adverse effects on glycemic control and possibly worsen pre-existing coronary artery disease, it is desirable to consider definitive treatment with radioactive iodine therapy whenever possible. There is no contraindication to the use of antithyroid medications in diabetic patients, but the long-term remission rate of Graves’ disease is [is less than] 40%. Patients with toxic multi-nodular goiters or an autonomously functioning thyroid nodule should be definitively treated by radioactive iodine or surgery. Conclusion Thyroid dysfunction is common in diabetic patients and can produce significant metabolic disturbances. Therefore, regular screening for thyroid abnormalities in all diabetic patients will allow early treatment of subclinical thyroid dysfunction. A sensitive serum TSH assay is the screening test of choice. In type 1 diabetic patients, it is helpful to determine whether anti-TPO antibodies are present. If these are present, then annual TSH screening is warranted. Otherwise, a TSH assay should be done every 2-3 years. In type 2 diabetic patients, a TSH assay should be done at diagnosis and then repeated at least every 5 years. Patricia Wu, MD, FACE, FRCP, is an endocrinologist with the Southern California Permanente Medical Group and an assistant clinical professor of medicine at the University of California, San Diego. COPYRIGHT 2000 American Diabetes Association COPYRIGHT 2001 Gale Group

Response:

If my comment on triggering circulating antibody to cause a goiter did not convince you then try this link about why you dont want to use Armour. http://www.focusonthyroid.com/script/main/forum.asp?articlekey=774&rd=1

Response:

Actually, since your mother is taking thyroid medication, you might recommend the newsgroup to her. you were right in many of the things you had to say, but there are many people taking armour thryoid who have hashimoto’s.   what to say?  if your mother is feeling fine on the synthroid, then no problem.  it’s when patients don’t feel the medication to be working that they run into a lot of problems.  For a goiter, I don’t know what the story is.  Synthroid is only T4 and for a lot of people with hypothyroidism, that has not been good enough.   If Armour was bad for Hashimoto’s, the drug company would have definitely said so.  They’ve had over 40 years’ experience by now. Thank you for all your feedback.  It was spirited and appreciated. Deva

Response:

Well good luck in your quest for good health.   I understand your feeling of urgency and dissatisfaction.  I agree with many suspicions and try to be cautious about anecdotal stories about what works for some people.  I often research the item and waffle until I am comfotable I understand the risk. I think these people must have some other thyroid dysfunction and not Hashimoto’s if they can take natural hormone and not experience eventual if not worsening of symptoms. But my personal research focus is MS and anything that peripherally may be significant. My family has donated our blood to the Multiple Autoimmune Disease study at the University of minesota and I am excited about the results already coming out of the data analysis. I think many MSers speculate that we may also be dealing with more than one disease as opposed to one that just gets worse and worse.  The huge anount of information can be overwhelming sometimes.  I have found that neurology is very intertwined with immunology and endocrinology.  Some of the different disciplines get very full of themselves. "DeliciousLaugh" <deliciousla…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20020211015436.18943.00000685@mb-mk.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Actually, since your mother is taking thyroid medication, you might

recommend

the newsgroup to her. you were right in many of the things you had to say, but there are many

people

taking armour thryoid who have hashimoto’s. what to say?  if your mother is feeling fine on the synthroid, then no

problem.

 it’s when patients don’t feel the medication to be working that they run

into

a lot of problems.  For a goiter, I don’t know what the story is.

Synthroid is

only T4 and for a lot of people with hypothyroidism, that has not been

good

enough. If Armour was bad for Hashimoto’s, the drug company would have definitely

said

so.  They’ve had over 40 years’ experience by now. Thank you for all your feedback.  It was spirited and appreciated. Deva

Response:

My mother had her thyroid removed in the mid 1950s, and she did not have to take any replacement meds for the rest of her life.  She had a few bad years prior to diagnosis and was healthy and happy afterwards.  She also healed very rapidly, much to the surprise of her doctors at the time. Gaylan "Celeste" <celeste…@qwest.net

wrote in message

news:YD098.136$fI5.314491@news.uswest.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

My mothers thyroid was 90% removed 40 years ago (1963).  I would ask what the nodules are. You will have to take thyroid replacement hormone the rest of your life. (Really irritating that they will only give you 30 day supplies). If it is Hashimoto’s thryoiditis (autoimmune) then growth of the nodules

can

be stopped with synthroid at a level that suppresses natural hormone.  If

it > is not hashimoto’s then they will probably give you a natural thyroid > supplement.  The best way to tell is the T3 T4 ratio and if T4 is ‘low > normal’ around 2.5. > "Jeanne" <jfhic…@cox.net

wrote in message

> news:VIm88.1987$n27.220147@news1.east.cox.net… > > Has anyone here had their thyroid removed? I was told that I have to have

mine removed because I have a large nodule on my left lobe and multiple ones on my right.I would like to know what to expect.Thank you Jeanne

Response:

Natural thyroid extracts such as desiccated thyroid should no longer be used. If you send this to the alt.support.thyroid group, they will argue with you on this.  I am on the verge of trying this out, having Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. Much of what you posted is not so cut and dried for someone with thyroid imbalances and going to close-minded doctors.  Patients have taken a lot into their own hands and therefore, many of them feel better because of the natural dessicated thyroid. To every disease treatment, one can find not only newsgroups dedicated to them, but also disagreements in treatment.  This is one disease – I’m talking about hypothyroidism – both Graves and Hashimoto’s – that too many people have felt horrendous for many years, and their doctors only recognize test results, not symptoms – and they continue to suffer. There is a lot of controversy right now in regard to treatment for hypothyroidism.  I found many things in your post that were unacceptable, even though they may come from a reputable source, even a reputable web site. The only reason I am beginning to feel better is that I talked back to my doctor, changed doctors several times, and insisted on showing them evidence that goes contrary to their "accepted" treatment. So when you say dessicated thyroid should no longer be used, be very sure you have the evidence, because there is absolutely none.  Thousands of people are taking Armour Thyroid right now (Forest Pharmaceuticals) and beginning to feel a lot better.  It’s not for everyone with thyroid disease, but there are very few side-effects. Dessicated thyroid is what had been in use since the 1930s, successfully, until the synthetic form was made, and pharmaceutical companies and guideline boards went to bed together and decided that synthetic was better.  And the synthetic, to this day has never had large major clinical trials.   I am not a medical professional, so I can’t explain things or even argue things so well, but … I know what I’m talking about because I’ve been there. So when you post this stuff, please reread or at least present a site that has very differing views.  Or be aware of the major controversies surrounding a treatment.  If you don’t, you give wrong information, even though it might be from a very reputable source. Deva

Response:

Question:

I’ve been taking Paxil on and off for about 2 years now. Over the course that Ive been taking the drug I’ve noticed that some changes have occurred which have begun to concern me. Specifically two main changes of concern are an introduction of slight aggressiveness and a gradual onset of short term memory loss and general "foggy" thinking. An example of this "foggyness" can be seen while reading a book or watching television and not being able to follow the story line due to either lack of lack of concentration and just not being able to get your thoughts in order. An example of the short term memory loss can be found in an example such as forgetting a persons name that you have just been introduced to (which is not normal for me), quickly forgetting information which you have just studied, or forgetting the way out of a new suburb which you have just entered. The onset of these two changes (especially that concerning the memory loss and thinking problems) are greatly concerning me. I would really like to hear of anyone who has also experienced these issues whilst on Paxil or any other SSRI. I would really appreciate hearing if you have experienced these issues before, and how long it took before you "got your mind back" if so at all! After you stopped taking these drugs. Please email me for I do not frequent the news groups often. Thank you in advanced, — Jay (take out the "NOSPAM")

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been taking Paxil on and off for about 2 years now. Over the course that Ive been taking the drug I’ve noticed that some changes have occurred which have begun to concern me. Specifically two main changes of concern are an introduction of slight aggressiveness and a gradual onset of short term memory loss and general "foggy" thinking. An example of this "foggyness" can be seen while reading a book or watching television and not being able to follow the story line due to either lack of lack of concentration and just not being able to get your thoughts in order. An example of the short term memory loss can be found in an example such as forgetting a persons name that you have just been introduced to (which is not normal for me), quickly forgetting information which you have just studied, or forgetting the way out of a new suburb which you have just entered. The onset of these two changes (especially that concerning the memory loss and thinking problems) are greatly concerning me. I would really like to hear of anyone who has also experienced these issues whilst on Paxil or any other SSRI. I would really appreciate hearing if you have experienced these issues before, and how long it took before you "got your mind back" if so at all! After you stopped taking these drugs. Please email me for I do not frequent the news groups often. Thank you in advanced, — Jay

I have almost all of the symptoms you describe and it was caused by a hypoxiic Brain injury, due to oxygen not getting into the cells for a period. Sadly if Brain cells die they don’t come back. Y.M.M.V. — Mark Brown

Response:

Hi Cinderella, I just got back from my psychologist.  We discussed a change in my medicine starting last spring.  I was changed from 100 *grms of Cytomel to 75. I immediately noticed a loss of vitality and mental clarity.  Since end of summer I have been needing 10 hours of sleep, and getting fuzzy, and just lately I realized my hair growth dropped dramatically.  My progress against depression slowed, halted.  Perhaps you need Thyroid.  Be sure your Free T4 is also checked. Through therapy I have over come depression as a mood disorder, but the deeper part of depression is this lack of mental energy and acuity.  I don’t know to what degree I’ll have to learn to live with this. And yes, the clearer you are, the more it bothers you that don’t have as much energy as is your fair share.  So this can even be seen as an improvement.  Keep in mind, depression, like pneumonia, is a serious illness. And like pneumonia, you can get real bad, bit by bit, hardly noticing until you land in the hospital.  Only when you stop getting worse do you notice how bad it is.  Your first steps are so small — noticing a book,  thinking about reading it, trying to read it, reading it, and finally comprehending what you read, over a period of days.  Then you come to the point where you want to get up, and just standing 3 minutes exhausts you.  It takes a lot of steps, and causes a lot of frustration. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suffer brain fog, and its getting very very annoying.   I didnt mind it so much while depressed.  I didnt care to do much of anything,  wasnt interested in anything  etc..  But, I am no longer very depressed.  I am in better spirits than I been in a long, long  time.  All is improving except this brain fog.   I been researching it.. come to find out its comorbid with hypothtyroidism I also suffer.  So now I am looking at the remedies and it gets real annoying then, becuase the brain fog..interferes with my learning what to do about it. So now I am very annoyed with it… finally interested in knowing things again..and its interfering with my doing that.  . I have to work so hard to get anything out of all I am reading..so hard it hurts…my forehead..Not a headache..but it just hurts..like staining. This got me to thinking   maybe its fogged there cause of a sinus infection or worse..  emphysema.. Are such also the kind of things might cause this brain fog.. like you found after oxygen supply was cut off to you?

Response:

I just got back from my psychologist.  We discussed a change in my medicine starting last spring.  I was changed from 100 *grms of Cytomel to 75. Why are you discussing changes in medicine with your psychologist?

Because a psychiatrist lacks the training to help analyze the behavioral effects that drugs have upon a person.  Given the lack of objective standards, one would, rationally, chose an expert in human emotional states rather then a highly trained technician. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eric Thoughts on quackery. "Never forget one of health care’s most important rules: it’s never wrong to ask questions. Anyone who makes you think otherwise may well be a quack." http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression

Response:

Hi Aschenputtel, I’ve been hanging out at asdr instead of asdm.  It’s a kinder world.  And I’m more comfortable with philosophies of recovery than medical facts (which are different "facts" for different people). Nope, haven’t been doing better.  I think it was from a change in my medication.  I took it upon myself to go back from 75?gr to 100 ?gr of thyroid medication.  My useable time of mental energy has triple in the last few days since I made the change. More later.  I just wanted to be sure to answer you. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Cinderella, I just got back from my psychologist.  We discussed a change in my medicine starting last spring.  I was changed from 100 *grms of Cytomel to 75. I immediately noticed a loss of vitality and mental clarity.  Since end of summer I have been needing 10 hours of sleep, and getting fuzzy, and just lately I realized my hair growth dropped dramatically.  My progress against depression slowed, halted.  Perhaps you need Thyroid.  Be sure your Free T4 is also checked. Through therapy I have over come depression as a mood disorder, but the deeper part of depression is this lack of mental energy and acuity.  I don’t know to what degree I’ll have to learn to live with this. And yes, the clearer you are, the more it bothers you that don’t have as much energy as is your fair share.  So this can even be seen as an improvement.  Keep in mind, depression, like pneumonia, is a serious illness. And like pneumonia, you can get real bad, bit by bit, hardly noticing until you land in the hospital.  Only when you stop getting worse do you notice how bad it is.  Your first steps are so small — noticing a book, thinking about reading it, trying to read it, reading it, and finally comprehending what you read, over a period of days.  Then you come to the point where you want to get up, and just standing 3 minutes exhausts you.  It takes a lot of steps, and causes a lot of frustration. Christina Welcome back, Christina.. I noticed you hadn’t posted in some time. .I have wondered how you were, hoping you stopped posting because you gotten all better..and too busy to post. .  I am sorry  you had a little step backwards..but glad you are recovered from it now, and back now, ok again . I read your post earlier, along with ones by  Eric and  Cem Tural. and reflected on what each of you had posted today. As I considered your, their and my posts  an image of a Cross came to mind. .. The right side of the horizontal bar representing  the emotions,  the left side of the horizontal representing the mind/brain,  then the top of the vertical representing the soul or spirit…and the bottom of the vertical representing  the stomach or food or what we metabolze…and that when all are considered discretely like that… apart from one another…I wind up up on that cross, crucified  by living as if their all discrete, separate… as opposed to living in a manner where those 4 things are integrated in harmony  with one another. sigh…and boy once you let it go that far…so you crucified yourself  it so complicated  to reintergrate  such all works in harmony again. Everything you do in any one of the areas  seems to have some impact on the other areas, and not necessarily so you necessirarly always moving in the same direction…  sometimes doing something bout one aspect,  causes a setback in pulling the other away grom integration and harmony .. Not  all linear progression is what I am thinking.. Improvements  slow and gradual, like you,  then offsets,  or efforts in one area cancelling out work done in another…sometimes..  very uneven progross out of such a multifaceted disorder. When my spirits lifted..so I am now left  mostly dealing with chronic fatigue and brain fog..I thought it was from  my Hashimotos…so researched found some vitamins and minerals recommended.  And, having some improvement day by day on the fatigue, too. ..  But, it seems to me  the Brain Fog is worse now than its ever been.  Now maybe thats because i was depressed and wasnt interested in utilizing my brain the way I am now I am most interested in things again…so it only seems like the fog has thickened.  But..I dont think so..I think its thicker at times right now than it ever been..  So then I ws thinking what I posted above…maybe its unrelated to depression or my thyroid… maybe its oxygen deprivation from sinus problems or emphysema Now you post your experience and its incited more thought…like..perhaps…it is worse because of the thyroid…  Maybe, the depression lifting..is creating more action in other brain parts…and my taking all the vitmins is creating more actions physiologically..and thats creating less fatigue and more physical exertions…and mental too…even if I am straining myself mentally to push through the brain fog   I pushing more work through… and now the amount of  thyrodi hormone I was OK on per the tests..while severely depressed,  is NOT enough now.i doing mor and more….so I more hypothyroid  than when depressed   hence the brain fog thickening.LOL PERHAPS, My normal 6 mos..checkup for my hashimotos is in 4 weeks…but being I find this very annoying… to have so much more interest  and feeling blocked from fully pursuing…I think I am  impatient to wait 4 weeks to know whether its my thyroid…I guess if things have been changing… you should go in early..and breaking through of chronic depression after all this time..is maybe a Major change..  that is the  probable problem here  I think I will call tomorrow to be seen on that EARLY… Thank You..  .. … I suffer brain fog, and its getting very very annoying.   I didnt mind it so much while depressed.  I didnt care to do much of anything,  wasnt interested in anything  etc..  But, I am no longer very depressed.  I am in better spirits than I been in a long, long  time.  All is improving except this brain fog.   I been researching it.. come to find out its comorbid with hypothtyroidism I also suffer.  So now I am looking at the remedies and it gets real annoying then, becuase the brain fog..interferes with my learning what to do about it. So now I am very annoyed with it… finally interested in knowing things again..and its interfering with my doing that.  . I have to work so hard to get anything out of all I am reading..so hard it hurts…my forehead..Not a headache..but it just hurts..like staining. This got me to thinking   maybe its fogged there cause of a sinus infection or worse..  emphysema.. Are such also the kind of things might cause this brain fog.. like you found after oxygen supply was cut off to you?

Response:

Hi Aschenputtel, For me, depression is a mental energy thing.  It gets to me when I use up my energy.  Even when I don’t read nasty posters, the aggressive energy tires me.  You should pop in here at asdr more often, especially if your own anger is easing.  It’ll help keep it that way. That’s quotable Ashen, ".. it  the pits when you can’t think straight, even when you are used to it. " B6 in particular helps me.  And be sure your hormones are co-operating too. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Aschenputtel, I’ve been hanging out at asdr instead of asdm.  It’s a kinder world. I seem to be somewhat less angry Refusing to have anything to do with anyone who is unkind has helps me remain  less angry I killfiled all here on ASD-med who always and only say unkind things to people ..anyone new posts unkindly. I regularly read posts to a half dozen other NG  but I cant bring myself to post in any.. Maybe one day…when i am sure I wont bring any baggage from the bad experience on this NG.. I can bring myself to post one of the NG my readings show are so much kinder. Glad you found yourself a NG with a climate more supportive…:) . And I’m more comfortable with philosophies of recovery than medical facts (which are different "facts" for different people). Nope, haven’t been doing better.  I think it was from a change in my medication.  I took it upon myself to go back from 75?gr to 100 ?gr of thyroid medication.  My useable time of mental energy has triple in the last few days since I made the change. That’s encouraging.. it  the pits.when you can’t think straight, even when you are used to it. .  I had some success with vitmin therapy with the depression, especially when I added Vitmin B-100.  Its Dec 14, a time I normally be vegetatively depressed..and I AM NOT!   Hoping  a change in treatment for my Hashimotos will help remedy remaining problems of chronic fatigue and brain fog… More later.  I just wanted to be sure to answer you. Thanks..

Response:

I would just like to thank everyone who replied to the post. Your comments have been very usefull on giving me insight which I would have been sure to overlook if it wasnt for the aid of others. Thankyou once again, and we are all very lucky to have such a tight community that are always willing to help others in their times of need and distress –Jay

Response:

Aschen, What’s Hashimotos? Christina

I have Hashimotos…depression with that makes it seem  like a black out or brown out has occurred…  However I do share the problem of what mental energy remains being poorly utilized

…… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – calming down so has sure helped, but the brain fog continues to make thinking more of a challenge than it should be…but as you said,  I shouldnt expect more than gradual improvements. B6 in particular helps me.  And be sure your hormones are co-operating too. Will do. Thanks, for this support and I let you know how it turns out about any change in treatment for the hashimots…  soon, I hope.

Response:

Thanks for the answer. I went in for thyroid testing last week Mon.  I knew I needed a higher dose, so for about 5 days I cut my dose down to about half.  The day after that I need to cut my dose. 5 years ago, I tested as needing thyroid.  But since then my tests have been confusing.  Confusing because they all say I’m getting too much thyroid. However, after the improvement I got when I took the two pills, I continued that for a week.  Amazing improvement. 9 or 10 months ago, my dose was cut to one and a half pills daily.  In that time my hair growth dropped to 1 1/2 inches in 9  or 10 months.  (This had been my first clue to my hypothyroidism).  And gradually my awareness and energy dropped to the point where I no longer was aware enough to see how far down I was.  On the second day after the increase I did the 3 days of dishes.  Wondering why it hadn’t bothered me, I realized my brain was so dead, I wasn’t seeing clearly, and in addition, why clean the counter if you were incapable of working there. I’m supposed to get another blood test in a month.  I wonder what it will show.I’m guessing it will read the same — that I manufacture more  than enough thyroid, but still the same reading. Could this be Hashimoto’s? I’d better get busy on the net! Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aschen, I am not sure if its a thyroid disorder all by itself, or an autoimmune disorder affecting the involving the pituatory/thyroid  adrenal glands. But its this waxing and waning kind of autoimmune response wherein  these antigens  are produced that mistake your thyroid gland cells for foreign bodiess and attack them,  inflaming you so you have thyroiditis. Sometimes it kills off so many cells in your thyroid gland you become hypothyroid, and are said to have Hashimotos hypothyroidism. What happened to me 23 years ago.  Thyroid ceased functioning, cause my own cells attacked it. Standard treatment Hashimotos HypoT been  levothyroxine or T4 only..which has come under fire in recent years as to its adequacy because so many sufferers of hypoT wind up with depression,  fatigue, the brain fog, and worse. . Studies produced two years ago said  people given both T4 and T3, or cytomel fared better. So a lot of people with hashimotos   are now asking for T3 in addition to T4.  Some are trying the animal dessicated natural thyroid hormone said to have both T3, and T4, and bits of T1 and T2 So I am said to have Hashimotos  hypothyroidism.

Response:

Thanks, I’ll check out the newsgroup and related sites. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the answer. I went in for thyroid testing last week Mon.  I knew I needed a higher dose, so for about 5 days I cut my dose down to about half.  The day after that I need to cut my dose. 5 years ago, I tested as needing thyroid.  But since then my tests have been confusing.  Confusing because they all say I’m getting too much thyroid. However, after the improvement I got when I took the two pills, I continued that for a week.  Amazing improvement. 9 or 10 months ago, my dose was cut to one and a half pills daily.  In that time my hair growth dropped to 1 1/2 inches in 9  or 10 months.  (This had been my first clue to my hypothyroidism).  And gradually my awareness and energy dropped to the point where I no longer was aware enough to see how far down I was.  On the second day after the increase I did the 3 days of dishes.  Wondering why it hadn’t bothered me, I realized my brain was so dead, I wasn’t seeing clearly, and in addition, why clean the counter if you were incapable of working there. I’m supposed to get another blood test in a month.  I wonder what it will show.I’m guessing it will read the same — that I manufacture more  than enough thyroid, but still the same reading. Could this be Hashimoto’s? Sounds paradoxical…symptomatic of hypothyroidism  while test indicate you have too much thyroid hormone. I don’t know if that is hashimotos.   I dont know how it goes in other people,  only how it went in me, and its probably quite individual  like everything else. There is an excellent NG, called alt.support.thyroid  where there are some people who seem to me to be very knowledgable.  I lurk there, reading their posts to keep abreast of developments regarding thyroid disorders. They seem to know all the Dx’s,  and are hip and very current about  the latest testing being used, how to read the tests, the latest treatments etc etc. Plus they post links..to sites very helpful. They really know alot about it! If you have been dx’d with a thyroid disorder and have questions…that be the place get some ideas about what the answeres might be… alt.support.thyroid I’d better get busy on the net! Christina message Aschen, I am not sure if its a thyroid disorder all by itself, or an autoimmune disorder affecting the involving the pituatory/thyroid  adrenal glands. But its this waxing and waning kind of autoimmune response wherein  these antigens  are produced that mistake your thyroid gland cells for foreign bodiess and attack them,  inflaming you so you have thyroiditis. Sometimes it kills off so many cells in your thyroid gland you become hypothyroid, and are said to have Hashimotos hypothyroidism. What happened to me 23 years ago.  Thyroid ceased functioning, cause my own cells attacked it. Standard treatment Hashimotos HypoT been  levothyroxine or T4 only..which has come under fire in recent years as to its adequacy because so many sufferers of hypoT wind up with depression,  fatigue, the brain fog, and worse. . Studies produced two years ago said  people given both T4 and T3, or cytomel fared better. So a lot of people with hashimotos   are now asking for T3 in addition to T4.  Some are trying the animal dessicated natural thyroid hormone said to have both T3, and T4, and bits of T1 and T2 So I am said to have Hashimotos  hypothyroidism.

Response:

Question:

Hi Cinderella, I just got back from my psychologist.  We discussed a change in my medicine starting last spring.  I was changed from 100 *grms of Cytomel to 75. I immediately noticed a loss of vitality and mental clarity.  Since end of summer I have been needing 10 hours of sleep, and getting fuzzy, and just lately I realized my hair growth dropped dramatically.  My progress against depression slowed, halted.  Perhaps you need Thyroid.  Be sure your Free T4 is also checked. Through therapy I have over come depression as a mood disorder, but the deeper part of depression is this lack of mental energy and acuity.  I don’t know to what degree I’ll have to learn to live with this. And yes, the clearer you are, the more it bothers you that don’t have as much energy as is your fair share.  So this can even be seen as an improvement.  Keep in mind, depression, like pneumonia, is a serious illness. And like pneumonia, you can get real bad, bit by bit, hardly noticing until you land in the hospital.  Only when you stop getting worse do you notice how bad it is.  Your first steps are so small — noticing a book,  thinking about reading it, trying to read it, reading it, and finally comprehending what you read, over a period of days.  Then you come to the point where you want to get up, and just standing 3 minutes exhausts you.  It takes a lot of steps, and causes a lot of frustration. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suffer brain fog, and its getting very very annoying.   I didnt mind it so much while depressed.  I didnt care to do much of anything,  wasnt interested in anything  etc..  But, I am no longer very depressed.  I am in better spirits than I been in a long, long  time.  All is improving except this brain fog.   I been researching it.. come to find out its comorbid with hypothtyroidism I also suffer.  So now I am looking at the remedies and it gets real annoying then, becuase the brain fog..interferes with my learning what to do about it. So now I am very annoyed with it… finally interested in knowing things again..and its interfering with my doing that.  . I have to work so hard to get anything out of all I am reading..so hard it hurts…my forehead..Not a headache..but it just hurts..like staining. This got me to thinking   maybe its fogged there cause of a sinus infection or worse..  emphysema.. Are such also the kind of things might cause this brain fog.. like you found after oxygen supply was cut off to you?

Response:

I’ve been taking Paxil on and off for about 2 years now. Over the course that Ive been taking the drug I’ve noticed that some changes have occurred which have begun to concern me. Specifically two main changes of concern are an introduction of slight aggressiveness and a gradual onset of short term memory loss and general "foggy" thinking. An example of this "foggyness" can be seen while reading a book or watching television and not being able to follow the story line due to either lack of lack of concentration and just not being able to get your thoughts in order. An example of the short term memory loss can be found in an example such as forgetting a persons name that you have just been introduced to (which is not normal for me), quickly forgetting information which you have just studied, or forgetting the way out of a new suburb which you have just entered. The onset of these two changes (especially that concerning the memory loss and thinking problems) are greatly concerning me. I would really like to hear of anyone who has also experienced these issues whilst on Paxil or any other SSRI. I would really appreciate hearing if you have experienced these issues before, and how long it took before you "got your mind back" if so at all! After you stopped taking these drugs. Please email me for I do not frequent the news groups often. Thank you in advanced, — Jay (take out the "NOSPAM")

Response:

Hi Aschenputtel, I’ve been hanging out at asdr instead of asdm.  It’s a kinder world.  And I’m more comfortable with philosophies of recovery than medical facts (which are different "facts" for different people). Nope, haven’t been doing better.  I think it was from a change in my medication.  I took it upon myself to go back from 75?gr to 100 ?gr of thyroid medication.  My useable time of mental energy has triple in the last few days since I made the change. More later.  I just wanted to be sure to answer you. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Cinderella, I just got back from my psychologist.  We discussed a change in my medicine starting last spring.  I was changed from 100 *grms of Cytomel to 75. I immediately noticed a loss of vitality and mental clarity.  Since end of summer I have been needing 10 hours of sleep, and getting fuzzy, and just lately I realized my hair growth dropped dramatically.  My progress against depression slowed, halted.  Perhaps you need Thyroid.  Be sure your Free T4 is also checked. Through therapy I have over come depression as a mood disorder, but the deeper part of depression is this lack of mental energy and acuity.  I don’t know to what degree I’ll have to learn to live with this. And yes, the clearer you are, the more it bothers you that don’t have as much energy as is your fair share.  So this can even be seen as an improvement.  Keep in mind, depression, like pneumonia, is a serious illness. And like pneumonia, you can get real bad, bit by bit, hardly noticing until you land in the hospital.  Only when you stop getting worse do you notice how bad it is.  Your first steps are so small — noticing a book, thinking about reading it, trying to read it, reading it, and finally comprehending what you read, over a period of days.  Then you come to the point where you want to get up, and just standing 3 minutes exhausts you.  It takes a lot of steps, and causes a lot of frustration. Christina Welcome back, Christina.. I noticed you hadn’t posted in some time. .I have wondered how you were, hoping you stopped posting because you gotten all better..and too busy to post. .  I am sorry  you had a little step backwards..but glad you are recovered from it now, and back now, ok again . I read your post earlier, along with ones by  Eric and  Cem Tural. and reflected on what each of you had posted today. As I considered your, their and my posts  an image of a Cross came to mind. .. The right side of the horizontal bar representing  the emotions,  the left side of the horizontal representing the mind/brain,  then the top of the vertical representing the soul or spirit…and the bottom of the vertical representing  the stomach or food or what we metabolze…and that when all are considered discretely like that… apart from one another…I wind up up on that cross, crucified  by living as if their all discrete, separate… as opposed to living in a manner where those 4 things are integrated in harmony  with one another. sigh…and boy once you let it go that far…so you crucified yourself  it so complicated  to reintergrate  such all works in harmony again. Everything you do in any one of the areas  seems to have some impact on the other areas, and not necessarily so you necessirarly always moving in the same direction…  sometimes doing something bout one aspect,  causes a setback in pulling the other away grom integration and harmony .. Not  all linear progression is what I am thinking.. Improvements  slow and gradual, like you,  then offsets,  or efforts in one area cancelling out work done in another…sometimes..  very uneven progross out of such a multifaceted disorder. When my spirits lifted..so I am now left  mostly dealing with chronic fatigue and brain fog..I thought it was from  my Hashimotos…so researched found some vitamins and minerals recommended.  And, having some improvement day by day on the fatigue, too. ..  But, it seems to me  the Brain Fog is worse now than its ever been.  Now maybe thats because i was depressed and wasnt interested in utilizing my brain the way I am now I am most interested in things again…so it only seems like the fog has thickened.  But..I dont think so..I think its thicker at times right now than it ever been..  So then I ws thinking what I posted above…maybe its unrelated to depression or my thyroid… maybe its oxygen deprivation from sinus problems or emphysema Now you post your experience and its incited more thought…like..perhaps…it is worse because of the thyroid…  Maybe, the depression lifting..is creating more action in other brain parts…and my taking all the vitmins is creating more actions physiologically..and thats creating less fatigue and more physical exertions…and mental too…even if I am straining myself mentally to push through the brain fog   I pushing more work through… and now the amount of  thyrodi hormone I was OK on per the tests..while severely depressed,  is NOT enough now.i doing mor and more….so I more hypothyroid  than when depressed   hence the brain fog thickening.LOL PERHAPS, My normal 6 mos..checkup for my hashimotos is in 4 weeks…but being I find this very annoying… to have so much more interest  and feeling blocked from fully pursuing…I think I am  impatient to wait 4 weeks to know whether its my thyroid…I guess if things have been changing… you should go in early..and breaking through of chronic depression after all this time..is maybe a Major change..  that is the  probable problem here  I think I will call tomorrow to be seen on that EARLY… Thank You..  .. … I suffer brain fog, and its getting very very annoying.   I didnt mind it so much while depressed.  I didnt care to do much of anything,  wasnt interested in anything  etc..  But, I am no longer very depressed.  I am in better spirits than I been in a long, long  time.  All is improving except this brain fog.   I been researching it.. come to find out its comorbid with hypothtyroidism I also suffer.  So now I am looking at the remedies and it gets real annoying then, becuase the brain fog..interferes with my learning what to do about it. So now I am very annoyed with it… finally interested in knowing things again..and its interfering with my doing that.  . I have to work so hard to get anything out of all I am reading..so hard it hurts…my forehead..Not a headache..but it just hurts..like staining. This got me to thinking   maybe its fogged there cause of a sinus infection or worse..  emphysema.. Are such also the kind of things might cause this brain fog.. like you found after oxygen supply was cut off to you?

Response:

Aschen, What’s Hashimotos? Christina

I have Hashimotos…depression with that makes it seem  like a black out or brown out has occurred…  However I do share the problem of what mental energy remains being poorly utilized

…… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – calming down so has sure helped, but the brain fog continues to make thinking more of a challenge than it should be…but as you said,  I shouldnt expect more than gradual improvements. B6 in particular helps me.  And be sure your hormones are co-operating too. Will do. Thanks, for this support and I let you know how it turns out about any change in treatment for the hashimots…  soon, I hope.

Response:

I would just like to thank everyone who replied to the post. Your comments have been very usefull on giving me insight which I would have been sure to overlook if it wasnt for the aid of others. Thankyou once again, and we are all very lucky to have such a tight community that are always willing to help others in their times of need and distress –Jay

Response:

Thanks, I’ll check out the newsgroup and related sites. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the answer. I went in for thyroid testing last week Mon.  I knew I needed a higher dose, so for about 5 days I cut my dose down to about half.  The day after that I need to cut my dose. 5 years ago, I tested as needing thyroid.  But since then my tests have been confusing.  Confusing because they all say I’m getting too much thyroid. However, after the improvement I got when I took the two pills, I continued that for a week.  Amazing improvement. 9 or 10 months ago, my dose was cut to one and a half pills daily.  In that time my hair growth dropped to 1 1/2 inches in 9  or 10 months.  (This had been my first clue to my hypothyroidism).  And gradually my awareness and energy dropped to the point where I no longer was aware enough to see how far down I was.  On the second day after the increase I did the 3 days of dishes.  Wondering why it hadn’t bothered me, I realized my brain was so dead, I wasn’t seeing clearly, and in addition, why clean the counter if you were incapable of working there. I’m supposed to get another blood test in a month.  I wonder what it will show.I’m guessing it will read the same — that I manufacture more  than enough thyroid, but still the same reading. Could this be Hashimoto’s? Sounds paradoxical…symptomatic of hypothyroidism  while test indicate you have too much thyroid hormone. I don’t know if that is hashimotos.   I dont know how it goes in other people,  only how it went in me, and its probably quite individual  like everything else. There is an excellent NG, called alt.support.thyroid  where there are some people who seem to me to be very knowledgable.  I lurk there, reading their posts to keep abreast of developments regarding thyroid disorders. They seem to know all the Dx’s,  and are hip and very current about  the latest testing being used, how to read the tests, the latest treatments etc etc. Plus they post links..to sites very helpful. They really know alot about it! If you have been dx’d with a thyroid disorder and have questions…that be the place get some ideas about what the answeres might be… alt.support.thyroid I’d better get busy on the net! Christina message Aschen, I am not sure if its a thyroid disorder all by itself, or an autoimmune disorder affecting the involving the pituatory/thyroid  adrenal glands. But its this waxing and waning kind of autoimmune response wherein  these antigens  are produced that mistake your thyroid gland cells for foreign bodiess and attack them,  inflaming you so you have thyroiditis. Sometimes it kills off so many cells in your thyroid gland you become hypothyroid, and are said to have Hashimotos hypothyroidism. What happened to me 23 years ago.  Thyroid ceased functioning, cause my own cells attacked it. Standard treatment Hashimotos HypoT been  levothyroxine or T4 only..which has come under fire in recent years as to its adequacy because so many sufferers of hypoT wind up with depression,  fatigue, the brain fog, and worse. . Studies produced two years ago said  people given both T4 and T3, or cytomel fared better. So a lot of people with hashimotos   are now asking for T3 in addition to T4.  Some are trying the animal dessicated natural thyroid hormone said to have both T3, and T4, and bits of T1 and T2 So I am said to have Hashimotos  hypothyroidism.

Response:

Hi Aschenputtel, For me, depression is a mental energy thing.  It gets to me when I use up my energy.  Even when I don’t read nasty posters, the aggressive energy tires me.  You should pop in here at asdr more often, especially if your own anger is easing.  It’ll help keep it that way. That’s quotable Ashen, ".. it  the pits when you can’t think straight, even when you are used to it. " B6 in particular helps me.  And be sure your hormones are co-operating too. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Aschenputtel, I’ve been hanging out at asdr instead of asdm.  It’s a kinder world. I seem to be somewhat less angry Refusing to have anything to do with anyone who is unkind has helps me remain  less angry I killfiled all here on ASD-med who always and only say unkind things to people ..anyone new posts unkindly. I regularly read posts to a half dozen other NG  but I cant bring myself to post in any.. Maybe one day…when i am sure I wont bring any baggage from the bad experience on this NG.. I can bring myself to post one of the NG my readings show are so much kinder. Glad you found yourself a NG with a climate more supportive…:) . And I’m more comfortable with philosophies of recovery than medical facts (which are different "facts" for different people). Nope, haven’t been doing better.  I think it was from a change in my medication.  I took it upon myself to go back from 75?gr to 100 ?gr of thyroid medication.  My useable time of mental energy has triple in the last few days since I made the change. That’s encouraging.. it  the pits.when you can’t think straight, even when you are used to it. .  I had some success with vitmin therapy with the depression, especially when I added Vitmin B-100.  Its Dec 14, a time I normally be vegetatively depressed..and I AM NOT!   Hoping  a change in treatment for my Hashimotos will help remedy remaining problems of chronic fatigue and brain fog… More later.  I just wanted to be sure to answer you. Thanks..

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been taking Paxil on and off for about 2 years now. Over the course that Ive been taking the drug I’ve noticed that some changes have occurred which have begun to concern me. Specifically two main changes of concern are an introduction of slight aggressiveness and a gradual onset of short term memory loss and general "foggy" thinking. An example of this "foggyness" can be seen while reading a book or watching television and not being able to follow the story line due to either lack of lack of concentration and just not being able to get your thoughts in order. An example of the short term memory loss can be found in an example such as forgetting a persons name that you have just been introduced to (which is not normal for me), quickly forgetting information which you have just studied, or forgetting the way out of a new suburb which you have just entered. The onset of these two changes (especially that concerning the memory loss and thinking problems) are greatly concerning me. I would really like to hear of anyone who has also experienced these issues whilst on Paxil or any other SSRI. I would really appreciate hearing if you have experienced these issues before, and how long it took before you "got your mind back" if so at all! After you stopped taking these drugs. Please email me for I do not frequent the news groups often. Thank you in advanced, — Jay

I have almost all of the symptoms you describe and it was caused by a hypoxiic Brain injury, due to oxygen not getting into the cells for a period. Sadly if Brain cells die they don’t come back. Y.M.M.V. — Mark Brown

Response:

Thanks for the answer. I went in for thyroid testing last week Mon.  I knew I needed a higher dose, so for about 5 days I cut my dose down to about half.  The day after that I need to cut my dose. 5 years ago, I tested as needing thyroid.  But since then my tests have been confusing.  Confusing because they all say I’m getting too much thyroid. However, after the improvement I got when I took the two pills, I continued that for a week.  Amazing improvement. 9 or 10 months ago, my dose was cut to one and a half pills daily.  In that time my hair growth dropped to 1 1/2 inches in 9  or 10 months.  (This had been my first clue to my hypothyroidism).  And gradually my awareness and energy dropped to the point where I no longer was aware enough to see how far down I was.  On the second day after the increase I did the 3 days of dishes.  Wondering why it hadn’t bothered me, I realized my brain was so dead, I wasn’t seeing clearly, and in addition, why clean the counter if you were incapable of working there. I’m supposed to get another blood test in a month.  I wonder what it will show.I’m guessing it will read the same — that I manufacture more  than enough thyroid, but still the same reading. Could this be Hashimoto’s? I’d better get busy on the net! Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aschen, I am not sure if its a thyroid disorder all by itself, or an autoimmune disorder affecting the involving the pituatory/thyroid  adrenal glands. But its this waxing and waning kind of autoimmune response wherein  these antigens  are produced that mistake your thyroid gland cells for foreign bodiess and attack them,  inflaming you so you have thyroiditis. Sometimes it kills off so many cells in your thyroid gland you become hypothyroid, and are said to have Hashimotos hypothyroidism. What happened to me 23 years ago.  Thyroid ceased functioning, cause my own cells attacked it. Standard treatment Hashimotos HypoT been  levothyroxine or T4 only..which has come under fire in recent years as to its adequacy because so many sufferers of hypoT wind up with depression,  fatigue, the brain fog, and worse. . Studies produced two years ago said  people given both T4 and T3, or cytomel fared better. So a lot of people with hashimotos   are now asking for T3 in addition to T4.  Some are trying the animal dessicated natural thyroid hormone said to have both T3, and T4, and bits of T1 and T2 So I am said to have Hashimotos  hypothyroidism.

Response:

Question:

Thanks, I’ll check out the newsgroup and related sites. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the answer. I went in for thyroid testing last week Mon.  I knew I needed a higher dose, so for about 5 days I cut my dose down to about half.  The day after that I need to cut my dose. 5 years ago, I tested as needing thyroid.  But since then my tests have been confusing.  Confusing because they all say I’m getting too much thyroid. However, after the improvement I got when I took the two pills, I continued that for a week.  Amazing improvement. 9 or 10 months ago, my dose was cut to one and a half pills daily.  In that time my hair growth dropped to 1 1/2 inches in 9  or 10 months.  (This had been my first clue to my hypothyroidism).  And gradually my awareness and energy dropped to the point where I no longer was aware enough to see how far down I was.  On the second day after the increase I did the 3 days of dishes.  Wondering why it hadn’t bothered me, I realized my brain was so dead, I wasn’t seeing clearly, and in addition, why clean the counter if you were incapable of working there. I’m supposed to get another blood test in a month.  I wonder what it will show.I’m guessing it will read the same — that I manufacture more  than enough thyroid, but still the same reading. Could this be Hashimoto’s? Sounds paradoxical…symptomatic of hypothyroidism  while test indicate you have too much thyroid hormone. I don’t know if that is hashimotos.   I dont know how it goes in other people,  only how it went in me, and its probably quite individual  like everything else. There is an excellent NG, called alt.support.thyroid  where there are some people who seem to me to be very knowledgable.  I lurk there, reading their posts to keep abreast of developments regarding thyroid disorders. They seem to know all the Dx’s,  and are hip and very current about  the latest testing being used, how to read the tests, the latest treatments etc etc. Plus they post links..to sites very helpful. They really know alot about it! If you have been dx’d with a thyroid disorder and have questions…that be the place get some ideas about what the answeres might be… alt.support.thyroid I’d better get busy on the net! Christina message Aschen, I am not sure if its a thyroid disorder all by itself, or an autoimmune disorder affecting the involving the pituatory/thyroid  adrenal glands. But its this waxing and waning kind of autoimmune response wherein  these antigens  are produced that mistake your thyroid gland cells for foreign bodiess and attack them,  inflaming you so you have thyroiditis. Sometimes it kills off so many cells in your thyroid gland you become hypothyroid, and are said to have Hashimotos hypothyroidism. What happened to me 23 years ago.  Thyroid ceased functioning, cause my own cells attacked it. Standard treatment Hashimotos HypoT been  levothyroxine or T4 only..which has come under fire in recent years as to its adequacy because so many sufferers of hypoT wind up with depression,  fatigue, the brain fog, and worse. . Studies produced two years ago said  people given both T4 and T3, or cytomel fared better. So a lot of people with hashimotos   are now asking for T3 in addition to T4.  Some are trying the animal dessicated natural thyroid hormone said to have both T3, and T4, and bits of T1 and T2 So I am said to have Hashimotos  hypothyroidism.

Response:

I would just like to thank everyone who replied to the post. Your comments have been very usefull on giving me insight which I would have been sure to overlook if it wasnt for the aid of others. Thankyou once again, and we are all very lucky to have such a tight community that are always willing to help others in their times of need and distress –Jay

Response:

Aschen, What’s Hashimotos? Christina

I have Hashimotos…depression with that makes it seem  like a black out or brown out has occurred…  However I do share the problem of what mental energy remains being poorly utilized

…… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – calming down so has sure helped, but the brain fog continues to make thinking more of a challenge than it should be…but as you said,  I shouldnt expect more than gradual improvements. B6 in particular helps me.  And be sure your hormones are co-operating too. Will do. Thanks, for this support and I let you know how it turns out about any change in treatment for the hashimots…  soon, I hope.

Response:

Thanks for the answer. I went in for thyroid testing last week Mon.  I knew I needed a higher dose, so for about 5 days I cut my dose down to about half.  The day after that I need to cut my dose. 5 years ago, I tested as needing thyroid.  But since then my tests have been confusing.  Confusing because they all say I’m getting too much thyroid. However, after the improvement I got when I took the two pills, I continued that for a week.  Amazing improvement. 9 or 10 months ago, my dose was cut to one and a half pills daily.  In that time my hair growth dropped to 1 1/2 inches in 9  or 10 months.  (This had been my first clue to my hypothyroidism).  And gradually my awareness and energy dropped to the point where I no longer was aware enough to see how far down I was.  On the second day after the increase I did the 3 days of dishes.  Wondering why it hadn’t bothered me, I realized my brain was so dead, I wasn’t seeing clearly, and in addition, why clean the counter if you were incapable of working there. I’m supposed to get another blood test in a month.  I wonder what it will show.I’m guessing it will read the same — that I manufacture more  than enough thyroid, but still the same reading. Could this be Hashimoto’s? I’d better get busy on the net! Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aschen, I am not sure if its a thyroid disorder all by itself, or an autoimmune disorder affecting the involving the pituatory/thyroid  adrenal glands. But its this waxing and waning kind of autoimmune response wherein  these antigens  are produced that mistake your thyroid gland cells for foreign bodiess and attack them,  inflaming you so you have thyroiditis. Sometimes it kills off so many cells in your thyroid gland you become hypothyroid, and are said to have Hashimotos hypothyroidism. What happened to me 23 years ago.  Thyroid ceased functioning, cause my own cells attacked it. Standard treatment Hashimotos HypoT been  levothyroxine or T4 only..which has come under fire in recent years as to its adequacy because so many sufferers of hypoT wind up with depression,  fatigue, the brain fog, and worse. . Studies produced two years ago said  people given both T4 and T3, or cytomel fared better. So a lot of people with hashimotos   are now asking for T3 in addition to T4.  Some are trying the animal dessicated natural thyroid hormone said to have both T3, and T4, and bits of T1 and T2 So I am said to have Hashimotos  hypothyroidism.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – recovery Thanks for the answer. I went in for thyroid testing last week Mon.  I knew I needed a higher dose, so for about 5 days I cut my dose down to about half.  The day after that I need to cut my dose. 5 years ago, I tested as needing thyroid.  But since then my tests have been confusing.  Confusing because they all say I’m getting too much thyroid. However, after the improvement I got when I took the two pills, I continued that for a week.  Amazing improvement. 9 or 10 months ago, my dose was cut to one and a half pills daily.  In that time my hair growth dropped to 1 1/2 inches in 9  or 10 months.  (This had been my first clue to my hypothyroidism).  And gradually my awareness and energy dropped to the point where I no longer was aware enough to see how far down I was.  On the second day after the increase I did the 3 days of dishes.  Wondering why it hadn’t bothered me, I realized my brain was so dead, I wasn’t seeing clearly, and in addition, why clean the counter if you were incapable of working there. I’m supposed to get another blood test in a month.  I wonder what it will show.I’m guessing it will read the same — that I manufacture more  than enough thyroid, but still the same reading. Could this be Hashimoto’s? I’d better get busy on the net! Christina Aschen, I am not sure if its a thyroid disorder all by itself, or an autoimmune disorder affecting the involving the pituatory/thyroid  adrenal glands. But its this waxing and waning kind of autoimmune response wherein  these antigens  are produced that mistake your thyroid gland cells for foreign bodiess and attack them,  inflaming you so you have thyroiditis. Sometimes it kills off so many cells in your thyroid gland you become hypothyroid, and are said to have Hashimotos hypothyroidism. What happened to me 23 years ago.  Thyroid ceased functioning, cause my own cells attacked it. Standard treatment Hashimotos HypoT been  levothyroxine or T4 only..which has come under fire in recent years as to its adequacy because so many sufferers of hypoT wind up with depression,  fatigue, the brain fog, and worse. . Studies produced two years ago said  people given both T4 and T3, or cytomel fared better. So a lot of people with hashimotos   are now asking for T3 in addition to T4.  Some are trying the animal dessicated natural thyroid hormone said to have both T3, and T4, and bits of T1 and T2 So I am said to have Hashimotos  hypothyroidism.

have them do a free thyroxine serum a t3 and t4 and a fsh titer as well -one can have variations in blood levels of all thyroid hormones exogenously replaced depending on how your thyroid is functioning and how you metabolize the hormones-monthly tests should be done until you are stabilized-if you od on thyroid replacement drugs you will feel a momentary increase of energy and activity, even euphoria, but if you realy don’t need the excess level this soon will become anxiety-so you may indeed have an endogenous depression on top of this-a dexamethasone supression test may be helpful LM

Response:

Hi Aschenputtel, For me, depression is a mental energy thing.  It gets to me when I use up my energy.  Even when I don’t read nasty posters, the aggressive energy tires me.  You should pop in here at asdr more often, especially if your own anger is easing.  It’ll help keep it that way. That’s quotable Ashen, ".. it  the pits when you can’t think straight, even when you are used to it. " B6 in particular helps me.  And be sure your hormones are co-operating too. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Aschenputtel, I’ve been hanging out at asdr instead of asdm.  It’s a kinder world. I seem to be somewhat less angry Refusing to have anything to do with anyone who is unkind has helps me remain  less angry I killfiled all here on ASD-med who always and only say unkind things to people ..anyone new posts unkindly. I regularly read posts to a half dozen other NG  but I cant bring myself to post in any.. Maybe one day…when i am sure I wont bring any baggage from the bad experience on this NG.. I can bring myself to post one of the NG my readings show are so much kinder. Glad you found yourself a NG with a climate more supportive…:) . And I’m more comfortable with philosophies of recovery than medical facts (which are different "facts" for different people). Nope, haven’t been doing better.  I think it was from a change in my medication.  I took it upon myself to go back from 75?gr to 100 ?gr of thyroid medication.  My useable time of mental energy has triple in the last few days since I made the change. That’s encouraging.. it  the pits.when you can’t think straight, even when you are used to it. .  I had some success with vitmin therapy with the depression, especially when I added Vitmin B-100.  Its Dec 14, a time I normally be vegetatively depressed..and I AM NOT!   Hoping  a change in treatment for my Hashimotos will help remedy remaining problems of chronic fatigue and brain fog… More later.  I just wanted to be sure to answer you. Thanks..

Response:

i was on paxil for 6 or 9 months-it was all a blur.  i dont remember much-i was a zombie- go to work, come home-no drive no emotion.  plus no orgasm.

Response:

Hi Aschenputtel, I’ve been hanging out at asdr instead of asdm.  It’s a kinder world.  And I’m more comfortable with philosophies of recovery than medical facts (which are different "facts" for different people). Nope, haven’t been doing better.  I think it was from a change in my medication.  I took it upon myself to go back from 75?gr to 100 ?gr of thyroid medication.  My useable time of mental energy has triple in the last few days since I made the change. More later.  I just wanted to be sure to answer you. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Cinderella, I just got back from my psychologist.  We discussed a change in my medicine starting last spring.  I was changed from 100 *grms of Cytomel to 75. I immediately noticed a loss of vitality and mental clarity.  Since end of summer I have been needing 10 hours of sleep, and getting fuzzy, and just lately I realized my hair growth dropped dramatically.  My progress against depression slowed, halted.  Perhaps you need Thyroid.  Be sure your Free T4 is also checked. Through therapy I have over come depression as a mood disorder, but the deeper part of depression is this lack of mental energy and acuity.  I don’t know to what degree I’ll have to learn to live with this. And yes, the clearer you are, the more it bothers you that don’t have as much energy as is your fair share.  So this can even be seen as an improvement.  Keep in mind, depression, like pneumonia, is a serious illness. And like pneumonia, you can get real bad, bit by bit, hardly noticing until you land in the hospital.  Only when you stop getting worse do you notice how bad it is.  Your first steps are so small — noticing a book, thinking about reading it, trying to read it, reading it, and finally comprehending what you read, over a period of days.  Then you come to the point where you want to get up, and just standing 3 minutes exhausts you.  It takes a lot of steps, and causes a lot of frustration. Christina Welcome back, Christina.. I noticed you hadn’t posted in some time. .I have wondered how you were, hoping you stopped posting because you gotten all better..and too busy to post. .  I am sorry  you had a little step backwards..but glad you are recovered from it now, and back now, ok again . I read your post earlier, along with ones by  Eric and  Cem Tural. and reflected on what each of you had posted today. As I considered your, their and my posts  an image of a Cross came to mind. .. The right side of the horizontal bar representing  the emotions,  the left side of the horizontal representing the mind/brain,  then the top of the vertical representing the soul or spirit…and the bottom of the vertical representing  the stomach or food or what we metabolze…and that when all are considered discretely like that… apart from one another…I wind up up on that cross, crucified  by living as if their all discrete, separate… as opposed to living in a manner where those 4 things are integrated in harmony  with one another. sigh…and boy once you let it go that far…so you crucified yourself  it so complicated  to reintergrate  such all works in harmony again. Everything you do in any one of the areas  seems to have some impact on the other areas, and not necessarily so you necessirarly always moving in the same direction…  sometimes doing something bout one aspect,  causes a setback in pulling the other away grom integration and harmony .. Not  all linear progression is what I am thinking.. Improvements  slow and gradual, like you,  then offsets,  or efforts in one area cancelling out work done in another…sometimes..  very uneven progross out of such a multifaceted disorder. When my spirits lifted..so I am now left  mostly dealing with chronic fatigue and brain fog..I thought it was from  my Hashimotos…so researched found some vitamins and minerals recommended.  And, having some improvement day by day on the fatigue, too. ..  But, it seems to me  the Brain Fog is worse now than its ever been.  Now maybe thats because i was depressed and wasnt interested in utilizing my brain the way I am now I am most interested in things again…so it only seems like the fog has thickened.  But..I dont think so..I think its thicker at times right now than it ever been..  So then I ws thinking what I posted above…maybe its unrelated to depression or my thyroid… maybe its oxygen deprivation from sinus problems or emphysema Now you post your experience and its incited more thought…like..perhaps…it is worse because of the thyroid…  Maybe, the depression lifting..is creating more action in other brain parts…and my taking all the vitmins is creating more actions physiologically..and thats creating less fatigue and more physical exertions…and mental too…even if I am straining myself mentally to push through the brain fog   I pushing more work through… and now the amount of  thyrodi hormone I was OK on per the tests..while severely depressed,  is NOT enough now.i doing mor and more….so I more hypothyroid  than when depressed   hence the brain fog thickening.LOL PERHAPS, My normal 6 mos..checkup for my hashimotos is in 4 weeks…but being I find this very annoying… to have so much more interest  and feeling blocked from fully pursuing…I think I am  impatient to wait 4 weeks to know whether its my thyroid…I guess if things have been changing… you should go in early..and breaking through of chronic depression after all this time..is maybe a Major change..  that is the  probable problem here  I think I will call tomorrow to be seen on that EARLY… Thank You..  .. … I suffer brain fog, and its getting very very annoying.   I didnt mind it so much while depressed.  I didnt care to do much of anything,  wasnt interested in anything  etc..  But, I am no longer very depressed.  I am in better spirits than I been in a long, long  time.  All is improving except this brain fog.   I been researching it.. come to find out its comorbid with hypothtyroidism I also suffer.  So now I am looking at the remedies and it gets real annoying then, becuase the brain fog..interferes with my learning what to do about it. So now I am very annoyed with it… finally interested in knowing things again..and its interfering with my doing that.  . I have to work so hard to get anything out of all I am reading..so hard it hurts…my forehead..Not a headache..but it just hurts..like staining. This got me to thinking   maybe its fogged there cause of a sinus infection or worse..  emphysema.. Are such also the kind of things might cause this brain fog.. like you found after oxygen supply was cut off to you?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been taking Paxil on and off for about 2 years now. Over the course that Ive been taking the drug I’ve noticed that some changes have occurred which have begun to concern me. Specifically two main changes of concern are an introduction of slight aggressiveness and a gradual onset of short term memory loss and general "foggy" thinking. An example of this "foggyness" can be seen while reading a book or watching television and not being able to follow the story line due to either lack of lack of concentration and just not being able to get your thoughts in order. An example of the short term memory loss can be found in an example such as forgetting a persons name that you have just been introduced to (which is not normal for me), quickly forgetting information which you have just studied, or forgetting the way out of a new suburb which you have just entered. The onset of these two changes (especially that concerning the memory loss and thinking problems) are greatly concerning me. I would really like to hear of anyone who has also experienced these issues whilst on Paxil or any other SSRI. I would really appreciate hearing if you have experienced these issues before, and how long it took before you "got your mind back" if so at all! After you stopped taking these drugs. Please email me for I do not frequent the news groups often. Thank you in advanced, — Jay

I have almost all of the symptoms you describe and it was caused by a hypoxiic Brain injury, due to oxygen not getting into the cells for a period. Sadly if Brain cells die they don’t come back. Y.M.M.V. — Mark Brown

Response:

Hi Cinderella, I just got back from my psychologist.  We discussed a change in my medicine starting last spring.  I was changed from 100 *grms of Cytomel to 75. I immediately noticed a loss of vitality and mental clarity.  Since end of summer I have been needing 10 hours of sleep, and getting fuzzy, and just lately I realized my hair growth dropped dramatically.  My progress against depression slowed, halted.  Perhaps you need Thyroid.  Be sure your Free T4 is also checked. Through therapy I have over come depression as a mood disorder, but the deeper part of depression is this lack of mental energy and acuity.  I don’t know to what degree I’ll have to learn to live with this. And yes, the clearer you are, the more it bothers you that don’t have as much energy as is your fair share.  So this can even be seen as an improvement.  Keep in mind, depression, like pneumonia, is a serious illness. And like pneumonia, you can get real bad, bit by bit, hardly noticing until you land in the hospital.  Only when you stop getting worse do you notice how bad it is.  Your first steps are so small — noticing a book,  thinking about reading it, trying to read it, reading it, and finally comprehending what you read, over a period of days.  Then you come to the point where you want to get up, and just standing 3 minutes exhausts you.  It takes a lot of steps, and causes a lot of frustration. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suffer brain fog, and its getting very very annoying.   I didnt mind it so much while depressed.  I didnt care to do much of anything,  wasnt interested in anything  etc..  But, I am no longer very depressed.  I am in better spirits than I been in a long, long  time.  All is improving except this brain fog.   I been researching it.. come to find out its comorbid with hypothtyroidism I also suffer.  So now I am looking at the remedies and it gets real annoying then, becuase the brain fog..interferes with my learning what to do about it. So now I am very annoyed with it… finally interested in knowing things again..and its interfering with my doing that.  . I have to work so hard to get anything out of all I am reading..so hard it hurts…my forehead..Not a headache..but it just hurts..like staining. This got me to thinking   maybe its fogged there cause of a sinus infection or worse..  emphysema.. Are such also the kind of things might cause this brain fog.. like you found after oxygen supply was cut off to you?

Response:

I’ve been taking Paxil on and off for about 2 years now. Over the course that Ive been taking the drug I’ve noticed that some changes have occurred which have begun to concern me. Specifically two main changes of concern are an introduction of slight aggressiveness and a gradual onset of short term memory loss and general "foggy" thinking. An example of this "foggyness" can be seen while reading a book or watching television and not being able to follow the story line due to either lack of lack of concentration and just not being able to get your thoughts in order. An example of the short term memory loss can be found in an example such as forgetting a persons name that you have just been introduced to (which is not normal for me), quickly forgetting information which you have just studied, or forgetting the way out of a new suburb which you have just entered. The onset of these two changes (especially that concerning the memory loss and thinking problems) are greatly concerning me. I would really like to hear of anyone who has also experienced these issues whilst on Paxil or any other SSRI. I would really appreciate hearing if you have experienced these issues before, and how long it took before you "got your mind back" if so at all! After you stopped taking these drugs. Please email me for I do not frequent the news groups often. Thank you in advanced, — Jay (take out the "NOSPAM")

Response:

Question:

What is Paxil? Bri

Response:

I’ve been taking Paxil on and off for about 2 years now. Over the course that Ive been taking the drug I’ve noticed that some changes have occurred which have begun to concern me. Specifically two main changes of concern are an introduction of slight aggressiveness and a gradual onset of short term memory loss and general "foggy" thinking.

snip Paxil is a brand-name for paroxetine. If you feel that the medication is giving you side-effects that you don’t want to tolerate, then your doctor should be able to prescribe something different.  There are many alternatives, and each person seems to react differently. I have read that memory problems can be associated with Depression, so the mediacation may not be entirely to blame – discuss this with your doctor Good Luck (By the way, ‘cross-posting’ is widely frowned upon, and lots of people automatically ignore or filter out anything sent to more than say two groups at once) — —  Whiskers

Response:

I’ve been taking Paxil on and off for about 2 years now. Over the course that Ive been taking the drug I’ve noticed that some changes have occurred which have begun to concern me. Specifically two main changes of concern are an introduction of slight aggressiveness and a gradual onset of short term memory loss and general "foggy" thinking. An example of this "foggyness" can be seen while reading a book or watching television and not being able to follow the story line due to either lack of lack of concentration and just not being able to get your thoughts in order. An example of the short term memory loss can be found in an example such as forgetting a persons name that you have just been introduced to (which is not normal for me), quickly forgetting information which you have just studied, or forgetting the way out of a new suburb which you have just entered. The onset of these two changes (especially that concerning the memory loss and thinking problems) are greatly concerning me. I would really like to hear of anyone who has also experienced these issues whilst on Paxil or any other SSRI. I would really appreciate hearing if you have experienced these issues before, and how long it took before you "got your mind back" if so at all! After you stopped taking these drugs. Please email me for I do not frequent the news groups often. Thank you in advanced, — Jay (take out the "NOSPAM")

Response:

Hi Aschenputtel, For me, depression is a mental energy thing.  It gets to me when I use up my energy.  Even when I don’t read nasty posters, the aggressive energy tires me.  You should pop in here at asdr more often, especially if your own anger is easing.  It’ll help keep it that way. That’s quotable Ashen, ".. it  the pits when you can’t think straight, even when you are used to it. " B6 in particular helps me.  And be sure your hormones are co-operating too. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Aschenputtel, I’ve been hanging out at asdr instead of asdm.  It’s a kinder world. I seem to be somewhat less angry Refusing to have anything to do with anyone who is unkind has helps me remain  less angry I killfiled all here on ASD-med who always and only say unkind things to people ..anyone new posts unkindly. I regularly read posts to a half dozen other NG  but I cant bring myself to post in any.. Maybe one day…when i am sure I wont bring any baggage from the bad experience on this NG.. I can bring myself to post one of the NG my readings show are so much kinder. Glad you found yourself a NG with a climate more supportive…:) . And I’m more comfortable with philosophies of recovery than medical facts (which are different "facts" for different people). Nope, haven’t been doing better.  I think it was from a change in my medication.  I took it upon myself to go back from 75?gr to 100 ?gr of thyroid medication.  My useable time of mental energy has triple in the last few days since I made the change. That’s encouraging.. it  the pits.when you can’t think straight, even when you are used to it. .  I had some success with vitmin therapy with the depression, especially when I added Vitmin B-100.  Its Dec 14, a time I normally be vegetatively depressed..and I AM NOT!   Hoping  a change in treatment for my Hashimotos will help remedy remaining problems of chronic fatigue and brain fog… More later.  I just wanted to be sure to answer you. Thanks..

Response:

Aschen, What’s Hashimotos? Christina

I have Hashimotos…depression with that makes it seem  like a black out or brown out has occurred…  However I do share the problem of what mental energy remains being poorly utilized

…… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – calming down so has sure helped, but the brain fog continues to make thinking more of a challenge than it should be…but as you said,  I shouldnt expect more than gradual improvements. B6 in particular helps me.  And be sure your hormones are co-operating too. Will do. Thanks, for this support and I let you know how it turns out about any change in treatment for the hashimots…  soon, I hope.

Response:

I would just like to thank everyone who replied to the post. Your comments have been very usefull on giving me insight which I would have been sure to overlook if it wasnt for the aid of others. Thankyou once again, and we are all very lucky to have such a tight community that are always willing to help others in their times of need and distress –Jay

Response:

Hi Aschenputtel, I’ve been hanging out at asdr instead of asdm.  It’s a kinder world.  And I’m more comfortable with philosophies of recovery than medical facts (which are different "facts" for different people). Nope, haven’t been doing better.  I think it was from a change in my medication.  I took it upon myself to go back from 75?gr to 100 ?gr of thyroid medication.  My useable time of mental energy has triple in the last few days since I made the change. More later.  I just wanted to be sure to answer you. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Cinderella, I just got back from my psychologist.  We discussed a change in my medicine starting last spring.  I was changed from 100 *grms of Cytomel to 75. I immediately noticed a loss of vitality and mental clarity.  Since end of summer I have been needing 10 hours of sleep, and getting fuzzy, and just lately I realized my hair growth dropped dramatically.  My progress against depression slowed, halted.  Perhaps you need Thyroid.  Be sure your Free T4 is also checked. Through therapy I have over come depression as a mood disorder, but the deeper part of depression is this lack of mental energy and acuity.  I don’t know to what degree I’ll have to learn to live with this. And yes, the clearer you are, the more it bothers you that don’t have as much energy as is your fair share.  So this can even be seen as an improvement.  Keep in mind, depression, like pneumonia, is a serious illness. And like pneumonia, you can get real bad, bit by bit, hardly noticing until you land in the hospital.  Only when you stop getting worse do you notice how bad it is.  Your first steps are so small — noticing a book, thinking about reading it, trying to read it, reading it, and finally comprehending what you read, over a period of days.  Then you come to the point where you want to get up, and just standing 3 minutes exhausts you.  It takes a lot of steps, and causes a lot of frustration. Christina Welcome back, Christina.. I noticed you hadn’t posted in some time. .I have wondered how you were, hoping you stopped posting because you gotten all better..and too busy to post. .  I am sorry  you had a little step backwards..but glad you are recovered from it now, and back now, ok again . I read your post earlier, along with ones by  Eric and  Cem Tural. and reflected on what each of you had posted today. As I considered your, their and my posts  an image of a Cross came to mind. .. The right side of the horizontal bar representing  the emotions,  the left side of the horizontal representing the mind/brain,  then the top of the vertical representing the soul or spirit…and the bottom of the vertical representing  the stomach or food or what we metabolze…and that when all are considered discretely like that… apart from one another…I wind up up on that cross, crucified  by living as if their all discrete, separate… as opposed to living in a manner where those 4 things are integrated in harmony  with one another. sigh…and boy once you let it go that far…so you crucified yourself  it so complicated  to reintergrate  such all works in harmony again. Everything you do in any one of the areas  seems to have some impact on the other areas, and not necessarily so you necessirarly always moving in the same direction…  sometimes doing something bout one aspect,  causes a setback in pulling the other away grom integration and harmony .. Not  all linear progression is what I am thinking.. Improvements  slow and gradual, like you,  then offsets,  or efforts in one area cancelling out work done in another…sometimes..  very uneven progross out of such a multifaceted disorder. When my spirits lifted..so I am now left  mostly dealing with chronic fatigue and brain fog..I thought it was from  my Hashimotos…so researched found some vitamins and minerals recommended.  And, having some improvement day by day on the fatigue, too. ..  But, it seems to me  the Brain Fog is worse now than its ever been.  Now maybe thats because i was depressed and wasnt interested in utilizing my brain the way I am now I am most interested in things again…so it only seems like the fog has thickened.  But..I dont think so..I think its thicker at times right now than it ever been..  So then I ws thinking what I posted above…maybe its unrelated to depression or my thyroid… maybe its oxygen deprivation from sinus problems or emphysema Now you post your experience and its incited more thought…like..perhaps…it is worse because of the thyroid…  Maybe, the depression lifting..is creating more action in other brain parts…and my taking all the vitmins is creating more actions physiologically..and thats creating less fatigue and more physical exertions…and mental too…even if I am straining myself mentally to push through the brain fog   I pushing more work through… and now the amount of  thyrodi hormone I was OK on per the tests..while severely depressed,  is NOT enough now.i doing mor and more….so I more hypothyroid  than when depressed   hence the brain fog thickening.LOL PERHAPS, My normal 6 mos..checkup for my hashimotos is in 4 weeks…but being I find this very annoying… to have so much more interest  and feeling blocked from fully pursuing…I think I am  impatient to wait 4 weeks to know whether its my thyroid…I guess if things have been changing… you should go in early..and breaking through of chronic depression after all this time..is maybe a Major change..  that is the  probable problem here  I think I will call tomorrow to be seen on that EARLY… Thank You..  .. … I suffer brain fog, and its getting very very annoying.   I didnt mind it so much while depressed.  I didnt care to do much of anything,  wasnt interested in anything  etc..  But, I am no longer very depressed.  I am in better spirits than I been in a long, long  time.  All is improving except this brain fog.   I been researching it.. come to find out its comorbid with hypothtyroidism I also suffer.  So now I am looking at the remedies and it gets real annoying then, becuase the brain fog..interferes with my learning what to do about it. So now I am very annoyed with it… finally interested in knowing things again..and its interfering with my doing that.  . I have to work so hard to get anything out of all I am reading..so hard it hurts…my forehead..Not a headache..but it just hurts..like staining. This got me to thinking   maybe its fogged there cause of a sinus infection or worse..  emphysema.. Are such also the kind of things might cause this brain fog.. like you found after oxygen supply was cut off to you?

Response:

Thanks, I’ll check out the newsgroup and related sites. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the answer. I went in for thyroid testing last week Mon.  I knew I needed a higher dose, so for about 5 days I cut my dose down to about half.  The day after that I need to cut my dose. 5 years ago, I tested as needing thyroid.  But since then my tests have been confusing.  Confusing because they all say I’m getting too much thyroid. However, after the improvement I got when I took the two pills, I continued that for a week.  Amazing improvement. 9 or 10 months ago, my dose was cut to one and a half pills daily.  In that time my hair growth dropped to 1 1/2 inches in 9  or 10 months.  (This had been my first clue to my hypothyroidism).  And gradually my awareness and energy dropped to the point where I no longer was aware enough to see how far down I was.  On the second day after the increase I did the 3 days of dishes.  Wondering why it hadn’t bothered me, I realized my brain was so dead, I wasn’t seeing clearly, and in addition, why clean the counter if you were incapable of working there. I’m supposed to get another blood test in a month.  I wonder what it will show.I’m guessing it will read the same — that I manufacture more  than enough thyroid, but still the same reading. Could this be Hashimoto’s? Sounds paradoxical…symptomatic of hypothyroidism  while test indicate you have too much thyroid hormone. I don’t know if that is hashimotos.   I dont know how it goes in other people,  only how it went in me, and its probably quite individual  like everything else. There is an excellent NG, called alt.support.thyroid  where there are some people who seem to me to be very knowledgable.  I lurk there, reading their posts to keep abreast of developments regarding thyroid disorders. They seem to know all the Dx’s,  and are hip and very current about  the latest testing being used, how to read the tests, the latest treatments etc etc. Plus they post links..to sites very helpful. They really know alot about it! If you have been dx’d with a thyroid disorder and have questions…that be the place get some ideas about what the answeres might be… alt.support.thyroid I’d better get busy on the net! Christina message Aschen, I am not sure if its a thyroid disorder all by itself, or an autoimmune disorder affecting the involving the pituatory/thyroid  adrenal glands. But its this waxing and waning kind of autoimmune response wherein  these antigens  are produced that mistake your thyroid gland cells for foreign bodiess and attack them,  inflaming you so you have thyroiditis. Sometimes it kills off so many cells in your thyroid gland you become hypothyroid, and are said to have Hashimotos hypothyroidism. What happened to me 23 years ago.  Thyroid ceased functioning, cause my own cells attacked it. Standard treatment Hashimotos HypoT been  levothyroxine or T4 only..which has come under fire in recent years as to its adequacy because so many sufferers of hypoT wind up with depression,  fatigue, the brain fog, and worse. . Studies produced two years ago said  people given both T4 and T3, or cytomel fared better. So a lot of people with hashimotos   are now asking for T3 in addition to T4.  Some are trying the animal dessicated natural thyroid hormone said to have both T3, and T4, and bits of T1 and T2 So I am said to have Hashimotos  hypothyroidism.

Response:

Thanks for the answer. I went in for thyroid testing last week Mon.  I knew I needed a higher dose, so for about 5 days I cut my dose down to about half.  The day after that I need to cut my dose. 5 years ago, I tested as needing thyroid.  But since then my tests have been confusing.  Confusing because they all say I’m getting too much thyroid. However, after the improvement I got when I took the two pills, I continued that for a week.  Amazing improvement. 9 or 10 months ago, my dose was cut to one and a half pills daily.  In that time my hair growth dropped to 1 1/2 inches in 9  or 10 months.  (This had been my first clue to my hypothyroidism).  And gradually my awareness and energy dropped to the point where I no longer was aware enough to see how far down I was.  On the second day after the increase I did the 3 days of dishes.  Wondering why it hadn’t bothered me, I realized my brain was so dead, I wasn’t seeing clearly, and in addition, why clean the counter if you were incapable of working there. I’m supposed to get another blood test in a month.  I wonder what it will show.I’m guessing it will read the same — that I manufacture more  than enough thyroid, but still the same reading. Could this be Hashimoto’s? I’d better get busy on the net! Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aschen, I am not sure if its a thyroid disorder all by itself, or an autoimmune disorder affecting the involving the pituatory/thyroid  adrenal glands. But its this waxing and waning kind of autoimmune response wherein  these antigens  are produced that mistake your thyroid gland cells for foreign bodiess and attack them,  inflaming you so you have thyroiditis. Sometimes it kills off so many cells in your thyroid gland you become hypothyroid, and are said to have Hashimotos hypothyroidism. What happened to me 23 years ago.  Thyroid ceased functioning, cause my own cells attacked it. Standard treatment Hashimotos HypoT been  levothyroxine or T4 only..which has come under fire in recent years as to its adequacy because so many sufferers of hypoT wind up with depression,  fatigue, the brain fog, and worse. . Studies produced two years ago said  people given both T4 and T3, or cytomel fared better. So a lot of people with hashimotos   are now asking for T3 in addition to T4.  Some are trying the animal dessicated natural thyroid hormone said to have both T3, and T4, and bits of T1 and T2 So I am said to have Hashimotos  hypothyroidism.

Response:

Hi Cinderella, I just got back from my psychologist.  We discussed a change in my medicine starting last spring.  I was changed from 100 *grms of Cytomel to 75. I immediately noticed a loss of vitality and mental clarity.  Since end of summer I have been needing 10 hours of sleep, and getting fuzzy, and just lately I realized my hair growth dropped dramatically.  My progress against depression slowed, halted.  Perhaps you need Thyroid.  Be sure your Free T4 is also checked. Through therapy I have over come depression as a mood disorder, but the deeper part of depression is this lack of mental energy and acuity.  I don’t know to what degree I’ll have to learn to live with this. And yes, the clearer you are, the more it bothers you that don’t have as much energy as is your fair share.  So this can even be seen as an improvement.  Keep in mind, depression, like pneumonia, is a serious illness. And like pneumonia, you can get real bad, bit by bit, hardly noticing until you land in the hospital.  Only when you stop getting worse do you notice how bad it is.  Your first steps are so small — noticing a book,  thinking about reading it, trying to read it, reading it, and finally comprehending what you read, over a period of days.  Then you come to the point where you want to get up, and just standing 3 minutes exhausts you.  It takes a lot of steps, and causes a lot of frustration. Christina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suffer brain fog, and its getting very very annoying.   I didnt mind it so much while depressed.  I didnt care to do much of anything,  wasnt interested in anything  etc..  But, I am no longer very depressed.  I am in better spirits than I been in a long, long  time.  All is improving except this brain fog.   I been researching it.. come to find out its comorbid with hypothtyroidism I also suffer.  So now I am looking at the remedies and it gets real annoying then, becuase the brain fog..interferes with my learning what to do about it. So now I am very annoyed with it… finally interested in knowing things again..and its interfering with my doing that.  . I have to work so hard to get anything out of all I am reading..so hard it hurts…my forehead..Not a headache..but it just hurts..like staining. This got me to thinking   maybe its fogged there cause of a sinus infection or worse..  emphysema.. Are such also the kind of things might cause this brain fog.. like you found after oxygen supply was cut off to you?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been taking Paxil on and off for about 2 years now. Over the course that Ive been taking the drug I’ve noticed that some changes have occurred which have begun to concern me. Specifically two main changes of concern are an introduction of slight aggressiveness and a gradual onset of short term memory loss and general "foggy" thinking. An example of this "foggyness" can be seen while reading a book or watching television and not being able to follow the story line due to either lack of lack of concentration and just not being able to get your thoughts in order. An example of the short term memory loss can be found in an example such as forgetting a persons name that you have just been introduced to (which is not normal for me), quickly forgetting information which you have just studied, or forgetting the way out of a new suburb which you have just entered. The onset of these two changes (especially that concerning the memory loss and thinking problems) are greatly concerning me. I would really like to hear of anyone who has also experienced these issues whilst on Paxil or any other SSRI. I would really appreciate hearing if you have experienced these issues before, and how long it took before you "got your mind back" if so at all! After you stopped taking these drugs. Please email me for I do not frequent the news groups often. Thank you in advanced, — Jay

I have almost all of the symptoms you describe and it was caused by a hypoxiic Brain injury, due to oxygen not getting into the cells for a period. Sadly if Brain cells die they don’t come back. Y.M.M.V. — Mark Brown

Response:

Question:

I’m glad it’s my left leg that’s affected by MS and not my right. That way I can drive without had controls. That’s important, because I need to drive every weekday and when my car is in the shop (rarely since I got a new engine), I rent a car. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rhonda wrote:

ooh ooh….mine are in my left leg, too!!! twins! Rhonda On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:36:54 GMT, Kip King <wodi…@home.com wrote: Rhonda, Thanks. I have muscle spasms, in my left leg only, when I wake up in the morning. IV Ca-AEP has taken away all of the symptoms of MS in my other three limbs.                                               Best wishes to you too, Kip Rhonda wrote: Kip, I recently began taking Baclofen for Myoclonus. I had to work my way up to 40 mg to get the muscle spasms to completely go away. In the beginning, I had the side-effect of dry mouth, but that has dissipated. I have also had trouble w/ constipation, as the peristalsis waves of the colon, which is a muscle itself, have also been affected. I am working on a remedy for that. If you are having muscle spasms, I would recommend it. Best wishes, Rhonda On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:17:12 GMT, Kip King <wodi…@home.com wrote: Anyone know anything about it?

Response:

You know, I wonder about that left leg thing, because all dozen members of my MS men’s group have problems with their left leg and not their right (except for two who a lucky enough not to have leg problems). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rhonda wrote:

ooh ooh….mine are in my left leg, too!!! twins! Rhonda On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:36:54 GMT, Kip King <wodi…@home.com wrote: Rhonda, Thanks. I have muscle spasms, in my left leg only, when I wake up in the morning. IV Ca-AEP has taken away all of the symptoms of MS in my other three limbs.                                               Best wishes to you too, Kip Rhonda wrote: Kip, I recently began taking Baclofen for Myoclonus. I had to work my way up to 40 mg to get the muscle spasms to completely go away. In the beginning, I had the side-effect of dry mouth, but that has dissipated. I have also had trouble w/ constipation, as the peristalsis waves of the colon, which is a muscle itself, have also been affected. I am working on a remedy for that. If you are having muscle spasms, I would recommend it. Best wishes, Rhonda On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:17:12 GMT, Kip King <wodi…@home.com wrote: Anyone know anything about it?

Response:

Anyone know anything about it?

Response:

"Kip King" <wodi…@home.com

wrote in message

news:3C07BF16.1503BEF1@home.com…

Anyone know anything about it?

The baclofen (or other name is lioresel) is for spasticity and the muscle twitches. Some of us can get by with 10mg multiple times during the day (I take about 60mg/day) and others have to take quite a bit. For the really severe types there’s a baclofen pump, but I don’t know anyone who has to use it. There was some discussion of it on the group a while back. — Shirley B. Remove  123   if replying directly. Webmaster: http://mhcr.healingwell.com – - a positive newsletter for people w/all types of     disabililties – 3 yrs worth of articles & news Or my personal site at: http://www.geocities.com/rae2307

Response:

Kip, I recently began taking Baclofen for Myoclonus. I had to work my way up to 40 mg to get the muscle spasms to completely go away. In the beginning, I had the side-effect of dry mouth, but that has dissipated. I have also had trouble w/ constipation, as the peristalsis waves of the colon, which is a muscle itself, have also been affected. I am working on a remedy for that. If you are having muscle spasms, I would recommend it. Best wishes, Rhonda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:17:12 GMT, Kip King <wodi…@home.com

wrote: Anyone know anything about it?

Response:

Shirley B.,                                                         Thanks. I see that I did spell it right (so I’ve removed the <sp

from

the header).                                                   Kip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Shirley B." wrote:

"Kip King" <wodi…@home.com wrote in message news:3C07BF16.1503BEF1@home.com… Anyone know anything about it? The baclofen (or other name is lioresel) is for spasticity and the muscle twitches. Some of us can get by with 10mg multiple times during the day (I take about 60mg/day) and others have to take quite a bit. For the really severe types there’s a baclofen pump, but I don’t know anyone who has to use it. There was some discussion of it on the group a while back. — Shirley B. Remove  123   if replying directly. Webmaster: http://mhcr.healingwell.com – - a positive newsletter for people w/all types of     disabililties – 3 yrs worth of articles & news Or my personal site at: http://www.geocities.com/rae2307

Response:

Rhonda,                                                             Thanks. I have muscle spasms, in my left leg only, when I wake up in the morning. IV Ca-AEP has taken away all of the symptoms of MS in my other three limbs.                                               Best wishes to you too, Kip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rhonda wrote:

Kip, I recently began taking Baclofen for Myoclonus. I had to work my way up to 40 mg to get the muscle spasms to completely go away. In the beginning, I had the side-effect of dry mouth, but that has dissipated. I have also had trouble w/ constipation, as the peristalsis waves of the colon, which is a muscle itself, have also been affected. I am working on a remedy for that. If you are having muscle spasms, I would recommend it. Best wishes, Rhonda On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:17:12 GMT, Kip King <wodi…@home.com wrote: Anyone know anything about it?

Response:

ooh ooh….mine are in my left leg, too!!! twins! Rhonda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:36:54 GMT, Kip King <wodi…@home.com

wrote: Rhonda,                                                             Thanks. I have muscle spasms, in my left leg only, when I wake up in the morning. IV Ca-AEP has taken away all of the symptoms of MS in my other three limbs.                                               Best wishes to you too, Kip Rhonda wrote: Kip, I recently began taking Baclofen for Myoclonus. I had to work my way up to 40 mg to get the muscle spasms to completely go away. In the beginning, I had the side-effect of dry mouth, but that has dissipated. I have also had trouble w/ constipation, as the peristalsis waves of the colon, which is a muscle itself, have also been affected. I am working on a remedy for that. If you are having muscle spasms, I would recommend it. Best wishes, Rhonda On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:17:12 GMT, Kip King <wodi…@home.com wrote: Anyone know anything about it?

Response:

"Roarke"  wrote

Yep, my friend takes it for spasticity and spasms.  Extremely effective.

No

side effects (except it does lift her mood which is a plus).  Builds up after a few days continuous taking.  Sometimes she needs to stop taking it to see if the spasms and stiffness she was taking it for are still there !

AAACCCKKK!!!!!!! Never never never just "stop taking" baclofen!! This is really dangerous! Just *one* of the unpleasant possible side effects is severe seizures. ALWAYS consult yer dr about cutting back gradually. Lin (been on baclofen for 10 yrs, currently on 80mg/day)

Response:

I’ve decided not to take Baclofen. I don’t want to be dependent on a drug you can’t stop taking instantly. When I had a problem with hypothyroidism, I started taking Synthroid. I got up to a pretty high dose. It’s supposed to be something that you have to take for a lifetime. I found a natural thyroid supplement from New Zealand which enabled me to very slowly wean myself off of Synthroid in stages and normalized my thyroid function. I no longer use Synthroid and I no longer am hypo thyroid (something conventional medicine says is not possible). This next summer, I’ll be going back to Kentucky for a few weeks to visit my dad and check out a house that’s being built for me back there. While I’m back there, I’ll be off of IV Ca-AEP (I’ll still take the capsule form). I don’t anticipate any problem. (I’ve already found a doctor several miles to the north of where I’ll be, where I’ll get my IV Ca-AEP and chelation when I move there in a couple of years.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lin wrote:

"Roarke"  wrote Yep, my friend takes it for spasticity and spasms.  Extremely effective. No side effects (except it does lift her mood which is a plus).  Builds up after a few days continuous taking.  Sometimes she needs to stop taking it to see if the spasms and stiffness she was taking it for are still there ! AAACCCKKK!!!!!!! Never never never just "stop taking" baclofen!! This is really dangerous! Just *one* of the unpleasant possible side effects is severe seizures. ALWAYS consult yer dr about cutting back gradually. Lin (been on baclofen for 10 yrs, currently on 80mg/day)

Response:

On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:17:02 GMT, "Meg" <mlgerr…@1earth2link3.net

wrote:

Currently having leg problems, predominantly in the left leg. Hmmmmmmm . . .

it’s a conspiracy ! Rhonda <G

Response:

Roarke,                                                             Thanks, I’m forwarding this to my doctor.                           Kip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Roarke wrote:

Yep, my friend takes it for spasticity and spasms.  Extremely effective. No side effects (except it does lift her mood which is a plus).  Builds up after a few days continuous taking.  Sometimes she needs to stop taking it to see if the spasms and stiffness she was taking it for are still there ! – it’s that effective.  Some people say it works on the muscles, but it definitely does work on the neurotransmitters in the spinal synapses.   Just don;t suddenly drop dose or suddenly increase dose because either can have some effects.   For her it’s the difference between near normal functioning outside exacs and sometimes whant can only be called disability. She only takes it when she has bad stiffness or spasms, but finds that she’s more relaxed and agile during those times than "normally" because of the effect of the Baclofen.  Helps with muscle spasms and stiffness of the lower back too. Roarke "Kip King" <wodi…@home.com wrote in message news:3C07BF16.1503BEF1@home.com… Anyone know anything about it?

Response:

Same here, Roarke. Before the Baclofen built up enough , my ability to walk was severly impaired. Now, the only time the limp is noticeable is when I am very tired or I get off the regimen of 40 mg per day. Like your friend, I backed off of the dose gradually over a period of days to see if the spasms were still there….yup–they were….so back up on the dose I went <g

Rhonda On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:06:53 -0000, "Roarke" <mr.roa…@ntlworld.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Yep, my friend takes it for spasticity and spasms.  Extremely effective. No side effects (except it does lift her mood which is a plus).  Builds up after a few days continuous taking.  Sometimes she needs to stop taking it to see if the spasms and stiffness she was taking it for are still there ! – it’s that effective.  Some people say it works on the muscles, but it definitely does work on the neurotransmitters in the spinal synapses.   Just don;t suddenly drop dose or suddenly increase dose because either can have some effects.   For her it’s the difference between near normal functioning outside exacs and sometimes whant can only be called disability. She only takes it when she has bad stiffness or spasms, but finds that she’s more relaxed and agile during those times than "normally" because of the effect of the Baclofen.  Helps with muscle spasms and stiffness of the lower back too. Roarke "Kip King" <wodi…@home.com wrote in message news:3C07BF16.1503BEF1@home.com… Anyone know anything about it?

Response:

Currently having leg problems, predominantly in the left leg. Hmmmmmmm . . . — Best regards, Meg www.livergood.net "Rhonda" <rpw…@ix.netcom.com

wrote in message

news:ptrf0ug6b0rq7nbe6l3tk970jodns4e7m7@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

ooh ooh….mine are in my left leg, too!!! twins! Rhonda On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:36:54 GMT, Kip King <wodi…@home.com wrote: Rhonda, Thanks. I have muscle spasms, in my left leg only, when I wake up in the morning. IV Ca-AEP has taken away all of the symptoms of MS in my other three limbs.                                               Best wishes to you too, Kip Rhonda wrote: Kip, I recently began taking Baclofen for Myoclonus. I had to work my way up to 40 mg to get the muscle spasms to completely go away. In the beginning, I had the side-effect of dry mouth, but that has dissipated. I have also had trouble w/ constipation, as the peristalsis waves of the colon, which is a muscle itself, have also been affected. I am working on a remedy for that. If you are having muscle spasms, I would recommend it. Best wishes, Rhonda On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:17:12 GMT, Kip King <wodi…@home.com wrote: Anyone know anything about it?

Response:

Yep, my friend takes it for spasticity and spasms.  Extremely effective. No side effects (except it does lift her mood which is a plus).  Builds up after a few days continuous taking.  Sometimes she needs to stop taking it to see if the spasms and stiffness she was taking it for are still there ! – it’s that effective.  Some people say it works on the muscles, but it definitely does work on the neurotransmitters in the spinal synapses.   Just don;t suddenly drop dose or suddenly increase dose because either can have some effects.   For her it’s the difference between near normal functioning outside exacs and sometimes whant can only be called disability. She only takes it when she has bad stiffness or spasms, but finds that she’s more relaxed and agile during those times than "normally" because of the effect of the Baclofen.  Helps with muscle spasms and stiffness of the lower back too. Roarke "Kip King" <wodi…@home.com

wrote in message

news:3C07BF16.1503BEF1@home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Anyone know anything about it?

Response:

You know, I wonder about that left leg thing, because all dozen members of my MS men’s group have problems with their left leg and not their right (except for two who are lucky enough not to have leg problems). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rhonda wrote:

ooh ooh….mine are in my left leg, too!!! twins! Rhonda On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:36:54 GMT, Kip King <wodi…@home.com wrote: Rhonda, Thanks. I have muscle spasms, in my left leg only, when I wake up in the morning. IV Ca-AEP has taken away all of the symptoms of MS in my other three limbs.                                               Best wishes to you too, Kip Rhonda wrote: Kip, I recently began taking Baclofen for Myoclonus. I had to work my way up to 40 mg to get the muscle spasms to completely go away. In the beginning, I had the side-effect of dry mouth, but that has dissipated. I have also had trouble w/ constipation, as the peristalsis waves of the colon, which is a muscle itself, have also been affected. I am working on a remedy for that. If you are having muscle spasms, I would recommend it. Best wishes, Rhonda On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:17:12 GMT, Kip King <wodi…@home.com wrote: Anyone know anything about it?

Response:

Question:

I don’t know anything about Armour natural thyroid; all I know is that Synthroid is what is universally prescribed, and patients are discouraged from substituting with generics.

Synthroid is only T4.  Armour (natural) or Thyrolar (synthetic) are a T3/T4 combo (made by same company).  There’s been some studies within the last few years that says adding T3 (especially if a woman) that the person feels better.  I stayed on Synthroid over 20 yrs and my doctor switched me to Thyrolar based upon information gave him on this and it’s the best I’ve felt.  I got rid of a lot of the symptoms that I had never gotten rid of just taking synthroid.  My tsh sits just under 1.   Lana & Linsey (newfs), Sonny (pyr)   http://home.austin.rr.com/janices/ Hutto, TX

Response:

……Yes, that little gland has its hand in lots of metabolic processes. Thanks for sharing your story and continued health to you.

Thanks STH

Response:

I’ll tell you one thing – - you don’t realize what all the thyroid gland controls until you don’t have one and are off your Synthroid preparing for a scan! Ew, I’ve heard the no-levothyroxine time before a scan is **nasty**!

Trust me, that’s a huge understatement.  Especially for those of us who take 3 months to get back up to speed, so to speak. Sally Hennessey

Response:

Endocrinologists are not a dime a dozen, though, particularly endocrinologists with experience treating thyroid cancer, so one has to weigh one’s options carefully in deciding to change doctors.

……I hear you on that one!  I’ll tell you one thing – - you don’t realize what all the thyroid gland controls until you don’t have one and are off your Synthroid preparing for a scan!

……Yes, that little gland has its hand in lots of metabolic processes. Thanks for sharing your story and continued health to you. buglady take out the dog before replying

Response:

I’ll tell you one thing – - you don’t realize what all the thyroid gland controls until you don’t have one and are off your Synthroid preparing for a scan! Ew, I’ve heard the no-levothyroxine time before a scan is **nasty**! Trust me, that’s a huge understatement.  Especially for those of us who take 3 months to get back up to speed, so to speak.

It’s taken me 18 months just to get up to feeling halfway normal from Hashimoto’s thyroid disease. I’ve *got* a thyroid, it just works in fits and starts. But at any rate, the *dog* might feel better with thyroid supplementation. (to get it back on topic …) ` Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris "I like you guys who want smaller government – you know, just small enough to fit in our bedrooms." Josh to Congressman Skinner, The West Wing

Response:

If you have no thyroid, you’re hypothyroid. And without levothyroxine you’d be dead, but there are plenty of brands besides Synthroid. There’s also Armour natural thyroid.

No, you’re hypothyroid if your thyroid levels are lower than the normal range.  And you’re hyperthyroid if your levels are higher than normal.  If you have no thyroid, you have no thyroid, and your thyroid hormone is replaced by Synthroid or another thyroid hormone.  If your thyroid was removed because of cancer, as mine was, you are maintained at a blood level that is slightly hyperthyroid, but you may not (probably will not) feel hyperthyroid.  Many patients whose thyroids have been removed never feel quite the same even on adequate amounts of replacement hormone.  I don’t know anything about Armour natural thyroid; all I know is that Synthroid is what is universally prescribed, and patients are discouraged from substituting with generics. Sally Hennessey

Response:

I’ll tell you one thing – - you don’t realize what all the thyroid gland controls until you don’t have one and are off your Synthroid preparing for a scan!

Ew, I’ve heard the no-levothyroxine time before a scan is **nasty**! Mary, who doesn’t feel good with a TSH above 1, but is grateful that her doc recognizes 2 as the upper limit of normal, rather than 6 like some docs do ` Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris "I like you guys who want smaller government – you know, just small enough to fit in our bedrooms." Josh to Congressman Skinner, The West Wing

Response:

Sally Hennessey said Well, I’m not hypothyroid.  I have no thyroid at all, which means that without Synthroid, I’d be dead.  Most vets, like most doctors, will start at the lowest possible dose and work up, if necessary, to get to where the thyroid values should be.  Some human doctors even pay attention to how the patients feel, but I haven’t found one of those yet.

said: Yikes Sally! Are you familiar with www.about.com thyroid section?  She has a lot of good info.  Some new stuff on Synthroid, which may be taken off the market.  And a list of doctors who *listen* to the patient instead of treating the lab results.

If you have no thyroid, you’re hypothyroid. And without levothyroxine you’d be dead, but there are plenty of brands besides Synthroid. There’s also Armour natural thyroid. I also strongly recommend usenet’s alt.support.thyroid. Folks there know what they’re talkin’ about, including, in a limited way, people who are there only to beat a particular little drum. ` Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris "I like you guys who want smaller government – you know, just small enough to fit in our bedrooms." Josh to Congressman Skinner, The West Wing

Response:

Yikes Sally! Are you familiar with www.about.com thyroid section?  She has a lot of good info.  Some new stuff on Synthroid, which may be taken off the market.  And a list of doctors who *listen* to the patient instead of treating the lab results.  There are some horrendous personal stories  - like one woman whose hair kept fallling out, she went back to bed at 7:30 am after the kids were off to school and Dr. after Dr. kept telling her the *lab* tests were normal.   She didn’t feel better until she found a Dr. who would treat her instead of a piece of paper.

No.  My thyroid was removed because of cancer, and I’m on a thyroid oncology list.  I did mucho reading about thyroid disorders when I was diagnosed, which was a year and a half ago.  Read about the Synthroid scare, but no one thinks it will be taken off the market.  There are lots of horror stories out there about people who are hypothyroid by symptoms but whose tests are in the normal range, so they aren’t treated.  Endocrinologists are not a dime a dozen, though, particularly endocrinologists with experience treating thyroid cancer, so one has to weigh one’s options carefully in deciding to change doctors.  I’ll tell you one thing – - you don’t realize what all the thyroid gland controls until you don’t have one and are off your Synthroid preparing for a scan! Sally Hennessey

Response:

Yikes Sally! Are you familiar with www.about.com thyroid section?  She has a lot of good info.  Some new stuff on Synthroid, which may be taken off the market.  And a list of doctors who *listen* to the patient instead of treating the lab results.  There are some horrendous personal stories  - like one woman whose hair kept fallling out, she went back to bed at 7:30 am after the kids were off to school and Dr. after Dr. kept telling her the *lab* tests were normal.   She didn’t feel better until she found a Dr. who would treat her instead of a piece of paper. buglady take out the dog before replying – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I’m not hypothyroid.  I have no thyroid at all, which means that without Synthroid, I’d be dead.  Most vets, like most doctors, will start at the lowest possible dose and work up, if necessary, to get to where the thyroid values should be.  Some human doctors even pay attention to how the patients feel, but I haven’t found one of those yet.

Response:

Thyroid hormone is not going to be dangerous to your dog unless he gets extremely hyperthyroid, which won’t happen if he’s dosed and monitored appropriately.

If he’s anything like me, thyroid hormone will make him feel Much Much Better. (I get my blood tested every 6-12 weeks.) ` Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris "I like you guys who want smaller government – you know, just small enough to fit in our bedrooms." Josh to Congressman Skinner, The West Wing

Response:

Thyroid hormone is not going to be dangerous to your dog unless he gets extremely hyperthyroid, which won’t happen if he’s dosed and monitored appropriately. If he’s anything like me, thyroid hormone will make him feel Much Much Better. (I get my blood tested every 6-12 weeks.)

Well, I’m not hypothyroid.  I have no thyroid at all, which means that without Synthroid, I’d be dead.  Most vets, like most doctors, will start at the lowest possible dose and work up, if necessary, to get to where the thyroid values should be.  Some human doctors even pay attention to how the patients feel, but I haven’t found one of those yet. Sally Hennessey

Response:

Here is a website that should shed more light on the subject for you: http://clumbers.org/CanineHypothy.htm

Response:

The medication given for hypothyroidism is very natural since it just consists of thyroid hormone.

of the hypothyroid medications consist of. buglady take out the dog before replying

Response:

I’d try Standard Process glandular supplements first – Thytrophin, which helps the thyroid gland balance itself out.   Strictly following lab test results has led to a lot of problems in humans as many people have been told that their thyroid tests are *normal* but their hair is falling out and they can’t seem to get out of bed in the morning.  If your dog is border line you might try some thyroid supplementation to see if the symptoms improve. buglady take out the dog before repling – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our rescue boxer cross (about 10yrs old) was tested for underactive thyroid. Our Vet says the results show he is borderline and wants to put him on Thyroid tablets.His only symptoms were a total slowdown from manic (which we thought could just be his age) and a slightly scurfy coat. I don’t like the idea of giving him medication if he really does’nt need it. Please could anybody advise me?

Response:

The medication given for hypothyroidism is very natural since it just consists of thyroid hormone. of the hypothyroid medications consist of.

Either real or synthetic thyroid hormone, just like with people.   Sally Hennessey

Response:

said: of the hypothyroid medications consist of.

levothyroxine sodium ` Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris "I like you guys who want smaller government – you know, just small enough to fit in our bedrooms." Josh to Congressman Skinner, The West Wing

Response:

I’d try Standard Process glandular supplements first – Thytrophin, which helps the thyroid gland balance itself out.

My Belgians did test for being hypo, it really did not run in their lines.  So, I did alot of research and decided on a natural diet along with Thytrophin. The thyroid did balance itself out.   I have never had a problem since with the thyroid and I no longer use the Thytrophin.   This was also many years ago and the blood levels are still fine without the Thytrophin. Betsy and her Belgians

Response:

Try putting him on a raw food diet.  His problem sounds metabolic.  What does he eat?

He’s on a dry food called Supa Grayhound, (a complete, balanced diet for racing grayhounds)   This was recommended as it helps keep weight off older dogs Thanks, Angela – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Try putting him on a raw food diet.  His problem sounds metabolic.  What does he eat? He’s on a dry food called Supa Grayhound, (a complete, balanced diet for racing grayhounds)   This was recommended as it helps keep weight off older dogs

I don’t know who recommended a diet used for racing GrEyhounds for this dog, but I can almost guarantee it’s not needed.  Few dogs expend energy the way racing GrEyhounds do. Here’s a news flash for Elaine:  the vet said the problem is underactive thyroid, and Elaine says it "sounds metabolic".  The thyroid gland controls the body’s metabolism, Elaine, whether it’s human or animal.   To Angela, the OP, if your vet recommended thyroid supplementation and the test results and symptoms support that recommendation, try it. Thyroid hormone is not going to be dangerous to your dog unless he gets extremely hyperthyroid, which won’t happen if he’s dosed and monitored appropriately. Sally Hennessey

Response:

The medication won’t harm your dog, it will only compensate for the depletion of thyroid, so as far as I can see this is a win/win situation.

Response:

Angela, The medication given for hypothyroidism is very natural since it just consists of thyroid hormone. No side effects other than those expected from raising a dog’s thyroid level. Our Boston Terrier was also diagnosed with this condition and the meds (Soloxine, in this case) has helped a lot, mostly with her weight.  I do think it made her more hyper, though!  Do a web search (I suggest www.google.com) on "canine hypothyroidism" for much more information.  Oh, another plus is that the meds are very reasonably priced for this condition. Good luck!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our rescue boxer cross (about 10yrs old) was tested for underactive thyroid. Our Vet says the results show he is borderline and wants to put him on Thyroid tablets. His only symptoms were a total slowdown from manic (which we thought could just be his age) and a slightly scurfy coat. I don’t like the idea of giving him medication if he really does’nt need it. Please could anybody advise me? Thanks in advance, Angela

Response:

said: I don’t like the idea of giving him medication if he really does’nt need it. Please could anybody advise me?

Humans with underactive thyroids often feel much better through and through once they’re treated, and thyroid meds aren’t like an extra medication — they’re replacement for what the body should be producing naturally. However, if they’re not well-monitored, they can mess with the body. To do it "right", you’d have to do regular blood tests to make sure he’s not getting too much thyroid medication. There are a number of problems that can happen for humans with untreated hyperthyroidism (good info at http://thyroid.about.com) but I’m not sure if they correlate to dogs. ` Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris "I like you guys who want smaller government – you know, just small enough to fit in our bedrooms." Josh to Congressman Skinner, The West Wing

Response:

Try putting him on a raw food diet.  His problem sounds metabolic.  What does he eat?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our rescue boxer cross (about 10yrs old) was tested for underactive thyroid. Our Vet says the results show he is borderline and wants to put him on Thyroid tablets. His only symptoms were a total slowdown from manic (which we thought could just be his age) and a slightly scurfy coat. I don’t like the idea of giving him medication if he really does’nt need it. Please could anybody advise me? Thanks in advance, Angela

Response:

Our rescue boxer cross (about 10yrs old) was tested for underactive thyroid. Our Vet says the results show he is borderline and wants to put him on Thyroid tablets. His only symptoms were a total slowdown from manic (which we thought could just be his age) and a slightly scurfy coat. I don’t like the idea of giving him medication if he really does’nt need it. Please could anybody advise me? Thanks in advance, Angela

Response:

Question:

There are of course, those who see the ‘autoimmune’ dysfunction as an effect, rather than a cause, of a biological system under stress.  Genetic propensuty towards an autoimmune response would therefore be undeterminable.  (A bit like asking: because I have a scar on my chin, why don’t the rest of my family?! Take care, Mel Pam & Erik Perkins wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Yeah, my family too seems to be healthy as far as autoimmune stuff (however, my mom died of caner, and my dad has cancer)… As for me, MS, hypothyriodism, and severe food allergies.. all diagnosed at the same time ;-( Grr… Pam Sharise wrote: Thanks to everyone for input. No one else in my family has ever been as ailing as I have from one thing or another, no autoimmune or other diseases really, so I guess they gave me the crap genes. I was last in line. I have suspicions about what my trigger was but it worries me that no doctor has ever put the triggers or the two ailments together. I guess that’s part of taking charge of your own health care. Sharise PAT LOGAN <P_LO…@prodigy.net wrote in message news:8ddmui$2ohs$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com… In the past decade a plethora of conditions are categorized as "autoimmune"…that is to say we "do it to ourselves".  There are many speculations as to why.  Predisposing chromosomes are apparently necessary but that does not explain why other family members with the same "predispositions" never have it.  Apparently a trigger is necesssary which is the billion dollar question nowdays.

Response:

Thank you for your response Mel.  I don’t see autoimmunity as a cause.  I see it as a predisposing condition.  About a year ago there was more than one journal that reported (from the Genome Project) the presence of sev chromosomes that could "misdirect" the immune system and they  were cited as possible links to many autoimmune diseases and one (1) type of MS.  I think MS will undoubtedly prove to be many diseases with different triggers.  "Stress" of a biological system is a key word here I hope you will keep in touch. I found your response interesting. . Mel <melvy…@netscapeonline.co.uk

wrote in message

news:38FB6AAC.2013F7A5@netscapeonline.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

There are of course, those who see the ‘autoimmune’ dysfunction as an

effect,

rather than a cause, of a biological system under stress.  Genetic

propensuty

towards an autoimmune response would therefore be undeterminable.  (A bit

like

asking: because I have a scar on my chin, why don’t the rest of my

family?!

Take care, Mel Pam & Erik Perkins wrote: Yeah, my family too seems to be healthy as far as autoimmune stuff

(however, my

mom died of caner, and my dad has cancer)… As for me, MS, hypothyriodism, and severe food allergies.. all diagnosed

at the

same time ;-( Grr… Pam Sharise wrote: Thanks to everyone for input. No one else in my family has ever been as ailing as I have from one

thing or

another, no autoimmune or other diseases really, so I guess they gave

me the

crap genes. I was last in line. I have suspicions about what my trigger was but it worries me that no

doctor

has ever put the triggers or the two ailments together. I guess that’s

part > > > of taking charge of your own health care. > > > Sharise > > > PAT LOGAN <P_LO…@prodigy.net

wrote in message

> > > news:8ddmui$2ohs$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com… > > > > In the past decade a plethora of conditions are categorized as > > > > "autoimmune"…that is to say we "do it to ourselves".  There are many

speculations as to why.  Predisposing chromosomes are apparently

necessary

but that does not explain why other family members with the same "predispositions" never have it.  Apparently a trigger is necesssary

which

is the billion dollar question nowdays.

Response:

Hello Pat I still feel that your approach is emphasizing the causal nature of genetic propensities.  ’A predisposing condition’  still sounds like a disease. And, it seems to me that the most dangerous fault in the human genome project is the implicit  attempt to identify

Question:

I am a diabetis on thyroid meds and having problems    any help out there  side effects of painful legs……

Response:

I am a diabetis on thyroid meds and having problems    any help out there side effects of painful legs……

Go to your Dr.  Could be any number of causes.  And the more medical problems you have, the more difficult to diagnose.  Good luck!

Response:

Helen,    I have been on Synthroid for a good 6 years and at times my legs and chest just kill me with pains and cramps. The endro advised me that it was the medicine and changes in my system. At one point he was talking of placing me on Quinine to reduce the cramps but they went away.    You may wish to have your blood checked to see if you are in range and then adjust – it worked for me. Ask your endro.    Hope this helps. Terry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a diabetis on thyroid meds and having problems    any help out there  side effects of painful legs……

Response:

Agree with other posts that you’re likely toi be experiencing side effects of your meds as well as the adjustments your body must make.  Thyroid is a tricky little gland.  Ask your endo about Evening Primrose Oil and Neurontin.  Let us know what hjappens–we can learn from you.  Gene

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a diabetis on thyroid meds and having problems    any help out there side effects of painful legs……

Response:

I too had similar symptoms and my doc put me on Armour Thyroid which is a natural thyroid and not a synthetic.  All the symptoms stopped.  Now I worry about the source of the thyroid glandular.  Hope it doesn’t come from cows infected with mad cow disease or Foot and Mouth disease. Yuck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Helen,    I have been on Synthroid for a good 6 years and at times my legs and chest just kill me with pains and cramps. The endro advised me that it was the medicine and changes in my system. At one point he was talking of placing me on Quinine to reduce the cramps but they went away.    You may wish to have your blood checked to see if you are in range and then adjust – it worked for me. Ask your endro.    Hope this helps. Terry I am a diabetis on thyroid meds and having problems    any help out there  side effects of painful legs……

Response:

I have been on synthroid for aboutf fifteen years but have not experienced any of the symptomsyou talk about. Loreta If Life is such a bowl of cherries, why am I always in the pits.  Erma Bombeck

Response: