Question:

The latest research out of brigham young women’s research division and Harvard University is that there is a malfunction or damage to the hpa axis in the brain and the autonomic immune system… bye, Mary Dee

Response:

Hi floyd Aside from my DDD and other ailments, I was told at one time I have classic symptoms for fibromyalgia. Reading on this diagnosis, it seems realistic. My new doctor believes it is a made up diagnosis. Perhaps she means psychosomatic? I Anyone that can enlighten me on this issue? Is it really real?

Perhaps you could subscribe to alt.med.fibromyalgia and read all the posts there from sufferers of that damn problem.  -  Best wishes  Karen

Response:

I think any doctor that says Fibro doesn’t exist is merely argueing semantics. If the pain and fatigue the patient is feeling is real…then a real disease exists reguardless of what it is called.  Fibro may well prove to be just an abberant form of a well-established disease…but no less serious or deserving of treatment or sympathy. Many of the auto-immune diseases have crossover symptoms, and ironclad diagnoses are often difficult.  Many of these diseases take years to finally pinpoint for certain, and with others no clearcut diagnosis can be made…just an educated guess. The symptoms of Fibro are real to those that suffer from it no matter what name you give it.   Froggie

Response:

Hi Floyd:  Yes, yes, yes.  It is really real.  A blood test will not confirm it however.  Neither will any other test.  The tests are done for elimination process.  When all the tests that they can run come back negative the doctor then has the beginning of a diag. There are trigger points that can tell the doctor a lot.  Also muscle tightness and a few other things they look for in a physical run down. Your complaints are usually extreme pain and fatigue, along with some other complaints.  Tell the doctor all of your complaints no matter how minor or silly they may seem.  This will help him – her to get a clear picture. But you will not get too far with a doctor who doesn’t believe in the FMS to begin with.  You are going to have to shop around for another doctor that believes that FMS is really real. Good luck.  Be agressive.  It is your pain that is on the line.  The doctors ignorance is unforgiveable as FMS is well recognized by the medical profession today.  If HMO says it is real; you know it is really real.  

Response:

Hi Floyd:  If you’re the Floyd who just had a birthday I hope is was a good one.  Re FMS – some doctors believe in it, others don’t.  If only they could walk in our shoes a while. I’ve had FMS since 1983 and it’s caused alot of other problems for me too.  Don’t feel like you are a hypochondriac and if you’re doctor thinks you are one or doesn’t believe FMS exists, find another doctor.  

Response:

Aside from my DDD and other ailments, I was told at one time I have classic symptoms for fibromyalgia. Reading on this diagnosis, it seems realistic. My new doctor believes it is a made up diagnosis. Perhaps she means psychosomatic? I believe there are blood tests for this, however since she doesn’t believe the disease exist, she would not perform them. I had an HMO at the time and was not able to see another physician. Anyone that can enlighten me on this issue? Is it really real?

It has been explained to me that there is a primary FM and a secondary FM.  I have secondary arising out of DDD and OA. http://www.sover.net/~devstar/  Dr. Devin has FM and writes extensively as well as practices – if you can afford her book, we call it the Blue Bible.  No, there aren’t any tests except the tender points and related disorders (you’ll find them by poking around on her site).   Alt. med. fibromyalgia is a very active group.  Might want to subscribe and lurk for awhile. Carone —

Response:

There is a test….it just received FDA approval and will be out this year. Problem: the test may come up negative for some who actually have fm.  The test will also show the extent of the disease. They have also done away with the primary and secondary fm diagnosis…go lurk at alt fm for a while.  If you don’t get the info you need I would be happy to send you a million links….chuckle chuckle. good luck to you:) Mary Dee

Response:

Aside from my DDD and other ailments, I was told at one time I have classic symptoms for fibromyalgia. Reading on this diagnosis, it seems realistic. My new doctor believes it is a made up diagnosis. Perhaps she means psychosomatic? I believe there are blood tests for this, however since she doesn’t believe the disease exist, she would not perform them. I had an HMO at the time and was not able to see another physician. Anyone that can enlighten me on this issue? Is it really real?

Here’s some links on APA anti-polymer antibodies (autoimmune response) http://www.autoimmune.com/APASciSumIntro.html http://www.autoimmune.com/NewsRel10Feb99.html I think the TV show quoted 6 million? in US as having this condition, lot more than people who have Lupus but some have both and/or arthritis or RA.  Maybe these tests will be able to sort out which have primary and which have secondary fibromyalgia and/or are being misdiagnosed. http://www.wdn.com/mirkin (search on chronic fatigue and/or fibromyalgia) Either way you cut it, seems like FM, at its purest, is pain + poor sleep. I wonder how many on this NG would fit that criteria?   Other symptoms IMO either arise out of being chronically sleep deprived, nutritional problems, side effects of pain medications, stress, aging aches and pains, post-traumatic stress, chronic pain due to accidents, poor posture, spinal deformities, depression and a lot of other factors. What is interesting is that "polymer" is a synthetic.   So I wonder if this syndrome arises out of our bodies being overloaded with synthetics (in our diets, clothing, medications, environment..home and work) in certain people predisposed and/or stressed.  And if industrialization is a major contributory factor in this condition (ie. systemic poisoning)?  Certainly it existed before the 1900’s but it was fibrositis and some info seems to indicate that fibrositis was an "inflammatory" condition whereas FM is not. If your doctor is taking each symptom alone and ruling out possibilities (tests), he/she is doing the responsible thing…making sure there aren’t some hidden causes (that are treatable).  If your doctor is dismissing your problems "out-of-hand", perhaps it is time for a change. I don’t even know what good it does to get diagnosed with this since the treatments are symptomatic anyways. I even question the reliability of the "tender point system" of diagnosing.  I have not seen any double/triple blind tests to see if the majority of the population (especially adults and older), don’t have tender points to some degree, some times. The absolute worst part of this diagnosis is that it gives some doctors "free reign" to dismiss any new symptoms as being due to FM.  Happened to me and I had at least 4 totally unrelated problems, 2 very serious.  Tests pending on others. BTW carbon monoxide poisoning can mimic FM subclinical infections also (or can exacerbate the symptoms) low thyroid also (or can exacerbate the symptoms) (see Dr. Mirkin’s list) Perhaps your best bet is to keep working with your doctor, if this doctor is trying to sort out the various symptoms with you. Just an FMers (probably unpopular) opinion. Best wishes Jean

Response:

Aside from my DDD and other ailments, I was told at one time I have classic symptoms for fibromyalgia. Reading on this diagnosis, it seems realistic. My new doctor believes it is a made up diagnosis. Perhaps she means psychosomatic? I believe there are blood tests for this, however since she doesn’t believe the disease exist, she would not perform them. I had an HMO at the time and was not able to see another physician. Anyone that can enlighten me on this issue? Is it really real?

Response:

It is real but there are no blood tests http://www.arthritis.co.za/ click on the Arthritis Index page  then the diseases index page and it is listed there.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aside from my DDD and other ailments, I was told at one time I have classic symptoms for fibromyalgia. Reading on this diagnosis, it seems realistic. My new doctor believes it is a made up diagnosis. Perhaps she means psychosomatic? I believe there are blood tests for this, however since she doesn’t believe the disease exist, she would not perform them. I had an HMO at the time and was not able to see another physician. Anyone that can enlighten me on this issue? Is it really real?

Response:

Here is another one: http://www.docaj.com/doc006.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is real but there are no blood tests http://www.arthritis.co.za/ click on the Arthritis Index page  then the diseases index page and it is listed there. Aside from my DDD and other ailments, I was told at one time I have classic symptoms for fibromyalgia. Reading on this diagnosis, it seems realistic. My new doctor believes it is a made up diagnosis. Perhaps she means psychosomatic? I believe there are blood tests for this, however since she doesn’t believe the disease exist, she would not perform them. I had an HMO at the time and was not able to see another physician. Anyone that can enlighten me on this issue? Is it really real?

Response:

It is very real and a real pain (pun intended) to live with.  Here’s a site to start out with with a lot of useful information…there are blood tests to rule out other things that have the same symptoms, it is a diagnosis of exclusion. You definitely need to find another doc.<A HREF="http://www.sover.net/~devstar/"Fibromyalgia, and, Chronic Myofascial Pain Synd

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I was just wondering what the symptoms of thyroyd trouble are?? I know they are v similar to the PA symptoms but is there any way of telling the difference between them?? Thanks Johnny

it is wise to get a complete physical with a standard blood profile inclusive of t3 t4 and free thyroxin levels this is a start to determine if thyroid is ok and then can be followed up with a radioactive iodine uptake scan if needed. Anxiety can be a symptom of many conditions including virus so a full physical exam is prudent-and one is needed on an ongoing basis annually. LM

Response:

Hi all,

I was just wondering what the symptoms of thyroyd trouble are?? I know they are v similar to the PA symptoms but is there any way of telling the difference between them?? Thanks

Hi, There are many symptoms that both disorders share, such as; rapid heart rate, sweating, diarrhea, weight loss, nervousness, irritability, insomnia, tremors,etc. The only way to diagnosis a thyroid problem is a physical exam by a MD and a simple blood test. Take care. Jackie

Response:

Hi all, I was just wondering what the symptoms of thyroyd trouble are?? I know they are v similar to the PA symptoms but is there any way of telling the difference between them?? Thanks Johnny

Response:

Hi Johnny- The only way to tell the differance between the symptoms of thyroid and panic, is to have the good ole thyroid tested out to see how it is functioning.  I would strongly encourage anyone to have all the other posibilities ruled out, before simply assuming its panic. Jess I am an artist, therefore my work is inferior.

Response:

Question:

MARIE10502 wrote:

What is EPO? Gina Marie

See the subject header? (-; –Pat Kight kig…@peak.org

Response:

Robert Ames wrote:

I have read no research reports of estrogen-like effects of EPO.  Can Homemaker J, or whoever is insisting it is estrogenic, cite any proof of this assertion?

From Prescription for Nutritional Healing by Balch & Balch: "Those suffering from breast cancer that is estrogen related should avoid or limit their intake of primrose oil.  Black current oil is a good substitute." I also recall Victoria saying that she found in her research that EPO had estrogenic like properties, but I couldn’t say if she was looking at this source above or something else. Cool Runnings, HomemakerJ

Response:

What is EPO? Gina Marie

Response:

On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:54:24 -0800, Pat Kight <kig…@ucs.orst.edu

wrote:

See the subject header? (-; –Pat Kight kig…@peak.org

Still easy to miss. It took me days to understand what asm stood for when I first came to the ng and that was in every heading as well. : ) Kathryn droz…@home.com

Response:

On 31 Dec 1999 00:12:21 GMT, marie10…@aol.com (MARIE10502) wrote:

What is EPO? Gina Marie

Evening Primrose Oil. Kathryn

Response:

What is EPO? Gina Marie See the subject header? (-; –Pat Kight

duh.  don’t I feel stupid.  <g

 Sorry.  I’m in menofog these days

Gina Marie

Response:

On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 23:50:11 -0600, HomemakerJ <ho…@interaccess.com

wrote:

From Prescription for Nutritional Healing by Balch & Balch: "Those suffering from breast cancer that is estrogen related should avoid or limit their intake of primrose oil.  Black current oil is a good substitute."

Interesting.  GLA is the active ingredient in both EPO and black currant oil, which would indicate that the authors believe EPO has an additional ingredient that is estrogenic.  The USDA database at http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/plants.html lists all ingredients of both evening primrose and black currant.  You can click on the ingredient to see its medicinal activity.   None of the ingredients of evening primrose are listed as being estrogenic, but a couple, including quercetin, are anti-estrogenic. Sometimes an anti-estrogen may itself have estrogenic activity, but since only the oil of the plant is used, I think it is very unlikely that quercetin is a factor. So unless Balch and Balch are able to name the estrogenic ingredient, or at least cite a study showing estrogenicity, I would tend to dismiss this "information" as unfounded rumor.  There are no papers reported in the Medline database showing that evening primrose (Oenothera biennis L.) has estrogenic activity.

Response:

On Fri, 31 Dec 1999 12:54:46 -0500, Robert Ames <am…@bellsouth.net

wrote:

 There are no papers reported in the Medline database showing that evening primrose (Oenothera biennis L.) has estrogenic activity.

Try searching under omega-polyunsaturated fatty acids and free estrogen. This should bring up:

Carcinogenesis 1999 Dec;20(12):2209-2218 Dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids and cancers of the breast and colorectum: emerging evidence for their role as risk modifiers. Bartsch H, Nair J, Owen RW

I am not certain if raising levels of free estrogen can be called "estrogenic activity"or not, but if the result is cell proliferation who cares about the semantics. The webpage you posted yesterday states EPO is an Omega-6 PUFA. It is the omega-3 PUFAs that seem to be the good fats as far as cancer prevention goes. Kathryn droz…@home.com

Response:

On Fri, 31 Dec 1999 20:45:48 GMT, droz…@home.com wrote:

I am not certain if raising levels of free estrogen can be called "estrogenic activity"or not, but if the result is cell proliferation who cares about the semantics. The webpage you posted yesterday states EPO is an Omega-6 PUFA. It is the omega-3 PUFAs that seem to be the good fats as far as cancer prevention goes.

My understanding is that it is not right to lump all omega-6 fatty acids together.  The main n-6 fatty acid in the diet in linoleic acid, found in corn oil for example.  Evening primrose oil by contrast contains gamma linoleic acid (GLA).  They act as precursors for different chemicals. In pregnant women, diets with a high n-6 to n-3 ratio resulted in higher free estrogen.  The mechanism seems to be this: high n-6/n-3 caused increased production of insulin.  Higher insulin results in lowers sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).  Lower SHBG results in higher free estrogen.  Linoleic acid, a certain amount of which is necessary for normal health, can also induce growth of cells.  Other research has found that n-6 to n-3 ratio of fatty acids can alter estrogen and progesterone effects in pregnant women.  So it looks like more attention should be paid to the type of oils and fats consumed during pregnancy. Since the cause of the higher free estrogen appears to be higher insulin levels and thus lower SHBG, this is the factor that should be considered in menopausal women.  I would think that type 2 diabetes would result in a similar rise in free estrogen. The amount of GLA consumed in evening primrose oil (EPO) is not very significant as a source of omega-6 fatty acid. However, GLA is only about 6 per cent of EPO.  I’ve forgotten what the rest of it is, but if the remainder is also omega-6, then perhaps the total package may add up to a significant source of omega-6.  In this case, a different source of GLA would be indicated.

Response:

Robert Ames <am…@bellsouth.net

wrote in message

news:q8fu6soi77cifq5igjsfmi8brh565pko22@4ax.com…

On Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:55:43 -0500, "Jane W." <jgwea…@erols.com wrote: Robert, I’m a bit confused by your post.  Do you see any correlations between higher insulin, thus higher levels of free-estrogen, and some of

the

symptoms reported (like hair growth, or other things that clearly show up with perimenopausal symptoms for some women)?  Is it affecting the

balance

between estrogens and androgens in the female body?  I’ve been trying to piece the mosaic together, and I lack the big picture of a healthcare professional.  Thanks! I’m not a health care professional.

Well, you certainly keep up with modern biochemistry more than I do!  Due to school commitments, the bulk of my reading has been focused elsewhere. Maybe I’ll get back to my biology roots after I finish my dissertation!

Sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) is a lipoprotein in the blood that binds both estrogen and testosterone.  If you have lower SHBG due to higher insulin levels, then your free estrogen and free testosterone levels will likely rise. Higher testosterone could conceivably produce virilizing symptoms such as inappropriate hair growth.

I’ve started examining patterns that most of my perimenopausal acquaintances have (that I share) that point to insulin-related symptoms or thyroid-related symptoms, where all modern test results are normal.  This jumped out as one of the myriad factors that may contribute to such symptoms without an underlying disease.

The point I’m trying to make is that it is unrealistic to think that evening primrose oil is much of a factor in hormone changes, when everything said about EPO in this regard can also be said about other sources of omega-6 fatty acids, such as corn oil, that are usually consumed in far larger quantities.

I agree.  I haven’t seen supporting evidence of EPO’s hormonal effects.

Flax oil contains a large amount of omega-6 as well as significant amounts of omega-3, which is why some people prefer fish oils, which contain omega-3 plus some saturated fat, but not much omega-6. However linoleic acid, the main omega-6 fatty acid, is one of the three essential fatty acids (i.e. we can not synthesize it), so we all need some in our diet.  The problems reported arise when the proportion of omega-6 to omega-3 is too high.

I try to eat the foods (fish, olive oil, etc.) that will provide this rather than supplementing, to the extent possible.  Every few months it seems there is a new "spotlight natural" that is now considered the latest magic bullet, and EPO is only the latest.  Reminds me of the changes in recommended dietary allowances over the years in the U.S.  We are suffering from lack of exercise in the U.S., and so they recommend a lowfat diet, which doesn’t have the same effect as adequate exercise.  Meanwhile, back in Europe, they still eat what Americans ate in the 1950s and they are healthier.  I wonder if the French, for example, are so caught up in the magic vitamin/herb fad? It reminds me of the 1960s and 1970s, when people took hallucinogens to "free their minds."  Now they are freeing their bodies of all symptoms of maturing. –Jane

Response:

Robert Ames <am…@bellsouth.net

wrote in message

news:hfqr6sgtp32j5k284mft6qgvmm4s9tepr8@4ax.com…

On Fri, 31 Dec 1999 20:45:48 GMT, droz…@home.com wrote:

<snip

Since the cause of the higher free estrogen appears to be higher insulin levels and thus lower SHBG, this is the factor that should be considered in menopausal women.  I would think that type 2 diabetes would result in a similar rise in free estrogen.

Robert, I’m a bit confused by your post.  Do you see any correlations between higher insulin, thus higher levels of free-estrogen, and some of the symptoms reported (like hair growth, or other things that clearly show up with perimenopausal symptoms for some women)?  Is it affecting the balance between estrogens and androgens in the female body?  I’ve been trying to piece the mosaic together, and I lack the big picture of a healthcare professional.  Thanks!

Response:

On Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:55:43 -0500, "Jane W." <jgwea…@erols.com

wrote:

Robert, I’m a bit confused by your post.  Do you see any correlations between higher insulin, thus higher levels of free-estrogen, and some of the symptoms reported (like hair growth, or other things that clearly show up with perimenopausal symptoms for some women)?  Is it affecting the balance between estrogens and androgens in the female body?  I’ve been trying to piece the mosaic together, and I lack the big picture of a healthcare professional.  Thanks!

I’m not a health care professional.  Sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) is a lipoprotein in the blood that binds both estrogen and testosterone.  If you have lower SHBG due to higher insulin levels, then your free estrogen and free testosterone levels will likely rise. Higher testosterone could conceivably produce virilizing symptoms such as inappropriate hair growth. The point I’m trying to make is that it is unrealistic to think that evening primrose oil is much of a factor in hormone changes, when everything said about EPO in this regard can also be said about other sources of omega-6 fatty acids, such as corn oil, that are usually consumed in far larger quantities. Flax oil contains a large amount of omega-6 as well as significant amounts of omega-3, which is why some people prefer fish oils, which contain omega-3 plus some saturated fat, but not much omega-6. However linoleic acid, the main omega-6 fatty acid, is one of the three essential fatty acids (i.e. we can not synthesize it), so we all need some in our diet.  The problems reported arise when the proportion of omega-6 to omega-3 is too high.

Response:

On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:31:18 -0500, Robert Ames <am…@bellsouth.net

wrote:

I have read no research reports of estrogen-like effects of EPO.  Can Homemaker J, or whoever is insisting it is estrogenic, cite any proof of this assertion?

The suggestion was first made on asm by a women who had a hysterectomy/oomphectomy due to cancer and was told by her doctor not to use EPO because it was estrogenic. EPO is suggested in the popular media as something that will "support the adrenals", or promote our own hormone production, and so "indirectly" could be considered to have hormone like effects don’t you think? Used this way we could say eating a high fat diet is estrogenic too, which does seem to be the case.

Research reports on the efficacy of EPO against mastalgia are diverse. A study from Hong Kong University published July 1999 reports a somewhat unbelievable 97% response rate for mastalgia sufferers.  A statistically stronger Australian study from 1994 reported a 26% response rate, versus a 67% response rate for patients who used danazol.  A University of Wales study of over 400 women, reported in 1992, also named danazol as most effective medication, with EPO and bromocryptine having equal efficacy.  However, EPO had the fewest side effects.

Reading these studies, EPO worked better for cyclical mastalgia over non cyclical mastalgia. This to me supports the hormone-like effect of EPO on the breast. Did you see the study suggesting  investigating medroxyprogesterone acetate as a primary therapy for cyclical breast pain? What say asm bleeders, did Provera help breast pain? Kathryn droz…@home.com

Response:

In article <3862e367@grissom

, Kay Spence <kspe…@powerup.com.au wrote: …This is my only outlay, apart from spending a bundle of cash on pads and tampons which are considered luxury items and have a higher tax rate.

*splork* Luxury items, my ass. If *this* isn’t a sign that women should be running the world, I don’t know what is! –Pat Kight joking, but only just … kig…@peak.org

Response:

On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:43:32 -0800, Frederica <missmerrivaleNOmiS…@yahoo.com.invalid

wrote: In the US, it comes in capsules that you can buy at any health food store.  It’s like Vitamin E, in that it’s an oil.  It’s a little on the spendy side.  Kay is Australian, I believe?  How much does it run you there? It emphatically does not work for mastalgia, but that’s certainly not the only feature of peri.

A useful resource for evening primrose oil is <http://www.efamol.com/physician_resources/index.html

. Efamol.com is

a commercial site connected to DF Horrobin, a research pioneer in this area with 430 Medline-reported publications. It seems that the quality and grade of the product may sometimes make a difference.  The better grades are cold-pressed.  The best deal for gamma linoleic acid (GLA) is usually borage seed oil (usually not cold-pressed). I have read no research reports of estrogen-like effects of EPO.  Can Homemaker J, or whoever is insisting it is estrogenic, cite any proof of this assertion? Research reports on the efficacy of EPO against mastalgia are diverse. A study from Hong Kong University published July 1999 reports a somewhat unbelievable 97% response rate for mastalgia sufferers.  A statistically stronger Australian study from 1994 reported a 26% response rate, versus a 67% response rate for patients who used danazol.  A University of Wales study of over 400 women, reported in 1992, also named danazol as most effective medication, with EPO and bromocryptine having equal efficacy.  However, EPO had the fewest side effects.

Response:

Kay Oded

I would just like to sing the praises of EPO – I have been on it for about two

years now, sometimes I take a lot, sometimes a little – depends on the condition of my face – how many breakthrough unsightly blotches.   (remainder snipped as Kay’s leaving for a party … Kay, how do you "take" the evening primrose oil? Liquid? Pills? Cream? And how much do you use? susan, (checking her vanity mirror)

Response:

Kay, how do you "take" the evening primrose oil? Liquid? Pills? Cream? And how much do you use? susan, (checking her vanity mirror)

In the US, it comes in capsules that you can buy at any health food store.  It’s like Vitamin E, in that it’s an oil.  It’s a little on the spendy side.  Kay is Australian, I believe?  How much does it run you there? It emphatically does not work for mastalgia, but that’s certainly not the only feature of peri. Frederica * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Schupra <schu…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:19991223033856.22118.00001339@ng-fw1.aol.com…

Kay, how do you "take" the evening primrose oil? Liquid? Pills? Cream? And

how

much do you use? susan, (checking her vanity mirror)

I take 1000 mg Evening Primrose Oil Capsules which have 100mg (10%) gamma-Linolenic Acid (GLA) – morning and night in equal quantities.  When I seem to have things under control 2 – 3 in the morning, same at night, when things out of control – I increase to 4 – 5 until I get the blotches to remarkably reduce in size.  i.e. as soon as a big red unsightly blotch appears – approximately 10 days before menstruation, I up the ante, once my flow has finished, I lessen the dosage again. I have found no web sites that suggest this is too much – so if any one can point me to one I would be grateful.  A friend suggested that this much may lead to fatty lumps in the breast.  I brought this up the last time I had an "OMIGOD THAT SMARTS" scan but was told there was no sign of any and as I had been on this regime for over 12 months I probably needn’t worry.  I continue to monitor, however. Frederica said:

It’s a little on the spendy side.  Kay is Australian, I believe?  How much does it run you there?

Yes I am Australian – I buy my EPO from a chemist/pharmacy and they cost $10 Australian for 120 capsules (produced in New Zealand) that would be around $6.40 US at current rates – at my worst I would use two containers a month, at my best probably one and a half.  This is my only outlay, apart from spending a bundle of cash on pads and tampons which are considered luxury items and have a higher tax rate.  Roll on 1st July 2000 when our new taxation system comes in and tax reduces down to 10% and they come down in price.  Supposedly, in Australia, natural health products/alternative potions and pills are extremely expensive compared to the rest of the world, so I would be interested to hear how this EPO price compares. Approximately 14 hours to Christmas Day in Brisbane Australia – and I am having my two sisters, their families and my 80 year old Mum and, my sister’s father in law and a friend of my mother’s – 11 in total – so I really must clean the house and start getting tables set up etc.  I wish you all a very Merry Christmas – and I’ll probably be back to read the posts around 27th. Cheers Kay (poor from all this Christmas spending and having to buy EPO capsules – but looking remarkably well and clear skinned at the moment, or so I was told by a few friends at last night’s Christmas party – it was worth going after all.)

Response:

Kay Spence wrote in message <3861d1c6@grissom

… My older sister suffers from terrible hot flushes (flashes) and night sweats – and so did my mother, so sometimes I wonder if the EPO I am taking for my facial spots is also counteracting the other symptoms of menopause. I can’t say, and to do a trial and get off the EPO to see if the flushes come is too cruel a methodology, I think I’ll keep the healthy, clear skin look.

  Factoids from  the shabby file on menopause "knowledge" alleges that up to 65% of women have few to no problems with menopause. So being symptomless at menopause is the norm, not the excepttion and may not need expensive supplements to achieve the same results. Only by listening to the advertising does one get the impression that menopasue is a universal disaster waiting to happen to every middle-aged woman. But statistics do not bear this out.   Plus do we really know that hot flashes should be suppressed as a goal of drugging in one form or another, or should comfort measures be taken instead and let the body flush out what it needs to flush out at this time? J Oops, I think that’s my lift.  Catch your overnight posts tomorrow. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Kay — kspe…@powerup.com.au

Response:

Sorry about this – I’m a bit bored as I’m waiting to be picked up to go out to a Christmas Do – so that’s why so many posts from me. I would just like to sing the praises of EPO – I have been on it for about two years now, sometimes I take a lot, sometimes a little – depends on the condition of my face – how many breakthrough unsightly blotches.  But apart from these pimples?, which I seem to have under control, a few black hairs sprouting from the chin line which are easy to pluck, variable menstrual flow, and thinning hair, which seems to have slackened off a bit lately – maybe because it’s warmer?  (like leaves, it was falling by the handful in Autumn, tapering a bit in winter, and slackening off even more in Summer – perhaps I have deciduous hair) I really don’t have any other problems. My older sister suffers from terrible hot flushes (flashes) and night sweats – and so did my mother, so sometimes I wonder if the EPO I am taking for my facial spots is also counteracting the other symptoms of menopause. I can’t say, and to do a trial and get off the EPO to see if the flushes come is too cruel a methodology, I think I’ll keep the healthy, clear skin look. Oops, I think that’s my lift.  Catch your overnight posts tomorrow. Kay — kspe…@powerup.com.au

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Question:

hi-      it seems to me that there are plenty of people who suffer from bulimia that are overweight.  there are also people who have anorexic behavior that are overweight.  If you look back through old posts, i think adagio posted a lot of good messages regarding this topic.                      -starfisher

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I feel like a failure not only as a dieter but also as a bullemic.  I have always had body image problems.  (I went on my first diet when I was in the second grade even though I wasn’t fat)  In the last 2 years I have gained 40 lbs. Partly, I think because of all the Pych.drugs aI have been taking.  The one that REALLY caused weight gain was pxil.  I am not taking that any more and have not purged in 6 weeks now.  I spend 3 weeks in a day hospital last month but am really tempted to go back to my old behavior.  I am tkaing so many drugs, I am afraid they are causeing me to gian weight, even thaough I have trhown away my scale.  I do know that I have gone fm a size 10 to a 16 over the past 2 years and am TERRIFIED of getting bigger.  I am taking Ritalin, Wellbutrin,Zoloft,Ambien, Neurontin and Klonapin.  I was diagnosed with Bullemia, depression, anxiety, bi-polar2 and ADD (which I have known about for 10 years. Is there anyone else out there that is this much overweight but was diagnosed as Bullmic? Or can anyone shed some light on the med problem. Before you buy.

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Is there anyone else out there that is this much overweight but was diagnosed as Bullmic? Or can anyone shed some light on the med problem.

  Spoiler for size mentions, no specific weights… * * * * * * * * ( *  *   Hey, well, I’m not a size 16,but I am a chubby bulimic–I’m into a size 10 now. I never did succeed in becoming really skinny–at my lowest I was a size 6 –and since I’ve been in revovery I’ve gained about 20 pounds–mind you, I was NOT underweight to begin with. So yeah,  felt like a failure-I mean, here I was taking really extreme measures to be thin, and I just *couldn’t* get it right. And people tend to assume that if you don’t look emaciated, you ain’t sick–so i had to deal with some people (friends/fam) not really believeing I was sick–I wasn’t skinny so I must be exaggerating, or making it up, or dramatizing. ..that sort of thing. It was very Frustrating and hurtful. I mean, I looked ok, but I was going crazy, and feeling really unwell, but everyone was telling me that because I looked normal there was nothing wrong with me. ACk!    As for the meds–can you talk to your psych. about cutting some of them out? I know that Zoloft is sometimes used alone to treat ADD since it has a slight stimulating effect and improves concentration, etc.–so maybe you could cut down on the Ritalin (with your doctor’s ok, of course).And there are a lot of non-drug ways to deal with ADD–training your attention, meditating, having a "coach" remind you of stuff, keeping a planner, etc. I have ADD too, and these have all been helpful.   I’ve been diagnosed with bulimia, ADD, major depression, recurrant, and it appears that I have a possible personality disorder (borderline), so I know all about multiple diagnosis. But, I think it is kind of crazy that you are on so many meds. Can’t they streamline your routine a little bit– bipolar HAS to be treated with meds, but maybe some of your other problems could be tackled in alternate ways–like behavioral therapy, cognitive reframing, etc.  Just a thought.  –bec. Before you buy.

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hi-     it seems to me that there are plenty of people who suffer from bulimia that are overweight.  there are also people who have anorexic behavior that are overweight.  If you look back through old posts, i think adagio posted a lot of good messages regarding this topic.                     -starfisher

Thanks… I was about to post about this.  I was anorexic/bulimic for several years (17 years), and nobody took me seriously because I was still overweight.   I would go to doctors and support groups asking for help with eating disorders, and all the doctors did was put me on a "diet" assuming that my problem was overeating, not starvation.  All the "support group"  people did was look at me incredulously. Yes, I can certainly relate to being a heavy person in a "thin person"’s disorder. It turns out I had other problems keeping me heavier, problems which were not even diagnosed until a few years ago, for entirely different reasons. I was missing periods, coincidentally at the same time as I first got together with my husband, so I thought I was pregnant, but 3 negative tests kinda gave the doctor the idea to test my thyroid. Who *knows* how long I’d had this problem.  But when I read up on the symptoms of thyroid disorder, many of them I have had for *years* like the naturally dry skin. Also several threads on this group have revealed that there is a correlation between eating disorders and thyroid disorder, although I am not sure which comes first. Adagio — Never criticize someone until you have walked a mile in his shoes.  That way, when you criticize him, you will be a mile away from him, and you will have his shoes.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel like a failure not only as a dieter but also as a bullemic.  I have always had body image problems.  (I went on my first diet when I was in the second grade even though I wasn’t fat)  In the last 2 years I have gained 40 lbs. Partly, I think because of all the Pych.drugs aI have been taking.  The one that REALLY caused weight gain was pxil.  I am not taking that any more and have not purged in 6 weeks now.  I spend 3 weeks in a day hospital last month but am really tempted to go back to my old behavior.  I am tkaing so many drugs, I am afraid they are causeing me to gian weight, even thaough I have trhown away my scale.  I do know that I have gone fm a size 10 to a 16 over the past 2 years and am TERRIFIED of getting bigger.  I am taking Ritalin, Wellbutrin,Zoloft,Ambien, Neurontin and Klonapin.

I do not claim to be an expert on anything,but have done more than my fair share of  reading on meds for bipolar since being diagnosed in the spring.  I am curious why you are taking two anti depressants.  Two seems like a lot on anyone but as someone having bipolar I know that Paxil and Zoloft have both sent me into a manic phase, and I can feel that Wellbutrin is in the process of doing the same.  :-)I know someone who takes Wellbutrin simply for ADD and considers it a godsend.  Ive heard Zoloft can do the same thing.  Throwing ritalin into the mix seems overdone.  Of course I dont know you and I do know that everyones brain is different.  None of these meds list weight gain as a side effect, though the combo of so many chemicals might do it. I was diagnosed with Bullemia, depression, anxiety, bi-polar2 and ADD (which I have known about for 10 years. Is there anyone else out there that is this much overweight but was diagnosed as Bullmic?

Yes, I was when diagnosed.  Ironically the firt doctor I went to pretty much dismissed it as nothing and refused to refer me to a therapist. Grrr. Soon after the HMO randomly changed me to another doctor who is so much more compassionate and believing that you dont have to be thin to have a problem eating enough food and keeping it all down. Or can anyone shed some light on the med problem.

I think the best thing to do is arm yourself with knowledge.  With bipolar disorder you gotta be willing to be in it for the long haul, because it doesnt go away.  If you havent already find out as much as you can the disorder and various treatment options available today. New things have been approved by the FDA earlier this week or late last week.  Ask your pdoc why you  are on so many drugs, and what each of this is "fixing" fot you  and address your concerns about weight.  If they know what concerns you have my guess is that they will be willing to accomidate them.  My doc knows all about my past food issues and current inability to accept gaining weight so he didn’t prescribe depakote (which will make you gain 40,50,60+ pounds over time) because he knew I simply wouldnt take it, as that weight gain would send me into a relapse. Take care of yourself! ~Astraeat — What made me think I could start clean slated? The hardest to learn was the least complicated… ~The Indigo Girls Before you buy.

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hi.  it sounds to me like you’ve been diagnosed with about as many problems as i have!! regarding the meds issue…i have been seeing the same doctor for about 9 years now, and i never questioned the meds she was giving me.  however, now that i talk to my therapist about it, it seems rational to go to a specialist regarding the combination of drugs i am taking.  (e.g. of concern is my prozac…not indicated for bulimics).  in light of my bulimia it might be better for me to take a different combination of drugs (or less…i hope!) so that there isn’t any permanent damage being done to my organs (e.g. liver).  if you feel like you are on the wrong medications for you (i.e. due to weight gain), and if the amount of pills you are taking is of concern, i strongly reccommend you get a second opinion!! hope this is of some help *hugs* -C

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you are not the only overweight bulimic… i am also in a size 16 and bulimic.  the disease is not about weight or size, it’s about your emotional state.  bulimia doesn’t make you thin (my parents had a hard time with this) becca – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel like a failure not only as a dieter but also as a bullemic.  I have always had body image problems.  (I went on my first diet when I was in the second grade even though I wasn’t fat)  In the last 2 years I have gained 40 lbs. Partly, I think because of all the Pych.drugs aI have been taking.  The one that REALLY caused weight gain was pxil.  I am not taking that any more and have not purged in 6 weeks now.  I spend 3 weeks in a day hospital last month but am really tempted to go back to my old behavior.  I am tkaing so many drugs, I am afraid they are causeing me to gian weight, even thaough I have trhown away my scale.  I do know that I have gone fm a size 10 to a 16 over the past 2 years and am TERRIFIED of getting bigger.  I am taking Ritalin, Wellbutrin,Zoloft,Ambien, Neurontin and Klonapin.  I was diagnosed with Bullemia, depression, anxiety, bi-polar2 and ADD (which I have known about for 10 years. Is there anyone else out there that is this much overweight but was diagnosed as Bullmic? Or can anyone shed some light on the med problem. Before you buy.

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HI there. What I don’t understand is how a medication can make you gain weight. I mean, one would suspect that the only way to gain weight is by consuming more calories that you expend.

There are also many biological reasons.  Weight gain, and/or lack of weight loss even while in the throes of anorexic and bulimic behavior for months on end showed it for me.  The thyroid gland, when not functioning properly, can bring one’s metabolism to a screeching halt. So, if natural biological malfunctions can do this, then it’s not so hard to believe that putting certain chemicals into your body can contribute to that as well.   The body is a weird and wonderful and baffling machine.  I messed with that machine for far too long, and now am in recovery to try and undo some of the crap that I did to it. Adagio — Never criticize someone until you have walked a mile in his shoes.  That way, when you criticize him, you will be a mile away from him, and you will have his shoes.

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HI there. What I don’t understand is how a medication can make you gain weight. I mean, one would suspect that the only way to gain weight is by consuming more calories that you expend. However, when I was on risperidone I gained weight. Maybe it was just water gain. But to an anorexic, gain is gain. Is there anyone out there who can explain this? I know that Lithium causes weight gain. But is it the medication or that it just increases your appetite. Curious Mouse — Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums Talkway – http://www.talkway.com – Talk more ways (sm)

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Hi,   I am bulimic, and now am slightly underweight. However, when I first began bulimia, my weight fluctuated dramatically…at one point I was 30 pounds over. Bulimia will not always make someone thin; neither will anorexia, despite the emaciated stereotype. An eating disorder royally screws your metabolism, making it slow down or speed up or attempt to do both and switch back and forth between the two. If this option is open to you, I think you should find a therapist who is experienced in eating disorders.   Good luck, take care of yourself,   blot — I’m not tense — just terribly, terribly alert. Spamstop address: ‘zianet’ tastes better then ’spam’

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HI there. What I don’t understand is how a medication can make you gain weight. I mean, one would suspect that the only way to gain weight is by consuming more calories that you expend. However, when I was on risperidone I gained weight. Maybe it was just water gain. But to an anorexic, gain is gain. Is there anyone out there who can explain this? I know that Lithium causes weight gain. But is it the medication or that it just increases your appetite.

some medications increase appetite. besides caloric increase – you must consider the basal metabolic rate. some medications slow down the functions of the central nervous system which in turn slows down the bmr.

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hey, jill. I’m not very overweight at all, but I am large for someone so eating-disordered.  I range from 125 to 135 lbs, and I’m 5′7".  Most people picture an ed person to be emaciated, but I look like Marilyn Monroe.  I’ve been bulimic for six years, and I’m only seventeen.   The drugs obviously aren’t working.  I’ve been on every one that exists, and they usually make me worse because they make me gain weight.  You have to understand this, though: even if you were thinner, you would still be depressed.  I got down to 105, once, and I still hated myself.  YOu have to know how to love yourself at 100 and at 175lbs, even 300lbs, because personal worth is NOT a direct function of scale numbers or waist-size.  I know, it’s hard for me to believe, too. If you lost weight though, you would feel better— but only if it weren’t from throwing up or over-exercising.  If it were healthy, you’d gain self-respect, and love yourself more and be full of healthy pride.  I encourage you to try, but I should talk (I sound like such a hypocrite as I say all this!!!  I throw up 5 to 10 times a day.  I have done irreparable damage to my body, though). I would enjoy hearing from you, so write me if you need any support.  I feel like a failure, too. with love, Wednesday

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some medications increase appetite. besides caloric increase – you must

consider the basal metabolic rate. some medications slow down the functions of the central nervous system which in turn slows down the bmr. Zoloft is one of these meds!!!  I didn’t know it until last night when I had my psychiatrist appt. for medication evaluation.  He pointed out that part of my weight gain is because of Zoloft!

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Hi, this is a response to the message from the person who is on SO many meds! I know that certain psych meds can cause or be a factor in weight gain. And I agree with the others that you are on ALOT. I am an ER nurse so am very familiar with the drugs that have been prescribed to you. I’m wondering why so many antidepressants? Wellbutrin is noted for having an uplifting effect, and can help ADD, and Zoloft is another good SSRI antidepressant, but why multiple drups for the same thing. The Klonipin will have a sedating effect, often used for bipolar disorder. I might want to get another opinion if I were you. Sorry, don’t mean to sound like an armchair pseudo-doc. I am bulimic and I know it makes me crazy when I gain weight, so I sympathize with your feeings. I am on an antidepressant, have been on one kind or another for many years. I just accept that about myself, it’s really only neurotransmitters in the brain, so I don’t have any shame about it any more. I just started reading and writing here. I’m not recovering from bulimia. I’ve been doing it for 30 years. I wonder if that’s a record. I’m certainly not proud of it.  Lily * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

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I can totally understand how you feel–I was the same way!  I feel like I am not being bulimic enough (HA!  What a joke…!!)  if I am not losing weight…..when I let the ED take over…..so I know about failure……. I was also hospitalized fro bulimia, and they also discovered that I was BiPolar2 when I was in there 3 years ago, and when I got out….I gained weight, too.  I hated it then….and I hate it now!!!  I am three sixes larger than when I went into the hospital, and I am scared of getting any bigger, but I know that I won’t–because now that my body has adapted to eating….and keeping what I eat…..my metabolism has adjusted, and I am staying where I am weight-wise.  Sure….I would love to be the same sixe I was when I was in the hospital–but not at the price of my health!  No way!  It’s not worth it!  It has taken 3 years for me to learn new habits, and to try to see myself in a better way–and to not see myself by what size I wear, or what number I weigh—and I still stuggle with it occasionally, but I am getting better. Mentally, I am in a better place….I accept that I am not perfect, and I am more comfortable with who I am.  I don’t think that your weight gain has much to do with the meds that you are on…..though I am sure that it wouldn’t hurt to get another opinion…..it takes time for your body to reset itself and recover from the damage that you did to it.  Have you heard the phrase "It has to get worse before it gets better"???  My therapist said that if I keep that in mind when I am struggling with those issues, that I should remember that phrse, and know that it will get better.  If you’d like to talk, E-mail me. Hope you feel better……take care! hugs…….Karen

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I know that Lithium causes weight gain

actually if you follow the requirements of the amount of water you need to drink with lithium you don’t gain weight.  At least I didn’t, but I also drank about a minimum of 10 glasses of water a day. "~an angel’s face is tricky to wear constantly~"  "~just when you’ve escaped you have yourself to fear~"  Purple People Tori Amos "I got my rape hat on honey but I always could accessorize" ~~Tori Amos…Talula

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HI there. What I don’t understand is how a medication can make you gain weight. I mean, one would suspect that the only way to gain weight is by consuming more calories that you expend. However, when I was on risperidone I gained weight. Maybe it was just water gain. But to an anorexic, gain is gain. Is there anyone out there who can explain this? I know that Lithium causes weight gain. But is it the medication or that it just increases your appetite.

From what I have encounterd in my attempt to find useful meds is that the ones that increase your weight do so by making you hungry all the time.  It wasnt that when I got hungry it was more severe, but that I would get hungry for a full meal only a few hours after eating one.  As far as lithium goes, it has a lot to do with your sodium levels so I dont know if it can also make you retain water.  I never had that, just the rapid returns of hunger after eating. Curious Mouse — Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums Talkway – http://www.talkway.com – Talk more ways (sm)

– What made me think I could start clean slated? The hardest to learn was the least complicated… ~The Indigo Girls Before you buy.

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ummm, according to the BMI (body mass index) you are NOT  overweight at all, in fact you are on the smaller side of average. PLEASE love yourself as you are. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey, jill. I’m not very overweight at all, but I am large for someone so eating-disordered.  I range from 125 to 135 lbs, and I’m 5′7".  Most people picture an ed person to be emaciated, but I look like Marilyn Monroe.  I’ve been bulimic for six years, and I’m only seventeen. The drugs obviously aren’t working.  I’ve been on every one that exists, and they usually make me worse because they make me gain weight.  You have to understand this, though: even if you were thinner, you would still be depressed.  I got down to 105, once, and I still hated myself.  YOu have to know how to love yourself at 100 and at 175lbs, even 300lbs, because personal worth is NOT a direct function of scale numbers or waist-size.  I know, it’s hard for me to believe, too. If you lost weight though, you would feel better— but only if it weren’t from throwing up or over-exercising.  If it were healthy, you’d gain self-respect, and love yourself more and be full of healthy pride.  I encourage you to try, but I should talk (I sound like such a hypocrite as I say all this!!!  I throw up 5 to 10 times a day.  I have done irreparable damage to my body, though). I would enjoy hearing from you, so write me if you need any support.  I feel like a failure, too. with love, Wednesday

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hi take care! Winnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey, jill. I’m not very overweight at all, but I am large for someone so eating-disordered.  I range from 125 to 135 lbs, and I’m 5′7".  Most people picture an ed person to be emaciated, but I look like Marilyn Monroe. I’ve been bulimic for six years, and I’m only seventeen.   The drugs obviously aren’t working.  I’ve been on every one that exists, and they usually make me worse because they make me gain weight.  You have to understand this, though: even if you were thinner, you would still be depressed.  I got down to 105, once, and I still hated myself.  YOu have to know how to love yourself at 100 and at 175lbs, even 300lbs, because personal worth is NOT a direct function of scale numbers or waist-size.  I know, it’s hard for me to believe, too. If you lost weight though, you would feel better— but only if it weren’t from throwing up or over-exercising.  If it were healthy, you’d gain self-respect, and love yourself more and be full of healthy pride.  I encourage you to try, but I should talk (I sound like such a hypocrite as I say all this!!!  I throw up 5 to 10 times a day.  I have done irreparable damage to my body, though). I would enjoy hearing from you, so write me if you need any support.  I feel like a failure, too. with love, Wednesday

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 YOu have to know how to love yourself at 100 and at 175lbs, even 300lbs, because personal worth is NOT a direct function of scale numbers or waist-size.  I know, it’s hard for me to believe, too.

Wednesday (oh how I love that name…its so pretty)…this is SO true, but for many of us, and me included, my personal worth has been wrapped up in my weight/size for so long now. I wish I could live by different rules…that I could throw the scale out and rip the sizes out of my clothing…to go back to a day when I was "smaller". UGH Nikki "… lost in the darkness of my own circumstance, criticizing echoes leaving me awake in the night… the barrier and blockades that keep me safe and in control while I pretend that I am okay… "

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Question:

I have been losing too slowly….nothing for the past 3 weeks, no inches either. I’m not asking for miracles, just a pound a week.   I am staying at the induction level of carbs and counting everything very carefully.  Do I need to quit caffeine?  I really enjoy my morning coffee!   I read that it can trigger insulin release.  And…I have been using half and half instead of heavy cream.  Do I need to switch to heavy cream?   I would appreciate any advice on how to get moving again! Thanks,  Melanie

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What exactly are you eating and drinking? Exercise? Have you looked into a possible yeast problem? How is thyroid function? K in Cal

:I have been losing too slowly….nothing for the past 3 weeks, no inches :either. I’m not asking for miracles, just a pound a week.   I am staying at the :induction level of carbs and counting everything very carefully.  Do I need to :quit caffeine?  I really enjoy my morning coffee!   I read that it can trigger :insulin release.  And…I have been using half and half instead of heavy cream. : Do I need to switch to heavy cream? : :I would appreciate any advice on how to get moving again! : :Thanks,  Melanie

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Eating:  breakfast  every day eggs, sometimes bacon, small amount (weight 15 grams) cheese, coffee with half and half.  Lunch is tuna or chicken salad and sometimes a steamed zucchini or vegetables.  Dinner is fish or chicken, grilled, and salad with homemade vinegarette or veggies.  Snack is usually a few almonds or macadamia nuts, or strawberries or blueberries in cream.  My only other beverage is lots of water, I’m sure I’m over the recommended amount.  Last week I went for pizza one day with my kid, but only ate the top off it and salad.  I have a StairMaster and do that 2-5 times a week at varying levels and lengths of time, but last week I could not exercise.  I was already stuck, tho. I was treated for yeast last year, took medicine twice with a long break in between.  I am almost positive I am clear as I have no symptoms now. Thyroid function is low but I am also being treated for that.  It keeps improving. Shouldn’t I be at least losing some????? Thanks, Melanie

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:Eating:  breakfast  every day eggs, sometimes bacon, small amount (weight 15 :grams) cheese, coffee with half and half.  Lunch is tuna or chicken salad and :sometimes a steamed zucchini or vegetables.  Dinner is fish or chicken, :grilled, and salad with homemade vinegarette or veggies.  Snack is usually a :few almonds or macadamia nuts, or strawberries or blueberries in cream.  My nly other beverage is lots of water, I’m sure I’m over the recommended amount. : Last week I went for pizza one day with my kid, but only ate the top off it :and salad.  I have a StairMaster and do that 2-5 times a week at varying levels :and lengths of time, but last week I could not exercise.  I was already stuck, :tho. : :I was treated for yeast last year, took medicine twice with a long break in :between.  I am almost positive I am clear as I have no symptoms now. : :Thyroid function is low but I am also being treated for that.  It keeps :improving. : :Shouldn’t I be at least losing some????? : :Thanks, Melanie Sure you should. We all should.  Sometimes though we don’t lose because we aren’t eating what I our body wants us to in order for us to lose. I see a couple of things here, you probably know what’s coming: <snip my usual thing Heya Melanie, why don’t you try 3 days of meat, fish, fowl, eggs only and just plain water to drink?  Meat/fish to be seasoned with salt and pepper only, fresh only.  If you lose, great we know that something in your diet is causing a stall, then we can go back and find out what it is probably the cheese and cream, maybe the berries.  It is also possible that the yeast thing is rearing it’s ugly head again (yeast problems can recur at a lowgrade level) or that thyroid function is hurting your weight loss. Anyway, give meat and water 3 days to work, then we can figure this out. Also, if you get headaches from caffeine withdrawal drink plain hot tea (not coffee) not more than a cup or two per the three days. Best wishes, K in Cali :

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:Ok…I don’t necessarily like it but I am willing to try 3 days of meat. :Assuming that we have hit on something and that works how do I add other foods :back into the diet?  Would coffee really be that terrible?  Just one cup is :such a treat to me. Believe me I understand.  I have found on my diet that tea is better than coffee and I only suggested it to ease any caffein withdrawal discomfort you might have experienced so that it wouldn’t get confused with anything else so that you stay with the meat and such for three days.  Additionally you can’t have cream for the three days nor any other dairy product and you mentioned that you have cream in your coffee.  Some folks need cream to cut the bitterness of coffee so I suggested tea instead. : :One other thing….I was on low carb for a month before I went into ketosis. :Is that a possible indicator that I’m just gonna have a tough time losing and :need to accept it?? Yes, but it could also indicate that you were eating or drinking things that interrupt ketosis.  The meat only diet will help pinpoint if your diet was the problem or if something else is the problem, like low thyroid function. The meat only diet is the *first* thing Atkins suggests for the metabolically resistant lowcarber so it is a good place for us to begin tweaking the diet. :Melanie K in Cali

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Ok…I don’t necessarily like it but I am willing to try 3 days of meat. Assuming that we have hit on something and that works how do I add other foods back into the diet?  Would coffee really be that terrible?  Just one cup is such a treat to me.   One other thing….I was on low carb for a month before I went into ketosis. Is that a possible indicator that I’m just gonna have a tough time losing and need to accept it?? Melanie

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Ok…I don’t necessarily like it but I am willing to try 3 days of meat. Assuming that we have hit on something and that works how do I add other foods back into the diet?  Would coffee really be that terrible?  Just one cup is such a treat to me.

I’ve had 2 cups of morning coffee every single day during my many keto excursions. No problem. One other thing….I was on low carb for a month before I went into ketosis. Is that a possible indicator that I’m just gonna have a tough time losing and need to accept it??

How do you KNOW you weren’t in ketosis? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Try reading the book "Protien Power" I helped me oodles. Jacquie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been losing too slowly….nothing for the past 3 weeks, no inches either. I’m not asking for miracles, just a pound a week.   I am staying at the induction level of carbs and counting everything very carefully.  Do I need to quit caffeine?  I really enjoy my morning coffee!   I read that it can trigger insulin release.  And…I have been using half and half instead of heavy cream.  Do I need to switch to heavy cream? I would appreciate any advice on how to get moving again! Thanks,  Melanie

Response:

I assumed that I was not in ketosis because the ketostix did not change color at all.  I thought that using ketostix was an absolute indicator.  If that is not the case I’d love to know what another measure of ketones is, aside from the breath thing.

Response:

: Ok…I don’t necessarily like it but I am willing to try 3 days of :meat. : Assuming that we have hit on something and that works how do I add ther foods : back into the diet?  Would coffee really be that terrible?  Just one :cup is : such a treat to me. : : :I’ve had 2 cups of morning coffee every single day during my many :keto excursions. No problem. That’s great Steve but Melanie is having a problem. You are kinda coming in on the middle of the conversation K in Cali : : : One other thing….I was on low carb for a month before I went into :ketosis. : Is that a possible indicator that I’m just gonna have a tough time :losing and : need to accept it?? : :How do you KNOW you weren’t in ketosis? : : :Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

:I assumed that I was not in ketosis because the ketostix did not change color :at all.  I thought that using ketostix was an absolute indicator.  If that is :not the case I’d love to know what another measure of ketones is, aside from :the breath thing. Blood test.  Don’t worry, Melanie, I don’t think Steve saw the beginning of the conversation.  How are you doing on the meat and water thing?  How are you feeling? K in Cali

Response:

I haven’t started yet.  Been really busy with the kids.  I’ve got to get to the store first to get enough meat so that I don’t drift off. I hope to start tomorrow.  And I am planning on having one cup of black coffee, unless I hear otherwise.  I would prefer cream in it, but I would prefer to weigh twenty five pounds less also.  I can do without cream for a few days or maybe ever if it is part of the equation.  I’m doing great on water drinking! Melanie

Response:

Cream in coffee was my main concern.  As long as you are gonna drink it black without AS that should be okay for now.  Good job on the water, make sure the meat you buy is unprocessed. K in Cali

:I haven’t started yet.  Been really busy with the kids.  I’ve got to get to the :store first to get enough meat so that I don’t drift off. I hope to start :tomorrow.  And I am planning on having one cup of black coffee, unless I hear therwise.  I would prefer cream in it, but I would prefer to weigh twenty five :pounds less also.  I can do without cream for a few days or maybe ever if it is :part of the equation.  I’m doing great on water drinking! : :Melanie

Response:

I have been losing too slowly….nothing for the past 3 weeks, no inches either. I’m not asking for miracles, just a pound a week.   I am staying at the induction level of carbs and counting everything very carefully.

You might be one of the women who tends to lose in "whooshes" of several pounds over a few days once a month.  My theory is that in some people the emptied fat cells fill with fluid, and the retained fluid tends to get dumped during or after menstruation. —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

Ya know, I do think I am still retaining fluid. Not like before I started lc but my legs and hands feel "full" often.  I haven’t lost several pounds at once yet, tho.  I will keep watch the scale closely for a month and see.   Melanie

Response:

That’s great Steve but Melanie is having a problem. You are kinda coming in on the middle of the conversation K in Cali

D-OHH!! Hey what the heck, I butt in in mid-conversation in the Real World all the time, might as well be consistent, eh? Right, carry on. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

The final verdict and treatment plan for my eye has been made.  I have been diagnosed with Graves Disease.  It is a disease related to Hyperactive Thyroid.  Though the blood tests still show negative for hyperthyroid, a scan showed some abnormalities.  The treatment is drug therapy, and can have some nasty side effects. they feel confident that the disease has been caught early enough to regain the sight in my eye and to halt the disease.  I have been told that these are the most common side effects of thyroid medication, weight gain, lethargy, lack of energy, and nausea.  I fully intend to fight these side effects at full bore as I did not lose 145 lbs only to gain it back again. To all of you who supported me, and gave your wishes and care so freely, Thank you is no where near enough.  I give all of you the credit for saving my eye, for it was your thoughts and prayers that turned the cancer diagnosis around. I am forever grateful for all the warmth you have all shown me during this time. And I am fortunate to count you among my dearest friends. Now….LET’S LOSE WEIGHT!!!  That’s what we are here for. Where is that drill sargent?  Alice?!?!   hehe I am ready.   1 hour tonight on the elliptical, and a  10 mile bike ride with hubby. I intend to make my goal by June 15th.  I have 14 lbs to go! Adreeanna — The 11th commandement: Thou shall not be a smart-ass. http://www.freespeech.org/bad_attitudes/

Response:

The final verdict and treatment plan for my eye has been made.  I have been diagnosed with Graves Disease.  It is a disease related to Hyperactive Thyroid.  Though the blood tests still show negative for hyperthyroid, a scan showed some abnormalities.  The treatment is drug therapy, and can have some nasty side effects. they feel confident that the disease has been caught early enough to regain the sight in my eye and to halt the disease.

That’s wonderful news.  It’s never nice to be sick, of course, but it must be a tremendous relief to know that it’s "only" this. I hope the treatment is successful and rapid. — Melissa 140/125/110 —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

That’s wonderful Adreeana, I’ve been praying for a "better" diagnosis than cancer.  Read up on Graves disease.  Look up articles on the internet.  The more you are prepared to battle this, the easier it will be to win. AmyRN 280/265/to just get back into the swing of things. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst, for they are sticking to their diets.

Response:

You’ll reach goal Adreeanna! You have the strength and courage to do anything you put your mind to. I’ll keep praying for your speedy and complete recovery! {{hugs}} —  Mama "Princess of Tuna" within the royal family. 197/171/150 mini goal. Fellow Crawler "Looking for clever sig line." (

Question:

Thank you Lynda – that was an extremely informative article. jen

Response:

Lynda, Thanks for this. Do you have a date for the conference?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Management of Bipolar Depression by Arline Kaplan Do not assume that the management of bipolar depression is the same as unipolar depression, warned John Zajecka, M.D., associate professor of psychiatry at Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke’s Medical Center, during a presentation at the recent 10th Annual U.S. Psychiatric & Mental Health Congress in Orlando, Fla Lynda

Response:

Management of Bipolar Depression by Arline Kaplan Do not assume that the management of bipolar depression is the same as unipolar depression, warned John Zajecka, M.D., associate professor of psychiatry at Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke’s Medical Center, during a presentation at the recent 10th Annual U.S. Psychiatric & Mental Health Congress in Orlando, Fla. When treating patients with bipolar depression, Zajecka described a number of issues to be considered by the clinician: defining the type of bipolar disorder; choice of treatment; duration of treatment; association between antidepressant treatment and affective cycling; and managing depression in rapid-cycling bipolar and treatment-refractory patients. The ideal treatment option, according to Zajecka, is a mood stabilizer which could be used to treat both phases of the illness, and the different forms of bipolar disorder, without having to utilize antidepressants that often cause or exacerbate cycle acceleration or "precipitate a rapid-cycling episode." "In the old days, lithium was our only approved treatment, but now we have divalproex sodium (Depakote) approved for use for bipolar disorder, so we have really the two gold standards," he said. "And we have quite a bit of information about carbamazepine (Tegretol), although not as much compared to the former two. The atypical neuroleptics also are playing more of an important role, not only in acute treatment but also in long-term treatment. Additionally, some newcomers, including lamotrigine (Lamictal) and possibly gaba-pentin (Neurontin) may play a role in the treatment of bipolar depression." Zajecka listed a number of antidepressants used in the management of bipolar depression: tricyclics, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), bupropion (Wellbutrin), venlafaxine (Effexor), nefazo-done (Serzone), mirtazapine (Remeron) and monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs). "Other options? We should not to forget the usefulness of electroconvulsive therapy for bipolar depression; ECT works on both phases of the illness," he said. "Certainly if someone has a mild depression with a seasonal component, phototherapy is a warranted treatment." Psychotherapy is a critical component, Zajecka added. "There are studies that show as soon as you introduce education and talk more to patients and their family members, the more you are going to increase compliance, and compliance is a big issue with this illness," he said. For very mild depressions, "waiting it out" also can be considered a treatment option. At the initiation of treatment, in particular, Zajecka recommended ruling out hypothyroidism. "I cannot tell you how many times I have patients come into my office who have been on lithium for five or six years, yet their physicians had not checked their thyroid levels. These patients were so severely hypothyroid that they looked depressed. In actuality, a lithium-induced hypothyroid state had occurred. So if any of your patients, particularly those on lithium, get depressive symptoms, check thyroid functioning," he said. Another key element of treatment is to review prior treatment responses and failures and side effects, Zajecka said. Consideration must also be given to the type of depression the patient is experiencing. "If you have a psychotic bipolar depressed patient, you might want to use an antidepressant and neuroleptic or ECT," he said. "Also, alone or in combination, divalproex has been shown in schizoaffective patients, particularly refractory ones, to be very effective when there is psychosis involved with the depression." Zajecka pointed out that for atypical depression, serotonergic agents or the MAO inhibitors are helpful, and for seasonal depression phototherapy can be used. For rapid-cycling or mixed bipolar patients in a depressive episode, Zajecka recommended maximizing the mood stabilizer. In assessing the efficacy of mood stabilizers in treating bipolar depression, Zajecka said that controlled studies showed lithium was superior to placebo in eight of nine studies (N=145), and overall, an unequivocal response was evident in 38% of the patients. In controlled studies, lithium was equivalent to tricyclic antidepressants in two studies, superior in one and inferior in one. For divalproex, Zajecka said that in five open trials, 30% (58 of 195) bipolar patients with depression responded. In an open-label study of divalproex in rapid-cycling bipolar patients (Calabrese and Delucchi, 1990), 47% had an acute antidepressant response and 76% had a prophylactic antidepressant response, with an average duration of a 7.8 month trial. "A lot of these patients did have combination treatment with lithium and divalproex," he said. "While these studies methodologically are not the best, certainly they allude to the fact that there may be something here with divalproex’s effect on treating depression, particularly in these subgroups of bipolar patients." Divalproex also is efficacious in bipolar depression comorbid with other psychiatric disorders. "If you have someone who has an agitated depression…there is data that divalproex for agitation, certainly can be helpful. If somebody has migraines, divalproex has been used for migraine prophylaxis." In the recent 30-site maintenance, placebo-controlled study (Bowden et al., unpublished data) comparing the effectiveness of lithium to divalproex, investigators found that the average depressive symptomatology and functional status were better with divalproex. "Even very mild depressive symptoms showed better preferential treatment response to divalproex compared to lithium," Zajecka said. The study also showed that the greatest increase in depressive symptomatology as measured by the Global Assessment Scale occurred in patients who received lithium as compared to placebo or divalproex. (It should be noted, however, that lithium use is associated with decreased suicide rates among bipolar patients [M

Question:

I have dry skin,tend to have cold hands and feet,feel facially flushed sometimes,occasional yellowing facially.Does anyone else on lithium have similar problems? Does anyone have any info re lithium and thyroid function? Would be most grateful for any ideas or answers. Thanks Tim

Response:

tell your doc of these symptoms, they are symptoms of thyroid problem I am on lithium and I take synthroid, my thyroid is underactive.  It’s a simple blood test.

Response:

tell your doc of these symptoms, what you have described is thyroid problem I’m on lithium and it’s not unusual for theyroid problems it’s just a simple blood test taken from your arm

Response:

Does anyone have any info re lithium and thyroid function? Would be most grateful for any ideas or answers.

Lithium can be hard on the thyroid. It sounds like a real good time to see your doctor and tell him/her about your problems. Some simple blood work ("simple" if you don’t have veins like I do…) and a careful examination of your thyroid area will figure out if you have a problem or not. — IMPORTANT: Remove the edible part of the E-mail address before replying.

Response:

tell your doc of these symptoms, what you have described is thyroid problem I’m on lithium and it’s not unusual for theyroid problems it’s just a simple blood test taken from your arm

Unless you have veins like I do…. then they take the sample from the back of your hand. (It sounds a lot worse than it is.) — IMPORTANT: Remove the edible part of the E-mail address before replying.

Response:

I have dry skin,tend to have cold hands and feet,feel facially flushed sometimes,occasional yellowing facially.Does anyone else on lithium have similar problems? Does anyone have any info re lithium and thyroid function? Would be most grateful for any ideas or answers.

Hi Tim, Please have your thyroid checked…TSH, T3 and T4 . Lithium can affect he thyroid gland adversely. Also I suggest a BUN, Creatinine, and electrolyte panel including liver function tests. Peace, — Reach beyond your grasp!

Response:

hello, i have been on eskalith cr[lithium] 450 mg 5 times aday,they raise the dosage then they lower it i have just been told with in the last year that i have a thyroid problem, hypo. at first it was hyper. but after the iodine treatment i was hypo. with the [lithium] it was bad enough that i gained weight but now with the thyroid disorder and the 4 different meds. i have to take because of the high blood pressure that i didnt know i had either . talk about side effects! dry skin, skin hot , hair stopped growing . sex drive long forgotten, dry mouth, hair falling out,bad dreams live like avampire [ sun light hurt eyes, skin all over].                          write back       levi

Response:

Levi – I would be happy to write back but you didn’t ask a question.  I also am on Li CR, 450 mg 3.5x/day.  What would be helpful to talk about?  I do not have  a thyroid problem, is that your question? -Gandalf

|hello, i have been on eskalith cr[lithium] 450 mg 5 times aday,they raise the |dosage then they lower it i have just been told with in the last year that i |have a thyroid problem, hypo. at first it was hyper. but after the iodine |treatment i was hypo. with the [lithium] it was bad enough that i gained weight |but now with the thyroid disorder and the 4 different meds. i have to take |because of the high blood pressure that i didnt know i had either . talk about |side effects! dry skin, skin hot , hair stopped growing . sex drive long |forgotten, dry mouth, hair falling out,bad dreams live like avampire [ sun |light hurt eyes, skin all over].                          write back levi

Response:

take control.  pay no attention to them. be a revolutionary. by your own gurellia warrior. you have nothing to lose but all your tomorrows.  do not be over medicated.  try a lot less lithium, try time release. never give up. fuck they; you are the man in charge. the md warrior. hello, i have been on eskalith cr[lithium] 450 mg 5 times aday,they raise the dosage then they lower it i have just been told with in the last year that i have a thyroid problem, hypo. at first it was hyper. but after the iodine treatment i was hypo. with the [lithium] it was bad enough that i gained weight but now with the thyroid disorder and the 4 different meds. i have to take because of the high blood pressure that i didnt know i had either . talk about side effects! dry skin, skin hot , hair stopped growing . sex drive long forgotten, dry mouth, hair falling out,bad dreams live like avampire [ sun light hurt eyes, skin all over].                          write back

levi

Response:

Question:

 howdyki…@aol.com (HowdyKitty) wrote:

I recently received and email from a dear friend of mine regarding insulin and PCO. I am a 27 year old, who has all the classic signs of hyperthyroidism…hairloss, moodiness, lack of sex drive, irregular period, goiter. Yet when the doctors did all the thyroid tests they came back in the normal range. I was informed that women with PCO could show symptoms of thyroid problem with lack of evidence in their labs. I am going to make an appointment with my gyno..what should she be looking for? what kind of tests should I ask her to do specific to PCO? Thanks:) susan:)

Hi Susan, I hope I’m not stepping out of bounds in replying… I don’t officially have pco, but I’m pretty sure next week I’ll find out I do (I’m having an ultrasound on Friday). I wanted to reply here because it sounds like you’re going through almost exactly the same thing I am. I went in to see my doctor (my doc is a general practitioner, not a specialist of any kind) because I thought I was hypothyroid – I have many of the symptoms, except no goiter. The doctor agreed there was something wrong, and agreed to test me for thyroid levels. But, he said, if those tests came back normal, he wanted to check for another problem called polycystic ovarian disease. My thyroid *did* come back normal, so now we are doing the pelvic ultrasound to see if I have pco. I think my doc took one look at me and thought pco. In regard to your friend’s e-mail about insulin and PCO – my blood work also indicated abnormally high blood sugar. Yesterday I underwent a glucose tolerance test that showed I have type2 diabetes (adult onset). I’ve done a *lot* of reading about this subject in the past two days, and it seems that PCO and insulin resistance are very much linked. I think a lot of my symptoms that I thought were thyroid-related were in fact due to the diabetes and weight problems. But some of the pco symptoms are the same as hypothyroid. The classic symptoms of pco are irregular or no period, obesity, hair loss, and excess facial or body hair. I think you should just tell the gyno everything you’re feeling and ask to be tested. If the doc is good, he or she will take you seriously and try to figure out what’s wrong with you. If not, get another doctor!! I feel very lucky my doc took my complaints seriously; I’ve read too many horror stories about women whose doctors just blew them off… Thanks for listening. Don’t know if that helped at all… Gina

Response:

Gina L. Grone wrote:

I went in to see my doctor (my doc is a general practitioner, not a specialist of any kind) because I thought I was hypothyroid – I have many of the symptoms, except no goiter. The doctor agreed there was something wrong, and agreed to test me for thyroid levels. But, he said, if those tests came back normal, he wanted to check for another problem called polycystic ovarian disease. My thyroid *did* come back normal, so now we are doing the pelvic ultrasound to see if I have pco. I think my doc took one look at me and thought pco.

Hi Gina, My .02 about doing a pelvic ultrasound to diagnose PCO. There is a strong chance that the doctor will, in fact, find that your ovaries appear polycystic. But there is also a strong chance that he won’t. If he really wants to diagnose PCO more definitively, he should check several hormone levels, mainly your LH, FSH, Testosterone and Free Testosterone. Many women who have PCO have ovaries that do not appear polycystic, while many other women who do not have PCO have ovaries that appear polycystic. Doctors are just beginning to figure out that polycystic-appearing ovaries are more of a common symptom than a real diagnostic tool. So if your doctor hasn’t tested your hormone levels yet, you might want to ask about it. (Hope I’m not telling you a bunch of stuff you already knew.) Take care! Mary

Response:

I recently received and email from a dear friend of mine regarding insulin and PCO. I am a 27 year old, who has all the classic signs of hyperthyroidism…hairloss, moodiness, lack of sex drive, irregular period, goiter. Yet when the doctors did all the thyroid tests they came back in the normal range. I was informed that women with PCO could show symptoms of thyroid problem with lack of evidence in their labs. I am going to make an appointment with my gyno..what should she be looking for? what kind of tests should I ask her to do specific to PCO? Thanks:) susan:)

Response:

Question:

Today I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s disease, aka autoimmune thyroditis. In fact, my doctor said that in 15 yrs of running thyroid antibody blood tests, mine was by a good margin the highest he’s ever seen. While my doctor, who is holistic in approach, has presribed synthroid and says it’s the only treatment he knows of for what is apparently a genetically-transmitted, incurable disorder, I am wanting to get information on any herbal or nutritional or other supports. I would also like to be directed to any good books that describe this condition and thyroid function in general, as well as Internet resources, and would love to connect with others with this condition. Thank you! Simon

Response:

information on any herbal or nutritional or other supports. I would also like to be directed to any good books that describe this condition and thyroid function in general, as well as Internet resources, and would love to connect with others with this condition. Thank you! Simon I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s as well.  I am a public speaker and at times, I almost can’t speak because of the swollen throat area. 1-I suggest you get on the alt.support.thyroid newsgroup.l  It is full of people who are dealing with various problems along this line. 2-The best book for me so far was, Solved: The Riddle of Illness, by Dr. Stephen Langer—very informative. 3-The Synthroid really messed with my hair/skin and moods so I change to natural armour thyroid–which works much better for me. 4-Check out the circulating file on atomodine from the Association of Research and Enlightenment (ARE). I am sure that you can find their www by doing a search. The cyclical use of atomodine has been known to help people with glandular problems—in particular Thyroid.  When I was 28-29 I used it for  two months and got off my synthroid for over 2 decades before I needed to get back on supplements.  I believe if I had been more conscientious about the atomodine I would not have ever had to be in this situation now. Just my 2 cents.  Good luck. Barbara B.

Response:

Cell therapy might work. It has on many problems. Contact ICBR North American INfo Office 800-826-5366 or 314-921-3997 Bob Coulombe 47 Sequoia Circle Santa Rosa, CA 95401

Response:

I too have Hashimoto’s Syndrome.  I received several free pamphlets from the Thyroid Society.  You can call them at (800) THYROID.  They also have several books availble for puchase. The book you suggest sounds interesting.  I’ll check it out. (Solved: The Riddle of Illness, by Dr. Stephen Langer) I am interested in finding out more about the natural amour thyroid and/or atomodine that you mention.  I take Levothroid for a thyroid nodule.  I recently became hyperthyroid and had to have my dose lowered.  My body has gone through changes since an illness earlier this year and I now require a much lower dose of Levothroid (similar to Synthroid).   Bonnie

Response:

Hey! Another triple hitter like me!!! I’ve got all three as well. I see an endo for the hashi’s and my rheumy for the RA and SS (not to mention the opthamologist for the SS). I would bet that you have all three, although hashi’s can cause a lot of similar problems. Once you have one autoimmune disease you’re more likely to have more. I was diagnosed with RA sero-positive a year before the SS and Hashi’s, although I suspect it all started around the same time. In any case you need thyroid replacement therapy in additiuon to the other meds. Check out alt.support.thyroid for mor info and good luck. Rebecca Ford

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I usually just lurk in this newsgroup but felt the need to post.  I am a 34 year old male and have been treated for sero-negative rheumatoid arthritis for about 5 years.  I also have Sjogren’s syndrome.  Its been tough dealing with the joint pain and fatigue etc. when all my blood work comes back perfectly normal.  I’m talking everything, including SED rate.  I start to wonder if its all in my head.   But, for my last blood work my doctor order a new test for Hashimoto’s disease (or Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis) and for once the results were off the charts.  I’m not happy I have this disease but I’m happy that they finally found something concrete (very weird!).  Does anyone else have this or know anything about it.  I really have three questions: Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?  He seems content to continue the usual treatment, Plaquenil, Sulfasalizine and Methorexate.  I’m not to pleased with my current doctor anyway and am looking to change. Can hashimoto’s cause all of my RA symptoms or do I still have RA on top of it? Thank you for any help you can give me.

Response:

Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?

I’ve had chronic Hashimoto’s Disease since I was a child.  I’ve been on Synthroid for 44 years.  Had a total thyroidectomy 4 years ago, so it’s just Synthroid and me from now on.   An endocrinologist is the man to see.  Mine tested me for RA years ago, because Hashimoto’s can cause RA.  I’ve never heard of Hash causing OA. Pat

Response:

Hello all, I usually just lurk in this newsgroup but felt the need to post.  I am a 34 year old male and have been treated for sero-negative rheumatoid arthritis for about 5 years.  I also have Sjogren’s syndrome.  Its been tough dealing with the joint pain and fatigue etc. when all my blood work comes back perfectly normal.  I’m talking everything, including SED rate.  I start to wonder if its all in my head.   But, for my last blood work my doctor order a new test for Hashimoto’s disease (or Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis) and for once the results were off the charts.  I’m not happy I have this disease but I’m happy that they finally found something concrete (very weird!).  Does anyone else have this or know anything about it.  I really have three questions: Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?  He seems content to continue the usual treatment, Plaquenil, Sulfasalizine and Methorexate.  I’m not to pleased with my current doctor anyway and am looking to change. Can hashimoto’s cause all of my RA symptoms or do I still have RA on top of it? Thank you for any help you can give me.

Response:

Does anyone else have this or know anything about it.

I do! I do! It’s not uncommon. Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?  He seems content to continue the usual treatment, Plaquenil, Sulfasalizine and Methorexate.  I’m not to pleased with my current doctor anyway and am looking to change.

I do fine with my GP. Many endocrinologists are diabetes specialists and very blood test focused, so if you go for an endo, find one with a thyroid specialty. If your Hashi’s is simple to treat (most cases are, some are difficult) your GP will probably just give you levothyroxine of one brand or another. At this point, Unithroid’s the brand accepted by the FDA. (Synthroid has been having issues — note that many people think Synthroid is the only brand.) Can hashimoto’s cause all of my RA symptoms or do I still have RA on top of it?

I’ve spent the past year trying to figure out if my symptoms are thyroid or RA, but they’ve become increasingly obviously either RA or MCTD, as the symptoms are getting worse with my otherwise improvement in the Hashi’s department. If, as your TSH drops (and your T4 is being converted to T3 appropriately), your joint condition doesn’t improve, you probably still have RA. I get a lot of help on alt.support.thyroid (it’s as educated and spam-free and supportive as alt.support.arthritis and a lot of great information on http://thyroid.about.com. Suggest to your family members that they let their doctors know they have a family history of Hashi’s. It’s strongly familial. Good luck. ` Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris "I like you guys who want smaller government – you know, just small enough to fit in our bedrooms." Josh to Congressman Skinner, The West Wing

Response:

Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?  He seems content to continue the usual treatment, Plaquenil, Sulfasalizine and Methorexate.  I’m not to pleased with my current doctor anyway and am looking to change. Can hashimoto’s cause all of my RA symptoms or do I still have RA on top of it?

I don’t have Hashimoto’s, but I do have hypothyroidism on top of OA.   Since my primary doc, whom I have been seeing for 20+ years, is an endocrinologist, I was diagnosed with hypo before the OA really got bad. I have been on Synthroid since 1998 and had a THR in 1999. If your Hashimoto’s is off the charts and your doc isn’t treating you for it, it seems logical for you to see an endo. Joyce

Response:

Hi! I’m a lurker here, too. I have had osteo in my spine for decades. But, I also have had Hashi’s since 1960. Way back when, we didn’t question what the drs. said and just took the meds like good little girls and boys. Now it really helps you, the patient, if you know as much as you can about your own disease. That way if you’re not pleased with your treatment by your present dr. you will know why, not just have an uneasy feeling bout him/her. I used to be treated for the thyroiditis by GPs. I see a rheumy, now, because of Scleraderma morphea. My GP was treating me for RA, not knowing that an elevated RA factor is caused by morphea. SD morphea is not life threatening, there is no internal involvement. Do some lurking on alt.support.thyroid for lots of info, even better ask all the questions you want. There are knowledgeable people there, as there are here! Jo NJ

Response:

Hey! Another triple hitter like me!!! I’ve got all three as well. I see an endo for the hashi’s and my rheumy for the RA and SS (not to mention the opthamologist for the SS). I would bet that you have all three, although hashi’s can cause a lot of similar problems. Once you have one autoimmune disease you’re more likely to have more. I was diagnosed with RA sero-positive a year before the SS and Hashi’s, although I suspect it all started around the same time. In any case you need thyroid replacement therapy in additiuon to the other meds. Check out alt.support.thyroid for mor info and good luck. Rebecca Ford

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I usually just lurk in this newsgroup but felt the need to post.  I am a 34 year old male and have been treated for sero-negative rheumatoid arthritis for about 5 years.  I also have Sjogren’s syndrome.  Its been tough dealing with the joint pain and fatigue etc. when all my blood work comes back perfectly normal.  I’m talking everything, including SED rate.  I start to wonder if its all in my head.   But, for my last blood work my doctor order a new test for Hashimoto’s disease (or Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis) and for once the results were off the charts.  I’m not happy I have this disease but I’m happy that they finally found something concrete (very weird!).  Does anyone else have this or know anything about it.  I really have three questions: Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?  He seems content to continue the usual treatment, Plaquenil, Sulfasalizine and Methorexate.  I’m not to pleased with my current doctor anyway and am looking to change. Can hashimoto’s cause all of my RA symptoms or do I still have RA on top of it? Thank you for any help you can give me.

Response:

Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?

I’ve had chronic Hashimoto’s Disease since I was a child.  I’ve been on Synthroid for 44 years.  Had a total thyroidectomy 4 years ago, so it’s just Synthroid and me from now on.   An endocrinologist is the man to see.  Mine tested me for RA years ago, because Hashimoto’s can cause RA.  I’ve never heard of Hash causing OA. Pat

Response:

Hello all, I usually just lurk in this newsgroup but felt the need to post.  I am a 34 year old male and have been treated for sero-negative rheumatoid arthritis for about 5 years.  I also have Sjogren’s syndrome.  Its been tough dealing with the joint pain and fatigue etc. when all my blood work comes back perfectly normal.  I’m talking everything, including SED rate.  I start to wonder if its all in my head.   But, for my last blood work my doctor order a new test for Hashimoto’s disease (or Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis) and for once the results were off the charts.  I’m not happy I have this disease but I’m happy that they finally found something concrete (very weird!).  Does anyone else have this or know anything about it.  I really have three questions: Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?  He seems content to continue the usual treatment, Plaquenil, Sulfasalizine and Methorexate.  I’m not to pleased with my current doctor anyway and am looking to change. Can hashimoto’s cause all of my RA symptoms or do I still have RA on top of it? Thank you for any help you can give me.

Response:

Does anyone else have this or know anything about it.

I do! I do! It’s not uncommon. Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?  He seems content to continue the usual treatment, Plaquenil, Sulfasalizine and Methorexate.  I’m not to pleased with my current doctor anyway and am looking to change.

I do fine with my GP. Many endocrinologists are diabetes specialists and very blood test focused, so if you go for an endo, find one with a thyroid specialty. If your Hashi’s is simple to treat (most cases are, some are difficult) your GP will probably just give you levothyroxine of one brand or another. At this point, Unithroid’s the brand accepted by the FDA. (Synthroid has been having issues — note that many people think Synthroid is the only brand.) Can hashimoto’s cause all of my RA symptoms or do I still have RA on top of it?

I’ve spent the past year trying to figure out if my symptoms are thyroid or RA, but they’ve become increasingly obviously either RA or MCTD, as the symptoms are getting worse with my otherwise improvement in the Hashi’s department. If, as your TSH drops (and your T4 is being converted to T3 appropriately), your joint condition doesn’t improve, you probably still have RA. I get a lot of help on alt.support.thyroid (it’s as educated and spam-free and supportive as alt.support.arthritis and a lot of great information on http://thyroid.about.com. Suggest to your family members that they let their doctors know they have a family history of Hashi’s. It’s strongly familial. Good luck. ` Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris "I like you guys who want smaller government – you know, just small enough to fit in our bedrooms." Josh to Congressman Skinner, The West Wing

Response:

Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?  He seems content to continue the usual treatment, Plaquenil, Sulfasalizine and Methorexate.  I’m not to pleased with my current doctor anyway and am looking to change. Can hashimoto’s cause all of my RA symptoms or do I still have RA on top of it?

I don’t have Hashimoto’s, but I do have hypothyroidism on top of OA.   Since my primary doc, whom I have been seeing for 20+ years, is an endocrinologist, I was diagnosed with hypo before the OA really got bad. I have been on Synthroid since 1998 and had a THR in 1999. If your Hashimoto’s is off the charts and your doc isn’t treating you for it, it seems logical for you to see an endo. Joyce

Response:

Hi! I’m a lurker here, too. I have had osteo in my spine for decades. But, I also have had Hashi’s since 1960. Way back when, we didn’t question what the drs. said and just took the meds like good little girls and boys. Now it really helps you, the patient, if you know as much as you can about your own disease. That way if you’re not pleased with your treatment by your present dr. you will know why, not just have an uneasy feeling bout him/her. I used to be treated for the thyroiditis by GPs. I see a rheumy, now, because of Scleraderma morphea. My GP was treating me for RA, not knowing that an elevated RA factor is caused by morphea. SD morphea is not life threatening, there is no internal involvement. Do some lurking on alt.support.thyroid for lots of info, even better ask all the questions you want. There are knowledgeable people there, as there are here! Jo NJ

Response:

Hey! Another triple hitter like me!!! I’ve got all three as well. I see an endo for the hashi’s and my rheumy for the RA and SS (not to mention the opthamologist for the SS). I would bet that you have all three, although hashi’s can cause a lot of similar problems. Once you have one autoimmune disease you’re more likely to have more. I was diagnosed with RA sero-positive a year before the SS and Hashi’s, although I suspect it all started around the same time. In any case you need thyroid replacement therapy in additiuon to the other meds. Check out alt.support.thyroid for mor info and good luck. Rebecca Ford

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I usually just lurk in this newsgroup but felt the need to post.  I am a 34 year old male and have been treated for sero-negative rheumatoid arthritis for about 5 years.  I also have Sjogren’s syndrome.  Its been tough dealing with the joint pain and fatigue etc. when all my blood work comes back perfectly normal.  I’m talking everything, including SED rate.  I start to wonder if its all in my head.   But, for my last blood work my doctor order a new test for Hashimoto’s disease (or Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis) and for once the results were off the charts.  I’m not happy I have this disease but I’m happy that they finally found something concrete (very weird!).  Does anyone else have this or know anything about it.  I really have three questions: Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?  He seems content to continue the usual treatment, Plaquenil, Sulfasalizine and Methorexate.  I’m not to pleased with my current doctor anyway and am looking to change. Can hashimoto’s cause all of my RA symptoms or do I still have RA on top of it? Thank you for any help you can give me.

Response:

Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?

I’ve had chronic Hashimoto’s Disease since I was a child.  I’ve been on Synthroid for 44 years.  Had a total thyroidectomy 4 years ago, so it’s just Synthroid and me from now on.   An endocrinologist is the man to see.  Mine tested me for RA years ago, because Hashimoto’s can cause RA.  I’ve never heard of Hash causing OA. Pat

Response:

Hello all, I usually just lurk in this newsgroup but felt the need to post.  I am a 34 year old male and have been treated for sero-negative rheumatoid arthritis for about 5 years.  I also have Sjogren’s syndrome.  Its been tough dealing with the joint pain and fatigue etc. when all my blood work comes back perfectly normal.  I’m talking everything, including SED rate.  I start to wonder if its all in my head.   But, for my last blood work my doctor order a new test for Hashimoto’s disease (or Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis) and for once the results were off the charts.  I’m not happy I have this disease but I’m happy that they finally found something concrete (very weird!).  Does anyone else have this or know anything about it.  I really have three questions: Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?  He seems content to continue the usual treatment, Plaquenil, Sulfasalizine and Methorexate.  I’m not to pleased with my current doctor anyway and am looking to change. Can hashimoto’s cause all of my RA symptoms or do I still have RA on top of it? Thank you for any help you can give me.

Response:

Does anyone else have this or know anything about it.

I do! I do! It’s not uncommon. Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?  He seems content to continue the usual treatment, Plaquenil, Sulfasalizine and Methorexate.  I’m not to pleased with my current doctor anyway and am looking to change.

I do fine with my GP. Many endocrinologists are diabetes specialists and very blood test focused, so if you go for an endo, find one with a thyroid specialty. If your Hashi’s is simple to treat (most cases are, some are difficult) your GP will probably just give you levothyroxine of one brand or another. At this point, Unithroid’s the brand accepted by the FDA. (Synthroid has been having issues — note that many people think Synthroid is the only brand.) Can hashimoto’s cause all of my RA symptoms or do I still have RA on top of it?

I’ve spent the past year trying to figure out if my symptoms are thyroid or RA, but they’ve become increasingly obviously either RA or MCTD, as the symptoms are getting worse with my otherwise improvement in the Hashi’s department. If, as your TSH drops (and your T4 is being converted to T3 appropriately), your joint condition doesn’t improve, you probably still have RA. I get a lot of help on alt.support.thyroid (it’s as educated and spam-free and supportive as alt.support.arthritis and a lot of great information on http://thyroid.about.com. Suggest to your family members that they let their doctors know they have a family history of Hashi’s. It’s strongly familial. Good luck. ` Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris "I like you guys who want smaller government – you know, just small enough to fit in our bedrooms." Josh to Congressman Skinner, The West Wing

Response:

Should I see an endocrinologist for this or should I continue with my rheumatologist?  He seems content to continue the usual treatment, Plaquenil, Sulfasalizine and Methorexate.  I’m not to pleased with my current doctor anyway and am looking to change. Can hashimoto’s cause all of my RA symptoms or do I still have RA on top of it?

I don’t have Hashimoto’s, but I do have hypothyroidism on top of OA.   Since my primary doc, whom I have been seeing for 20+ years, is an endocrinologist, I was diagnosed with hypo before the OA really got bad. I have been on Synthroid since 1998 and had a THR in 1999. If your Hashimoto’s is off the charts and your doc isn’t treating you for it, it seems logical for you to see an endo. Joyce

Response:

Hi! I’m a lurker here, too. I have had osteo in my spine for decades. But, I also have had Hashi’s since 1960. Way back when, we didn’t question what the drs. said and just took the meds like good little girls and boys. Now it really helps you, the patient, if you know as much as you can about your own disease. That way if you’re not pleased with your treatment by your present dr. you will know why, not just have an uneasy feeling bout him/her. I used to be treated for the thyroiditis by GPs. I see a rheumy, now, because of Scleraderma morphea. My GP was treating me for RA, not knowing that an elevated RA factor is caused by morphea. SD morphea is not life threatening, there is no internal involvement. Do some lurking on alt.support.thyroid for lots of info, even better ask all the questions you want. There are knowledgeable people there, as there are here! Jo NJ

Response: