Posts belonging to Category 'Thyroid Solution'

Radiation

Question:

Hi Nana, I loved radiation, compared to chemo. It was only for 16 days and I didn’t feel as tired as I did during chemo, even though I had to drive three hours a day to get there and back. I wasn’t allowed to use any cream or anything else except a little very diluted soap and water, on the site, but was given some kind of diaper rash ointment on the last day. It was really thick and hard to spread so I used aloe vera instead. After nine months the sunburn appearance has gone. Marilyn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I haven’t posted in a while. I guess I just did not feel like talking much while I was receiving chemotherapy. But that is behind me now and it is on to radiation. I started today and it was uneventful. I am just wondering if anyone has any suggestions regarding coping with radiation. When should I expect side effects, if any? What are the most common side effects? Any suggestions on dealing with them? Thank you in advance for any advice. Nana

Response:

My wife developed a cough during radiotherpy. Her doctor recommended taking extra vitamin B and this resolved the problem.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When should I expect side effects, if any? What are the most common side effects? Any suggestions on dealing with them? Mine were fatigue(not terrible), and extreme nausea when the field included part of my stomach. Hair does come out if your skull is getting nuked and takes longer to grow back than it does from chemo. The fatigue and hair loss sttarted in the second week of my treatments, but the nausea started just an hour after treatment. — Aloha, Catharine titubant sed non decidunt wiblia

Response:

Hi Nana, I’m from the UK, don’t know where you’re from but i was told to use a hypo-allergenic mosturiser, they recommended E45. I’m sure if where you are they don’t have this particular cream, there will plenty of different kinds which would be very similar to this. Or i have seen many others mention a Aloe Vera type lotion. As others have mentioned, you will more than likely feel very tired, after the first week or so of radiation. But it is "a walk in the park", compared to chemo. You’ll sail through it! So just look forward to coming to the end of your treatment! Good Luck! Shaz x

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They have not told me about any cream. could you elaborate on that? Thanks Hi Nana, I had 3 wks of radiation, which i finished about 2mnths ago. I only had slight redness from it, as i religiously applied the E45 cream i was told to. If you do everything what they tell you to do, you should be fine. Good Luck, Shaz x Hello everyone, I haven’t posted in a while. I guess I just did not feel like talking much while I was receiving chemotherapy. But that is behind me now and it is on to radiation. I started today and it was uneventful. I am just wondering if anyone has any suggestions regarding coping with radiation. When should I expect side effects, if any? What are the most common side effects? Any suggestions on dealing with them? Thank you in advance for any advice. Nana

Response:

Hi, Nana: I didn’t have much trouble with radiation. I got a little redness — like a mild sunburn. But the radiology oncologist gave me some lotion to use. It was called Amoena response lotion, but I’m sure there are others. The main thing is it’s an alpha hydroxy moisturizer to keep the skin pliable. The only other side effects I had was an encapsulation of my breast implant (I had that fixed later) and a tendency to be really tired — especially after I came home from teaching a one-hour water aerobics class (I did the workout on the deck while my students did it in the water). A nap for an hour or so took care of that. From what I’ve heard and seen, you’ve already gone through the roughest stuff: the chemo. Radiation therapy is *nothing* compared to that! Good luck! Mary K

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I haven’t posted in a while. I guess I just did not feel like talking much while I was receiving chemotherapy. But that is behind me now and it is on to radiation. I started today and it was uneventful. I am just wondering if anyone has any suggestions regarding coping with radiation. When should I expect side effects, if any? What are the most common side effects? Any suggestions on dealing with them? Thank you in advance for any advice. Nana

Response:

When should I expect side effects, if any? What are the most common side effects? Any suggestions on dealing with them?

Mine were fatigue(not terrible), and extreme nausea when the field included part of my stomach. Hair does come out if your skull is getting nuked and takes longer to grow back than it does from chemo. The fatigue and hair loss sttarted in the second week of my treatments, but the nausea started just an hour after treatment. — Aloha, Catharine titubant sed non decidunt wiblia

Response:

Hello everyone, I haven’t posted in a while. I guess I just did not feel like talking much while I was receiving chemotherapy. But that is behind me now and it is on to radiation. I started today and it was uneventful. I am just wondering if anyone has any suggestions regarding coping with radiation. When should I expect side effects, if any? What are the most common side effects? Any suggestions on dealing with them? Thank you in advance for any advice. Nana

Response:

Hi Nana, I had 3 wks of radiation, which i finished about 2mnths ago. I only had slight redness from it, as i religiously applied the E45 cream i was told to. If you do everything what they tell you to do, you should be fine. Good Luck, Shaz x

Response:

They have not told me about any cream. could you elaborate on that? Thanks

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Nana, I had 3 wks of radiation, which i finished about 2mnths ago. I only had slight redness from it, as i religiously applied the E45 cream i was told to. If you do everything what they tell you to do, you should be fine. Good Luck, Shaz x Hello everyone, I haven’t posted in a while. I guess I just did not feel like talking much while I was receiving chemotherapy. But that is behind me now and it is on to radiation. I started today and it was uneventful. I am just wondering if anyone has any suggestions regarding coping with radiation. When should I expect side effects, if any? What are the most common side effects? Any suggestions on dealing with them? Thank you in advance for any advice. Nana

Response:

What do people think about swimming while doing radiation in a chlorinated pool? I would be wearing a tshirt over my swim suit and no sunscreen. Is it a problem to have an occasional swim?

Response:

chlorinated pool? Check with your dr. I think I was told no swimming during radiation but can’t recall for sure.

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I was told to use 100% aloe vera gel without any additives or artificial colors on it every few hours, right after treatment and up to about 4 hours before the next treatment. I was told not to use anything for 4 hours before each treatment. The pharmacy of the facility where I had my treatment sold it, but I also found it at Walmart and Longs Drugs stores as well.

Response:

A friend is just finishing rads in both breasts and was told to spray with salt water during treatment. The skin has stood up wonderfully well and with no burning (she is very fair). Check with the dr but maybe if it is a salt water chlorinated pool it may be ok.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do people think about swimming while doing radiation in a chlorinated pool? I would be wearing a tshirt over my swim suit and no sunscreen. Is it a problem to have an occasional swim?

Response:

I wasn’t allowed to use anything during treatment but was given some Zinc and Castor Oil diaper rash cream after the final treatment. It’s very thick and hard to spread so I didn’t use it because I thought it would pull the top lawyer of skin off. I’m very pale but only got a bit of redness in the final couple of treatments. Marilyn

Response:

Being new to the group, I hope someone can shed some light on radiation therapy – procedure, side effects, etc. Thanks, Karol — Vist my home page at: http://oe.pages.com/HOBBY/Gardening/karolmac

Response:

Karol, I just finished radiation and it is not bad at all. First they will do what they call a simulation where they determine all the right angles etc. to aim the radiation at. You may be having 2 or 4 fields radiated. You may be given the option of having tattoos to mark the field. I would recommend this because for me the pen marks were hard to keep on. The tattoos are small dots at about 5 locations around the area being radiated. When this is complete, they will set up your appoinments for treatment. Each treatment only takes a few minutes. Perhaps 15 minutes in total on the table. You lay on the table, they maneuver you into the correct position, and then leave the room to zap you. Nothing touches you and you feel nothing. The first treatment may include some additional pictures in order to ensure that they are treating the correct area. Over the course of 4 or 5 weeks my skin did get pink and a bit itchy. I felt tired towards the end. I also had something called "bolus" (sp) which was a plastic sheet which allowed the radiation to come closer to the skin surface. This causes the skin reaction to be a little worse. Also, a note, the reactions peak at 7 – 10 days after the radiation treatments are complete. It really is a breeze compared to chemotherapy. Good luck. All the best. Carol

Response:

<< Being new to the group, I hope someone can shed some light on radiation therapy – procedure, side effects, etc. Thanks, Karol I finished 6 1/2 weeks of radiation at the end of February. The radiation was not painful but I did have some minor problems like skin burn and tenderness in the area and I got a yeast infection under my breast which was really icky and took a few weeks to clear up. I felt tired after about 4 weeks and it really became a drag to go every day. It was all I thought about 24 hours a day. HOWEVER, it ends and you heal and you understand what an incredibly strong and brave person you were and are. I also found it helpful to focus my thoughts during the treatment on some incredibly peaceful place I had been or some indecent thing I was going to do with my husband when it was over.

Response:

Hi – I don’t have any real horror stories either – I got to shower every day…… I had to drive a fair distance every afternoon for my treatments and by the end of the week I was fairly tired but that was probably from working, driving, etc. etc. The radiated area was somewhat sore after the second week but the weekends off helped, then it would get sore again (kind of a throbbing ache) by the end of the week again. I did get a sunburn but not until the last week (I was lucky – some folks get a "sunburn" rather quickly.). Radiation isn’t too bad overall. Good luck and take care sandyb

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone tell me what is the worst part of the radiation treatments. Any bad stories.?

Response:

Can someone tell me what is the worst part of the radiation treatments. Any bad stories.?

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Radiotherapy is ok….I have no horror stories to tell you! The annoying things about it are: No washing of the irradiated area for the 6 weeks and for several after treatment is finished. That rules out showers..but your first bath/shower after that long wait is a WONDERFUL experience! It does make you feel quite tired..I tried to have a rest every afternoon. If you live a fair distance from the hospital the daily travelling can be a pain. The irradiated area got quite ’sunburned’ and a bit sore, I also got some swelling of the treated breast and even now..almost 2 years on..that breast is still larger and a bit tender. All in all a small price to pay! Good luck Rachel

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone tell me what is the worst part of the radiation treatments. Any bad stories.?

Response:

That’s really interesting about you not being able to take showers. …I showered every day during my radiation. However, I made sure I knew where the marks were on my breast and redrew them every day so that they wouldn’t need to be remeasured and marked. …I, too, have no horror sstories to tell. I just got tired after awhile. So that I wouldn’t have to take off of work, I got up at 5, was to work by 6, worked striaght through til 2 and then drove 100 miles round trip for the radiation. The techs were wonderful. The room quietly dark, and the radio station was relaxing. …Every day the same thing happened. I would be lightly dozing, (you’re only in for about 5 minutes), and then the light would come back on and I’d get a light tap on my shoulder, "ok, you’re done, see you tomorrow). That’s it. Hope it goes as wel for you!! l – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Radiotherapy is ok….I have no horror stories to tell you! The annoying things about it are: No washing of the irradiated area for the 6 weeks and for several after treatment is finished. That rules out showers..but your first bath/shower after that long wait is a WONDERFUL experience! It does make you feel quite tired..I tried to have a rest every afternoon. If you live a fair distance from the hospital the daily travelling can be a pain. The irradiated area got quite ’sunburned’ and a bit sore, I also got some swelling of the treated breast and even now..almost 2 years on..that breast is still larger and a bit tender. All in all a small price to pay! Good luck Rachel Can someone tell me what is the worst part of the radiation treatments. Any bad stories.?

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God..I wish I’d had my radiation somewhere else!! I was living in Germany ay the time and showers were BANNED. I was given some Kammillenpuder ( Camomile powder ) for the affected area which was amazingly effective and had very careful baths ! I didn’t have any tattoos..just large amounts of purple and blue marker pen which my 3 year old daughter kept trying to add to!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone tell me what is the worst part of the radiation treatments. Any bad stories.?

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I also find this strange they are telling you not to shower/bath for the 6 weeks of radiation treatments, and several weeks afterwards? Why the waiting after they are all done with treatments? Other then the skin irriatation (?) most experience to some degree. I had *tatoos* done the first time I went for the treatments. Just small (very!..can’t hardly find them now) dots of ink dropped on my skin and then poked with a needle. This way there was no need for "re-measuring". These dots showed up when the machine was turned on and directed at me (which in sense kept the area marked out). The marker *lines* had to be redrawn occassionally (I am not too crazy about the color royal blue anymore lol)…..but I found out that the marker they used did not come off that easy. There was always enough left for techs to see them. I think I would have gone mad not being able to shower for 6 weeks. I was having a problem with a few days right after my surgery. Course I am a clean freak..when it comes to me…the house..now is a different story… Take care and I hope you continue to do well…HuGs!! Annie "….I will age ungracefully until I become an old woman in a small

Response:

Hi TooTall – this is TooShort here – or, at any rate, unable to reach my top kitchen cupboards. Still, that’s what husbands are for. <g Can someone tell me what is the worst part of the radiation treatments. Any bad stories?

The measuring-up takes ages, so in many cases, to avoid having to do it again, they’ll put 4 tiny tattoo dots (smaller than a pinhead, more like a pinprick – literally) that they can line up on for each treatment. The marks aren’t really visible unless someone is looking for them, or you point them out (my m-i-l nearly had a conniption when I told her I’d got 4 tattoos, then was quite disappointed when I showed her one!), and cover up easily with cosmetics. They also allow you to keep showering, which is just as well, ‘cos you can’t use deodorant or anti-perspirant on that side during rads – something about aluminium content. Some people use lots of talc, applied after treatments. Also aloe vera to help the skin heal. Most people have very little trouble – just a little reddening of the skin, like sunburn. Some find rads tiring, although that might be a result of having to go in for treatment every week day, rather than the radiation itself. However, some people do react, usually those who are undergoing chemotherapy with methatrexate (one of the CMF cocktail) or who have recently had adriamycin (doxorubicin). I had both and, yes, mine was a horroe story. No real reaction during the rads (25 sessions), just an increasing reddening and drying of the skin. On the day of the last rad treatment I celebrated escaping so lightly – no-one told me that the effects continue developing for ten days or so after the last treatment. I ended up in Plastic Surgery Outpatients with second degree burns to my armpit (thankfully no nerves there) and the hollow of my neck. The healing from that was the most miserable month of my cancer treatment so far. Needless to say, that reaction was the worst my oncologist had seen (things like that happen to me, my TRAM disaster’s the same). It is very, very unlikely to happen to you. However, what scared me most at the time was that I hadn’t expected it, had no idea what was happening, or how bad it would get. Now you know the worst possibility and, more important, that it will not get worse after the tenth day after your last treatment. Even the worst case is survivable, and the greatest likelihood is that you will have no more trouble that you would get after a few minutes too long in the sun. Wishing you all the best, Nicki

Response:

This is pretty much my experience. The hassle of driving to and from every day was the worst of it! My advice, if they don’t do this already: If you are having radiation ANYWHERE near any skin folds, like your groin, or (if you are shaped like me) your belly, under your other breast, etc., ask them to put a little wad of something in that fold. As I understand it, the radiation bounces back and forth between the walls of the fold and kind of amplifies itself. The little wad (in my case, it was Styrofoam) keeps it from doing that and you don’t get the burning.

They stuck an empty syringe under my breast to help prevent some of the burning. Peg who isn’t entering any biniki contests, regardless of radiation and/or chemo and/or surgery

Response:

They stuck an empty syringe under my breast to help prevent some of the burning.

Oh yeah, and didn’t THAT make you feel feminine and desirable?!? At least my wad of Styrofoam was a pretty shade of robin’s-egg blue. — Aloha, Catharine Character is what you do when no one’s watching.

Response:

Varian 2100 CD Dual Photon/Electron Linear Accelerator External radiation treatments will be delivered using the latest generation of linear accelerators, the Varian 2100 CD.

Janice, I had my treatments in a normal sized medical center and they have this machine. They take both x-rays and a ct scan so they can get the rays just right so you won’t have lung or heart damage. I got very brown, but no burns. Use the aloe vera cream they give you and you will be just fine. Linda

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A side effects or complications. Well, I guess there’s a chance that the radiation helped bring on a low thyroid condition, but I have a family history of thyroid problems, so that latter’s more likely the reason.

I developed a thyroid problem after radiation. The family doctor thinks it came from the radiation since my thyroid number was normal two weeks before radiation. The onc doctors say there is no way it could possibly come from radiation. I, personally, have decided I don’t care. As long as they get it/keep it under control! Peg

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I don’t know alot about the different machines being used. I had a choice of two facilities–one was located about 15 miles away and another was 45 minutes away. My surgeon said she would to the latter because she felt they had the best or latest machines and knew that the technicians were very well-trained. I was also a little uneasy about the idea of radiation after reading about possible side effects and memories of what happened to my mom a few years after she had finished Cobalt treatments. However, the radiation oncologist alleviated any fears I had. Radiation was a breeze. I only had 25 treatments because I had a mastectomy (bilateral) with clean margins. Towards the end I was a little burnt. However, since I was still numb in the area, it hardly bothered me. Two days after I finished my husband and I left for a week-long cruise, and I didn’t have any problems. The radiation did cause a change to show up in a small area of my lungs according to the last CAT scan. That was expected, and it really doesn’t bother me. For many years I had allergies and occasional asthma. I always tested at 50% lung capacity which I was evaluated for each time I saw my allergist. However, after beginning and maintaining an exercise program after my b.c. diagnosis last year, I now test at 99 or 100% lung capacity which I don’t think I had since I’d been a child.

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Oops…here’s something else that I found. :) http://www.denveroncology.com/special.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess everybody has to have something to worry about. I start radiation in a couple of weeks, and I’m scared. I frankly don’t know which one I was more scared of. Radiation or chemo. I got through the chemo…but not without my share of complications that I’m still not fully over. And just to help things along in the worry department, I have a friend of a friend who got leukemia after her radiation. I mean, is all this actually worth it? When I was investigating the chemo, what I read indicated that the old er you get, the less the percentage rate increases to insure that you don’t get it back. In my case, it was somewhere between 3 to 4%. Considering what happened to me during chemo, I’m not sure it was worth it. Now with radiation, I’m wondering the same thing. Except I don’t have the percentages in radiation. Also I understand that there are machines that are much more sophisticated at administering the exact dose where you need it to alleviate side effects. However, every oncologist I talked to says there is no new machine. I don’t know if that’s because they don’t know about it or there really isn’t one. But I feel certain I picked up that little tidbit somewhere. Anyone has thoughts or should I just go find my bottle of Xanax and shut up about it? janice

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I just talked with my radiation onc about this specific question this week. He said that since my radiation fields included the supraclavicular nodes, there was some chance of radiation reaching & affecting one of the lobes (I think he called it) of the thyroid gland, but unlikely the whole gland. Implication was that it *might* have contributed to my developing the hypothyroidism, but low probability. I’ve been reading Ridha Arem’s book The Thyroid Solution (good book, BTW). He said that radiation to the base of the throat where the thyroid gland is can trigger hypothyroidism. From my onc’s comment, I’d gather that whether BC radiation could help trigger it depends on the location of one’s particular radiation treatment fields. FWIW, The book also says that there seems to be a higher incidence of hypothyroidism in women who have had BC, but the exact mechanisms aren’t known. There’s also higher incidence in post-menopausal women. I have to admit, I asked the onc about the situation purely out of curiosity: My father’s hypothyroid, and family history is a risk factor, so I wasn’t particularly surprised to become hypothyroid. Ann

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Janice, hi. I had rads 9 years ago. When you have a lumpectomy it is mandatory to have rads in the affected breast to prevent reoccurence. the only way to usually avoid them is to have a mastectomy and this does not follow in all cases. Apart from tiredness rads was a breeze. Of course there are risks but they are worth it. Whats to say your friend would have got leukaemia anyhow. They will never really know. Good luck and keep in touch

Response:

At the time, it was much easier than chemo. I didn’t even feel very fatigued. I did get a pretty bad radiation burn in my groin folds, as the radiation beam hit there, but it cleared up rapidly after radiation stopped. I developed a brick-sized- and -shaped blister on the back of my thigh about a month after radiation stopped. The oncologists went ballistic and put me on all sorts of antibiotics. I went back to radiation. The nurse said it looked like an artifact from the radiation, the doctor said no way, he had never seen anything like it. It finally settled down into a dark scar the size and shape of a brick (or a radiation beam.) After my hip surgery, I developed a seroma on the front of my thigh, "across the street" from the blister on the back of my thigh. In the middle of the seroma, making it look like a doughnut, is a brick-sized and -shaped hard area that is sunk into my leg. It’s like when you take a hot iron and plant it in the middle of something puffy. They’ve drained the seroma a couple of times and the hard area stays hard and then the seroma puffs up around it again; they’ve taken biopsies of the hard area and they show nothing. When I went back in for my second whack at radiation I showed it to the doctor (the same doctor who said it couldn’t possibly be an artifact of radiation) and, now that he knows I am not a litigious sort, I guess, he said, "Oh, yeah, that’s ours." None of it really bothers me; I just won’t be entering any bikini contests ever again. And I now know that I will never, ever, under any circumstances, ever ever again take Augmentin. (sp? — a new antibiotic that has horrible side effects in me.) The second time through I received a much lower dose and they were careful to avoid my groin area, my seroma, AND the hard area, and I have had nothing bad except fatigue yet. My advice, if they don’t do this already: If you are having radiation ANYWHERE near any skin folds, like your groin, or (if you are shaped like me) your belly, under your other breast, etc., ask them to put a little wad of something in that fold. As I understand it, the radiation bounces back and forth between the walls of the fold and kind of amplifies itself. The little wad (in my case, it was Styrofoam) keeps it from doing that and you don’t get the burning. — Aloha, Catharine Character is what you do when no one’s watching.

Response:

There is also intensity modulated radiation therapy (also known as the Peacock system) but it is (as far as I know) only used for brain, prostate, lung, liver etc. They are working at this time to be able to use it accurately with breast cancer and more. Here is a site about it – there are lots out there! :) Anyway, I was just thinking that maybe that’s what you had heard about. Best wishes to you, Tylia http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/2286a.htm

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This is the latest in the actual radiation machine. Varian 2100 CD Dual Photon/Electron Linear Accelerator External radiation treatments will be delivered using the latest generation of linear accelerators, the Varian 2100 CD.

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I guess everybody has to have something to worry about. I start radiation in a couple of weeks, and I’m scared.

I’m sure you already hate hearing everybody say "everyone is different", so I won’t! But for me, radiation was *much* easier than chemo. The burns never got worse than a severe sunburn, and that was only for a few days (even though I have fair skin & sunburn easily). Plus I felt fatigued (but was pretty used to that from chemo). That was about it. It’s been 8 months now, and I so far don’t have any of the more rare side effects or complications. Well, I guess there’s a chance that the radiation helped bring on a low thyroid condition, but I have a family history of thyroid problems, so that latter’s more likely the reason. I hope it turns out to be easy for you! Ann

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Maybe this is what is "new." ?? This article was from 97. High tech cancer center opens doors in South Austin Center will attract world-caliber medical expertise Shelby L. Murphy Special To The Austin Business Journal Using the high tech wizardry of computerized 3-D modeling, the South Austin Cancer Center recently unveiled a more comfortable and convenient way for cancer patients to receive treatment. Doctors at the cancer center, which opened its doors earlier this month, say this new machinery, some of which is available only at a few other clinics in the world, not only will make cancer treatment easier for local patients, it also will attract world-caliber medical expertise from physicians who travel to train here. Before virtual CT simulation, doctors used flat X-ray scans to create treatment plans, says Timothy Dzuik, M.D., radiation oncologist at the South Austin Cancer Center. While a patient was being simulated and marked up for treatment, he or she would have to remain immobile for stretches anywhere from 15 minutes to two hours, says Dzuik. With virtual CT simulation, the patient is scanned in 12 minutes, and the patient’s body is reconstructed three-dimensionally on the computer. The technology increases the accuracy of the radiation and increases patient comfort, Dzuik says. Sign up to receive free daily business updates by email every weekday afternoon. Use Search Watch to watch for related topics, companies Receive free Industry News via email. Choose from 46 different industries. "This enables us to give a higher dose of radiation with a minimal amount of normal tissue in the radiation field," says Dzuik. Owned by Dallas-based Physician Reliance Network Inc. and staffed by Texas Oncology P.A., the cancer center allows patients to receive both chemotherapy and radiation treatments on an outpatient basis from one location. "What we’re looking at is a whole team approach," says Laurence Tokaz, M.D., medical oncologist at the South Austin Cancer Center. "We’re not just looking at this as a medical oncology patient," says Tokaz. "We’re looking at this and saying, `Hey, this is a person with cancer.’ " Dzuik adds, "More and more, we’re doing combined modality treatments." Taking an integrated approach can optimize the cancer treatment, Dzuik says. The result of a six-year plan, the cancer center was built in South Austin because of the proximity of the hospital and active physician groups in the area, says Tokaz. "This fills a significant void in treatment," Tokaz says. Margaret Kendrick, acting director of patient services at Shivers Cancer Center, agrees there is room in Austin for another cancer center. "Do we need another cancer center?" Kendrick asks. "Yes." The demographics of the Austin area, she says, show, within a year or so, the South Austin Cancer Center should have plenty of patients. And as Georgetown and Del Webb’s Sun City grow, says Kendrick, there will be a need for an additional cancer center. Sun City Georgetown, a community for senior citizens, recently sold its 1,000th home. The American Center Society counted an estimated 84,200 new cancer cases in Texas last year, out of 1.3 million nationwide. In Austin, the estimated number of new cases diagnosed in 1996 was nearly 3,000, and the annual number of cancer deaths in Austin is approximately 1,200. Because Shivers is a non-profit and has a fiscal responsibility to the community, says Kendrick, it still relies on the standard technology similar to an X-ray to plan radiation treatment. Although Kendrick acknowledges that virtual CT simulation is more convenient to the patient during treatment planning, she says both technologies take the same amount of time during treatment. "Since they’re a new center, they get the newest toys," Kendrick says. Vivian Smith, executive director of Shivers Cancer Center, says Shivers is considering a number of different new technologies for cancer treatment. "We’ve continued and will continue to upgrade," Smith says. Smith says Shivers is careful not to jump on any one technology’s bandwagon, however. The center’s officials cautiously evaluate all the new options and aim to choose the most effective technology that won’t be obsolete as soon as it arrives. The cutting-edge technology at the South Austin Cancer Center may prove, however, to have a gravitational pull in recruiting more quality physicians to the area. "There’s no question that the ability to practice around a state-of-the-art facility is very attractive," says Michael Teneriello, M.D., a gynecologic oncologist at the South Austin Cancer Center who came to Austin from Pittsburgh. "It’s a great advantage," Teneriello says. Shelby L. Murphy is an Austin-based freelance writer.

Response:

I guess everybody has to have something to worry about. I start radiation in a couple of weeks, and I’m scared. I frankly don’t know which one I was more scared of. Radiation or chemo. I got through the chemo…but not without my share of complications that I’m still not fully over. And just to help things along in the worry department, I have a friend of a friend who got leukemia after her radiation. I mean, is all this actually worth it? When I was investigating the chemo, what I read indicated that the old er you get, the less the percentage rate increases to insure that you don’t get it back. In my case, it was somewhere between 3 to 4%. Considering what happened to me during chemo, I’m not sure it was worth it. Now with radiation, I’m wondering the same thing. Except I don’t have the percentages in radiation. Also I understand that there are machines that are much more sophisticated at administering the exact dose where you need it to alleviate side effects. However, every oncologist I talked to says there is no new machine. I don’t know if that’s because they don’t know about it or there really isn’t one. But I feel certain I picked up that little tidbit somewhere. Anyone has thoughts or should I just go find my bottle of Xanax and shut up about it? janice

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Q about Metabolism Slowing

Question:

Nina, If you need an OB/GYN, e-mail me privately, and I’ll give you my doctor’s phone number – he’s a sweetheart and not unsympathetic to our WOE. Ditto if you need an internist or dentist. Myra

Response:

Aha. Well, I’d like to say knowing is half the battle but sometimes it isn’t, ’cause there isn’t much one can do. I’m in a doctor search right now to get my estrogen levels tested (and some other annoying female stuff) but it’s not like I can do anything about them. Nina, If you need an OB/GYN, e-mail me privately, and I’ll give you my doctor’s phone number – he’s a sweetheart and not unsympathetic to our WOE. Ditto if you need an internist or dentist.

Will do. I have to go through the mounds of paper that my insurance company sent me to see what the deal is. I hate that part the most I think! Cheers, Nina — SlackMistress 2.0 http://www.theslack.com

Response:

Will do. I have to go through the mounds of paper that my insurance company sent me to see what the deal is. I hate that part the most I think!

My internist is in Santa Monica – so that should be pretty local to you. My OB/GYN is in Van Nuys, though. Myra

Response:

Will do. I have to go through the mounds of paper that my insurance company sent me to see what the deal is. I hate that part the most I think! My internist is in Santa Monica – so that should be pretty local to you.

Cool. I’d definitely be interested, although I’m trying to find a sports medicine person who will also run the blood tests I want. My OB/GYN is in Van Nuys, though.

Well, it’s not like I go all that often. I actually have someone I really like, just don’t know if she’s part of my plan. Cheers, Nina — SlackMistress 2.0 http://www.theslack.com

Response:

Cool. I’d definitely be interested, although I’m trying to find a sports medicine person who will also run the blood tests I want.

Well, when I blew out my knee about 7 years ago, my doctor referred me to a sports medicine orthopedist, so I think he’s pretty well connected there. He’s the kind of doctor who will sit with you in his office for an hour to discuss what you want and how you want to go about it. He’s also computer literate. <g Myra

Response:

Will do. I have to go through the mounds of paper that my insurance company sent me to see what the deal is. I hate that part the most I think!

ehheeh for me its the feet in the stirrups! Tinakaye 203/122 http://www.tinakaye.com

Response:

Will do. I have to go through the mounds of paper that my insurance company sent me to see what the deal is. I hate that part the most I think! ehheeh for me its the feet in the stirrups!

I think the worst came when the doctor doing my exam told me "What a cute little cervix you have!" I mean… god. Amy

Response:

ehheeh for me its the feet in the stirrups!

I can handle that – no problem. It’s the cold speculum that gets me! Myra

Response:

I think the worst came when the doctor doing my exam told me "What a cute little cervix you have!"

Well, you can’t hate a man who likes his job…. I mean… god.

No, that’s what they *think* they are. <g Myra

Response:

ehheeh for me its the feet in the stirrups!

For me it’s the saddle sores after a long cattle drive. -Adam (uh, right?) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can handle that – no problem. It’s the cold speculum that gets me! Myra

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will do. I have to go through the mounds of paper that my insurance company sent me to see what the deal is. I hate that part the most I think! ehheeh for me its the feet in the stirrups! I think the worst came when the doctor doing my exam told me "What a cute little cervix you have!" I mean… god. Amy

Oh my word…… I would have died!! Tinakaye 203/122 http://www.tinakaye.com

Response:

ehheeh for me its the feet in the stirrups! For me it’s the saddle sores after a long cattle drive. -Adam (uh, right?)

Uhhh something like that! LMBO Tinakaye 203/122 http://www.tinakaye.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can handle that – no problem. It’s the cold speculum that gets me! Myra

Response:

I can handle that – no problem. It’s the cold speculum that gets me! Myra

After it took over 10 attempts to insert my IUD everything else on at the OB/GYN’s table is now considered a laugh. — Rudy – Remove the Z from my address to respond. Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks, We are always reading postings where people talk about eating a lot of calories to keep their metabolism from slowing. However, we also see a lot of us whose metabolisms slow anyway after some time on low carb. I have seen various research studies that suggest that EVERYONE’S metabolism is going to slow after losing 10% of initial body weight. I have also seen the reference in Lyle MacDonald’s Ketogenic Diet to the fact that low carbing depresses thyroid. So what I’d like to know is this: does anyone have any references that show that increasing calories on a low carb diet in any way prevents metabolism slow down? Also, given that there are a bunch of studies that show that maintaining a very low calorie diet can lead to increased lifespan in many species, is there any reason, besides a desire to pig out on yummy food, for wanting our metabolisms to be high?

One word: leptin. Go to ww.deja.com into theadvanced group search. in the search words box type the following: leptin refeed lyle in the newsgroup to search box, type misc.fitness.weights All will be revealed.

Response:

Folks, We are always reading postings where people talk about eating a lot of calories to keep their metabolism from slowing. However, we also see a lot of us whose metabolisms slow anyway after some time on low carb. I have seen various research studies that suggest that EVERYONE’S metabolism is going to slow after losing 10% of initial body weight. I have also seen the reference in Lyle MacDonald’s Ketogenic Diet to the fact that low carbing depresses thyroid. So what I’d like to know is this: does anyone have any references that show that increasing calories on a low carb diet in any way prevents metabolism slow down?

The increasing metabolism by eating more calories isn’t a long-term fix. If that were true, no one would be fat. And it’s not low carb specific. From purely a calorie issue, if you eat too far under maintenance, or simply under maintenance at all, your metabolism slows down, because the body isn’t getting what it needs to maintain the current weight (which is what you’re trying to do, you’re trying to diet). How long and to what degree that slowdown takes depends on your body, your exercise, how big a deficit you have, any medical conditions, etc. To ‘reset’ to your initial metabolism, taking a week or two off and eating at maintenance calories signals the body that it isn’t fasting anymore, and should bring it back to previous levels. It won’t make anyone who wasn’t an efficient fat burning machine suddenly a fat burning machine. However, if someone doesn’t count calories at all (like some LC dieters), trying to do the above would be useless, IMO. The only reference I have is Lyle’s Q&A Here it is: http://216.150.5.6/exclusive/mcdonald/vol02/990415.htm I’m currently eating at maintenance for 12 weeks, but it’s also due to the fact that I’m embarking on an incredibly heavy lifting program as well. Cheers, Nina — SlackMistress 2.0 http://www.theslack.com

Response:

Interesting stuff, Nina and Steve! I’m really in a quandary right now. I have found that dropping both carbs and calories to ridiculous levels will lead to slight weight loss. I’m sitting at 149 right now, almost 3 weeks after my meat fast, having kept calories to about 1300 and carbs to under 20 (well under some days) for the last 4 days. But by noon today, I was so dizzy and felt so lousy, despite taking a lot of potassium and supplements, that I decided this COULDN’T be what my body wanted. The same thing happened on day 4 of the meat fast. I took in 30 gms of carbs for lunch and it improved how I felt enough that I decided that the ultra low carbs were the problem. But I’m really wondering what to do. The 4 lbs I’ve dropped make a huge difference in the reference jeans. I could be happy staying at this size. But I have a horrible feeling that if I go back to eating a supposedly maintenance diet of anything over 2000 calories I’m going to start bulking up again. Is it metabolically reasonable for someone at approx 27% bodyfat (big boobs included) to cycle back and forth between a moderate diabetes-controling low carb of 30 gms max a meal with calories at 2000 and then do two days a week of very low carbs/calories? Should I do two weeks at some kind of maintenance level to clear things out? And if so, what is maintenance when you sit typing all day and are middle aged and weigh around 149? Damn I wish someone would study weight in middle aged women so it wasn’t all guesswork. NONE of what worked for me while keeping my weight where I wanted it for 40 years works anymore. And I’m not talking "yo-yo" diets. I’m talking taking off that 5 lbs whenever necessary so that it never got out of control.

Response:

Is it metabolically reasonable for someone at approx 27% bodyfat (big boobs included) to cycle back and forth between a moderate diabetes-controling low carb of 30 gms max a meal with calories at 2000 and then do two days a week of very low carbs/calories? Should I do two weeks at some kind of maintenance level to clear things out? And if so, what is maintenance when you sit typing all day and are middle aged and weigh around 149?

You were doing about 8 cals a pound, right? Here’s what I’d do if I were you. Don’t ask me why, I don’t have a reason. But I think you’re going to go crazy if you can’t eat a tiny bit more for right now. I’d try 11-12 cals a pound for maintenance for two weeks. Keep cardio exercise (you walk, right?) exactly the same. After two weeks, I’d cut to 10 cals a pound and up my cardio exercise – if you were doing 2-3 days a week of 30 minutes, I’d make it 4-5 times a week at 30 minutes, or increase the duration. I’d do this for four weeks, and reassess from there. Damn I wish someone would study weight in middle aged women so it wasn’t all guesswork. NONE of what worked for me while keeping my weight where I wanted it for 40 years works anymore. And I’m not talking "yo-yo" diets. I’m talking taking off that 5 lbs whenever necessary so that it never got out of control.

They so rarely study women, much less middle-aged women. Bastards! Cheers, Nina — SlackMistress 2.0 http://www.theslack.com

Response:

Funny you should say that! I’m facing the same thing. Hormone connections. Some clues I’ve been finding: Middle-aged changing thyroid. Arem’s "Thyroid Solution." Could be middle-aged female hormones. Dr. Christine Northrup and Dr. Diana Schwartzbein. I even read the sections on hormones in Suzanne Somers’ latest book, suppressing my shudders at the title and her purple web site. She is writing experiential and anecdotal data anyhoo. Connie OR

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting stuff, Nina and Steve! Damn I wish someone would study weight in middle aged women so it wasn’t all guesswork. NONE of what worked for me while keeping my weight where I wanted it for 40 years works anymore. And I’m not talking "yo-yo" diets. I’m talking taking off that 5 lbs whenever necessary so that it never got out of control.

Response:

Nina, I’m going to try your suggestions. I was walking around with my 34 shorts just about falling off, but the fun of being skinny went out of it when I started to wonder if I was going to faint on the way to the post office. So today I did a serious planned carb up and I feel about 10 times better than yesterday. The difference is impressive. I had to do 240 miles of driving to take my son to an SAT site 40 minutes from here and then when we got back, I had to drive an hour o help move my daughter’s stuff to a new apartment. I needed to be alert, driving in the rain and fog, and it worked out great. The thing that irks me is that a year ago I was eating moderately low carb (40ish) with a nice dinner out each weekend where I could have a treat and staying at the same reasonably low weight (148) forever. Then this past year it suddenly got impossible to maintain that way and now I seem to gain just looking at food. The difference? My periods stopped and I cut way back on my estrogen supplements. So I suspect my body is fighting for every ounce of fat to keep the estrogen levels high. My sweetie is starting to get concerned that I’m developing an eating disorder, and I think he might have a point. But as someone said on the Diabetes newsgroup, Diabetes IS an eating disorder. Still, I’m the kind of person who likes to enjoy life, and not one of those people who will happily subsist on Purina People Chow. So I’ll try the new regimen and see how that works. Whatever carbs I ate today most certainly got worked off in adrenaline. Usually my sweetie doesn’t even let me behind the wheel of a car (I don’t have the world’s best vision to start with and one of the things I’m dealing with lately as part of this change are sudden scary changes in my visual acuity, so that all of a sudden I might not be able to read the signs on the highway) but today I had to drive and I managed it without hitting anything. But HEY GET THIS. A major agent who I queried this week just asked to read my new novel. I met thig guy ten years ago through a referral from a world famous novelist I met online, back when there were very few people online and everyone was very helpful. He is as real as they get. I am seriously psyched, though I’d put my chances of having him take this particular novel at maybe 1 in 20.

Response:

I was walking around with my 34 shorts just about falling off, but the fun of being skinny went out of it when I started to wonder if I was going to faint on the way to the post office.

I can only imagine. So today I did a serious planned carb up and I feel about 10 times better than yesterday. The difference is impressive. I had to do 240 miles of driving to take my son to an SAT site 40 minutes from here and then when we got back, I had to drive an hour o help move my daughter’s stuff to a new apartment. I needed to be alert, driving in the rain and fog, and it worked out great.

Phew. The thing that irks me is that a year ago I was eating moderately low carb (40ish) with a nice dinner out each weekend where I could have a treat and staying at the same reasonably low weight (148) forever. Then this past year it suddenly got impossible to maintain that way and now I seem to gain just looking at food. The difference? My periods stopped and I cut way back on my estrogen supplements. So I suspect my body is fighting for every ounce of fat to keep the estrogen levels high.

Aha. Well, I’d like to say knowing is half the battle but sometimes it isn’t, ’cause there isn’t much one can do. I’m in a doctor search right now to get my estrogen levels tested (and some other annoying female stuff) but it’s not like I can do anything about them. At one point when I couldn’t lose weight a nurse asked me over the phone (I was basically calling around trying to get some info on different doctors) if I was going through menopause. At 28? Great, something else to worry about (but I don’t think that’s it) My sweetie is starting to get concerned that I’m developing an eating disorder, and I think he might have a point. But as someone said on the Diabetes newsgroup, Diabetes IS an eating disorder. Still, I’m the kind of person who likes to enjoy life, and not one of those people who will happily subsist on Purina People Chow.

It’s hard not to be somewhat obssessed, just in the fight to figure out what works. It’s not as if you’re not willing to do it, it’s just So I’ll try the new regimen and see how that works. Whatever carbs I ate today most certainly got worked off in adrenaline. Usually my sweetie doesn’t even let me behind the wheel of a car (I don’t have the world’s best vision to start with and one of the things I’m dealing with lately as part of this change are sudden scary changes in my visual acuity, so that all of a sudden I might not be able to read the signs on the highway) but today I had to drive and I managed it without hitting anything. But HEY GET THIS. A major agent who I queried this week just asked to read my new novel. I met thig guy ten years ago through a referral from a world famous novelist I met online, back when there were very few people online and everyone was very helpful. He is as real as they get. I am seriously psyched, though I’d put my chances of having him take this particular novel at maybe 1 in 20.

So, he’s reading you! Being read is a first step (as you well know), and even if he doesn’t take this one, you are now officially "out there" as a fiction writer. I know it’s a nail-biting time, though, we had about 2 weeks between when we sent in our scripts to our now-agent and when he called (it was over the holidays) and we spent the entire time coming up with every possible reaction he might have. Cheers, Nina — SlackMistress 2.0 http://www.theslack.com

Response:

Folks, I’ve been noticing that my messages are posting with letters dropped and changed all over the place. This is NOT happening on my end. I do proofread, and though I might still make occasional typos, the blatant stuff only happens when I use Outlook to post here, not when I sent mail using Pegasus, my usual mailer. Has anyone else had this problem. It’s making me look like an idiot when I’m only mildly foolish. <g

Response:

Nina, I bumped carbs yesterday to 85 (!!!) and woke up today down to 149. I couldn’t get my calories up to 1800 though as I wanted to keep the fat reasonable to balance all the carbs. Today I’ll shoot for 1800, but my Sweetie insists we go out somewhere expensive to eat and since he drove his truck to my daughters and carried half her boxes–and she’s not even his kid–I figure he gets whatever he wants today. Intense exercise and dieting can completely screw up the cycles. Years ago I lived in a commune where we had no money for food and had to eat what we could grow and on brown rice that could be bought in bulk. We lived like this for a few years, doing a lot of physical labor daily (I had arms like a stevedore) and quite a few of the women stopped menstruating. It’s another adaptation to starvation. (Insulin resistant as I was back in my early 20s, I packed on 30 lbs which came off without dieting as soon as I returned to a more normal diet.)

Response:

Nina, I bumped carbs yesterday to 85 (!!!) and woke up today down to 149.

Woo! I couldn’t get my calories up to 1800 though as I wanted to keep the fat reasonable to balance all the carbs. Today I’ll shoot for 1800, but my Sweetie insists we go out somewhere expensive to eat and since he drove his truck to my daughters and carried half her boxes–and she’s not even his kid–I figure he gets whatever he wants today.

Sounds like a good plan. Intense exercise and dieting can completely screw up the cycles. Years ago I lived in a commune where we had no money for food and had to eat what we could grow and on brown rice that could be bought in bulk. We lived like this for a few years, doing a lot of physical labor daily (I had arms like a stevedore) and quite a few of the women stopped menstruating. It’s another adaptation to starvation.

Yup, I’ve heard of this too. Glad you came to your senses. Cheers, Nina — SlackMistress 2.0 http://www.theslack.com

Response:

Who knows. Some people just need more calories to be happy though. If you eat, and you feel good, thats all you need. Believe it or not, most people do not feel full unless that eat like 2000 calories per day. I only hit that level once or twice per year.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks, We are always reading postings where people talk about eating a lot of calories to keep their metabolism from slowing. However, we also see a lot of us whose metabolisms slow anyway after some time on low carb. I have seen various research studies that suggest that EVERYONE’S metabolism is going to slow after losing 10% of initial body weight. I have also seen the reference in Lyle MacDonald’s Ketogenic Diet to the fact that low carbing depresses thyroid. So what I’d like to know is this: does anyone have any references that show that increasing calories on a low carb diet in any way prevents metabolism slow down? Also, given that there are a bunch of studies that show that maintaining a very low calorie diet can lead to increased lifespan in many species, is there any reason, besides a desire to pig out on yummy food, for wanting our metabolisms to be high?

Response:

Category Categories: Thyroid Solution | No Comments »

Is soy safe?

Question:

For years I have eaten a great deal of soy protein. I was told it was good for me. There has been no shortage of information expounding the benefits of soy. Now, I am hearing that soy is not good for me. I’ve heard rumors that it has a negative effect on metabolism. I’ve heard it can mess up your thyroid and create a hypothyroid condition. I’ve even heard it is linked to Alzheimer’s syndrome. Nevertheless, I can’t find a single article or study to support the rumors. Does anybody have any links or sources to back of rumors about the dark side of soy? I’d really like to know. Sassy

Response:

Does anybody have any links or sources to back of rumors about the dark side of soy?

First off, let me say that as a dedicated carnivore, I also eat Tofu, Miso, and sometimes Tempeh, and that I’ll continue to do so in the future, as it’s only an occasional food for me. I don’t send this along to scare people, or make them stop eating what they want to eat, but rather because it’s quite interesting. I don’t particularly care if y’all eat soy products or not. As for the hormone stuff where it concerns children, let me just say that black children are *known* for developing early – I certainly did, and there weren’t a block of tofu or soybean in sight. Newest Research On Why You Should Avoid Soy

by Sally Fallon & Mary G. Enig, Ph.D. Cinderella’s Dark Side The propaganda that has created the soy sales miracle is all the more remarkable because, only a few decades ago, the soybean was considered unfit to eat – even in Asia. During the Chou Dynasty (1134- 246 BC) the soybean was designated one of the five sacred grains, along with barley, wheat, millet and rice. However, the pictograph for the soybean, which dates from earlier times, indicates that it was not first used as a food; for whereas the pictographs for the other four grains show the seed and stem structure of the plant, the pictograph for the soybean emphasizes the root structure. Agricultural literature of the period speaks frequently of the soybean and its use in crop rotation. Apparently the soy plant was initially used as a method of fixing nitrogen.13 The soybean did not serve as a food until the discovery of fermentation techniques, some time during the Chou Dynasty. The first soy foods were fermented products like tempeh, natto, miso and soy sauce. At a later date, possibly in the 2nd century BC, Chinese scientists discovered that a pur

Category Categories: Thyroid Solution | No Comments »

Sex & Marriage Question

Question:

I know I’m not saying this right, but I’ll try to type what I mean. I don’t understand why women especially can not just have sex. We hear so much in here how the men are complaining about their wives not having sex after they are married, shouldn’t the women just "want" to have sex for the closeness. I’m not really talking about emotions having to be filled before hand…..sheesh, what do I mean. Here is an example: In my marriage I feel like we should have sex a lot, if dh is busy and I have something going on that permits us not to have sex for a couple days, I need sex to reconfirm that we love each other. Wow, I sound like a man, huh? lol I am not necessarily looking to get my "nut" (dh’s favorite saying), but to know that I am loved, and that our marriage is foremost in our lives. momalot-who is confusing herself. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… What ever happened to wanting sex for the intimacy involved. You would think that women (and men) who didn’t have any desire for orgasm or sex would still want to be emotionally fullfilled by having sex with there spouse. But sex is not the only way that a couple can achieve intimacy and emotional fulfillment. In fact, many women (and I would think, men, as well) may need to feel close and emotionally fulfilled *before* they can even feel sexual.

Response:

Hi Sonara, I thought everyone knew that sex and making love are not the same thing. Sex is a physical act, and it feels good, sometimes a person just needs to get laid, other times one needs to be loved and held. There’s a difference.

If you say so, I’ll take your word for it. That’s not how it is for me though. Ian

Response:

* Hi Group, * * My wife and I seperated for a year. She begged me to come back, I mean * begged me. Now after 8 months, things are the same way they were before we * split. NO SEX. She has no disire for sex. She thinks I should be ok with * that and as she says " if you truly loved me, you would support me and show * how much you love me". We have had sex 1 time in the last 4 months and she * laid there like she was dead and couldn’t wait for me to get off.

dump that bitch now. * I am getting so angry at her. I feel like a fool because I new she would do * this again. Am I wrong? I think I deserve a partner who likes sex at least * half as much as I do.

yep. I am currently reading a book about thyroid (a little hormonal gland in our bodies). One of the points that it makes is that when thyroid is not producing enough thyroid hormones, the person becomes lazy and disinterested in sex, sleeps a lot etc. weight gains and so on.

yeah. so what. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This happens to women extremely frequently. like one in 10 women or so is affected. You may want to get her to a endocrinologist before divorcing. I mean, maybe there is nothing wrong with her and she is just a lazy unloving person. In which case you may have a good case for a divorce. But perhaps, she has a medical condition which is treatable. igor * Some background on me: I am always taking care of our kids, I get them up * for school, I get their breakfast, I make their lunch, I take them to * school, I help them with their homework, I fold all of the laundry, I do the * ironing, and it just goes on and on…… I also take care of myself, work * out, run, good job, etc….

she’s using you. * I really wish she would just leave. I don’t need her. She is such a * beautiful girl, what a waste….. * * your thoughts…please!!!!!

If you think I’m wrong above: you said things were back to where they were.. you said you knew she was going to do this.. did she have sex with you on the way back to you? and then stop? that will be a clue, eh? does she show normal energy for things she likes to do? another clue. If she loved you she’d find a way to compromise, not just deny you.. so how does she approach compromise? Is it.. I don’t feel like sex so drop the subject and let’s talk about love? How much effort is she asking you to put out compared to how much effort some compromise on sex would require of her? How does she feel about a surrogate sexual partner? If you keep asking questions and watching her behavior you ought to know pretty damn quick. for my money if there is no agreement on the importance of sex, there is no agreement, no hope for conciliation. no matter what anyone elses view of this is you aren’t going to wake up tomorrow happy to not have sex again and again and again. I had a girlfriend who was like this, and used, at first, her past sad experiences with men for her excuse. Then it was something I’m mad at you, or I’m too tired, or you picked the wrong time. It never stopped. She just didn’t like sex but wanted someone to blame, someone to victimize, someone to control. think it over, your sex life counts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – * — Do your algebra homework at http://www.algebra.com Solve: x^2+4x+3=0 Plot: y=3*sin(x^2) Ask Questions Word Problems http://www.algebra.com

Response:

: Hi John,

: There’s a whole lot more to life and intimacy than just sex. : Being emotionally fulfilled by or with your partner covers a lot : more ground than sex could ever come close to. There has to be : more just to make sex possible, else we are little more than : rutting animals. It is THIS that elevates above all other : creatures. : While I agree with you, I’d still regard sex as the ultimate affirmation : and communication ofall the other intimacies. In many ways it’s the : only one! That’s how I see it: a physical expression of what is already : felt, rather than an "act" in isolation. : Cheers, : Ian Hmmmmm….I kind of disagree with both or you guys on this one. I pretty much agree with my wife, an animal behaviour nut, that actually we "are little more than rutting animals". What "elevates us" (your description, not mine) above the other creatures is the combination of our brains and hands (for manipulation). The "sacredness of sex" only serves to elevate and mystify it to a point that ends up confusing people as to its importance. As to the ultimate form of intimacy, I think you can still get totally intimate with someone that you don’t have sex with. John W.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Hi John, : There’s a whole lot more to life and intimacy than just sex. : Being emotionally fulfilled by or with your partner covers a lot : more ground than sex could ever come close to. There has to be : more just to make sex possible, else we are little more than : rutting animals. It is THIS that elevates above all other : creatures. : While I agree with you, I’d still regard sex as the ultimate affirmation : and communication ofall the other intimacies. In many ways it’s the : only one! That’s how I see it: a physical expression of what is already : felt, rather than an "act" in isolation. : Cheers, : Ian Hmmmmm….I kind of disagree with both or you guys on this one. I pretty much agree with my wife, an animal behaviour nut, that actually we "are little more than rutting animals". What "elevates us" (your description, not mine) above the other creatures is the combination of our brains and hands (for manipulation). The "sacredness of sex" only serves to elevate and mystify it to a point that ends up confusing people as to its importance. As to the ultimate form of intimacy, I think you can still get totally intimate with someone that you don’t have sex with. John W.

Interesting observation. I have had women friends in the past that I felt emotionally and/or mentally intimate with – but I was married and the "sex" factor never entered into it! Lloyd Before you buy.

Response:

One of the reasons that you don’t get it, is **that you are getting it** Sincerly ….. : ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know what confuses me? It seems like there are so many excuses for not having sex. Depression, medicines, health problems, moods, ects. What ever happened to wanting sex for the intimacy involved. You would think that women (and men) who didn’t have any desire for orgasm or sex would still want to be emotionally fullfilled by having sex with there spouse. I just don’t get it. momalot

Response:

I thought everyone knew that sex and making love are not the same thing. Sex is a physical act, and it feels good, sometimes a person just needs to get laid, other times one needs to be loved and held. There’s a difference.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… I don’t understand why women especially can not just have sex. I don’t think there’s anything *to* understand… just different strokes for different folks. In your example you state that you need sex to reconfirm your love between you and your husband. That’s not "just having sex." You’re having sex because you have "a need" (your need to know that you are loved) and that need is being fulfilled when you are intimate. That’s how it works for you. Other people may find their reaffirmation through other means… like cuddling on the couch, or talking and listening to each other, or by laughing and being silly, etc., etc. Sex just happens to be the ultimate reward.

Response:

ditch the bitch.she wants your wallet not you. I’ve read all the responses below and while valid ignore the obvious….she’s a breeder, lose her and get someone who appreciated YOU.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group, My wife and I seperated for a year. She begged me to come back, I mean begged me. Now after 8 months, things are the same way they were before we split. NO SEX. She has no disire for sex. She thinks I should be ok with that and as she says " if you truly loved me, you would support me and show how much you love me". We have had sex 1 time in the last 4 months and she laid there like she was dead and couldn’t wait for me to get off. I am getting so angry at her. I feel like a fool because I new she would do this again. Am I wrong? I think I deserve a partner who likes sex at least half as much as I do. Some background on me: I am always taking care of our kids, I get them up for school, I get their breakfast, I make their lunch, I take them to school, I help them with their homework, I fold all of the laundry, I do the ironing, and it just goes on and on…… I also take care of myself, work out, run, good job, etc…. I really wish she would just leave. I don’t need her. She is such a beautiful girl, what a waste….. your thoughts…please!!!!!

Response:

Hi John, Hmmmmm….I kind of disagree with both or you guys on this one. I pretty much agree with my wife, an animal behaviour nut, that actually we "are little more than rutting animals". What "elevates us" (your description, not mine) above the other creatures is the combination of our brains and hands (for manipulation). The "sacredness of sex" only serves to elevate and mystify it to a point that ends up confusing people as to its importance. As to the ultimate form of intimacy, I think you can still get totally intimate with someone that you don’t have sex with.

While there the roots of sex are definitely of the "rutting animals" sort, I do think that the very nature of the human brain and our incredible sophistication means that we have so much more to bring to it (though most people don’t bother). As far as intimacy goes, I agree that you can be very intimate with others in other ways, but to me, there is no greater physical intimacy than the act of sex (though it doesn’t always turn out that way), apart from giving birth. Interesting. I see your points as valid, just a different way of looking at it, I guess. Regards, Ian

Response:

Please do us a favor and remove alt.support.thyroid from this cross-posting. Unless you have specific questions relating to the thyroid the discussion belongs in the divorce and marriage groups. As for the general question on the thyroid – Read Ridha Arem’s book "The Thyroid Solution" He discusses relationship issues and can give you a much better understanding of what is going on with a spouse who is hypo or hyperthyroid. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I second the issue about the thyroid as Igor has stated. My wife actually became so ill with it that she became irrational and was on the verge of seeking other men for the comfort I wasn’t giving her over the sexual grief and frustration we shared. It was discovered that she had Hypothyroidism and was on the verge of a major breakdown when the doctor discovered it. She is making a slow recovery but every day gets better. Another area to consider is past sexual abuse or traumas. Issues such as rape and molestation can play hell on her libido subconsciously. Suggest that you see a social worker or psychologist about your situation. You’ll be surprised at the outcome. If you really love her, take a look at these things. Oh yeah, you gotta suck her nipples to start her engines… foreplay… Nummy! <g * Hi Group, * * My wife and I seperated for a year. She begged me to come back, I mean * begged me. Now after 8 months, things are the same way they were before we * split. NO SEX. She has no disire for sex. She thinks I should be ok with * that and as she says " if you truly loved me, you would support me and show * how much you love me". We have had sex 1 time in the last 4 months and she * laid there like she was dead and couldn’t wait for me to get off. * * I am getting so angry at her. I feel like a fool because I new she would do * this again. Am I wrong? I think I deserve a partner who likes sex at least * half as much as I do. I am currently reading a book about thyroid (a little hormonal gland in our bodies). One of the points that it makes is that when thyroid is not producing enough thyroid hormones, the person becomes lazy and disinterested in sex, sleeps a lot etc. weight gains and so on. This happens to women extremely frequently. like one in 10 women or so is affected. You may want to get her to a endocrinologist before divorcing. I mean, maybe there is nothing wrong with her and she is just a lazy unloving person. In which case you may have a good case for a divorce. But perhaps, she has a medical condition which is treatable. igor * Some background on me: I am always taking care of our kids, I get them up * for school, I get their breakfast, I make their lunch, I take them to * school, I help them with their homework, I fold all of the laundry, I do the * ironing, and it just goes on and on…… I also take care of myself, work * out, run, good job, etc…. * * I really wish she would just leave. I don’t need her. She is such a * beautiful girl, what a waste….. * * your thoughts…please!!!!! * * — Do your algebra homework at http://www.algebra.com Solve: x^2+4x+3=0 Plot: y=3*sin(x^2) Ask Questions Word Problems http://www.algebra.com Before you buy.

Response:

Hi John, There’s a whole lot more to life and intimacy than just sex. Being emotionally fulfilled by or with your partner covers a lot more ground than sex could ever come close to. There has to be more just to make sex possible, else we are little more than rutting animals. It is THIS that elevates above all other creatures.

While I agree with you, I’d still regard sex as the ultimate affirmation and communication ofall the other intimacies. In many ways it’s the only one! That’s how I see it: a physical expression of what is already felt, rather than an "act" in isolation. Cheers, Ian

Response:

There’s a whole lot more to life and intimacy than just sex. Being emotionally fulfilled by or with your partner covers a lot more ground than sex could ever come close to. There has to be more just to make sex possible, else we are little more than rutting animals. It is THIS that elevates above all other creatures. Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – * Hi Group, * * My wife and I seperated for a year. She begged me to come back, I mean * begged me. Now after 8 months, things are the same way they were before we * split. NO SEX. She has no disire for sex. She thinks I should be ok with * that and as she says " if you truly loved me, you would support me and show * how much you love me". We have had sex 1 time in the last 4 months and she * laid there like she was dead and couldn’t wait for me to get off. * * I am getting so angry at her. I feel like a fool because I new she would do * this again. Am I wrong? I think I deserve a partner who likes sex at least * half as much as I do. I am currently reading a book about thyroid (a little hormonal gland in our bodies). One of the points that it makes is that when thyroid is not producing enough thyroid hormones, the person becomes lazy and disinterested in sex, sleeps a lot etc. weight gains and so on. This happens to women extremely frequently. like one in 10 women or so is affected. You may want to get her to a endocrinologist before divorcing. I mean, maybe there is nothing wrong with her and she is just a lazy unloving person. In which case you may have a good case for a divorce. But perhaps, she has a medical condition which is treatable. igor * Some background on me: I am always taking care of our kids, I get them up * for school, I get their breakfast, I make their lunch, I take them to * school, I help them with their homework, I fold all of the laundry, I do the * ironing, and it just goes on and on…… I also take care of myself, work * out, run, good job, etc…. * * I really wish she would just leave. I don’t need her. She is such a * beautiful girl, what a waste….. * * your thoughts…please!!!!! * *

There is a point in everyones life where a man or a women dosen’t perfer having sex. But one should not use excuses, they should just tell the truth about not having, sometimes the man or the women is not in the mood, or they are feeling pressure. One should find the exact problem and deal with it and casually get back in the mood for sex, It is not the man’s fault or the women’s fault, it is just a phase that everyone goes through, I am glad i have an understanding husband. Sometimes he is not in the mood, and vis versa. But we deal with it and then it happens. We just need to take a look at what we have and not take it for granted. Betrue Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

{snip] she says " if you truly loved me, you would support me and show how much you love me".

Well, you ARE showing her how much you love her. Everything you do around the house, for the children and at work. And with sex. In most men the desire for initmacy, love and affection is expressed by actions. All too often, a man is told "You don’t love me" and he is dumbfounded when he can point to so many actions that are his way of expressing the love he feels for his wife. Men may not say "I love you" with words as often as we feel the need to express our love sexually. Desiring his wife is a man’s purest. most honest, expression of love. We cannot do everything our wives want and we cannot speak our feelings to them as often as they want. If, however, you are making an honest effort at showing and saying your love to your wife; If you are doing the best that you can do …. It’s HER problem and not yours. I am getting so angry at her.

This is normal. You angery is telling you that there is something wrong. You have three choices: Ignore it. Blame someone. Or do something about it. I feel like a fool because I knew she would do this again.

That is usually why we feel like fools – when we lead with our hearts, hoping for the best and expecting the worst. Am I wrong?

No. I think I deserve a partner who likes sex at least half as much as I do.

You deserve a partner that desires sex as much as you do. With everything you are doing, you deserve one that desires it MORE than you do. <grin All kidding aside, sexual activity in a marriage and a partner that desires sex is a normal expectation. The key here is sex is not something you get becuase you are a "good boy". Sex is something that partners share as part of the bonding and intimacy that everyone needs. Sex is one way we stay "connected" to our partner. A partner that rejects you sexually is rejecting perhaps the most important part of being human – the need for affection. I really wish she would just leave. I don’t need her. She is such a beautiful girl, what a waste….. your thoughts…please!!!!!

Ah, now we are getting to the important part – the part you already know. Your anger is telling you that you do not want to live this way anymore. You would really like for all the problems to go away. That is not going to happen by just wishing for it. Right now your wife is getting what she needs to continue the relationship and you are not. You need to tell her that. Non confrontationally and non threateningly. You need to decide what it is you want and how you think you can get it. I boilled down my needs into "I want a loving, affectionate, committed relationship". And I was able to expand it into about a paragraph about each point. At this point keep it general – not a laundry list of demands. Tell her this is not an arguement or a debate. Tell her point blank that the relationship must change in order for you to receive what you want and what you need. If she is willing to discuss this with you, great! See how much the two of you can accomplish on your own. Both of you will probably need to read some books on relationships to help you keep the process moving along. But, it sounds like you have already tried that. Therefore, you may have to tell here that you think marital therapy is required. If she agrees, great! Go find a therapist and give it some time to work. She may even need a medical workup to rule out clinical depression. The thing you have to watch out for is the attitude of "Talk is cheap". If all she ever wants to do is talk about her needs and your problems, you will not make progress. Until your needs and her problems are addressed, things really won’t change. You have to talk about both. What happened to me was as soon as we reached the point in the therapy that is was glaringly evident that we needed to talk about her problems and my needs, she started showing up late for appointments until she finally stopped attending altogether. If this happens to you, be prepared to ask her to leave. And, be prepared to initiate divorce proceedings even if she will not leave. After all, at this point you will have done everything humanly possible to solve the problems in your relationship. When you have done that, and that is not necessaruily where you are today, then it is time to end it. Hang in there, and hang out here. Steven Before you buy.

Response:

I have to agree with all of the other responders… There may be any one (or more) of a number of causes for your wife’s lack of desire, including history of abuse, physical causes, or other emotional problems such as the fear of intimacy. I went thru the same thing with my stbx. We started out like rabbits (fabulous, frequent sex), then went to what I called "water bill" sex: Once a quarter. I’ve always been one who enjoys sex as often as possible, so for me this was a HUGE problem. Stbx’s problem was a combination of factors. Yet, despite his sexual functioning problems, (or maybe because of them) he refused to address the problem for nearly 2 years, and became obsessed with online porn. All day, all night. Frankly, it became a real source of resentment for me… "You don’t want to have sex with me, but you’ll be at the PC for hours looking at other people having sex??" After 2 years of this, I could actually understand why people have affairs (I didn’t but sure was tempted a few times). Anyway, for me, the bottom line in all of this is twofold. There needs to be: 1. Honest communication between the partners re: why the lack of interest and how it affects each partner 2. The willingness on the "dysfunctional" partner to seek treatment (and the willingness of the ‘rejected’ partner to support him/her thru the treatment). Without both of these components, the problem (and resulting resentments, anger, hurt, rejection, etc) grows exponentially over time, guaranteed. I wish you luck. ~*~*~ Vicki ~*~*~ My website: Seethelight…The Lighter Side of the Web http://www.seethelight.net Now, go make some ripples.

| Hi Group, | | My wife and I seperated for a year. She begged me to come back, I mean | begged me. Now after 8 months, things are the same way they were before we | split. NO SEX. She has no disire for sex. She thinks I should be ok with | that and as she says " if you truly loved me, you would support me and show | how much you love me". We have had sex 1 time in the last 4 months and she | laid there like she was dead and couldn’t wait for me to get off. | | I am getting so angry at her. I feel like a fool because I new she would do | this again. Am I wrong? I think I deserve a partner who likes sex at least | half as much as I do. | | Some background on me: I am always taking care of our kids, I get them up | for school, I get their breakfast, I make their lunch, I take them to | school, I help them with their homework, I fold all of the laundry, I do the | ironing, and it just goes on and on…… I also take care of myself, work | out, run, good job, etc…. | | I really wish she would just leave. I don’t need her. She is such a | beautiful girl, what a waste….. | | your thoughts…please!!!!! | |

Response:

Sometimes, too, i think it’s just a matter of being with the wrong person… I got the creeps big time whenever my (now)ex even touched me… even looking back, i always had to drink quite a bit first… i just plain didn’t LIKE him!! But in previous relationships, things were ok.. And since i left the marriage, all systems are functioning normally… I would also suggest checking into the thyroid thing, as well as any other possible factors… Menopause? Often depression kills the libido, although it worked the opposite way for me. I find that the chemicals produced during orgasm are a powerful antidepressant and change my entire outlook on life… (of course, one can achieve this alone, but it’s WAAAY better with someone you love)… If you are interested in having sex regularly, as most healthy people are, then you deserve to have that in your life. I hope you and your wife will be able to work this out… (oh yeah, and the nipple thing….. ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I second the issue about the thyroid as Igor has stated. My wife actually became so ill with it that she became irrational and was on the verge of seeking other men for the comfort I wasn’t giving her over the sexual grief and frustration we shared. It was discovered that she had Hypothyroidism and was on the verge of a major breakdown when the doctor discovered it. She is making a slow recovery but every day gets better. Another area to consider is past sexual abuse or traumas. Issues such as rape and molestation can play hell on her libido subconsciously. Suggest that you see a social worker or psychologist about your situation. You’ll be surprised at the outcome. If you really love her, take a look at these things. Oh yeah, you gotta suck her nipples to start her engines… foreplay… * Hi Group, * * My wife and I seperated for a year. She begged me to come back, I mean * begged me. Now after 8 months, things are the same way they were before we * split. NO SEX. She has no disire for sex. She thinks I should be ok with * that and as she says " if you truly loved me, you would support me and show * how much you love me". We have had sex 1 time in the last 4 months and she * laid there like she was dead and couldn’t wait for me to get off. * * I am getting so angry at her. I feel like a fool because I new she would do * this again. Am I wrong? I think I deserve a partner who likes sex at least * half as much as I do. I am currently reading a book about thyroid (a little hormonal gland in our bodies). One of the points that it makes is that when thyroid is not producing enough thyroid hormones, the person becomes lazy and disinterested in sex, sleeps a lot etc. weight gains and so on. This happens to women extremely frequently. like one in 10 women or so is affected. You may want to get her to a endocrinologist before divorcing. I mean, maybe there is nothing wrong with her and she is just a lazy unloving person. In which case you may have a good case for a divorce. But perhaps, she has a medical condition which is treatable. igor * Some background on me: I am always taking care of our kids, I get them up * for school, I get their breakfast, I make their lunch, I take them to * school, I help them with their homework, I fold all of the laundry, I do the * ironing, and it just goes on and on…… I also take care of myself, work * out, run, good job, etc…. * * I really wish she would just leave. I don’t need her. She is such a * beautiful girl, what a waste….. * * your thoughts…please!!!!! * * — Do your algebra homework at http://www.algebra.com Solve: x^2+4x+3=0 Plot: y=3*sin(x^2) Ask Questions Word Problems http://www.algebra.com

Response:

Hi Peter, Yeah…..this sounds like kind-of strange behavior on her part. Is it something that you can actually talk to her about? On the one hand men are portrayed as sex-crazed idiots being led by the dumb-stick…and there are ample observations to support this. But in an effort not to seem like that, we often go to extremes not wanting to admit that the lack of sex in a marriage is something worth leaving over. If the sex is important to you and it is really gone even after her begging you to come back, don’t feel bad about exiting stage-left. Joun W.

: Hi Group, : My wife and I seperated for a year. She begged me to come back, I mean : begged me. Now after 8 months, things are the same way they were before we : split. NO SEX. She has no disire for sex. She thinks I should be ok with : that and as she says " if you truly loved me, you would support me and show : how much you love me". We have had sex 1 time in the last 4 months and she : laid there like she was dead and couldn’t wait for me to get off. : I am getting so angry at her. I feel like a fool because I new she would do : this again. Am I wrong? I think I deserve a partner who likes sex at least : half as much as I do. : Some background on me: I am always taking care of our kids, I get them up : for school, I get their breakfast, I make their lunch, I take them to : school, I help them with their homework, I fold all of the laundry, I do the : ironing, and it just goes on and on…… I also take care of myself, work : out, run, good job, etc…. : I really wish she would just leave. I don’t need her. She is such a : beautiful girl, what a waste….. : your thoughts…please!!!!!

Response:

says… What ever happened to wanting sex for the intimacy involved. You would think that women (and men) who didn’t have any desire for orgasm or sex would still want to be emotionally fullfilled by having sex with there spouse. But sex is not the only way that a couple can achieve intimacy and emotional fulfillment. In fact, many women (and I would think, men, as well) may need to feel close and emotionally fulfilled *before* they can even feel sexual.

Actually, i find sex without any physical arousal whatsoever is painful. And there are a lot of other ways to achieve intimacy. There is also sex withOUT intimacy… There’s nothing "intimate" about lying there waiting for someone to "finish their business" on top of you… there IS intimacy in a warm embrace, naked, feeling your skin against the other person’s skin even if you aren’t having sex….. Personally, i want both together…

Response:

if she’s not willing to try to find out why she doesn’t enjoy sex or won’t admit why she doesn’t enjoy it, you’ve already stated you know what to do. You don’t need her. Find someone who will enjoy you! and I know people will say sex isn’t everything but it certainly is a big part of marriage if one person wants it to be. good luck…lisa Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Peter, That is exactly how my former marriage was. Not just the sex part, but the other part also. I stuck it out for a long, long, time. But she eventually had many, many affairs. And I ended the marriage. And I have our daughter. Let me tell you something Peter, and this may not be something you want to hear….It’s not that your bad a sex with her. I would be willing to bet she has a problem with getting close. And as strange as this sounds, she will probably have affairs….sexual affairs. And you will be sitting back wondering….."she only wanted sex with me maybe once in 4 months, but the there. Tom

Response:

I second the issue about the thyroid as Igor has stated. My wife actually became so ill with it that she became irrational and was on the verge of seeking other men for the comfort I wasn’t giving her over the sexual grief and frustration we shared. It was discovered that she had Hypothyroidism and was on the verge of a major breakdown when the doctor discovered it. She is making a slow recovery but every day gets better. Another area to consider is past sexual abuse or traumas. Issues such as rape and molestation can play hell on her libido subconsciously. Suggest that you see a social worker or psychologist about your situation. You’ll be surprised at the outcome. If you really love her, take a look at these things. Oh yeah, you gotta suck her nipples to start her engines… foreplay…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – * Hi Group, * * My wife and I seperated for a year. She begged me to come back, I mean * begged me. Now after 8 months, things are the same way they were before we * split. NO SEX. She has no disire for sex. She thinks I should be ok with * that and as she says " if you truly loved me, you would support me and show * how much you love me". We have had sex 1 time in the last 4 months and she * laid there like she was dead and couldn’t wait for me to get off. * * I am getting so angry at her. I feel like a fool because I new she would do * this again. Am I wrong? I think I deserve a partner who likes sex at least * half as much as I do. I am currently reading a book about thyroid (a little hormonal gland in our bodies). One of the points that it makes is that when thyroid is not producing enough thyroid hormones, the person becomes lazy and disinterested in sex, sleeps a lot etc. weight gains and so on. This happens to women extremely frequently. like one in 10 women or so is affected. You may want to get her to a endocrinologist before divorcing. I mean, maybe there is nothing wrong with her and she is just a lazy unloving person. In which case you may have a good case for a divorce. But perhaps, she has a medical condition which is treatable. igor * Some background on me: I am always taking care of our kids, I get them up * for school, I get their breakfast, I make their lunch, I take them to * school, I help them with their homework, I fold all of the laundry, I do the * ironing, and it just goes on and on…… I also take care of myself, work * out, run, good job, etc…. * * I really wish she would just leave. I don’t need her. She is such a * beautiful girl, what a waste….. * * your thoughts…please!!!!! * * — Do your algebra homework at http://www.algebra.com Solve: x^2+4x+3=0 Plot: y=3*sin(x^2) Ask Questions Word Problems http://www.algebra.com

Response:

On the one hand men are portrayed as sex-crazed idiots being led by the dumb-stick…and there are ample observations to support this. But in an effort not to seem like that, we often go to extremes not wanting to admit that the lack of sex in a marriage is something worth leaving over.

Also, women who actually WANT sex are often portrayed as nymphos and sluts and "bad girls"…. It’s too bad it isn’t always recognized as a healthy, positive drive for BOTH sexes…. and that it’s perfectly acceptable and favorable to endulge in this pleasure in a mutually satisfying and loving relationship…. What a confusing world….

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I second the issue about the thyroid as Igor has stated. My wife actually became so ill with it that she became irrational and was on the verge of seeking other men for the comfort I wasn’t giving her over the sexual grief and frustration we shared. It was discovered that she had Hypothyroidism and was on the verge of a major breakdown when the doctor discovered it. She is making a slow recovery but every day gets better. Another area to consider is past sexual abuse or traumas. Issues such as rape and molestation can play hell on her libido subconsciously. Suggest that you see a social worker or psychologist about your situation. You’ll be surprised at the outcome. If you really love her, take a look at these things. Oh yeah, you gotta suck her nipples to start her engines… foreplay…

Nummy! <g – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – * Hi Group, * * My wife and I seperated for a year. She begged me to come back, I mean * begged me. Now after 8 months, things are the same way they were before we * split. NO SEX. She has no disire for sex. She thinks I should be ok with * that and as she says " if you truly loved me, you would support me and show * how much you love me". We have had sex 1 time in the last 4 months and she * laid there like she was dead and couldn’t wait for me to get off. * * I am getting so angry at her. I feel like a fool because I new she would do * this again. Am I wrong? I think I deserve a partner who likes sex at least * half as much as I do. I am currently reading a book about thyroid (a little hormonal gland in our bodies). One of the points that it makes is that when thyroid is not producing enough thyroid hormones, the person becomes lazy and disinterested in sex, sleeps a lot etc. weight gains and so on. This happens to women extremely frequently. like one in 10 women or so is affected. You may want to get her to a endocrinologist before divorcing. I mean, maybe there is nothing wrong with her and she is just a lazy unloving person. In which case you may have a good case for a divorce. But perhaps, she has a medical condition which is treatable. igor * Some background on me: I am always taking care of our kids, I get them up * for school, I get their breakfast, I make their lunch, I take them to * school, I help them with their homework, I fold all of the laundry, I do the * ironing, and it just goes on and on…… I also take care of myself, work * out, run, good job, etc…. * * I really wish she would just leave. I don’t need her. She is such a * beautiful girl, what a waste….. * * your thoughts…please!!!!! * * —

Do your algebra homework at http://www.algebra.com Solve: x^2+4x+3=0 Plot: y=3*sin(x^2) Ask Questions Word Problems http://www.algebra.com

Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Group, My wife and I seperated for a year. She begged me to come back, I mean begged me. Now after 8 months, things are the same way they were before we split. NO SEX. She has no disire for sex. She thinks I should be ok with that and as she says " if you truly loved me, you would support me and show how much you love me". We have had sex 1 time in the last 4 months and she laid there like she was dead and couldn’t wait for me to get off. I am getting so angry at her. I feel like a fool because I new she would do this again. Am I wrong? I think I deserve a partner who likes sex at least half as much as I do. Some background on me: I am always taking care of our kids, I get them up for school, I get their breakfast, I make their lunch, I take them to school, I help them with their homework, I fold all of the laundry, I do the ironing, and it just goes on and on…… I also take care of myself, work out, run, good job, etc…. I really wish she would just leave. I don’t need her. She is such a beautiful girl, what a waste….. your thoughts…please!!!!!

Response:

You know what confuses me? It seems like there are so many excuses for not having sex. Depression, medicines, health problems, moods, ects. What ever happened to wanting sex for the intimacy involved. You would think that women (and men) who didn’t have any desire for orgasm or sex would still want to be emotionally fullfilled by having sex with there spouse. I just don’t get it. momalot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – * Hi Group, * * My wife and I seperated for a year. She begged me to come back, I mean * begged me. Now after 8 months, things are the same way they were before we * split. NO SEX. She has no disire for sex. She thinks I should be ok with * that and as she says " if you truly loved me, you would support me and show * how much you love me". We have had sex 1 time in the last 4 months and she * laid there like she was dead and couldn’t wait for me to get off. * * I am getting so angry at her. I feel like a fool because I new she would do * this again. Am I wrong? I think I deserve a partner who likes sex at least * half as much as I do. I am currently reading a book about thyroid (a little hormonal gland in our bodies). One of the points that it makes is that when thyroid is not producing enough thyroid hormones, the person becomes lazy and disinterested in sex, sleeps a lot etc. weight gains and so on. This happens to women extremely frequently. like one in 10 women or so is affected. You may want to get her to a endocrinologist before divorcing. I mean, maybe there is nothing wrong with her and she is just a lazy unloving person. In which case you may have a good case for a divorce. But perhaps, she has a medical condition which is treatable. igor * Some background on me: I am always taking care of our kids, I get them up * for school, I get their breakfast, I make their lunch, I take them to * school, I help them with their homework, I fold all of the laundry, I do the * ironing, and it just goes on and on…… I also take care of myself, work * out, run, good job, etc…. * * I really wish she would just leave. I don’t need her. She is such a * beautiful girl, what a waste….. * * your thoughts…please!!!!! * * — Do your algebra homework at http://www.algebra.com Solve: x^2+4x+3=0 Plot: y=3*sin(x^2) Ask Questions Word Problems http://www.algebra.com

Response:

Category Categories: Thyroid Solution | No Comments »

Treat Thyroid – eliminate apnea

Question:

You were lucky Stuart, My nephew had surgery for his supposedly sleep apnea, then found out he didn’t have it, he had thyroid problems and turned around and had to have surgery on his thyroid. Sharon Stuart Harris <stuarthar…@home.com

wrote in message

news:39581766.6127BB5D@home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’ve posted several times on this subject, but I finally made it to an endocrinologist after a three month wait and he confirmed that it’s not uncommon to see apnea get better or be "cured" when thyroid problems are treated. He said that he didn’t understand the relationship and you can’t try to treat the apnea, but that effective treatment of a thyroid problem can eliminate sleep apnea – especially if they started at or near the same time. I just knew that I was really tired . . . first I found out that I had apnea and three months later I found out that I had mild hypothyroidism. As soon as I started taking thyroid hormones my apnea started getting better. So . . . If you’re still tired after you start CPAP have your thyroid checked! NOT ONE DOCTOR SUGGESTED THIS TO ME!!! – and until the endocrinologist no one was even aware of the potential link . . . .ahhhhh! Good luck, Stuart

Response:

Two separate conditions. But if you have both, you will be tired. I have had it checked and asked my doctor if I was alright and he said okay. But if a person is tired, they do need to make sure they know their symptoms. Did you have the fingernail problem? There are others associated with thyroid. I was reading a article about it the other day. People can have more than one problem and not realize it. Stuart Harris <stuarthar…@home.com

wrote in message

news:39581766.6127BB5D@home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’ve posted several times on this subject, but I finally made it to an endocrinologist after a three month wait and he confirmed that it’s not uncommon to see apnea get better or be "cured" when thyroid problems are treated. He said that he didn’t understand the relationship and you can’t try to treat the apnea, but that effective treatment of a thyroid problem can eliminate sleep apnea – especially if they started at or near the same time. I just knew that I was really tired . . . first I found out that I had apnea and three months later I found out that I had mild hypothyroidism. As soon as I started taking thyroid hormones my apnea started getting better. So . . . If you’re still tired after you start CPAP have your thyroid checked! NOT ONE DOCTOR SUGGESTED THIS TO ME!!! – and until the endocrinologist no one was even aware of the potential link . . . .ahhhhh! Good luck, Stuart

Response:

Stuart wrote:

If you’re still tired after you start CPAP have your thyroid checked!

That is what happened to me. I was approaching my 1 year CPAP anniversary and I felt awful. I was taking 1-3 hour naps every afternoon and sleeping through the night but I couldn’t shake the daytime fatigue. My doctor checked by thyroid and low and behold my medication had to be increased from 0.05 to 0.075

As soon as I started taking thyroid hormones my apnea started getting better.

I don’t know which got better all I know is that I feel GREAT My advice would be when in doubt get your thyroid checked. Pam

Response:

Glad to see these messages! I was Dx with hypo-thyd. and adrenal insufficiency last Nov and then found out last month I have apnea! Doing great on the cpap but still have some "tiredness"! Appreciate everybodys’ input! ~~Linda~~

Response:

(posted and e-mailed) Hi Stuart – Were you the one who said that some people have a low thyroid problem even though they test within the normal range? My doctor has run several thyroid tests on me over the years because it could explain some of my symptoms, but he said that all of my tests came back within the normal range so he says that must not be the problem. I don’t recall the specific tests (I think there are different tests) or any of the numbers. If a person who tests normal is in fact hypothyroid, how is that determined? Thanks for any info that you can share. Kent Taylor – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stuart Harris wrote in message <39581766.6127B…@home.com

… I’ve posted several times on this subject, but I finally made it to an endocrinologist after a three month wait and he confirmed that it’s not uncommon to see apnea get better or be "cured" when thyroid problems are treated. He said that he didn’t understand the relationship and you can’t try to treat the apnea, but that effective treatment of a thyroid problem can eliminate sleep apnea – especially if they started at or near the same time. I just knew that I was really tired . . . first I found out that I had apnea and three months later I found out that I had mild hypothyroidism. As soon as I started taking thyroid hormones my apnea started getting better. So . . . If you’re still tired after you start CPAP have your thyroid checked! NOT ONE DOCTOR SUGGESTED THIS TO ME!!! – and until the endocrinologist no one was even aware of the potential link . . . .ahhhhh! Good luck, Stuart

Response:

ngo" <email…@stny.rr.com

wrote: (posted and e-mailed) Hi Stuart – Were you the one who said that some people have a low thyroid

problem even though they test within

the normal range? My doctor has run several thyroid tests on

me over the years because it could

explain some of my symptoms, but he said that all of my tests

came back within the normal range so

he says that must not be the problem. I don’t recall the

specific tests (I think there are

different tests) or any of the numbers. If a person who tests normal is in fact hypothyroid, how is

that determined?

Thanks for any info that you can share. Kent Taylor

Hi Kent While I was looking into the thyroid angle I found helpful: http//:thyroid.about.com and alt.support.thyroid. If your lab tests are in the low normal range but you think you have hypothyroid symptoms, what you do is try some thyroid supplement and see if you feel better. I just did and it didn’t make me feel better, but it didn’t hurt me either, just made me a little uncomfortable until I stopped. Check out these websites and others. I do believe the thryoid community is at least as large as the sleep apnea community. Gary Walseth ———————————————————– Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Kent, Yes that was me, or at least I was one of the people saying that. I went to the ENT that had taken out half of my Thyroid, complaining of fatigue and he checked my T3/T4 which were in the low normal range and said that it couldn’t be my thyroid, of course all he told me was that everything was fine – He didn’t even check my TSH level. If you look on alt.support.thyroid there’s lots of posting about people that test normal but are still hypothyroid. The Thyroid solution by Dr. Arem talks extensively about this and says that even though a TSH level of up to 5.5 (and sometimes 6.2) is considered normal, many people can be hypothyroid if their TSH is over 2 and should be treated. Dr. Domminse says it doesn’t matter what your TSH is at all, if you’re T3/T4 are in the lower half of the normal range you may be hypothyroid and benefit from treatment. Take a look at: http://www.galaxymall.com/health/Nutrnl_Mtblc/report1a.html After I was Dx’d with sleep apnea I went to my GP and asked to have my thyroid tested. My TSH came back 6.5 and they said that I was borderline and that treatment was very optional. I went ahead and it’s already like night and day. . . It’s been six months and I’m still getting the dose right (my GP wasn’t willing to be aggressive), but I’ve found a doctor that’s willing to work with me and I suspect that I’ll be even better soon. He’s added Cytomel (T3) to the mix and it’s making a huge difference. The new doctor has been at it for a long time and says that he’s seen many cases where treating hypothyroidism clears up apnea, especially if they both started at about the same time, so that’s good news as well. Stuart – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mongo wrote:

(posted and e-mailed) Hi Stuart – Were you the one who said that some people have a low thyroid problem even though they test within the normal range? My doctor has run several thyroid tests on me over the years because it could explain some of my symptoms, but he said that all of my tests came back within the normal range so he says that must not be the problem. I don’t recall the specific tests (I think there are different tests) or any of the numbers. If a person who tests normal is in fact hypothyroid, how is that determined? Thanks for any info that you can share. Kent Taylor Stuart Harris wrote in message <39581766.6127B…@home.com… I’ve posted several times on this subject, but I finally made it to an endocrinologist after a three month wait and he confirmed that it’s not uncommon to see apnea get better or be "cured" when thyroid problems are treated. He said that he didn’t understand the relationship and you can’t try to treat the apnea, but that effective treatment of a thyroid problem can eliminate sleep apnea – especially if they started at or near the same time. I just knew that I was really tired . . . first I found out that I had apnea and three months later I found out that I had mild hypothyroidism. As soon as I started taking thyroid hormones my apnea started getting better. So . . . If you’re still tired after you start CPAP have your thyroid checked! NOT ONE DOCTOR SUGGESTED THIS TO ME!!! – and until the endocrinologist no one was even aware of the potential link . . . .ahhhhh! Good luck, Stuart

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stuart Harris wrote:

Kent, Yes that was me, or at least I was one of the people saying that. I went to the ENT that had taken out half of my Thyroid, complaining of fatigue and he checked my T3/T4 which were in the low normal range and said that it couldn’t be my thyroid, of course all he told me was that everything was fine – He didn’t even check my TSH level. If you look on alt.support.thyroid there’s lots of posting about people that test normal but are still hypothyroid. The Thyroid solution by Dr. Arem talks extensively about this and says that even though a TSH level of up to 5.5 (and sometimes 6.2) is considered normal, many people can be hypothyroid if their TSH is over 2 and should be treated. Dr. Domminse says it doesn’t matter what your TSH is at all, if you’re T3/T4 are in the lower half of the normal range you may be hypothyroid and benefit from treatment. Take a look at: http://www.galaxymall.com/health/Nutrnl_Mtblc/report1a.html After I was Dx’d with sleep apnea I went to my GP and asked to have my thyroid tested. My TSH came back 6.5 and they said that I was borderline and that treatment was very optional. I went ahead and it’s already like night and day. . . It’s been six months and I’m still getting the dose right (my GP wasn’t willing to be aggressive), but I’ve found a doctor that’s willing to work with me and I suspect that I’ll be even better soon. He’s added Cytomel (T3) to the mix and it’s making a huge difference. The new doctor has been at it for a long time and says that he’s seen many cases where treating hypothyroidism clears up apnea, especially if they both started at about the same time, so that’s good news as well. Stuart

I realize I’m coming into this thread rather late, but I have a question. I’m one of those people who have classic hypothyroid symptoms, but have a TSH below 2. The last few doctors I’ve had have never been willing to even talk about it, because the TSH is low, so I must be OK. In the HMO world, you have to be referred to a specialist, by a GP, to get just about anything done. What type of specialist would I want to be referred to for potential thyroid problems. Thanks, David Chamberlain

Response:

Endocrinologist – a specialist of the endocrine system. My wife has had a long-time thyroid problem. She gets her T3 T4 and TSH all checked, and even though she is in the ‘high’ side of normal while on meds, she doesn’t let anyone change the level she is on. She had a doc do that to her once and it took months to recover. Perhaps there is something else wrong ?? Anyway an Endocrinologist is the appropriate specialist.. You might think about asking your doc at the HMO some pointed questions such as "so with my symptoms you are telling me that there is absolutly no way there could possibly be anything wrong with my thyroid ?". and "So if my thyroid is not the problem, what is the problem, because clinically I have all these symptoms ?" Questions like that may change their mind about refusing a referral to a specialist… Good luck. Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -David Chamberlain wrote:

Stuart Harris wrote: Kent, Yes that was me, or at least I was one of the people saying that. I went to the ENT that had taken out half of my Thyroid, complaining of fatigue and he checked my T3/T4 which were in the low normal range and said that it couldn’t be my thyroid, of course all he told me was that everything was fine – He didn’t even check my TSH level. If you look on alt.support.thyroid there’s lots of posting about people that test normal but are still hypothyroid. The Thyroid solution by Dr. Arem talks extensively about this and says that even though a TSH level of up to 5.5 (and sometimes 6.2) is considered normal, many people can be hypothyroid if their TSH is over 2 and should be treated. Dr. Domminse says it doesn’t matter what your TSH is at all, if you’re T3/T4 are in the lower half of the normal range you may be hypothyroid and benefit from treatment. Take a look at: http://www.galaxymall.com/health/Nutrnl_Mtblc/report1a.html After I was Dx’d with sleep apnea I went to my GP and asked to have my thyroid tested. My TSH came back 6.5 and they said that I was borderline and that treatment was very optional. I went ahead and it’s already like night and day. . . It’s been six months and I’m still getting the dose right (my GP wasn’t willing to be aggressive), but I’ve found a doctor that’s willing to work with me and I suspect that I’ll be even better soon. He’s added Cytomel (T3) to the mix and it’s making a huge difference. The new doctor has been at it for a long time and says that he’s seen many cases where treating hypothyroidism clears up apnea, especially if they both started at about the same time, so that’s good news as well. Stuart I realize I’m coming into this thread rather late, but I have a question. I’m one of those people who have classic hypothyroid symptoms, but have a TSH below 2. The last few doctors I’ve had have never been willing to even talk about it, because the TSH is low, so I must be OK. In the HMO world, you have to be referred to a specialist, by a GP, to get just about anything done. What type of specialist would I want to be referred to for potential thyroid problems. Thanks, David Chamberlain

Response:

David, Take a look at this: http://thyroid.about.com/health/thyroid/library/weekly/aa092299.htm regards, Stuart – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -David Chamberlain wrote:

Stuart Harris wrote: Kent, Yes that was me, or at least I was one of the people saying that. I went to the ENT that had taken out half of my Thyroid, complaining of fatigue and he checked my T3/T4 which were in the low normal range and said that it couldn’t be my thyroid, of course all he told me was that everything was fine – He didn’t even check my TSH level. If you look on alt.support.thyroid there’s lots of posting about people that test normal but are still hypothyroid. The Thyroid solution by Dr. Arem talks extensively about this and says that even though a TSH level of up to 5.5 (and sometimes 6.2) is considered normal, many people can be hypothyroid if their TSH is over 2 and should be treated. Dr. Domminse says it doesn’t matter what your TSH is at all, if you’re T3/T4 are in the lower half of the normal range you may be hypothyroid and benefit from treatment. Take a look at: http://www.galaxymall.com/health/Nutrnl_Mtblc/report1a.html After I was Dx’d with sleep apnea I went to my GP and asked to have my thyroid tested. My TSH came back 6.5 and they said that I was borderline and that treatment was very optional. I went ahead and it’s already like night and day. . . It’s been six months and I’m still getting the dose right (my GP wasn’t willing to be aggressive), but I’ve found a doctor that’s willing to work with me and I suspect that I’ll be even better soon. He’s added Cytomel (T3) to the mix and it’s making a huge difference. The new doctor has been at it for a long time and says that he’s seen many cases where treating hypothyroidism clears up apnea, especially if they both started at about the same time, so that’s good news as well. Stuart I realize I’m coming into this thread rather late, but I have a question. I’m one of those people who have classic hypothyroid symptoms, but have a TSH below 2. The last few doctors I’ve had have never been willing to even talk about it, because the TSH is low, so I must be OK. In the HMO world, you have to be referred to a specialist, by a GP, to get just about anything done. What type of specialist would I want to be referred to for potential thyroid problems. Thanks, David Chamberlain

Response:

David, In addition to TSH you need to have your free T3/T4 tested. Many people need to have these in the upper half of the normal range in order to feel better. TSH is an indicator of how hard your body is pushing the thyroid gland to make T3 and T4. It’s the free T3 and T4 that actually determines how you feel. An elevated TSH is the cheapest test, but you won’t know for sure until you look at the other two. Many Doctors will resist testing and treatment based on a normal TSH, but if you look over on Alt.support.thyroid you’ll find a lot of people who were told that their tests showed they didn’t have a problem when they were really hypothyroid. They pushed until they got treatment and are much better off for the most part. You have to take ownership of this and tell the doctor what you want him to do, otherwise you’ll suffer for years until you get sick enough to "prove" that you really were hypothyroid. Good luck, Stuart – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -David Chamberlain wrote:

Stuart Harris wrote: Kent, Yes that was me, or at least I was one of the people saying that. I went to the ENT that had taken out half of my Thyroid, complaining of fatigue and he checked my T3/T4 which were in the low normal range and said that it couldn’t be my thyroid, of course all he told me was that everything was fine – He didn’t even check my TSH level. If you look on alt.support.thyroid there’s lots of posting about people that test normal but are still hypothyroid. The Thyroid solution by Dr. Arem talks extensively about this and says that even though a TSH level of up to 5.5 (and sometimes 6.2) is considered normal, many people can be hypothyroid if their TSH is over 2 and should be treated. Dr. Domminse says it doesn’t matter what your TSH is at all, if you’re T3/T4 are in the lower half of the normal range you may be hypothyroid and benefit from treatment. Take a look at: http://www.galaxymall.com/health/Nutrnl_Mtblc/report1a.html After I was Dx’d with sleep apnea I went to my GP and asked to have my thyroid tested. My TSH came back 6.5 and they said that I was borderline and that treatment was very optional. I went ahead and it’s already like night and day. . . It’s been six months and I’m still getting the dose right (my GP wasn’t willing to be aggressive), but I’ve found a doctor that’s willing to work with me and I suspect that I’ll be even better soon. He’s added Cytomel (T3) to the mix and it’s making a huge difference. The new doctor has been at it for a long time and says that he’s seen many cases where treating hypothyroidism clears up apnea, especially if they both started at about the same time, so that’s good news as well. Stuart I realize I’m coming into this thread rather late, but I have a question. I’m one of those people who have classic hypothyroid symptoms, but have a TSH below 2. The last few doctors I’ve had have never been willing to even talk about it, because the TSH is low, so I must be OK. In the HMO world, you have to be referred to a specialist, by a GP, to get just about anything done. What type of specialist would I want to be referred to for potential thyroid problems. Thanks, David Chamberlain

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stuart Harris <stuarthar…@home.com

wrote: I’ve posted several times on this subject, but I finally made

it to an

endocrinologist after a three month wait and he confirmed that

it’s not

uncommon to see apnea get better or be "cured" when thyroid

problems are

treated. He said that he didn’t understand the relationship

and you

can’t try to treat the apnea, but that effective treatment of a

thyroid

problem can eliminate sleep apnea – especially if they started

at or

near the same time. I just knew that I was really tired . . .

first I

found out that I had apnea and three months later I found out

that I had

mild hypothyroidism. As soon as I started taking thyroid

hormones my

apnea started getting better. So . . . If you’re still tired

after you

start CPAP have your thyroid checked! NOT ONE DOCTOR SUGGESTED

THIS TO

ME!!! – and until the endocrinologist no one was even aware of

the

potential link . . . .ahhhhh! Good luck, Stuart

Hi Stuart Thank you for continuing to post on this topic. I have noticed your previous posts and think of you as the "thyroid guy." (I think of myself as the "elastic chinstrap guy.") I had my thyroid checked after reading your posts. T4 was "low normal" and TSH under 2 so really I looked fine. But I am known to be hypopituitary because of some other endocrine problems, and there is a lot of talk on the thyroid newsgroups about symptomatic rather than clinical treatment, so I talked my HMO endo into giving me some 75 mg T4 just to see. No good! Even half a 75mg tablet a day for ten days made me jittery and hyperthyroid-ish. But hey, now I know. Thanks for your input. Gary Walseth Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

I’ve posted several times on this subject, but I finally made it to an endocrinologist after a three month wait and he confirmed that it’s not uncommon to see apnea get better or be "cured" when thyroid problems are treated. He said that he didn’t understand the relationship and you can’t try to treat the apnea, but that effective treatment of a thyroid problem can eliminate sleep apnea – especially if they started at or near the same time. I just knew that I was really tired . . . first I found out that I had apnea and three months later I found out that I had mild hypothyroidism. As soon as I started taking thyroid hormones my apnea started getting better. So . . . If you’re still tired after you start CPAP have your thyroid checked! NOT ONE DOCTOR SUGGESTED THIS TO ME!!! – and until the endocrinologist no one was even aware of the potential link . . . .ahhhhh! Good luck, Stuart

Response:

Category Categories: Thyroid Solution | No Comments »

Diabetes and fatigue

Question:

So how come I feel really tired almost all the time? Is this a common side-effect of the disease? If so, what are the treatments for it?

Czek your potassium level. I had simmilar problem. Two cups of tomato juse a day solved the problem for me. Andrew

Response:

Well, get your thyroid checked. NOT JUST THE TSH. Get TSH, Total T4, Free T4, Total T3 and Free T3. It is thought that the Free T3 most closely correlates to the way you feel. There is evidence of all types of thyroid problems in people with diabetes, including T4 to T3 conversion problems. Thyroid problems (hypo) are very under recognized and very undertreated by endos. There is a lot more information on this in alt.support.thyroid. I can’t emphasize enought the importance of the patient being pro-active in this. This often can mean switching doctors, etc., etc. Not saying that you are hypothyroid mind you, but it would not surprise me a bit, even if your doctor checked and said you were "normal." The book most everyone in the thyroid newsgroup recommends for is by Ridha Arem, MD. (The Thyroid Solution I think the name is). BL My Bubba signature line– see Dr. Nambudripad’s allergy elimination technique http://www.naet.com Our family had great results with this and now it shows up in 100% of my posts

Response:

This is my first posting to the group; forgive me if I am covering old ground. I’m 43, diagnosed with Type II diabetes last August. Mom has been insulin dependent for about as long as I’ve been around and has suffered about all of the problems that I diabetic can suffer. With diet, exercise, weight loss and glyburide (now 10 mg once a day), I’ve brought my glucose levels down into normal range. In general, I feel much better than I have in years. So how come I feel really tired almost all the time? Is this a common side-effect of the disease? If so, what are the treatments for it? Thanks for your help and input. Vic Doucette/Detroit

vcard.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is my first posting to the group; forgive me if I am covering old ground. I’m 43, diagnosed with Type II diabetes last August. Mom has been insulin dependent for about as long as I’ve been around and has suffered about all of the problems that I diabetic can suffer. With diet, exercise, weight loss and glyburide (now 10 mg once a day), I’ve brought my glucose levels down into normal range. In general, I feel much better than I have in years. So how come I feel really tired almost all the time? Is this a common side-effect of the disease? If so, what are the treatments for it? Thanks for your help and input. Vic Doucette/Detroit

It might be something else. At least theoretically, if you’re bgs are in a normal range, you’re eating right and exercising regularly, there’s not necessarily a diabetes-related reason that you should feel badly. You could be depressed, or you might not be getting enough sleep, or you might be suffering from a couple of thousand possible OTHER problems. Go to a doctor and have it checked it if you’re concerned. Attributing every ache and pain to diabetes can be dangerous if it prevents you from seeking diagnosis of a problem. Wendy — The essence of science is restraint. Humility in the face of overwhelming complexity. A willingness to say "I don’t yet know." – Chet Raymo

Response:

Category Categories: Thyroid Solution | No Comments »

Suicidal thoughts: Have you had them???

Question:

I hesitated posting this. It is disturbing and not to be taken lightly; but there have been times lately when I’ve concluded that things are hopeless, that I’ll not find good sleep. I had hoped that CPAP would effect a significant improvement in my sleep quality, but it has not. I entertain the possibility that things are happening that I had not forseen. For example: Though CPAP may prevent obstructive events, it may also compromise the depth of sleep that is attained. The presence of the mask, the artificial effect of the pressure on the body. I wonder if for some folks it may be a zero sum game. OSA is avoided, but other CPAP artifacts prevent the necessary deep sleep. Sometimes I feel panic stricken, like I’ll never achieve even semi-regular quality sleep. I don’t know how much longer I can go on like this. I function at a minimal level. Yes, I know that similar sentiments have been expressed here before. Sometimes it just seems that I’m looking into a black, unsolvable maw. I’m not on the verge of putting a gun in my mouth, but there are times when it seems like no solution exists. Sam

Response:

Slightly. If you are sleeping alright with cpap, there are no other OSA effects. But it does sound like you may have depression and there is treatment for that. I would suggest that you look into this, it is important. I have taken some antipressants and they did help with my mood, but since my sleep is a problem I had to quit taking them in order to try something that conflicts. Sam <Brandyw…@writeme.com

wrote in message

news:3996DE67EF7811AC.97604146ACB75531.F81F851E13095287@lp.airnews.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I hesitated posting this. It is disturbing and not to be taken lightly; but there have been times lately when I’ve concluded that things are hopeless, that I’ll not find good sleep. I had hoped that CPAP would effect a significant improvement in my sleep quality, but it has not. I entertain the possibility that things are happening that I had not forseen. For example: Though CPAP may prevent obstructive events, it may also compromise the depth of sleep that is attained. The presence of the mask, the artificial effect of the pressure on the body. I wonder if for some folks it may be a zero sum game. OSA is avoided, but other CPAP artifacts prevent the necessary deep sleep. Sometimes I feel panic stricken, like I’ll never achieve even semi-regular quality sleep. I don’t know how much longer I can go on like this. I function at a minimal level. Yes, I know that similar sentiments have been expressed here before. Sometimes it just seems that I’m looking into a black, unsolvable maw. I’m not on the verge of putting a gun in my mouth, but there are times when it seems like no solution exists. Sam

Response:

The treatments for depression mostly do not work. Been there, done that. Some of the chemical treatments work for some folks. Alas, too many of the shrinks just want to yammer about your alleged sexual fantasies with a parent. By and large shrinks take your money and do not help you. regards, eric pearson db2e…@nospammindspring.com On Thu, 24 Feb 2000 05:03:49 GMT, "Patrick Richards" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<patrickricha…@home.com

wrote: Slightly. If you are sleeping alright with cpap, there are no other OSA effects. But it does sound like you may have depression and there is treatment for that. I would suggest that you look into this, it is important. I have taken some antipressants and they did help with my mood, but since my sleep is a problem I had to quit taking them in order to try something that conflicts. Sam <Brandyw…@writeme.com wrote in message news:3996DE67EF7811AC.97604146ACB75531.F81F851E13095287@lp.airnews.net… I hesitated posting this. It is disturbing and not to be taken lightly; but there have been times lately when I’ve concluded that things are hopeless, that I’ll not find good sleep. I had hoped that CPAP would effect a significant improvement in my sleep quality, but it has not. I entertain the possibility that things are happening that I had not forseen. For example: Though CPAP may prevent obstructive events, it may also compromise the depth of sleep that is attained. The presence of the mask, the artificial effect of the pressure on the body. I wonder if for some folks it may be a zero sum game. OSA is avoided, but other CPAP artifacts prevent the necessary deep sleep. Sometimes I feel panic stricken, like I’ll never achieve even semi-regular quality sleep. I don’t know how much longer I can go on like this. I function at a minimal level. Yes, I know that similar sentiments have been expressed here before. Sometimes it just seems that I’m looking into a black, unsolvable maw. I’m not on the verge of putting a gun in my mouth, but there are times when it seems like no solution exists. Sam

Response:

On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 23:46:57 +0000, Sam <Brandyw…@writeme.com

wrote:

I had hoped that CPAP would effect a significant improvement in my sleep quality, but it has not. I entertain the possibility that things are happening that I had not forseen. For example: Though CPAP may prevent obstructive events, it may also compromise the depth of sleep that is attained. The presence of the mask, the artificial effect of the pressure on the body. I wonder if for some folks it may be a zero sum game. OSA is avoided, but other CPAP artifacts prevent the necessary deep sleep.

That’s sure not the results that I was getting in the sleep lab (and that was with all the other junk on….. wow, I only have to use the mask when I go home!).

Sometimes I feel panic stricken, like I’ll never achieve even semi-regular quality sleep. I don’t know how much longer I can go on like this. I function at a minimal level.

OSA patients can have other comorbities. Including clinical depression.

Response:

On Thu, 24 Feb 2000 00:14:39 -0500, eric pearson <db2e…@nospammindspring.com

wrote: The treatments for depression mostly do not work. Been there, done that. Some of the chemical treatments work for some folks.

Any given AD will work for about half the patients. It sometimes requires a good bit of fiddling to find exactly what AD. It seems every time they come out with a new class of meds, the percentage that don’t get help from meds decrease.

Alas, too many of the shrinks just want to yammer about your alleged sexual fantasies with a parent.

Never a topic in my experience.

By and large shrinks take your money and do not help you.

My experience was quite different in both cases: both school phobia when I was a kid and clinical depression as an adult.

Response:

Sam, Suicidal thoughts are never something to be dealt with lightly, or ignored. To the above question, Yes, but that was a very long time ago and a different set of circumstances, and I was very young at the time. But I did learn a skill to deal with things better. First off, not to lump different problems together and try to find one solution to solve all of them at the same time. Second, some things need time to work correctly. You seem to be dealing with several problems here, some of which are xPAP related but different problems entirely, needing different ways to deal with them. 1. Compliance. you say you are not 100% compliant with the xPAP, this could be contributing to the lousy feelings you have, and may also prolong the time you spend adjusting to it to feel better. Depression is a symptom of OSA, but not all depression is caused by OSA. You have got to use it all the time, even if you are just taking a short nap. 2. Ripping off the mask while you sleep. Lots of people on this NG have ripped the mask off their face at night especially while adjusting to it. Some have taken anti-anxiety drugs, some just tough it out, eventually your body and mind do adjust to having the weird thing attached to your face. If you wake up, put it back on. Over time, and it may take a few months, you should find that you rip the mask off less and less at night, until you stop ripping it off. 3. Stress. Not sleeping well affects lots of areas of life, job performance, memory and concentration, ability to perform the normal things we do every day like running errands. Being told you have an illness most people have never heard of or thought much about and trying to understand what it has done to you can be annoying. Having to put on something that looks like an old- fashioned bonnet hair dryer and works like SCUBA equipment every night is like admitting that you forgot your own name. It’s frustrating, angering, stressful, sounds a lot like a developing depression doesn’t it. And it could be one developing. 4. You could have another illness hiding behind the OSA. It could be anything, nasal allergies, food allergies (irritable bowel syndrome is a symptom of this), blood pressure problems, thyroid problems, insulin related problems, Fibromyalgia, Restless leg syndrome… any one or more of which could be adding to the problems you are having sleeping. So, how can you deal with all this, from experience, my own and others who have written this news group I have learned the following: 1. I can’t say this enough, You have got to wear the mask every time you lay down. Besides the emotional and hormonal effects, OSA can lead to an enlarged heart and high blood pressure -and more medications to treat them. It can take weeks and months for the effects of sleep deprivation to wear off, and unfortunately you might be stuck with some of them for the rest of your life. Sometimes you have to accept the facts as they are, you may not like them, but you have to learn to live with them. 2. Give it time, a lot of time. Some people take to this quickly and others have to try many, many masks before they find one they are the most comfortable with. As you get better sleep your body will learn, if given enough time to adjust, that the mask is it’s friend. It might take weeks it might take months, we are all different that way. 3. You may have a real depression or anxiety disease on top of the OSA. You may not. But the only way you can get effective help for it is to see someone who deals with this professionally. I suggest you interview the one you decide to see and explain about the OSA and some of the symptoms you have and find out if the doctor. Some people have great results on drug therapy from a psychiatrist and some don’t. I had great results. Others have not. Some people benefit from "talk" therapy with a psychologist, and some don’t. It did help me some. 4. Talk to your doctor ….A lot. When was the last time you had a thorough blood screening for liver function, diabetes, hypoglycemia cholesterol, HDL, LDL, Thyroid, etc. Maybe it is time to do one again. Keep a food log and see if your worse nights happen if you specific items could be food could be a spice added to the food that sets off the bad night. Most news casts now mention pollen levels, try to keep a log of that as well and see if high pollen counts set you off. Or go get tested for allergies, you might be surprised to learn that you have a mild food allergy to something you love to eat. Like I said before, there is no quick fix here, no single solution to all the problems. Some of it will be trial and more trial to see what works and what doesn’t. It will take time, several months for some things to show a definite pattern that you can pin-point and see what is really happening with it and then find a fix to the problem. It is possible, but it needs you to take that one step every day to get closer to a working result. Some days you will wonder if you are getting any closer to the goal because you can’t see any improvement, and then one day you wake up and realize that a week has gone by and they have all been good days. You will still have bad days, everyone does, but you will begin to have fewer than you have now. It just takes today, and tomorrow, and the day after… I hope something here helps you, Keep us posted. Steffeny

Response:

I use to agree with you, but I am seeing one now, but he only prescribes drugs, which my sleep doctor wants to try and I am also seeing a psychotherapist and I must admit they both stick to business. But I have had many previous therapists etc. which amounted to nothing. eric pearson <db2e…@nospammindspring.com

wrote in message

news:gbf9bsc8pdv9ong546jeiuqnig1e813rfu@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

The treatments for depression mostly do not work. Been there, done that. Some of the chemical treatments work for some folks. Alas, too many of the shrinks just want to yammer about your alleged sexual fantasies with a parent. By and large shrinks take your money and do not help you. regards, eric pearson db2e…@nospammindspring.com On Thu, 24 Feb 2000 05:03:49 GMT, "Patrick Richards" <patrickricha…@home.com wrote: Slightly. If you are sleeping alright with cpap, there are no other OSA effects. But it does sound like you may have depression and there is treatment for that. I would suggest that you look into this, it is important. I have taken some antipressants and they did help with my mood, but since

sleep is a problem I had to quit taking them in order to try something

that > >conflicts. > >Sam <Brandyw…@writeme.com

wrote in message

> >news:3996DE67EF7811AC.97604146ACB75531.F81F851E13095287@lp.airnews.net… > >> I hesitated posting this. It is disturbing and not to be taken > >> lightly; but there have been times lately when I’ve concluded that > >> things are hopeless, that I’ll not find good sleep. > >> I had hoped that CPAP would effect a significant improvement in my > >> sleep quality, but it has not. I entertain the possibility that things > >> are happening that I had not forseen. For example: Though CPAP may > >> prevent obstructive events, it may also compromise the depth of sleep > >> that is attained. The presence of the mask, the artificial effect of > >> the pressure on the body. I wonder if for some folks it may be a zero > >> sum game. OSA is avoided, but other CPAP artifacts prevent the > >> necessary deep sleep. > >> Sometimes I feel panic stricken, like I’ll never achieve even > >> semi-regular quality sleep. I don’t know how much longer I can go on > >> like this. I function at a minimal level. Yes, I know that similar > >> sentiments have been expressed here before. Sometimes it just seems > >> that I’m looking into a black, unsolvable maw. > >> I’m not on the verge of putting a gun in my mouth, but there are times > >> when it seems like no solution exists. > >> Sam

Response:

Sam, It’s been quite a while since you posted this, but I just came across it. You should have your thyroid checked – having low thyroid function can cause both OSA and depression. Even if it’s not the root cause of the apnea it can still cause depression. I found out that I had OSA last November and after doing research asked for a thyroid test and was found to be hypo thyroid in January. It’s only been a few months but I’m off CPAP, my snoring is completely gone, and I enjoy life a lot more than I used to. If your TSH is over 2 you should try medication. Most doctors won’t treat a tsh less than 5.5. Mine was 6.2 and the doctor said it was optional and I went ahead to see if it made a difference. . . . .well it made all the difference in the world and after we got my TSH down under 2 the OSA went away. You need to do some research and know what the numbers mean . . . a great source book is the Thyroid Solution by DR. AREM. Good Luck .. . . Stuart – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sam wrote:

I hesitated posting this. It is disturbing and not to be taken lightly; but there have been times lately when I’ve concluded that things are hopeless, that I’ll not find good sleep. I had hoped that CPAP would effect a significant improvement in my sleep quality, but it has not. I entertain the possibility that things are happening that I had not forseen. For example: Though CPAP may prevent obstructive events, it may also compromise the depth of sleep that is attained. The presence of the mask, the artificial effect of the pressure on the body. I wonder if for some folks it may be a zero sum game. OSA is avoided, but other CPAP artifacts prevent the necessary deep sleep. Sometimes I feel panic stricken, like I’ll never achieve even semi-regular quality sleep. I don’t know how much longer I can go on like this. I function at a minimal level. Yes, I know that similar sentiments have been expressed here before. Sometimes it just seems that I’m looking into a black, unsolvable maw. I’m not on the verge of putting a gun in my mouth, but there are times when it seems like no solution exists. Sam

Response:

Category Categories: Thyroid Solution | No Comments »

Low thyroid — I meant TSH!

Question:

(John Badanes) writes:

If infinitesimal amounts of thyroid hormone are given to those who are hyperthyroid, are humongous amounts of drug given to people who are hypothyroid? Or do you use a less dilute thyroid solution, which is a weaker medicine to ’supplement’ the deficiency.. since diluting it more would only exacerbate the hypothyroid condition? To answer you question requires a brief discussion of homeopathic prescribing. Classical homeopathic prescribing gives most weight to the rare and peculiar symptoms the patient is experiencing and least weight to the common symptoms. That is, the homeopathic doctor looks for those symptoms that the patient experiences that differentiate the patient’s case from other patients and prescribes on those symptoms. Thus, there is no standard homeopathic treatment for most diseases, except physical injuries, which usually only present common symptoms. This is the key difference between homeopathy and isopathy, such as the prescription of potentized sheep thyroid for hyperthyroid. Isopathy prescribes on the basis of the common symptoms of the disease, which classical homeopathy treats as relatively unimportant. Still, a fair amount of isopathic use of homeopathic medicines goes on. Just this past weekend I saw some homeopathic medicine in my health food store labelled "Thyroid Support" with indications for the symptoms associated with hyperthyroidism. —

Response:

I guess a homeopathic amount of dessicated thyroid would be useful for treating hyperthyroidism. Actually, you guess correctly. Homeopathic dilutions of thyroid are used to treat patients who show symptoms similar to those caused by hyperthyroidism. If infinitesimal amounts of thyroid hormone are given to those who are hyperthyroid, are humongous amounts of drug given to people who are hypothyroid? Or do you use a less dilute thyroid solution, which is a weaker medicine to ’supplement’ the deficiency.. since diluting it more would only exacerbate the hypothyroid condition? JB.

Response:

: No, no, you’re wrong. Thyroxine is a simple, unpatentable chemical. : Therefore, it isn’t sold at all. because drug firms wouldn’t be interested : in selling it. You can’t buy it; obviously, you’ve been misled : into thinking you can buy it on prescription. In fact, you can’t : buy dessicated thyroid either, because, being a _natural_ substance, : available in excess from the slaughterhouse industry, drug firms : would obviously have no incentive to sell it. It’s still available in some states under the name Proloid. For Years, pharmacists have been telling me that it’s off the market. Yet until last year I was getting recent batches at pharmacies which actually Tried to obtain it for me. Manufacturing dates in the Same Year. Now that I’ve moved to Phoenix, of course pharmacists assert that not only is it not available, but it hasn’t been for years. I now do the levo thing like everyone else, and it’s working just fine. I do have a question however: is the concoction sold in some health-food stores in any way similar to Proloid? I get the impression from some posts that it’s a totally different preparation which is in some way unassimilable, as opposed to Proloid which is. Dessicated Thyroid Preparation is the name I’ve seen on labels in HFSs (a few years back). So what’s the diff? Nex Agog in the Palmy Phoenix Light Recreational Foolishness Forever

Response:

I was being sarcastic–the claim that a substance is "unpatentable" is used regularly here to explain why supposedly useful substances are not being sold. l-thyroxine and dessicated thyroid are examples (two of many) which demonstate just what nonsense this argument is. You can still buy dessicated thyroid from any number of drug companies, though its usage is deprecated in favor of T4 (thyroxine). Proloid is actually a purified hog thyroid preparation, thyroglobulin, but it’s exactly equivalent to dessicated thyroid by weight and in its ratio of T4/T3. Note that as I’ve said before, T3 is formed from the deiodination of T4, and near-normal levels of T3 are found in almost all individuals given T4 as thyroid hormone replacement therapy (there are rare conditions in which this conversion is faulty.) T4/T3 mixtures, either the synthetic "liotrix", or as thyroglobulin or dessicated thyroid, actually end up giving the individual too much T3. For those of you who think taking natural dessicated thyroid is somehow "better", you might ask yourself why it’s "natural" to ingest dead pork thyroid gland, and why the peculiar ratio of T4/T3 found in such a preparation has anything whatsoever to do with the ratio of T4/T3 found in a normothyroid human’s blood. Giving T4 alone seems to be optimal for the great majority of candidates for thyroid replacement therapy. I do have a question however: is the concoction sold in some health-food stores in any way similar to Proloid? I get the impression from some posts that it’s a totally different preparation which is in some way unassimilable, as opposed to Proloid which is. Dessicated Thyroid Preparation is the name I’ve seen on labels in HFSs (a few years back). So what’s the diff? Nex

Either these "health-food" manufacturers are lying, or they’re breaking the law, or the amount of actual dessicated thyroid is so small that it can’t have any physiological effect. Take your pick. I guess a homeopathic amount of dessicated thyroid would be useful for treating hyperthyroidism. — Steve Dyer

Response:

Steve — Thanks for the response. Good eye. I’m not sure, though, how you can be so sure that a drug has no side effects unless you can speak for everyone who’s ever taken it. Just because there are none mentioned in the PDR and your doctor doesn’t think there are doesn’t make it so. I feel quite certain that, even though I’m reporting side effects to my doctor right now, he will tell his next patient that their aren’t any. The side effects of thyroxine stem directly from its physiological actions. If you take too much, you begin to experience side effects which are indistinguishable from hyperthyroidism. The key is what is "too much"? The studies are already complete on this, and I’m not part of a new one, and neither are thousands of other people who haven’t been heard from. Huh? The dosage I am on is not ‘too high’ according to current protocols, Thyroid replacement therapy is individualized, practically by definition. You can’t talk about "current protocols" indicating that a dose is not "too high", because the only criterion is the response of the individual patient. and is in fact only about half what my doctor would like to raise it to in an effort to get TSH to a level he feels comfortable with. The release of TSH is ordinarily an indication that your body thinks it needs more thyroid hormone than it’s getting. It can be a useful metric in measuring the success of replacement therapy, but it’s certainly not the only criterion (clinical response is equally, if not more, important.) If you’re having side effects which indicate that you’re receiving too much thyroid hormone, that isn’t really a "side effect" of thyroxine as much as it is a "side effect" of your treatment regimen. The fact that I AM experiencing side effects which I DON’T have when I’m on this drug, Huh? I didn’t follow this. The side effects you DON’T have but you ARE experiencing when you’re on _what_ drug?? Come again? and that I AM consulting my doctor, who wants to double my dosage, is exactly why I posted this request in the first place. I just think body chemistry is a little more complex and delicate than this approach allows for. I think you’ll have much better results getting a second opinion from an endocrinologist experienced with the treatment of thyroid disorders than from asking a question here in misc.health.alternative. But I don’t want to be argumentative; I do appreciate your responses. I clearly understand that replacement therapy is just that, but also find it difficult to see how the suppression of something one is being treated for not having enough of already can be a real plus as far as features go. Suppression of what? If your thyroid function is working normally, your body stops releasing thyroid hormone when you’ve released enough of it. If you take endogenous thyroid hormone, your body ordinarily stops releasing thyroid hormone when you’ve taken enough of it. This feedback loop is a part of normal functioning–it doesn’t matter how the thyroid hormone gets into the circulation. If there were a way to identify and repair the deficit which caused you to be hypothyroid in the first place, then they’d do that. But there isn’t, which is why thyroid replacement is popular. It’s also extremely effective. I think it’s good to remember that no one really KNOWS how the feedback mechanism between T4 and TSH really works. Current medical protocols are based on a THEORY, which could well be incorrect. There’s an awful amount of research which backs up our understanding of thyroid function. This is not a particularly obscure area of medical knowledge. Even the PDR admits to that, What does an advertising medium have to do with anything? Stop reading the PDR–it’s not a source of useful information, except what the FDA requires to be shipped along with approved drugs, and it certainly would not be unprecedented for current thinking on this to change in the future, thouggh where the incentive for any further research would come from I can’t imagine. Synthroid is a pretty good money-maker for everyone. (The cynic rears her ugly head). No, no, you’re wrong. Thyroxine is a simple, unpatentable chemical. Therefore, it isn’t sold at all. because drug firms wouldn’t be interested in selling it. You can’t buy it; obviously, you’ve been misled into thinking you can buy it on prescription. In fact, you can’t buy dessicated thyroid either, because, being a _natural_ substance, available in excess from the slaughterhouse industry, drug firms would obviously have no incentive to sell it. — Steve Dyer

Response:

Sorry folks. In my last words on this subject, I said that my T4’s had continued to rise while I was on Synthroid, which doesn’t make much sense as a complaint, since that’s what’s supposed to happen. What I meant to say was that my TSH has continued to rise. (Consequence of being able to thoughts faster than words). Sorry Ellie. I think you’re confused again. Adequate levels of circulating thyroid [in your case supplied by the Synthroid] *negatively* impact on the secretion of TSH [thyroid stimulating hormone] from the anterior pituitary. If you had too little or no thyroid hormone, I could see your TSH levels rising as the pituitary attempted to encourage the thyroid gland to release its ‘treasure’. If your levels of TSH are still rising, even with increased amounts of circulating Synthroid, then your pituitary is not functioning normally and you should have this checked by an endocrinologist. The dosage I am on is not ‘too high’ according to current protocols and is in fact only about half what my doctor would like to raise it it to in an effort to get TSH to a level he feels comfortable with. If your doctor wants to give you more Synthroid, it is likely your actual blood levels of thyroid hormone are too low…this is consistent with the increasing TSH levels you report. Dosage is not the only element that determines actual amounts of circulating hormone…for example absorption of Synthroid is variable and can be *increased* by fasting. If on the other hand, you *do* have adequate blood levels of thyroid hormone *and* your TSH is still increasing, we are back to what I said earlier, which is get this checked out. The fact that I AM experiencing side effects which I DON’T have when I’m on this drug, and that I AM consulting my doctor, who wants to double my dosage, is exactly why I posted this request in the first place. ‘Scuse me? I’m not clear. You *don’t* have side-effects when you *do* take the drug but you *do* have side-effects when you *do* take the drug. You’ve lost me, Ellie. I think it’s good to remember that no one really KNOWS how the feedback mechanism between T4 and TSH really works. Current medical protocols are based on a THEORY, which could well be incorrect. What’s so good about it? The relationship I outlined above is well known, repeatable, and uncomplicated. Rather than discuss the philosophical issue of whether "we can *really* ever know anything", I would more aggressively express your concerns to one or two endocrinologists and read a bit about thyroid hormone and the thyroid gland before your next appointment. JB.

Response:

Sorry folks. In my last words on this subject, I said that my T4’s had continued to rise while I was on Synthroid, which doesn’t make much sense as a complaint, since that’s what’s supposed to happen. What I meant to say was that my TSH has continued to rise. (Consequence of being able to make thoughts faster than words). My apologies for clouding the issue, if there is one. Steve — Thanks for the response. Good eye. I’m not sure, though, how you can be so sure that a drug has no side effects unless you can speak for everyone who’s ever taken it. Just because there are none mentioned in the PDR and your doctor doesn’t think there are doesn’t make it so. I feel quite certain that, even though I’m reporting side effects to my doctor right now, he will tell his next patient that their aren’t any. The studies are already complete on this, and I’m not part of a new one, and neither are thousands of other people who haven’t been heard from. The dosage I am on is not ‘too high’ according to current protocols, and is in fact only about half what my doctor would like to raise it to in an effort to get TSH to a level he feels comfortable with. The fact that I AM experiencing side effects which I DON’T have when I’m on this drug, and that I AM consulting my doctor, who wants to double my dosage, is exactly why I posted this request in the first place. I just think body chemistry is a little more complex and delicate than this approach allows for. But I don’t want to be argumentative; I do appreciate your responses. I clearly understand that replacement therapy is just that, but also find it difficult to see how the suppression of something one is being treated for not having enough of already can be a real plus as far as features go. I think it’s good to remember that no one really KNOWS how the feedback mechanism between T4 and TSH really works. Current medical protocols are based on a THEORY, which could well be incorrect. Even the PDR admits to that, and it certainly would not be unprecedented for current thinking on this to change in the future, thouggh where the incentive for any further research would come from I can’t imagine. Synthroid is a pretty good money-maker for everyone. (The cynic rears her ugly head). Thanks Ellie

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