Question:

Has anybody else here found their headaches reduced by treatment for low thyroid? Mine got significantly better last summer after I began treatment. I attributed it to a course of acupuncture – 12 treatments over six weeks – that I had completed a couple of weeks before. Now I wonder. Both migraine and low thyroid are rampant in my family. My thyroid test was in the low-normal range, and my doctor wouldn’t treat me for it, but I had other symptoms that bothered me (low heart rate, low body temperature and intolerance to cold, inability to lose the weight that I’d gained during years of preventive-med trials, thinning hair and nails, aching joints) and began to treat myself while I was in Spain, where I could buy levothyroxin over the counter. When I got home a few months later, I got a new doctor, complete thyroid test. These results were in the mid-normal range. I feel better, I’m losing weight, and – maybe just coincidentally – I’m still enjoying better than 50% reduction in frequency and severity of migraine. I searched the web for any mention of thyroid in connection with migraine and couldn’t find one (except cautions for certain pain medications for those with impaired thyroid functioning). What about the group here? Any experiences? –Julianne

Response:

Has anybody else here found their headaches reduced by treatment for low thyroid?

Definately!! I was diagnosed six months ago with severe hypothyroidism and I’ve suffered from Classic Migraine for ten years (I’m relatively young too). After starting synthroid I noticed that my headaches were significantly reduced. As my thyroid levels are returning to normal I’m starting to feel so much better. What upsets me most is that for so long I attributed my low thyroid symptoms to migraine. I encourge any of you reading this to have your thyroid checked if you are experiencing hypothyroid symptoms and you have migraine, it’s definatley something to consider.

Response:

Hi Julianne, I should have read down through the messages today before answering – you have a very LONG reply above to one about Depakote. In short, YES – when my thyoid is normal and stable, I feel much better. I am totally reliant on thyroid replacement and so my body is often out of balance and either too high or too low. I had migraines at puberty and again after child #2 was born but never so frequently as the past 10 years with my thyroid problems. I think many of the drugs I have been given may be responsible for my current depression. I also believe the whole depression/migraine disorder was started up again when my thyroid was not treated properly. So, I would think you ARE very much on track by having your thyroid monitored. My husband has recently developed low thyroid and also uses replacement. If his blood levels drop in the low range, he knows right away because he gets aching joints and just does not feel well. He has also had several of the first headaches in his entire life. He honestly never knew what a headache" was!! Take care Julianne! Debbie

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sat, 6 Jul 2002, Bonnie wrote:

"Frankenmel" <franken…@aol.comnospam wrote: Do you,or are you able to…exercise? Sometimes this helps with being tired and out of breath. If you’re even able to walk a small distance,it can help. However,it’s a good idea to have it checked out. There’s that word – exercise!  Actually, that is something I plan on talking to my doctor about because I know I do need to get on some kind of an exercise program.  I used to be able to do much more physically than I can at the moment.  Right now walking up a flight of stairs or doing a few minutes of minor yard work leaves me short of breath and exhausted.  That makes me feel "old" and with my 50th birthday coming up soon I am determined to NOT feel old!

water exercise. not necessarily water aerobics, because i don’t do aerobics either, but stretching and movement in warmish water really helps. i have been doing a "pain management class" through my local clinic, that is really nothing but stretching in water and it’s great. if you don’t have access to a pool, some motels with indoor pools have a plan where you can pay so much a month just to use the pool. hugs, kitten — barbara trumpinski-roberts (smotu) ACES Library  kitt…@uiuc.edu    "The love of a cat is unconditional but always subject to negotiation. You are never in charge." Marge Piercy    "I’m reminded that "love" is a verb – and an active one, at that." Pat ‘jezebel’ Kight             http://members.tripod.com/~barbarakitten/

Response:

I’ve been reading this group for a few days and I must say what a relief it is to find others online that I feel I can relate to.  I will be 50 next month and I am embarrassed to say that I am not sure if I am currently in perimenopause or actually in menopause.  I had a hysterectomy when I was 42 for severe and fast growing fibroid tumors, endometriosis, and what I was told was a precancerous condition in my uterus.  After much research I told the doctor that I wanted to keep my ovaries if at all possible and I was able to do that.  So now my question is if I have my ovaries but no uterus then how do I tell the difference between perimenopause and menopause since I don’t have periods?  I feel stupid asking such a question but until recently menopause seemed to be almost an unspoken subject and I honestly do not know as much as I feel I should about it. I am not on HRT other than the occasional use of an estrogen cream for dryness.  Until recently I only had occasional hot flashes that were not a problem.  I’ve always dealt with depression and mood swings.  I am currently taking Effexor XR and it has helped my depression more than some of the other antidepressants I’ve tried.  I see a psychiatrist several times a year for depression and recently he seems to think I may be bipolar II due to mood swings and the fact that most antidepressants do not help me.  I am totally confused about this but there are such problems in my family and I understand it does tend to run in families. The past year I have had much more trouble with depression, mood swings and crying jags than usual.  More and more I am thinking this may be menopause related more than anything else especially since I recently have been having much stronger hot flashes on a daily basis.  I am not trying to talk myself out of being bipolar, depressed or whatever else they want to call it but I do feel that knowing more accurately what you are dealing with gives you a better chance at dealing with it. Also in recent weeks I have been having trouble with high blood pressure. (high blood pressure and heart trouble runs in the female side of my family) My doctor is having me keep a record of my blood pressure to show him when I go back next week.  My pulse (even resting pulse) seems to always be high – most of the time over 100.  Can this be related to menopause?  I have read that rapid heartbeat tends to go with it. I find the whole menopause issue especially confusing since I do not have periods due to surgery but I do still have my ovaries.  Has anyone else here dealt with this situation?  Whatever it is it has gotten much worse in the past few weeks with the hot flashes, mood swings, rapid pulse and crying jags.  Help! Thanks for putting up with my lengthy post and thanks for being here, Bonnie

Response:

Hi – I can’t answer your question, re: how to tell if menopausal Vs. peri if no bleeding because of no uterus (therefore I don’t think it’s a silly question! <g

), but… with a fast resting pulse, what springs to my mind is

possible hyperthyroidism – which thyroid blood work would help top rule in or out. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon "Bonnie" <zante9@(nospam)comcast.net

wrote in message

news:fklV8.285422$_j6.14051971@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’ve been reading this group for a few days and I must say what a relief

it

is to find others online that I feel I can relate to.  I will be 50 next month and I am embarrassed to say that I am not sure if I am currently in perimenopause or actually in menopause.  I had a hysterectomy when I was

42

for severe and fast growing fibroid tumors, endometriosis, and what I was told was a precancerous condition in my uterus.  After much research I

told

the doctor that I wanted to keep my ovaries if at all possible and I was able to do that.  So now my question is if I have my ovaries but no uterus then how do I tell the difference between perimenopause and menopause

since

I don’t have periods?  I feel stupid asking such a question but until recently menopause seemed to be almost an unspoken subject and I honestly

do

not know as much as I feel I should about it. I am not on HRT other than the occasional use of an estrogen cream for dryness.  Until recently I only had occasional hot flashes that were not a problem.  I’ve always dealt with depression and mood swings.  I am

currently

taking Effexor XR and it has helped my depression more than some of the other antidepressants I’ve tried.  I see a psychiatrist several times a

year

for depression and recently he seems to think I may be bipolar II due to mood swings and the fact that most antidepressants do not help me.  I am totally confused about this but there are such problems in my family and I understand it does tend to run in families. The past year I have had much more trouble with depression, mood swings

and

crying jags than usual.  More and more I am thinking this may be menopause related more than anything else especially since I recently have been

having

much stronger hot flashes on a daily basis.  I am not trying to talk

myself

out of being bipolar, depressed or whatever else they want to call it but

I

do feel that knowing more accurately what you are dealing with gives you a better chance at dealing with it. Also in recent weeks I have been having trouble with high blood pressure. (high blood pressure and heart trouble runs in the female side of my

family)

My doctor is having me keep a record of my blood pressure to show him when

I

go back next week.  My pulse (even resting pulse) seems to always be

high -

most of the time over 100.  Can this be related to menopause?  I have read that rapid heartbeat tends to go with it. I find the whole menopause issue especially confusing since I do not have periods due to surgery but I do still have my ovaries.  Has anyone else

here

dealt with this situation?  Whatever it is it has gotten much worse in the past few weeks with the hot flashes, mood swings, rapid pulse and crying jags.  Help! Thanks for putting up with my lengthy post and thanks for being here, Bonnie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: "Bonnie" zante9@(nospam)comcast.net Date: 7/5/02 11:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time I’ve been reading this group for a few days and I must say what a relief it is to find others online that I feel I can relate to.  I will be 50 next month and I am embarrassed to say that I am not sure if I am currently in perimenopause or actually in menopause.  I had a hysterectomy when I was 42 for severe and fast growing fibroid tumors, endometriosis, and what I was told was a precancerous condition in my uterus.  After much research I told the doctor that I wanted to keep my ovaries if at all possible and I was able to do that.  So now my question is if I have my ovaries but no uterus then how do I tell the difference between perimenopause and menopause since I don’t have periods?  I feel stupid asking such a question but until recently menopause seemed to be almost an unspoken subject and I honestly do not know as much as I feel I should about it. I am not on HRT other than the occasional use of an estrogen cream for dryness.  Until recently I only had occasional hot flashes that were not a problem.  I’ve always dealt with depression and mood swings.  I am currently taking Effexor XR and it has helped my depression more than some of the other antidepressants I’ve tried.  I see a psychiatrist several times a year for depression and recently he seems to think I may be bipolar II due to mood swings and the fact that most antidepressants do not help me.  I am totally confused about this but there are such problems in my family and I understand it does tend to run in families. The past year I have had much more trouble with depression, mood swings and crying jags than usual.  More and more I am thinking this may be menopause related more than anything else especially since I recently have been having much stronger hot flashes on a daily basis.  I am not trying to talk myself out of being bipolar, depressed or whatever else they want to call it but I do feel that knowing more accurately what you are dealing with gives you a better chance at dealing with it. Also in recent weeks I have been having trouble with high blood pressure. (high blood pressure and heart trouble runs in the female side of my family) My doctor is having me keep a record of my blood pressure to show him when I go back next week.  My pulse (even resting pulse) seems to always be high – most of the time over 100.  Can this be related to menopause?  I have read that rapid heartbeat tends to go with it. I find the whole menopause issue especially confusing since I do not have periods due to surgery but I do still have my ovaries.  Has anyone else here dealt with this situation?  Whatever it is it has gotten much worse in the past few weeks with the hot flashes, mood swings, rapid pulse and crying jags.  Help! Thanks for putting up with my lengthy post and thanks for being here, Bonnie

Hi Bonnie,and welcome. I am just going to address a couple issues and let those with better knowledge address the rest. I have had a rapid pulse all my life. My resting pulse is usually high 90s or 100+..even at rest and even when I was in my best shape. Thyroid tests come out fine. My doctor isn’t concerned. As to the blood pressure,the doctor should be able to find a medication that will help. I also had to be put on bp meds,and they seem to be working fine. Mood swings…been there. I am 56 and haven’t had a period for six years. My moods are much calmer than they were in peri. I’m glad you feel free to post here. Please post again,and best of luck.. Sharon….the problem is either in the hippocampus or the amygdala

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Frankenmel" <franken…@aol.comnospam

wrote: Hi Bonnie,and welcome. I am just going to address a couple issues and let

those

with better knowledge address the rest. I have had a rapid pulse all my life. My resting pulse is usually high 90s

or

100+..even at rest and even when I was in my best shape. Thyroid tests

come out

fine. My doctor isn’t concerned. As to the blood pressure,the doctor should be able to find a medication

that

will help. I also had to be put on bp meds,and they seem to be working

fine.

Mood swings…been there. I am 56 and haven’t had a period for six years.

My

moods are much calmer than they were in peri. I’m glad you feel free to post here. Please post again,and best of luck.. Sharon….the problem is either in the hippocampus or the amygdala

Hi Sharon, it is nice to hear from you.  I have thought that maybe it was normal for me to have a rapid pulse but I am easily tired and short of breath as well.  Still it is a relief to know that others have a high resting pulse without there being anything wrong.  I will see my doctor again this Thursday so I’ll see what he says this time. I have been on blood pressure meds for several years for what had been a minor bp problem.  When things got worse a week ago he changed my Cozaar to Hyzaar so maybe the additional diuretic will help.  If necessary he will raise the dosage when I see him next week. Those mood changes are a pain aren’t they?  So it really does calm down with time?  And the hot flashes – they DO go away eventually don’t they??? Thank you Sharon for welcoming me to the group – I appreciate it. Bonnie

Response:

From: "Bonnie" zante9@(nospam)comcast.net Date: 7/5/02 6:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time Hi Sharon, it is nice to hear from you.  I have thought that maybe it was normal for me to have a rapid pulse but I am easily tired and short of breath as well.  Still it is a relief to know that others have a high resting pulse without there being anything wrong.  I will see my doctor again this Thursday so I’ll see what he says this time.

Do you,or are you able to…exercise? Sometimes this helps with being tired and out of breath. If you’re even able to walk a small distance,it can help. However,it’s a good idea to have it checked out.

I have been on blood pressure meds for several years for what had been a minor bp problem.  When things got worse a week ago he changed my Cozaar to Hyzaar so maybe the additional diuretic will help.  If necessary he will raise the dosage when I see him next week.

Please keep us posted.

Those mood changes are a pain aren’t they?  So it really does calm down with time?  And the hot flashes – they DO go away eventually don’t they???

Well,it *usually* does calm down with time. I am much calmer,on the whole,than I was in peri. Hot flashes sometimes do go away,but some of us still have triggers that will rekindle (pun intended ;-D) them. For instance,wine or stress trigger mine,even at my age.

Thank you Sharon for welcoming me to the group – I appreciate it.

I,for one,will look forward to your updates. Happy trails. Sharon….the problem is either in the hippocampus or the amygdala

Response:

"Cathy Friedmann" <c…@adelphia.net

wrote: You know what?!  High bp, rapid pulse, fatigue, & shortness of breath are *all* symptoms of hyperthyroidism (I’m slightly hyperthyroid).  That’s not to say you’re definitely hyperthyroid, but it’s a distinct possibility. Otoh, (med) Tapazole could fairly easily set it right, if it turns out to

be

the case. Cathy

You really have me wondering now and as you suggested in your other response I did check out hyperthyroidism online and found I have several other symptoms as well – hmmmmm……… Thanks for your input – I’ll let you know what I find out when I next see my doctor. Bonnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

— "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon

Response:

Okay, good – worth looking into, at any rate, since one doesn’t want to leave it undiagnosed if it’s present. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon "Bonnie" <zante9@(nospam)comcast.net

wrote in message

news:q9wV8.577675$%y.37438090@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"Cathy Friedmann" <c…@adelphia.net wrote: You know what?!  High bp, rapid pulse, fatigue, & shortness of breath

are

*all* symptoms of hyperthyroidism (I’m slightly hyperthyroid).  That’s

not

to say you’re definitely hyperthyroid, but it’s a distinct possibility. Otoh, (med) Tapazole could fairly easily set it right, if it turns out

to

be the case. Cathy You really have me wondering now and as you suggested in your other

response

I did check out hyperthyroidism online and found I have several other symptoms as well – hmmmmm……… Thanks for your input – I’ll let you know what I find out when I next see

my

doctor. Bonnie — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon

Response:

You’re welcome.  There’s a large x-section of people here, & I can’t remember if there’s anyone else in your exact position, re: lack of uterus, but both ovaries present, but if so, you’ll likely to find out sooner or later.  IMO, you made a good choice, re: opting to keep your ovaries. See my other reply, re: possible hyperthyroidism – from the other symptoms you mentioned, I would definitely get it checked, if it wasn’t during your recent testing.  A short web search will also bring up a large amount of info, with the usual symptoms of hyperthyroidism.  (The only one I did *not* have was weight loss – boo, hiss!) Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon "Bonnie" <zante9@(nospam)comcast.net

wrote in message

news:YesV8.575799$%y.37301809@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"Cathy Friedmann" <c…@adelphia.net wrote: Hi – I can’t answer your question, re: how to tell if menopausal Vs.

peri

if no bleeding because of no uterus (therefore I don’t think it’s a silly question! <g), but… with a fast resting pulse, what springs to my

mind

is possible hyperthyroidism – which thyroid blood work would help top rule

in

or out. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon Hi Cathy and thanks for your response.  I feel so alone in this whole menopause thing sometimes plus the few women I know that are in this stage either still have their uterus or if they have had a hysterectomy they had

a

complete one.  I don’t think I have met anyone yet that kept their ovaries while everything else was removed.  I chose to do that because I felt I would be better off if I could avoid HRT as long as possible or maybe completely.  Sometimes I do worry about the ovarian cancer issue since

that

is so difficult to detect but I did what I felt was best at the time. Thanks for reminding me that some thyroid blood work could be in order due to my fast resting pulse.  I did have blood work done last week but I

don’t

know if that was included or not, guess I’ll find out this week. Bonnie

Response:

"Frankenmel" <franken…@aol.comnospam

wrote: Do you,or are you able to…exercise? Sometimes this helps with being

tired and

out of breath. If you’re even able to walk a small distance,it can help. However,it’s a good idea to have it checked out.

There’s that word – exercise!  Actually, that is something I plan on talking to my doctor about because I know I do need to get on some kind of an exercise program.  I used to be able to do much more physically than I can at the moment.  Right now walking up a flight of stairs or doing a few minutes of minor yard work leaves me short of breath and exhausted.  That makes me feel "old" and with my 50th birthday coming up soon I am determined to NOT feel old!

I have been on blood pressure meds for several years for what had been a minor bp problem.  When things got worse a week ago he changed my Cozaar

to

Hyzaar so maybe the additional diuretic will help.  If necessary he will raise the dosage when I see him next week. Please keep us posted.

I will, thanks for your interest.

Those mood changes are a pain aren’t they?  So it really does calm down

with

time?  And the hot flashes – they DO go away eventually don’t they??? Well,it *usually* does calm down with time. I am much calmer,on the

whole,than

I was in peri. Hot flashes sometimes do go away,but some of us still have triggers that will rekindle (pun intended ;-D) them. For instance,wine or stress trigger mine,even at my age.

I have noticed that some things do trigger my hot flashes but at other times they are quite a surprise.  So, I guess I should get used to them and learn how to deal with them then?

Thank you Sharon for welcoming me to the group – I appreciate it. I,for one,will look forward to your updates. Happy trails.

Thanks, and I look forward to getting to know everyone here.  This seems like a really nice and helpful group. Bonnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Sharon….the problem is either in the hippocampus or the amygdala

Response:

"Cathy Friedmann" <c…@adelphia.net

wrote: Hi – I can’t answer your question, re: how to tell if menopausal Vs. peri

if

no bleeding because of no uterus (therefore I don’t think it’s a silly question! <g), but… with a fast resting pulse, what springs to my mind

is

possible hyperthyroidism – which thyroid blood work would help top rule in or out. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon

Hi Cathy and thanks for your response.  I feel so alone in this whole menopause thing sometimes plus the few women I know that are in this stage either still have their uterus or if they have had a hysterectomy they had a complete one.  I don’t think I have met anyone yet that kept their ovaries while everything else was removed.  I chose to do that because I felt I would be better off if I could avoid HRT as long as possible or maybe completely.  Sometimes I do worry about the ovarian cancer issue since that is so difficult to detect but I did what I felt was best at the time. Thanks for reminding me that some thyroid blood work could be in order due to my fast resting pulse.  I did have blood work done last week but I don’t know if that was included or not, guess I’ll find out this week. Bonnie

Response:

You know what?!  High bp, rapid pulse, fatigue, & shortness of breath are *all* symptoms of hyperthyroidism (I’m slightly hyperthyroid).  That’s not to say you’re definitely hyperthyroid, but it’s a distinct possibility. Otoh, (med) Tapazole could fairly easily set it right, if it turns out to be the case. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon "Bonnie" <zante9@(nospam)comcast.net

wrote in message

news:a4sV8.575740$%y.37295756@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi Sharon, it is nice to hear from you.  I have thought that maybe it was normal for me to have a rapid pulse but I am easily tired and short of breath as well.  Still it is a relief to know that others have a high resting pulse without there being anything wrong.  I will see my doctor again this Thursday so I’ll see what he says this time. I have been on blood pressure meds for several years for what had been a minor bp problem.  When things got worse a week ago he changed my Cozaar

to

Hyzaar so maybe the additional diuretic will help.  If necessary he will raise the dosage when I see him next week. Those mood changes are a pain aren’t they?  So it really does calm down

with

time?  And the hot flashes – they DO go away eventually don’t they??? Thank you Sharon for welcoming me to the group – I appreciate it. Bonnie

Response:

Hi All, I just found this newsgroup in the past week. Many of the topics mentioned sound like what I went through before I finally became menopausal. Wish I had known about this site earlier. It would have helped me greatly. I have no elder parent, grandmother or aunt from whom I could ask questions and have received, hopefully, helpful answers. Talking to my doctor seemed like talking through water, like the ocean roaring behind me or something. When she retired, it was only then that I found out that she was 82. She looked much younger!!! One question I have is regarding my non-existent libido. I am 54 1/2 years old. My husband is very much interested in having our usual sex life. That was no problem when I was peri-menopausal. I would love to have that sense of desire and fulfillment back. In 2001, my family and I did homecare for my dying brother, the "baby" of the family who died when he was 31.  I realize now that I was going through peri-menopausal at the time but didn’t have the time or inclination to find out what that really meant. My new doctor, a much younger woman, prescribed Paxil for me since I was becoming very depressed while taking care of my brother. I had no extended family to help. My husband and our three nearly-adult kids pitched in wonderfully. It bothered me to see my kids having to deal with such a big issue, but my brother begged me not to let him die in the hospital. He was brought home in mid-July and died on Dec 24, 2001 It was shortly after that when I realized I could not enjoy sex. My doctor prescribed Wellbutrin to help boast my sex drive. I now have a small tingling in my labia and clitoris when I "feel" sexy but do not enjoy sex still.  I use a lubricant both on myself and my husband’s penis. I cannot achieve orgasm in spite of this. Recently, I tried to slowly get off the Paxil. When I was finally off it, I was fine for two weeks and then slipped into a paranoid depression.  I became abnormally suspicious of my husband. I was convinced that he must be having an affair. I had no proof, nor was there any change in his daily routine during that time. My doctor prescribed Paxil once more and I was fine once again. Thankfully, I have a very caring and loving husband. We have been happily married 34 years. I would like to have the energy and joy of my sex drive back. Has anyone else gone through something like I have? Thanks for reading. Ren–

Response:

"Dana

Question:

Mahan, Sorry this is so long in getting to you after you posted your questions.  I’ve been away for a while. About the FMS the FDA forced Tap, the maker of Lupron, to changes it’s package insert to state that it causes FMS (Fibromyalgia).  I believe you can find this info on both Tap’s website and on the FDA one. While I believe that it is possible that Lupron directly cuased your thyroid problem it is also posscible, like Murphy said, that you had the underlying problem and Lupron may have jump started it. I know of several other women with both problems you describe!   There is a good webstie for support of lupron problems at www.delphi.com/afterlupron The women there are wonderful and will give you all the support you can handle!! Hope to see you there! Kimb

Response:

Hi, I took lupron two years ago, and was already on thyroid medication.  I didn’t see a change in thyroid symptoms, but I have few thyroid symptoms to begin with.  However, I am not very surprised that something happened with your thyroid after taking lupron…I have heard of similar stories of people whose thyroids changed with birth control pills.   At the same time, thyroid problems are quite common and women seem to be affected more than men.  It’s similar to endo in that a lot of people go undiagnosed for a long time.  So it may be possible that you had an underlying thyroid problem before the lupron.  (Not "defending" lupron, just that these things can overlap). I know more about endo than thyroid, but I do know that the symptoms of hypothyroid and firbromyalgia can be similar.   There is a alt.support.thyroid group that seems to be pretty good.  Also, the web site about.com has a lot of information and message boards on thyroid, if you’re interested in learning more. Hope that helps a little, glad you got diagnosed properly and are getting treated.  Once the right level of medication is determined, it’s not the worst thing to have, more a matter of making sure you go for follow ups on blood work. Take care, Murphy

Response:

I don’t know about the Lupron/Thyroid connection, but I did want to say I agree that fibromyalgia and thyroid problems can have the same symptoms.  My mom’s on thyroid medication and her levels got way off, leading her and the dr to think maybe she has fibromyalgia.  She couldn’t even lift her arms above her head anymore.  They’ve been working hard at getting it regulated again and she’s beginning to feel much better.  The thyroid can really mess up your system and sometimes it takes quite a while to get the levels right again.  So for anyone who thinks they may have fibro, make sure your dr does bloodwork to check your thyroid first. Darcy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello,      I just have a quick question. I took Lupron about  two years ago, and about five months ago I started feeling really bad again. My Doctor ran all kinds of test and we found out that my thyroid was really messed up. They call it Hypothyroidism, has anyone else had this problem after taking Lupron? Oh and one more thing, another Doctor diagnosed me with Fibromyalgia and after I got on my thyroid  meds all my aching went away. My Doctor said that lack of Thyroid hormone can show some of the same symptoms. Thanks in advance!

Response:

Hello,      I just have a quick question. I took Lupron about  two years ago, and about five months ago I started feeling really bad again. My Doctor ran all kinds of test and we found out that my thyroid was really messed up. They call it Hypothyroidism, has anyone else had this problem after taking Lupron? Oh and one more thing, another Doctor diagnosed me with Fibromyalgia and after I got on my thyroid  meds all my aching went away. My Doctor said that lack of Thyroid hormone can show some of the same symptoms. Thanks in advance!

Response:

Question:

Thyroid is easier to treat than bipolar–so you will need more patience with treating your bipolar disorder. Hi. I didn’t develop Hashimoto’s disease yet but my endo says i will most likely develop it when i turn older. I’m currently not on any thyroid medication. i don’t have any hypo-hyper symptoms. Although my endo is keeping a close eye on me Anyhow right now i’m more into trying to treat myself mentally. I know i can make it but it’s hard because no one around me (family, friends) understand me and how i feel. It’s troubling. It doesn’t make my situation any better. Well Thanks for understanding — carla  :o)   Two roads diverged into a wood and i      i took the one less traveled and that has made all the difference                     – Robert Frost

Response:

Am I misled – I thought hypothyroidism could be expressed as depression, and hyperthyroidism as mania? I get so confused about this whole thyroid/bipolar connection. jen * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I think the symptoms of each are similar and can be mistaken, but I don’t think it means one IS the other.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Am I misled – I thought hypothyroidism could be expressed as depression, and hyperthyroidism as mania? I get so confused about this whole thyroid/bipolar connection. jen * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hi Jen, Am I misled – I thought hypothyroidism could be expressed as depression, and hyperthyroidism as mania? I get so confused about this whole thyroid/bipolar connection.

It is prudent to be screened for any thyroid condition as it can mask the SXs of BP Disorder. Here is a link: http://www.onhealth.com/ch1/columnist/item,46699.asp Key in "Bipolar and Hormones " Here is an abstract I have: The Thyroid and Mixed Affective States. Joffe RT, Young LT, Cooke RG, Robb J Mood Disorders Program, Clarke Institute of Psychiatry, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The relationship between Grade II subclinical hypothyroidism and mixed affective states were examined in a cohort of 66 patients with bipolar affective disorder. The overall frequency of Grade II subclinical hypothyroidism was 20%. There was no difference in frequency of subclinical hypothyroidism or in mean thyroid hormone levels between the mixed state and non-mixed-state group. PMID: 7976459, UI: 95066971 This is some further info: http://content.health.msn.com/content/dmk/dmk_article_5461965 It is important that the physician rule-out other conditions that may be causing symptoms of mania. Hypomania, the less severe variant of mania, may be difficult to distinguish from normal joy or euphoria, but it can be differentiated by its persistence for more than a day; in addition, most hypomanic patients are easily distracted, overly talkative, and not functioning very well. Severe manic episodes with delusions and hallucinations may be easily confused with schizophrenia. (African American men, for instance, are more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia than with bipolar disorder.) Thyroid disorders may cause mood swings, as can adrenal disorders (e.g., Addison’s disease and Cushing’s syndrome), vitamin B12 deficiency, certain neurologic disorders (e.g., Huntington’s disease, epilepsy, brain tumors, encephalitis, multiple sclerosis), and various medications, including some drugs used to treat anxiety, Parkinson’s disease, and depression. Alcoholism and substance abuse occur often in bipolar patients, sometimes attributed to self-medication. Both diagnosis and treatment are difficult in such cases, particularly since withdrawal from opiates or alcohol can cause symptoms of mania or severe depression. Children or adolescents with manic-depressive illness may be inappropriately diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder; in some cases, ADHD may be a marker for an emerging bipolar disorder. Current research is seeking to discover factors in the blood that might help diagnose bipolar disorder and determine the effectiveness of treatment. Such tests would be particularly helpful in differentiating attention deficit hyperactivity disorder from bipolar disorder in young people. One study that measured blood levels of the neurotransmitter serotonin provides some promise; higher levels were found in children with behavior disorders and lower levels were found in children with mood disorders. High levels of factors known as G proteins have been detected in both type I and type II bipolar patients, but studies have been contradictory, and there is no evidence yet that can be reliably used for diagnostic purposes. Well-Connected Board of Editors Harvey Simon, M.D., Editor-in-Chief Massachusetts Institute of Technology; Physician, Massachusetts General Hospital Masha J. Etkin, M.D., Gynecology Harvard Medical School; Physician, Massachusetts General Hospital John E. Godine, M.D., Ph.D., Metabolism Harvard Medical School; Associate Physician, Massachusetts General Hospital Daniel Heller, M.D., Pediatrics Harvard Medical School; Associate Pediatrician, Massachusetts General Hospital; Active Staff, Children’s Hospital Irene Kuter, M.D., D. Phil., Oncology Harvard Medical School; Assistant Physician, Massachusetts General Hospital Paul C. Shellito, M.D., Surgery Harvard Medical School; Associate Visiting Surgeon, Massachusetts General Hospital Theodore A. Stern, M.D., Psychiatry Harvard Medical School; Psychiatrist and Chief, Psychiatric Consultation Service, Massachusetts General Hospital Carol Peckham, Editorial Director Cynthia Chevins, Publisher

Question:

great info. thanks cacamayayo!

Response:

- – - – - S t i c k i n g  O u t  O u r  N e c k s !! – - – - – -              The Thyroid Disease News Report                      by Mary Shomon          "We’re Patients…NOT Lab Values!!" Issue #37                   31 March 2000 Welcome to the thirty-seventh issue of "Sticking Out Our Necks!" my thyroid disease news report.   ON THE WEB: My Thyroid Disease Information Source and News Report home page is located at http://www.thyroid-info.com, and I also run a comprehensive Thyroid Disease About.com website, which you can get to at http://thyroid.about.com. CONTRIBUTE: If you see something thyroid-related in the news or on the web, please feel free to let me know, send me a note, or forward the URL mail is P.O. Box 0385, Palm Harbor, FL 34682 TO SUBSCRIBE, UNSUBSCRIBE AND CONTRIBUTE: This news report is distributed via a list service called Onelist. (Note: Your email address is sacred and will not be sold or made available to ANYONE!)  To subscribe to "Sticking Out Our Necks" visit the Thyroid Disease News Report Subscription Center, at http://www.onelist.com/community/ThyroidNews OR you can send a blank http://www.onelist.com to manage your subscription.  To contribute information, thoughts or ideas for the newsletter, write to me, the BACK ISSUES: 220 pages jam-packed with information from 33 back issues of this newsletter from 1997 – 1999 are available as an indexed, easily printed electronic book, for immediate download now. See: http://www.thyroid-info.com/ebook-subjects.htm   MY BOOK: "Living Well With Hypothyroidism: What Your Doctors Don’t Tell You…That You Need to Know," published March 2000, by HarperCollins. http://www.thyroid-info.com/booktoc.htm TRICKY BUSINESS IN HANFORD? HEALTH NETWORK TO CLOSE,  WORKERS SUE PLANT, ALLEGING RADIATION EXPOSURE COVERUP The Richland, Washington based Hanford Health Network, an organization set up to provide information on the health impact of radiation released by the Hanford Nuclear Reservation, is shutting down.  The network, established in 1991 by Congress, was supposed to operate through 2001, but it will be closed down by the end of June, 2000 due to U.S. Department of Energy budget cuts. Downwinders– those people who believe their exposure to Hanford radiation has caused a number of health concerns such as high rates of thyroid disease and thyroid cancer — are concerned because the network was keeping track of health information for this large number of potentially exposed individuals. Some Downwinders have formed the Radiation Health Effects Archives, a nonprofit group seeking private money to maintain the health information archives for Downwinders. The Associated Press quotes one Downwinder activist as saying: "We have no medical monitoring, no official apology and no compensation. I think the DOE doesn’t want the full story of the Manhattan Project and its aftermath to be known." It’s likely that Hanford Downwinders, plant workers and the media will further question the motivations behind the decision to close the Hanford plant in light of the March 31, 2000 report, in which plant workers allege deliberate cover-ups of radiation exposure at Hanford. Eleven workers who became ill after a May 14, 1997 explosion at the Department of Energy’s Hanford nuclear weapons factory are now suing the plant’s contractors, claiming the contractors have lied about the incident and prevented workers from getting more information about potential exposure to plutonium. According to the Washington Post, some workers were harassed, medical tests refused or bungled, and medical records stolen, all suggesting to the workers a fraudulent effort on the part of plant operator, Fluor Daniel Corp., to conceal details of the accident. In the hours immediately after the accident, workers  were prevented from learning what they had been exposed to, a radiation "nasal smear" test was bungled, then samples locked away for a month without testing, and blood and urine tests refused. Independent medical review has found that the workers are in fact suffering from various conditions that point to low-level radiation exposure. Attorneys for the workers who are suing have said in the Post, "The contractors didn’t want to know the truth and they made sure the truth was covered up. Nothing else explains the total lack of follow-up for these people after their exposure." 13 MILLION AMERICANS SUFFER FROM UNDIAGNOSED THYROID DISEASE, 40 PERCENT OF TREATED THYROID PATIENTS NOT IN RANGE A study published in the February 28, 2000 issue of the "Archives of Internal Medicine" found that an estimated 10 percent of the population — more than 13 million Americans — have undiagnosed thyroid disease. This number is double the commonly accepted estimate previously suspected level of only 5 percent of the population.  The "Colorado Thyroid Disease Prevalence Study" assessed how common abnormal thyroid function actually is, and looked at the connection between abnormal thyroid function, cholesterol levels, and thyroid symptoms. The researchers studied more than 25,000 participants at the 1995 Colorado statewide health fair. The findings were quite startling to researchers.  8.9 percent of the participants were found to be hypothyroid and 1.1 percent  hyperthyroid.  The same study also found that even a slight decrease in thyroid function — what is known as "subclinical" hypothyroidism – can cause elevated cholesterol levels. These findings go along with the January 2000 results of an American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists survey, indicating that as many as ten percent of the 98 million Americans with high cholesterol levels may not know that their cholesterol is elevated due to undiagnosed thyroid problems. The linkage was further confirmed in the February 15, 2000 "Annals of  Internal Medicine" with its publication of the Rotterdam Study, which found that older women with subclinical hypothyroidism were almost twice as likely as women without hypothyroidism to have blockages in the aorta, and were also twice as likely to have had heart attacks. On other surprising finding was that among patients taking thyroid medication, only 60 percent were within the normal range of TSH. That leaves 40 percent of patients, a number that translates to millions of Americans, who are hypothyroid, and taking thyroid hormone, who are NOT in the normal TSH range.  This points up a need for more frequent monitoring and adjustment of dosages — versus the typical doctor’s recommendation of maximum yearly testing – - but may also point to serious inadequacies in the current thyroid hormone therapy, which relies almost entirely on synthetic thyroid hormone replacement known as levothyroxine (brandnames Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothyroid, Eltroxin). (An article on this, with links to the studies, is also featured at: http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa022800a.htm) (Note: This study was funded by Knoll Pharmaceuticals, manufacturer of Synthroid.) HYPERTHYROIDISM INCREASES RISK OF OVARIAN CANCER According to the March, 2000 issue of the journal ‘Epidemiology," hyperthyroidism was linked to an 80% higher risk of ovarian cancer. This study is the first that has connected hyperthyroidism and ovarian cancer. The researches believe that the connection is related to the inflammation caused by autoimmune hyperthyroidism. The research overall found that factors that cause inflammation in the lining of the ovaries — conditions such as endometriosis, ovarian cysts, or even using powder containing talc — can increase the risk of ovarian cancer. While pregnancy, breastfeeding and birth control pill usage reduced the risk, ovarian cysts increased the risk by 30%; endometriosis by 70% and hyperthyroidism increased the risk by, 80%. (Source: Epidemiology 2000;11:111-117) Note to patients: If you are hyperthyroid, or if you have any family history of ovarian cancer, you should consider asking your doctor for the CA-125 test, a blood test that can help identify those at increased risk for ovarian cancer. SMOKING/THYROID LINK ESTABLISHED Researchers have found that if you smoke, you are putting yourself at increased risk for thyroid disease. The March 13, 2000 issue of the "Archives of Internal Medicine" shows that smoking increases the risk of developing thyroid diseases, and the greatest risk is for developing Graves’ disease. The study looked at twins, one smoking, and the other non-smoking, and compared them for thyroid disease. Of all of the thyroid diseases, the strongest connection with smoking was seen with the autoimmune form of hyperthyroidism known as Graves’ disease. Researchers also determined that the longer or more people smoked, the more evident the thyroid disease was, which indicated that smoking’s effects on thyroid function are cumulative.   For an abstract: http://archinte.ama-assn.org/issues/current/abs/ioi90168.html For full text: http://archinte.ama-assn.org/issues/current/full/ioi90168.html Note: we’ve known for a while that if you have a thyroid problem and smoke, you can be worsening your symptoms, particularly thyroid eye disease associated with hyperthyroidism.  See: http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa111999.htm for more information) (Source: "Cigarette Smoking and Risk of Clinically Overt Thyroid Disease," Archives of Internal Medicine, Vol. 160 No. 5, March 13, 2000)

… read more »

Response:

Question:

gs <he…@rest.net

wrote in message

news:182863D9227BA940.C5295BA6B4991D89.3AD99ED25F4624D7@lp.airnews.net…

All I can say is my Mom died from undiagnosed thyroid problem.

  How did her doctors overlook this. Thyroid disease is obviously a very common condition seen in doctor’s offices. It ’s signs are pretty obvious. How does it cause death? J  It is a very – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

real health concern.  Especially for older women.  I think people should read studies, and then question their doctors.  It is a very REAL problem. Now this article particularly interests me because of my co-worker who’s taking Synthroid and has now been given Evista to prevent the Synthroid from giving her osteoporosis. I asked her why she was taking Synthroid in the first place, and she

said

she’d had no symptoms, but was put on it after a blood test showed she

was

mildly hypothyroid.  She said the doctor told her that the thyroid gland "just deteriorates with age."  (She was in her 40s at the time, is now 52.) I asked her why she was given Evista rather than Fosamax, and she said

"My

doctor said Evista is better than Fosamax because it also lowers your

bad

cholesterol."  When I asked her that question, I hadn’t read this

article

yet and didn’t realize that the Synthroid itself is supposed to be lowering her cholesterol. But I checked the PDR.  I found that Evista increases the risk of

ovarian

cancer (in rats, no data on humans yet) and the risk of abnormal blood clot formation.  Fosamax doesn’t have any such dangerous risks, although the way you have to *take* Fosamax is a big pain in the butt. I find this all very interesting. Eva Sounds like your friend needs to get active in her healthcare.  Symptoms

of

thyroid disease often go unnoticed because they are so symptoms of various other conditions….perimenopause and menopause for example. Maybe you should *encourage* your friend to question her doctor and the choice of medication.     gs

Response:

With this drug-company funded study, again I ask, "what goes wrong with so many US thyroids, and why mostly women’s thyroids? Is a drug company funded study the best source of information on this topic? Is there an inherent conflict of interests when you read the full details of this study and not just the sound-byte conclusions? J gs <he…@rest.net

wrote in message

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<droz…@home.com wrote in message news:38d9b40c.37243615@news… On 23 Mar 2000 05:26:57 GMT, mpitc2…@aol.comnospam (MPitc2000) wrote: New Study Shows Twice as Many Americans May Suffer from Undiagnosed Thyroid Disease I don’t think that anyone on asm has ever said that undiagnosed thryroid disease was not a problem. It has been asked on asm what is going wrong with so many *women’s*

thyroid,

that Syntroid is the number two drug. Largest-Ever Prevalence Study Links Mildest Forms of Hypothyroidism to Increases in Cholesterol; Exposes Need for More Widespread Thyroid Testing DENVER, Feb. 27 /PRNewswire/ — The largest study to date evaluating

the

prevalence of thyroid disease indicates there may be more than 13

million

Americans who are unaware they have a thyroid condition even though the disease may be impacting their short- and long-term health. For the original study article in the Feb 28 2000 Archives of Internal Medicine online see: http://archinte.ama-assn.org/issues/v160n4/full/ioi90027.html The Colorado Thyroid Disease Prevalence Study Gay J. Canaris [ et al ] [ small quote  ] Results from this study also highlighted the large number of patients taking thyroid hormones who were not in the therapeutic range. Clinicians may therefore consider monitoring patients on thyroid replacement more frequently. 40% of those on thyroid medications in fact. Why?. Overtreatment could be one part of this and that is what all the commotion was about on asm recently. Kathryn droz…@home.com It is saying that patients on thyroid medication need to be monitored closer.  Too many are given the medication, and doctors think it will magically bring them to the proper level. Therefore, the study is pointing out the need to monitor these patients closely, too much or too little medication is a problem.   gs

Response:

Eva D. Struction <EvaDSt…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:QInC4.16697$

Knoll Now this article particularly interests me because

of my co-worker who’s

taking Synthroid and has now been given Evista to prevent the Synthroid

from

giving her osteoporosis.

   I hate seeing this as a trend t ocover up the trail of the misuse of thyroid prescriptions.. Always best at this time to go back and revisit the efficacy of the first diagnosis and the first medication before starting this drug-layering process; when one drug gets added to deal with the side-effects caused by the first drug. This creates this endless spiral and one gives over their bodies and often their lives to chasing a drug down-fall that can be often far worse than the underlying condition that started the whole thing.  My constant advice, look into the cause of conditions, evaluate non-drug alternatives to affect the cause, before embarking on drug dead-ends treating only the symptoms. Evista in cahoots with all the over-prescribing of Synthroid is a scary site to behold. The Evista will now cause hot flashes, and that will lead to HRT prescriptions, which will lead to more breast cancers which will lead to more Tamoxifin prescriptions, which will increass blood pressure and raise cholesterol which will lead to drugs for HBP and lowering cholesterol, and drugs to counteract the progesterone induced depressions, and possibly drugs to control the migraines……….Stop the Insanity! Enough already.   Re-investigate the need for the first drug. See what other information has been learned about the underlying condition. Read the drug label, particularly for Synthroid to see if you are really using it for authorized conditions, and proceed very very carefully when starting this drug layering downfall. J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I asked her why she was taking Synthroid in the first place, and she said she’d had no symptoms, but was put on it after a blood test showed she was mildly hypothyroid.  She said the doctor told her that the thyroid gland "just deteriorates with age."  (She was in her 40s at the time, is now

52.)

I asked her why she was given Evista rather than Fosamax, and she said "My doctor said Evista is better than Fosamax because it also lowers your bad cholesterol."  When I asked her that question, I hadn’t read this article yet and didn’t realize that the Synthroid itself is supposed to be

lowering

her cholesterol. But I checked the PDR.  I found that Evista increases the risk of ovarian cancer (in rats, no data on humans yet) and the risk of abnormal blood

clot

formation.  Fosamax doesn’t have any such dangerous risks, although the

way

you have to *take* Fosamax is a big pain in the butt. I find this all very interesting. Eva

Response:

On 23 Mar 2000 05:26:57 GMT, mpitc2…@aol.comnospam (MPitc2000) wrote:

Average total cholesterol levels for patients with overt hypothyroidism were 251 mg/dL and the average total cholesterol levels for subclinical hypothyroid patients were 224 mg/dL — both above 200 mg/dL, the marker used to indicate elevated cholesterol levels that warrant medical attention. Because the connection between hypothyroidism and cholesterol is so clear, the National Cholesterol Education Program and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration recommend thyroid testing in patients with high cholesterol levels.

This connection may be well known among people who regularly deal with thyroid problems, but I think it is pretty much unsuspected by the public at large. <snip

"Thyroid symptoms are so common and are often mistaken for signs of aging, menopause, depression or stress," said Gay Canaris, MD, assistant professor of internal medicine, University of Nebraska Medical Center.  "Since we can’t rely upon reported symptoms alone to detect disease, we as physicians should be conducting more thyroid testing."

<snip

Serum TSH concentrations were measured by third-generation immunochemiluminescent assay.  Normal range was a TSH level between 0.3 and 5.1 mIU/L, subclinical hypothyroidism was characterized by an elevated TSH level (greater than 5.1 mIU/L) and a normal T4, and overt hypothyroidism was evaluated as an elevated TSH level (greater than 10.0 mIU/L) and a decreased T4.

Some people still argue that subclinical hypothyroidism does not exist.

Response:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:39:25 GMT, droz…@home.com wrote:

For the original study article in the Feb 28 2000 Archives of Internal Medicine online see: http://archinte.ama-assn.org/issues/v160n4/full/ioi90027.html Results from this study also highlighted the large number of patients taking thyroid hormones who were not in the therapeutic range. Clinicians may therefore consider monitoring patients on thyroid replacement more frequently. 40% of those on thyroid medications in fact. Why?. Overtreatment could be one part of this and that is what all the commotion was about on asm recently.

Did you read the data in Table 2 of the report?  I’ll reproduce the relevant part: Subjects taking thyroid medication      (n=1525)   Euthyroid                             916 (60.1%)   Hypothyroid                            11 (0.7%)   Subclinical hypothyroid               269 (17.6)   Hyperthyroid                           13 (0.9)   Subclinical hyperthyroid              316 (20.7) Lumping together clinical and subclinical cases, 18% had too little medication and 22% had too much.  The majority of these cases were subclinical.  So the recommendation means exactly what it says: when a patient is already on thyroid medication, that patient should probably be monitored more carefully than is present practice.  It does NOT mean that medication is being given unnecessarily, which is what you are implying.

Response:

Thanks for this post, tishy I get the impression that many still do not get how much for-profit money and advertising has entered into the health care field. This has been steady since the introduction of Tagamet, over 15 years ago. The entire field is riddled with abuse today. And this is a sorry state of affairs.     The only good thing I see, is that it is temporary and that more accesss to better education will bring us the best of all possible worlds in health care when these issues all settle out. But this will take a decade or so. Stay well until then. J <ti…@cheerful.com

wrote in message

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On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 03:56:47 GMT, "Joan Livingston" <joan.livingst…@gte.net wrote: Or the real black-helicopter speculation is that this whole thyroid-osteo threat has been concocted by Evista to boost their decidely lagging sales Today I visited a large book store and there discovered in the "mindbenders" section of  the current magazine "Adbusters" (which is a Canadian publication but available in the US at Borders etc) a two page feature dealing with the presentation of raloxifene (Evista). On the left hand page there is a reproduction of an article from the New York times – with suitably highlighted sections. On the right page there is commentary on the highlighted bits which critiques the pronounced positive bias of the article. I was intrigued to find that the content was so very similar to past asm posts and links available for the the raloxifene section of M&B that no regular reader here would learn anything new from it. Moving from the magazine section to the bookshelves I came upon a new (to me) book on natural progesterone. In the chapter on "progesterone for men" I was informed that the falling levels of testosterone in men and the resultant shift in balance with estrogen leading to the development of fatty breasts as they age may be an indication of "estrogen dominance" so…. Need I say more? In the Bargain Books section the 1998 book (also new to me) entitled "Menopause and Madness" originally priced at $C34.95 was selling (or offered for sale at least) at the paltry price of C$4.95 despite promising to tell what it means for all women that one woman in particular had been saved from madness by estrogen replacement. Tishy

Response:

Talk to some people in the grad schools at research institutions who laugh at the protocols they are often asked to "test". The answers are foregone conclusions, even before the studies start. It should have been disclosed up front that Synthroid was paying for that thyroid "study"  but it was not. It took a bit of time to track Knoll Laboratories to their product Syntroid. J gs <he…@rest.net

wrote in message

news:767935F04FF740AC.1CF9F70C65070528.93213659934E9F27@lp.airnews.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Joan Livingston" <joan.livingst…@gte.net

wrote in message

> news:%tBC4.1382$QJ3.238875@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net… > > You are right, this was not the most reliable of studies as the study > group > > were people attending a "health fair". And since the study was funded by > the > > makers of Synthroid, who knows what else they learned in their "study" > that > > they did not report. This collection of subjective data about a drug that > is > > paying for the information collection and is doing the compilation under > > unknown directives is as you say, not the most reliable of studies. > >  And this is why it is so helpful to discuss all the issues of cited > studies > > so we can get beyond sound-byte "conclusions." > > J > I wasn’t talking about the fact it was funded by the drug company. It has > been mentioned before, but drug companies fund quite a few things. Just > because money is given, doesn’t always mean it is a flawed study.  gs > > gs <he…@rest.net

wrote in message

news:B2144DFFFCA3DC3B.A0B62EDA96AF5E25.AB0595D1362AF9C1@lp.airnews.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > "Joan Livingston" <joan.livingst…@gte.net

wrote in message

> > > news:UYxC4.796$QJ3.170052@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net… > > > > <droz…@home.com> wrote in message news:38da72a7.5017620@news… > > > > > On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:21:58 -0500, Robert Ames > <am…@bellsouth.net> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >.  It does NOT > > > > > >mean that medication is being given unnecessarily, which is what > you > > > > > >are implying. > > > > > Not just implying, the article said: > > > > > >These data show that there is an excess of patients who are not > > > > > > in the normal range of thyroid function. Such patients may be at > > risk > > > > > >for organic consequences of overtreatment or undertreatment or (in

the case of those with suppressed TSH levels) may be taking thyroid  hormones for reasons other than replacement. Tell me what are these **necessary** reasons for taking thyroid hormones other than as replacement? Feeling good? Weight loss?   Or what the doctor teaching a course said about giving out thryoid medications is that they were used  as "get out of my office" prescriptions. J Kathryn droz…@home.com If a doctor prescribes a drug, such as synthroid, as a *get out of my office*, or a *feel good* , medicine, that is malpractice. In my experience with doctors, they rarely want to prescribe anything, except antidepressants. The study only has the one sentence talking about taking thyroid medication for reasons other than replacement.  It isn’t mentioned anywhere else. This is a study based on people filling out a questionnaire.  Not the most reliable of studies.  I would like to know for what other reasons someone would take thyroid. Other than…to feel good. I was disappointed that it didn’t mention other reasons.  gs

Response:

You are right, this was not the most reliable of studies as the study group were people attending a "health fair". And since the study was funded by the makers of Synthroid, who knows what else they learned in their "study" that they did not report. This collection of subjective data about a drug that is paying for the information collection and is doing the compilation under unknown directives is as you say, not the most reliable of studies.  And this is why it is so helpful to discuss all the issues of cited studies so we can get beyond sound-byte "conclusions." J gs <he…@rest.net

wrote in message

news:B2144DFFFCA3DC3B.A0B62EDA96AF5E25.AB0595D1362AF9C1@lp.airnews.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Joan Livingston" <joan.livingst…@gte.net

wrote in message

> news:UYxC4.796$QJ3.170052@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net… > > <droz…@home.com> wrote in message news:38da72a7.5017620@news… > > > On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:21:58 -0500, Robert Ames <am…@bellsouth.net> > > > wrote: > > > >.  It does NOT > > > >mean that medication is being given unnecessarily, which is what you > > > >are implying. > > > Not just implying, the article said: > > > >These data show that there is an excess of patients who are not > > > > in the normal range of thyroid function. Such patients may be at risk

for organic consequences of overtreatment or undertreatment or (in the case of those with suppressed TSH levels) may be taking thyroid  hormones for reasons other than replacement. Tell me what are these **necessary** reasons for taking thyroid hormones other than as replacement? Feeling good? Weight loss?   Or what the doctor teaching a course said about giving out thryoid medications is that they were used  as "get out of my office" prescriptions. J Kathryn droz…@home.com If a doctor prescribes a drug, such as synthroid, as a *get out of my office*, or a *feel good* , medicine, that is malpractice. In my

experience

with doctors, they rarely want to prescribe anything, except antidepressants. The study only has the one sentence talking about taking thyroid

medication

for reasons other than replacement.  It isn’t mentioned anywhere else.

This

is a study based on people filling out a questionnaire.  Not the most reliable of studies.  I would like to know for what other reasons someone would take thyroid. Other than…to feel good. I was disappointed that it didn’t mention other reasons.  gs

Response:

gs <he…@rest.net

wrote in message

news:F69EBED401586314.27E9AE397520BC7C.6D45FD77ECF4EE3C@lp.airnews.net… > "> "~ Windsong ~" <Fishh…@hotcom.net

wrote in message

> > news:2RyC4.3247$Og6.705832@tw12.nn.bcandid.com… > > > Joan Livingston <joan.livingst…@gte.net

wrote in message

> > > news:UYxC4.796$QJ3.170052@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net… > > > >   Or what the doctor teaching a course said about giving out thryoid > > > > medications is that they were used  as "get out of my office" > > > prescriptions. > It makes me wonder about the *credibility* of this doctor.  What type of > class was he teaching?     gs

 I applauded his candor. He was a Prof of Clinical Medicine at UCLA Medical School and it was a CEU course called "Calm Before the Storm" dealing with diagnostic trees to help determine what initial symptoms may mean. He was the one who issued the warning (as has been cited to this newsgroup) about the over use of thyroid medications and the threat of this being an osteoporosis-cofactor. It was in response to a question from the audience about some reasons for thyroid medications that he offered this insight about (I gather in the trade) it being used as a "get out of my office" prescription.      If one knows medical professionals, this is not an unheard of phenomena. Don’t be too shocked to hear this. Like HRT, thyroid medications have been given for everything from "corns to unhappy marriages." This is how -some- doctors see both drugs and patients. Some patients with collections of symptoms which defy medical common sense can demand the doctor "do something", so he/she hands out what he/she thinks is a benign drug of little consequence. A placebo naturally would be a better choice, but for a long time "hypo-thyroid" was the disease du jour, and the prescriptions got written. Too many people still insist their weight problems are "thyroid problems" and hence this desire for a prescription for those resistent to the exploration of mind/body over-eating issues.   I don’t hear "hypo-thyroid" being talked about as much as it once was a while back (in the US), but those prescriptions probably just kept getting renewed and now comes the morbid harvest of the osteoporosis threat.   So the campaign from the medical profession has been to try and get women off …until now hearing about putting them on a second drug ..Evista….instead to try and make up for the first level of iatrogenic drug abuse.     Or the real black-helicopter speculation is that this whole thyroid-osteo threat has been concocted by Evista to boost their decidely lagging sales …..and since Evista causes hot flashes …enter our good friends W/A with their lagging Premarin sales …….well, you know the picture…..  Final analysis, no the guy was not a quack ….he was a truth teller and we need to encourage more of that in medicine. After all no one seems to know why really so many USA thyroid glands have gone so bad to make Synthroid the 2nd leading selling US drug. Maybe, just maybe it was bad prescribing protocol …and women insisting they had "hypothyroid" weight problems……maybe? J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

So we’ll now assume all Dr’s are like that dud? — Carol… Q. What do they call "Hee Haw" in Tennessee? A. A documentary. ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~

Response:

"Joan Livingston" <joan.livingst…@gte.net

wrote in message

news:%tBC4.1382$QJ3.238875@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

You are right, this was not the most reliable of studies as the study

group

were people attending a "health fair". And since the study was funded by

the

makers of Synthroid, who knows what else they learned in their "study"

that

they did not report. This collection of subjective data about a drug that

is

paying for the information collection and is doing the compilation under unknown directives is as you say, not the most reliable of studies.  And this is why it is so helpful to discuss all the issues of cited

studies

so we can get beyond sound-byte "conclusions." J

I wasn’t talking about the fact it was funded by the drug company. It has been mentioned before, but drug companies fund quite a few things. Just because money is given, doesn’t always mean it is a flawed study.  gs > gs <he…@rest.net

wrote in message

> news:B2144DFFFCA3DC3B.A0B62EDA96AF5E25.AB0595D1362AF9C1@lp.airnews.net… > > "Joan Livingston" <joan.livingst…@gte.net

wrote in message

> > news:UYxC4.796$QJ3.170052@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net… > > > <droz…@home.com> wrote in message news:38da72a7.5017620@news… > > > > On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:21:58 -0500, Robert Ames

<am…@bellsouth.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

wrote: .  It does NOT mean that medication is being given unnecessarily, which is what

you

are implying. Not just implying, the article said: These data show that there is an excess of patients who are not in the normal range of thyroid function. Such patients may be at risk for organic consequences of overtreatment or undertreatment or (in the case of those with suppressed TSH levels) may be taking

thyroid

 hormones for reasons other than replacement. Tell me what are these **necessary** reasons for taking thyroid hormones other than as replacement? Feeling good? Weight loss?   Or what the doctor teaching a course said about giving out thryoid medications is that they were used  as "get out of my office" prescriptions. J Kathryn droz…@home.com If a doctor prescribes a drug, such as synthroid, as a *get out of my office*, or a *feel good* , medicine, that is malpractice. In my experience with doctors, they rarely want to prescribe anything, except antidepressants. The study only has the one sentence talking about taking thyroid medication for reasons other than replacement.  It isn’t mentioned anywhere else. This is a study based on people filling out a questionnaire.  Not the most reliable of studies.  I would like to know for what other reasons

someone

would take thyroid. Other than…to feel good. I was disappointed that

it

didn’t mention other reasons.  gs

Response:

"Joan Livingston" <joan.livingst…@gte.net

wrote in message

news:3IBC4.1392$QJ3.243178@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> gs <he…@rest.net

wrote in message

> news:F69EBED401586314.27E9AE397520BC7C.6D45FD77ECF4EE3C@lp.airnews.net… > > "> "~ Windsong ~" <Fishh…@hotcom.net

wrote in message

> > > news:2RyC4.3247$Og6.705832@tw12.nn.bcandid.com… > > > > Joan Livingston <joan.livingst…@gte.net

wrote in message

> > > > news:UYxC4.796$QJ3.170052@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net… > > > > >   Or what the doctor teaching a course said about giving out thryoid

medications is that they were used  as "get out of my office" prescriptions. It makes me wonder about the *credibility* of this doctor.  What type of class was he teaching?     gs  I applauded his candor. He was a Prof of Clinical Medicine at UCLA

Medical

School and it was a CEU course called "Calm Before the Storm" dealing with diagnostic trees to help determine what initial symptoms may mean. He was the one who issued the warning (as has been cited to this

newsgroup)

about the over use of thyroid medications and the threat of this being an osteoporosis-cofactor. It was in response to a question from the audience about some reasons for thyroid medications that he offered this insight about (I gather in the trade) it being used as a "get out of my office" prescription.      If one knows medical professionals, this is not an unheard of phenomena. Don’t be too shocked to hear this. Like HRT, thyroid

medications

have been given for everything from "corns to unhappy marriages." This is how -some- doctors see both drugs and patients. Some patients with collections of symptoms which defy medical common sense can demand the doctor "do something", so he/she hands out what he/she thinks is a benign drug of little consequence. A placebo naturally would be a better choice, but for a long time "hypo-thyroid" was the disease du jour, and the prescriptions got written. Too many people still insist their weight problems are "thyroid problems" and hence this desire for a prescription

for

those resistent to the exploration of mind/body over-eating issues.   I don’t hear "hypo-thyroid" being talked about as much as it once was a while back (in the US), but those prescriptions probably just kept getting renewed and now comes the morbid harvest of the osteoporosis threat.   So the campaign from the medical profession has been to try and get

women

off …until now hearing about putting them on a second drug ..Evista….instead to try and make up for the first level of iatrogenic drug abuse.     Or the real black-helicopter speculation is that this whole thyroid-osteo threat has been concocted by Evista to boost their decidely lagging sales …..and since Evista causes hot flashes …enter our good friends W/A with their lagging Premarin sales …….well, you know the picture…..  Final analysis, no the guy was not a quack ….he was a truth teller and

we

need to encourage more of that in medicine. After all no one seems to know why really so many USA thyroid glands have gone so bad to make Synthroid

the

2nd leading selling US drug. Maybe, just maybe it was bad prescribing protocol …and women insisting they had "hypothyroid" weight problems……maybe? J

Just because some *quacks* decide that thyroid medication is just what someone needed, doesn’t mean it is being over prescribed as a whole. Anyone that would prescribe thyroid medication, or any other medication, just to please a patient, is a QUACK! You and I seem to run into different types of doctors. I have had more problems with dentists, than I have had with doctors. It just amazes me how much more *you* know than the professionals. Everything comes back to hormones, what a vicious circle.   How come no one else figures this out?  gs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

So we’ll now assume all Dr’s are like that dud? — Carol… Q. What do they call "Hee Haw" in Tennessee? A. A documentary. ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~

Response:

<droz…@home.com

wrote in message news:38d9b40c.37243615@news… On 23 Mar 2000 05:26:57 GMT, mpitc2…@aol.comnospam (MPitc2000) wrote: New Study Shows Twice as Many Americans May Suffer from Undiagnosed

Thyroid

Disease I don’t think that anyone on asm has ever said that undiagnosed thryroid disease was not a problem.

It has been asked on asm what is going wrong with so many *women’s* thyroid, that Syntroid is the number two drug. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Largest-Ever Prevalence Study Links Mildest Forms of Hypothyroidism to Increases in Cholesterol; Exposes Need for More Widespread Thyroid

Testing

DENVER, Feb. 27 /PRNewswire/ — The largest study to date evaluating the prevalence of thyroid disease indicates there may be more than 13 million Americans who are unaware they have a thyroid condition even though the

disease

may be impacting their short- and long-term health. For the original study article in the Feb 28 2000 Archives of Internal Medicine online see: http://archinte.ama-assn.org/issues/v160n4/full/ioi90027.html The Colorado Thyroid Disease Prevalence Study Gay J. Canaris [ et al ] [ small quote  ] Results from this study also highlighted the large number of patients taking thyroid hormones who were not in the therapeutic range. Clinicians may therefore consider monitoring patients on thyroid replacement more frequently. 40% of those on thyroid medications in fact. Why?. Overtreatment could be one part of this and that is what all the commotion was about on asm recently. Kathryn droz…@home.com

It is saying that patients on thyroid medication need to be monitored closer.  Too many are given the medication, and doctors think it will magically bring them to the proper level. Therefore, the study is pointing out the need to monitor these patients closely, too much or too little medication is a problem.   gs

Response:

I don’t know the reason behind it, but women are much more likely than men to have auto-immune disorders, one of which is a thyroid (either hypo or hyper) condition.  Auto-immune disorders also tend to show up in clumps. For example, I am hyperthyroid (although am okay on Tapazole) & have Raynaud’s Disease; also have many allergies, which is also considered an auto-immune disorder.  Cathy Joan Livingston <joan.livingst…@gte.net

wrote in message

news:8OqC4.499$8S6.36818@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

With this drug-company funded study, again I ask, "what goes wrong with so many US thyroids, and why mostly women’s thyroids? Is a drug company funded study the best source of information on this

topic?

Is there an inherent conflict of interests when you read the full details

of > this study and not just the sound-byte conclusions? > J > gs <he…@rest.net

wrote in message

> news:F8283FE2FB053104.05354E0CC086F810.E9D6F48694D58EFE@lp.airnews.net… > > <droz…@home.com> wrote in message news:38d9b40c.37243615@news… > > > On 23 Mar 2000 05:26:57 GMT, mpitc2…@aol.comnospam (MPitc2000) > > > wrote: > > > >New Study Shows Twice as Many Americans May Suffer from Undiagnosed > > Thyroid > > > >Disease > > > I don’t think that anyone on asm has ever said that undiagnosed > > > thryroid disease was not a problem. > > It has been asked on asm what is going wrong with so many *women’s* > thyroid, > > that Syntroid is the number two drug. > > > >Largest-Ever Prevalence Study Links Mildest Forms of Hypothyroidism to

Increases in Cholesterol; Exposes Need for More Widespread Thyroid Testing DENVER, Feb. 27 /PRNewswire/ — The largest study to date evaluating the prevalence of thyroid disease indicates there may be more than 13 million Americans who are unaware they have a thyroid condition even though

the

disease may be impacting their short- and long-term health. For the original study article in the Feb 28 2000 Archives of Internal Medicine online see: http://archinte.ama-assn.org/issues/v160n4/full/ioi90027.html The Colorado Thyroid Disease Prevalence Study Gay J. Canaris [ et al ] [ small quote  ] Results from this study also highlighted the large number of patients taking thyroid hormones who were not in the therapeutic range. Clinicians may therefore consider monitoring patients on thyroid replacement more frequently. 40% of those on thyroid medications in fact. Why?. Overtreatment could be one part of this and that is what all the commotion was about on asm recently. Kathryn droz…@home.com It is saying that patients on thyroid medication need to be monitored closer.  Too many are given the medication, and doctors think it will magically bring them to the proper level. Therefore, the study is

pointing

out the need to monitor these patients closely, too much or too little medication is a problem.   gs

Response:

"

"~ Windsong ~" <Fishh…@hotcom.net wrote in message news:2RyC4.3247$Og6.705832@tw12.nn.bcandid.com… Joan Livingston <joan.livingst…@gte.net wrote in message news:UYxC4.796$QJ3.170052@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net…   Or what the doctor teaching a course said about giving out thryoid medications is that they were used  as "get out of my office" prescriptions.

It makes me wonder about the *credibility* of this doctor.  What type of class was he teaching?     gs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

So we’ll now assume all Dr’s are like that dud? — Carol… Q. What do they call "Hee Haw" in Tennessee? A. A documentary. ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~

Response:

"~ Windsong ~" <Fishh…@hotcom.net

wrote in message

news:2RyC4.3247$Og6.705832@tw12.nn.bcandid.com… > Joan Livingston <joan.livingst…@gte.net

wrote in message

> news:UYxC4.796$QJ3.170052@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net… > >   Or what the doctor teaching a course said about giving out thryoid > > medications is that they were used  as "get out of my office" > prescriptions. > ============ > So we’ll now assume all Dr’s are like that dud? > — > Carol… > Q. What do they call "Hee Haw" in Tennessee? > A. A documentary. > ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~ @{ ~~~

Actually, this doctor was an ass!  That is a stupid statement for anyone to make, let alone a doctor.  Showed his true colors! Sounds like he just wants to make money.  gs

Response:

Unfortunately, this is the way older adult’s healthcare is managed.  That is another area that has been lacking in health studies, older adults. Everytime there is a new symptom, or illness, a new pill is added. I’ve never understood how doctors can’t figure out that many pills can’t possibly be good for anyone.  Think of the possibility of side effects! Gail, I am sorry about your loss.  gs "Gail Gillespie" <gail…@mindspring.com

wrote in message

news:38DA53A9.1A5D@mindspring.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Joan’s speculative scenario about drug-layering really rang a bell with me! At the time of my mother’s death from breast cancer last month she was taking 21 different medications (including synthroid, by the way…her thyroid had been destroyed by radiation about 11 years ago.) Her breast cancer had been diagnosed in 1972 and since then she was in and out of the hospital for chemo, radiation and reconstructive surgeries countless times. (Actually, I am going amuse myself by counting some of these things- creating a chronology of her trials…I just received all her medical records and her calendars back to the mid-70s.) Each surgery or treatment generated a host of auxillary drugs to deal with the myriad symptoms created by the treatment or surgery, increasing the drugs geometrically. She rarely left a doctor – she had 7 at the time of her death- with fewer medications than she was taking when she entered the doctor’s office. My response to this is perhaps a bit extreme, but it was one employed by my healthy great grandmothers: take no pills! -Gail

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<droz…@home.com

wrote in message news:38da72a7.5017620@news… On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:21:58 -0500, Robert Ames <am…@bellsouth.net wrote: .  It does NOT mean that medication is being given unnecessarily, which is what you are implying. Not just implying, the article said: These data show that there is an excess of patients who are not in the normal range of thyroid function. Such patients may be at risk for organic consequences of overtreatment or undertreatment or (in the case of those with suppressed TSH levels) may be taking thyroid  hormones for reasons other than replacement. Tell me what are these **necessary** reasons for taking thyroid hormones other than as replacement? Feeling good? Weight loss?

  Or what the doctor teaching a course said about giving out thryoid medications is that they were used  as "get out of my office" prescriptions. J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Kathryn droz…@home.com

Response:

"Joan Livingston" <joan.livingst…@gte.net

wrote in message

news:UYxC4.796$QJ3.170052@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

<droz…@home.com wrote in message news:38da72a7.5017620@news… On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:21:58 -0500, Robert Ames <am…@bellsouth.net wrote: .  It does NOT mean that medication is being given unnecessarily, which is what you are implying. Not just implying, the article said: These data show that there is an excess of patients who are not in the normal range of thyroid function. Such patients may be at risk for organic consequences of overtreatment or undertreatment or (in the case of those with suppressed TSH levels) may be taking thyroid  hormones for reasons other than replacement. Tell me what are these **necessary** reasons for taking thyroid hormones other than as replacement? Feeling good? Weight loss?   Or what the doctor teaching a course said about giving out thryoid medications is that they were used  as "get out of my office"

prescriptions.

J Kathryn droz…@home.com

If a doctor prescribes a drug, such as synthroid, as a *get out of my office*, or a *feel good* , medicine, that is malpractice. In my experience with doctors, they rarely want to prescribe anything, except antidepressants. The study only has the one sentence talking about taking thyroid medication for reasons other than replacement.  It isn’t mentioned anywhere else.  This is a study based on people filling out a questionnaire.  Not the most reliable of studies.  I would like to know for what other reasons someone would take thyroid. Other than…to feel good. I was disappointed that it didn’t mention other reasons.  gs

Response:

"Eva D. Struction" <EvaDSt…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:QInC4.16697$iP.1163293@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net…

Joan Livingston wrote in message … Uhhhh.. …………does one expect any other result from a study funded

by

Knoll Pharaceuticals – the makers of Synthroid? (Synthroid, the second largest selling drug in the US – supplemental thyroid medication)  Check ‘em out on the web. ——— See, this is what I was just saying.  *Any* time you see the word "undertreated," it’s a red flag.  It tells you there is a very high likelihood a drug company is trying to snag new customers.

All I can say is my Mom died from undiagnosed thyroid problem.  It is a very real health concern.  Especially for older women.  I think people should read studies, and then question their doctors.  It is a very REAL problem. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Now this article particularly interests me because of my co-worker who’s taking Synthroid and has now been given Evista to prevent the Synthroid

from

giving her osteoporosis. I asked her why she was taking Synthroid in the first place, and she said she’d had no symptoms, but was put on it after a blood test showed she was mildly hypothyroid.  She said the doctor told her that the thyroid gland "just deteriorates with age."  (She was in her 40s at the time, is now

52.)

I asked her why she was given Evista rather than Fosamax, and she said "My doctor said Evista is better than Fosamax because it also lowers your bad cholesterol."  When I asked her that question, I hadn’t read this article yet and didn’t realize that the Synthroid itself is supposed to be

lowering

her cholesterol. But I checked the PDR.  I found that Evista increases the risk of ovarian cancer (in rats, no data on humans yet) and the risk of abnormal blood

clot

formation.  Fosamax doesn’t have any such dangerous risks, although the

way

you have to *take* Fosamax is a big pain in the butt. I find this all very interesting. Eva

Sounds like your friend needs to get active in her healthcare.  Symptoms of thyroid disease often go unnoticed because they are so symptoms of various other conditions….perimenopause and menopause for example. Maybe you should *encourage* your friend to question her doctor and the choice of medication.     gs

Response:

I remembered the medical term for the type of coma , Myxedema Coma. Myxedema is severe hypothyroidism. FYI….my posts contain several spelling errors.  Disregard them…thanks. gs .

Response:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:21:58 -0500, Robert Ames <am…@bellsouth.net

wrote:

.  It does NOT mean that medication is being given unnecessarily, which is what you are implying.

Not just implying, the article said:

These data show that there is an excess of patients who are not in the normal range of thyroid function. Such patients may be at risk for organic consequences of overtreatment or undertreatment or (in the case of those with suppressed TSH levels) may be taking thyroid  hormones for reasons other than replacement.

Tell me what are these **necessary** reasons for taking thyroid hormones other than as replacement? Feeling good? Weight loss? Kathryn droz…@home.com

Response:

Joan’s speculative scenario about drug-layering really rang a bell with me! At the time of my mother’s death from breast cancer last month she was taking 21 different medications (including synthroid, by the way…her thyroid had been destroyed by radiation about 11 years ago.) Her breast cancer had been diagnosed in 1972 and since then she was in and out of the hospital for chemo, radiation and reconstructive surgeries countless times. (Actually, I am going amuse myself by counting some of these things- creating a chronology of her trials…I just received all her medical records and her calendars back to the mid-70s.) Each surgery or treatment generated a host of auxillary drugs to deal with the myriad symptoms created by the treatment or surgery, increasing the drugs geometrically. She rarely left a doctor – she had 7 at the time of her death- with fewer medications than she was taking when she entered the doctor’s office. My response to this is perhaps a bit extreme, but it was one employed by my healthy great grandmothers: take no pills! -Gail

Response:

Uhhhh.. …………does one expect any other result from a study funded by Knoll Pharaceuticals – the makers of Synthroid? (Synthroid, the second largest selling drug in the US – supplemental thyroid medication)  Check ‘em out on the web. J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<droz…@home.com

wrote in message news:38d9b40c.37243615@news… On 23 Mar 2000 05:26:57 GMT, mpitc2…@aol.comnospam (MPitc2000) wrote: New Study Shows Twice as Many Americans May Suffer from Undiagnosed

Thyroid

Disease I don’t think that anyone on asm has ever said that undiagnosed thryroid disease was not a problem. Largest-Ever Prevalence Study Links Mildest Forms of Hypothyroidism to Increases in Cholesterol; Exposes Need for More Widespread Thyroid

Testing

DENVER, Feb. 27 /PRNewswire/ — The largest study to date evaluating the prevalence of thyroid disease indicates there may be more than 13 million Americans who are unaware they have a thyroid condition even though the

disease

may be impacting their short- and long-term health. For the original study article in the Feb 28 2000 Archives of Internal Medicine online see: http://archinte.ama-assn.org/issues/v160n4/full/ioi90027.html The Colorado Thyroid Disease Prevalence Study Gay J. Canaris [ et al ] [ small quote  ] Results from this study also highlighted the large number of patients taking thyroid hormones who were not in the therapeutic range. Clinicians may therefore consider monitoring patients on thyroid replacement more frequently. 40% of those on thyroid medications in fact. Why?. Overtreatment could be one part of this and that is what all the commotion was about on asm recently. Kathryn droz…@home.com

Response:

New Study Shows Twice as Many Americans May Suffer from Undiagnosed Thyroid Disease Largest-Ever Prevalence Study Links Mildest Forms of Hypothyroidism to   Increases in Cholesterol; Exposes Need for More Widespread Thyroid Testing  DENVER, Feb. 27 /PRNewswire/ — The largest study to date evaluating the prevalence of thyroid disease indicates there may be more than 13 million Americans who are unaware they have a thyroid condition even though the disease may be impacting their short- and long-term health.  This is double the previously suspected number of undiagnosed cases in the United States, according to data published in today’s Archives of Internal Medicine. The study also found that even the slightest decrease in thyroid function may increase cholesterol levels, possibly increasing a patient’s risk for cardiovascular disease.  This link between the early stages of underactive thyroid ("subclinical" hypothyroidism) and cholesterol levels provides evidence that untreated patients may experience serious negative health consequences. As thyroid function declined, the study found, patients reported more symptoms.  But, while there was a positive association between the proportion of symptoms reported and progressive thyroid failure, this distinction was not as clear as would have been expected.  In addition, no one symptom was a clear indicator of thyroid failure. "The link between all stages of hypothyroidism and cardiovascular health, and the vague correlation between symptoms and disease state, points to the need for more widespread thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) testing and more aggressive treatment, especially for subclinical patients," said E. Chester Ridgway, MD, head of the Division of Endocrinology at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center. Study Findings   The study was conducted to determine:  the prevalence of abnormal thyroid function;  the relationship between thyroid function and lipid levels;  and the connection between thyroid failure and the presence of symptoms. Prevalence   The study found that of the 25,862 participants, 11.7 percent had abnormal serum TSH levels.  Evaluating incidence according to over- and underactive thyroid cases, 2,450 patients or 9.5 percent had an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism) and 570 or 2.2 percent of the population had an overactive thyroid (hyperthyroidism). "Surprisingly, the prevalence of hypothyroidism was higher than expected," Dr. Ridgway said.  "Based on previous data, we suspected five to ten percent of the population had a failing thyroid gland.  But these results here showed that hypothyroid prevalence was on the higher end — closer to 10 percent." Among patients not taking thyroid medication, 8.9 percent were hypothyroid and 1.1 percent were hyperthyroid.  This indicates 9.9 percent of the population had a thyroid abnormality that had most likely gone unrecognized. When extrapolated to account for national demographics, there may be 13 million Americans with an undiagnosed thyroid condition. The percentage of patients with hypothyroidism was greater for women for each decade of age after age 34. Thyroid Disease & Cholesterol   A higher proportion of clinically hypothyroid patients had elevated total cholesterol levels as compared to those with normal thyroid function.  While it has been known for decades that overt hypothyroidism contributes to elevated cholesterol levels, this is the largest study to show that the cholesterol levels among patients with mildly decreased thyroid function were significantly higher than the cholesterol levels in euthyroid patients. Average total cholesterol levels for patients with overt hypothyroidism were 251 mg/dL and the average total cholesterol levels for subclinical hypothyroid patients were 224 mg/dL — both above 200 mg/dL, the marker used to indicate elevated cholesterol levels that warrant medical attention. Because the connection between hypothyroidism and cholesterol is so clear, the National Cholesterol Education Program and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration recommend thyroid testing in patients with high cholesterol levels. "This study was novel in that it drew a clearer connection between mild or early stages of thyroid failure and its effect on cholesterol levels," Dr. Ridgway said.  "It showed that as the thyroid gland fails and less thyroid hormone is produced, blood cholesterol levels rise.  This has serious long-term consequences for the patient’s health particularly in the area of cardiovascular disease." Symptoms Scales as Indicators to Thyroid Disease   Overt hypothyroid patients reported a greater percentage of symptoms than did the subclinically hypothyroid group.  Both overt and subclinical patients reported more total symptoms than euthyroid individuals.  But no one symptom was a predictor of thyroid failure.  While there was an increase in the likelihood of thyroid disease as the number of reported symptoms increased, these symptoms are often vague and develop slowly so they go un-noticed. "Thyroid symptoms are so common and are often mistaken for signs of aging, menopause, depression or stress," said Gay Canaris, MD, assistant professor of internal medicine, University of Nebraska Medical Center.  "Since we can’t rely upon reported symptoms alone to detect disease, we as physicians should be conducting more thyroid testing." Study Design   This cross-sectional study evaluated the largest-ever patient population. Participants were solicited from the annual statewide health symposium in Colorado which provides testing for hypertension, colon cancer, glaucoma and skin cancer.  In 1995, sensitive tests of thyroid function were added to the panel of blood analyses, and a questionnaire for hypothyroid symptoms was included with the survey.   Demographics and thyroid function analyses for 25,862 patients, representing 111 sites, were quantified and reported in this study. The Thyroid Health Survey included a symptoms questionnaire that evaluated traditional thyroid symptoms and asked the patient to further identify each symptom as "current" (present at the time of the survey) or "changed" (symptom that emerged within the past year).  A symptom index was calculated in the manner of Billewicz et al.  The survey also included questions on personal history, family history and demographics. Serum TSH concentrations were measured by third-generation immunochemiluminescent assay.  Normal range was a TSH level between 0.3 and 5.1 mIU/L, subclinical hypothyroidism was characterized by an elevated TSH level (greater than 5.1 mIU/L) and a normal T4, and overt hypothyroidism was evaluated as an elevated TSH level (greater than 10.0 mIU/L) and a decreased T4. The Critical Role of the Thyroid Gland   The thyroid gland plays a vital role in overall body function during all stages of life. Although relatively small, it produces a hormone that influences every cell, tissue and organ in the body.  The thyroid regulates the body’s metabolism — the rate at which the body produces energy from nutrients — and affects heart rate, energy and mood.  If a person has normal thyroid function, they are considered to be euthyroid. When the thyroid gland is not working properly, it can become either underactive (resulting in hypothyridism) or overactive (resulting in hyperthyroidism).  Signs and symptoms of an underactive thyroid include fatigue, depression, forgetfulness, unexplained weight gain, and menstrual irregularities.  An overactive thyroid is marked by irritability/nervousness, sleep disturbances, unexplained weight loss, muscle weakness and vision problems.  If left untreated, thyroid disease may lead to an increased risk for heart disease, osteoporosis and infertility. Thyroid disease can strike anyone at any time, but is more common in women. One woman in eight will develop a thyroid disorder during her lifetime. Incidence also increase with age — by age 60, more than 20 percent of American women will have a thyroid disorder. Thyroid disease can be diagnosed through a simple blood test called a TSH (third generation thyroid stimulating hormone).  Once diagnosed, hypothyroidism can be treated with a synthetic hormone replacement tablet (levothyroxine sodium tablets, USP), taken once-a-day. SOURCE  University of Colorado   CO:  University of Colorado ST:  Colorado IN:  HEA MTC SU: 02/27/2000 15:00 EST http://www.prnewswire.com

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On 23 Mar 2000 05:26:57 GMT, mpitc2…@aol.comnospam (MPitc2000) wrote:

New Study Shows Twice as Many Americans May Suffer from Undiagnosed Thyroid Disease

I don’t think that anyone on asm has ever said that undiagnosed thryroid disease was not a problem.

Largest-Ever Prevalence Study Links Mildest Forms of Hypothyroidism to   Increases in Cholesterol; Exposes Need for More Widespread Thyroid Testing DENVER, Feb. 27 /PRNewswire/ — The largest study to date evaluating the prevalence of thyroid disease indicates there may be more than 13 million Americans who are unaware they have a thyroid condition even though the disease may be impacting their short- and long-term health.  

For the original study article in the Feb 28 2000 Archives of Internal Medicine online see: http://archinte.ama-assn.org/issues/v160n4/full/ioi90027.html

The Colorado Thyroid Disease Prevalence Study   Gay J. Canaris [ et al ]

[ small quote  ]

Results from this study also highlighted the large number of patients taking thyroid hormones who were not in the therapeutic range. Clinicians may therefore consider monitoring patients on thyroid replacement more frequently.

40% of those on thyroid medications in fact. Why?. Overtreatment could be one part of this and that is what all the commotion was about on asm recently. Kathryn droz…@home.com

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Question:

Good point as well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – oooh,,, nwarrior, you were doing so well…. instead of adding that last part, you could have just said "be well" or something.. before you post, ask yourself WWJS (what would Jesus say) would he say something like this? Will this statement help your reputation as a giver and a helper? Please be aware that these is a contingent of nasty people in this group who are totally closed minded and resort to verbal violence and warfare tactics to keep these kind of posts out. I on the other hand welcome you in. please ask questions, and share. If the locusts come around, just ignore them.

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Now you are stirring the shit in yet another thread.   STOP IT!!! Just STOP IT!!!!!!

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Which foods do you find as the biggest culprits, according to people you have talked to and research? I would be very interested to know.  Is it the refined foods, the dairy, the tomato family?  I think a food diary is an excellent idea. Thanks, Heather

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No spam – I understand so I won’t mention any names unless you mail me privately for information.  Let me tell you my story. For 10 years, I’ve been hypothyroid, chronic fatigue and chronic pain. I’m married with 2 kids during this time and it was pure hell just getting through the days!  I was sleeping 16 hours a day, in pain all the time especially the hips!  Rheumatoid arthritis runs in the family and so does hypothroid and the two have been linked by studies – go figure!!  I’ve been to Dr’s, gone on DR strike and went back again -it’s always a battle.  "There’s nothing wrong, my TSH is normal"  The implication is that "it’s all in your head"!  No, I want to scream, it’s all over my body!!! What’s changed??  I feel better, I sleep 9-11 hours a day, I have energy and stamina;  I feel like I have a life again.  Why??  I’ve been taking glyconutrients for 6 months.  Did they work right away?? No  I was told it could take up to 12 months to see real results.  I’ve seen enought in 6 months to start telling everyone I know.  I want everyone who has ever suffered to see if this stuff will work for them.  Can I promise it will??  No way!  Will it work for everyone?? No  Has it worked for many?? Yes  It’s a new science of working within the body to boost the immune system so we can effectively fight off disease.  I could go on, but I won’t because I’m sure you get what I’m saying.  If * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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No advertising is permitted on this news group.   Despite what you say this is an advertisment.  You are being reported to your isp. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

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Let me get this straight. You seem to have just been lazy and slept to much for the past ten years. All doctors told you there  was nothing wrong with you and that you had mental problems. Now you are selling a vitamin supplement and want us to buy it  because it cured your mental problems and so you are sure it will cure RA and might make you money without working so you can go back to laying in bed 16 hours a day…Is that right? Ken Mc

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Dssnorwalk wrote Let me get this straight. You seem to have just been lazy and slept to much for the past ten years. All doctors told you there  was nothing wrong with you and that you had mental problems.

Now Kenny, Be Nice! : ) I totally agree that if this person is selling something they shouldn’t talk about it here, but a lot of us have been told it’s all in our heads, only to end up with a diagnosis of RA or thyroid problems.  Chronic fatigue, family history of RA, and thyroid symptoms are not all in the head.  Been there, done that and with little kids to raise too.  Liz G

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I have not noticed a large improvement when adjusting my diet.  I am interested in exploring this more, as there are a number of books out there singing the praises of RA controlled by diet.  Any vegetarians out there who have helped their RA by modifying their diet? I take medications (Celebrex and Plaquinil) and Fish oil and Mannatech products.  I atttribute the ability to taper off of prednisone to the Fish oil and Mannatech products – was in no position to do it prior to taking the natural products.   Still stiff in the morning and really wanting to get off of the Celebrex because of what I’ve read on this newsgroup about edema.  Best of luck! Heather

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Hi Don,  I lost some of your sites in a saved posts house cleaning. I wonder if you would mind posting other sites that you have about diet. Harv Houston,Tx – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have had  R/A from 1980. and for the past 6 yrs chronic. affecting all major joints + some smaller ones ,I am interested in hearing from people who have had relief from flare-ups by adjusting their diet i ask this because 9mnths ago i stopped eating bread of any kind and now i only get minor flare-ups.So there must be a connection . See articles listed on this page:   http://www.PaleoDiet.com/radiet.shtml Don (donwiss at panix com).

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For what it is worth, I eliminated nutrasweet and caffeine from my diet.  It didn’t help my pain a bit, but I’m going to keep them out of my diet anyway – just because. lol K.C. Washington State in the beautiful Columbia River Gorge "JBLV999" <wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have not noticed a large improvement when adjusting my diet.

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I lost some of your sites in a saved posts house cleaning. I wonder if you would mind posting other sites that you have about diet.

Hi Harv, I now have a page that lists all my other pages, though as I write this I realize that it does not list the page of links to RA and diet. See:   http://www.gluten-free.org/ Don (who’s off to add it now…)

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I am a newby on this newsgroup so please bear with me . I have had  R/A from 1980. and for the past 6 yrs chronic. affecting all major joints + some smaller ones ,I am interested in hearing from people who have had relief from flare-ups by adjusting their diet i ask this because 9mnths ago i stopped eating bread of any kind and now i only get minor flare-ups.So there must be a connection .

While trying to fix a broken link on my RA and diet page I found the below article. Unfortunately one can not easily deep link to it. The URL was (and it may or may not work): http://www.mediconsult.com/mc/mcsite.nsf/conditionnav/arthritis~resea… And the article was in the middle of a page of many articles. So here it is: December 17, 1999 Veggies and Olive Oil May Protect Against Rheumatoid Arthritis Chalk up more benefits for eating a Mediterranean diet

Question:

What are the different Thyroid tests? My Dr. does a TSH at least 2x a year but I don’t think she does any of the other tests. If you could tell me what they are I can find out if I have been given these other tests or not. If not, I will be requesting them. Something just isn’t right with me physically…I exercise regularly and eat reasonably and still gain weight (or not able to lose despite dedicated effort) , I fight the blues off and on (more on than not) I don’t seem to have the engery that I should have… the list goes on. I would appreciate any info about the different tests too! Thanks

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for your post Jet, My pleasure. I have done some reading on prozac, and as far as drugs that are contradicted by it, the big ones are MAO inhibitors.  As far as I can find out, ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin do not fall into this category. Is this correct? No, they don’t. Some doctors are using a phen/pro combination, or so I have heard. I don’t think I have had my thyroid tested.  Thanks for the heads up. I’ll ask my doctor when I go later this week. Ask for a full thyroid work up, and not just a TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) test. J

Response:

Thanks for your post Jet,

My pleasure. I have done some reading on prozac, and as far as drugs that are contradicted by it, the big ones are MAO inhibitors.  As far as I can find out, ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin do not fall into this category.  Is this correct?

No, they don’t. Some doctors are using a phen/pro combination, or so I have heard. I don’t think I have had my thyroid tested.  Thanks for the heads up. I’ll ask my doctor when I go later this week.

Ask for a full thyroid work up, and not just a TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) test. J

Response:

What are the names of other Thyroid tests? I have had TSH test done and all looks good, BUT I don’t ‘feel’ right. I exercise regularly, watch what I eat and still gain weight (or unable to lose) and have off and on (more on) bouts of the blues. My Dr. does a TSH every time she sees me but I don’t know if she is doing any of the other Thyroid tests or not. If I know what those tests are than I can ask her if they’ve been done and if they haven’t request them to be done. Thanks!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for your post Jet, My pleasure. I have done some reading on prozac, and as far as drugs that are contradicted by it, the big ones are MAO inhibitors.  As far as I can find out, ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin do not fall into this category. Is this correct? No, they don’t. Some doctors are using a phen/pro combination, or so I have heard. I don’t think I have had my thyroid tested.  Thanks for the heads up. I’ll ask my doctor when I go later this week. Ask for a full thyroid work up, and not just a TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) test. J

Response:

Thanks for your post Jet, I have done some reading on prozac, and as far as drugs that are contradicted by it, the big ones are MAO inhibitors.  As far as I can find out, ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin do not fall into this category.  Is this correct? I don’t think I have had my thyroid tested.  Thanks for the heads up.  I’ll ask my doctor when I go later this week. Terry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 3.  I am also on prozak.  Is this a concern while stacking ECA? Hmmmm…hard to say. What drugs are contradicted with Prozac? Have you had your thyroid tested? A hypothyroid can lead to both depression and obesity. J

Response:

Hi all, I am 5′ 10” tall and weigh about 210 lbs (would like to be at 160). I have 2 questions for anyone who has any insight: 1.  When taking the ECA stack, is there any difference between taking natural ephedrine vs. pseudoephedrine?

Ephedrine and pseudoephedirne are two different chemicals with different effects on the body. AFAIK, pseudoephedrine does not promote fat loss. And, natural and man made ephedrine are the exact same chemical. Your body can’t tell the difference, because there is none. 2.  I am also thinking about taking pyruvate to try to provide an additional boost to my metabolism.  Are there any problems with taking the ECA stack and pyruvate at the same time?

IMHO, pyruvate is a waste of money. But other than the expense, I don’t know of any problems, however, I think it is best to err on the side of caution. 3.  I am also on prozak.  Is this a concern while stacking ECA?

Hmmmm…hard to say. What drugs are contradicted with Prozac? Have you had your thyroid tested? A hypothyroid can lead to both depression and obesity. J

Response:

Hi all, I am 5′ 10” tall and weigh about 210 lbs (would like to be at 160). I have 2 questions for anyone who has any insight: 1.  When taking the ECA stack, is there any difference between taking natural ephedrine vs. pseudoephedrine? 2.  I am also thinking about taking pyruvate to try to provide an additional boost to my metabolism.  Are there any problems with taking the ECA stack and pyruvate at the same time? 3.  I am also on prozak.  Is this a concern while stacking ECA? Thanks in advance for any info you can provide. Terry

Response:

     I would do the temperature test and get the complete thyroid blood panel done BEFORE taking anything that would affect the thyroid. But that is me.  I always like to read at least three references before making any changes.  YMMV Lee Rodgers Also, L-tyrosine, iodine (kelp) and guggulsterones may also be used to stimulate a sluggish thyroid.  At least it may be worth looking into for more information.  HTH Would the above suggestion be only advisable if one has already gotten a DX for  a Hypothyroid? OR would it be safe if one suspected a problem with their thyroid?

LOSE weight for LOOSE jeans.  LOSERS have LOOSER jeans. "I have to say, if your mind weren’t so narrow, your waist would be." Dr. A Read the FAQ jack   http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc The Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org Lowcarb Cookbooks   http://members.tripod.com/Dietman2/cook_bks.html

Response:

Also, L-tyrosine, iodine (kelp) and guggulsterones may also be used to stimulate a sluggish thyroid.  At least it may be worth looking into for more information.  HTH

Would the above suggestion be only advisable if one has already gotten a DX for  a Hypothyroid? OR would it be safe if one suspected a problem with their thyroid?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It may be helpful to do a Barnes thyroid temperature test for several weeks to have more ammunition when discussing hypothyroid with the doctor. Also, L-tyrosine, iodine (kelp) and guggulsterones may also be used to stimulate a sluggish thyroid.  At least it may be worth looking into for more information.  HTH http://members.tripod.com/~Dietman2/thyroid1.html Lee Rodgers Owner Atkins-New mailing list Glad you asked, I was wondering the same thing! My TSH is ALWAYS normal but my Dr. keeps testing me thinking we might find something unusual at sometime to account for what is going on. I have a feeling since my TSH is always normal that the Dr. never felt necessary to try the other Thyroid tests. LOSE weight for LOOSE jeans.  LOSERS have LOOSER jeans. "I have to say, if your mind weren’t so narrow, your waist would be." Dr. A Read the FAQ jack   http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc The Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org Lowcarb Cookbooks   http://members.tripod.com/Dietman2/cook_bks.html

Response:

It may be helpful to do a Barnes thyroid temperature test for several weeks to have more ammunition when discussing hypothyroid with the doctor.   Also, L-tyrosine, iodine (kelp) and guggulsterones may also be used to stimulate a sluggish thyroid.  At least it may be worth looking into for more information.  HTH http://members.tripod.com/~Dietman2/thyroid1.html Lee Rodgers Owner Atkins-New mailing list Glad you asked, I was wondering the same thing! My TSH is ALWAYS normal but my Dr. keeps testing me thinking we might find something unusual at sometime to account for what is going on. I have a feeling since my TSH is always normal that the Dr. never felt necessary to try the other Thyroid tests.

LOSE weight for LOOSE jeans.  LOSERS have LOOSER jeans. "I have to say, if your mind weren’t so narrow, your waist would be." Dr. A Read the FAQ jack   http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc The Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org Lowcarb Cookbooks   http://members.tripod.com/Dietman2/cook_bks.html

Response:

Glad you asked, I was wondering the same thing! My TSH is ALWAYS normal but my Dr. keeps testing me thinking we might find something unusual at sometime to account for what is going on. I have a feeling since my TSH is always normal that the Dr. never felt necessary to try the other Thyroid tests.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are also tests for free thyroid hormone. (T3 and T4) I suffered needlessly for years until I found a doc with enough smarts to run those tests. My TSH hormone tests always came out normal. J  Jet, Just curious…. In spite of having normal TSH hormone test results, did your doc still think there may have been a problem somewhere? Did you have any low-thyroid symptoms? Did he/she prescribe a low dosage of Synthroid or any other thyroid med? I’m going through a similar experience. That’s why I ask. Thanks, CB ——

Response:

There are also tests for free thyroid hormone. (T3 and T4) I suffered needlessly for years until I found a doc with enough smarts to run those tests. My TSH hormone tests always came out normal. J

 Jet, Just curious…. In spite of having normal TSH hormone test results, did your doc still think there may have been a problem somewhere? Did you have any low-thyroid symptoms? Did he/she prescribe a low dosage of Synthroid or any other thyroid med? I’m going through a similar experience. That’s why I ask. Thanks, CB ——

Response:

What are the different Thyroid tests? My Dr. does a TSH at least 2x a year but I don’t think she does any of the other tests.

There are also tests for free thyroid hormone. (T3 and T4) I suffered needlessly for years until I found a doc with enough smarts to run those tests. My TSH hormone tests always came out normal. J

Response:

Question:

I just got home from my appointment for a check-up.  You may remember that I was going in there with three primary concerns 1) fatigue 2) weight loss 3)libido.  Well, as it turns out she was far more concerned with the fatigue and libido than with the weight loss (that seems only natural).   Now I’m off to the hospital lab to have blood drawn, she is having it tested for diabetes, thyroid, anemia, and testosterone.  She spent a lot of time with me, I didn’t feel rushed at all.  We talked about many symptoms, including my moodiness, and she thinks that I have "mild" depression (which isn’t to say that she is ruling out the things that she’s checking with the blood).  She sent me home with samples of an anti-depressant which she says could also help the libido.  I have to go back for a follow-up in six weeks and she will call me when she gets the blood results. The medicine she gave me is Wellbutrin SR (bupropion hydochloride), is anyone familiar with this?  I did check with her to make sure that weight gain is not a side effect, we wouldn’t want to be counterproductive! BTW, now that I have been weighed at the doctor (with clothes on of course), do I adjust my start/current weight or do I just stick with my home scale’s results? Anyway, I’ll let you know how the blood work turns out.  Thanks for listening. Renee

Response:

Renee, I’m glad you went to see your doctor.  I don’t know anything about the medication that she’s put you on, though. As for the weight, I would probably keep my at home weight as my starting weight…but that’s just me. Good luck, and I really hope you start to feel better soon. Amanda

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got home from my appointment for a check-up.  You may remember that I was going in there with three primary concerns 1) fatigue 2) weight loss 3)libido.  Well, as it turns out she was far more concerned with the fatigue and libido than with the weight loss (that seems only natural). Now I’m off to the hospital lab to have blood drawn, she is having it tested for diabetes, thyroid, anemia, and testosterone.  She spent a lot of time with me, I didn’t feel rushed at all.  We talked about many symptoms, including my moodiness, and she thinks that I have "mild" depression (which isn’t to say that she is ruling out the things that she’s checking with the blood).  She sent me home with samples of an anti-depressant which she says could also help the libido.  I have to go back for a follow-up in six weeks and she will call me when she gets the blood results. The medicine she gave me is Wellbutrin SR (bupropion hydochloride), is anyone familiar with this?  I did check with her to make sure that weight gain is not a side effect, we wouldn’t want to be counterproductive! BTW, now that I have been weighed at the doctor (with clothes on of course), do I adjust my start/current weight or do I just stick with my home scale’s results? Anyway, I’ll let you know how the blood work turns out.  Thanks for listening. Renee

Response:

I am hoping that everything turns out ok for you. I wish I knew more about the medications you are taking, so that I could contribute with something to the cause, but i know nothing about that. I just posted to tell you that I wish you well, and I hope everything turns out ok, as I said before… Lourdes

Response:

I just got home from my appointment for a check-up.  You may remember that I was going in there with three primary concerns 1) fatigue 2) weight loss 3)libido.  Well, as it turns out she was far more concerned with the fatigue and libido than with the weight loss (that seems only natural).   Now I’m off to the hospital lab to have blood drawn, she is having it tested for diabetes, thyroid, anemia, and testosterone.  She spent a lot of time with me, I didn’t feel rushed at all.  We talked about many symptoms, including my moodiness, and she thinks that I have "mild" depression (which isn’t to say that she is ruling out the things that she’s checking with the blood).  She sent me home with samples of an anti-depressant which she says could also help the libido.  I have to go back for a follow-up in six weeks and she will call me when she gets the blood results. The medicine she gave me is Wellbutrin SR (bupropion hydochloride), is anyone familiar with this?  I did check with her to make sure that weight gain is not a side effect, we wouldn’t want to be counterproductive! BTW, now that I have been weighed at the doctor (with clothes on of course), do I adjust my start/current weight or do I just stick with my home scale’s results? Anyway, I’ll let you know how the blood work turns out.  Thanks for listening. Renee Renee,  I hope the best for you – with the tests.   I’m glad to hear that you have  a doctor that is listening to you and really trying to help you out.   That seems to be a rare find these days. As for your weight – I’d stick to what it is your home scale says – as that is what you use daily.   Otherwise, you would only get truely accurate readings when you go visit the Dr. – which I hope is very rarely. But – you can gloat if your Drs. scale said less than your home scale !!!  :) Please don’t feed the trolls……. IS Manager:  Delete the "not.at." to reply 138/132/120 Y2K Areobics 645 minutes …  I’m trying, just can’t find the time or motivation

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Wellbutrin  is the same anti-depressant that has had some success in helping smoker’s quit nicotine.   There was some hope that it would also help compulsive eaters, but to my knowledge that hasn’t panned out, however a few people did have good results losing with it.   It can make you feel quite "uggy" for the first couple of days, but that subsides.   When I used it earlier in the year it didn’t have any effect on my weight, positive or negative.   It can be helpful, so good luck! Mj – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got home from my appointment for a check-up.  You may remember that I was going in there with three primary concerns 1) fatigue 2) weight loss 3)libido.  Well, as it turns out she was far more concerned with the fatigue and libido than with the weight loss (that seems only natural). Now I’m off to the hospital lab to have blood drawn, she is having it tested for diabetes, thyroid, anemia, and testosterone.  She spent a lot of time with me, I didn’t feel rushed at all.  We talked about many symptoms, including my moodiness, and she thinks that I have "mild" depression (which isn’t to say that she is ruling out the things that she’s checking with the blood).  She sent me home with samples of an anti-depressant which she says could also help the libido.  I have to go back for a follow-up in six weeks and she will call me when she gets the blood results. The medicine she gave me is Wellbutrin SR (bupropion hydochloride), is anyone familiar with this?  I did check with her to make sure that weight gain is not a side effect, we wouldn’t want to be counterproductive! BTW, now that I have been weighed at the doctor (with clothes on of course), do I adjust my start/current weight or do I just stick with my home scale’s results? Anyway, I’ll let you know how the blood work turns out.  Thanks for listening. Renee

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Renee, I hope you have better luck with antidepressants than I did.  Many of them will actually decrease your sex drive.  I came off them because the decreased libido was actually making me more depressed.  Stay in contact with your doctor and communicate anything you have questions about. AmyRN 280/256/140 official Y2K cheerleader  (aka Bigmouth with the megaphone) and ACE wrap spokesperson!

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The medicine she gave me is Wellbutrin SR (bupropion hydochloride), is anyone familiar with this?  I did check with her to make sure that weight gain is not a side effect, we wouldn’t want to be counterproductive!

sounds familiar…i just don’t know why-sorry. BTW, now that I have been weighed at the doctor (with clothes on of course), do I adjust my start/current weight or do I just stick with my home scale’s results?

only if you want to.  it’s completely up to you; we’re not slave drivers on the number game. Julie– on the road of life, there are many speedbumps–most of them chocolate

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Renee, Try this link for info on your medication……. http://www.begin.com/redoak/medications/wellbutrin.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got home from my appointment for a check-up.  You may remember that I was going in there with three primary concerns 1) fatigue 2) weight loss 3)libido.  Well, as it turns out she was far more concerned with the fatigue and libido than with the weight loss (that seems only natural).   Now I’m off to the hospital lab to have blood drawn, she is having it tested for diabetes, thyroid, anemia, and testosterone.  She spent a lot of time with me, I didn’t feel rushed at all.  We talked about many symptoms, including my moodiness, and she thinks that I have "mild" depression (which isn’t to say that she is ruling out the things that she’s checking with the blood).  She sent me home with samples of an anti-depressant which she says could also help the libido.  I have to go back for a follow-up in six weeks and she will call me when she gets the blood results. The medicine she gave me is Wellbutrin SR (bupropion hydochloride), is anyone familiar with this?  I did check with her to make sure that weight gain is not a side effect, we wouldn’t want to be counterproductive! BTW, now that I have been weighed at the doctor (with clothes on of course), do I adjust my start/current weight or do I just stick with my home scale’s results? Anyway, I’ll let you know how the blood work turns out.  Thanks for listening. Renee

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Thanks for the link.  I sat down and read (and did my best to understand) the loooong detailed insert that came with the samples that the doctor gave me, a ton of information that appears to be written more for the medical profession than for the patients.   I went to the link you posted and found the following quote there of particular interest… "4) Has caused a weight loss of greater than 5 pounds in 28% of patients on it." Maybe I’ll be one of the 28%, but more importantly I hope it takes care of the other problems. Thanks again. Renee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Renee, Try this link for info on your medication……. http://www.begin.com/redoak/medications/wellbutrin.html

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That’s the part I thought you might like……Hope it takes care of your other problems also.   Beverly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the link.  I sat down and read (and did my best to understand) the loooong detailed insert that came with the samples that the doctor gave me, a ton of information that appears to be written more for the medical profession than for the patients.   I went to the link you posted and found the following quote there of particular interest… "4) Has caused a weight loss of greater than 5 pounds in 28% of patients on it." Maybe I’ll be one of the 28%, but more importantly I hope it takes care of the other problems. Thanks again. Renee

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I hope the bloodtest will give some answers. Hang in there. — Joke from Holland 264/228/150

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got home from my appointment for a check-up.  You may remember that I was going in there with three primary concerns 1) fatigue 2) weight loss 3)libido.  Well, as it turns out she was far more concerned with the fatigue and libido than with the weight loss (that seems only natural). Now I’m off to the hospital lab to have blood drawn, she is having it tested for diabetes, thyroid, anemia, and testosterone.  She spent a lot of time with me, I didn’t feel rushed at all.  We talked about many symptoms, including my moodiness, and she thinks that I have "mild" depression (which isn’t to say that she is ruling out the things that she’s checking with the blood).  She sent me home with samples of an anti-depressant which she says could also help the libido.  I have to go back for a follow-up in six weeks and she will call me when she gets the blood results. The medicine she gave me is Wellbutrin SR (bupropion hydochloride), is anyone familiar with this?  I did check with her to make sure that weight gain is not a side effect, we wouldn’t want to be counterproductive! BTW, now that I have been weighed at the doctor (with clothes on of course), do I adjust my start/current weight or do I just stick with my home scale’s results? Anyway, I’ll let you know how the blood work turns out.  Thanks for listening. Renee

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The medicine she gave me is Wellbutrin SR (bupropion hydochloride), is anyone familiar with this?  I did check with her to make sure that weight gain is not a side effect, we wouldn’t want to be counterproductive!

wellbutrin/zyban is the FAMOUS antidepressant used for quitting smoking! wellbutrin has been around for awhile tho, and has been used quite successfully for depression. some side effects? constipation irritability insomnia weight gain is not a common complaint, but has been reported! best of luck to you and be sure to talk to your doctor if you decide to alter how you take your medication! read and post, rosie

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Hi Renee, I’d stick with the home scale numbers. Hope your doc can track things down for you! Cynthia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got home from my appointment for a check-up.  You may remember that I was going in there with three primary concerns 1) fatigue 2) weight loss 3)libido.  Well, as it turns out she was far more concerned with the fatigue and libido than with the weight loss (that seems only natural). Now I’m off to the hospital lab to have blood drawn, she is having it tested for diabetes, thyroid, anemia, and testosterone.  She spent a lot of time with me, I didn’t feel rushed at all.  We talked about many symptoms, including my moodiness, and she thinks that I have "mild" depression (which isn’t to say that she is ruling out the things that she’s checking with the blood).  She sent me home with samples of an anti-depressant which she says could also help the libido.  I have to go back for a follow-up in six weeks and she will call me when she gets the blood results. The medicine she gave me is Wellbutrin SR (bupropion hydochloride), is anyone familiar with this?  I did check with her to make sure that weight gain is not a side effect, we wouldn’t want to be counterproductive! BTW, now that I have been weighed at the doctor (with clothes on of course), do I adjust my start/current weight or do I just stick with my home scale’s results? Anyway, I’ll let you know how the blood work turns out.  Thanks for listening. Renee

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Piggybacking here because I don’t have your original post. Sounds like you have a wonderful doc who’s checking for all the right things.  As for depression, that can also be a sign of hypothyroidism — if it turns out to be your thyroid, correcting that problem could also potentially get rid of the depression. Wellbutrin is an anti-depressant which is sold under the name Zyban for quitting smoking.  (Zyban and Wellbutrin SR are the same drug, made by the same company.)  I used it to quit smoking and found it really helped prevent the cravings and keep me from getting too cranky (though I did feel a bit "flat" when I was taking it).  One of the most common side effects that many experience is insomnia — oddly enough, I didn’t have any trouble with that, since once I quit the nicotine, my thyroid symptoms started and all I wanted to do was sleep! I know that it did help keep me from substituting food for cigarettes; I was only on it for about a month, IIRC, and gained little or no weight during that time.  (During the first 3 months that I quit smoking, I only gained 4 pounds — I was on Zyban the first month, followed by St. John’s Wort for another month or so.  In the 2 1/2 months following that — when I wasn’t taking anything other than thyroid meds — I gained 11 more pounds.) Best of luck finding the solution — sounds like you’re in good hands though! — KC (to reply by e-mail, please take out the dog) "Never discourage anyone who continually makes progress, no matter how slow." Plato. Y2K Challenge:  340/2000

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Question:

Boy, you guys talk a lot while I am not looking! I just took the first of some Midrin that my neuro- gave me because I seem to be having another migraine start up. He is asking my primary to refer me to an endocrinologist because there is reason to suspect hypothyroidism. Anyone know any good endocrinologists in the Cocoa Florida area? AKA: Bill the Galactic Hero

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Just make sure whomever you choose not only does a test for your thyroid levels but also your TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone – produced by the pituitary) Your thyroid levels may be normal, but if your TSH is even slightly too high and you have low thyroid symptoms, you may need small doses of Synthroid. Cindy – Been there, done that

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