Question:

"This could be genuinely important" Wow. I NEVER thought I would see the day you would admit I was right. Praise the Lord. A miracle!

Response:

Potent carcinogen in most condoms Men aren’t fairing much better in the contraceptive area. In May 2004, a new study coming out of Berlin had some disturbing conclusions. A German research facility revealed that most condoms contain a potent carcinogen, N-Nitrosamine. After testing 32 types of condoms, they found that 29 contained the cancer causing chemical at very highly elevated levels. This finding shows this elevated level is up to three times compared with what could be found in food.

Ah–just read this one. So it is more than one manufacturer. This could be genuinely important, despite the fact that it is coming from you, Paul. But there are data suggesting that exposure from condoms isn’t where one need be concerned. I would be happy, nonetheless, to see these substances removed from latex products.                 George M. Carter ** Int J Hyg Environ Health. 2001 Nov;204(2-3):103-10. Related Articles, Links   Toxicological evaluation of nitrosamines in condoms. Proksch E. Klinik fur Dermatologie, Venerologie und Allergologie, Universitat Kiel, Schittenhelmstr. 7, D-24105 Kiel, Germany. Volatile N-nitrosamines have been found in rubber products including gloves, balloons, toys, baby bottle teats, soothers, and condoms. N-Nitrosamines are potent carcinogens, and therefore, European legislation has limited the release of N-nitrosamines and N-nitrosatable compounds in teats and soothers to 0.01-0.1 mg/kg rubber, respectively. Previously, endogenous nitrosamine formation in the vagina has been suggested as a cause of cervical cancer. It was speculated that exogenous N-nitrosamines and N-nitrosatable compounds from condoms may also lead to genital cancer. Therefore, we reviewed the literature and calculated the risk for the induction of tumors by nitrosamines from condoms. In vitro Biaudet et al. (1997) found up to 88 ng nitrosatable compounds migrating from condoms to cervical mucous within 24 hrs. During sexual intercourse about 0.6 ng may migrate in the female genital mucous membranes because of the short contact to the condom, e.g. 10 min. Comparable amounts of nitrosamines may also migrate in the penile skin. Estimating 1500 contacts to condoms during lifetime (50 condoms/year for 30 years) this may result in the adsorption of up to 0.9 microgram nitrosamines in total. Animal studies in Syrian hamsters showed the induction of local and/or systemic tumors, in particular liver tumors, after topical application of nitrosamines to the skin or mucous membrane at a total dose of about 1 g. This dose exceeds the dose to be expected from contact with condoms by more than 1 million. Also, epidemiological studies do not support a role for condoms in the induction of cancer. The incidence of cervical cancer and liver tumors is high in developing countries, where condoms are seldom used. In addition, humans are regularly exposed to nitrosamines from food and tobacco smoke at a dose which is 1,000 to 10,000 fold higher than expected from condom use. In summary, the risk for the induction of tumors from nitrosamines in condoms is very low.

Response:

Potent carcinogen in most condoms Men aren’t fairing much better in the contraceptive area. In May 2004, a new study coming out of Berlin had some disturbing conclusions. A German research facility revealed that most condoms contain a potent carcinogen, N-Nitrosamine. After testing 32 types of condoms, they found that 29 contained the cancer causing chemical at very highly elevated levels. This finding shows this elevated level is up to three times compared with what could be found in food. The scientists at The Chemical and Veterinary Investigation Institute who conducted this research said, "N-Nitrosamine is one of the most carcinogenic substances. There is a pressing need for manufacturers to tackle this problem." The purpose of this chemical found in condoms is to increase the elasticity of latex rubber which is released with a condom comes in contact with a person’s body fluids. While most men and women think condoms will provide "safe sex," few understand that condoms do not always protect someone from contracting STDs (sexually transmitted diseases) or AIDS, which has an incubation period of up to ten years. It’s claimed that latex works better than biological products such as lambskin, but seepage can still occur. This means that when an individual, male or female, is thinking about entering into an intimate relationship with someone new, they must consider the new person’s past sexual history for up to ten years. Study Says Condoms Contain Cancer-Causing Substance Reuters ^ | Fri May 28,12:09 PM ET BERLIN (Reuters) – Most condoms contain a cancer-causing chemical and their manufacture should be subject to greater quality control, a German scientific research institute said Friday. The Chemical and Veterinary Investigation Institute in Stuttgart, Germany, said it found the carcinogen N-Nitrosamine present in 29 of 32 types of condoms it tested in simulated conditions. "N-Nitrosamine is one of the most carcinogenic substances," the study’s authors said. "There is a pressing need for manufacturers to tackle this problem." The carcinogen is thought to be present in a substance used to improve condom elasticity. When the rubber material comes in contact with human bodily fluids, it can release traces of N-Nitrosamine, the study said. Local government officials said condom users should not stop using rubber contraceptives based on results of the study because N-Nitrosamine does not present an immediate health danger. But Germany’s Federal Institute for Risk Assessment said that daily condom use exposed users to N-Nitrosamine levels up to three times higher than levels naturally present in food. Sobering news for rubber contraceptive users.

Question:

(DeliciousLaugh)

Thanks for the info. I agree with your aol quote… http://www.johnkerry.com/front/splash.html  —   http://www.democrats.org/ Bush is scary lets elect Kerry! http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=42263 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/01/60minutes/main609889.shtml

Response:

http://www.citydental.com.au/researchamal.htm AMALGAM AND MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS Peter Sheridan BDS, MDS, Part-time Lecturer, Faculty of Dentistry, Sydney University, Chairman, Individual and Family Services Committee, International Federation of MS Societies (This article is based on a thesis titled "Amalgam Restorations and Mercury Toxicity" presented as partial requirement for the degree of Master of Dental Surgery, Sydney University 1992) SUMMARY The safety of dental amalgam restorations has been challenged with assertions that mercury released from amalgam produces mercury poisoning, and is thus responsible for diverse symptoms of impaired health as well as disease states such as Multiple Sclerosis (MS). This article examines the scientific and clinical basis for these claims and particularly the assertion that MS is caused and affected by mercury from dental amalgam and that removal of amalgam restorations is a cure for MS. The "anti-amalgam" perspective is explored and the validity of the claims scrutinised. A review of the scientific literature, and the statements of national and international dental and scientific organisations reflect the general support for the safety of dental amalgam. There is no credible scientific evidence that health risks are associated with the use of dental amalgam other than rare local allergic reactions and oral lichenoid lesions. In the specific case of Multiple Sclerosis there is no justification for the claim that mercury from amalgam restorations either initiates the disease process or contributes to exacerbations. There are no general health benefits which justify the removal of amalgams, and no change in the symptoms and course of MS as a consequence. Notwithstanding the usefulness and safety of dental amalgam it is recommended that due to the inherent bioincompatibility of mercury its use should be limited and phased out as a therapeutic modality. When restorations are necessary or amalgam fillings require replacement, patients should be advised of suitable alternative dental materials. Dental preventive measures should be instituted with the aim of avoiding the need for restorations altogether. The health professions and MS Societies have a significant role to play in providing informed opinion and advice for those with MS who are concerned about amalgam as a cause of MS, in countering the more eccentric claims of the anti-amalgamists and assuaging the anxiety and confusion which accompanies the subject. INTRODUCTION Claims have been made that health risks are associated with the use of dental amalgam. The alleged toxic effects of mercury, which is a requisite ingredient in dental amalgam restorations, have been proposed as the basis for symptoms of ill-health (e.g. depression, fatigue, joint pains and headaches), a major factor in the aetiology of numerous conditions (e.g. infertility, birth defects, leukaemia, cancer, cardiovascular disorders) and the cause of chronic ailments (such as Multiple Sclerosis and other diseases of the immune system), asthma, arthritis, chronic fatigue syndrome and candidiasis, as well as many other neurologic and emotional disorders (Pinto, Huggins 1976; Huggins 1982,1983; Geddes 1989; Graham 1987;Ziff S 1984, Ziff MF 1992; Ziff & Ziff, 1987, 1988a,1988b; Fleva 1983, 1994; Kupsinel 1984; Black 1990; Hanson 1983,1988; Heinke 1990;Godfrey 1990; Stock, Jaensch 1983; Lohyn 1983,1984,1989; Warren 1989; Siblerud 1989,1990; Siblerud, Kienholz 1994; Stortebecker 1982; Schalin 1980; Ingalls 1983,1986a,1986b; Lorscheider, Vimy, Summers 1995; Baasch 1966). There is continuing concern and confusion in the general as well as the scientific and dental communities surrounding the recurring claims that mercury poisoning occurs through its use in dental amalgam and the recommendations that the removal of amalgam will alleviate symptoms of diverse disease states. Multiple Sclerosis is one of the diseases most often quoted in this context and all over the world many thousands of people with Multiple Sclerosis contemplate removal of their amalgam restorations as a potential remedy. These speculations are promoted by a diverse array of individuals and groups (which can be loosely defined as the anti-amalgam lobby) and fuelled by regular sensationalist media exposes (Panorama 1994). The essence of the anti-amalgam argument contains the following key features:      * 1. That the mercury released from amalgam is at a high level and constitutes a serious health hazard to the population.      * 2. Allergy to amalgam is prevalent in the community and large numbers of the population have developed toxic systemic reactions to mercury.      * 3. The clinical signs of mercury poisoning include a vast number of symptoms and diseases.      * 4. Oral galvanism is a consequence of contact between amalgam and other dental materials and contributes to mercury poisoning and symptoms.      * 5. Inorganic mercury from amalgam can be methylated by the body to become the more toxic mercury.      * 6. Removal of amalgam will alleviate symptoms and diseases.      * 7. Certain tests can elicit ‘mercury sensitivity’ and ‘mercury toxicity’. There are quantum jumps of attribution whereby:      * A. The symptoms and diseases recorded (particularly neurological and/or immunological of unclear aetiology) are presumed to be initiated or exacerbated by mercury toxicity.      * B. The mercury in amalgam restorations (and particularly released mercury vapour) is assumed to be the aetiological factory in mercury poisoning. These speculations are based on material selectively culled from scientific and peripheral literature and then expanded in significance by emotional and faulty argument. The claims are supported by unsubstantiated and anecdotal case histories as well as questionable testing procedures. Much of the ’scientific evidence’ quoted to prove the damaging effects of mercury from dental amalgam and its role in MS fails to be reproduced in subsequent independent research and most of the articles propounding these views are published in obscure scientific journals or lay, health-oriented publications. DOES EXPOSURE TO MERCURY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ILL-HEALTH IN GENERAL? Mercury (also known as Quicksilver) is a natural element and a distinctive metal in that it is liquid at room temperature. As well as its use in dentistry (3% of total), mercury is used in many industries: —production of chlorine, pulp and paper, insecticides —manufacture of neon lights, paper, paints, jewellery, cosmetics —electroplating and photography —extraction of gold The public is exposed to mercury in many forms: —contaminants in foods (particularly fish) and food additives; —environmental pollution (heavy industry, fossil fuels); —medications (diuretics, anti-bacterial agents, laxatives, skin antiseptics): —cosmetics (bleaching ointments): —electric components; —paints: —amalgam restorations. The release of mercury from amalgam must be considered in the broader panorama of mercury as it impacts on humanity. Excluding chronic occupational exposure, the main everyday sources of mercury exposure are environmental and dietary (particularly fish) and to a lesser degree from dental amalgam. The effects of mercury on the human body are related to the level and frequency of exposure and the form of mercury. Chronic occupational exposure to high levels of mercury vapour (such as might occur in chloride and battery factories) can produce both subtle and obvious neurological and neurophysiological changes. Much of this is reversible if the source is removed. Eighty percent of mercury vapour inhaled is absorbed from the lungs into the bloodstream and distributed throughout the body. Toxic exposure to organic mercury (e.g. methylmercury), which is the most harmful form of mercury, is general seen in contaminated foods. In Minimata, Japan, industrial waste inorganic mercury dumped into the bay was naturally converted into methylmercury, entering the fish food chain and eventually poisoning thousands of local residents. In Iraq, contaminated grains caused mass poisoning when made into bread and consumed. One of the target areas of mercury is the brain and thus some of the toxic effects of mercury are seen as neurological and related neurophysiological changes. Symptoms of mercury poisoning can be seen as weakness, tremor and cognitive changes. Because they emanate from changes to the brain there are superficial similarities with Multiple Sclerosis. The symptoms of general ill-health (fatigue, loss of appetite, headaches, etc.) often cited as evidence of mercury poisoning are not unique to any particular disease state. Other physical and psychological causes for these symptoms should be considered by trained medical personnel. The retention of mercury in the body is variable with a half-life in most tissues of approximately 50 days but ranging from a few hours in the lungs up to many years in the brain. The Central Nervous System is targeted by mercury vapour and methylmercury, the latter passing more easily through the blood brain barrier, presumably accounting for the high degree of accumulation of methylmercury in the CNS and the associated neurological disturbances. Eventually most of the mercury is excreted in the faeces and urine. IS THE RELEASE OF MERCURY FROM AMALGAM SUFFICIENT TO CAUSE DISEASE OR ILLNESS? Dental amalgam (or silver amalgam) is a solid inorganic compound produced by the mixing together of silver fillings (or beads) and mercury to form a plastic mass which sets after placement in a prepared cavity in the tooth. Amalgam has been used for some 130 years as a dental restorative material and accounts for approximately 80% of single tooth restorations. Dental amalgam is not an entirely inert substance, the major health considerations … read more »

Response:

Title:  The beneficial effect of amalgam replacement on health in patients with autoimmunity.   Authors:  Prochazkova J, Sterzl I, Kucerova H, Bartova J, Stejskal VD.   Source:  Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2004 Jun;25(3):211-8.   Abstract: BACKGROUND: Patients with certain autoimmune and allergic diseases, such as systemic lupus, multiple sclerosis, autoimmune thyroiditis or atopic eczema, often show increased lymphocyte stimulation by low doses of inorganic mercury in vitro. The patients often report clinical metal hypersensitivity, especially to nickel. OBJECTIVE AND METHODS: In this study we examined the health impact of amalgam replacement in mercury-allergic patients with autoimmunity. The suitability of MELISA, an optimized lymphocyte stimulation test, for the selection of susceptible patients and monitoring of sensitization was also examined. Amalgam fillings were replaced with composites and ceramic materials. Follow-up health status and lymphocyte reactivity were assessed and evaluated half a year or later following amalgam removal. RESULTS: Results of lymphocyte reactivity measured with MELISA indicate that in vitro reactivity after the replacement of dental amalgam decreased significantly to inorganic mercury, silver, organic mercury and lead. Out of 35 patients, 25 patients (71%) showed improvement of health. The remaining patients exhibited either unchanged health (6 patients, 17%) or worsening of symptoms (4 patients, 11%). The highest rate of improvement was observed in patients with multiple sclerosis, the lowest rate was noted in patients with eczema. The initial mercury-specific lymphocyte reactivity was significantly higher in the responder group, than in the non-responders, whose health was not improved by amalgam removal. All patients with health improvement after amalgam replacement showed reduced proliferation to inorganic mercury in follow-up MELISA. In vitro responses to phenylmercury and nickel did not differ between the groups. CONCLUSIONS: Mercury-containing amalgam may be an important risk factor for patients with autoimmune diseases. MELISA is a valuable tool for selection of patients for amalgam replacement and also for monitoring of metal allergies.

Response:

Question:

One other bit of data… I found out that back when I was 27, it was common practice to flush the needles with epinephrine before priming the serum vial and pulling out the serum (I remember them dong this too). My current allergist thinks that my previous reactions at 27 were panic attacks triggered by the epinephrine, not allergy reactions to the serum. In any case, she absolutely forbids her people to use this epinephrine flush for allergy shots. She also makes you wait in the office for at least 20 minutes to make sure you don’t show any short term reactions to the shots. I’m on a monthly schedule now, and so far so good.

A good idea, because I had a reaction to allergy shots as I was building up.  I suspect the assistant accidentally gave me a larger dose than my real level.  I had to have a giant epinephrine injection. That worked and there were no major asthma effects, just massive sinus and swolen soft pallet problems for a day.  Scary though. Nonetheless, I lasted through the shots to reach a maximum level and remained there for several years after which my allergist noted that my usual spring pollen reaction was not happening and some other symptoms were almost no existent.  He suggested I go off the shots and see what happens.  That was over 10 yrs ago and I am doing fine with allergies. However, asthma remains a problem for which the shots did not help. Singulair from my allergist helped that a lot.  But at least my springs are not miserable times anymore.  YMMV. — Lou Pecora   – My views are my own.

Response:

My current allergist said that the thing with the epinephrine was not that unusual 15 to 20 years ago. She also says that was a very bad idea. FWIW… Dan Rhea

Dan, I don’t know to what school of practice your doctor refers. I have not known allergists who would do that, and my acquaintance goes back forty years, to the time when the speciality was small and I knew most of the Board certified allergists personally. I have heard of such, but have never known of it to be "not that unusual." If there be any irrational rationale for washing the syringe with epinephrine it would be that it is an attempt to decrease the size of the local reactions to the shots. The reason this is a dangerous practice is that we use the size of those local reactions to help determine safe dosages and safe dosage increases. If you ablate the local reactions you may progress to the point of systemic reactions, even severe ones, with no prior warning. The use of prednisone to allow you to tolerate your shots makes no physiologic sense whatsoever. The immediate reaction to an allergy shot, whether it be local or systemic in nature, is by an anaphylactic mechanism: it involves immediate release of mediators, leading to local urticaria or to immediate type systemic symptoms. Steroids do not, repeat, do not protect against anaphylaxis. Therefore you were being given a medicine with a downside to provide a good effect that could not possibly exist. There is a reason for specialty training, as your present doctor knows, and as your dermatologist apparently did not. Now, down off my soapbox, only to climb up on it again given the slightest opportunity.      Larry  

Response:

One other bit of data… I found out that back when I was 27, it was common practice to flush the needles with epinephrine before priming the serum vial and pulling out the serum (I remember them dong this too).

Absolutely not!! A doctor who would do this also would not read any of the allergy literature or allergy texts, or attend allergy educational meetings. No, no, no.      Larry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One other bit of data… I found out that back when I was 27, it was common practice to flush the needles with epinephrine before priming the serum vial and pulling out the serum (I remember them dong this too). Absolutely not!! A doctor who would do this also would not read any of the allergy literature or allergy texts, or attend allergy educational meetings. No, no, no.      Larry

Hi Larry No argument from me… The description you give sounds a LOT like the doctor I was seeing for my allergies when I was 27 (I’m 46 now). The doctor was actually a dermatologist who also treated allergies. My regular doctor (I had just changed to him when my old doctor retired), asked me to "never see this dermatologist again". This was based on the fact that the dermatologist also had me on 5mg a day of prednisone for about six months "to help me tolerate my allergy shots". My current allergist said that the thing with the epinephrine was not that unusual 15 to 20 years ago. She also says that was a very bad idea. FWIW… Dan Rhea "Loyalty is for family, friends and country, not operating systems, compilers and computers"   – Dan Rhea, 1986

Response:

Hi everyone, I finally got in to see another dr. for the Texas rehab to help me find a clean air job.  Rehab in this case is not drug or alcohol.  All the paper says to be filled out by the doc, is what is my air flow measurements, and the other questions involve how long can I stand, sit, walk, etc.  Also what needs to be avoided.  I could answer them in 5 mins. but they need to be filled out by the dr. Today I had a very nice dr as opposed to the last one, but instead of just filling out the papers, he wants to do skin testing, shots, etc.  I explained to him, I had the skin tests before, I know what I am allergic to, and the shots did not work on me.  In fact, I never ever in 2 years got past the first 100th of a cc.  They tried changing the serum and nothing worked. He ways they have ways of getting around this with split shots, and other desensitizers. I don’t want to go thru all this again.  I do not want to take shots.  I hate being injected, and I hate having weird stuff injected in my body.  My allergys here vs Kentucky are way better.  I have triggers that trigger the asthma, but they are smoke, pestacides, chemicals and perfumes.  I have cats outside, goats and a couple of sheep.  I work outside on the fencing, etc and never use my inhaler.  I hardly ever sneeze and don’t have the sinus congestion like I used to.  I use Flonase and it really has worked well for me. So my question is, if the shots didn’t do anything for me then, why would they now.  I recently tested for fruit allergys, by blood test, and my body is still allergic to fruit after all these years.  The last time I ate fruit I was 16, and am now 41.  So my body didn’t forget so why should the shots work now? This is so frustrating.  Most of the time I have no asthma symptoms.  Just if I get into my above listed triggers.  I am really good at preventing an attack by using my flovent faithfully, and staying away from my triggers. So my paper didn’t get filled out, the dr.s office is waiting for me to call back to get an appointment and I wanted some feedback before I call my job counselor.  Thanks in advance. Kathy

Response:

Allergy shots aren’t for everyone. They didn’t work for me. Joan

Response:

Allergy shots aren’t for everyone. They didn’t work for me. Joan

My case with the allergy shots has been a strange one… they tried it when I was 27 and put me on prednisone to help me "tolerate" the shots… That ended when I did an unrelated doctor change (old doctor retired). The allergist was a friend of my new doctor… you should have heard the phone call the new doctor made to the allergist when he found out they had put me on prednisone (for almost 6 months, 10mg /day). I didn’t know any better, and it pushed my weight from about 230 pounds to over 300 pounds… They didn’t warn you about side effects back then either… not always anyway. I’m 46 now, and have been taking allergy shots (almost the same serum makeup), but this time I’m not only handling the shots, they appear to be helping quite a bit. You just never know with these things. One other bit of data… I found out that back when I was 27, it was common practice to flush the needles with epinephrine before priming the serum vial and pulling out the serum (I remember them dong this too). My current allergist thinks that my previous reactions at 27 were panic attacks triggered by the epinephrine, not allergy reactions to the serum. In any case, she absolutely forbids her people to use this epinephrine flush for allergy shots. She also makes you wait in the office for at least 20 minutes to make sure you don’t show any short term reactions to the shots. I’m on a monthly schedule now, and so far so good. Dan Rhea "Loyalty is for family, friends and country, not operating systems, compilers and computers"   – Dan Rhea, 1986

Response:

Question:

You almost don’t have to have the blood test. Other AEDs are used without monitoring blood levels. Your blood level isn’t necessarily the same as your neighbors, while the drug is working, nor is it necessarily reflective of what your blood level should be. You should blame the rectumholes who invented the test. Yet, another reason to proceed right on to Trileptal! No, I don’t own the stock; I take the drug, and my drug benefit pays, through the nose, about $1500/year. Cheeers, Kent – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -turbinado wrote:

I’m about to start switching to Tegretol and just found out that I’ll have to have a blood test every two weeks – indefinitely. I’m just wondering how long this is likely to go on for. The doctor just said we’ll just have to "see how things go", he couldn’t tell me anything more than that. This terrifies me because blood tests are not easy for me, my veins are very delicate and in fact, one collapsed on my last test a few days ago. I’m afraid that with bi-weekly blood tests, I’ll end up with no veins left in my arms. What are other people’s experiences with Tegretol? I know they have to test the blood levels of the drug and liver enzymes when you first start – how long does this tend to go on for?

Response:

Howdie/2/[different from Howdy-1]: How do they check your blood levels with Trileptal?   Since each person’s purging rate is different and there’s differences Male/Female and Adult/Child in the purging rates of Tegretol, the initial blood tests, as a Target Dose Level of Carbamazepine is approached, are used to tell how much of the Therapeutic Dose hoped for, is actually remaining in the blood.   Tegretol also has a Non-linear Absorption rate (I’d expect lots of other AEDs have too)–

that’s where a slight increase can produce a larger effect

than the proportion of mg.s increase written on the Pill Bottle.  I’d be surprised if Trileptal doesn’t have similar constraints.    Earlier on this message string I posted that I only had the Monthly or Quarterly Blood tests as we approached the First Threshold using Tegretol as a Single (Mono) Therapy(1994).  When Frisium was introduced and I was slowly adjusted to remove the night dose of Tegretol and replace it with the Frisium, I didn’t have any Blood Work since we knew the type of C.P. Seizures we were trying to control, and my level (lack) of Auras or Side Effects indicated that the levels we were using were acceptable.    My Dose levels on both those medications were last Altered in ~1995-6.  I don’t remember if Trileptal had even been approved yet, in Canada.      Because a Medication works for you (or ME for that matter), does not mean it’s the Golden Cure for everyone else.  Each person’s seizure characteristics, metabolism rate of purging Meds. and responses or not to the drugs selected by the Doctors will be different.   (My Drug Plan pays about $550./year, I pay ~$160. total for Both Drugs. Comparing Prices of meds. also serves little use to assess their Therapeutic Values.  The Costs reflect whether the Med. is New (less than 5 years so recovering Research Costs), or Olde like Dilantin (1930s) and Research costs are paid off now.)   I don’t know anything about Trileptal.  Why would you assume it would work for her, just because it does for you?   Are both your Seizure types the same?  (I haven’t gone back to history log to see.)  I just wondered. Although I’ll say ‘this is what to do or not to do with Tegretol if some of these symptoms present’, I try to avoid Prescribing Online for a stranger where I’m not familiar with their Medical History…  Your Objectivity also became suspect on line 3 below. It’s hard to get a Double Blind test whose results are reliable, if all you’re dealing with are ‘rectumholes’.. G.R. "Kent H." wrote:

You almost don’t have to have the blood test. Other AEDs are used without monitoring blood levels. Your blood level isn’t necessarily the same as your neighbors, while the drug is working, nor is it necessarily reflective of what your blood

          *****************************************************

level should be. You should blame the rectumholes who

**** G.: ** ??I don’t follow how a BLOOD TEST is Not reflective of your Blood Levels, but NO TEST IS?? :-<  *******

invented the test. Yet, another reason to proceed right on to Trileptal!

************************************************************** – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

No, I don’t own the stock; I take the drug, and my drug benefit pays, through the nose, about $1500/year. Cheeers, Kent turbinado wrote: I’m about to start switching to Tegretol and just found out that I’ll have to have a blood test every two weeks – indefinitely. I’m just wondering how long this is likely to go on for. The doctor just said we’ll just have to "see how things go", he couldn’t tell me anything more than that. This terrifies me because blood tests are not easy for me, my veins are very delicate and in fact, one collapsed on my last test a few days ago. I’m afraid that with bi-weekly blood tests, I’ll end up with no veins left in my arms. What are other people’s experiences with Tegretol? I know they have to test the blood levels of the drug and liver enzymes when you first start – how long does this tend to go on for?

Response:

Thank you everyone for all your feedback. I’m on my second week of the Tegretol, I am getting a bit of easy bruising but my doctor doesn’t seem too worried about it at the moment. Now he says I’ll probably only need the tests for about two months.

Response:

 Gareth <i…@SPAMBLOCKseizuresalad.org.uk

wrote I’ve hardly had any blood tests over the last six years I’ve been on Tegretol, only when my dose levels have altered which has been about two or three times. I had a few when I first started, just to keep an eye on my blood levels, but this was stopped once I’d reached a suitable level to control my seizures. Gareth.

Exactly the same for me as for Gareth – even though I’ve reduced the amount of Tegretol I take from 1600mg to 800mg, I haven’t had a test for years and years.   They’re usually only done whilst your body gets used to it. Different people will absorb and metabolise the same dose of medication at different rates, especially if they’re on other meds. All they want to do is monitor blood serum levels of Tegretol and a few electrolytes, blood cells etc until they’re satisfied it’s stable and OK. Then it seems they’ll give you blood tests on your Silver and Golden wedding anniversaries only. — Malcolm     http://www.mtdomain.demon.co.uk

Response:

Trileptal and tegretol are very closely related structurally. The tegretol blood test basically measures the same metabolite of tegretol and trileptal. The normal value is relevant for each drug 4-10 ug. The drug is approved in Canada. It has been approved for quite a long time in most of Europe, but relatively a short period of time here. I recognize you don’t suggest blanket use of an AED in all cases on this NG or anywhere else. However in this instance Physicians’ Online has suggested the use of trileptal in seniors with temporal lobe epilepsy over tegretol in a somewhat blanket fashion. Look at: http://enotes.tripod.com/seizure.htm for a good synopsis. There are also high brow links to many MD sites and to Medline. Kent – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"G. Ross" wrote:

Howdie/2/[different from Howdy-1]: How do they check your blood levels with Trileptal?   Since each person’s purging rate is different and there’s differences Male/Female and Adult/Child in the purging rates of Tegretol, the initial blood tests, as a Target Dose Level of Carbamazepine is approached, are used to tell how much of the Therapeutic Dose hoped for, is actually remaining in the blood.   Tegretol also has a Non-linear Absorption rate (I’d expect lots of other AEDs have too)– that’s where a slight increase can produce a larger effect than the proportion of mg.s increase written on the Pill Bottle.  I’d be surprised if Trileptal doesn’t have similar constraints.    Earlier on this message string I posted that I only had the Monthly or Quarterly Blood tests as we approached the First Threshold using Tegretol as a Single (Mono) Therapy(1994).  When Frisium was introduced and I was slowly adjusted to remove the night dose of Tegretol and replace it with the Frisium, I didn’t have any Blood Work since we knew the type of C.P. Seizures we were trying to control, and my level (lack) of Auras or Side Effects indicated that the levels we were using were acceptable.    My Dose levels on both those medications were last Altered in ~1995-6.  I don’t remember if Trileptal had even been approved yet, in Canada.    Because a Medication works for you (or ME for that matter), does not mean it’s the Golden Cure for everyone else.  Each person’s seizure characteristics, metabolism rate of purging Meds. and responses or not to the drugs selected by the Doctors will be different.   (My Drug Plan pays about $550./year, I pay ~$160. total for Both Drugs. Comparing Prices of meds. also serves little use to assess their Therapeutic Values.  The Costs reflect whether the Med. is New (less than 5 years so recovering Research Costs), or Olde like Dilantin (1930s) and Research costs are paid off now.)   I don’t know anything about Trileptal.  Why would you assume it would work for her, just because it does for you?   Are both your Seizure types the same?  (I haven’t gone back to history log to see.)  I just wondered. Although I’ll say ‘this is what to do or not to do with Tegretol if some of these symptoms present’, I try to avoid Prescribing Online for a stranger where I’m not familiar with their Medical History…  Your Objectivity also became suspect on line 3 below. It’s hard to get a Double Blind test whose results are reliable, if all you’re dealing with are ‘rectumholes’.. G.R. "Kent H." wrote: You almost don’t have to have the blood test. Other AEDs are used without monitoring blood levels. Your blood level isn’t necessarily the same as your neighbors, while the drug is working, nor is it necessarily reflective of what your blood           ***************************************************** level should be. You should blame the rectumholes who **** G.: ** ??I don’t follow how a BLOOD TEST is Not reflective of your Blood Levels, but NO TEST IS?? :-<  ******* invented the test. Yet, another reason to proceed right on to Trileptal! ************************************************************** No, I don’t own the stock; I take the drug, and my drug benefit pays, through the nose, about $1500/year. Cheeers, Kent turbinado wrote: I’m about to start switching to Tegretol and just found out that I’ll have to have a blood test every two weeks – indefinitely. I’m just wondering how long this is likely to go on for. The doctor just said we’ll just have to "see how things go", he couldn’t tell me anything more than that. This terrifies me because blood tests are not easy for me, my veins are very delicate and in fact, one collapsed on my last test a few days ago. I’m afraid that with bi-weekly blood tests, I’ll end up with no veins left in my arms. What are other people’s experiences with Tegretol? I know they have to test the blood levels of the drug and liver enzymes when you first start – how long does this tend to go on for?

Response:

Hi, Good question.  How often do others on this newsgroup have their Tegretol level checked? I’ve been on it for a little over a year and have been checked three times. Once it was low, so my dosage was increased, but otherwise the level has been within therapeutic range. However, when I saw my neuro in April he said he wouldn’t need to check the level for another YEAR.  Seems like an awfully long time between tests and sort of concerns me – especially given the possible side effects of Tegretol.  Am I worrying needlessly? Thanks for any feedback and hope everyone’s well. On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 00:06:27 GMT, "turbinado" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<turbinadoNOS…@telus.net

wrote: I’m about to start switching to Tegretol and just found out that I’ll have to have a blood test every two weeks – indefinitely. I’m just wondering how long this is likely to go on for. The doctor just said we’ll just have to "see how things go", he couldn’t tell me anything more than that. This terrifies me because blood tests are not easy for me, my veins are very delicate and in fact, one collapsed on my last test a few days ago. I’m afraid that with bi-weekly blood tests, I’ll end up with no veins left in my arms. What are other people’s experiences with Tegretol? I know they have to test the blood levels of the drug and liver enzymes when you first start – how long does this tend to go on for?

Response:

Different AEDs are known to have different prominent Side Effects or Adverse Effects  (see clip below).  Tegretol (carbamazepine) causes mild bone marrow depression in a fair percentage of patients.  Usually it is harmless and the patient experiences no symptoms and is unaware unless told by a doctor.  But some people have a severe enough drop that the drug has to be stopped.  The cells most frequently affected are neutrophils (a type of white blood cell) and a drop in these is called ‘neutropenia’.  The total number of white blood cells (the sum of different types added together) can also drop and this is referred to as ‘leukopenia’.  To monitor this, a doctor typically has blood tests done before tegretol is started, and then at the beginning and whenever a dose is raised, blood tests continue every couple of weeks. If a very marked drop occurs, the drug may have to be stopped.  But that is rare.  As I said mild drops are frequent, and there are usually no side effects.  Rare rxs to Tegretol include aplastic anemia and agranulocytosis. For all of these reasctions, minor changes tend to occur at the start of initiating therapy and blood tests are helpful in getting a feel for how a patient reacts.  But the rare severe drops are more often not discovered through the scheduled blood tests, but when a patient reports a problem such as unusual bruising, etc., to their doctor. How often and for how long one will need the tests done depends on how low the levels of the cells of interest are found to be thugh the blood tests. If someone has very little drop in WBCs, and this is stable for a few tests, then the blood tests wouldn’t likely be continued for long after the stable dose is reached (although periodic checks should still be done).  But if someone has a drop that is marked enough, a doctor would want to monitor much more carefully to ensure that the levels don’t become too low.  That could mean both that dose increases would only be done very slowly, and also that the blood tests would be more frequent and last longer.    So there is no specific answer for how long the blood tests have to be done that frequently.  All depends on what degree of effect the Tegretol has on you. Below is tiny clip from: http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/308 Non-CNS Side Effects of Antiepileptic Drugs "Aplastic anemia and agranulocytosis may also occur as an idiosyncratic reaction to carbamazepine. The incidence of these reactions with carbamazepine is about 5 to 8 times greater than that in the untreated population, which is very low — approximately 6 per million per year for agranulocytosis and 2 to 5 per million per year for aplastic anemia (Novartis, product insert).  More important, carbamazepine therapy is typically associated with mild to moderate leukopenia and neutropenia. Patients with these disorders usually remains asymptomatic. These changes do not signify more serious bone marrow suppression unless the neutrophil count falls below 1500/mcL.[17]  Blood counts are helpful in establishing baseline values but are not useful for detecting serious adverse events. Thus, patients should be instructed to notify their physicians immediately if cardinal symptoms arise, such as unexplained fever, easy bleeding or bruising, oral ulcers, or petechial hemorrhages. This precaution is also appropriate for other AEDs that are associated with rare, idiosyncratic reactions (eg, phenytoin, phenobarbital, and valproate)." "Because of the variety and the rarity of adverse systemic reactions to AEDs, physicians initiating AEDs must counsel patients to notify their physician if they develop any new or unusual symptoms. Most patients should also be informed about the more common side effects associated with particular AEDs: gingival hyperplasia with phenytoin, leukopenia and hyponatremia with carbamazepine, renal stones and anorexia with topiramate, weight gain and hair loss with valproic acid, and rash with lamotrigine. This wide variety of adverse reactions highlights the number of body systems other than the CNS that can be affected by AEDs and underscores the importance for physicians to evaluate all aspects of a patient’s physical functioning during treatment of epilepsy." Sue "turbinado" <turbinadoNOS…@telus.net

wrote in message

news:7I4W8.83172$vo2.3813582@news2.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m about to start switching to Tegretol and just found out that I’ll have to have a blood test every two weeks – indefinitely. I’m just wondering

how

long this is likely to go on for. The doctor just said we’ll just have to "see how things go", he couldn’t tell me anything more than that. This terrifies me because blood tests are not easy for me, my veins are very delicate and in fact, one collapsed on my last test a few days ago. I’m afraid that with bi-weekly blood tests, I’ll end up with no veins left in

my

arms. What are other people’s experiences with Tegretol? I know they have to

test

the blood levels of the drug and liver enzymes when you first start – how long does this tend to go on for?

Response:

That’s odd.  I’ve only had my blood levels checked once a year.  You might wanna get a second opinion on that.  Unless you have some special condition you haven’t mentioned here I can’t see why you’d have to get a blood test every two weeks. Cheers D "turbinado" <turbinadoNOS…@telus.net

wrote in message

news:7I4W8.83172$vo2.3813582@news2.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m about to start switching to Tegretol and just found out that I’ll have to have a blood test every two weeks – indefinitely. I’m just wondering

how

long this is likely to go on for. The doctor just said we’ll just have to "see how things go", he couldn’t tell me anything more than that. This terrifies me because blood tests are not easy for me, my veins are very delicate and in fact, one collapsed on my last test a few days ago. I’m afraid that with bi-weekly blood tests, I’ll end up with no veins left in

my

arms. What are other people’s experiences with Tegretol? I know they have to

test

the blood levels of the drug and liver enzymes when you first start – how long does this tend to go on for?

Response:

I’ve hardly had any blood tests over the last six years I’ve been on Tegretol, only when my dose levels have altered which has been about two or three times. I had a few when I first started, just to keep an eye on my blood levels, but this was stopped once I’d reached a suitable level to control my seizures. Gareth. http://www.seizuresalad.org.uk Epilepsy Education for Everyone. When replying to me, remove the ‘SPAMBLOCK’ part of i…@SPAMBLOCKseizuresalad.org.uk — "turbinado" <turbinadoNOS…@telus.net

wrote in message

news:7I4W8.83172$vo2.3813582@news2.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m about to start switching to Tegretol and just found out that I’ll have to have a blood test every two weeks – indefinitely. I’m just wondering

how

long this is likely to go on for. The doctor just said we’ll just have to "see how things go", he couldn’t tell me anything more than that. This terrifies me because blood tests are not easy for me, my veins are very delicate and in fact, one collapsed on my last test a few days ago. I’m afraid that with bi-weekly blood tests, I’ll end up with no veins left in

my

arms. What are other people’s experiences with Tegretol? I know they have to

test

the blood levels of the drug and liver enzymes when you first start – how long does this tend to go on for?

Response:

g’day i had regular blood tests while ramping up my tegretol levels and then six monthly after that, including full blood count and liver function tests. i couldn’t see why you’d need fortnightly tests once your tegretol level was stabilised. pablo "turbinado" <turbinadoNOS…@telus.net

wrote in message

news:7I4W8.83172$vo2.3813582@news2.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m about to start switching to Tegretol and just found out that I’ll have to have a blood test every two weeks – indefinitely. I’m just wondering

how

long this is likely to go on for. The doctor just said we’ll just have to "see how things go", he couldn’t tell me anything more than that. This terrifies me because blood tests are not easy for me, my veins are very delicate and in fact, one collapsed on my last test a few days ago. I’m afraid that with bi-weekly blood tests, I’ll end up with no veins left in

my

arms. What are other people’s experiences with Tegretol? I know they have to

test

the blood levels of the drug and liver enzymes when you first start – how long does this tend to go on for?

Response:

My doctor has me on a blood thinner, so I get frequently blood levels.  Ask them to use a butterfly needle.  This is a thinner needle with plastic flanges on the side of the body.  They use this type of needle on babies.  Some people swear they have fewer problems with a butterfly needle. If they can’t get your veins to rise, they can put a warm compress on your arm to get those veins to pop up. I don’t know if the vein really collapses, but I know if they get scar tissue they might have a tendency to roll away from the needle.  The inside of the arm is the best place for a blood draw.  They can draw elsewhere, but there might be more bruising or even a tiny bit of discomfort from some of the other draw sites. Barb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -turbinado wrote:

I’m about to start switching to Tegretol and just found out that I’ll have to have a blood test every two weeks – indefinitely. I’m just wondering how long this is likely to go on for. The doctor just said we’ll just have to "see how things go", he couldn’t tell me anything more than that. This terrifies me because blood tests are not easy for me, my veins are very delicate and in fact, one collapsed on my last test a few days ago. I’m afraid that with bi-weekly blood tests, I’ll end up with no veins left in my arms. What are other people’s experiences with Tegretol? I know they have to test the blood levels of the drug and liver enzymes when you first start – how long does this tend to go on for?

Response:

I’m about to start switching to Tegretol and just found out that I’ll have to have a blood test every two weeks – indefinitely. I’m just wondering how long this is likely to go on for. The doctor just said we’ll just have to "see how things go", he couldn’t tell me anything more than that. This terrifies me because blood tests are not easy for me, my veins are very delicate and in fact, one collapsed on my last test a few days ago. I’m afraid that with bi-weekly blood tests, I’ll end up with no veins left in my arms. What are other people’s experiences with Tegretol? I know they have to test the blood levels of the drug and liver enzymes when you first start – how long does this tend to go on for?

Response:

They’re monitoring your body’s Purging rate, so they don’t over-medicate you. I don’t know why he said they’d do it Indefinitely.  Maybe you should get him a Rubber Chicken for his desk.   I had tests you described about 3x (6 weeks- 2 weeks apart) as we ramped up the Tegretol from the Dilantin that was being reduced and removed in 1994.  Then I had follow-up appointments with him ~ each 3 months, sometimes with Blood, Most not.  The last adjustments I’ve done with Frisium replacing the Tegretol at night (~1996) was done **without Blood work at all. Last test I had done was in ~1995/6. P.S. Some people have a NonLinear absorption? of Tegretol, and it might be Different ‘for Ladies’ than males.  Someone else on Tegretol can maybe tell you about that.  I think the FRONT END Phaseup Bloodwork (AS YOUR DOSE First is increasing) is to make sure your Body isn’t Purging it Faster than is therapeutic for your system… IF it’s getting absorbed/stored O.K. you won’t look like a Porcupine as he seemed to suggest.   Do NOT STOP Taking Tegretol promptly without the Doctor’s supervision.   IF he or your Pharmacist didn’t tell you: Tell Medic Alert (if you have a bracelet) that you’re using Tegretol (don’t need dose, just the Name by Phone). Also you’re supposed to tell all Doctors and **DENTISTS you’re using it.  (My Dentist changed my Checkup rate from each *6 months to each *4 months.  I’ve had *NO* Problems with using Tegretol, or Calcium problems that are anecdotal in the Literature.)   That’s so they don’t give you any Prescriptions that might Conflict with the Carbamazepine(Tegretol).  G.R. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -turbinado wrote:

I’m about to start switching to Tegretol and just found out that I’ll have to have a blood test every two weeks – indefinitely. I’m just wondering how long this is likely to go on for. The doctor just said we’ll just have to "see how things go", he couldn’t tell me anything more than that. This terrifies me because blood tests are not easy for me, my veins are very delicate and in fact, one collapsed on my last test a few days ago. I’m afraid that with bi-weekly blood tests, I’ll end up with no veins left in my arms. What are other people’s experiences with Tegretol? I know they have to test the blood levels of the drug and liver enzymes when you first start – how long does this tend to go on for?

Response:

Question:

Soy Milk–PLEASE contact ME immediately–there is a problem with your posts and Thank you, Nancy

Nancy to email me, remove the Z. administrator/creator/moderator alt.med.fibromyalgia.recovery.info (moderated) alt.support.depression.manic.moderated

Response:

OOPS–nevermind–I’m confused–wrong news group.  sorry. Thank you, Nancy

Nancy to email me, remove the Z. administrator/creator/moderator alt.med.fibromyalgia.recovery.info (moderated) alt.support.depression.manic.moderated

Response:

I hope you are right.  My dad went and had mine put "where it would not show if I wore a bikini"  so I have never actually seen it.  I think it’s on my back somewhere.  I wish I could see it now.  It might make me feel a little better. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am told that the smallpox jab lasts a lifetime. Derek. Yes or small pox.. I have my vaccination about 30 years ago, I understand that it is no good now.    It could be worse, could be ebola Renee What is anthrax? Anthrax is an acute infectious disease caused by the spore-forming bacterium Bacillus anthracis. Anthrax most commonly occurs in wild and domestic lower vertebrates (cattle, sheep, goats, camels, antelopes, and other herbivores), but it can also occur in humans when they are exposed to infected animals or tissue from infected animals. Why has anthrax become a current issue? Because anthrax is considered to be a potential agent for use in biological warfare, the Department of Defense (DoD) has begun mandatory vaccination of all active duty military personnel who might be involved in conflict. How common is anthrax and who can get it? Anthrax is most common in agricultural regions where it occurs in animals. These include South and Central America, Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, and the Middle East. When anthrax affects humans, it is usually due to an occupational exposure to infected animals or their products. Workers who are exposed to dead animals and animal products from other countries where anthrax is more common may become infected with B. anthracis (industrial anthrax). Anthrax in wild livestock has occurred in the United States. How is anthrax transmitted? Anthrax infection can occur in three forms: cutaneous (skin), inhalation, and gastrointestinal. B. anthracis spores can live in the soil for many years, and humans can become infected with anthrax by handling products from infected animals or by inhaling anthrax spores from contaminated animal products. Anthrax can also be spread by eating undercooked meat from infected animals. It is rare to find infected animals in the United States. What are the symptoms of anthrax? Symptoms of disease vary depending on how the disease was contracted, but symptoms usually occur within 7 days. Cutaneous: Most (about 95%) anthrax infections occur when the bacterium enters a cut or abrasion on the skin, such as when handling contaminated wool, hides, leather or hair products (especially goat hair) of infected animals. Skin infection begins as a raised itchy bump that resembles an insect bite but within 1-2 days develops into a vesicle and then a painless ulcer, usually 1-3 cm in diameter, with a characteristic black necrotic (dying) area in the center. Lymph glands in the adjacent area may swell. About 20% of untreated cases of cutaneous anthrax will result in death. Deaths are rare with appropriate antimicrobial therapy. Inhalation: Initial symptoms may resemble a common cold. After several days, the symptoms may progress to severe breathing problems and shock. Inhalation anthrax is usually fatal. Intestinal: The intestinal disease form of anthrax may follow the consumption of contaminated meat and is characterized by an acute inflammation of the intestinal tract. Initial signs of nausea, loss of appetite, vomiting, fever are followed by abdominal pain, vomiting of blood, and severe diarrhea. Intestinal anthrax results in death in 25% to 60% of cases. Where is anthrax usually found? Anthrax can be found globally. It is more common in developing countries or countries without veterinary public health programs. Certain regions of the world (South and Central America, Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, and the Middle East) report more anthrax in animals than others. Can anthrax be spread from person-to-person? Direct person-to-person spread of anthrax is extremely unlikely to occur. Communicability is not a concern in managing or visiting with patients with inhalational anthrax. Is there a way to prevent infection? In countries where anthrax is common and vaccination levels of animal herds are low, humans should avoid contact with livestock and animal products and avoid eating meat that has not been properly slaughtered and cooked. Also, an anthrax vaccine has been licensed for use in humans. The vaccine is reported to be 93% effective in protecting against anthrax. What is the anthrax vaccine? The anthrax vaccine is manufactured and distributed by BioPort, Corporation, Lansing, Michigan. The vaccine is a cell-free filtrate vaccine, which means it contains no dead or live bacteria in the preparation. The final product contains no more than 2.4 mg of aluminum hydroxide as adjuvant. Anthrax vaccines intended for animals should not be used in humans. Who should get vaccinated against anthrax? The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has recommend anthrax vaccination for the following groups: Persons who work directly with the organism in the laboratory Persons who work with imported animal hides or furs in areas where standards are insufficient to prevent exposure to anthrax spores. Persons who handle potentially infected animal products in high-incidence areas. (Incidence is low in the United States, but veterinarians who travel to work in other countries where incidence is higher should consider being vaccinated.) Military personnel deployed to areas with high risk for exposure to the organism (as when it is used as a biological warfare weapon). The anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program in the U.S. Army Surgeon General’s Office can be reached at 1-877-GETVACC (1-877-438-8222). http://www.anthrax.osd.mil Pregnant women should be vaccinated only if absolutely necessary. What is the protocol for anthrax vaccination? The immunization consists of three subcutaneous injections given 2 weeks apart followed by three additional subcutaneous injections given at 6, 12, and 18 months. Annual booster injections of the vaccine are recommended thereafter. Are there adverse reactions to the anthrax vaccine? Mild local reactions occur in 30% of recipients and consist of slight tenderness and redness at the injection site. Severe local reactions are infrequent and consist of extensive swelling of the forearm in addition to the local reaction. Systemic reactions occur in fewer than 0.2% of recipients. How is anthrax diagnosed? Anthrax is diagnosed by isolating B. anthracis from the blood, skin lesions, or respiratory secretions or by measuring specific antibodies in the blood of persons with suspected cases. Is there a treatment for anthrax? Doctors can prescribe effective antibiotics. To be effective, treatment should be initiated early. If left untreated, the disease can be fatal. Where can I get more information about the recent Department of Defense decision to require men and women in the Armed Services to be vaccinated against anthrax? The Department of Defense recommends that servicemen and women contact their chain of command on questions about the vaccine and its distribution. The anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program in the U.S. Army Surgeon General’s Office can be reached at 1-877-GETVACC (1-877-438-8222). http://www.anthrax.osd.mil If it wasn’t friendly, I wouldn’t even call you. : : : : : : Sorry? … you faded away…. In Angst, Right? I’m sorry too, Dimitri… I’m as sorry as you are, Dimitri.

Response:

Ebola’s too hard…damn near impossible to culture without a very sophisticated lab and requires blood for transmission (yes, those suffering bleed out, but that’s usually in hospital).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     It could be worse, could be ebola Renee What is anthrax? Anthrax is an acute infectious disease caused by the spore-forming bacterium Bacillus anthracis. Anthrax most commonly occurs in wild and domestic lower vertebrates (cattle, sheep, goats, camels, antelopes, and other herbivores), but it can also occur in humans when they are exposed to infected animals or tissue from infected animals. Why has anthrax become a current issue? Because anthrax is considered to be a potential agent for use in biological warfare, the Department of Defense (DoD) has begun mandatory vaccination of all active duty military personnel who might be involved in conflict. How common is anthrax and who can get it? Anthrax is most common in agricultural regions where it occurs in animals. These include South and Central America, Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, and the Middle East. When anthrax affects humans, it is usually due to an occupational exposure to infected animals or their products. Workers who are exposed to dead animals and animal products from other countries where anthrax is more common may become infected with B. anthracis (industrial anthrax). Anthrax in wild livestock has occurred in the United States. How is anthrax transmitted? Anthrax infection can occur in three forms: cutaneous (skin), inhalation, and gastrointestinal. B. anthracis spores can live in the soil for many years, and humans can become infected with anthrax by handling products from infected animals or by inhaling anthrax spores from contaminated animal products. Anthrax can also be spread by eating undercooked meat from infected animals. It is rare to find infected animals in the United States. What are the symptoms of anthrax? Symptoms of disease vary depending on how the disease was contracted, but symptoms usually occur within 7 days. Cutaneous: Most (about 95%) anthrax infections occur when the bacterium enters a cut or abrasion on the skin, such as when handling contaminated wool, hides, leather or hair products (especially goat hair) of infected animals. Skin infection begins as a raised itchy bump that resembles an insect bite but within 1-2 days develops into a vesicle and then a painless ulcer, usually 1-3 cm in diameter, with a characteristic black necrotic (dying) area in the center. Lymph glands in the adjacent area may swell. About 20% of untreated cases of cutaneous anthrax will result in death. Deaths are rare with appropriate antimicrobial therapy. Inhalation: Initial symptoms may resemble a common cold. After several days, the symptoms may progress to severe breathing problems and shock. Inhalation anthrax is usually fatal. Intestinal: The intestinal disease form of anthrax may follow the consumption of contaminated meat and is characterized by an acute inflammation of the intestinal tract. Initial signs of nausea, loss of appetite, vomiting, fever are followed by abdominal pain, vomiting of blood, and severe diarrhea. Intestinal anthrax results in death in 25% to 60% of cases. Where is anthrax usually found? Anthrax can be found globally. It is more common in developing countries or countries without veterinary public health programs. Certain regions of the world (South and Central America, Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, and the Middle East) report more anthrax in animals than others. Can anthrax be spread from person-to-person? Direct person-to-person spread of anthrax is extremely unlikely to occur. Communicability is not a concern in managing or visiting with patients with inhalational anthrax. Is there a way to prevent infection? In countries where anthrax is common and vaccination levels of animal herds are low, humans should avoid contact with livestock and animal products and avoid eating meat that has not been properly slaughtered and cooked. Also, an anthrax vaccine has been licensed for use in humans. The vaccine is reported to be 93% effective in protecting against anthrax. What is the anthrax vaccine? The anthrax vaccine is manufactured and distributed by BioPort, Corporation, Lansing, Michigan. The vaccine is a cell-free filtrate vaccine, which means it contains no dead or live bacteria in the preparation. The final product contains no more than 2.4 mg of aluminum hydroxide as adjuvant. Anthrax vaccines intended for animals should not be used in humans. Who should get vaccinated against anthrax? The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has recommend anthrax vaccination for the following groups: Persons who work directly with the organism in the laboratory Persons who work with imported animal hides or furs in areas where standards are insufficient to prevent exposure to anthrax spores. Persons who handle potentially infected animal products in high-incidence areas. (Incidence is low in the United States, but veterinarians who travel to work in other countries where incidence is higher should consider being vaccinated.) Military personnel deployed to areas with high risk for exposure to the organism (as when it is used as a biological warfare weapon). The anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program in the U.S. Army Surgeon General’s Office can be reached at 1-877-GETVACC (1-877-438-8222). http://www.anthrax.osd.mil Pregnant women should be vaccinated only if absolutely necessary. What is the protocol for anthrax vaccination? The immunization consists of three subcutaneous injections given 2 weeks apart followed by three additional subcutaneous injections given at 6, 12, and 18 months. Annual booster injections of the vaccine are recommended thereafter. Are there adverse reactions to the anthrax vaccine? Mild local reactions occur in 30% of recipients and consist of slight tenderness and redness at the injection site. Severe local reactions are infrequent and consist of extensive swelling of the forearm in addition to the local reaction. Systemic reactions occur in fewer than 0.2% of recipients. How is anthrax diagnosed? Anthrax is diagnosed by isolating B. anthracis from the blood, skin lesions, or respiratory secretions or by measuring specific antibodies in the blood of persons with suspected cases. Is there a treatment for anthrax? Doctors can prescribe effective antibiotics. To be effective, treatment should be initiated early. If left untreated, the disease can be fatal. Where can I get more information about the recent Department of Defense decision to require men and women in the Armed Services to be vaccinated against anthrax? The Department of Defense recommends that servicemen and women contact their chain of command on questions about the vaccine and its distribution. The anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program in the U.S. Army Surgeon General’s Office can be reached at 1-877-GETVACC (1-877-438-8222). http://www.anthrax.osd.mil If it wasn’t friendly, I wouldn’t even call you. : : : : : : Sorry? … you faded away…. In Angst, Right? I’m sorry too, Dimitri… I’m as sorry as you are, Dimitri.

Response:

Yes or small pox.. I have my vaccination about 30 years ago, I understand that it is no good now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    It could be worse, could be ebola Renee What is anthrax? Anthrax is an acute infectious disease caused by the spore-forming bacterium Bacillus anthracis. Anthrax most commonly occurs in wild and domestic lower vertebrates (cattle, sheep, goats, camels, antelopes, and other herbivores), but it can also occur in humans when they are exposed to infected animals or tissue from infected animals. Why has anthrax become a current issue? Because anthrax is considered to be a potential agent for use in biological warfare, the Department of Defense (DoD) has begun mandatory vaccination of all active duty military personnel who might be involved in conflict. How common is anthrax and who can get it? Anthrax is most common in agricultural regions where it occurs in animals. These include South and Central America, Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, and the Middle East. When anthrax affects humans, it is usually due to an occupational exposure to infected animals or their products. Workers who are exposed to dead animals and animal products from other countries where anthrax is more common may become infected with B. anthracis (industrial anthrax). Anthrax in wild livestock has occurred in the United States. How is anthrax transmitted? Anthrax infection can occur in three forms: cutaneous (skin), inhalation, and gastrointestinal. B. anthracis spores can live in the soil for many years, and humans can become infected with anthrax by handling products from infected animals or by inhaling anthrax spores from contaminated animal products. Anthrax can also be spread by eating undercooked meat from infected animals. It is rare to find infected animals in the United States. What are the symptoms of anthrax? Symptoms of disease vary depending on how the disease was contracted, but symptoms usually occur within 7 days. Cutaneous: Most (about 95%) anthrax infections occur when the bacterium enters a cut or abrasion on the skin, such as when handling contaminated wool, hides, leather or hair products (especially goat hair) of infected animals. Skin infection begins as a raised itchy bump that resembles an insect bite but within 1-2 days develops into a vesicle and then a painless ulcer, usually 1-3 cm in diameter, with a characteristic black necrotic (dying) area in the center. Lymph glands in the adjacent area may swell. About 20% of untreated cases of cutaneous anthrax will result in death. Deaths are rare with appropriate antimicrobial therapy. Inhalation: Initial symptoms may resemble a common cold. After several days, the symptoms may progress to severe breathing problems and shock. Inhalation anthrax is usually fatal. Intestinal: The intestinal disease form of anthrax may follow the consumption of contaminated meat and is characterized by an acute inflammation of the intestinal tract. Initial signs of nausea, loss of appetite, vomiting, fever are followed by abdominal pain, vomiting of blood, and severe diarrhea. Intestinal anthrax results in death in 25% to 60% of cases. Where is anthrax usually found? Anthrax can be found globally. It is more common in developing countries or countries without veterinary public health programs. Certain regions of the world (South and Central America, Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, and the Middle East) report more anthrax in animals than others. Can anthrax be spread from person-to-person? Direct person-to-person spread of anthrax is extremely unlikely to occur. Communicability is not a concern in managing or visiting with patients with inhalational anthrax. Is there a way to prevent infection? In countries where anthrax is common and vaccination levels of animal herds are low, humans should avoid contact with livestock and animal products and avoid eating meat that has not been properly slaughtered and cooked. Also, an anthrax vaccine has been licensed for use in humans. The vaccine is reported to be 93% effective in protecting against anthrax. What is the anthrax vaccine? The anthrax vaccine is manufactured and distributed by BioPort, Corporation, Lansing, Michigan. The vaccine is a cell-free filtrate vaccine, which means it contains no dead or live bacteria in the preparation. The final product contains no more than 2.4 mg of aluminum hydroxide as adjuvant. Anthrax vaccines intended for animals should not be used in humans. Who should get vaccinated against anthrax? The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has recommend anthrax vaccination for the following groups: Persons who work directly with the organism in the laboratory Persons who work with imported animal hides or furs in areas where standards are insufficient to prevent exposure to anthrax spores. Persons who handle potentially infected animal products in high-incidence areas. (Incidence is low in the United States, but veterinarians who travel to work in other countries where incidence is higher should consider being vaccinated.) Military personnel deployed to areas with high risk for exposure to the organism (as when it is used as a biological warfare weapon). The anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program in the U.S. Army Surgeon General’s Office can be reached at 1-877-GETVACC (1-877-438-8222). http://www.anthrax.osd.mil Pregnant women should be vaccinated only if absolutely necessary. What is the protocol for anthrax vaccination? The immunization consists of three subcutaneous injections given 2 weeks apart followed by three additional subcutaneous injections given at 6, 12, and 18 months. Annual booster injections of the vaccine are recommended thereafter. Are there adverse reactions to the anthrax vaccine? Mild local reactions occur in 30% of recipients and consist of slight tenderness and redness at the injection site. Severe local reactions are infrequent and consist of extensive swelling of the forearm in addition to the local reaction. Systemic reactions occur in fewer than 0.2% of recipients. How is anthrax diagnosed? Anthrax is diagnosed by isolating B. anthracis from the blood, skin lesions, or respiratory secretions or by measuring specific antibodies in the blood of persons with suspected cases. Is there a treatment for anthrax? Doctors can prescribe effective antibiotics. To be effective, treatment should be initiated early. If left untreated, the disease can be fatal. Where can I get more information about the recent Department of Defense decision to require men and women in the Armed Services to be vaccinated against anthrax? The Department of Defense recommends that servicemen and women contact their chain of command on questions about the vaccine and its distribution. The anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program in the U.S. Army Surgeon General’s Office can be reached at 1-877-GETVACC (1-877-438-8222). http://www.anthrax.osd.mil If it wasn’t friendly, I wouldn’t even call you. : : : : : : Sorry? … you faded away…. In Angst, Right? I’m sorry too, Dimitri… I’m as sorry as you are, Dimitri.

Response:

I am told that the smallpox jab lasts a lifetime. Derek.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes or small pox.. I have my vaccination about 30 years ago, I understand that it is no good now.    It could be worse, could be ebola Renee What is anthrax? Anthrax is an acute infectious disease caused by the spore-forming bacterium Bacillus anthracis. Anthrax most commonly occurs in wild and domestic lower vertebrates (cattle, sheep, goats, camels, antelopes, and other herbivores), but it can also occur in humans when they are exposed to infected animals or tissue from infected animals. Why has anthrax become a current issue? Because anthrax is considered to be a potential agent for use in biological warfare, the Department of Defense (DoD) has begun mandatory vaccination of all active duty military personnel who might be involved in conflict. How common is anthrax and who can get it? Anthrax is most common in agricultural regions where it occurs in animals. These include South and Central America, Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, and the Middle East. When anthrax affects humans, it is usually due to an occupational exposure to infected animals or their products. Workers who are exposed to dead animals and animal products from other countries where anthrax is more common may become infected with B. anthracis (industrial anthrax). Anthrax in wild livestock has occurred in the United States. How is anthrax transmitted? Anthrax infection can occur in three forms: cutaneous (skin), inhalation, and gastrointestinal. B. anthracis spores can live in the soil for many years, and humans can become infected with anthrax by handling products from infected animals or by inhaling anthrax spores from contaminated animal products. Anthrax can also be spread by eating undercooked meat from infected animals. It is rare to find infected animals in the United States. What are the symptoms of anthrax? Symptoms of disease vary depending on how the disease was contracted, but symptoms usually occur within 7 days. Cutaneous: Most (about 95%) anthrax infections occur when the bacterium enters a cut or abrasion on the skin, such as when handling contaminated wool, hides, leather or hair products (especially goat hair) of infected animals. Skin infection begins as a raised itchy bump that resembles an insect bite but within 1-2 days develops into a vesicle and then a painless ulcer, usually 1-3 cm in diameter, with a characteristic black necrotic (dying) area in the center. Lymph glands in the adjacent area may swell. About 20% of untreated cases of cutaneous anthrax will result in death. Deaths are rare with appropriate antimicrobial therapy. Inhalation: Initial symptoms may resemble a common cold. After several days, the symptoms may progress to severe breathing problems and shock. Inhalation anthrax is usually fatal. Intestinal: The intestinal disease form of anthrax may follow the consumption of contaminated meat and is characterized by an acute inflammation of the intestinal tract. Initial signs of nausea, loss of appetite, vomiting, fever are followed by abdominal pain, vomiting of blood, and severe diarrhea. Intestinal anthrax results in death in 25% to 60% of cases. Where is anthrax usually found? Anthrax can be found globally. It is more common in developing countries or countries without veterinary public health programs. Certain regions of the world (South and Central America, Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, and the Middle East) report more anthrax in animals than others. Can anthrax be spread from person-to-person? Direct person-to-person spread of anthrax is extremely unlikely to occur. Communicability is not a concern in managing or visiting with patients with inhalational anthrax. Is there a way to prevent infection? In countries where anthrax is common and vaccination levels of animal herds are low, humans should avoid contact with livestock and animal products and avoid eating meat that has not been properly slaughtered and cooked. Also, an anthrax vaccine has been licensed for use in humans. The vaccine is reported to be 93% effective in protecting against anthrax. What is the anthrax vaccine? The anthrax vaccine is manufactured and distributed by BioPort, Corporation, Lansing, Michigan. The vaccine is a cell-free filtrate vaccine, which means it contains no dead or live bacteria in the preparation. The final product contains no more than 2.4 mg of aluminum hydroxide as adjuvant. Anthrax vaccines intended for animals should not be used in humans. Who should get vaccinated against anthrax? The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has recommend anthrax vaccination for the following groups: Persons who work directly with the organism in the laboratory Persons who work with imported animal hides or furs in areas where standards are insufficient to prevent exposure to anthrax spores. Persons who handle potentially infected animal products in high-incidence areas. (Incidence is low in the United States, but veterinarians who travel to work in other countries where incidence is higher should consider being vaccinated.) Military personnel deployed to areas with high risk for exposure to the organism (as when it is used as a biological warfare weapon). The anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program in the U.S. Army Surgeon General’s Office can be reached at 1-877-GETVACC (1-877-438-8222). http://www.anthrax.osd.mil Pregnant women should be vaccinated only if absolutely necessary. What is the protocol for anthrax vaccination? The immunization consists of three subcutaneous injections given 2 weeks apart followed by three additional subcutaneous injections given at 6, 12, and 18 months. Annual booster injections of the vaccine are recommended thereafter. Are there adverse reactions to the anthrax vaccine? Mild local reactions occur in 30% of recipients and consist of slight tenderness and redness at the injection site. Severe local reactions are infrequent and consist of extensive swelling of the forearm in addition to the local reaction. Systemic reactions occur in fewer than 0.2% of recipients. How is anthrax diagnosed? Anthrax is diagnosed by isolating B. anthracis from the blood, skin lesions, or respiratory secretions or by measuring specific antibodies in the blood of persons with suspected cases. Is there a treatment for anthrax? Doctors can prescribe effective antibiotics. To be effective, treatment should be initiated early. If left untreated, the disease can be fatal. Where can I get more information about the recent Department of Defense decision to require men and women in the Armed Services to be vaccinated against anthrax? The Department of Defense recommends that servicemen and women contact their chain of command on questions about the vaccine and its distribution. The anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program in the U.S. Army Surgeon General’s Office can be reached at 1-877-GETVACC (1-877-438-8222). http://www.anthrax.osd.mil If it wasn’t friendly, I wouldn’t even call you. : : : : : : Sorry? … you faded away…. In Angst, Right? I’m sorry too, Dimitri… I’m as sorry as you are, Dimitri.

Response:

WHAM!!!  Jessa Got Hit By Fren Lie Phire, Suh Massuh, Suh! Ouch, hot lead in ass feels truly numb, suh, yassuh suh! Bleu, Blanc, et Rouge….. rmg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Pam Sarry"  wrote… Watch out for friendly fire

Response:

"Pam Sarry" < wrote … What is anthrax?

Anthrax is an Anachronism.

Response:

"Pam Sarry" < wrote … What is anthrax? Anthrax is an Anachronism.

From the wild west

Response:

Sheep fuck Sheep. Real Men Fuck Phire Hydrants rmg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Pam Sarry" < wrote … What is anthrax? Anthrax is an Anachronism. From the wild west

Response:

Have you been to Montana where the men are men and the sheep are scared? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sheep fuck Sheep. Real Men Fuck Phire Hydrants rmg "Pam Sarry" < wrote … What is anthrax? Anthrax is an Anachronism. From the wild west

Response:

    It could be worse, could be ebola Renee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is anthrax? Anthrax is an acute infectious disease caused by the spore-forming bacterium Bacillus anthracis. Anthrax most commonly occurs in wild and domestic lower vertebrates (cattle, sheep, goats, camels, antelopes, and other herbivores), but it can also occur in humans when they are exposed to infected animals or tissue from infected animals. Why has anthrax become a current issue? Because anthrax is considered to be a potential agent for use in biological warfare, the Department of Defense (DoD) has begun mandatory vaccination of all active duty military personnel who might be involved in conflict. How common is anthrax and who can get it? Anthrax is most common in agricultural regions where it occurs in animals. These include South and Central America, Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, and the Middle East. When anthrax affects humans, it is usually due to an occupational exposure to infected animals or their products. Workers who are exposed to dead animals and animal products from other countries where anthrax is more common may become infected with B. anthracis (industrial anthrax). Anthrax in wild livestock has occurred in the United States. How is anthrax transmitted? Anthrax infection can occur in three forms: cutaneous (skin), inhalation, and gastrointestinal. B. anthracis spores can live in the soil for many years, and humans can become infected with anthrax by handling products from infected animals or by inhaling anthrax spores from contaminated animal products. Anthrax can also be spread by eating undercooked meat from infected animals. It is rare to find infected animals in the United States. What are the symptoms of anthrax? Symptoms of disease vary depending on how the disease was contracted, but symptoms usually occur within 7 days. Cutaneous: Most (about 95%) anthrax infections occur when the bacterium enters a cut or abrasion on the skin, such as when handling contaminated wool, hides, leather or hair products (especially goat hair) of infected animals. Skin infection begins as a raised itchy bump that resembles an insect bite but within 1-2 days develops into a vesicle and then a painless ulcer, usually 1-3 cm in diameter, with a characteristic black necrotic (dying) area in the center. Lymph glands in the adjacent area may swell. About 20% of untreated cases of cutaneous anthrax will result in death. Deaths are rare with appropriate antimicrobial therapy. Inhalation: Initial symptoms may resemble a common cold. After several days, the symptoms may progress to severe breathing problems and shock. Inhalation anthrax is usually fatal. Intestinal: The intestinal disease form of anthrax may follow the consumption of contaminated meat and is characterized by an acute inflammation of the intestinal tract. Initial signs of nausea, loss of appetite, vomiting, fever are followed by abdominal pain, vomiting of blood, and severe diarrhea. Intestinal anthrax results in death in 25% to 60% of cases. Where is anthrax usually found? Anthrax can be found globally. It is more common in developing countries or countries without veterinary public health programs. Certain regions of the world (South and Central America, Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, and the Middle East) report more anthrax in animals than others. Can anthrax be spread from person-to-person? Direct person-to-person spread of anthrax is extremely unlikely to occur. Communicability is not a concern in managing or visiting with patients with inhalational anthrax. Is there a way to prevent infection? In countries where anthrax is common and vaccination levels of animal herds are low, humans should avoid contact with livestock and animal products and avoid eating meat that has not been properly slaughtered and cooked. Also, an anthrax vaccine has been licensed for use in humans. The vaccine is reported to be 93% effective in protecting against anthrax. What is the anthrax vaccine? The anthrax vaccine is manufactured and distributed by BioPort, Corporation, Lansing, Michigan. The vaccine is a cell-free filtrate vaccine, which means it contains no dead or live bacteria in the preparation. The final product contains no more than 2.4 mg of aluminum hydroxide as adjuvant. Anthrax vaccines intended for animals should not be used in humans. Who should get vaccinated against anthrax? The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has recommend anthrax vaccination for the following groups: Persons who work directly with the organism in the laboratory Persons who work with imported animal hides or furs in areas where standards are insufficient to prevent exposure to anthrax spores. Persons who handle potentially infected animal products in high-incidence areas. (Incidence is low in the United States, but veterinarians who travel to work in other countries where incidence is higher should consider being vaccinated.) Military personnel deployed to areas with high risk for exposure to the organism (as when it is used as a biological warfare weapon). The anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program in the U.S. Army Surgeon General’s Office can be reached at 1-877-GETVACC (1-877-438-8222). http://www.anthrax.osd.mil Pregnant women should be vaccinated only if absolutely necessary. What is the protocol for anthrax vaccination? The immunization consists of three subcutaneous injections given 2 weeks apart followed by three additional subcutaneous injections given at 6, 12, and 18 months. Annual booster injections of the vaccine are recommended thereafter. Are there adverse reactions to the anthrax vaccine? Mild local reactions occur in 30% of recipients and consist of slight tenderness and redness at the injection site. Severe local reactions are infrequent and consist of extensive swelling of the forearm in addition to the local reaction. Systemic reactions occur in fewer than 0.2% of recipients. How is anthrax diagnosed? Anthrax is diagnosed by isolating B. anthracis from the blood, skin lesions, or respiratory secretions or by measuring specific antibodies in the blood of persons with suspected cases. Is there a treatment for anthrax? Doctors can prescribe effective antibiotics. To be effective, treatment should be initiated early. If left untreated, the disease can be fatal. Where can I get more information about the recent Department of Defense decision to require men and women in the Armed Services to be vaccinated against anthrax? The Department of Defense recommends that servicemen and women contact their chain of command on questions about the vaccine and its distribution. The anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program in the U.S. Army Surgeon General’s Office can be reached at 1-877-GETVACC (1-877-438-8222). http://www.anthrax.osd.mil If it wasn’t friendly, I wouldn’t even call you. : : : : : : Sorry? … you faded away…. In Angst, Right? I’m sorry too, Dimitri… I’m as sorry as you are, Dimitri.

Response:

What is anthrax? Anthrax is an acute infectious disease caused by the spore-forming bacterium Bacillus anthracis. Anthrax most commonly occurs in wild and domestic lower vertebrates (cattle, sheep, goats, camels, antelopes, and other herbivores), but it can also occur in humans when they are exposed to infected animals or tissue from infected animals. Why has anthrax become a current issue? Because anthrax is considered to be a potential agent for use in biological warfare, the Department of Defense (DoD) has begun mandatory vaccination of all active duty military personnel who might be involved in conflict. How common is anthrax and who can get it? Anthrax is most common in agricultural regions where it occurs in animals. These include South and Central America, Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, and the Middle East. When anthrax affects humans, it is usually due to an occupational exposure to infected animals or their products. Workers who are exposed to dead animals and animal products from other countries where anthrax is more common may become infected with B. anthracis (industrial anthrax). Anthrax in wild livestock has occurred in the United States. How is anthrax transmitted? Anthrax infection can occur in three forms: cutaneous (skin), inhalation, and gastrointestinal. B. anthracis spores can live in the soil for many years, and humans can become infected with anthrax by handling products from infected animals or by inhaling anthrax spores from contaminated animal products. Anthrax can also be spread by eating undercooked meat from infected animals. It is rare to find infected animals in the United States. What are the symptoms of anthrax? Symptoms of disease vary depending on how the disease was contracted, but symptoms usually occur within 7 days. Cutaneous: Most (about 95%) anthrax infections occur when the bacterium enters a cut or abrasion on the skin, such as when handling contaminated wool, hides, leather or hair products (especially goat hair) of infected animals. Skin infection begins as a raised itchy bump that resembles an insect bite but within 1-2 days develops into a vesicle and then a painless ulcer, usually 1-3 cm in diameter, with a characteristic black necrotic (dying) area in the center. Lymph glands in the adjacent area may swell. About 20% of untreated cases of cutaneous anthrax will result in death. Deaths are rare with appropriate antimicrobial therapy. Inhalation: Initial symptoms may resemble a common cold. After several days, the symptoms may progress to severe breathing problems and shock. Inhalation anthrax is usually fatal. Intestinal: The intestinal disease form of anthrax may follow the consumption of contaminated meat and is characterized by an acute inflammation of the intestinal tract. Initial signs of nausea, loss of appetite, vomiting, fever are followed by abdominal pain, vomiting of blood, and severe diarrhea. Intestinal anthrax results in death in 25% to 60% of cases. Where is anthrax usually found? Anthrax can be found globally. It is more common in developing countries or countries without veterinary public health programs. Certain regions of the world (South and Central America, Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, and the Middle East) report more anthrax in animals than others. Can anthrax be spread from person-to-person? Direct person-to-person spread of anthrax is extremely unlikely to occur. Communicability is not a concern in managing or visiting with patients with inhalational anthrax. Is there a way to prevent infection? In countries where anthrax is common and vaccination levels of animal herds are low, humans should avoid contact with livestock and animal products and avoid eating meat that has not been properly slaughtered and cooked. Also, an anthrax vaccine has been licensed for use in humans. The vaccine is reported to be 93% effective in protecting against anthrax. What is the anthrax vaccine? The anthrax vaccine is manufactured and distributed by BioPort, Corporation, Lansing, Michigan. The vaccine is a cell-free filtrate vaccine, which means it contains no dead or live bacteria in the preparation. The final product contains no more than 2.4 mg of aluminum hydroxide as adjuvant. Anthrax vaccines intended for animals should not be used in humans. Who should get vaccinated against anthrax? The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has recommend anthrax vaccination for the following groups: Persons who work directly with the organism in the laboratory Persons who work with imported animal hides or furs in areas where standards are insufficient to prevent exposure to anthrax spores. Persons who handle potentially infected animal products in high-incidence areas. (Incidence is low in the United States, but veterinarians who travel to work in other countries where incidence is higher should consider being vaccinated.) Military personnel deployed to areas with high risk for exposure to the organism (as when it is used as a biological warfare weapon). The anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program in the U.S. Army Surgeon General’s Office can be reached at 1-877-GETVACC (1-877-438-8222). http://www.anthrax.osd.mil Pregnant women should be vaccinated only if absolutely necessary. What is the protocol for anthrax vaccination? The immunization consists of three subcutaneous injections given 2 weeks apart followed by three additional subcutaneous injections given at 6, 12, and 18 months. Annual booster injections of the vaccine are recommended thereafter. Are there adverse reactions to the anthrax vaccine? Mild local reactions occur in 30% of recipients and consist of slight tenderness and redness at the injection site. Severe local reactions are infrequent and consist of extensive swelling of the forearm in addition to the local reaction. Systemic reactions occur in fewer than 0.2% of recipients. How is anthrax diagnosed? Anthrax is diagnosed by isolating B. anthracis from the blood, skin lesions, or respiratory secretions or by measuring specific antibodies in the blood of persons with suspected cases. Is there a treatment for anthrax? Doctors can prescribe effective antibiotics. To be effective, treatment should be initiated early. If left untreated, the disease can be fatal. Where can I get more information about the recent Department of Defense decision to require men and women in the Armed Services to be vaccinated against anthrax? The Department of Defense recommends that servicemen and women contact their chain of command on questions about the vaccine and its distribution. The anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program in the U.S. Army Surgeon General’s Office can be reached at 1-877-GETVACC (1-877-438-8222). http://www.anthrax.osd.mil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If it wasn’t friendly, I wouldn’t even call you. : : : : : : Sorry? … you faded away…. In Angst, Right? I’m sorry too, Dimitri… I’m as sorry as you are, Dimitri.

Response:

If it wasn’t friendly, I wouldn’t even call you. : : : : : : Sorry? … you faded away…. In Angst, Right? I’m sorry too, Dimitri… I’m as sorry as you are, Dimitri.

Response:

Watch out for friendly fire – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If it wasn’t friendly, I wouldn’t even call you. : : : : : : Sorry? … you faded away…. In Angst, Right? I’m sorry too, Dimitri… I’m as sorry as you are, Dimitri.

Response:

Question:

The last time my wife went to my acupuncturist he referred her to a standard testing facility so that she could have a blood and urine work-up.  Anyone with access to a testing facility can request these tests.  They are not exclusive to the medical profession. Martin

of course they aren’t. but are acupuncturists trained to read lab reports that aren’t cloaked in "didactic" terminology? and what if something IS found in the lab work? then the patient needs to go to the conventional MD anyway—-the acupuncturists really cannot cure/treat very much, after all. if you disagree, please point out which illnesses/diseases that you feel acupuncture cures/treats with any remarkable efficiacy. imho, going to the acupuncturist FIRST for a diagnosis is not very efficient–your doubling your time and money expenditures. and even after seeing a conventional doctor for a diagnosis, exactly what can an acupuncturist do other than mask pain symptoms thru some unknown mechanism?? — Red meat is NOT bad for you. Now blue-green meat, THAT’S bad for you! Tommy Smothers considering acupuncture? read this:  http://skepdic.com/acupunc.html thinking of consulting a psychologist? read this: http://skepdic.com/psych.html

Response:

But comparing adverse drug reactions to acupuncture is comparing apples to oranges. Acupuncture doesn’t deal with life threatening conditions and disorders. I think it’s much more applicable to compare something like homeopathy to acupuncture instead. frank

Actually, I disagree, at least in the case of anti-depressants.  Acupuncture can treat severe PMS, and with a fairly high degree of efficacy. Anti-depressants are often prescribed for PMS. Apples and apples in that case. BL

Response:

There is some validity to your apples vs. oranges viewpoint, as most people probably don’t go to an acupuncturist for a life threatening condition. However, the intention of my post was not to draw comparisons between one practice and another.  It was intended to put certain statistics, assuming the validity of those statistics, into perspective.  But, you also bring up an interesting question.  On a day to day basis, are most drugs prescribed for life threatening conditions?  I’m sure it could be argued that the majority are not.  One of the most widely prescribed drugs in the world is the SSRI, Prozac, which is prescribed for the symptoms of depression as most drugs are prescribed to treat symptoms and not the disease itself.  Most would argue that the condition of depression is not life threatening. Acupuncturists, as well as other alternative health practitioners such as homeopaths, as I understand it, are attempting to handle one or many underlying conditions responsible for what could some day become a life-threatening disease.  This, I feel lends even more validity to their practice – not less.  A patient that is asymptomatic is not necessarily healthy, I think we can agree on that.  Yet it is the symptoms which generally send a person running off to a doctor. More importantly, however, I was addressing those alarmists out there who seem to get off on scaring the general population with opinions and half-facts.  People who might otherwise benefit from alternative practices referred to by those alarmists as "quackery" are done a great disservice. This is a point dear to me, as I have seen many benefit immensely from these practices, including myself.  As such, I resent those that would deny people the help available to them in the interest of serving their own agenda and their own fragile egos.  Especially when they attempt to enshroud their ill-intentions with the insincere flavor of "concern".  They are the snipers, lurking in the shadows.  They offer little of benefit to anyone. Martin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess no one is willing to address my main point.  It is far easier to engage in petty squabbles.  That there is inherent risk in any treatment, and that there are health practitioners in every field that are less competent than others was my point.  I guess the frightening numbers I referenced in my post were just too overwhelming to confront. Amazing. First of all, I think the safety of acupuncture is a non-issue. But any invasive therapy has inherent risks. But comparing adverse drug reactions to acupuncture is comparing apples to oranges. Acupuncture doesn’t deal with life threatening conditions and disorders. I think it’s much more applicable to compare something like homeopathy to acupuncture instead. frank

Response:

The last time my wife went to my acupuncturist he referred her to a standard testing facility so that she could have a blood and urine work-up.  Anyone with access to a testing facility can request these tests.  They are not exclusive to the medical profession. Martin

Sure, anyone can ask for testing. But, if you’re not medically trained how can you decide which tests to ask for and what do the results of such testing mean? Selecting and interpreting valid tests is not a straightforward task. — Robert Bronsing User: bronsing of Dept ANAT

Response:

because i DO disagree with you when you say that it ‘doesn’t do any harm’ for those who refuse conventional treatment…..and that there "is no delaying of treatment until it is too late." there is prolly a whole lot more of this sort of thing  (substitution of acupuncture for competent conventional care) going on than there are folks refusing cancer treatments and heading over to see hulda.

It seems you are disagreeing with my point because you somehow got the idea that I think refusing conventional treatment doesn’t do any harm.  I never said that, because of course it probably does.  I said that if the patient is refusing treatment anyway (treatments which might have a good chance of helping them), where is the harm with their using acupuncture?  It is their choice not to seek appropriate treatment that is harmful, not the acupuncture.  Ditto for delay of treatment.  *That* choice, not the choice to utilize acupuncture is what will hurt the patient.  Acupuncture can be used whether the patient chooses to go for conventional treatment or decides to let Nature/vitamins/nothing help them. Only if acupuncturists claim to have the "cure for all diseases" & encourage patients to forgo effective treatment for whatever their condition would I see the harm.  Otherwise, acupuncture’s use is an adjunct to whatever treatment the patient has decided to follow (or not). The question isn’t whether a patient’s choice of treatment is harmful, just if the use of acupuncture is.  Its risks are minimal. Michele

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Great point. It’s ironic, considering the criticism of alternative health practitioners by medical doctors that the benefit of these procedures would not be available to everyone.  That position would seem extremely self-serving and supremely arrogant.  Unfortunately, the alternative health groups are ill-equipped to fight it out over such issues.  Although they are gaining ground, they still have neither sufficient political clout, nor the monetary resources to fund such political clout. I must be careful though, as I might be cast into that bin with the dreaded conspiracy theorists. Martin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The last time my wife went to my acupuncturist he referred her to a standard testing facility so that she could have a blood and urine work-up.  Anyone with access to a testing facility can request these tests.  They are not exclusive to the medical profession. It depends on the state where you live.  Here they have these really freaky rules about doctors ordering the tests and the patient can’t even get the results.  This is really obnoxious in my view.  It’s my money and it is MY BLOOD.  Give me a friggin’ break…… BL

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What evidence do you have for the high degree of efficacy for acupuncture in the treatment of PMS?? Anecdotes may be a good starting point but one must be cautious before asserting a "high degree of efficacy" in the absence of RCT’s.

Reported to me by my acupuncturists. I believe them. This is the "alternative" newsgroup remember. BL

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The last time my wife went to my acupuncturist he referred her to a standard testing facility so that she could have a blood and urine work-up.  Anyone with access to a testing facility can request these tests.  They are not exclusive to the medical profession.

It depends on the state where you live.  Here they have these really freaky rules about doctors ordering the tests and the patient can’t even get the results.  This is really obnoxious in my view.  It’s my money and it is MY BLOOD.  Give me a friggin’ break…… BL

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The last time my wife went to my acupuncturist he referred her to a standard testing facility so that she could have a blood and urine work-up.  Anyone with access to a testing facility can request these tests.  They are not exclusive to the medical profession. Martin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – no "don’t do what your M.D. told you because I can cure you of all diseases" stuff, no delaying life & death treatment until it’s too late. Michele acupuncturists don’t have the diagnostic capabilities/training (nor the access to the diagnostic resources that conventional doctors have–blood tests, urine tests, etc) and their diagnostic measures are somewhat…well, primitive for lack of a better word. if you have already BEEN to a conventional doctor, gotten your diagnosis and are satisfied that other treatment methods aren’t working or will not work, and have talked with him/her about trying acupuncture for the problem and they think it’s ok to do so, i say go for it. whatever helps the patient think they are helping themselves is a good thing, imho. if you are having some sort of problem and do go to an acupuncturist *instead of* a conventional MD, there is a HUGE chance that what fred/michele is saying won’t happen here will indeed happen. as far as it not costing an arm and a leg, i wouldn’t be too sure about that. from what i have read, acupuncture rarely, if ever, works long term (or for any useful length of time) after only one or two visits. ie, for pain relief, it isn’t **treating the root of the problem.** it is just relieving some symptom or other (through some unknown mechanism–placebo, counter irritant, endorphin levels–none of these theories have been reproduced or proven to be true in human trials) acupuncturists need to make a living, after all, just like any other sort out there who charges for their time. the more often they can get you to come back, the more money they will — Red meat is NOT bad for you. Now blue-green meat, THAT’S bad for you! Tommy Smothers considering acupuncture? read this:  http://skepdic.com/acupunc.html thinking of consulting a psychologist? read this: http://skepdic.com/psych.html

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I guess no one is willing to address my main point.  It is far easier to engage in petty squabbles.  That there is inherent risk in any treatment, and that there are health practitioners in every field that are less competent than others was my point.  I guess the frightening numbers I referenced in my post were just too overwhelming to confront. Amazing.

First of all, I think the safety of acupuncture is a non-issue. But any invasive therapy has inherent risks. But comparing adverse drug reactions to acupuncture is comparing apples to oranges. Acupuncture doesn’t deal with life threatening conditions and disorders. I think it’s much more applicable to compare something like homeopathy to acupuncture instead. frank

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<"if you are having some sort of problem and do go to an acupuncturist *instead of* a conventional MD, there is a HUGE chance that what fred/michele is saying won’t happen here will indeed happen"

If you had read & quoted my entire post, you would have seen that I hold the same position regarding the possibility of harm that you do.

my point was regarding your specific statement : can be combined with just about any conventional treatment plan with no contradictions, no "don’t do what your M.D. told you because I can cure you of all diseases" stuff, no delaying life & death treatment until it’s too late.**

since i was only addressing that point, i snipped the rest. I said that acupuncture combined with conventional treatment is great. And for those who refuse to seek conventional treatment (& nobody should be *forced* to do so, agreed?) — including the diagnostic studies — it doesn’t do any harm.  Why bother to disagree when we really don’t?

because i DO disagree with you when you say that it ‘doesn’t do any harm’ for those who refuse conventional treatment…..and that there "is no delaying of treatment until it is too late." there is prolly a whole lot more of this sort of thing  (substitution of acupuncture for competent conventional care) going on than there are folks refusing cancer treatments and heading over to see hulda. sure, maybe not for cancer, but there are so many more insidious illnesses that can end up being deadly if misdiagnosed/mistreated. (diabetes, heart disease etc) — Red meat is NOT bad for you. Now blue-green meat, THAT’S bad for you! Tommy Smothers considering acupuncture? read this:  http://skepdic.com/acupunc.html thinking of consulting a psychologist? read this: http://skepdic.com/psych.html

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I guess no one is willing to address my main point.  It is far easier to engage in petty squabbles.  That there is inherent risk in any treatment, and that there are health practitioners in every field that are less competent than others was my point.  I guess the frightening numbers I referenced in my post were just too overwhelming to confront. Amazing. Martin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah, I guess I was real lucky to avoid this one– "26 cases of intentionally embedded needle " I suggest that anyone going to an acupuncturist avoid one that is likely to do What the???? BL

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<"if you are having some sort of problem and do go to an acupuncturist *instead of* a conventional MD, there is a HUGE chance that what fred/michele is saying won’t happen here will indeed happen." If you had read & quoted my entire post, you would have seen that I hold the same position regarding the possibility of harm that you do. ** The great thing about acupuncture from almost anybody’s viewpoint is how it can fit into any philosophy of health care.  For those who adamantly refuse conventional treatments, medications, etc. acupuncture is an economical form of alternative health care with very little chance of harm.  In other words, beneficial or not (not the debate at this point — its efficacy isn’t the question, it’s only safety being discussed) there is *miniscule* risk of any harm & the patient doesn’t pay an arm & a leg for it.  For conventional health care believers, acupuncture also holds miniscule risk of harm, is economical, & there is the fact that it can be combined with just about any conventional treatment plan with no contradictions, no "don’t do what your M.D. told you because I can cure you of all diseases" stuff, no delaying life & death treatment until it’s too late.** I said that acupuncture combined with conventional treatment is great.  And for those who refuse to seek conventional treatment (& nobody should be *forced* to do so, agreed?) — including the diagnostic studies — it doesn’t do any harm.  Why bother to disagree when we really don’t? Michele

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The great thing about acupuncture from almost anybody’s viewpoint is how it can fit into any philosophy of health care.  For those who adamantly refuse conventional treatments, medications, etc. acupuncture is an economical form of alternative health care with very little chance of harm.  In other words, beneficial or not (not the debate at this point — its efficacy isn’t the question, it’s only safety being discussed) there is *miniscule* risk of any harm & the patient doesn’t pay an arm & a leg for it.  For conventional health care believers, acupuncture also holds miniscule risk of harm, is economical, & there is the fact that it can be combined with just about any conventional treatment plan with no contradictions, no "don’t do what your M.D. told you because I can cure you of all diseases" stuff, no delaying life & death treatment until it’s too late. Michele

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Yeah, I guess I was real lucky to avoid this one– "26 cases of intentionally embedded needle " I suggest that anyone going to an acupuncturist avoid one that is likely to do What the???? BL

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no "don’t do what your M.D. told you because I can cure you of all diseases" stuff, no delaying life & death treatment until it’s too late. Michele

acupuncturists don’t have the diagnostic capabilities/training (nor the access to the diagnostic resources that conventional doctors have–blood tests, urine tests, etc) and their diagnostic measures are somewhat…well, primitive for lack of a better word. if you have already BEEN to a conventional doctor, gotten your diagnosis and are satisfied that other treatment methods aren’t working or will not work, and have talked with him/her about trying acupuncture for the problem and they think it’s ok to do so, i say go for it. whatever helps the patient think they are helping themselves is a good thing, imho. if you are having some sort of problem and do go to an acupuncturist *instead of* a conventional MD, there is a HUGE chance that what fred/michele is saying won’t happen here will indeed happen. as far as it not costing an arm and a leg, i wouldn’t be too sure about that. from what i have read, acupuncture rarely, if ever, works long term (or for any useful length of time) after only one or two visits. ie, for pain relief, it isn’t **treating the root of the problem.** it is just relieving some symptom or other (through some unknown mechanism–placebo, counter irritant, endorphin levels–none of these theories have been reproduced or proven to be true in human trials) acupuncturists need to make a living, after all, just like any other sort out there who charges for their time. the more often they can get you to come back, the more money they will — Red meat is NOT bad for you. Now blue-green meat, THAT’S bad for you! Tommy Smothers considering acupuncture? read this:  http://skepdic.com/acupunc.html thinking of consulting a psychologist? read this: http://skepdic.com/psych.html

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Unmitigated Gall Let’s talk about "Adverse Effects".  Let’s assume that there are acupuncturists out there that are less than competent.  I’m sure even acupuncturists themselves will admit that.  I and many people have benefited greatly from the work of the competent ones.  I’m sure that the statistical numbers supporting the benefits far out weigh the risks.  But let’s really talk about "Adverse Effects". The April 15, 1998 Journal of the American Medical Association reported that there are more than 2,000,000 drug "reactions annually in the United States, and that more than 100,000 of those reactions are fatal.  By their own disclosure, the AMA is admitting to prescription drugs being the fourth leading cause of death in America.  I suspect the reality is actually much worse because: a)  These numbers only count drugs prescribed correctly and in the right dose. b)  Not included are patients who are given the wrong drugs, or are given those drugs at the wrong dosage or in the wrong combination. c)  These numbers do not include the patients who have fatal reactions to the drugs, but whose deaths are mistakenly attributed to other causes. d)  Nor do these numbers include the patients whose death is deliberately obscured to protect the physicians and hospitals involved.      Add in these numbers , and you find that deaths from adverse reactions to drugs may number as high as 700,000 a year.  (Actually the FDA estimates that only 1% of all adverse reactions are reported).  But let’s give the FDA even more leeway by stipulating to only 10%. Add all this up and it could be argued that prescription drugs and the modern medical paradigm, despite all its accomplishments, is arguably the single leading cause of death in the United States.(1) This is not an attack on medical doctors.  I believe the vast majority are extremely competent, highly dedicated and even often heroic.  I’m sure John Wayne Bobbit’s decision to consult a surgeon rather than an herbalist, we would agree, was a very sound one.  But, the reason discussion groups such as this are here, is because when it comes to disease, the modern medical methodologies of managing symptoms have failed, and some would argue, miserably so. I’ll take my chances with an acupuncturist any day. Martin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Complement Ther Med 2001 Jun;9(2):98-104 Yamashita H, Tsukayama H, White AR, Tanno Y, Sugishita C, Ernst E. Tsukuba College of Technology Clinic, 4-12-7 Kasuga, Tsukuba, 305-0821, Japan. DATA SYNTHESIS: 89 articles which reported 124 cases were located. The most frequent adverse events were: pneumothorax (25 cases), spinal cord injury (18 cases), acute hepatitis B (11 cases), and localized argyria (10 cases). There were two fatalities from infections. Forty-eight events were caused by needle breakage including 26 cases of intentionally embedded needle and 16 cases of accidental breakage. There were also 10 cases of injury from self-treatment. — Love from Cathy Careful where you stick that pin!

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The great thing about acupuncture from almost anybody’s viewpoint is how it can fit into any philosophy of health care.

From "almost anybody’s viewpoint"? How about Barratt? He believes it is quackery. How about the sci-med skeptics who believe it has not been shown to be effective. Is this another "skeptic" case of bash every approach except the one(s) the person believes in? For those who adamantly refuse conventional treatments, medications, etc. acupuncture is an economical form of alternative health care with very little chance of harm.

Wow. How many people who use acupuncture do you believe "adamantly refuse conventional treatments, meds, etc"? Probably very few if any.  In other words, beneficial or not (not the debate at this point — its efficacy isn’t the question,

Perhaps not here, but its efficacy is under question by many people. < it’s only safety being discussed) there is *miniscule* risk of any harm & the patient doesn’t pay an arm & a leg for it.

The patient "doesn’t pay an arm and a leg for it"?  It depends on how many treatments they have, the cost, and whether they have to pay out of pocket. It can add up. For conventional health care believers, acupuncture also holds miniscule risk of harm, is economical, & there is the fact that it can be combined with just about any conventional treatment plan with no contradictions,

Not exactly. Doing conventional med treatments can affect the effectiveness of acupuncture apparently.  no "don’t do what your M.D. told you because I can cure you of all diseases" stuff,

Who said that? no delaying life & death treatment until it’s too late.

Delaying what life and death treatment? ..diane

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Thanks for the warning Cathy!!  Here’s from another study by then with more specific numbers– J Altern Complement Med 2000 Aug;6(4):345-50 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut   Incidence of adverse reactions associated with acupuncture. Yamashita H, Tsukayama H, Hori N, Kimura T, Tanno Y. Tsukuba College of Technology Clinic, Tsukuba City, Japan. OBJECTIVES: To determine the type, severity, and incidence of acupuncture adverse reactions that are observed in standard practice. DESIGN: A survey based on observation and interview by the therapists. SETTING: Tsukuba College of Technology Clinic in Japan. SUBJECTS: All patients who underwent acupuncture treatment during a period of 4 months from April to July 1998. OUTCOME MEASURES: Type, severity, and incidence of acupuncture adverse reactions. RESULTS: A total of 391 patients were treated in 1,441 sessions, involving a total of 30,338 needle insertions. The incidence of recorded systemic reactions in individual patients was: tiredness (8.2%); drowsiness (2.8%); aggravation of preexisting symptoms (2.8%); itching in the punctured regions (1.0%); dizziness or vertigo (0.8%); feeling of faintness or nausea during treatment (0.8%); headache (0.5%); and chest pain (0.3%). The incidence of recorded local reactions, expressed as a percentage of needle insertions, was: minor bleeding on withdrawal of the needle (2.6%); pain on insertion of the needle (0.7%); petechia or ecchymosis (0.3%); pain or ache in the punctured region after the treatment (0.1%); subcutaneous haematoma (0.1%); and pain or discomfort in the punctured region during the needle retention (0.03%).   Now, look at a class of commonly prescribed drugs,   http://www.citizen.org/eletter/drugprofiles/antidtable.htm Nausea as an adverse reaction to  Zoloft-28% Diarrhea-21% Nausea as an adverse reaction to Luvox-40% Diarhea 11% You can click on the website for more…. BL

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Complement Ther Med 2001 Jun;9(2):98-104 Yamashita H, Tsukayama H, White AR, Tanno Y, Sugishita C, Ernst E. Tsukuba College of Technology Clinic, 4-12-7 Kasuga, Tsukuba, 305-0821, Japan. DATA SYNTHESIS: 89 articles which reported 124 cases were located. The most frequent adverse events were: pneumothorax (25 cases), spinal cord injury (18 cases), acute hepatitis B (11 cases), and localized argyria (10 cases). There were two fatalities from infections. Forty-eight events were caused by needle breakage including  26 cases of intentionally embedded needle and 16 cases of accidental breakage. There were also 10 cases of injury from self-treatment. — Love from Cathy Careful where you stick that pin!

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Question:

I did quite a bit of research and not just with a "clerk" or just an advertisement. Today is the end of my second day without using azmacort or my four daily double puffs of combivent and my lungs seem to be clearer than they have been in several months.  I can take good deep breaths most of the time.  This of course doesn’t mean as much as it will if it stays this way.  I will report my progress or regress in two more days.   Tom

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I was on Azmacort, Zamacort, actually, but the same thing, and had to take about 1000micrograms per day.  I am now on Flixotide (flutacasona) at 100 mcgs per day.  The side effects are considerably less.  I know the Pharm company literature tells you there are no side effects, but some of us get them.  You might consider this if that is your problem. I have explored the use of alternative medication for asthma pretty extensively, and while I would certainly not discourage you, especially if you publish your experiences accurately on this NG, my experiences give me a certain amount of concern for you in this case.  If you are experiencing side effects from corticosteroids, it is very possible that you will experience some problems from supression when you quit abruptly, aside from your normal asthmatic problems.   Keep an open mind, but don’t throw away your Azmacort.  At one point I neglected to take my steroids for a number of days because I didn’t realize how much they helped; when I began having problems I took a large number of inhalations, as I have read is recommended in Europe, and my problems subsided to a large degree within 24 hours, although it was a few days before I felt 100%. Please monitor yourself carefully.  Let us know what happens.  Who knows, you may be on to something.  If not, even negative information is still information, and you may keep someone else from making a similar mistake.   Good luck. "Some of my colleagues think that the  chemicals we are experimenting with  could potentially cause brain damage,  however I think that fish crunchy bits of  salami my new red hippie noodle.  Naked pool frogs?"

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there is a difference between Oregano Oil and the stuff you cook with.

is there? what is that difference? personally I don’t care if you treat your asthma by sticking barbed wire up your backside…but if you post here asking for information about it then I don’t see why I shouldn’t tell you it sounds a pretty stupid idea if you don’t want other people’s opinions then get the hell off of usenet…if you do want them I shall reiterate I have never seen anything to the effect that oregano or any component thereof has any beneficial effect on asthma…over the years I’ve had recommendations that I should take thousands of different substances to help…oregano has hitherto never figured in them I’ve seen myriad medical benefits ascribed to a huge range of herbs…all I’m saying is that this is a new one on me, and if there was anything much to it I would have expected it to be quite big news as it is I’m more inclined to believe it’s just the latest scam to separate asthmatics from their money…and you won’t prove that impression wrong by insulting everyone that questions it — eric "in some places the digital revolution is still a case of giving the President the finger"

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there is a difference between Oregano Oil and the stuff you cook with. is there? what is that difference? personally I don’t care if you treat your asthma by sticking barbed wire up your backside…but if you post here asking for information about it then I don’t see why I shouldn’t tell you it sounds a pretty stupid idea if you don’t want other people’s opinions then get the hell off of usenet…if you do want them I shall reiterate

I’m not sure why he degenerated into such animus so quickly.  Most of what I read in reply to his experiment was to exercise caution, beware of scams, and that ‘it was his business’ as long as he wasn’t here to urge others to do likewise or to buy something (and I saw no indication that he was trying to do anything like that; although my personal belief is that it’s a futile exercise, he gives every indication of being sincere).

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How’s this for comprehending the English language? "Methinks thou doth protest too much." (William Shakespeare) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Day number four.  I’m still breathing well, and my lungs are still clear.  I will keep my combivent available but it looks as though, with any kind of luck, I won’t be needing it.  The proof will be in the pudding this Spring, when the pollen strikes with a vengeance. For those of you who are not capable of reading and comprehending the English language and are like politicians who nit pick for information they need so they have something to feed their verbal enemas,  there is a difference between Oregano Oil and the stuff you cook with. You are the same inconsiderate bastards that condemned penicillin because it was made from mold similar to the stuff you found in your kitchens. I was hoping that perhaps I might have something that is usable to sufferers of asthma and allergies, like me.   It seems to be working for me, at least to this point. I will keep my combivent handy, in the event that I’m wrong. Effective today I will stop giving an every other day feedback on the results of my trial of oil of oregano.  Based on the short period of time on this board, I suspect you have enough people with  all the answers.

– Michael Hinsberg Hinsbar Laboratories, Inc. http://www.hinsbarlabs.com

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Day number four.  I’m still breathing well, and my lungs are still clear.  I will keep my combivent available but it looks as though, with any kind of luck, I won’t be needing it.  The proof will be in the pudding this Spring, when the pollen strikes with a vengeance.     For those of you who are not capable of reading and comprehending the English language and are like politicians who nit pick for information they need so they have something to feed their verbal enemas,  there is a difference between Oregano Oil and the stuff you cook with. You are the same inconsiderate bastards that condemned penicillin because it was made from mold similar to the stuff you found in your kitchens.   I was hoping that perhaps I might have something that is usable to sufferers of asthma and allergies, like me.   It seems to be working for me, at least to this point. I will keep my combivent handy, in the event that I’m wrong.   Effective today I will stop giving an every other day feedback on the results of my trial of oil of oregano.  Based on the short period of time on this board, I suspect you have enough people with  all the answers.

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     To you taking the oil of oregano: If it is working for YOU than fine,  That is all we want to know, especially as you said in the spring when the pollen is here.  Or even any thing else that may have triggered your attacks – have you noticed any results????  Don’t be so judgmental – if it seems to be agreeing with you, than I wish you Gods blessings.

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I heard a paid commercial the other day on the benefits of oregano oil. I found some information on the web all of which are commercial, but do seem to offer promise.

of course they offer promise. you said it yourself: they’re *commercial* websites. what else did you expect them to say – "this stuff of ours won’t do diddly for you, but please buy it anyway"?  I talked with  a rather knowledgeable person at the locat health food store and he indicated that he heard some good things about the oil.

did he provide references? I started using a couple drops under the tongue twice a day and discontinued my azmacort this morning.

you’re gambling with your health here. worst case, you might be gambling with your life. however, it’s _your_ life, so you’re perfectly free to – just kindly don’t try to talk anybody else into it, i have an aversion to people who try that.  I will know in the next few days how effective it is and if in fact it is helpful.

well, depends on what you mean by "to know". all you’ll really *know* is what will have happened to _you_, in your circumstances – this time around. going from there to proof of safety and efficacy is a very long trip. —    PGP/GnuPG key (ID 1024D/BFE0D6D0) available from keyservers everywhere        "Everything I am today, I owe to people whom it is now too late                                    to punish."

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I heard a paid commercial the other day on the benefits of oregano oil. I found some information on the web all of which are commercial, but do seem to offer promise.  I talked with  a rather knowledgeable person at the locat health food store and he indicated that he heard some good things about the oil.I started using a couple drops under the tongue twice a day and discontinued my azmacort this morning.  I will know in the next few days how effective it is and if in fact it is helpful.    

let’s look at this again on the strength of an ad that says that mysteriously an herb that has been in common use for centuries has suddenly developed properties that we were hitherto unaware of, you have discontinued a treatment that was obviously working (otherwise you wouldn’t need to stop taking it to see if there was an effect from the snake oil) I’ve been using oregano in a huge range of dishes for as long as I can remember…I’ve heard all sorts of claims of different benefits of various culinary herbs…I think if there was ANY substance to this I’d have heard something before it’s got fraud written all over it I’m afraid — eric "if a thing’s worth doing, it’s worth doing to excess"

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I took the liberty of searching the medical literature back to 1966, containing some 10,564,025 records…and I did find one paper on oregano and asthma… Title:  Labiatae allergy: systemic reactions due to ingestion of oregano and thyme. Appears In:  ANNALS OF ALLERGY, ASTHMA, AND IMMUNOLOGY. vol. 76, no. 5 (1996 May): 416-8. There was one article on oil of oregano… Title:  Inhibition of enteric parasites by emulsified oil of oregano in vivo. There is nothing in the legitimate medical literature to support the use of oil of oregano in asthma…now, a question.  You say…"and discontinued my azmacort this morning."  Was the reason you tried the oil of oregano because you are having symptoms on the medication you have been taking? See your doctor…whenever you go to a "health food" store, and take advice, ask the person giving the advice what their training is…you will most likely be shocked! See your doctor! Best wishes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I heard a paid commercial the other day on the benefits of oregano oil. I found some information on the web all of which are commercial, but do seem to offer promise.  I talked with  a rather knowledgeable person at the locat health food store and he indicated that he heard some good things about the oil.I started using a couple drops under the tongue twice a day and discontinued my azmacort this morning.  I will know in the next few days how effective it is and if in fact it is helpful.

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I heard a paid commercial the other day on the benefits of oregano oil. I found some information on the web all of which are commercial, but do seem to offer promise.  I talked with  a rather knowledgeable person at the locat health food store and he indicated that he heard some good things about the oil.I started using a couple drops under the tongue twice a day and discontinued my azmacort this morning.  I will know in the next few days how effective it is and if in fact it is helpful.    

Did I just hear that you discontinued a _known effective_ asthma medication on nothing but the claims of some salesclerk in a health food store?  What are you going to do when this crap does not work (you believed an infomercial?!?) and it takes several weeks for the Azmacort to take effect? My advice is not to get health advice from somebody who is trying to sell you something. "Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off."    General Colin Powell

Response:

I caught that infomercial too.  From what I heard, before I couldn’t stand the lies anymore and turned it off, it appears that oil of oregano cures just about everything.  Asthma, irritable bowel syndrome, allergies, you name it.  Beware of snake (aka oregano) oil.  The human body is an immensely complicated machine, there is no such thing as a cure all. Read between the lines.  They didn’t really claim that oil of oregano would do anything.  To do otherwise would be illegal.  Using misleading dialogue and (paid) testimonials they led the listener to believe that oil of oregano would help their condition. If a company makes a claim that their product will treat or cure an illness then it legally becomes a drug and is subject to FDA regulation.  This means that their claims will need to be supported by scientific evidence and clinical studies to prove safety and efficacy. When confronted with this, most "supplement" companies fall back on the conspiracy theory.  That is, they would love to complete the studies but they’re blocked by the big drug companies.  Don’t believe it.  The pharmaceutical industry is highly competitive and billions of dollars are spent each year researching and developing new drugs.  New drugs are routinely developed by small companies who then partner with one of the large pharmaceutical houses to bring them to market.  This only makes good economic sense.  If there really was any truth to the supposed health benefits of oregano oil, big pharma would be knocking at their door. I heard a paid commercial the other day on the benefits of oregano oil. I found some information on the web all of which are commercial, but do seem to offer promise.  I talked with  a rather knowledgeable person at the locat health food store and he indicated that he heard some good things about the oil.I started using a couple drops under the tongue twice a day and discontinued my azmacort this morning.  I will know in the next few days how effective it is and if in fact it is helpful.

– Michael Hinsberg Hinsbar Laboratories, Inc. http://www.hinsbarlabs.com

Response:

I heard a paid commercial the other day on the benefits of oregano oil. I found some information on the web all of which are commercial, but do seem to offer promise.  I talked with  a rather knowledgeable person at the locat health food store and he indicated that he heard some good things about the oil.I started using a couple drops under the tongue twice a day and discontinued my azmacort this morning.  I will know in the next few days how effective it is and if in fact it is helpful.    

Response:

Please be careful.  There is no evidence that this product will do anything other than lighten your wallet.  Beware of any product that suggests that you can suspend your existing treatment. If you insist on trying this, at least keep your rescue inhaler handy. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I heard a paid commercial the other day on the benefits of oregano oil. I found some information on the web all of which are commercial, but do seem to offer promise.  I talked with  a rather knowledgeable person at the locat health food store and he indicated that he heard some good things about the oil.I started using a couple drops under the tongue twice a day and discontinued my azmacort this morning.  I will know in the next few days how effective it is and if in fact it is helpful.

Response:

Question:

Ouch..sounds painful – inside of thigh..  Is that a recommended spot for Copaxine shots?  I’m on Betaseron so don’t know!  It is not recommended for beta – specifically I was told because you ‘rub’ that spot so to speak with leg movement.  Just seems like a painful spot to inject, let alone to deal with *any* type of reaction! — Laura Queen of the Mercury Amalgam Aspartame Multiple Sclerosis Society "Tom Henry" <THENR…@PRODIGY.NET

wrote in message

news:SXFp8.557$Sm6.31661312@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I had that too Mark.  Thank God I have not had it in a long time.  We stay > away from the insides of my thighs.  That’s where I got most of my bad > reactions. > Tom In Cincinnati > http://www.geocities.com/thenryjr_98/firsttry.html > "Mark Drew" <matthew…@aol.comnospam

wrote in message

> news:20020331081804.22393.00000974@mb-fv.aol.com… > > >I am almost certain that, in my > > >case, the pre-mixing and standing at room temp for several hours had > > >something to do with it. > > I have very bad reactions every time I hit a capillary.  I have all the > noted > > reactions plus the small of my back, neck and back of head feel like they

are going to explore. Matthew Matthew Mark Drew       Remove NOSPAM from address to reply http://members.aol.com/matthew561/ It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. –Antoine de Saint Exup

Question:

Jack,            Thanks for the information and the NG link, I must come accross as a cheap skate ….. but I thought if it appeared naturally why should I pay for the drugs and the cost of getting them if I could obtain similar results eating a combination of every day foods. I am now a little wiser thanks to you and Chris. Regards, Dave. bogus address <bo…@purr.demon.co.uk

wrote in message

news:5194@purr.demon.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"Dave" <notva…@hotmail.com writes: Are there any natural sources of antihistamine ? for example: fruit or foods. I am currently on medication for hayfever and am getting sick of paying for the drugs as they are expensive. Usually if you want a drug-type action,  it’s cheaper to get it from a drug than a natural source.  I’ve never heard of an antihistamine occurring in nature, anyway: the whole family of drugs is a mid-20th- century invention with no precedent in traditional medicine. You might try a cheaper antihistamine – the older ones are much cheaper than the new ones, though they are more likely to have sedating side- effects. Are there any other news groups that I could go to to find out more? alt.folklore.herbs maybe, but don’t get your hopes up. — email to "jc" at this site: email to "jack"  or "bogus" will bounce

<—

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131

6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and

recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music

resources

Response:

Linda wrote in message … And there are a number of natural "anti-allergy" type supplement combinations to be had at local health food stores, and the herb stinging nettles often is recommended by herbalists for help with hay fever and other seasonal allergies as it is thought to have an anti-histamine effect by some researchers.

This interests me, as the stinging nettle, Urticara urticans, contains histamine. The reaction that one gets from handling the nettle is caused by the injection of histamine into the skin, causing the itchy rash. Urticaria (hives) was given that name because of its similarity to the nettle rash. Far from having an anti-histamine effect, it has a _histamine_ effect. — Larry Preuss Ann Arbor, MI USA

Response:

Hi all,           I wonder if someone could point me in the right direction, Are there any natural sources of antihistamine ? for example: fruit or foods. I am currently on medication for hayfever and am getting sick of paying for the drugs as they are expensive. Are there any other news groups that I could goto to find out more ?……… anybody ? Thanks in advance, regards, Dave.

Response:

"Dave" <notva…@hotmail.com

writes: Are there any natural sources of antihistamine ? for example: fruit or foods. I am currently on medication for hayfever and am getting sick of paying for the drugs as they are expensive.

Usually if you want a drug-type action,  it’s cheaper to get it from a drug than a natural source.  I’ve never heard of an antihistamine occurring in nature, anyway: the whole family of drugs is a mid-20th- century invention with no precedent in traditional medicine. You might try a cheaper antihistamine – the older ones are much cheaper than the new ones, though they are more likely to have sedating side- effects.

Are there any other news groups that I could go to to find out more?

alt.folklore.herbs maybe, but don’t get your hopes up. —

email to "jc" at this site: email to "jack"  or "bogus" will bounce <—

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

Response:

Just happened to be browsing this newsgroup and came across this posting. I guess would have to disagree here with the person below who said anti-histamine effects has to come from a drug bottle. Quercitin acts as a natural antihistamine, as does Vitamin C to a degree.  Both in a bit larger than normal doses And there are a number of natural "anti-allergy" type supplement combinations to be had at local health food stores, and the herb stinging nettles often is recommended by herbalists for help with hay fever and other seasonal allergies as it is thought to have an anti-histamine effect by some researchers. You could also try one of the many homeopathic preparations for allergies as well. Some of these work quite well. Hope this helps On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:47:54 +1000, "Dave" <notva…@hotmail.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Jack,           Thanks for the information and the NG link, I must come accross as a cheap skate ….. but I thought if it appeared naturally why should I pay for the drugs and the cost of getting them if I could obtain similar results eating a combination of every day foods. I am now a little wiser thanks to you and Chris. Regards, Dave. bogus address <bo…@purr.demon.co.uk wrote in message news:5194@purr.demon.co.uk… "Dave" <notva…@hotmail.com writes: Are there any natural sources of antihistamine ? for example: fruit or foods. I am currently on medication for hayfever and am getting sick of paying for the drugs as they are expensive. Usually if you want a drug-type action,  it’s cheaper to get it from a drug than a natural source.  I’ve never heard of an antihistamine occurring in nature, anyway: the whole family of drugs is a mid-20th- century invention with no precedent in traditional medicine. You might try a cheaper antihistamine – the older ones are much cheaper than the new ones, though they are more likely to have sedating side- effects. Are there any other news groups that I could go to to find out more? alt.folklore.herbs maybe, but don’t get your hopes up. — email to "jc" at this site: email to "jack"  or "bogus" will bounce <— Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

Response:

On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:27:58 +1000, "Dave" <notva…@hotmail.com

wrote:

Hi all,          I wonder if someone could point me in the right direction, Are there any natural sources of antihistamine ? for example: fruit or foods.

No.

I am currently on medication for hayfever and am getting sick of paying for the drugs as they are expensive.

Unless you have severe systemic reactions, they are also optional. Would you rather have the hayfever or the expense? Chris Owens

Response:

In reply to Linda, I’m a chronic allergy sufferer in the Spring time so, my sister suggested  I try taking a combination of Cod Liver Oil capsules -which is Vitamin A, and Acid free Vitamin C tablets. Her Naturopath advised that this combination has been known to strengthen varicose veins and has now been used for people with allergies – where the nasal membranes are very thin. I have been taking this for about 2 months now, but not constantly maybe missing a week out of every month and so far the allergies are much less. It is Spring here in Australia and the pollens, dandelions, wildflowers and rye grass all contributing to a very tiresome time. I usually get asthma in November from the rye grass, for the past 4 years now, and so far I haven’t had as bad an allergy reaction and no asthma attack yet. I am definitely NOT a professional and I do advise that you ask a naturopath or a health food consultant about the safety of these combinations. Vitamin A should NOT be taken in too high a dose or for too long a period. So, check it out and see if it helps. I’m also taking Telfast or claratyne antihistamines once a day. Nada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Linda wrote in message …

And there are a number of natural "anti-allergy" type supplement combinations to be had at local health food stores, and the herb stinging nettles often is recommended by herbalists for help with hay fever and other seasonal allergies as it is thought to have an anti-histamine effect by some researchers. You could also try one of the many homeopathic preparations for allergies as well. Some of these work quite well.

Response:

Hi there Chris,

Unless you have severe systemic reactions, they are also optional. Would you rather have the hayfever or the expense?

                         You make a good point, I’d rather not have the hayfever at all, however if there was a natural source of antihistamine then I’d rather take it as opposed to the drugs, and since there are none then I will continue with the medication ….. Thank you for the prompt reply and information. Regards, Dave. C.A. Owens <caow…@redsuspenders.com

wrote in message

news:38104df4.54226070@news.eznet.net…

Response:

Linda <lin…@aiconnect.com

writes: I guess would have to disagree here with the person below who said anti-histamine effects has to come from a drug bottle.  Quercitin acts as a natural antihistamine, as does Vitamin C to a degree. Both in a bit larger than normal doses

The original poster was looking for something that would get him a useful anti-histamine action cheaper than regular antihistamine drugs. Nothing I’ve read about quercetin (yes, that’s how you spell it) suggests it has any very powerful anti-histamine action, and drugs like diphen- hydramine are fairly cheap, so how do you know there’s any chance it would save him any money?  What dose are you suggesting? For comparison: chlorpheniramine maleate tablets have a price to the NHS of 19p for 20 4mg tablets; maximum adult dose per day is 24mg, i.e. a bit under 6p.  Cyproheptadine (a wider-spectrum drug less likely to cause drowsiness) costs 86p for 30 4mg tablets, with the usual daily dose around 12mg, i.e. 8.6p.  This is not expensive.  Generic 500mg vitamin C tablets (which I’ve never heard of having any anti-histamine action; why do you think this?) cost 71p for 20; how many are you suggesting people should take?  The sort of doses people use for megavitamin therapy are typically more expensive than the standard doses for those antihistamines.

the herb stinging nettles often is recommended by herbalists for help with hay fever and other seasonal allergies as it is thought to have an anti-histamine effect by some researchers.

I would hope that responsible herbalists would want a bit more than "is thought to have" as evidence of effectiveness before prescribing something.  This sounds like a homoeopathic remedy, and no homoeopathic drug has ever been shown to do a damn thing in isolation (as opposed to homoeopathic treatment regimens, which can; but they also involve lifestyle changes which are presumably what does the trick). "Nada" <i…@gazebolake.com.au

wrote:

: my sister suggested  I try taking a combination of Cod Liver Oil : capsules -which is Vitamin A, and Acid free Vitamin C tablets. Her : Naturopath advised that this combination has been known to strengthen : varicose veins and has now been used for people with allergies – where : the nasal membranes are very thin. Thinness of membranes doesn’t in itself cause respiratory allergies. Excessive permeability might, and vitamin A helps with that (not vitamin C to any significant extent).  But there are lots of other factors involved and many allergic people have no membrane problems at all. —

email to "jc" at this site: email to "jack"  or "bogus" will bounce <—

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

Response:

Question:

well, she is only eating 3 servings of meat a week right now. Perhaps I will let her slowly reduce the amount of meat she is eating so that we can watch her weight and adjust it as she adjusts the amount of meat she is eating. I do know that a vegetarian diet is healthier and I know that the biggest benefit she is getting from meat at this point is the fat in it.

I have quite a few friends who are vegetarians and most of them are not thin; in fact several are overweight. I have gradually stopped eating meat over the past few years (I do still eat fish, maybe once a week) but I’ve not lost any weight, perhaps because I substitute cheese instead, and even the low fat versions still have some fat. I do feel healthier, though, because I’m eating more fruits and vegetables. I do have two friend who are vegans and they are both thin, so perhaps the difference is in eliminating the dairy products, which are generally high fat. I think if your daughter is still eating dairy products and lots of nuts, which are also high fat, she is not going to lose weight by giving up a few servings of meat. yngver (delete "nojunk" to e-mail)

Response:

Earlier this year the Animal Liberation Front broke into the University of Minnesota and destroyed research labs,including one THAT DID NOT USE ANIMALS FOR TESTING.Millions of dollars of damage was done and valuable ressearch was destroyed.They also took many animals that were used in experiments and claimed they had good homes for them.Well,the "good homes" turned out to be a cold,open field in Woodbury where many of them died of exposure after being unceremoniously dumped there and left with no means of survival.Needless to say,true animal rights organizations took a few steps back and wanted nothing to do with these idiots.So much for the animal’s rights. Megan

       <<I can’t believe that they arrest the people trying to help animals and not the ones doing the harm. They had a primate testing here at a local college and had animal rights people there and some were arrested. <Might have something to do with the way that the protesters behave. Damage to property, threats to workers, and other criminal acts have often gone along with protests against animal testing.