Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Steve Green wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:30:30 -0400, Terri <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote: <snip Under the new guidelines I would have been deemed to be hypothyroid as opposed to having synthroid prescribed for mild goiter with normal functioning. I am not hypothyroid. I have no symptoms of hypothyroidism. <snip That’s the whole point. The TSH test is an imperfect indicator of whether someone needs more, less, or no medication — not much good for midrange tweaking IMO but does help identify severe problems. And, it gives doctors something they can write down and point to, so they like it :/ There are quite a few thyroid patients who manage their own doses according to symptoms and physical signs such as resting pulse rate and morning temperature among others, with the blessings of their (few) enlightened doctors. Many have eliminated their meds. Some, like me, have increased them. Some, stuck with doctors who bow only to the TSH test, are miserable. (BTW I’ve been treated with RAI twice for Graves’ Disease. I tried to avoid this but it was a roaring case with 100% uptake and eye involvement — double vision, protrusion and the whole thing — and a resting pulse of ~100 day and night. This went undiagnosed for about eighteen months until I went to my doc with fatigue and edema. I didn’t respond well to PTU, unfortunately. The docs all told me my thyroid would burn out anyway over a period of years, and the RAI would help avoid more trouble along the way. Retrospectively, I wonder if surgery would have been a better route…) Steve Green
I agree with much of what you’ve said above, although I’d like to see access to thyroid drugs restricted a bit more. I think it’s prescribed too often to deal with problems that are not really thyroid related and that lowering the "norms" is likely to increase this practice. I’m horrified to hear how often Graves is missed by doctors. This is a very serious disease that shouldn’t be that hard for a decent physician to diagnose.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Frankenmel wrote:
I have no URL for this post. It came from a friend of mine. I wish I could find the source,but here goes: "According to the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (AACE), what was normal last year, thyroid-wise, may now be abnormal. According to the AACE, doctors have typically been basing their diagnoses on the "normal" range for the TSH test. The typical normal levels at most laboratories has fallen in the 0.5 to 5.0 range. The new guidelines narrow the range for acceptable thyroid function, and the AACE is now encouraging doctors to consider thyroid treatment for patients who test the target TSH level of 0.3 to 3.04, a far narrower range. AACE believes the new range will result in proper diagnosis for millions of Americans who suffer from a mild thyroid disorder, but have gone untreated until now."
And it will result in millions more people requiring the services of endocrinologists, many of whom probably bought stock in the companies that manufacture the drugs in anticipation of this announcement. More money for them at the expense of the people who are given thyroid hormone when they don’t need it. This is especially pernicious when you consider that giving unnecessary exogenous thyroid hormone will injure the thyroid and cause hypothyroidism. Thyroid hormone used to be prescribed quite regularly for weight loss. It did a lot of damage that way and tighter controls were placed on it. Looks to me as though this is a new way to do the same thing – sell more drugs. I’m very suspicious of attempts to put more and more people into a "diseased and in need of lifelong drugs and medical care" category merely by changing the norms on a lab test. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Sharon…………A warm toll-house cookie is an experience not unlike a religious epiphany.
Response:
"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com
wrote in message
news:bisopc$i9g$1@bob.news.rcn.net…
And it will result in millions more people requiring the services of endocrinologists, many of whom probably bought stock in the
companies
that manufacture the drugs in anticipation of this announcement.
More
money for them at the expense of the people who are given thyroid hormone when they don’t need it. This is especially pernicious when
you
consider that giving unnecessary exogenous thyroid hormone will
injure
the thyroid and cause hypothyroidism.
WRONG, giving unnecessary thyroid hormone results in hypErthyroidism and/or supressed TSH . Most Dr’s don’t take into account how a person feels, they just look at the test results and see ‘within normal ref. range’ and there is quite a difference between how a person may feel with a TSH result of 0.5 and one of 5. Here’s the link to the article Sharon was talking about http://www.aace.com/pub/tam2003/press.php and another http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aanewTSHrange.htm and you may like to have a look at this site too. http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html
Thyroid hormone used to be prescribed quite regularly for weight
loss.
It did a lot of damage that way and tighter controls were placed on
it.
Looks to me as though this is a new way to do the same thing – sell
more
drugs.
So because some Dr’s prescribed inappropriately people who are ill should suffer !
I’m very suspicious of attempts to put more and more people into a "diseased and in need of lifelong drugs and medical care" category merely by changing the norms on a lab test.
If the reference range is wrong ie arrived at by using the wrong/skewed data then I don’t understand why it shouldn’t be corrected and if this means more people will recieve treatment that will make them well surely that is a good thing ? I’m guessing you don’t have a thyroid problem Terri and so don’t understand how having thyroid hormones even slightly out of your own personal ‘normal’ range can impact on your QOL. http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shirley wrote:
"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote in message news:bisopc$i9g$1@bob.news.rcn.net… And it will result in millions more people requiring the services of endocrinologists, many of whom probably bought stock in the companies that manufacture the drugs in anticipation of this announcement. More money for them at the expense of the people who are given thyroid hormone when they don’t need it. This is especially pernicious when you consider that giving unnecessary exogenous thyroid hormone will injure the thyroid and cause hypothyroidism. WRONG, giving unnecessary thyroid hormone results in hypErthyroidism and/or supressed TSH .
Initially it will cause hyperthyroid symptoms not true hyperthyroidism which is overproduction of thyroid hormone by the thyroid gland.. Once the pituitary gets the chemically altered signals from the bloodstream it secretes less TSH to signal the thyroid to secrete less hormone. Now the person is hypothyroid unless s/he takes his/her pills. The damage may be irreversible just as it may be in a similar situation with the adrenals and corisone use.
Most Dr’s don’t take into account how a person feels, they just look at the test results and see ‘within normal ref. range’ and there is quite a difference between how a person may feel with a TSH result of 0.5 and one of 5.
Now let’s talk about "subclinical hypothyroidism" the precursor to these new norms…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Here’s the link to the article Sharon was talking about http://www.aace.com/pub/tam2003/press.php and another http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aanewTSHrange.htm and you may like to have a look at this site too. http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html Thyroid hormone used to be prescribed quite regularly for weight loss. It did a lot of damage that way and tighter controls were placed on it. Looks to me as though this is a new way to do the same thing – sell more drugs. So because some Dr’s prescribed inappropriately people who are ill should suffer ! I’m very suspicious of attempts to put more and more people into a "diseased and in need of lifelong drugs and medical care" category merely by changing the norms on a lab test. If the reference range is wrong ie arrived at by using the wrong/skewed data then I don’t understand why it shouldn’t be corrected and if this means more people will recieve treatment that will make them well surely that is a good thing ?
Normal people will receive treatments that will make them dependent on drugs and doctors in response to these new levels. There’s little evidence to suggest that the levels that have been in use for decades are suddenly wrong so millions more people are now in the category of diseased people who need tteatment. When the levels of osteoporosis and heart disease rise in response to this overuse of thyroid hormone, there will be still more drugs to treat these drug-induced diseases.
I’m guessing you don’t have a thyroid problem Terri and so don’t understand how having thyroid hormones even slightly out of your own personal ‘normal’ range can impact on your QOL.
I was told I had a thyroid problem. I was told I needed thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I was prescribed thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I didn’t take the thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I took iodine .15mg a day instead for a period of several months since the mildly enlarged thyroid was the result of growing up in an area where the soil was iodine poor and as a farmer’s child I ate the food and drank the milk that was produced on the iodine poor soil and consequently had a very mild iodine deficiency goiter exacerbated by my avoidance of salt in any form for many years. I don’t have a thyroid problem. Had I taken the pills I probably would have one now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Chakolate wrote:
"Shirley" <s.holla…@ntlworld.com wrote in news:bitsra$d48gr$1@ID- 145712.news.uni-berlin.de: And you are happy with the fact that untreated/undertreated hypothyroidism causes heart failure, depression, raised cholesterol levels, gall bladder disease, gut motility problems and dementia, not to mention the myriad of drugs used to treat those conditions. Is it really a question of not treating an actual condition? It sounded like Terri’s concern is those doctors who will just look at the ‘normal’ range and prescribe, without regard for how the patient is feeling. Then people whose personal range may be a little off will be treated when they don’t need it.
Exactly. Over the past few years we’ve seen all kinds of norms tweaked a bit to put more people into the diseased and need drug and other medical treatment category. The first one was cholesterol where the "good level" has been adjusted so far down that more than 50% of people over the age of 40 now have "hyperlipidemia" and need statins. Blood glucose norms have been adjusted to include tens of millions of people into a new category called pre-diabetics who need glucometers and test strips at the bare minimum. More recently normal blood pressure has been redefined to include tens of millions who have normal blood pressure in the group who need regular monitoring by doctors and drug treatment. If I wait long enough my normal B/P of 80-90/50-60 will be hypertension. The percentage of overweight people who once again need medical supervision and medical care skyrocketed by the simple expedient of changing the numbers. One norm that should be questioned (and lowered but won’t be because lowering it will reduce drug sales) is hemoglobin which some doctors are coming to realize are set too high for men in particular and might account for their increased risk of heart disease.
When I first came here, I thought Terri’s posts were full of paranoia. More and more they sound to me like totally justifiable skepticism. Chakolate
As the old saying goes, even a paranoid *can* have real enemies who really are out to get him/her (grinning), but I think a lot more skepticism and a lot less trust in the medical industry is totally justified.
Response:
"And guess who produces synthroid…..what a surprise. Guess who produces the reageants used to test TSH and T3 and T4….right again…" Citations please. TIA. Sue Hashimoto’s thyroiditis dx 1998.
Response:
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 00:12:46 -0400, "Sue" <sdhbm…@prexar.com.net
wrote:
"And guess who produces synthroid…..what a surprise. Guess who produces the reageants used to test TSH and T3 and T4….right again…" Citations please. TIA.
I’m assuming this was directed to me as I brought Abbott Laboratories’ name into this thread. http://www.abbottdiagnostics.com/medical_conditions/thyroid/testing/l… Kathryn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Sue Hashimoto’s thyroiditis dx 1998.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -gs wrote:
"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote in message news:biu3dr$4oj$1@bob.news.rcn.net… Shirley wrote: "Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote in message news:bitu0u$p29$1@bob.news.rcn.net… Shirley wrote: "Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote in message news:bitn8g$dho$1@bob.news.rcn.net… Shirley wrote: "Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote in message news:bisopc$i9g$1@bob.news.rcn.net… snipped<<<<<< Because it’s basic physiology. It follows the rules of basic physiology…but you don’t have to believe it. I have a lot of problem with claims involving biological and physiological impossibilities. For example your statement that something that increases the risk of heart attack doesn’t increase the risk of heart failure suggests that you don’t really know what heart failure is or the underlying cause – anything that impedes the heart’s ability to pump blood which in turn leads to fluid build-up in the lung (pulmonary edema). Heart failure is actually possible in extremely advanced hypothyroidism where the heart rate and sluggish circulation combine to result in fluid build-up in the lung. However, it’s rare (I’d argue damn near impossible) for anyone to remain undiagnosed until that happens. It certainly isn’t going to happen to someone with a TSH higher than 3 but lower than 5 who isn’t being "treated." My Mom and her sister both died from the same thing. Untreated hypothyroidism. They both went into a coma. My aunt had never had her thyroid levels checked. My Mom on the other hand, had been having her levels checked for over 10 years. My Mom’s TSH had never been over 2.8. They both had all the symptoms and had for years. I have symptoms and all 3 of my kids have symptoms. The test doesn’t show us having thyroid problems…so it isn’t thyroid. Gwen
I’m not buying it. I believe you may have been told this, but I’m not buying it.
Response:
"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com
wrote in message
news:biu3dr$4oj$1@bob.news.rcn.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Shirley wrote: > > "Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com
wrote in message
> > news:bitu0u$p29$1@bob.news.rcn.net… > >>Shirley wrote: > >>>"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com
wrote in message
> >>>news:bitn8g$dho$1@bob.news.rcn.net… > >>>>Shirley wrote: > >>>>>"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com
wrote in message
> >>>>>news:bisopc$i9g$1@bob.news.rcn.net… > >>>>>snipped<<<<<< > Because it’s basic physiology. It follows the rules of basic > physiology…but you don’t have to believe it. > I have a lot of problem with claims involving biological and > physiological impossibilities. For example your statement that something > that increases the risk of heart attack doesn’t increase the risk of > heart failure suggests that you don’t really know what heart failure is > or the underlying cause – anything that impedes the heart’s ability to > pump blood which in turn leads to fluid build-up in the lung (pulmonary > edema). Heart failure is actually possible in extremely advanced > hypothyroidism where the heart rate and sluggish circulation combine to > result in fluid build-up in the lung. However, it’s rare (I’d argue damn > near impossible) for anyone to remain undiagnosed until that happens. > It certainly isn’t going to happen to someone with a TSH higher than 3 > but lower than 5 who isn’t being "treated."
My Mom and her sister both died from the same thing. Untreated hypothyroidism. They both went into a coma. My aunt had never had her thyroid levels checked. My Mom on the other hand, had been having her levels checked for over 10 years. My Mom’s TSH had never been over 2.8. They both had all the symptoms and had for years. I have symptoms and all 3 of my kids have symptoms. The test doesn’t show us having thyroid problems…so it isn’t thyroid. Gwen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
I’m guessing you don’t have a thyroid problem Terri and so don’t understand how having thyroid hormones even slightly out of your own personal ‘normal’ range can impact on your QOL. I was told I had a thyroid problem. I was told I needed thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I was prescribed thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I didn’t take the thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I took iodine .15mg a day instead for a period of several months since the mildly enlarged thyroid was the result of growing up in an area where the soil was iodine poor and as a farmer’s child I ate the food and drank the milk that was produced on the iodine poor soil and consequently had a very mild iodine deficiency goiter exacerbated by my avoidance of salt in any form for many years. I don’t have a thyroid problem. Had I taken the pills I probably would have one now. So because you were prescribed an inappropriate treatment for iodine deficiency caused by poor diet Not a poor diet at all. Actually something that is seldom considered in middle aged goiter – the area where you grew up. In New York, IIRC, there used to be a large area where goiter and even cretinism were very common. There are other such areas throughout North America and probably throughout the world. This problem was the driving force behind adding iodine to salt so that almost everyone would get their iodine requirement. It appears that people who grow up in these iodine-poor areas where the local produce, milk, meat, and water are all iodine deficient may not build up enough iodine stores in childhood. Unfortunately most of the people who develop this problem take the prescribed thyroid hormone and so develop an iatrogenic form of hypothyroidism. If your goitre was caused by a lack of iodine it was because of poor diet (that doesn’t mean you were eating junk food just that it didn’t contain all the essential minerals etc). You didn’t have a thyroid disease but a chemical deficiency which was easily reversed, that isn’t the case for people with an autoimmune thyroid condition they need additional thyroid hormones as their thyroids are unable to produce enough hormone for their bodies to function properly. I’m not the only person who’s been prescribed thyroid hormone when the RDA of iodine would have solved the problem. I did my research – books and articles because no internet at the time – and learned that in 90% of cases of miuld benign goiter, iodine supplementation – with only the RDA, no megadoses – solved the problem over a period of 6-12 months. Fad diets, and an emphasis on reducing salt intake has contributed to an increase in goiter btw. — Shirley see my cats at http://communities.msn.co.uk/Friendsfamilyandfelines2 http://uk.msnusers.com/friendsfamilyandfelines3
Response:
"Shirley" <s.holla…@ntlworld.com
wrote in news:bitsra$d48gr$1@ID-
145712.news.uni-berlin.de:
And you are happy with the fact that untreated/undertreated hypothyroidism causes heart failure, depression, raised cholesterol levels, gall bladder disease, gut motility problems and dementia, not to mention the myriad of drugs used to treat those conditions.
Is it really a question of not treating an actual condition? It sounded like Terri’s concern is those doctors who will just look at the ‘normal’ range and prescribe, without regard for how the patient is feeling. Then people whose personal range may be a little off will be treated when they don’t need it. When I first came here, I thought Terri’s posts were full of paranoia. More and more they sound to me like totally justifiable skepticism. Chakolate
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shirley wrote:
"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote in message news:bitu0u$p29$1@bob.news.rcn.net… Shirley wrote: "Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote in message news:bitn8g$dho$1@bob.news.rcn.net… Shirley wrote: "Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote in message news:bisopc$i9g$1@bob.news.rcn.net… And it will result in millions more people requiring the services of endocrinologists, many of whom probably bought stock in the companies that manufacture the drugs in anticipation of this announcement. More money for them at the expense of the people who are given thyroid hormone when they don’t need it. This is especially pernicious when you consider that giving unnecessary exogenous thyroid hormone will injure the thyroid and cause hypothyroidism. WRONG, giving unnecessary thyroid hormone results in hypErthyroidism and/or supressed TSH . Initially it will cause hyperthyroid symptoms not true hyperthyroidism which is overproduction of thyroid hormone by the thyroid gland.. Once the pituitary gets the chemically altered signals from the bloodstream it secretes less TSH to signal the thyroid to secrete less hormone. Now the person is hypothyroid unless s/he takes his/her pills. The damage may be irreversible just as it may be in a similar situation with the adrenals and corisone use. Most Dr’s don’t take into account how a person feels, they just look at the test results and see ‘within normal ref. range’ and there is quite a difference between how a person may feel with a TSH result of 0.5 and one of 5. Now let’s talk about "subclinical hypothyroidism" the precursor to these new norms…. Where a person has thyroid antibodies and only very slightly abnormal thyroid test results ? http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section2/chapter8/8e.htm <snipped Thyroid hormone used to be prescribed quite regularly for weight loss. It did a lot of damage that way and tighter controls were placed on it. Looks to me as though this is a new way to do the same thing – sell more drugs. So because some Dr’s prescribed inappropriately people who are ill should suffer ! I’m very suspicious of attempts to put more and more people into a "diseased and in need of lifelong drugs and medical care" category merely by changing the norms on a lab test. If the reference range is wrong ie arrived at by using the wrong/skewed data then I don’t understand why it shouldn’t be corrected and if this means more people will recieve treatment that will make them well surely that is a good thing ? Normal people will receive treatments that will make them dependent on drugs and doctors in response to these new levels. There’s little evidence to suggest that the levels that have been in use for decades are suddenly wrong so millions more people are now in the category of diseased people who need tteatment. The data used to decide the reference ranges included people with thyroid problems (there weren’t the sensitive tests there are today to be able to exclude them) this skewed the results. Prior to TSH testing (and this should not be used on it’s own to determine if someone has a thyroid problem, FT4 and FT3 need to be added to get a broader picture) But the article makes clear that the TSH alone is to be used to decide on whether or not treatment is required. That happens now with most Dr’s using the wider ref range and many people with sub-clinical thyroid problems are missed. By narrowing the range and picking up these people early many health problems can be avoided Dr’s were more inclined to take note of a patients clinical presentation and symptoms, sadly this doesn’t happen very often now. Just because person ‘A’ feels well with a TSH of 5 doesn’t mean that person ‘B’, ‘C’, ‘D’ or ‘E’ will and that is what you seem to be advocating – a one size fits all – policy. Read this it explains it so much better than I can. http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html or (scroll down to pge 34) http://www.nacb.org/lmpg/thyroid/3c_thyroid.pdf When the levels of osteoporosis and heart disease rise in response to this overuse of thyroid hormone, there will be still more drugs to treat these drug-induced diseases. And you are happy with the fact that untreated/undertreated hypothyroidism causes heart failure, depression, raised cholesterol levels, gall bladder disease, gut motility problems and dementia, not to mention the myriad of drugs used to treat those conditions. HypER causes stroke, and heart disease which are of course far more likely to cause heart failure than hypo. The other connections you make are possibilities but they don’t occur in the absence of symptoms. Raised cholesterol isn’t a disease. Hyper doesn’t cause heart failure, it may cause an enlarged heart and/or arrythmias.
Basic physiology again. A heart failure is more likely to occur in someone with a diseased heart. This includes, but is not limited to people with enlarged hearts or who have had heart attacks and whose heart muscle has been weakened or people with arrythmias who are more likely to suffer heart attacks and thus more likely to develop hart failure. Depending on the type of arrythmia, they may also be more likely to suffer from stroke- (for example atrial fib). I haven’t read that stroke is any more likely with
hyperthyroidism (and I have read very extensively in this area as I have Graves Disease)
Basic physiology.Hyperthroidism frequently causes hypertension which is a very strong risk factor for stroke. Atrial fib increases risk for stroke and atrial fib is very common in hyperthyroidism – unless you are confusing it with a heart attack
which is a much more likely occurance with severe hypethyroidism. Raised cholesterol isn’t a disease but it certainly isn’t healthy and is a contributory factor to many conditions which need drug and/or sugical treatment.
That’s very much open to debate.
I see you haven’t supplied links to any research that supports your view. I don’t need to research it. It’s basic physiology. Hmmm…. and I should believe what you say because ?
Because it’s basic physiology. It follows the rules of basic physiology…but you don’t have to believe it. I have a lot of problem with claims involving biological and physiological impossibilities. For example your statement that something that increases the risk of heart attack doesn’t increase the risk of heart failure suggests that you don’t really know what heart failure is or the underlying cause – anything that impedes the heart’s ability to pump blood which in turn leads to fluid build-up in the lung (pulmonary edema). Heart failure is actually possible in extremely advanced hypothyroidism where the heart rate and sluggish circulation combine to result in fluid build-up in the lung. However, it’s rare (I’d argue damn near impossible) for anyone to remain undiagnosed until that happens. It certainly isn’t going to happen to someone with a TSH higher than 3 but lower than 5 who isn’t being "treated." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
I’m guessing you don’t have a thyroid problem Terri and so don’t understand how having thyroid hormones even slightly out of your own personal ‘normal’ range can impact on your QOL. I was told I had a thyroid problem. I was told I needed thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I was prescribed thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I didn’t take the thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I took iodine .15mg a day instead for a period of several months since the mildly enlarged thyroid was the result of growing up in an area where the soil was iodine poor and as a farmer’s child I ate the food and drank the milk that was produced on the iodine poor soil and consequently had a very mild iodine deficiency goiter exacerbated by my avoidance of salt in any form for many years. I don’t have a thyroid problem. Had I taken the pills I probably would have one now. So because you were prescribed an inappropriate treatment for iodine deficiency caused by poor diet Not a poor diet at all. Actually something that is seldom considered in middle aged goiter – the area where you grew up. In New York, IIRC, there used to be a large area where goiter and even cretinism were very common. There are other such areas throughout North America and probably throughout the world. This problem was the driving force behind adding iodine to salt so that almost everyone would get their iodine requirement. It appears that people who grow up in these iodine-poor areas where the local produce, milk, meat, and water are all iodine deficient may
… read more »
Response:
"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com
wrote in message
news:bitp3q$gl0$1@bob.news.rcn.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Just for the hell of it I went to check the TSH levels on the tests
that
were done 14 years ago. Sho’ nuf….I’ve been hypothyroid all these years – and with a mild goiter I should have been seeing an endocrinologist all those years to treat it. Gee, I don’t have any
of
the problems I should have – and I weigh 118 (hmm…where’d those 4
lbs
go) at 5′7." ….maybe I’m headed for coma and even death? The really cute thing about the article Sharon quoted is that the
dread
diseases that might result from not treating mild thyroid disease
except
for infertility which is caused by both hypo and hyper are the ones
that
result from hypERthyroidism while the article goes on to say that
80% of
those they are recommending for treatment are hypothyroid according
to
these new guidelines.
Elevated cholesterol, heart disease (heart failure) depression and osteoporosis are all typical findings in people with undertreated/untreated hypOthyroidism, please supply links to data that indicates they are not. — Shirley see my cats at http://communities.msn.co.uk/Friendsfamilyandfelines2 http://uk.msnusers.com/friendsfamilyandfelines3
Response:
Kathryn wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:22:28 +0100, "Shirley" <s.holla…@ntlworld.com wrote: Here’s the link to the article Sharon was talking about http://www.aace.com/pub/tam2003/press.php [small quote] Thyroid Awareness Month is supported through an unrestricted grant from Abbott Laboratories.
And guess who produces synthroid…..what a surprise. Guess who produces the reageants used to test TSH and T3 and T4….right again…
See also: http://www.aace.com/CAP.php
my, my my my my….might be easier to list the drug manufacturers who aren’t listed among their corporate partners "THE FOLLOWING PHARMACEUTICAL AND MEDICAL EQUIPMENT manufacturers serve as members of the Corporate AACE Partnership. Their generous support and valuable input helps make possible the many educational programs and activities that AACE provides for its members, including this highly effective resource (AACE Online)." I really like this part: "Please demonstrate your appreciation for their support of AACE by visiting the individual company web sites via the links provided below." followed by links to every multinational drug company in the world.
Corporate AACE Partnership but if you look at the published AACE guidelines, (not the scripted press releases), on the AACE webpage, there is a note that the changes in the treatment recommendations are controversial. http://www.aace.com/clin/guidelines/hypo_hyper.pdf
Too bad that didn’t make it into the papers. I can imagine doctors being deluged with patients clasping these new guidelines clipped from a press release and demanding prescriptions once they see their test results. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Kathryn
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shirley wrote:
"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote in message news:bitp3q$gl0$1@bob.news.rcn.net… Just for the hell of it I went to check the TSH levels on the tests that were done 14 years ago. Sho’ nuf….I’ve been hypothyroid all these years – and with a mild goiter I should have been seeing an endocrinologist all those years to treat it. Gee, I don’t have any of the problems I should have – and I weigh 118 (hmm…where’d those 4 lbs go) at 5′7." ….maybe I’m headed for coma and even death? The really cute thing about the article Sharon quoted is that the dread diseases that might result from not treating mild thyroid disease except for infertility which is caused by both hypo and hyper are the ones that result from hypERthyroidism while the article goes on to say that 80% of those they are recommending for treatment are hypothyroid according to these new guidelines. Elevated cholesterol, heart disease (heart failure) depression and osteoporosis are all typical findings in people with undertreated/untreated hypOthyroidism, please supply links to data that indicates they are not.
Huh? I can’t find a site that does say this, but then it’s really hard to find one that lists non symptoms/findings. The following list the symptoms of early and late hypothyroidism – nary a mention of osteoporosis, heart disease, or cholesterol although they do mention depression. http://www.endocrineweb.com/hypo1.html http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000353.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
— Shirley see my cats at http://communities.msn.co.uk/Friendsfamilyandfelines2 http://uk.msnusers.com/friendsfamilyandfelines3
Response:
"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com
wrote in message
news:bitu0u$p29$1@bob.news.rcn.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Shirley wrote: > > "Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com
wrote in message
> > news:bitn8g$dho$1@bob.news.rcn.net… > >>Shirley wrote: > >>>"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com
wrote in message
> >>>news:bisopc$i9g$1@bob.news.rcn.net… > >>>>And it will result in millions more people requiring the services
of endocrinologists, many of whom probably bought stock in the companies that manufacture the drugs in anticipation of this announcement. More money for them at the expense of the people who are given
thyroid
hormone when they don’t need it. This is especially pernicious when you consider that giving unnecessary exogenous thyroid hormone will injure the thyroid and cause hypothyroidism. WRONG, giving unnecessary thyroid hormone results in hypErthyroidism and/or supressed TSH . Initially it will cause hyperthyroid symptoms not true hyperthyroidism which is overproduction of thyroid hormone by the thyroid gland.. Once the pituitary gets the chemically altered signals from the bloodstream it secretes less TSH to signal the thyroid to secrete less
hormone.
Now the person is hypothyroid unless s/he takes his/her pills. The damage may be irreversible just as it may be in a similar situation with the adrenals and corisone use. Most Dr’s don’t take into account how a person feels, they just look at the test results and see ‘within normal ref. range’ and there is quite a difference between how a person may feel with a TSH result of 0.5 and one of 5. Now let’s talk about "subclinical hypothyroidism" the precursor to these new norms…. Where a person has thyroid antibodies and only very slightly
abnormal
thyroid test results ? http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section2/chapter8/8e.htm <snipped Thyroid hormone used to be prescribed quite regularly for weight loss. It did a lot of damage that way and tighter controls were placed on it. Looks to me as though this is a new way to do the same thing – sell more drugs. So because some Dr’s prescribed inappropriately people who are
ill
should suffer ! I’m very suspicious of attempts to put more and more people into
a
"diseased and in need of lifelong drugs and medical care"
category
merely by changing the norms on a lab test. If the reference range is wrong ie arrived at by using the wrong/skewed data then I don’t understand why it shouldn’t be corrected and if this means more people will recieve treatment that will make them well surely that is a good thing ? Normal people will receive treatments that will make them
dependent
on drugs and doctors in response to these new levels. There’s little evidence to suggest that the levels that have been in use for decades are suddenly wrong so millions more people are now in the category of diseased people who need tteatment. The data used to decide the reference ranges included people with thyroid problems (there weren’t the sensitive tests there are
today
to be able to exclude them) this skewed the results. Prior to TSH testing (and this should not be used on it’s own to determine if someone has a thyroid problem, FT4 and FT3 need to be added to get
a
broader picture) But the article makes clear that the TSH alone is to be used to
decide
on whether or not treatment is required.
That happens now with most Dr’s using the wider ref range and many people with sub-clinical thyroid problems are missed. By narrowing the range and picking up these people early many health problems can be avoided – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Dr’s were more inclined to take note of a patients clinical presentation and symptoms, sadly this doesn’t happen very often now. Just because person ‘A’ feels well with a TSH of 5
doesn’t
mean that person ‘B’, ‘C’, ‘D’ or ‘E’ will and that is what you
seem
to be advocating – a one size fits all – policy. Read this it explains it so much better than I can. http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html or (scroll down to pge 34) http://www.nacb.org/lmpg/thyroid/3c_thyroid.pdf When the levels of osteoporosis and heart disease rise in response to this overuse of thyroid hormone, there will be still more drugs to treat these drug-induced diseases. And you are happy with the fact that untreated/undertreated hypothyroidism causes heart failure, depression, raised
cholesterol
levels, gall bladder disease, gut motility problems and dementia,
not
to mention the myriad of drugs used to treat those conditions. HypER causes stroke, and heart disease which are of course far more likely to cause heart failure than hypo. The other connections you
make
are possibilities but they don’t occur in the absence of symptoms. Raised cholesterol isn’t a disease.
Hyper doesn’t cause heart failure, it may cause an enlarged heart and/or arrythmias. I haven’t read that stroke is any more likely with hyperthyroidism (and I have read very extensively in this area as I have Graves Disease) unless you are confusing it with a heart attack which is a much more likely occurance with severe hypethyroidism. Raised cholesterol isn’t a disease but it certainly isn’t healthy and is a contributory factor to many conditions which need drug and/or sugical treatment.
I see you haven’t supplied links to any research that supports
your
view. I don’t need to research it. It’s basic physiology.
Hmmm…. and I should believe what you say because ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
I’m guessing you don’t have a thyroid problem Terri and so don’t understand how having thyroid hormones even slightly out of your own personal ‘normal’ range can impact on your QOL. I was told I had a thyroid problem. I was told I needed thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I was prescribed thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I didn’t take the thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem.
I
took iodine .15mg a day instead for a period of several months
since
the mildly enlarged thyroid was the result of growing up in an area where the soil was iodine poor and as a farmer’s child I ate the food
and
drank the milk that was produced on the iodine poor soil and consequently had a very mild iodine deficiency goiter exacerbated
by
my avoidance of salt in any form for many years. I don’t have a
thyroid
problem. Had I taken the pills I probably would have one now. So because you were prescribed an inappropriate treatment for
iodine
deficiency caused by poor diet Not a poor diet at all. Actually something that is seldom considered
in
middle aged goiter – the area where you grew up. In New York, IIRC, there used to be a large area where goiter and even cretinism were
very
common. There are other such areas throughout North America and
probably
throughout the world. This problem was the driving force behind
adding
iodine to salt so that almost everyone would get their iodine requirement. It appears that people who grow up in these iodine-poor areas where the local produce, milk, meat, and water are all iodine deficient may not build up enough iodine stores in childhood. Unfortunately most of the people who develop this problem take the prescribed thyroid hormone and so develop an iatrogenic form of hypothyroidism.
If your goitre was caused by a lack of iodine it was because of poor diet (that doesn’t mean you were eating junk food just that it didn’t contain all the essential minerals etc). You didn’t have a thyroid disease but a chemical deficiency which was easily reversed, that isn’t the case for people with an autoimmune thyroid condition they need additional thyroid hormones as their thyroids are unable to produce enough hormone for their bodies to function properly. — Shirley see my cats at http://communities.msn.co.uk/Friendsfamilyandfelines2 http://uk.msnusers.com/friendsfamilyandfelines3
Response:
"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com
wrote in message
news:bitp3q$gl0$1@bob.news.rcn.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Just for the hell of it I went to check the TSH levels on the tests
that
were done 14 years ago. Sho’ nuf….I’ve been hypothyroid all these years – and with a mild goiter I should have been seeing an endocrinologist all those years to treat it. Gee, I don’t have any
of
the problems I should have – and I weigh 118 (hmm…where’d those 4
lbs
go) at 5′7." ….maybe I’m headed for coma and even death? The really cute thing about the article Sharon quoted is that the
dread
diseases that might result from not treating mild thyroid disease
except
for infertility which is caused by both hypo and hyper are the ones
that
result from hypERthyroidism while the article goes on to say that
80% of
those they are recommending for treatment are hypothyroid according
to
these new guidelines. The most pernicious part of the article is the suggestion one should treat lab tests even in the absence of symptoms because apparently
the
goal is to have lab tests within normal limits.
Most Dr’s see TSH tests as the only indicator of thyroid disfunction and take no acount of symptoms. TSH alone is not a good indicator of thyroid disease. As I said in another post just because your thyroid levels are right for you it doesn’t mean they are right for everyone else – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
"New clinical guidelines published by AACE in November 20023 not
only
enable doctors to more easily identify patients with thyroid
disease,
but also provide treatment standards. Using a simple blood test
called
the thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) test, any physician can
determine
whether someone is suffering from an overactive or underactive
thyroid -
in many cases, even before patients begin to experience symptoms4."
Response:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:22:28 +0100, "Shirley" <s.holla…@ntlworld.com
wrote: Here’s the link to the article Sharon was talking about http://www.aace.com/pub/tam2003/press.php
[small quote]
Thyroid Awareness Month is supported through an unrestricted grant from Abbott Laboratories.
See also: http://www.aace.com/CAP.php
Corporate AACE Partnership
but if you look at the published AACE guidelines, (not the scripted press releases), on the AACE webpage, there is a note that the changes in the treatment recommendations are controversial. http://www.aace.com/clin/guidelines/hypo_hyper.pdf Kathryn
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shirley wrote:
"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote in message news:bitn8g$dho$1@bob.news.rcn.net… Shirley wrote: "Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote in message news:bisopc$i9g$1@bob.news.rcn.net… And it will result in millions more people requiring the services of endocrinologists, many of whom probably bought stock in the companies that manufacture the drugs in anticipation of this announcement. More money for them at the expense of the people who are given thyroid hormone when they don’t need it. This is especially pernicious when you consider that giving unnecessary exogenous thyroid hormone will injure the thyroid and cause hypothyroidism. WRONG, giving unnecessary thyroid hormone results in hypErthyroidism and/or supressed TSH . Initially it will cause hyperthyroid symptoms not true hyperthyroidism which is overproduction of thyroid hormone by the thyroid gland.. Once the pituitary gets the chemically altered signals from the bloodstream it secretes less TSH to signal the thyroid to secrete less hormone. Now the person is hypothyroid unless s/he takes his/her pills. The damage may be irreversible just as it may be in a similar situation with the adrenals and corisone use. Most Dr’s don’t take into account how a person feels, they just look at the test results and see ‘within normal ref. range’ and there is quite a difference between how a person may feel with a TSH result of 0.5 and one of 5. Now let’s talk about "subclinical hypothyroidism" the precursor to these new norms…. Where a person has thyroid antibodies and only very slightly abnormal thyroid test results ? http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section2/chapter8/8e.htm <snipped Thyroid hormone used to be prescribed quite regularly for weight loss. It did a lot of damage that way and tighter controls were placed on it. Looks to me as though this is a new way to do the same thing – sell more drugs. So because some Dr’s prescribed inappropriately people who are ill should suffer ! I’m very suspicious of attempts to put more and more people into a "diseased and in need of lifelong drugs and medical care" category merely by changing the norms on a lab test. If the reference range is wrong ie arrived at by using the wrong/skewed data then I don’t understand why it shouldn’t be corrected and if this means more people will recieve treatment that will make them well surely that is a good thing ? Normal people will receive treatments that will make them dependent on drugs and doctors in response to these new levels. There’s little evidence to suggest that the levels that have been in use for decades are suddenly wrong so millions more people are now in the category of diseased people who need tteatment. The data used to decide the reference ranges included people with thyroid problems (there weren’t the sensitive tests there are today to be able to exclude them) this skewed the results. Prior to TSH testing (and this should not be used on it’s own to determine if someone has a thyroid problem, FT4 and FT3 need to be added to get a broader picture)
But the article makes clear that the TSH alone is to be used to decide on whether or not treatment is required. Dr’s were more inclined to take note of a patients – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
clinical presentation and symptoms, sadly this doesn’t happen very often now. Just because person ‘A’ feels well with a TSH of 5 doesn’t mean that person ‘B’, ‘C’, ‘D’ or ‘E’ will and that is what you seem to be advocating – a one size fits all – policy. Read this it explains it so much better than I can. http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html or (scroll down to pge 34) http://www.nacb.org/lmpg/thyroid/3c_thyroid.pdf When the levels of osteoporosis and heart disease rise in response to this overuse of thyroid hormone, there will be still more drugs to treat these drug-induced diseases. And you are happy with the fact that untreated/undertreated hypothyroidism causes heart failure, depression, raised cholesterol levels, gall bladder disease, gut motility problems and dementia, not to mention the myriad of drugs used to treat those conditions.
HypER causes stroke, and heart disease which are of course far more likely to cause heart failure than hypo. The other connections you make are possibilities but they don’t occur in the absence of symptoms. Raised cholesterol isn’t a disease.
I see you haven’t supplied links to any research that supports your view.
I don’t need to research it. It’s basic physiology. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
I’m guessing you don’t have a thyroid problem Terri and so don’t understand how having thyroid hormones even slightly out of your own personal ‘normal’ range can impact on your QOL. I was told I had a thyroid problem. I was told I needed thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I was prescribed thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I didn’t take the thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I took iodine .15mg a day instead for a period of several months since the mildly enlarged thyroid was the result of growing up in an area where the soil was iodine poor and as a farmer’s child I ate the food and drank the milk that was produced on the iodine poor soil and consequently had a very mild iodine deficiency goiter exacerbated by my avoidance of salt in any form for many years. I don’t have a thyroid problem. Had I taken the pills I probably would have one now. So because you were prescribed an inappropriate treatment for iodine deficiency caused by poor diet
Not a poor diet at all. Actually something that is seldom considered in middle aged goiter – the area where you grew up. In New York, IIRC, there used to be a large area where goiter and even cretinism were very common. There are other such areas throughout North America and probably throughout the world. This problem was the driving force behind adding iodine to salt so that almost everyone would get their iodine requirement. It appears that people who grow up in these iodine-poor areas where the local produce, milk, meat, and water are all iodine deficient may not build up enough iodine stores in childhood. Unfortunately most of the people who develop this problem take the prescribed thyroid hormone and so develop an iatrogenic form of hypothyroidism. you assume that other people will be – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
prescribed thyroid medications inappropriately ! Shirley
Response:
"Steve Green" <sgreen…@hotmail.com
wrote in message
news:9rs4lv4peqdk0deqig1uufbvu0j3h5jf8p@4ax.com…
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 17:27:30 -0400, Terri <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote: <snip The most pernicious part of the article is the suggestion one should treat lab tests even in the absence of symptoms because apparently the goal is to have lab tests within normal limits. <snip You’ve touched upon the real problem here. Before the advent of the TSH test, thyroid problems were treated in accordance with symptoms. IMO the TSH test, while it has its uses, is mostly for the benefit of doctors who must treat within a certain protocol (correct term?) not unlike some aspects of mammography.
Yeah, I’ve wondered about this. For several years doctors noted that my thyroid was enlarged, & in the same time frame my bp went up (for no apparent reason), a couple of nurses commented that my resting pulse was sort of fast, & I was always warmer/hotter than anyone around me. I had 3 thyroid tests over the years (7 – 8 years) & all said I was fine. Finally, the 4th one came back, in ‘98, saying I was slightly hyper-T. I went for further tests, which confirmed it, & was finally prescribed medication. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Even so, the new range is generally seen by longtime thyroid patients like me as a step in the right direction. There’s been a lot of discussion about it on alt.support.thyroid. –Rhymie, still waiting for "Steve" to fix her computer 
Steve Green
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Steve Green wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 17:27:30 -0400, Terri <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote: <snip The most pernicious part of the article is the suggestion one should treat lab tests even in the absence of symptoms because apparently the goal is to have lab tests within normal limits. <snip You’ve touched upon the real problem here. Before the advent of the TSH test, thyroid problems were treated in accordance with symptoms. IMO the TSH test, while it has its uses, is mostly for the benefit of doctors who must treat within a certain protocol (correct term?) not unlike some aspects of mammography.
Under the new guidelines I would have been deemed to be hypothyroid as opposed to having synthroid prescribed for mild goiter with normal functioning. I am not hypothyroid. I have no symptoms of hypothyroidism. And if I’d taken the prescribed drugs I damn well would be hypothyroid by now and doomed to a life of thyroid hormones and doctor’s offices – another iatragenic illness just waiting to happen (and avoided through careful research on my part) from where I sit. I suspect this will happen to a lot of people, especially women with these new "norms." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Even so, the new range is generally seen by longtime thyroid patients like me as a step in the right direction. There’s been a lot of discussion about it on alt.support.thyroid. –Rhymie, still waiting for "Steve" to fix her computer Steve Green
Response:
"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com
wrote in message
news:bitn8g$dho$1@bob.news.rcn.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Shirley wrote: > > "Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com
wrote in message
> > news:bisopc$i9g$1@bob.news.rcn.net… > >>And it will result in millions more people requiring the services of
endocrinologists, many of whom probably bought stock in the companies that manufacture the drugs in anticipation of this announcement. More money for them at the expense of the people who are given thyroid hormone when they don’t need it. This is especially pernicious
when
you consider that giving unnecessary exogenous thyroid hormone will injure the thyroid and cause hypothyroidism. WRONG, giving unnecessary thyroid hormone results in
hypErthyroidism
and/or supressed TSH . Initially it will cause hyperthyroid symptoms not true
hyperthyroidism
which is overproduction of thyroid hormone by the thyroid gland..
Once
the pituitary gets the chemically altered signals from the
bloodstream
it secretes less TSH to signal the thyroid to secrete less hormone.
Now
the person is hypothyroid unless s/he takes his/her pills. The
damage
may be irreversible just as it may be in a similar situation with
the
adrenals and corisone use. Most Dr’s don’t take into account how a person feels, they just look at the test results and see ‘within normal
ref.
range’ and there is quite a difference between how a person may
feel
with a TSH result of 0.5 and one of 5. Now let’s talk about "subclinical hypothyroidism" the precursor to
these
new norms….
Where a person has thyroid antibodies and only very slightly abnormal thyroid test results ? http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section2/chapter8/8e.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
<snipped Thyroid hormone used to be prescribed quite regularly for weight loss. It did a lot of damage that way and tighter controls were placed
on
it. Looks to me as though this is a new way to do the same thing –
sell
more drugs. So because some Dr’s prescribed inappropriately people who are ill should suffer ! I’m very suspicious of attempts to put more and more people into a "diseased and in need of lifelong drugs and medical care" category merely by changing the norms on a lab test. If the reference range is wrong ie arrived at by using the wrong/skewed data then I don’t understand why it shouldn’t be corrected and if this means more people will recieve treatment
that
will make them well surely that is a good thing ? Normal people will receive treatments that will make them dependent
on
drugs and doctors in response to these new levels. There’s little evidence to suggest that the levels that have been in use for
decades
are suddenly wrong so millions more people are now in the category
of
diseased people who need tteatment.
The data used to decide the reference ranges included people with thyroid problems (there weren’t the sensitive tests there are today to be able to exclude them) this skewed the results. Prior to TSH testing (and this should not be used on it’s own to determine if someone has a thyroid problem, FT4 and FT3 need to be added to get a broader picture) Dr’s were more inclined to take note of a patients clinical presentation and symptoms, sadly this doesn’t happen very often now. Just because person ‘A’ feels well with a TSH of 5 doesn’t mean that person ‘B’, ‘C’, ‘D’ or ‘E’ will and that is what you seem to be advocating – a one size fits all – policy. Read this it explains it so much better than I can. http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html or (scroll down to pge 34) http://www.nacb.org/lmpg/thyroid/3c_thyroid.pdf
When the levels of osteoporosis and heart disease rise in response to this overuse of thyroid hormone,
there
will be still more drugs to treat these drug-induced diseases.
And you are happy with the fact that untreated/undertreated hypothyroidism causes heart failure, depression, raised cholesterol levels, gall bladder disease, gut motility problems and dementia, not to mention the myriad of drugs used to treat those conditions. I see you haven’t supplied links to any research that supports your view. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
I’m guessing you don’t have a thyroid problem Terri and so don’t understand how having thyroid hormones even slightly out of your
own
personal ‘normal’ range can impact on your QOL. I was told I had a thyroid problem. I was told I needed thyroid
hormone
for my thyroid problem. I was prescribed thyroid hormone for my
thyroid
problem. I didn’t take the thyroid hormone for my thyroid problem. I took iodine .15mg a day instead for a period of several months since
the
mildly enlarged thyroid was the result of growing up in an area
where
the soil was iodine poor and as a farmer’s child I ate the food and drank the milk that was produced on the iodine poor soil and consequently had a very mild iodine deficiency goiter exacerbated by
my
avoidance of salt in any form for many years. I don’t have a thyroid problem. Had I taken the pills I probably would have one now.
So because you were prescribed an inappropriate treatment for iodine deficiency caused by poor diet you assume that other people will be prescribed thyroid medications inappropriately ! Shirley
Response:
Just for the hell of it I went to check the TSH levels on the tests that were done 14 years ago. Sho’ nuf….I’ve been hypothyroid all these years – and with a mild goiter I should have been seeing an endocrinologist all those years to treat it. Gee, I don’t have any of the problems I should have – and I weigh 118 (hmm…where’d those 4 lbs go) at 5′7." ….maybe I’m headed for coma and even death? The really cute thing about the article Sharon quoted is that the dread diseases that might result from not treating mild thyroid disease except for infertility which is caused by both hypo and hyper are the ones that result from hypERthyroidism while the article goes on to say that 80% of those they are recommending for treatment are hypothyroid according to these new guidelines. The most pernicious part of the article is the suggestion one should treat lab tests even in the absence of symptoms because apparently the goal is to have lab tests within normal limits. "New clinical guidelines published by AACE in November 20023 not only enable doctors to more easily identify patients with thyroid disease, but also provide treatment standards. Using a simple blood test called the thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) test, any physician can determine whether someone is suffering from an overactive or underactive thyroid – in many cases, even before patients begin to experience symptoms4." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
"Terri" <vl-hb…@erols.com wrote in message news:bisopc$i9g$1@bob.news.rcn.net… And it will result in millions more people requiring the services of endocrinologists, many of whom probably bought stock in the companies that manufacture the drugs in anticipation of this announcement. More money for them at the expense of the people who are given thyroid hormone when they don’t need it. This is especially pernicious when you consider that giving unnecessary exogenous thyroid hormone will injure the thyroid and cause hypothyroidism. WRONG, giving unnecessary thyroid hormone results in hypErthyroidism and/or supressed TSH . Most Dr’s don’t take into account how a person feels, they just look at the test results and see ‘within normal ref. range’ and there is quite a difference between how a person may feel with a TSH result of 0.5 and one of 5. Here’s the link to the article Sharon was talking about http://www.aace.com/pub/tam2003/press.php and another http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aanewTSHrange.htm and you may like to have a look at this site too. http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html Thyroid hormone used to be prescribed quite regularly for weight loss. It did a lot of damage that way and tighter controls were placed on it. Looks to me as though this is a new way to do the same thing – sell more drugs. So because some Dr’s prescribed inappropriately people who are ill should suffer ! I’m very suspicious of attempts to put more and more people into a "diseased and in need of lifelong drugs and medical care" category merely by changing the norms on a lab test. If the reference range is wrong ie arrived at by using the wrong/skewed data then I don’t understand why it shouldn’t be corrected and if this means more people will recieve treatment that will make them well surely that is a good thing ? I’m guessing you don’t have a thyroid problem Terri and so don’t understand how having thyroid hormones even slightly out of your own personal ‘normal’ range can impact on your QOL. http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html
Response:
I have no URL for this post. It came from a friend of mine. I wish I could find the source,but here goes: "According to the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (AACE), what was normal last year, thyroid-wise, may now be abnormal. According to the AACE, doctors have typically been basing their diagnoses on the "normal" range for the TSH test. The typical normal levels at most laboratories has fallen in the 0.5 to 5.0 range. The new guidelines narrow the range for acceptable thyroid function, and the AACE is now encouraging doctors to consider thyroid treatment for patients who test the target TSH level of 0.3 to 3.04, a far narrower range. AACE believes the new range will result in proper diagnosis for millions of Americans who suffer from a mild thyroid disorder, but have gone untreated until now." Sharon…………A warm toll-house cookie is an experience not unlike a religious epiphany.
Response:
Categories: Thyroid Treatment | 
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. This combination has decreased my migraines from 5-7 to 3-5/week. I’m grateful for the lesser attacks, of course, but the main benefit is that the migraines start "slower" (don’t know any better way to describe it) and I have a bit more time to take a triptan. I hope the neuro can help you. I’ll keep my fingers crossed! Didi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am headed to the neuro tomorrow for the followup, nag me to death routine. I usually try to come with some form of idea to show them I am interested in finding a preventive. I thought I saved some of the posts over the last few months, but can’t find them. I am wondering what some of you are taking for preventives? How has that worked for you overall? And also wondered if anyone has tried Protriptyline and if so, what were the results? Any thoughts are helpful. Thanks all, Michelle 