Question:

I finally found a psychiatrist whom I thought would work. This is, like my fourth one.  She listened to me more than the previous ones. I finally got an official diagnosis of bipolar, whereas the other ones just said I was probably depressed and wrote out a prescription. I thought I would finally get good treatment and things would get better. I’ve been on Wellbutrin for 6 weeks.  I have to go for follow-up every two weeks.  Each session takes 10 minutes, for which I pay 80 bucks.  Then I get a brand-new prescription, because she raises the dosage every two weeks.  This means that every two weeks, I buy medication that I am not supposed to stop taking when she ups the dosage again. She just raised me from 300 mg to 400 mg.  I just bought a full bottle of 150 mg. pills.  Now I had to buy a new bottle of 200 mg. pills, and they cost $100 more.  I have insurance, but I still have to make co-payments. Then she said that in two weeks, she may switch me to another medication altogether, since I complained to her of -increasing- moodiness.  I couldn’t make out the name, because she has a horribly thick accent. I’m beginning to feel that this is another rip-off.  The last one just hospitalized me for one whole week without trying to diagnose me with anything.  That one gave me Risperdal, apparently because he thought I was schizophrenic. Also, she asks leading questions, and I feel pressured to tailor my answers to what she wants to hear.  She apparently doesn’t want to hear that I’ve been terribly moody since I’ve started the medication – with crying spells and fits of rage that I didn’t have before I started it. Do any of these people really listen? Also, my first session with her was interrupted by a call from her lawyer.  Why the hell would she have a lawyer if someone hadn’t tried to sue her?  That’s not a good sign.

Response:

I had the same problems with Wellbutrin that you did…within days I was full of rage and extreme agitation….any and everything set me off…..I was diagnosed with major depression back in 95, but I have been searching wanted you to know that you aren’t going crazy, some people have no problem with Wellbutrin, but in my case I was mean and just a different person, basically a real bitch to be around lol…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I finally found a psychiatrist whom I thought would work. This is, like my fourth one.  She listened to me more than the previous ones. I finally got an official diagnosis of bipolar, whereas the other ones just said I was probably depressed and wrote out a prescription. I thought I would finally get good treatment and things would get better. I’ve been on Wellbutrin for 6 weeks.  I have to go for follow-up every two weeks.  Each session takes 10 minutes, for which I pay 80 bucks.  Then I get a brand-new prescription, because she raises the dosage every two weeks.  This means that every two weeks, I buy medication that I am not supposed to stop taking when she ups the dosage again. She just raised me from 300 mg to 400 mg.  I just bought a full bottle of 150 mg. pills.  Now I had to buy a new bottle of 200 mg. pills, and they cost $100 more.  I have insurance, but I still have to make co-payments. Then she said that in two weeks, she may switch me to another medication altogether, since I complained to her of -increasing- moodiness.  I couldn’t make out the name, because she has a horribly thick accent. I’m beginning to feel that this is another rip-off.  The last one just hospitalized me for one whole week without trying to diagnose me with anything.  That one gave me Risperdal, apparently because he thought I was schizophrenic. Also, she asks leading questions, and I feel pressured to tailor my answers to what she wants to hear.  She apparently doesn’t want to hear that I’ve been terribly moody since I’ve started the medication – with crying spells and fits of rage that I didn’t have before I started it. Do any of these people really listen? Also, my first session with her was interrupted by a call from her lawyer.  Why the hell would she have a lawyer if someone hadn’t tried to sue her?  That’s not a good sign.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Right arm(suppose to be a funny form of "right on"), Diane.  Bipolars have a hard time going to Dr when they have been diagnosed ’cause we’re having to much fun. The tricyclic and SSRI anti depressants are the one used in testing because of the way they interfere with the bipolar neural mechanism.  My daughter response to Wellbutrin by getting migraine headaches which is a recommended treatments for migraines.  She takes after her dad (the exception is wellbutrin which works).  The Dr. which I have just returned from, considers me a his worst patient because I react the opposite to most drugs.  The best thing you can do is to talk to your Dr. as a person and if they don’t like that, leave and find one that will (good luck; they are out there) RM in CA

Bob, On the other hand, if you are a southpaw…. Are you in southern CA? Perhaps 10 to 15% of bipolars have a thyroid hormone problem. This lab site says 10-15% of those who are depressed have comorbid hypothyroid.  http://www.gsdl.com/assessments/finddisease/depression/thyroid.html I went to UCLA for a thyroid diagnosis. (I am not bipolar, but I know a couple of people who are, so I’ve been doing some research) At the Gonda Clinic, I asked the young little Ms. Endo about bipolar and T3. She literally gasped… then mentioned Dr. Whybrow. Here is a NG post speaking of Dr. Whybrow: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=cytomel+depression&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF… Bipolar treatment http://groups.google.com/groups?q=cytomel+depression&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF… If you are interested in learning about the relationship between thyroid and bipolar, get to a computer that can access medical and scientific journals – such as a college or university. This is available from PubMed "Psychoendocrinological aspects of affective disorders" Journal of General Psychology October 1991, Vol. 118, Issue 4, Pg. 395, 27 pgs. AN: 9607102462 ISSN: 0022-1309 Best Regards, Craig

Response:

I have to agree with Diane — I was on 600 of Wellbutrin and Lexapro for awhile — and I was getting more Manic each day.  I to made plans for ending everything. Getting off of Wellbutrin and Lexapro was the greatest thing… what I am now on is not what I would have wanted — but my agitation is down and I can work more.  People around me tell me that I don’t bark at them as much now that I am off of those drugs. I would get a second pdoc to look at your drugs.  These are just my thoughts.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I totally freaked out when I went on wellbutrin.  Full blown mania, suicidal plans (not thoughts, plans), intense mood swings.  Wellbutrin is supposed to not incite problems in bipolars, but standard operating procedure for bipolar’s is to stabilize the moods and THEN provide anti-depressants as necessary.  Mood swings in response to anti-depressants is a classic diagnositic tool for bipolarity.   I think it’s weird that she is just upping your dosage when you don’t seem to be responding positively to the medication.  I would consider getting yet another opinion.  But don’t write off the doctors who diagnosed you as depressed.  It’s very common for bipolarity to be misdiagnosed as depression, since patients tend to go to doctors for help only during the depressive phase so the doctors don’t see the mania.  If you liked one of those doctors, you might speak with him/her again and ask about how they would treat bipolarity as opposed to depression.  Good luck.  There are good doctors out there. Diane I finally found a psychiatrist whom I thought would work. This is, like my fourth one.  She listened to me more than the previous ones. I finally got an official diagnosis of bipolar, whereas the other ones just said I was probably depressed and wrote out a prescription. I thought I would finally get good treatment and things would get better. I’ve been on Wellbutrin for 6 weeks.  I have to go for follow-up every two weeks.  Each session takes 10 minutes, for which I pay 80 bucks.  Then I get a brand-new prescription, because she raises the dosage every two weeks.  This means that every two weeks, I buy medication that I am not supposed to stop taking when she ups the dosage again. She just raised me from 300 mg to 400 mg.  I just bought a full bottle of 150 mg. pills.  Now I had to buy a new bottle of 200 mg. pills, and they cost $100 more.  I have insurance, but I still have to make co-payments. Then she said that in two weeks, she may switch me to another medication altogether, since I complained to her of -increasing- moodiness.  I couldn’t make out the name, because she has a horribly thick accent. I’m beginning to feel that this is another rip-off.  The last one just hospitalized me for one whole week without trying to diagnose me with anything.  That one gave me Risperdal, apparently because he thought I was schizophrenic. Also, she asks leading questions, and I feel pressured to tailor my answers to what she wants to hear.  She apparently doesn’t want to hear that I’ve been terribly moody since I’ve started the medication – with crying spells and fits of rage that I didn’t have before I started it. Do any of these people really listen? Also, my first session with her was interrupted by a call from her lawyer.  Why the hell would she have a lawyer if someone hadn’t tried to sue her?  That’s not a good sign.

Response:

I totally freaked out when I went on wellbutrin.  Full blown mania, suicidal plans (not thoughts, plans), intense mood swings.  Wellbutrin is supposed to not incite problems in bipolars, but standard operating procedure for bipolar’s is to stabilize the moods and THEN provide anti-depressants as necessary.  Mood swings in response to anti-depressants is a classic diagnositic tool for bipolarity.   I think it’s weird that she is just upping your dosage when you don’t seem to be responding positively to the medication.  I would consider getting yet another opinion.  But don’t write off the doctors who diagnosed you as depressed.  It’s very common for bipolarity to be misdiagnosed as depression, since patients tend to go to doctors for help only during the depressive phase so the doctors don’t see the mania.  If you liked one of those doctors, you might speak with him/her again and ask about how they would treat bipolarity as opposed to depression.  Good luck.  There are good doctors out there. Diane

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I finally found a psychiatrist whom I thought would work. This is, like my fourth one.  She listened to me more than the previous ones. I finally got an official diagnosis of bipolar, whereas the other ones just said I was probably depressed and wrote out a prescription. I thought I would finally get good treatment and things would get better. I’ve been on Wellbutrin for 6 weeks.  I have to go for follow-up every two weeks.  Each session takes 10 minutes, for which I pay 80 bucks.  Then I get a brand-new prescription, because she raises the dosage every two weeks.  This means that every two weeks, I buy medication that I am not supposed to stop taking when she ups the dosage again. She just raised me from 300 mg to 400 mg.  I just bought a full bottle of 150 mg. pills.  Now I had to buy a new bottle of 200 mg. pills, and they cost $100 more.  I have insurance, but I still have to make co-payments. Then she said that in two weeks, she may switch me to another medication altogether, since I complained to her of -increasing- moodiness.  I couldn’t make out the name, because she has a horribly thick accent. I’m beginning to feel that this is another rip-off.  The last one just hospitalized me for one whole week without trying to diagnose me with anything.  That one gave me Risperdal, apparently because he thought I was schizophrenic. Also, she asks leading questions, and I feel pressured to tailor my answers to what she wants to hear.  She apparently doesn’t want to hear that I’ve been terribly moody since I’ve started the medication – with crying spells and fits of rage that I didn’t have before I started it. Do any of these people really listen? Also, my first session with her was interrupted by a call from her lawyer.  Why the hell would she have a lawyer if someone hadn’t tried to sue her?  That’s not a good sign.

Response:

Thanks to you and everyone else for your answers. Since I spent so much money for the medication, I am going to use the 150s until they run out.  Maybe I will take one 150 mg and one 200 mg every day, instead of two 200 mgs, and just not tell her, because I am sick of this. And in two weeks, she’s just going to change the medication again. Also, she said she would have me tested for hyperthyroidism and never did. Am I wrong in thinking that $80 is a bit much for a 10-minute follow-up?  Any other doctor I’ve seen for that sort of thing has charged half as much. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yes it was a bad doc.  Unless the symptoms get worst the meds should not be changed quickly.  It takes at least 8 to 12 weeks for psych drug to become effective enough to determine if it will work.  If the dose is changed within that period the clock starts over.  This is why it takes an average of two years to find the right treatment for you. As far a finding a good psychiatrist in CA, I have found only three and one of them is in Phoenix. I wish you the best of luck on locating a Dr.  I pray that ALL of us can find a good, helpful, and knowledgeable Dr.                RM In Cal I finally found a psychiatrist whom I thought would work. This is, like my fourth one.  She listened to me more than the previous ones. I finally got an official diagnosis of bipolar, whereas the other ones just said I was probably depressed and wrote out a prescription. I thought I would finally get good treatment and things would get better. I’ve been on Wellbutrin for 6 weeks.  I have to go for follow-up every two weeks.  Each session takes 10 minutes, for which I pay 80 bucks.  Then I get a brand-new prescription, because she raises the dosage every two weeks.  This means that every two weeks, I buy medication that I am not supposed to stop taking when she ups the dosage again. She just raised me from 300 mg to 400 mg.  I just bought a full bottle of 150 mg. pills.  Now I had to buy a new bottle of 200 mg. pills, and they cost $100 more.  I have insurance, but I still have to make co-payments. Then she said that in two weeks, she may switch me to another medication altogether, since I complained to her of -increasing- moodiness.  I couldn’t make out the name, because she has a horribly thick accent. I’m beginning to feel that this is another rip-off.  The last one just hospitalized me for one whole week without trying to diagnose me with anything.  That one gave me Risperdal, apparently because he thought I was schizophrenic. Also, she asks leading questions, and I feel pressured to tailor my answers to what she wants to hear.  She apparently doesn’t want to hear that I’ve been terribly moody since I’ve started the medication – with crying spells and fits of rage that I didn’t have before I started it. Do any of these people really listen? Also, my first session with her was interrupted by a call from her lawyer.  Why the hell would she have a lawyer if someone hadn’t tried to sue her?  That’s not a good sign.

Response:

Yes it was a bad doc.  Unless the symptoms get worst the meds should not be changed quickly.  It takes at least 8 to 12 weeks for psych drug to become effective enough to determine if it will work.  If the dose is changed within that period the clock starts over.  This is why it takes an average of two years to find the right treatment for you. As far a finding a good psychiatrist in CA, I have found only three and one of them is in Phoenix. I wish you the best of luck on locating a Dr.  I pray that ALL of us can find a good, helpful, and knowledgeable Dr.                 RM In Cal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I finally found a psychiatrist whom I thought would work. This is, like my fourth one.  She listened to me more than the previous ones. I finally got an official diagnosis of bipolar, whereas the other ones just said I was probably depressed and wrote out a prescription. I thought I would finally get good treatment and things would get better. I’ve been on Wellbutrin for 6 weeks.  I have to go for follow-up every two weeks.  Each session takes 10 minutes, for which I pay 80 bucks.  Then I get a brand-new prescription, because she raises the dosage every two weeks.  This means that every two weeks, I buy medication that I am not supposed to stop taking when she ups the dosage again. She just raised me from 300 mg to 400 mg.  I just bought a full bottle of 150 mg. pills.  Now I had to buy a new bottle of 200 mg. pills, and they cost $100 more.  I have insurance, but I still have to make co-payments. Then she said that in two weeks, she may switch me to another medication altogether, since I complained to her of -increasing- moodiness.  I couldn’t make out the name, because she has a horribly thick accent. I’m beginning to feel that this is another rip-off.  The last one just hospitalized me for one whole week without trying to diagnose me with anything.  That one gave me Risperdal, apparently because he thought I was schizophrenic. Also, she asks leading questions, and I feel pressured to tailor my answers to what she wants to hear.  She apparently doesn’t want to hear that I’ve been terribly moody since I’ve started the medication – with crying spells and fits of rage that I didn’t have before I started it. Do any of these people really listen? Also, my first session with her was interrupted by a call from her lawyer.  Why the hell would she have a lawyer if someone hadn’t tried to sue her?  That’s not a good sign.

Response:

Right arm(suppose to be a funny form of "right on"), Diane.  Bipolars have a hard time going to Dr when they have been diagnosed ’cause we’re having to much fun. The tricyclic and SSRI anti depressants are the one used in testing because of the way they interfere with the bipolar neural mechanism.  My daughter response to Wellbutrin by getting migraine headaches which is a recommended treatments for migraines.  She takes after her dad (the exception is wellbutrin which works).  The Dr. which I have just returned from, considers me a his worst patient because I react the opposite to most drugs.  The best thing you can do is to talk to your Dr. as a person and if they don’t like that, leave and find one that will (good luck; they are out there)         RM in CA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I totally freaked out when I went on wellbutrin.  Full blown mania, suicidal plans (not thoughts, plans), intense mood swings.  Wellbutrin is supposed to not incite problems in bipolars, but standard operating procedure for bipolar’s is to stabilize the moods and THEN provide anti-depressants as necessary.  Mood swings in response to anti-depressants is a classic diagnositic tool for bipolarity.   I think it’s weird that she is just upping your dosage when you don’t seem to be responding positively to the medication.  I would consider getting yet another opinion.  But don’t write off the doctors who diagnosed you as depressed.  It’s very common for bipolarity to be misdiagnosed as depression, since patients tend to go to doctors for help only during the depressive phase so the doctors don’t see the mania.  If you liked one of those doctors, you might speak with him/her again and ask about how they would treat bipolarity as opposed to depression.  Good luck.  There are good doctors out there. Diane I finally found a psychiatrist whom I thought would work. This is, like my fourth one.  She listened to me more than the previous ones. I finally got an official diagnosis of bipolar, whereas the other ones just said I was probably depressed and wrote out a prescription. I thought I would finally get good treatment and things would get better. I’ve been on Wellbutrin for 6 weeks.  I have to go for follow-up every two weeks.  Each session takes 10 minutes, for which I pay 80 bucks.  Then I get a brand-new prescription, because she raises the dosage every two weeks.  This means that every two weeks, I buy medication that I am not supposed to stop taking when she ups the dosage again. She just raised me from 300 mg to 400 mg.  I just bought a full bottle of 150 mg. pills.  Now I had to buy a new bottle of 200 mg. pills, and they cost $100 more.  I have insurance, but I still have to make co-payments. Then she said that in two weeks, she may switch me to another medication altogether, since I complained to her of -increasing- moodiness.  I couldn’t make out the name, because she has a horribly thick accent. I’m beginning to feel that this is another rip-off.  The last one just hospitalized me for one whole week without trying to diagnose me with anything.  That one gave me Risperdal, apparently because he thought I was schizophrenic. Also, she asks leading questions, and I feel pressured to tailor my answers to what she wants to hear.  She apparently doesn’t want to hear that I’ve been terribly moody since I’ve started the medication – with crying spells and fits of rage that I didn’t have before I started it. Do any of these people really listen? Also, my first session with her was interrupted by a call from her lawyer.  Why the hell would she have a lawyer if someone hadn’t tried to sue her?  That’s not a good sign.

Response:

Kind of depends on how good they are for you.  The one that was the best for me and the most helpful was$120 for 10 minutes (although they usually lasted 45 minutes because we get off track talking about new treatment methods and new and upcoming drugs). The one I see now is $80 and is not worth 10 but you do what you can when the nearest Pdr is 78 miles one way.          RM in CA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to you and everyone else for your answers. Since I spent so much money for the medication, I am going to use the 150s until they run out.  Maybe I will take one 150 mg and one 200 mg every day, instead of two 200 mgs, and just not tell her, because I am sick of this. And in two weeks, she’s just going to change the medication again. Also, she said she would have me tested for hyperthyroidism and never did. Am I wrong in thinking that $80 is a bit much for a 10-minute follow-up?  Any other doctor I’ve seen for that sort of thing has charged half as much. Yes it was a bad doc.  Unless the symptoms get worst the meds should not be changed quickly.  It takes at least 8 to 12 weeks for psych drug to become effective enough to determine if it will work.  If the dose is changed within that period the clock starts over.  This is why it takes an average of two years to find the right treatment for you. As far a finding a good psychiatrist in CA, I have found only three and one of them is in Phoenix. I wish you the best of luck on locating a Dr.  I pray that ALL of us can find a good, helpful, and knowledgeable Dr.               RM In Cal I finally found a psychiatrist whom I thought would work. This is, like my fourth one.  She listened to me more than the previous ones. I finally got an official diagnosis of bipolar, whereas the other ones just said I was probably depressed and wrote out a prescription. I thought I would finally get good treatment and things would get better. I’ve been on Wellbutrin for 6 weeks.  I have to go for follow-up every two weeks.  Each session takes 10 minutes, for which I pay 80 bucks.  Then I get a brand-new prescription, because she raises the dosage every two weeks.  This means that every two weeks, I buy medication that I am not supposed to stop taking when she ups the dosage again. She just raised me from 300 mg to 400 mg.  I just bought a full bottle of 150 mg. pills.  Now I had to buy a new bottle of 200 mg. pills, and they cost $100 more.  I have insurance, but I still have to make co-payments. Then she said that in two weeks, she may switch me to another medication altogether, since I complained to her of -increasing- moodiness.  I couldn’t make out the name, because she has a horribly thick accent. I’m beginning to feel that this is another rip-off.  The last one just hospitalized me for one whole week without trying to diagnose me with anything.  That one gave me Risperdal, apparently because he thought I was schizophrenic. Also, she asks leading questions, and I feel pressured to tailor my answers to what she wants to hear.  She apparently doesn’t want to hear that I’ve been terribly moody since I’ve started the medication – with crying spells and fits of rage that I didn’t have before I started it. Do any of these people really listen? Also, my first session with her was interrupted by a call from her lawyer.  Why the hell would she have a lawyer if someone hadn’t tried to sue her?  That’s not a good sign.

Response:

She just raised me from 300 mg to 400 mg.  I just bought a full bottle of 150 mg. pills.  Now I had to buy a new bottle of 200 mg. pills, and they cost $100 more.  I have insurance, but I still have to make co-payments.

I can definitely empathize with you. I changed insurance and my new pdoc wanted to see me every three weeks.  Dunno why ($$$).  I’ve been stable on lithium since my original diagnosis many years ago. He didn’t show any concern.  He never ran any blood tests.  He was always overbooked.  He left me sitting in the waiting room burning up my lunch hour.  And he spent 10 minutes with me appearing very bored then ushering me out – oh my gosh, I was the filler appointment.  <g He was a jackass.  I gave him the benefit of the doubt for three months tho.  It takes time for the doc-patient relationship to build and trust to form.  You have to give it a chance.  Gut instinct can be way off. My previous pdoc gave me Ativan the first day I met him, which spooked me.  He insisted on it.  But he turned out to be a great p-doc, very personable, calling me at home after I left to check up on me and see if there was anything he could do. Do any of these people really listen?

This same bonehead doc took notes on a laptop.  The funny thing was, he only used the mouse.   That’s pretty funny to me.  I’m on the sofa.  I’m explaining my whole life story, telling him about my kids, about my wife, how we’re coping and getting through all of it.  And I hear a little mouse tap.  That’s it. Also, my first session with her was interrupted by a call from her lawyer.  Why the hell would she have a lawyer if someone hadn’t tried to sue her?  That’s not a good sign.

Maybe she’s married to my bonehead pdoc and filing for a divorce.

Response:

Question:

<< How do you feel regarding such a think for a young girl with autoimmune family history?

You were talking about your daughter in that sentence, weren’t you?  As I recall, you’ve had reason in the past to suspect that she may also have lupus. It’s certainly never something you want to think about.  I know you’d rather suffer any amount of discomfort yourself rather than have your daughter ever have any.   Truthfully, my daughter takes her own lupus much more in stride than I do.  I guess in a way that’s one of the blessings of being a teenager.  She really doesn’t dwell too much on the future.  She lives day to day.  That’s something a lot of adults struggle with doing.   I have all kinds of concerns about her, of course.  I worry about everything where my daughter is concerned.   For one thing, she just graduated from high school.  She’s a young graduate at age 16, but, believe me, she’s earned it. She’s very gifted with a genius level IQ, and absolutely driven to learn.  As someone once said, talent wants; genius needs.  She has a need to learn to the point that she basically inhales knowledge as naturally as eating and breathing.  Therefore, we now have this kid who is intellectually very, very ready for college, but who I worry about physically being able to handle it (not to mention the emotional issues of being away from home at age 16).   We’ve sort of solved the dilemma for now by allowing her to enroll in on-line college with an accredited university for this year, and then next year agreeing that she may go away to college when she’s 17.  Still, the thought of her going away gives me the shivers.  She thinks nothing of it, but, as I said before, I can’t help but worry.  Actually, both my husband and I worry about her being able to balance health issues with her studies.   Anyone have any reassurance to offer?  I could sure use some. Sandra

Response:

hi sandra. i can really understand your worries concerning your daughter. what about her going to college close to home ?  this way she wouldn’t have o be far. she could go to school every day and come home at night. this way you wouldn’t need to worry so much, and you would be right there for her. just a thought! best wishes, SUE

Response:

Hi Sandra, I have been following how your daughter is doing and I can’t remember how old she is.  Also, you have been an enormous help to all of us.  I had a mitro valve prolapse for years and a couple of years ago, they found an aortic valve leak.  Aside from getting (normally!) tired, it seems to be OK.  Can’t do marathons anymore but I can do everyday stuff.  The doc said it was a thickening of the valve which is Lupus related.  I do take meds. for dental work.  Keep up the good work and prayers for you and your daughter.  Ginger

Response:

On 16 Jul 2001 03:02:07 GMT, scroyle…@aol.com (SCroyle909)  wrote:

<< How do you feel regarding such a think for a young girl with autoimmune family history? You were talking about your daughter in that sentence, weren’t you?

yes.  wondering if it’s worth the risk for her to go on an oral antibiotic for her acne given her family history of autoimmune disease.  She has always had perfect, porcelain skin – so this is really hurting her ego.  But we both have concerns about retin-A and of course we would never put her on Accutane (too much family history of depression and other disorders).  so the next step according to the doc is an oral Antibiotic.  I’m hoping he took her history into consideration and didn’t give her Minocin (I realize the jury is still out on that issue for some folks – please don’t flame me for my concern).

recall, you’ve had reason in the past to suspect that she may also have lupus. It’s certainly never something you want to think about.  I know you’d rather suffer any amount of discomfort yourself rather than have your daughter ever have any.  

I don’t know if I think she has lupus – but I do feel she has some basic autoimmune symptoms – My hubby says that she is starting with the symptoms much earlier than I did. In truth, I just never considered those symptoms to be an issue – I just thought it was "me" – so since my teens I’ve had fevers and back pain/chest pain and "growing pains".  I always put it off on my peculiarities and the scoliosis.  However, her symptoms are mild at this point and may be stress related more so than autoimmune.  (going to college, etc. – see my response below)

Truthfully, my daughter takes her own lupus much more in stride than I do.  

My daughter is just very determined that there’s nothing wrong with her (other than hypothyroidism and MVP).  She is not so much taking it in stride as denying that it is signficant.  So when she lies on the couch and is in so much pain (headaches) that she can’t even tolerate the dog (whom she calls "angel baby") then I know she’s in too much pain to "ignore" it.  but the cause remains unknown and her desire to find the cause has waned after a couple of treatments that failed.

guess in a way that’s one of the blessings of being a teenager.  She really doesn’t dwell too much on the future.  She lives day to day.  That’s something a lot of adults struggle with doing.  

I think I do that most of the time – where I am concerned.  But where my daughter is concerned I am always looking ahead and hoping the best for her.  Bird is a typical teen and yes, today is what is foremost in her mind though with college coming up and all that implies, she’s starting to be less a short-term thinker. S-T thinking is fine when you’re young and have few responsibilities – but once the bills start coming in and the boyfriend and the finals and….

For one thing, she just graduated from high school.  She’s a young graduate at age 16, but, believe me, she’s earned it.

Bird is also fairly young – she’ll still be 17 when she starts classes at the Univesity.  but she’s very mature in a lot of ways – but  of course, as is true with all humans, can be a temper-trantrum-throwing 2 y.o. too.

IQ, and absolutely driven to learn.  

Bird is not a genius but bright, and becoming goal-oriented.  Her love for her major has her so excited about college.  I just hope she can maintain that interest level and drive without burning out.

As someone once said, talent wants; genius needs.  She has a need to learn to the point that she basically inhales knowledge as naturally as eating and breathing.  

I was this way and still am to some extent – I just don’t have the memory as  much as I did.  My parents were always saying "How do you remember all that?"  I don’t know – I just do. I learned it – I didn’t memorize it.  Things "stick" when you learn something – especially something you’re passionate about.  Bird starts talking about psychology and her eyes dance and she remembers all she’s read.  We’ll be talking and she’ll say "Jung would have said x…" and so on.  it’s great to see because until her junior HS year she had no passion for anything except socializing and spending my money.

Therefore, we now have this kid who is intellectually very, very ready for college, but who I worry about physically being able to handle it (not to mention the emotional issues of being away from home at age 16).  

even at 18 I don’t know that they are emotionally ready for that transition.  I certainly wasn’t.  the physical issue is a fear for sure.  Bird has asthma as well as the above health problems.  with the asthma she tends to get complacent.  AFter the floods (having damaged most of the dorms to some extent) I worry that the mold level will make her sick (it’s one of the major allergens for her).  I worry she’ll be in a class, get an attack but be insistent upon not leaving. I’ve given her a cassette recorder because I worry about her energy level at times.  So, I know where you’re coming from on this.  My daughter is ready for a feeling of independence and learning but *she* is nervous about having to share space with other girls. She’s an only child, always had her own room and her own bathroom.  and she has depended a lot on me the last few years.  She likes to just sit and talk with me and will wear me out. I enjoy it too but it sure does dry out this already parched throat.  after a while I end up speaking in a monotone because that’s the only thing I can handle – this serves to lull her and the dog into a nice cozy nap.  at which point I retreat to my work or play.

We’ve sort of solved the dilemma for now by allowing her to enroll in on-line college with an accredited university for this year, and then next year agreeing that she may go away to college when she’s 17.  Still, the thought of her going away gives me the shivers.  

I have to confess I was happy when she got the scholarship to UH Honors College.  it means she isn’t at home (whew!) but she isn’t so far away that I can’t react if need be.  

She thinks nothing of it, but, as I said before, I can’t help but worry

a few weeks ago when my daughter first started getting her stuff in gear for college I was talking to my mom. I called her just to apologize.  I realized what my  mom must have gone through when I moved 1000 miles away for college.  At the time, I was oblivious to it.  I was moving to the mountains and was going to school and was going to grow up!  I remember missing home now and then, but i didn’t even consider that my mom missed me.  In fact, I remember our phone conversations were always very cheery and bright.  But when my parents moved away 3 years ago I started seeing the true "mom" – she wouldn’t call because she’d cry (and so would I) and so on.  So I got a taste of that separation anxiety then.  Now it’s in the form of being the mom watching her daughter move out.  So had to apologize to my mom for being totally unaware of the fears and sadness she experienced when her "baby" moved away.

Actually, both my husband and I worry about her being able to balance health issues with her studies.  

yes, but she’s done it this far right?  though college studies are harder and require more hours in general, the time she might have spent in other activities will likely decrease giving her the ability to balance things better.  for my daugther, she is not going to continue with Band – she did it for 7 years and she’s tired of it. It took huge amounts of her time and yet she managed to graduate with honors.  She could have done even better had she not slept through her weekends but that was probably necessary for her health.  We’ve not really figured out why she needs so much rest (again, autoimmune??) but with that sort of energy expenditure and time removed from the equation I think she’ll be fine.  fortunately, the Honors college will not allow them to take more than 16 hrs per semester, and her scholarship won’t allow less than 14 so… she’s taking 15.  A manageable number.  some kids – like your daughter perhaps? – do what I did and try to cram 17 or 21 hrs in there.  This is part of why I burned out my freshman year.  Now a lot of universities set limits thankfully.

Anyone have any reassurance to offer?  I could sure use some.

well, I can tell you that we’ll be going through similar things at the same time so any time you want to talk to me about it feel free to do so.   it’s funny – when we first "met" here your daughter was 13 I believe.  I still think of her as that young… so when you said she was off to college I was taken aback.  Time flies eh? take care, k *********************************** KCat – I am not a medical professional.  The contents of this post are based soley on my experiences and opinions http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/mypage.htm http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/aslfaq20.htm   ("`-”-/").___..–”"`-._   (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.’`)    (_Y_.)’  ._   )  `._ `. “-..-”   _..`–’_..-_/  /–’_.’ ,’ (()),-”  (()),’    (((.-’

Response:

Sandra, do you have any sites on Ehlers-Danlos?  I’ve never heard of it until I read your posts, but what you mentioned about the loose joints, thin skin and MVP makes me wonder as I have all those complete with many dislocated joints and now an Aeortic leak as well.  I also have a son who is 27 I’ve been watching because of many characteristics like mom. At times he fit some of the Marfans characteristics.  In addition I am also doing the "empty nest" thing.  I agree it is not easy  on two counts: 1. I miss the heck out of my sons and daughters-in-law; they are just fun. and 2. It makes me ponder the ‘rest of my life’ stuff.  My thoughts are with you and kcat with your daughters off the school. Thanks and hugs, Ginger

Response:

It’s a rare disease, so there aren’t a lot of links for it.  Here are a couple of good ones though that may be helpful. Ehlers-Danlos National Foundation http://www.ednf.org/ Welcome to the Canadian Ehlers Danlos Website http://www.members.home.net/ceda Sandra

Response:

In article <o7gbltgtahf3vagg3ghp5o53lu3e6lv…@4ax.com

, KCat

<kcdoc…@ghg.net

wrote

[]

In truth, I just never considered those symptoms to be an issue – I just thought it was "me" – so since my teens I’ve had fevers and back pain/chest pain and "growing pains".  

[] See http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/lupus/hughfaq.htm "helpful hint" number 1. — Andy For Austrian philately <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps/

For Lupus <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/lupus/

For my other interests <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/

Response:

Sandra, I have MVP which the doctors believe is due to the Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (Do the doctors still give her that diagnosis also?).  Sometimes one hears the click, & at other times they don’t. When I got my joints stabilized a little, they gave me a stress test & determined that my heart was OK for exercise.  I haven’t really had any problems with it, & the cardiologist here who specializes in EDS said she didn’t need to see me back unless I started having problems.  It helps to have doctors who know about both diseases.  I have Hypermobility Type, & just because someone gets diagnosed with MVP doesn’t mean he/she has Vascular Type. As another seeker of knowledge, I am pleased that your daughter has been diagnosed at a relatively early age.  I have several advanced degrees & attained them & worked in highly stressful fields without the knowledge that I had lupus & EDS, though hindsight is, of course, so helpful.  I think I could have paced better had I known beforehand…! Sue

Response:

<< I have MVP which the doctors believe is due to the Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (Do the doctors still give her that diagnosis also?).  Sometimes one hears the click, & at other times they don’t.

As far as I know, they do.  We mentioned it to her new rheumatologists.  They were skeptical at first; however, when they saw her extreme flexibility, loose joints, thin/stretchy skin, they seemed to agree.  Now that you mention it, I do recall that MVP is common with Ehlers-Danlos too.   Sandra

Response:

I though so, I have an amd too. Some programs seem to leak into the memory worse…like agent. It jsut means rebooting a bit more often. You can check your system resourses at any time by right clicking "my computer" then "properties" then click the "performance" tab. In that window it tells you what your system resourses are at the present time. Keep an eye on that for a few days. Check your resourses before and after using agent. If they are less and you’ve done nothing else in the meantime then you’ve got your culprit. I seldom shut my puter down so my resourses get down to 15% and things start behaving silly. By checking which app has the leak you know which one to reboot after using. I love amd…two of the three puters on my network are amd…one is an amd 233 and the other a 900 asus (athlon). Hope that all made sense love, catherine "KCat" <kcdoc…@ghg.net

wrote in message

news:5974ltcn38fg5shr7vqms8bsqgg3lbc7ju@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:13:06 -0700, "canuckian" <canuckyan…@spam.canada.com  wrote: Kcat, what is the processor in your computer, if you don’t mind me

asking.

Like I mean is it intel pentium 3 or celeron…or an Amd, asus, athlon or duron? Thanks:) catherine I’m fairly certain though not positive it’s an AMD – 233.  It only does this slow response thing when I open Agent while having a diskette in the drive.  I have no clue why.  And sometimes when I hit reply during this time it starts trying to access the A drive (but the drive is empty) and won’t give up until I just stop trying to reply and get out of Agent completely.  so it’s a software/processor issue – it doesn’t happen in any other s/w I use.  any clues? *********************************** KCat – I am not a medical professional.  The contents of this post are

based soley on my experiences and opinions – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/mypage.htm http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/aslfaq20.htm   ("`-”-/").___..–”"`-._   (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.’`)    (_Y_.)’  ._   )  `._ `. “-..-”   _..`–’_..-_/  /–’_.’ ,’ (()),-”  (()),’    (((.-’

Response:

Ok I’ll tell him Kcat said so…that should shut him up:) LOL "KCat" <kcdoc…@ghg.net

wrote in message

news:7g74lto5u5nroatftu1gppbkbhvqihr9o2@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:20:13 -0700, "canuckian" <canuckyan…@spam.canada.com  wrote: like that". What’s the main difference between what this doc said and

saying

"you sir, are a liar", I’d like to know. and since obviously he’s experienced every level of pain known to mankind, he would know this right?  jerk! At a recent forum a lady on the other side of the room got up to ask if

it

was necessary for her to have flu shots since she didn’t get bugs and

hadn’t

for years. Within a few minutes I was able to ask the question "Have there been any studies on the idea that many lupies don’t seem to get bugs". The doc leading the forum said "I’ll pass this on to Doctor N. He turned to me

and

said "I think it’s just you my dear". if it were "just you" then the other woman wouldn’t have asked now would she?  what an arrogant schmuck. I have the same thing – I haven’t had a cold in at least 4 years.  Before that I got sick a lot – every year had the flu, etc.  About six years ago was when the rashes and fevers started, then 5 years ago got a bad infection, but since that one mycoplasma infection of 5 years ago I’ve not had any cold or other kind of URI.  I sometimes have a sore throat for a day or a half-day.  My system just throws them off now.  And though some of it is probably the fact that I’m housebound much of the time (by choice to some extent) I still was at risk with a kid in high school and a full-time working hubby.  When they’d get sick I wouldn’t shy away from them – but still didn’t catch it. so… should you ever get the opportunity – feel free to quote me on this one "he’s full of sh*t".  :)   I have talked to lots of folks and it seems that it’s about a 50-50 split.  That may be no more so than the "normal" population.  But it’s real.  Not all lupies are susceptible to bugs.  I think it has totally to do with the nature of *your* particular illness and the meds you are taking.  IOW, you can’t say "all lupies are susceptible to infection".  and some significant number of us seem quite resistant actually. MHO of course – based on *observation* and experience.  As opposed to having had a textbook implanted in my brain and pretending like I’m God. (what? me cynical?) take care, *********************************** KCat – I am not a medical professional.  The contents of this post are

based soley on my experiences and opinions – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/mypage.htm http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/aslfaq20.htm   ("`-”-/").___..–”"`-._   (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.’`)    (_Y_.)’  ._   )  `._ `. “-..-”   _..`–’_..-_/  /–’_.’ ,’ (()),-”  (()),’    (((.-’

Response:

On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:13:06 -0700, "canuckian" <canuckyan…@spam.canada.com

 wrote: Kcat, what is the processor in your computer, if you don’t mind me asking. Like I mean is it intel pentium 3 or celeron…or an Amd, asus, athlon or duron? Thanks:) catherine

I’m fairly certain though not positive it’s an AMD – 233.  It only does this slow response thing when I open Agent while having a diskette in the drive.  I have no clue why.  And sometimes when I hit reply during this time it starts trying to access the A drive (but the drive is empty) and won’t give up until I just stop trying to reply and get out of Agent completely.  so it’s a software/processor issue – it doesn’t happen in any other s/w I use.  any clues? *********************************** KCat – I am not a medical professional.  The contents of this post are based soley on my experiences and opinions http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/mypage.htm http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/aslfaq20.htm   ("`-”-/").___..–”"`-._   (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.’`)    (_Y_.)’  ._   )  `._ `. “-..-”   _..`–’_..-_/  /–’_.’ ,’ (()),-”  (()),’    (((.-’

Response:

On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:20:13 -0700, "canuckian" <canuckyan…@spam.canada.com

 wrote: like that". What’s the main difference between what this doc said and saying "you sir, are a liar", I’d like to know.

and since obviously he’s experienced every level of pain known to mankind, he would know this right?  jerk!

At a recent forum a lady on the other side of the room got up to ask if it was necessary for her to have flu shots since she didn’t get bugs and hadn’t for years. Within a few minutes I was able to ask the question "Have there been any studies on the idea that many lupies don’t seem to get bugs". The doc leading the forum said "I’ll pass this on to Doctor N. He turned to me and said "I think it’s just you my dear".

if it were "just you" then the other woman wouldn’t have asked now would she?  what an arrogant schmuck. I have the same thing – I haven’t had a cold in at least 4 years.  Before that I got sick a lot – every year had the flu, etc.  About six years ago was when the rashes and fevers started, then 5 years ago got a bad infection, but since that one mycoplasma infection of 5 years ago I’ve not had any cold or other kind of URI.  I sometimes have a sore throat for a day or a half-day.  My system just throws them off now.  And though some of it is probably the fact that I’m housebound much of the time (by choice to some extent) I still was at risk with a kid in high school and a full-time working hubby.  When they’d get sick I wouldn’t shy away from them – but still didn’t catch it.   so… should you ever get the opportunity – feel free to quote me on this one "he’s full of sh*t".  :)   I have talked to lots of folks and it seems that it’s about a 50-50 split.  That may be no more so than the "normal" population.  But it’s real.  Not all lupies are susceptible to bugs.  I think it has totally to do with the nature of *your* particular illness and the meds you are taking.  IOW, you can’t say "all lupies are susceptible to infection".  and some significant number of us seem quite resistant actually. MHO of course – based on *observation* and experience.  As opposed to having had a textbook implanted in my brain and pretending like I’m God. (what? me cynical?) take care, *********************************** KCat – I am not a medical professional.  The contents of this post are based soley on my experiences and opinions http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/mypage.htm http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/aslfaq20.htm   ("`-”-/").___..–”"`-._   (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.’`)    (_Y_.)’  ._   )  `._ `. “-..-”   _..`–’_..-_/  /–’_.’ ,’ (()),-”  (()),’    (((.-’

Response:

KCat wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:20:13 -0700, "canuckian" <canuckyan…@spam.canada.com  wrote: like that". What’s the main difference between what this doc said and saying "you sir, are a liar", I’d like to know. and since obviously he’s experienced every level of pain known to mankind, he would know this right?  jerk! <snip so… should you ever get the opportunity – feel free to quote me on this one "he’s full of sh*t".  :)

Were you reading my mind? J

Response:

Clarification… J Wootton wrote:

<snipAnd FYI, I’ve had "bone pain" (on contact) for more years than I care to discuss here. <snip

By "on contact" I meant, on knees, leaning on elbow, under feet (feels like bone to cement) etc. J

Response:

Hi Catharine, My brother will hopefully soon be referred to a rheumy. Could you please e-mail me (the name of the dr. you are referring to). My pref would be that bro goes to Vancouver but distance could be problematic (so there’s a chance he might be referred to your same city)  and I’m hoping he can find one that he can see on a regular basis, not just a one-time diagnosis but to monitor his meds etc. Or if you have a url to all rheumys throughout BC. Tried to find such the other day, not much success.  He knows for sure there is not one in his city. OTOH there’s no accounting for taste.  One person gets along sometimes well with one physician, but not with another, I suppose. And FYI, I’ve had "bone pain" (on contact) for more years than I care to discuss here.  I got the same response when I first mentioned it, way back when, by any doctor.  My recollection is that it started in my early 20’s, about 5 years before my thyroid diagnosis, and after my son was born (estrogens etc), or that’s when it started majorly interfering with life/lifestyle. I’ve wondered if it had something to do with humidity?  As best I can remember the year I lived in Dawson Creek was the best I felt in years (healthwise). (and IIRC the cold was a "dry cold").   Other issues, are another story. What kind of bone pain was your friend referring to? Seems to make sense to me that anyone with an overactive immune system (like Lupies) would be more easily be able to fight off bugs, yes? Best, J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -canuckian wrote:

I’m so glad you found a good one. The only one here is a sexist, insensitive pig. Can you tell I dislike him intensely? It’s funny some people love him and some hate him, there’s seems to be no in between. He’s the guy that said to my friend…as my friend is describing his bone pain…no…no…no. My friend says "what do you mean "no"? The guys says "people don’t get pain like that". What’s the main difference between what this doc said and saying "you sir, are a liar", I’d like to know. At a recent forum a lady on the other side of the room got up to ask if it was necessary for her to have flu shots since she didn’t get bugs and hadn’t for years. Within a few minutes I was able to ask the question "Have there been any studies on the idea that many lupies don’t seem to get bugs". The doc leading the forum said "I’ll pass this on to Doctor N. He turned to me and said "I think it’s just you my dear". I felt two inches high and I’m sure my face flamed with embarrassment and anger but I just sat down. The guy is a major creep so I’m glad you got a good one. love, catherine "SCroyle909" <scroyle…@aol.com wrote in message news:20010714203207.26094.00003784@ng-fb1.aol.com… My daughter just got yet another new rheumatologist.  We saw him for the first time this past week.  Actually, first we saw a rheumatology fellow (at least I’m pretty sure that’s what he was), and then the staff rheumatologist. We couldn’t have been more pleased.  We’ve been very fortunate in our experiences with rheumatologists over the years in that we’ve never had one we didn’t like. There’s always a little bit of fear and uncertainty when you’re changing doctors.  You don’t know whether they’re going to agree with the others, want to change your therapy and so on.  These though basically agreed with what we’d been doing with my daughter’s therapy.  The visit was long but there were no particular problems except for one thing. There was a new finding on my daughter.  It appears she now has a mid-systolic click in her heart.  That’s a completely new finding.  I’m assuming it means she may have mitral valve prolapse.  That in itself isn’t something dangerous, but it’s new nonetheless and so somewhat disturbing.  She has enough problems. I hate it when something else develops even if it is relatively benign. Sandra

Response:

I’m so glad you found a good one. The only one here is a sexist, insensitive pig. Can you tell I dislike him intensely? It’s funny some people love him and some hate him, there’s seems to be no in between. He’s the guy that said to my friend…as my friend is describing his bone pain…no…no…no. My friend says "what do you mean "no"? The guys says "people don’t get pain like that". What’s the main difference between what this doc said and saying "you sir, are a liar", I’d like to know. At a recent forum a lady on the other side of the room got up to ask if it was necessary for her to have flu shots since she didn’t get bugs and hadn’t for years. Within a few minutes I was able to ask the question "Have there been any studies on the idea that many lupies don’t seem to get bugs". The doc leading the forum said "I’ll pass this on to Doctor N. He turned to me and said "I think it’s just you my dear". I felt two inches high and I’m sure my face flamed with embarrassment and anger but I just sat down. The guy is a major creep so I’m glad you got a good one. love, catherine "SCroyle909" <scroyle…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20010714203207.26094.00003784@ng-fb1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

My daughter just got yet another new rheumatologist.  We saw him for the

first

time this past week.  Actually, first we saw a rheumatology fellow (at

least

I’m pretty sure that’s what he was), and then the staff rheumatologist.

We

couldn’t have been more pleased.  We’ve been very fortunate in our

experiences

with rheumatologists over the years in that we’ve never had one we didn’t

like.

There’s always a little bit of fear and uncertainty when you’re changing doctors.  You don’t know whether they’re going to agree with the others,

want

to change your therapy and so on.  These though basically agreed with what

we’d

been doing with my daughter’s therapy.  The visit was long but there were

no

particular problems except for one thing. There was a new finding on my daughter.  It appears she now has a

mid-systolic

click in her heart.  That’s a completely new finding.  I’m assuming it

means

she may have mitral valve prolapse.  That in itself isn’t something

dangerous,

but it’s new nonetheless and so somewhat disturbing.  She has enough

problems.

I hate it when something else develops even if it is relatively benign. Sandra

Response:

Sandy, Glad that you like the new rheumy…as that is so important.  So sorry to hear that they have discovered another problem.  As a mother I can understand your concern and being disturbed and upset by yet another problem.  But thankfully she has parents that keep up with everything and stay on top of it all.  She is very fortunate to have you!!!! Sherry

Response:

Sandra so glad things worked out with the new doctor.  I know how scarey that can be, been there done that thing.  Many times. Here is hopeing that click is nothing serious and they at least check it out.  Maybe an ECHO to see how the blood flows and muscle works????  Did they do a EKG? My nurse mode hit me again Sorry, I am sure you and Hubby went through all that and you don’t need me to ask more questions Thinking of you and family, and sending good thoughts. janers

Response:

Kcat, what is the processor in your computer, if you don’t mind me asking. Like I mean is it intel pentium 3 or celeron…or an Amd, asus, athlon or duron? Thanks:) catherine "KCat" <kcdoc…@ghg.net

wrote in message

news:rft1ltko2i4lup6c8ue14b2mel7ph1ct09@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi Sandra. Mine has MVP as well.  A pretty solid murmur with it.  the biggest concerns being fatigue and over time, enlargement o the left atrium. we had her on a Ca2+ blocker for a while but it didn’t resolve any of her symptoms so we had to assume that the sytmptoms were probably not related to teh MVP but a result of her asthma or some othe rissue. sorry if the spelling is messed up – my keyboard and my screen are not keeping up with each other.  think I need to reboot.  anywhow.   I know this is frsutrating.. yet another concern. opinion?  my daughter doesn’t ahve lupus or anything like it to our knowledge but does have hypothyroidism and the MVP.  She has suddenly started having some hormonal problems with her skin (after years of perfect, ivory skin) and the first line of defense isn’t working so the next is an oral antibiotic.  How do you feel regarding such a think for a young girl with autoimmune family history? this is irritating I have no idea if I’ve made a typo until some 10 seconds later. so that’s al for today.  take care angood luck with the new doc. On 15 Jul 2001 00:32:07 GMT, scroyle…@aol.com (SCroyle909)  wrote: My daughter just got yet another new rheumatologist.  We saw him for the

first

time this past week.  Actually, first we saw a rheumatology fellow (at

least

I’m pretty sure that’s what he was), and then the staff rheumatologist.

We

couldn’t have been more pleased.  We’ve been very fortunate in our

experiences

with rheumatologists over the years in that we’ve never had one we didn’t

like.

There’s always a little bit of fear and uncertainty when you’re changing doctors.  You don’t know whether they’re going to agree with the others,

want

to change your therapy and so on.  These though basically agreed with

what we’d

been doing with my daughter’s therapy.  The visit was long but there were

no

particular problems except for one thing. There was a new finding on my daughter.  It appears she now has a

mid-systolic

click in her heart.  That’s a completely new finding.  I’m assuming it

means

she may have mitral valve prolapse.  That in itself isn’t something

dangerous,

but it’s new nonetheless and so somewhat disturbing.  She has enough

problems.

I hate it when something else develops even if it is relatively benign. Sandra *********************************** KCat – I am not a medical professional.  The contents of this post are

based soley on my experiences and opinions – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/mypage.htm http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/aslfaq20.htm   ("`-”-/").___..–”"`-._   (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.’`)    (_Y_.)’  ._   )  `._ `. “-..-”   _..`–’_..-_/  /–’_.’ ,’ (()),-”  (()),’    (((.-’

Response:

Hi Sandra.   Mine has MVP as well.  A pretty solid murmur with it.  the biggest concerns being fatigue and over time, enlargement o the left atrium. we had her on a Ca2+ blocker for a while but it didn’t resolve any of her symptoms so we had to assume that the sytmptoms were probably not related to teh MVP but a result of her asthma or some othe rissue.   sorry if the spelling is messed up – my keyboard and my screen are not keeping up with each other.  think I need to reboot.  anywhow.   I know this is frsutrating.. yet another concern. opinion?  my daughter doesn’t ahve lupus or anything like it to our knowledge but does have hypothyroidism and the MVP.  She has suddenly started having some hormonal problems with her skin (after years of perfect, ivory skin) and the first line of defense isn’t working so the next is an oral antibiotic.  How do you feel regarding such a think for a young girl with autoimmune family history? this is irritating I have no idea if I’ve made a typo until some 10 seconds later. so that’s al for today.  take care angood luck with the new doc. On 15 Jul 2001 00:32:07 GMT, scroyle…@aol.com (SCroyle909)  wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

My daughter just got yet another new rheumatologist.  We saw him for the first time this past week.  Actually, first we saw a rheumatology fellow (at least I’m pretty sure that’s what he was), and then the staff rheumatologist.  We couldn’t have been more pleased.  We’ve been very fortunate in our experiences with rheumatologists over the years in that we’ve never had one we didn’t like. There’s always a little bit of fear and uncertainty when you’re changing doctors.  You don’t know whether they’re going to agree with the others, want to change your therapy and so on.  These though basically agreed with what we’d been doing with my daughter’s therapy.  The visit was long but there were no particular problems except for one thing. There was a new finding on my daughter.  It appears she now has a mid-systolic click in her heart.  That’s a completely new finding.  I’m assuming it means she may have mitral valve prolapse.  That in itself isn’t something dangerous, but it’s new nonetheless and so somewhat disturbing.  She has enough problems. I hate it when something else develops even if it is relatively benign.   Sandra

*********************************** KCat – I am not a medical professional.  The contents of this post are based soley on my experiences and opinions http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/mypage.htm http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/aslfaq20.htm   ("`-”-/").___..–”"`-._   (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.’`)    (_Y_.)’  ._   )  `._ `. “-..-”   _..`–’_..-_/  /–’_.’ ,’ (()),-”  (()),’    (((.-’

Response:

Hi Sandra, I also have a MVP, and like Bruce, I also take antibiotics before dental work(even cleaning)on the advice of my cardiologist. They also gave it to me before my colonoscopies. BJ "Bruce" <bla…@chartermi.net

wrote in message

news:3B50408B.43D0F88A@chartermi.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Sandra.. I have a minor mitral valve prolapse which isn’t at all serious.  Even so, after reading the American Dental Association and American Medical Association statements on the subject, I always take a gram of amoxycillin one hour before any dental procedures (or any other invasive procedures which can cause bleeding, other than injections). You might want to ask your physician about that.  In some cases, mitral valve prolapse predisposes one to bacterial endocarditis and valve damage. — Bruce, Michigan

Response:

Sandra.. I have a minor mitral valve prolapse which isn’t at all serious.  Even so, after reading the American Dental Association and American Medical Association statements on the subject, I always take a gram of amoxycillin one hour before any dental procedures (or any other invasive procedures which can cause bleeding, other than injections). You might want to ask your physician about that.  In some cases, mitral valve prolapse predisposes one to bacterial endocarditis and valve damage. — Bruce, Michigan

Response:

My daughter just got yet another new rheumatologist.  We saw him for the first time this past week.  Actually, first we saw a rheumatology fellow (at least I’m pretty sure that’s what he was), and then the staff rheumatologist.  We couldn’t have been more pleased.  We’ve been very fortunate in our experiences with rheumatologists over the years in that we’ve never had one we didn’t like. There’s always a little bit of fear and uncertainty when you’re changing doctors.  You don’t know whether they’re going to agree with the others, want to change your therapy and so on.  These though basically agreed with what we’d been doing with my daughter’s therapy.  The visit was long but there were no particular problems except for one thing. There was a new finding on my daughter.  It appears she now has a mid-systolic click in her heart.  That’s a completely new finding.  I’m assuming it means she may have mitral valve prolapse.  That in itself isn’t something dangerous, but it’s new nonetheless and so somewhat disturbing.  She has enough problems. I hate it when something else develops even if it is relatively benign.   Sandra

Response:

Question:

I am 39 . I was having really bad anxiety attacks and low moods .  Went to a psychiatrist , was diagnosed with ADD. Am taking ritalin and zoloft. Have never felt better and in tune with the world around me. Looking for adders to talk with however bad or good your experience has been.

Response:

Just started taking Ritalin myslef.  Like night and day.  I’m still taking prozac and buspar.  I sent my doctor a huge thank-you card and a box of chocolates.  I’m 30 now, but I’ve felt lousy since I was about 10.  I’ve been on and off anti-depressants since around age 20.  I’m trying to focus on the positive side of ADD symptoms.  I found this neat website. http://www.borntoexplore.org/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am 39 . I was having really bad anxiety attacks and low moods .  Went to a psychiatrist , was diagnosed with ADD. Am taking ritalin and zoloft. Have never felt better and in tune with the world around me. Looking for adders to talk with however bad or good your experience has been.

Response:

Alcog, I’m 41, diagnosed a year ago.  This has been the best year of my life, and worst year.  I’m going through a divorce and that has been painful, lots of doubts, concerns for future, etc.  The diagnoses and med  has really helped me to understand myself and to make good decisions. And it has helped remove some of the guilt I felt. I had taken Zoloft prior to seperation because of depression.  Looking back now, it really didn’t work for me.  I take Adderal and it works great, no persistant side effects.   I am 39 . I was having really bad anxiety attacks and low moods .

My psych has told me I have an anxiety disorder, which I don’t see in myself. Maybe you can explain better then he. As far as your low moods,  do you mean grumpy or do you mean depression?   I haven’t seen anyone else on this NG mentions Tyroid problems, but my psych checked mine and it was low. He and my councelor (I go do both, I’m a perfectionist I want to be perfect, joke)  and they both agreed that low tyroid can cause depression.  Just wanted you to be aware of that. good luck Charlie

Response:

I just got diagnosed and they also put me on adderall 5mg  twice a day it made me almost sleepy and a little edgy (maybe it was pms?) So they said to cut the dose in half – now I can’t tell any thing. I am 41 – any suggestions? I wonder if ritalin would work better – I guess I just hear so much more about that.

Response:

Different people respond to different meds in different ways; and some people take longer to find the right combination. I was diagnosed 5 years ago as ADHD (combined type), but didn’t know that I had a full blown Anxiety Disorder along with the ADHD ( anxiety, or depression, are pretty common partners with the ADHD/ADD ).     I went through Ritalin, Cylert; then found Dexedrine spansules, which are the cheapest stimulants, and I my humble opinion the most effective. I use the dex for " focus", or "concentration", but it doesn’t help much with the anxiety. After trying 4 SSRI’s, and Effexor, I finally tried Wellbutrin. Actually I used Zyban which is Wellbutrin marketed as a "smoking cessation aid". It has an interesting side effect – it blocks the symptoms of nicotine withdrawal, and it has really calmed down the " drivenness ", or " antsy" feeling I always had.( by the way I quit smoking 8 months ago, and haven’t missed it at all!     As I’ve discovered more about my particular ADHD version, I have had to come to grips with the damage I’ve done, especially to myself! I wasn’t able to do anything about the ADHD when I was unaware of it, but I’m still the one who has to deal with the consequences, and I’m not happy about the consequences! The attitudes of non- ADHD people frequently appear to very judgemental, and critical, toward people who have it. There somtimes appears to be an attitude of " Punish the SOB’s" until they do things our way!"     Robert Heinlein’s classic book " Stranger in a Strange Land" always struck a chord with me – after being diagnosed I understood why! davadd

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just got diagnosed and they also put me on adderall 5mg  twice a day it made me almost sleepy and a little edgy (maybe it was pms?) So they said to cut the dose in half – now I can’t tell any thing. I am 41 – any suggestions? I wonder if ritalin would work better – I guess I just hear so much more about that.

Response:

When I first started on Adderal I had the same side affects you discribe. "edgy and sleepy" Check around, but I thought that if it makes you sleepy, that means you aren’t taking enough. I take 20mgs 2-3 times  per day.  I find I’m sleepy if I forget my afternoon dose.   Edgy?  I basically had PMS for 1 1/2 months.   My doc. explained it this way.  The med. makes focus easier and clearer, including your feelings.  Have you ever been in the situation where someone is hurtful, but you don’t know how to respond or even how you feel?  Then 15 minutes or 2 days later you think of the response or understand how you feel.   When I strarted on Adderal, I had clarity that wasn’t there before and while the new memory and focus at work were easy to handle, the new clear feelings took a while to adjust. At the time I was going thru a bad part of my divorce.. My ex was used to quiet little-old-me listening and taking a day or 2  to think, and by then he would have done something else really stupid and I’d be diverted away from the past event and onto the new.  With my med, I figured it out right away.   Oh man, there were a couple of times I really  let him have it.  He he he. Don’t pity him.  There is something evil about a spouse that uses your indecision and sensitivity against you. I’ve been on Adderal one year, and have no side effects. I’m 41 too.  :) Good luck, Charlie Lee wrote.  I just got diagnosed and they also put me on adderall 5mg  twice a day it – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -made me almost sleepy and a little edgy (maybe it was pms?) So they said to cut the dose in half – now I can’t tell any thing. I am 41 – any suggestions? I wonder if ritalin would work better – I guess I just hear so much more about that.

Response:

It is interesting that you are taking prozac and buspar.  My doctor before I went to a psychiatrist had put me on buspar and zoloft because he had me as someone with anxiety and depression when two days later I had another pretty bad anxiety attack I decided to see a psychiatrist. It was he hold told me I had ADD and that the buspar would do nothing for the type of ADD anxiety attacks I was having.  Has the buspar helped you with the anxiety attacks.  Also has the prozac worked for you,  of the antideps prozac is the most stimulating.  I found that it was actually like taking a weight off my chest when I found out that I had ADD, it filled in a lot of the holes that I had in my life and removed many of the cobwebs . By focusing on this relief aspect of the diagnosis I found it much easier to accept my condition and to continue the rest of the journey with a new found confidence.

Response:

Now that you mention it maybe Ishould also have my thyroid levels checked out. Now since your thyroid levels are low do you have to take a special thyroid med or does what you are taking now take care of that?  I found a tremondous amount of relief when I got the diagnosis also, here I thought all my problems were due to a character flaw which I was getting very hard on myself for which is probably where the depression came in.  As for this depression it was of the type that it would hit me when I was alone or not involved in some sort of activity, I would feel unmotivated like a sort of mental paralysis.

Response:

One of my biggest problems with me having ADD is who to tell and not to tell. It seems that in this world certain people relish at the thought of someone else having a certain weakness and they will capitalize on it to help them feel better about their own insecurities.

Response:

Sometimes the first med you take might not be the best one for you . You will not know till you try something else. My first med was ritalin and it has worked fine for me , but my psych said that if it does not work there are other ones to try. Usually ritalin is the 1st med given.  Why did you start on adderall? If adderall is a stimulant med then you definitely will feel a little edginess,  as with any upper type drug. I know that if you have problems with edginess if you take ritalin they would give you a beta blocker to help alleviate some of the edginess. Also do you have any of the other symptoms that can usually exist with ADD like depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsion or something else. Many  ADD people find they have to take 2 different meds to take care of the complications that can arise from having ADD.

Response:

I myself do not know how to respond when someone is hurtful. My psych said it is because people with ADD do not usually let remarks roll off their back as easily as other people would.  It is almost like having a delayed response and then having it play in slow motion over and over again in your brain later on.  

Response:

Now that you mention it maybe Ishould also have my thyroid levels checked out. Now since your thyroid levels are low do you have to take a special thyroid med or does what you are taking now take care of that?  

I take .15mg of Synthroid per day, as well as Adderal. The thryroid gland measures the amount of adrenaline in the blood and tells the Adrenal gland when to release more. Adrenaline is responsible for…. actually I don’t know for sure…. Okay I went and looked it up.  The adrenal glands secrete Ephinephrine which, when released into the  blood  increases the strength and rate of the heartbeat and raises the blood pressure.  It also speeds up the conversion of glycogen into glucose, which provides energy to muscles.     This makes since.  I have below normal blood preasure in the first place, and when I was suffering from depression all I wanted to do was sleep.  Must have needed more glucose in the old muscles. Let me warn you about something.  When I was diagnosed with depression, 4 years ago, the pysch tested my thyroid and it was fine.  She perscribed Zoloft.  It didn’t work, but I wanted so badly to get better, I just hung in there and willed myself out.  ( I can say it didn’t work, because of the difference between then and now ) I got off Zoloft after one year.  Went in for a physical and again the General Doc. tested my thyroid.  It was normal.  Two months later went to a new pysch. He diagnosed my ADD and re-ran the Thyroid.  I told him I had just been tested.  He told me there are two kinds of tests.  The test that is usually given, measures the amount of thyroid in the blood.  This is where I test normal.  The second test measures how well your adrenal gland absorbs the tyroid.  My adrenal gland in under-effeciant or something.  (please understand I am paraphrasing this, I don’t mean to insult any doc.) Now to finish this very long story.  Three months later I had a follow-up with the General .  He was sceptic about the thyroid diagnosis, so we re-ran it. Guess what.  He agreed with the psych.   It help me.  Good luck

Response:

I, too, had a stupid Dr. who tried to give me Zoloft when in fact, my thyroid had died.  I’m still ADD, but I have my old energy back.  I take both T3 and T4, which helps with mood a great deal.  And, I got my insuance co. to drop from their preferred provider list  the original MD who ignored my thyroid problem. That sort of misdiagnosis is sub-standard care, and I would have had her license if I could have. Kate Coe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now that you mention it maybe Ishould also have my thyroid levels checked out. Now since your thyroid levels are low do you have to take a special thyroid med or does what you are taking now take care of that? I take .15mg of Synthroid per day, as well as Adderal. The thryroid gland measures the amount of adrenaline in the blood and tells the Adrenal gland when to release more. Adrenaline is responsible for…. actually I don’t know for sure…. Okay I went and looked it up.  The adrenal glands secrete Ephinephrine which, when released into the  blood  increases the strength and rate of the heartbeat and raises the blood pressure.  It also speeds up the conversion of glycogen into glucose, which provides energy to muscles. This makes since.  I have below normal blood preasure in the first place, and when I was suffering from depression all I wanted to do was sleep.  Must have needed more glucose in the old muscles. Let me warn you about something.  When I was diagnosed with depression, 4 years ago, the pysch tested my thyroid and it was fine.  She perscribed Zoloft.  It didn’t work, but I wanted so badly to get better, I just hung in there and willed myself out.  ( I can say it didn’t work, because of the difference between then and now ) I got off Zoloft after one year.  Went in for a physical and again the General Doc. tested my thyroid.  It was normal.  Two months later went to a new pysch. He diagnosed my ADD and re-ran the Thyroid.  I told him I had just been tested.  He told me there are two kinds of tests.  The test that is usually given, measures the amount of thyroid in the blood.  This is where I test normal.  The second test measures how well your adrenal gland absorbs the tyroid.  My adrenal gland in under-effeciant or something.  (please understand I am paraphrasing this, I don’t mean to insult any doc.) Now to finish this very long story.  Three months later I had a follow-up with the General .  He was sceptic about the thyroid diagnosis, so we re-ran it. Guess what.  He agreed with the psych. It help me.  Good luck

Response:

Question:

Greetings! I am trying to make contact with others who have Dx of PA and also suffer thyroid disease and must use hormone replacement. I found out I had Graves in 92 and had RAI to destroy the gland and now must always use a replacement. Prior to the thyroid, I had no trouble with depression or anxiety and now it is a vicious cycle between the two extremes. I can’t even get my endocrinologist to acknowledge a connection! On the other hand, the psychiatrists all agree that it is related but do not treat the thyroid! (I am in the AF military health care system, now an HMO type operation with no choice as to who I can see)Thanks so much!! PS I know I have "talked" to mudospun and Gwen but did not save addresses, so if either of you ladies are reading, I would love to hear from you again, Blessings, Debbie

Response:

Debbie, I have panic anxiety and also have Graves which was radiated in 1985. I have never been told that there is a connection.  I believe I have always had anxiety disorder but it got worse as I got older.  Before the doctors found out I had Graves I was a wreck.  Thought I was having a nerveous breakdown.  Lost weight ,cried and scared out of my wits.  I didn’t start having anxiety attacks that were severe until 1991.  I am also in the military health care system but we have several doctors to chose from.  I have never really ask the question if the two (thyroid and anxiety)are related but will the next time I see a doctor.  I take synthroid everyday and my levels are always great when checked.  I went a period from 1995 to 96 without meds for anxiety but had to be put back on in March of this year.  Take Zoloft50mg and Xanax as needed.  I am doing ok.   Be glad to talk to you anytime. Unj

Response:

hi all I too take a synthroid.. no graves disease but have hypothroidism and also on prozac and when not pregnant..xanax….got a dr. appt this morning ..will write more later.. debbie..i’m also in the military health care system USMC.. take care Tami

Response:

Hi Debbie, I have had anxiety/panic disorder since 1981. I battled it on and off until 1989. In 1989 I did  group therapy, called terrap. I had much success with this. The time period from 1989 until 1996 was great, I was happy and 100% percent functional, probably one of the best periods in my life.  I am not saying I never had a anxious moment or a panic attack, the tools I learned in terrap helped get through any minor setback I had, which were few. Then in the beginning of 1996, I wasn`t feeling right, moody, down, exhausted and I started feeling anxious for no reason. This continued until May, then I had the most unrelenting anxiety and panic I have ever had. It never let up,and I wasnt sleeping. My memory was terrible and I couldn`t concentrate at all. Sounds like anxiety, and thats what I kept telling myself. I could also feel a lump in my throat when I swallowed. I went to the doctor at my families urging, and he took blood and checked my thyroid. It came back hypo, and he said it was quite serious. I was put on synthroid, and it took 5 months to get me level. I have to say I never really felt myself, even being level. I had low grade anxiety, with occasional panic attacks. I still felt tired, never did get back my energy level. This went on like this until last fall, my avoidance behavior started again. The tools I learned in terrap were of no use to me. I was fustrated and scared, because no matter how much I pushed myself to go food shopping and not panic, I always did. It snowballed out of control, and in March I went to the therpaist I had in terrap. I only wanted a therapist who`s specialty is anxiety, and she knew me. She wanted me to go on paxil, which I did, and I now take 20mgs. I can honestly say, Ihaven`t felt this good in along time. I feel like myself, like  before my thyroid diagnosis. I still don`t have my energy level back, but I quess I can accept that. I always felt my thyroid problems threw my body chemistry off,and was a player in my two year setback with anxiety, but my doctor will not agree. At alt.support. thyroid, there are many people either hyper or hypo that complain of anxiety/panic/depression, too many for there not to be a connection. Even people who are on synthroid  and level, claim they don`t feel right. I too, debated going on armour,but I know my doctor would refuse, and I am scared a little too. I thought I would share this. I have a sister that lives in Arizona, she has never had anxiety problems. She had a baby in 1996. She didn`t feel right after the birth, tired, rundown, rages and moody. She was having alot of signs of OCD, like counting, checking, etc. The OCD symptoms were so bad, the doctors felt she was close to being suicidal, she was also huritng herself. She went to a psychiatrist, and was diagnosed with postpartum depression and OCD. She was suppose to follow up with the psychiatrist, but she felt she could handle it on her own. She couldn`t, so she had to go to her regular doctor, he concurred with the diagnoses and put her on prozac. While she was at the doctor, she mentioned that I had been diagnosed with hypothyroidism. To be on the safe side , he tested her, and her results came back hypo. He put her on synthroid, and weaned he off the prozac. She has been fine!! Makes you wonder if the thyroid caused all of her problems. She just has another baby, I am curious to see how she does, and told her she must take the synthroid, and have her levels checked. Its pretty common for your thyroid to fail after a baby or during menopause. Many women have been diagnosed with postpartum depression, when it was their thyroid. I am sorry if I babbled on, but I always  suspected my thyroid had a part to play in  my latest setback. And i am not quite sure that synthroid makes you feel a hundred percent. E-mail anytime. Take Care Jackie

Response:

Gosh I find this all very interesting.  I never even thought about these two being related.  It sounds like from the responses that there is that possibility.  I know you thyroid gland regulates alot of things.  I am going to visit the web site that you listed.  Like I say my blood levels have always been fine.  I was panic free for about 2 years tho after I was treated for Graves.  

Response:

A Doc should do bloodwork to determine if there is a thyroid problem before any other treatment is started…mine did….becky

Response:

Question:

Difficulty swallowing is a definite sign of thyroid problems. Have you tried Armour? (natural thyroid) Proper thyroid function may require both synthetic and natural thyroid. Many doctors will not mix the two, but there is no reason they can’t. And your body just might respond better! I assume that radioactive iodine managed to reverse your hyper problem to a hypo. But what affect did it have on your ovaries? It will make a man sterile! Allergies are an autoimmune reaction where the body thinks pollen, dust, foods, or whatever, are destroying the body. The body sends out the army to destroy the enemy. Only your thoughts know that it was not an enemy. Kinda the same thing that happens in Lupus! Just curious, but what are your TSH numbers? True, prednisone causes brittle bones, errosion of the large joints, and a host of many other problems, almost all of them irreversible. But no or very low TSH causes bone problems exactly like those you describe. Could be a catch twenty-two. Methotrexate, if tolerated by the body, is a much safer way begin treatment of Lupus, rather than steroids. I’m sure that time will prove this. The side effects of Methotrexate are reversible and disappear soon after stopping treatment. Anyway, it sounds like you are in pretty rough shape right now. Don’t give up, though. I’ve seen it about as bad as you described and was once bedridden, graduated to a wheelchair and, then, out of complete and total disrespect for every thing I had been taught by every doctor, nurse, therapist, etc., I began teaching myself to walk. Been walking more than two years, now. Haven’t lost a pound, though! I still use a wheelchair in large stores, but the embarrassment I have always felt from being a "freak" keeps me out of the chair as much as possible. Lupus can be a death sentence, and just a few short years ago, it always meant death. It is not hereditary, they say. My mother is RF positive, she had an aunt with Lupus who died after 16 years of bedsores in a nursing home. One more thing before I close. Could the radioactive iodine mess up your platelets? My older brother by two years was in Belgium when Chernobal melted down. He received an unknown dose of radiation. Guess what. He has your platelet problem!   ’tis all for now. Mr. G…

Response:

Hello.  I am new to this newsgroup.  I am wondering if anyone has any information relating to a possible connection between SLE and thyroid disorders?  Specifically hypothyroidism and possibly thyroiditis.  I have recently been having problems swallowing, and its a long story, but I think it is connected to my hypothyroidism and allergies in some way…which I also feel is connected to the lupus.  (they all seem to be tied to the immune system.) A little background.  My Rheumatologist tentatively diagnosed me with SLE about 8 years ago.  Only symptoms were hi ANA count and arthritic symptoms in feet and hands.  Recently began to have Raynauds in one finger, and was diagnosed hypothyroidic.  Also began having allergy problems after moving to Dallas about 14 years ago.  Just wondering if there is a connection between this rapid decline in general health! Any thoughts on any possible relationships would be appreciated.  Also, if there are some FAQs that I should read, please point me in the right direction. Many thanks, Lisa Irvin

Response:

Lisa, from the book "The Lupus Book, A Guide for Lupus Patients and Their Families", Dr. Wallace writes that people with lupus are at a higher risk of getting other autoimmune diseases and he does list autoimmune thyroiditis (Graves’ disease or Hashimoto’s thyroiditis), RA, and scleroderma.  I don’t know where hypothyroidism falls, so will email you a website that might be of more help. Good Luck, Margaret

Response:

Well, I tried to email you a website, but it came back, so here’s the old-fashioned way: http://www.mtio.com/docboard/docboard.html It’s the MCLFA Lupus Forum, Ask A Doc site.

Response:

M B wrote:

Lisa, from the book "The Lupus Book, A Guide for Lupus Patients and Their Families", Dr. Wallace writes that people with lupus are at a higher risk of getting other autoimmune diseases and he does list autoimmune thyroiditis (Graves’ disease or Hashimoto’s thyroiditis), RA, and scleroderma.  I don’t know where hypothyroidism falls, so will email you a website that might be of more help. Good Luck, Margaret

   Margaret!!!  Please post the website, or send it to me too.  I would really be interested in it.  I have (or had prior to surgery) hyperthyroidism, and my lupus was a side effect of the thyroid medication I was on.  Lucky aren’t I…sigh.

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Hi, Lisa, I am just a fellow patient, but I know there is a  connection between lupus and thyroid problems, or the allergy problems but I can tell you that I am not just diagnosed with lupus, but also have severe asthma, HAD hyperthyroidism which was treated with radioactive iodine and I now take synthroid, have raynoud’s and sjogren’s with the lupus, and severe osetoporosis.  I have been on steriods for over 13 years.   I have taken probably ever drug there is to treat these disorders, including several types of cytoxic drugs, plaquenil, nsaids, immunogammuglobulins….so much chemo-type drugs that they litterally destroyed my ovaries and I have to take hormone replacements. Don’t mean to scare you or anyone else out there but want to put out a warning to those on prednisone…because of it, the osteoporosis developed.  I had a spontaneous fracture of a vertebrae in December. I had to have surgery, rods put in and bone grafts.  I have to wear a hard, totally encasing backbrace from hips to armpits except when in bed and am mostly confined to a wheelchair, though now I can walk. For some reason, after the surgery, I "crashed" and almost died…was going into total system failure.  Was on an airjet ventilator for almost a month.  Due to heart damage during this time, I have congestive heart failure and for one of these many reasons/problems I now only have 50% lung capacity and am on home oxygen.  Something odd happened to my blood and I had continually dangerously low platelet levels for weeks…got almost daily blood or platelet transfusions. It was four months before I got to come home.  One theory is that I was not given a enough extra prednisone "coverage" before the surgery was done. Steriods are very bad things.  This wasn’t my first spontaneous fracture, and yes, I was taking calcium and vit. D, and etidronate. Didn’t help me.  I am only 29.  The first problem was the lupus, then allergies, the asthma diagnosis, the thyroid diagnosis, then the spontaneous fractures began.  I can honestly not tell you how any of the bones were broken. If you think you are developing additional health problems, attend to them as soon as possible.  It was difficult for me to do so, because of lack of medical insurance until this January.  You do not want things to start snowballing.  If YOU feel something is wrong, and a doctor doesn’t, keep looking till you find someone who will help.  I reported my back pain to my doctor and requested x-rays…which were deniged.  I went home and got weaker and weaker, started falling…fell and couldn’t get up on Christmas Day. Oh, I do have documentation of a connection of thyroid disease and lupus…from : THE LUPUS BOOK A Guide for Patients and Their Families Daniel J. Wallace, M.D. "Autoimmune disease of the thyroid is characterized by detectable levels of antithyroid antibodies in the blood.  Clinically manifested as Graves’ disease or Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, autoimmune thyroid disease initially appears as hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid) and ultimately developes into hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid). Approximately 10 percent of lupus patients have thyroid antibodies, and autoimmune thyroiditis occasionally coexists with SLE…. Wether or not autoimmune thyroiditis is present, some 1 to 15% of those with SLE studied at any point are hyperthyroid and 1 to 10% are hypothyroid.  In other words, thyroid abnormalities are commonly noted in lupus and are related to antithyroid antibodies about half of the time." Take care, and listen to your body.  It doesn’t lie. Sharon On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:02:13 -0500, Lisa Irvin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<lisa.ir…@ons.lucent.com

wrote: Hello.  I am new to this newsgroup.  I am wondering if anyone has any information relating to a possible connection between SLE and thyroid disorders?  Specifically hypothyroidism and possibly thyroiditis.  I have recently been having problems swallowing, and its a long story, but I think it is connected to my hypothyroidism and allergies in some way…which I also feel is connected to the lupus.  (they all seem to be tied to the immune system.) A little background.  My Rheumatologist tentatively diagnosed me with SLE about 8 years ago.  Only symptoms were hi ANA count and arthritic symptoms in feet and hands.  Recently began to have Raynauds in one finger, and was diagnosed hypothyroidic.  Also began having allergy problems after moving to Dallas about 14 years ago.  Just wondering if there is a connection between this rapid decline in general health! Any thoughts on any possible relationships would be appreciated.  Also, if there are some FAQs that I should read, please point me in the right direction. Many thanks, Lisa Irvin

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Question:

good Article on Seizures in the Dec AKC Gazette

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My shitzu (Angel) has had seizures for the past 2 years.  She is currently four years old and now taking Phenobarbitol 1 and 1/2 tablets day – 1/4pr?).  She was previously taking only one tablet, but she still had seizures so our vet increased the dosage after taking blood tests. When she has the seizures, it seems like they are relatively short (10 minutes), but as she comes around she goes right back into them and this can continue for over an hour.  She has vomited in the worst ones.  It also seems like she does worse when I am around and trying to comfort her?  Can I be more of a detriment to her and should I just leave her alone? Also….we have a pet door and I am concerned of what affect these are if she has them when we aren’t home to monitor her and get her to a vet?  We have always taken her to the vet (except this last time).  Is this normal, or will she come out of it if left alone?  It just scares the heck out of me when she tries to get up and runs into the furniture and I am very concerned about these happening if we aren’t home.   Do phenobarbitol have side effects worth noting? Thanks…

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I don’t know how much this info will help you but maybe it will somehow. We used to have a wire haired fox terrier who was diagnosed with epilepsy at around 3 years old.  My husband decided against giving him medicine as it just doped him up.  Instead we lived with the seizures – we could normally predict when they would happen – normally after a "stressful" time which could be a visit from someone or construction workers in the street.  He lived until he was 13 – he had slipped a disc (he had skin allergies and apparently the steroids over the years had caused his bones to soften).  Anyway…. I digress.  Our current dog, a black dog/lab-shepard mix had a seizure one night.  It was right after we were working in our new house, sanding and painting. When we took her back to the old house, she collapsed on the sofa.  She was also about 3 at the time so we thought we had incredibly bad luck to have another epileptic dog.  Instead it must have been a small amount of ingested lead paint (the house in circa 1947).  She had only one more seizure a few months later but has never had another one since.  It’s been six years since we moved in here! You mentioned the hardwood floors being redone.   I’m hoping that your dog’s seizures were externally caused as ours was.   You might want to consult the vets that are online on AOL too.   B.

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Recent postings on this topic seem to indicate that folks don’t know that there is a Canine Epilepsy Email List.  Send email to join it, per: You may have to put the "Subscribe EPIL-K9 LIST" in the body instead of the subject. — David Presberg

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for any information I can find regarding canine seizures. This is how I found your message…surfing the net looking for anything to do with this subject. I have a 2 year old English Mastiff who had his 1st Gran-Mal seizure 1 month ago and his 2nd this am.  I am very upset, I had just finished his Championship 4 days prior to his 1st episode.  His 1st seizure occured at the same time I was having my hardwood floors refinished in my house. There was a strong polyurethane smell in the house at the time.  I live in Central NY and it is cold, did not have windows open for alot of ventilation.  Vet thought this may have been the cause. My other OEM who is 4 yrs. old did not seem to be affected.  Also my husband and I and 3 children were exposed.  A few of us suffered from Headaches and I actually had a little dizziness on the day he had his 1st seizure.  Coincidence??  I don’t know…We treated the 1st seizure as a possible chemical exposure. My dogs liver enzymes were slightly elevated at this time.  So….just as I was starting to become a little more relaxed about the whole thing…bang, 2nd Gran-mal seizure today. Followed by what I think was a small seizure 1 hr later, (just slight head twitching, no loss of conscience, but walking around kind of strange bumbing into things for about 3-4 minutes).  At this time I called vet and he said give 10mg. of Valium (they gave it to me in case….) and observe, if another occurs today I am to bring him in.  So much for the chemical exposure theory, we have not had any smell in our house in a month.  Vet says he doesn’t think epilepsy is common to OEM, but now we go back to the drawing board.  His neuro exam after 1st seizure was negative.  No signs of tumor etc…. but he has not had a CT Scan.       If anyone can give me any insight on this subject, I would greatly appreciate it.                                                            Thank You. Bigpaws737 (aka Karen)                                                                     c/o AOL     P.S.  I’m new to this group, so I hope this E-mails okay. I am having a similar experience myself with our 2 year old weimaraner, Mike.  A couple of weeks ago, he hada severe seizure for no apparent reason. Growing up, my family had a shetland sheepdog and a german shorthair who also had seizures.  No one ever knew why.  (I should mention that all 3 dogs came from reputable breeders and the dogs had impeccable predigrees.) The good news is that both of the dogs lived long, and healthy lives, aside from the occasional seizures. I don’t have any answers for you, but I am also interested in any information that someone could provide.  Good luck to you & your dog!

It’s me again.  I just wanted to add that when I contacted Mike’s breeder, she said there was no history of any of this among any of her other dogs.  A second weimaraner breeder that we talked to said she thought it was quite rare. We’re at a loss, too.

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I am looking for any information I can find regarding canine seizures. This is how I found your message…surfing the net looking for anything to do with this subject. I have a 2 year old English Mastiff who had his 1st Gran-Mal seizure 1 month ago and his 2nd this am.  I am very upset, I had just finished his Championship 4 days prior to his 1st episode.  His 1st seizure occured at the same time I was having my hardwood floors refinished in my house. There was a strong polyurethane smell in the house at the time.  I live in Central NY and it is cold, did not have windows open for alot of ventilation.  Vet thought this may have been the cause. My other OEM who is 4 yrs. old did not seem to be affected.  Also my husband and I and 3 children were exposed.  A few of us suffered from Headaches and I actually had a little dizziness on the day he had his 1st seizure.  Coincidence??  I don’t know…We treated the 1st seizure as a possible chemical exposure. My dogs liver enzymes were slightly elevated at this time.  So….just as I was starting to become a little more relaxed about the whole thing…bang, 2nd Gran-mal seizure today. Followed by what I think was a small seizure 1 hr later, (just slight head twitching, no loss of conscience, but walking around kind of strange bumbing into things for about 3-4 minutes).  At this time I called vet and he said give 10mg. of Valium (they gave it to me in case….) and observe, if another occurs today I am to bring him in.  So much for the chemical exposure theory, we have not had any smell in our house in a month.  Vet says he doesn’t think epilepsy is common to OEM, but now we go back to the drawing board.  His neuro exam after 1st seizure was negative.  No signs of tumor etc…. but he has not had a CT Scan.        If anyone can give me any insight on this subject, I would greatly appreciate it.                                                             Thank You. Bigpaws737 (aka Karen)                                                                      c/o AOL      P.S.  I’m new to this group, so I hope this E-mails okay.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am looking for any information I can find regarding canine seizures. This is how I found your message…surfing the net looking for anything to do with this subject. I have a 2 year old English Mastiff who had his 1st Gran-Mal seizure 1 month ago and his 2nd this am.  I am very upset, I had just finished his Championship 4 days prior to his 1st episode.  His 1st seizure occured at the same time I was having my hardwood floors refinished in my house. There was a strong polyurethane smell in the house at the time.  I live in Central NY and it is cold, did not have windows open for alot of ventilation.  Vet thought this may have been the cause. My other OEM who is 4 yrs. old did not seem to be affected.  Also my husband and I and 3 children were exposed.  A few of us suffered from Headaches and I actually had a little dizziness on the day he had his 1st seizure.  Coincidence??  I don’t know…We treated the 1st seizure as a possible chemical exposure. My dogs liver enzymes were slightly elevated at this time.  So….just as I was starting to become a little more relaxed about the whole thing…bang, 2nd Gran-mal seizure today. Followed by what I think was a small seizure 1 hr later, (just slight head twitching, no loss of conscience, but walking around kind of strange bumbing into things for about 3-4 minutes).  At this time I called vet and he said give 10mg. of Valium (they gave it to me in case….) and observe, if another occurs today I am to bring him in.  So much for the chemical exposure theory, we have not had any smell in our house in a month.  Vet says he doesn’t think epilepsy is common to OEM, but now we go back to the drawing board.  His neuro exam after 1st seizure was negative.  No signs of tumor etc…. but he has not had a CT Scan.       If anyone can give me any insight on this subject, I would greatly appreciate it.                                                            Thank You. Bigpaws737 (aka Karen)                                                                     c/o AOL     P.S.  I’m new to this group, so I hope this E-mails okay.

I am having a similar experience myself with our 2 year old weimaraner, Mike.  A couple of weeks ago, he hada severe seizure for no apparent reason. Growing up, my family had a shetland sheepdog and a german shorthair who also had seizures.  No one ever knew why.  (I should mention that all 3 dogs came from reputable breeders and the dogs had impeccable predigrees.) The good news is that both of the dogs lived long, and healthy lives, aside from the occasional seizures. I don’t have any answers for you, but I am also interested in any information that someone could provide.  Good luck to you & your dog!

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Confused.  I understand that a grand mal can kill the animal.  Isn’t it better to try to control the seizures by using Phenobarbital other than let the animal suffer or possibly die.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for any information I can find regarding canine seizures. This is how I found your message…surfing the net looking for anything to do with this subject. I have a 2 year old English Mastiff who had his 1st Gran-Mal seizure 1 month ago and his 2nd this am.  I am very upset, I had just finished his Championship 4 days prior to his 1st episode.  His 1st seizure occured at the same time I was having my hardwood floors refinished in my house. There was a strong polyurethane smell in the house at the time.  I live in Central NY and it is cold, did not have windows open for alot of ventilation.  Vet thought this may have been the cause. My other OEM who is 4 yrs. old did not seem to be affected.  Also my husband and I and 3 children were exposed.  A few of us suffered from Headaches and I actually had a little dizziness on the day he had his 1st seizure.  Coincidence??  I don’t know…We treated the 1st seizure as a possible chemical exposure. My dogs liver enzymes were slightly elevated at this time.  So….just as I was starting to become a little more relaxed about the whole thing…bang, 2nd Gran-mal seizure today. Followed by what I think was a small seizure 1 hr later, (just slight head twitching, no loss of conscience, but walking around kind of strange bumbing into things for about 3-4 minutes).  At this time I called vet and he said give 10mg. of Valium (they gave it to me in case….) and observe, if another occurs today I am to bring him in.  So much for the chemical exposure theory, we have not had any smell in our house in a month.  Vet says he doesn’t think epilepsy is common to OEM, but now we go back to the drawing board.  His neuro exam after 1st seizure was negative.  No signs of tumor etc…. but he has not had a CT Scan.       If anyone can give me any insight on this subject, I would greatly appreciate it.                                                            Thank You. Bigpaws737 (aka Karen)                                                                     c/o AOL     P.S.  I’m new to this group, so I hope this E-mails okay.

 My vet told me valium is not good for seizures as it can actually cause them. I’ve been giving my dog 100mg of phenobarbital twice a day to control his seizures as per my vet’s instructions.

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I am looking for any information I can find regarding canine seizures.

I have a 12 year old Cocker Spaniel that started having seizures when she was about 2.  We also considered some type of poisoning when the first seizure occurred (we sprayed her sleeping pillow for fleas that day).  However, the seizures continued.  The seizures happen about every 4-6 months.  Because of the wide gap between them, she is not medicated.  (An interesting question…since the seiuzures seem to occur about 6 mos. apart, could they be related to her fertility?  She was spayed before the first seizure.) The seizures are usually about 10 minutes long each and occur in groups lasting for hours, usually at night.  The first seizure in a group seems to be the worst, with grand mal musculoskeletal activity followed by respiratory arrest, jaw snapping, and mild shaking  She also foams at the mouth (a fairly unpleasant-smelling goo), and loses control of both her bowels and urine.  She also usually bleeds about the mouth, because the jaw snapping causes her to bite her tongue.  The later seizures are of the same form but milder.  Between the seizures she seems to be frightened by us, unaware of her name or surroundings, and unsteady on her feet.  For about a day afterwards, she sleeps constantly, and cannot remember very much.  (Her name comes back to her fairly rapidly, but she loses her training.) She stopped having these seizures about 2 years ago.  We can’t ifgure out why, but we are happy about it! I can’t give you any information on your dog’s breed and its relationship to epilepsy, but hopefully this symptom list may help you identify problems. Anyway, I hope this helps you a bit…

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I disagree that medication is a "last resort". Failing to medicate an epileptic animal can actually result in more numerous and more severe seizures, via "mirror focus" and "kindling" phenomena. Decisions to medicate or not are normally based on severity and cause of seizures, through discussion with your veterinarian and/or neurologist.

Our dog suffers from seizures and my vet asked me to keep a record of when, how severe, how long they last (and if more than 10, to try to get the dog to her—that is an emergency). She does not want him on medication unless the seizures occur monthly. So far, they are about every 3 months. Have other readers started with medications with seizures farther apart than monthly? Thanks. —                   <<<Bea

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My mother has a Pembroke Welsh Corgi who has been diagnosed pretty definitively as an epileptic.  Almost exactly a year ago this dog and 3 other Corgis experienced seizures which were attributed to an accidental poisoning by a gardening crew.  All the dogs recovered without incident except this one 3 yr. old, Parker.  He stayed on Phenobarbital up until 3 weeks ago when the vet said the 1/2 pill a day he was on wasn’t enough to prevent a seizure and so he could go off the meds.  A couple of days later he had a big seizure and spent the night at the emergency clinic.  He’s now on Penobarb 2ce a day and is doing well.  There’s nothing scarier than a dog having a fit, as you know.  But they can be treated successfully and enjoy a good quality of life. Good Luck and let us know how you make out!! Kristy & Spotster

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I disagree that medication is a "last resort". Failing to medicate an epileptic animal can actually result in more numerous and more severe seizures, via "mirror focus" and "kindling" phenomena. Decisions to medicate or not are normally based on severity and cause of seizures, through discussion with your veterinarian and/or neurologist.                                                                      ++ EPIL-K9 is a discussion list about seizuring/epileptic dogs.Many knowledgeable owners are there, and a few vets. You can sign up blank, and typing only this message: subscribe epil-k9 YourFirstName YourLastName replacing your real name of course <G The server will request a confirmation from you (keeps spammers out). Lots of great info there!

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My golden, Quinton, developed mild seizures about 3 1/2 years ago. They were about 2 weeks apart initially. I started giving him niacinamide (250 mg. twice a day). The seizures slowly became less frequent and are now about 14 months apart. They last less than 3 minutes, but the look of fear in Quinton’s face (due to the pupils being dilated) makes time slow down to a crawl. I’m happy that the vitamin supplement helps. Marianne —                         <http://www.globaldialog.com/~mtromp

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Can any of you – especially lurking vets and pharmacologists – enlighten me on an antibiotic called "tylan" ? I can’t find it on any drug reference. Maybe it is only used in veterinary practice. Is it a sulfanomide (sp??) drug? Also, "Methocol"? I found a reference to this in a holistic dog health book (authored by a DVM, not a "lay expert"). It was referred to as a liver support drug. I can’t find it in any human drug reference.

Tylan is used mainly in poultry farming.  Tylan is used as an antiboitic in chickens for colds and some virus I can’t come up with at the moment.  My dog was put on tylan for his sensitive stomach/ diarrhea problem.  It worked like a charm. Magenta

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says… Tylan is used mainly in poultry farming.  Tylan is used as an antiboitic in chickens for colds and some virus I can’t come up with at the moment.

Sorry, but antibiotics don’t have any effect on viruses.

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says… Tylan is used mainly in poultry farming.  Tylan is used as an antiboitic in chickens for colds and some virus I can’t come up with at the moment. Sorry, but antibiotics don’t have any effect on viruses.

Sorry for using the wrong word…will you ever forgive me? Magenta

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My Monique just suddenly veers to one side, stiffens and is down on her side and can’t move. She had her first seizure at the kennel. Then about 3 months later, she had one in front of me. She’s now on phenylbarbitol. Now just have to wait nd see. She started getting them at least once a month and that was way too much. Does anyone know the symptons of epileptics for dogs?

be-ahavah ve-shalom EthelJean of Creekbend MAC-NIET-SPIN-GAL/0387A.G./Khai Y’all

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Does anyone know the symptons of epileptics for dogs? 10ring master writes:

I have a four year old miniature poodle that has epileptic siezures about four or five times a year, it used to be more. I can usually tell when he is going to have a siezure by his actions. He first starts to look around very nervously and wants to get up on my lap or just nuzzle up real close. His eyes have that 1000 yard stare and then within a couple of minutes he has a siezure. My vet was giving him phenobarbital but we had to stop as someone told me it could lead to liver damage. I have noticed that whenever my mom is around he never has a siezure.

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Both of my dogs have a history of seizures.  KOKO, the Chocolate Lab, gets GRAN MAL siezures ( eyes rolled back completely, foaming at the mouth, severe shaking, loss of all muscle control- includin bowel and bladder – and basicically a state of non conciousness.) She is now 9 and hasn’t had one since June (the one before that was in April of 93. When she was younger she developed them about every four months.)   Kookie, a Golden Retriever, gets mild seizures about once a month. These involve a stiffening of her muscle, foaming at the mouth, and that 1000 yd stare. She is fully concious and aware.   I’ve read as much as I can on this, spoken to vets and other dog owners and I feel that these episodes are more traumatic to the owners than to the dogs. Medication should be the last resort as I feel a strong med like phenobarbitol tends to impact negatively on the dogs quality of life they are after all not human. These episodes are generally not life threatening.  In most cases, if you can handle it, the dog can. mdahern

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Can any of you – especially lurking vets and pharmacologists – enlighten me on an antibiotic called "tylan" ? I can’t find it on any drug reference. Maybe it is only used in veterinary practice. Is it a sulfanomide (sp??) drug? Also, "Methocol"? I found a reference to this in a holistic dog health book (authored by a DVM, not a "lay expert"). It was referred to as a liver support drug. I can’t find it in any human drug reference. TIA, Pat — Pat Wilson             "I do not represent my employer’s views on canine health."

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Dog-folks, I hope one or more of you will be willing to share your experience with liver disease. My 5-year old Dalmatian, Jake, was diagnosed (blood work, ultra-sound, and needle biopsy) last week with chronic active hepatitis. No evidence of the cause. The only symptoms so far are drinking and urinating more than expected. This dog is "medically complex" – as well as being a four-legged billboard against back yard breeders. He takes thyroxine for hypothyroidism (diagnosed in early July of this year) and was – for the last four years – on a diet of Hill’s UD because he has the Dal protein metabolic problem. (Yes, he formed the urate crystals and required surgery to correct urethral obstruction.) He has also been on an antibiotic (??? can’t find this in any drug book) called tylan. The tylan kept symptoms of inflammatory bowel syndrome – mainly chronic diarrhea with lots of mucous – in check. It was prescribed by a vet no longer with the practice. He told me it was used in poultry or cattle management (can’t recall which). He tried it when asulfidine was ineffectual. The biopsy/ultrasound showed nodules and fibrotic changes. I suspect that because of the long history of IBS symptoms – which was mistakenly attributed, I guess, to not tolerating dry UD kibble well – this liver problem has been going on for awhile and not due to a reaction to tylan or thyroxine. The only other medication he gets is Heartgard Plus. My vet is treating things very conservatively. He has recommended slowly switching from canned UD (which he went on at the time of the thyroid diagnosis – long and horrible story) to dry DD – an egg and rice based diet. He also has Jake on penicillin. Jake has never displayed the apparently classic symptom of liver disease – reluctance to eat. On the contrary, except for the time his thyroid quit functioning, he has always eaten as if every meal would be his last. Only in the past two days does he seem "tired" to me – and it’s so slight that it may be a case of over-anxious observation on the part of his owner. My vet has consulted by phone with a couple of vet internists and a nutritionist. In addition, he has talked to the pathologist who issued the biopsy report. My concern is not that Jake is getting inadequate care, but rather that we are dealing with a disease with no apparent cause. If the hepatitis is not caused by a bacterial infection, the antibiotic is more preventative than palliative (which my vet admitted). So basically I’m relying on an easier-to-digest food to reduce the load on the liver so that it can self-restore. I realize that the liver has more capacity to repair itself than other organs, but this is still scary to me. While my vet and the handouts he gave me mentioned that exposure to toxic substances is the chief cause of hepatitis among dogs, I’ve wracked my brain trying to figure "what toxic substance?". I’ve only been able to come up with two possibilities – 1.snacking from the kitty box (which we finally figured a way to stop) 2. pesticides. We do have Orkin treat our house  on a monthly basis. The guy treats fire ant mounds periodically, though Jake knows not to go near them. I have also treated the yard with diazinon and dursban for chinch bugs this summer for the first time. I think his history and the pathology report point to a disease that was taking its toll long before this summer. Of course, the one holistic vet book I looked at said that the perfumes in kitty litter were toxic enough to cause disease in dogs. I’ve cancelled the Orkin guy and I’ll let the yard die before I ever use those two pesticides again. I’ve never used chlordane, but I don’t know for sure about Orkin. If the DD diet causes us fewer problems than the UD diet, then I’ll ask the vet about taking him off tylan. Has anyone else had a dog successfully treated for hepatitis of an unknown cause? TIA, Pat — Pat Wilson             "I do not represent my employer’s views on canine health."

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Does anyone know the symptons of epileptics for dogs?

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Does anyone know the symptons of epileptics for dogs?They arch their backs, with eyes pointing to the sky, get very hot (froth

at the mouth) and seem very disorientated. One of my dogs had three of these fits which were described as epileptic fits which they often have between the age of 1 and 3 years and can grow out of. Our dog hasn’t had one since he’s now 7. I hope this is the case for your dogs. Clare

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Question:

: Help! : My 1 year old purebred collie (lassie type) has scratched and bitten all : the hair and made it raw, right above her tail for about a 6 square inch : area. : I have taken her to 3 vets. : Vet #1 said it was fleas and put her on program. and a cortisone shot. : Vet #2 said it was mange and wormed her and gave me a mange dip which i used. : Vet #3 said it was thyroid plus the flea problem and put her on cortisone : pills and thyroid pills and ADVANTAGE flea drop (once a month). : Has anyone seen this problem and do you think one of the 3 vets is correct : and which vet, or do you have any other suggestions?   She is in really : bad shape.  We have a 2 year old lab/border collie mix that has none of this. The reaction to fleas varies from dog to dog. Did vet #2 do a skin scraping to check for mange? Did vet #3 do any blood tests? Skin scrapings for mange can show false negatives, and flea allergy alone can cause really nasty problems. But I would avoid vet #3 if thyroid meds were prescribed without even a blood test for thyroid values. And your post didn’t make it clear whether you did this but *don’t* give two flea tratements at the same time.

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It could be any of the above as well as a hot spot, or a bacterial infection. If none of those treatments is helping, I’d recommend taking her back to your vet and having a skin scraping done to find out exactly what it is.

And a blood test, too, if vet #3 didn’t already do one. I’ve seen very bad hot spots in Collies, twice before;  last time we had one was years ago and they still didn’t know what caused them. Topical application of Furox, a wound antibiotic made for horses, was recommended and helped considerably.  Talk to a vet before putting anything on a hot spot or other raw, sore spot — you can bet the dog will lick and/or chew at the spot so nothing should go ON the dog that’s not safe to go IN the dog. Also, you might look into food or other allergies.  Dogs tend to have skin reactions to allergies, even to food or inhalant allergies, just as humans are more likley to have respiratory reactions to allergies (even food and contact allergies).  What do your dogs eat?  You might want to try 2 months of a "bland diet", which should contain nothing that’s part of their regular diet now.  If you have been feeding poultry/beef/soy/corn based foods you may be able to use a lamb and rice diet for this.  (Check all labels though, many non "lamb and rice" foods do now contain lamb, and some "lamb and rice" foods could contain poultry.  It’s got to be foods that he hasn’t ever been exposed to before.)  More obscure diets are available for dogs who’ve eaten lamb and rice and still have allergies;  probably a vet would help you find them, or a good dog supply or feed store.  There are some very obscure diets out like venision and barley, rabbit and potato… Also, even if it’s not a flea allergy (and it could be, flea allergies are awful), the fleas are not helping the area heal.  There are preparations you can use on your yard for fleas.  Now that Torus is off the market I’m not sure there’s a reliable insect growth regulator for outside use, but if you use an exterminator you could ask about that.  There are relatively safe insecticides that can be used outdoors.  It’s a pain but you’ll be glad you did.  Invest in one of those pressure sprayers, the self-contained cannisters.  I use one to treat my 2 acres and it makes the job tolerable. —                                       *            University of Kansas   * Standard Disclaimers Apply *      *        Lawrence, KS  66045-2127 —-         Open mouth. Insert foot. Echo internationally.        —-

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| |Help! |My 1 year old purebred collie (lassie type) has scratched and bitten all |the hair and made it raw, right above her tail for about a 6 square inch |area. |I have taken her to 3 vets. |Vet #1 said it was fleas and put her on program. and a cortisone shot. |Vet #2 said it was mange and wormed her and gave me a mange dip which i used. |Vet #3 said it was thyroid plus the flea problem and put her on cortisone |pills and thyroid pills and ADVANTAGE flea drop (once a month). | |Has anyone seen this problem and do you think one of the 3 vets is correct |and which vet, or do you have any other suggestions?   She is in really |bad shape.  We have a 2 year old lab/border collie mix that has none of this. | |They live outside and it would be impossible to totally get rid of fleas |in the yard (a 1.6 acre yard). My husky/shepherd mix had the same bald/raw patch and it was flea allergy. Since the dog lives outside it is vital that you spray your yard.  It will be a pain to spray a yard your size but it is possible.  Hire an exterminator if you don’t want to do it yourself.  In the long run it will be cheaper for you and healthier for your dog.  Prolonged use of steriods can have serious consequences according to my vet.  We did our yard and house and now have a perfectly hairy dog.  Good luck. Lori

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Help! My 1 year old purebred collie (lassie type) has scratched and bitten all the hair and made it raw, right above her tail for about a 6 square inch area. I have taken her to 3 vets. Vet #1 said it was fleas and put her on program. and a cortisone shot. Vet #2 said it was mange and wormed her and gave me a mange dip which i used. Vet #3 said it was thyroid plus the flea problem and put her on cortisone pills and thyroid pills and ADVANTAGE flea drop (once a month). Has anyone seen this problem and do you think one of the 3 vets is correct and which vet, or do you have any other suggestions?   She is in really bad shape.  We have a 2 year old lab/border collie mix that has none of this.

–All 3 vets make valid points.  Did the 3rd vet run a blood test to determine the thyroid problem or was it diagnosed on symptoms alone.  If no test was run I would suggest that you have a thyroid run on your pet.  However, thyroid problems don’t usually show up in such a localized way.   I would suggest that you do what you can about the fleas, use a cortisone cream directly on the raw area to relieve itching and help it heal.  Also, have your dogs anal glands checked – sometimes full or impacted glands will lead to chewing above the tail.   Unfortunately, what you may be dealing with is a nervous condition.  Some people twist their hair and some dogs mutilate themselves.  Using an E-collar when you are not around will keep her from chewing and when you are there discourage it.  Good luck.  My in-laws have a dog who struggles with a similar problem so I know how frustrating it can be.   Consulting a dermatologist or allergy specialist might be a good next step. Stephanie

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Kill the flea ridden mutt and put everyone out of your misery.

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Help! My 1 year old purebred collie (lassie type) has scratched and bitten all the hair and made it raw, right above her tail for about a 6 square inch area.

snip! Has anyone seen this problem and do you think one of the 3 vets is correct and which vet, or do you have any other suggestions?   She is in really bad shape.  We have a 2 year old lab/border collie mix that has none of this.

I would say that none of the vets are right.  Take her back to the vet you trust most (or another vet!) and suggest an anal gland problem.  Her anal glands may not be expressing correctly when she does #2, and she’s trying to "itch" them. Does she scoot around on her butt?  That’s almost a sure sign that’s what it is! The vet will probably express her glands, and all will be ok for about a week. Then, it’s back to itching and biting again.  I’m sure that the vet can explain it better than I can… I just happen to have a puppy with anal gland problems. Good luck! -Sharon —–|-(-)—-   http://www.mtco.com/~barton/sharon/        /         Zion Lutheran Church, Peoria

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help! My 1 year old purebred collie (lassie type) has scratched and bitten all the hair and made it raw, right above her tail for about a 6 square inch area. I have taken her to 3 vets. Vet #1 said it was fleas and put her on program. and a cortisone shot. Vet #2 said it was mange and wormed her and gave me a mange dip which i used. Vet #3 said it was thyroid plus the flea problem and put her on cortisone pills and thyroid pills and ADVANTAGE flea drop (once a month). Has anyone seen this problem and do you think one of the 3 vets is correct and which vet, or do you have any other suggestions?   She is in really bad shape.  We have a 2 year old lab/border collie mix that has none of this. They live outside and it would be impossible to totally get rid of fleas in the yard (a 1.6 acre yard). Thanks….

It could be any of the above as well as a hot spot, or a bacterial infection. If none of those treatments is helping, I’d recommend taking her back to your vet and having a skin scraping done to find out exactly what it is. Ashley —             M. Ashley McLure    http://jasmine.oit.gatech.edu/~ashley All opinions unless otherwise stated, are my own.

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: Help! : My 1 year old purebred collie (lassie type) has scratched and bitten all : the hair and made it raw, right above her tail for about a 6 square inch : area. : I have taken her to 3 vets. : Vet #1 said it was fleas and put her on program. and a cortisone shot. Did that help at all for any length of time? : Vet #2 said it was mange and wormed her and gave me a mange dip which i used. Did this vet take a skin scraping to examine? Did the treatment help? : Vet #3 said it was thyroid plus the flea problem and put her on cortisone : pills and thyroid pills and ADVANTAGE flea drop (once a month). Did this vet take a blood sample to check the thyroid diagnosis? Have the thyroid pills and cortisone helped? : Has anyone seen this problem and do you think one of the 3 vets is correct : and which vet, or do you have any other suggestions?   She is in really : bad shape.  We have a 2 year old lab/border collie mix that has none of this. The first thing I think of when I have a problem like this in my dogs is FLEAS. But if Vet #2 found mange mites, and/or Vet #3 found low thyroid in the blood sample, then mange and/or thyroid would be at least part of the problem (and probably a major part). : They live outside and it would be impossible to totally get rid of fleas : in the yard (a 1.6 acre yard). And if fleas is the problem, then your dog’s skin will never clear up until you get rid of the fleas. It’s not impossible. No one is going to be able to second-guess your vet(s). Find one you like, and stick with him/her. Let them run the lab work (skin scrapings /bloodwork), and find out what the real problem is. April with Levi and Caper, the Border Collie Hurricanes

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Help! My 1 year old purebred collie (lassie type) has scratched and bitten all the hair and made it raw, right above her tail for about a 6 square inch area. I have taken her to 3 vets. Vet #1 said it was fleas and put her on program. and a cortisone shot. Vet #2 said it was mange and wormed her and gave me a mange dip which i used. Vet #3 said it was thyroid plus the flea problem and put her on cortisone pills and thyroid pills and ADVANTAGE flea drop (once a month). Has anyone seen this problem and do you think one of the 3 vets is correct and which vet, or do you have any other suggestions?   She is in really bad shape.  We have a 2 year old lab/border collie mix that has none of this. They live outside and it would be impossible to totally get rid of fleas in the yard (a 1.6 acre yard). Thanks….

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