Question:

Hello, I just read about 500 posts and have previously read all the FAQs so I hope to post with some measure of dignity. I have 9 piercings. Nothing too exciting yet. Left ear: 3 lobe piercings, 3 upper cartilage piercings, 1 inner helix piercing. Right ear: 1 lobe piercing. Facial: 1 nostril piercing. Nothing stretched large enough to mention. I’m not really into any major stretching at this point. As soon as I finalize with my piercer the jewelry I need/want and get it (I order my jewelry from http://www.squirmingcoil.com/ — I really like their jewelry styles and quality and so does my piercer),  I’ll be getting a vertical clitoral hood piercing and then a madonna piercing once the hood is mostly healed. I have two tattoos, one on my left shoulder and one on my right ankle, both very simple. Shoulder is a women’s symbol with crescent moons on either side, ankle is my and my husband’s astrological signs intertwined (Taurus/Aquarius — he has the same tattoo). Yes, I know astrological signs are overdone but I like it anyway. I have at least three more tattoos planned, but no tattoo artist nearby I feel comfortable with, so those will have to wait. I have fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. That means my immune system is pretty crappy. I’m wondering if anyone else on this newsgroup has one or both of these illnesses and if so, do they have problems healing piercings, either new ones or after small gauge stretching? Even though I follow my piercer’s guidelines to the letter, healing is generally a bitch for me. It takes longer, I have more complications, I’m more likely to get infections or even have to go on antibiotics to keep the piercing (thank the Goddess for a piercing friendly doctor). If someone else with my illnesses has had the same experience, have you found a solution? I’m in Tallahassee, FL and Kim at What’s the Point is my piercer if anyone is curious. I’m an R.N. and she has better sterile technique than most nurses I know. This is a major generalization of her aftercare guidelines: rinse/soak with saline solution 3 x a day, then apply Neosporin inside and out and wiggle/spin the jewelry around so it gets inside the hole, wash with your regular soap whenever you normally bathe and apply Neosporin afterwards. After 10 days, continue with the saline for a minimum of 4 more days and switch to using vitamin E oil instead of Neosporin. (Of course there are variations depending on the piercing.) I think I’ll shut up now. I find it hard to summarize. kalipriestess "Do you worship a Goddess? Don’t tell me if you do. I hate those bitches, all but Kali – at least when she breeds, she eats her young."     — Lush Rimbaud (from Poppy Z. Brite’s "Exquisite Corpse")

Response:

This is a major generalization of her aftercare guidelines: rinse/soak with saline solution 3 x a day, then apply Neosporin inside and out and wiggle/spin the jewelry around so it gets inside the hole, wash with your regular soap whenever you normally bathe and apply Neosporin afterwards. After 10 days, continue with the saline for a minimum of 4 more days and switch to using vitamin E oil instead of Neosporin. (Of course there are variations depending on the piercing.)

Get a new piercer, if that is truly her aftercare procedure. And I’m not even going into you having the two of the most common over-prescribed diseases.  Please tell me you’re on Prozac and make my day. Kavin

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a major generalization of her aftercare guidelines: rinse/soak with saline solution 3 x a day, then apply Neosporin inside and out and wiggle/spin the jewelry around so it gets inside the hole, wash with your regular soap whenever you normally bathe and apply Neosporin afterwards. After 10 days, continue with the saline for a minimum of 4 more days and switch to using vitamin E oil instead of Neosporin. (Of course there are variations depending on the piercing.) Get a new piercer, if that is truly her aftercare procedure. And I’m not even going into you having the two of the most common over-prescribed diseases.  Please tell me you’re on Prozac and make my day. Kavin

The vitamin E oil is beneficial. I never tried it on a piercing – I kind of forgot about it. I have used it on acne (I had acne until I was 50). The saline and Neosporin I have seen recommended one place or another but I never found saline helpful. I had one piercer suggest using the maximum dose of zinc for a few weeks. This has medical basis but I can’t say for sure it helped not having any comparison. Chuck —                         … The times have been,                      That, when the brains were out,                           the man would die. …         Macbeth

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a major generalization of her aftercare guidelines: rinse/soak with saline solution 3 x a day, then apply Neosporin inside and out and wiggle/spin the jewelry around so it gets inside the hole, wash with your regular soap whenever you normally bathe and apply Neosporin afterwards. After 10 days, continue with the saline for a minimum of 4 more days and switch to using vitamin E oil instead of Neosporin. (Of course there are variations depending on the piercing.) Get a new piercer, if that is truly her aftercare procedure. And I’m not even going into you having the two of the most common over-prescribed diseases.  Please tell me you’re on Prozac and make my day. Kavin The vitamin E oil is beneficial. I never tried it on a piercing – I kind of forgot about it. I have used it on acne (I had acne until I was 50). The saline and Neosporin I have seen recommended one place or another but I never found saline helpful. I had one piercer suggest using the maximum dose of zinc for a few weeks. This has medical basis but I can’t say for sure it helped not having any comparison.

No it doesnt.   Jesus, why are so many piercers completely full of shit?  And why doesnt an RN know better than to slather everything with antibiotics when theres no infection present? Gah.  Everyone stop getting pierced this instant.  Yall suck. —–. — Theres a hole in the world like a great black pit and its filled with people who are filled with shit and the vermin of the world inhabit it

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k anyone is curious. I’m an R.N. and she has better sterile technique k than most nurses I know.         that’s not saying much for her, you realize. k apply Neosporin inside and out k wiggle/spin the jewelry k apply Neosporin afterwards k using vitamin E oil         terrible, all of this. lish 35.1% / 29                           "Don’t think we care.  Ever." -k.t

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. No it doesnt.           aww, look who came over for his birthday. lish 35.1% / 29                           "Don’t think we care.  Ever." -k.t

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Jesus, why are so many piercers completely full of shit?  And why doesnt an RN know better than to slather everything with antibiotics when theres no infection present?

Yeah.  What Lish said.  Not to mention that the carrier for the antibx in neosporin can seal in anaerobic bacteria and let them thrive once the antibx effect has worn off. absinthea (an RN…but completely hating being one)

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Yeah.  What Lish said.

Yttrx…I mean YTTRX. a

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. No it doesnt.          aww, look who came over for his birthday.

I hate you all.  And im allowed, because im old and crotchety. —–. — Theres a hole in the world like a great black pit and its filled with people who are filled with shit and the vermin of the world inhabit it

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. No it doesnt.          aww, look who came over for his birthday. I hate you all.  And im allowed, because im old and crotchety.

Hey.  I’m going to be 42 a week from Friday.  Damn kids these days… — Stan Schwarz                | Extreme sports…offer "some kind of physical http://cosmo.pasadena.ca.us | other open-source operating systems."                             |           -Mikki Halpin, _The Geek Handbook_

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. No it doesnt.          aww, look who came over for his birthday. I hate you all.  And im allowed, because im old and crotchety. Hey.  I’m going to be 42 a week from Friday.  Damn kids these days…

Kick ass.  You’re WAY older than me.  :) —–. — Theres a hole in the world like a great black pit and its filled with people who are filled with shit and the vermin of the world inhabit it

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Yeah.  What Lish said.  Not to mention that the carrier for the antibx in neosporin can seal in anaerobic bacteria and let them thrive once the antibx effect has worn off.

Hey, a familiar face from agf! Anyway, that was one of the reasons she limited the time span for use of the Neosporin. kalipriestess "Do you worship a Goddess? Don’t tell me if you do. I hate those bitches,  all but Kali – at least when she breeds, she eats her young."     — Lush Rimbaud (from Poppy Z. Brite’s "Exquisite Corpse")

Response:

<snippage I have fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. That means my immune system is pretty crappy. I’m wondering if anyone else on this newsgroup has one or both of these illnesses and if so, do they have problems healing piercings, either new ones or after small gauge stretching? Even though I follow my piercer’s guidelines to the letter, healing is generally a bitch for me. It takes longer, I have more complications, I’m more likely to get infections or even have to go on antibiotics to keep the piercing (thank the Goddess for a piercing friendly doctor). If someone else with my illnesses has had the same experience, have you found a solution?

So your doctor is piercing friendly but doesn’t know how to treat "fibromyalgia" and "chronic fatigue syndrome"? If you were properly treated, you would no longer have problems with infection. What are you taking? It’s obviously either the wrong treatment or not enough of the right one. I had symptoms of CFS and FMS for two years, but no diagnosis of anything. (It was quite obviously all in my head.) I found a good integrative doctor in January of this year, started thyroid treatment, and my immune system works again. No more infections. In April I got my fourth and largest tattoo, and it healed quickly and beautifully. In July I got my eyebrow pierced, and it’s still occasionally crusty, but never got infected, and no major problems. I’m in Tallahassee, FL and Kim at What’s the Point is my piercer if anyone is curious. I’m an R.N. and she has better sterile technique than most nurses I know. This is a major generalization of her aftercare guidelines: rinse/soak with saline solution 3 x a day, then apply Neosporin inside and out and wiggle/spin the jewelry around so it gets inside the hole, wash with your regular soap whenever you normally bathe and apply Neosporin afterwards. After 10 days, continue with the saline for a minimum of 4 more days and switch to using vitamin E oil instead of Neosporin. (Of course there are variations depending on the piercing.)

You need a new doctor and a new piercer as well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I think I’ll shut up now. I find it hard to summarize. kalipriestess "Do you worship a Goddess? Don’t tell me if you do. I hate those bitches, all but Kali – at least when she breeds, she eats her young."    – Lush Rimbaud (from Poppy Z. Brite’s "Exquisite Corpse")

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ABS Yeah.  What Lish said.  Not to mention that the carrier for the antibx in ABS neosporin can seal in anaerobic bacteria and let them thrive once the antibx ABS effect has worn off. KP Anyway, that was one of the reasons she limited the time span for use KP of the Neosporin. To what, 3 minutes? There should be no reason for you to use an antibiotic ointment immediately after getting pierced.  I’d take it to mean my piercer was doing something a little wrong in the cleanliness department, but that’s just me. Can I ask what you tell a patient to do for stitches? Kavin

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k Anyway, that was one of the reasons she limited the time span for use k of the Neosporin.         you are totally missing the point, & so is she. lish 35.1% / 29                           "Don’t think we care.  Ever." -k.t

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says… <snippage I have fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. That means my immune system is pretty crappy

 tried changing your diet? i heal a lot better when i get enough of everything, food pyramid style.      -Moth

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says… <snippage I have fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. That means my immune system is pretty crappy  tried changing your diet? i heal a lot better when i get enough of everything, food pyramid style.      -Moth

Is that the nicotine, alcohol, caffeine and sometimes chocolate pyramid?

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So your doctor is piercing friendly but doesn’t know how to treat "fibromyalgia" and "chronic fatigue syndrome"? If you were properly treated, you would no longer have problems with infection. What are you taking? It’s obviously either the wrong treatment or not enough of the right one.

There is no cure for either condition (FMS or CFS). Proper treatment decreases symptoms but in no way guarantees they will disappear. When I say my doctor is piercing friendly, I mean that she is willing to treat any infections without insisting I take out the jewelry, as most doctors seem to do. I had symptoms of CFS and FMS for two years, but no diagnosis of anything. (It was quite obviously all in my head.) I found a good integrative doctor in January of this year, started thyroid treatment, and my immune system works again. No more infections. In April I got my fourth and largest tattoo, and it healed quickly and beautifully. In July I got my eyebrow pierced, and it’s still occasionally crusty, but never got infected, and no major problems.

If it was all in your head why didn’t you just go to a good psychiatrist? You didn’t need any medical treatment at all. My thyroid has been tested many times and is working perfectly fine. Your experience has nothing to do with mine as you have already said you have never had either of my conditions. FWIW, I’ve never had a problem healing tattoos. You need a new doctor and a new piercer as well.

You need a medical degree and extensive experience in treating people with my conditions before you start criticizing my doctor. Hell, just having personal experience as someone WITH the disorders would help. kalipriestess "Do you worship a Goddess? Don’t tell me if you do. I hate those bitches,  all but Kali – at least when she breeds, she eats her young."     — Lush Rimbaud (from Poppy Z. Brite’s "Exquisite Corpse")

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k Anyway, that was one of the reasons she limited the time span for use k of the Neosporin.    you are totally missing the point, & so is she.

Ok, Ok, I was just trying to address the thousands of anti-Neosporin messages. I get the point. Neosporin = Bad. If that’s all I get criticized for I’m getting off pretty easy for a RAB newbie. And I’m still keeping my piercer. (I’m not counting the anti-fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue syndrome shit. I didn’t come to this newsgroup to have my diagnoses confirmed. ) kalipriestess "Do you worship a Goddess? Don’t tell me if you do. I hate those bitches,  all but Kali – at least when she breeds, she eats her young."     — Lush Rimbaud (from Poppy Z. Brite’s "Exquisite Corpse")

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Can I ask what you tell a patient to do for stitches?

That would absolutely depend on the situation. And what the doctor told me to do. But there are certainly situations where antibiotic ointments would be applied. You have to give me more parameters than that. I can’t answer any medical question that broad. kalipriestess "Do you worship a Goddess? Don’t tell me if you do. I hate those bitches,  all but Kali – at least when she breeds, she eats her young."     — Lush Rimbaud (from Poppy Z. Brite’s "Exquisite Corpse")

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(I’m not counting the anti-fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue syndrome shit. I didn’t come to this newsgroup to have my diagnoses confirmed. )

I’m curious.  How did your doctor "confirm" his diagnosis, especially on the Fibromyalgia.  I’m specifically asking which test — and not the battery of tests to rule out everything else. Kavin

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in my ear: | You need a medical degree and extensive experience in treating people | with my conditions before you start criticizing my doctor. Hell, just you don’t need a medical degree to criticize a doctor, or to say that diseases are overdiagnosed.  you need some sort of knowledge for the latter, but if my doctor slaps my ass or gives me zithromax for a hangnail, i can certainly walk away without a medical degree. it’s not rocket science, you know. cassie — "Too bad dark languages rarely survive." -Johnny Truant

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kalipriestess schrieb: Anyway, that was one of the reasons she limited the time span for use of the Neosporin.

http://www.apua.org Nina — C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                         Louis Pasteur http://www.chaotropic.net

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Question:

Hi, Francisco! Where ya been hiding? It’s good to see you again! Kelly C.;o)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am taking Lipitor, one 40 mg. tablet a day, it has brought the cholesterol level from 264 to 186 today. Ask your doctor, hope you get better. Francisco

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I may have to go on a chol lowering drug, I have heard in the news that some of them are very harmful… Is anyone using  a chol low. drug?  How well is it working and what are you taking? My arthritis is stablized with Enbrel. Polly

Hello Polly, and yes I take various meds for Cholesterol and other heart issues and they seem to be working just fine ( first reading was around the 7.5 mark and now down to 4.5 over the past 17 months which is fine). I take Tildium and Zorcor, no problems with either of them and feeling a lot more energentic. Have to go for a further ECG on Friday coming to check up on the aortic stenosis and the angina pec. but feeling optimistic that nothing too drastic is happening ( she says with everything crossed). My various forms of arthur are to be reveiwed in a couple of weeks so here’s hoping that they too are doing OK apart from the neck and shoulder pain which I attribute to the over zealousness of decorating LOL.. Good Luck and any meds that are prescribed for you and the cholesterol issue, then READ up very carefully and be aware of any problems ahead of time. Regards ConnieD.

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My husband was taking Mevacor which did a good job of lowering his cholesterol but had some unexpected side effects. He started having trouble retrieving nouns. If he wanted to say, "I’m going to the post office to mail a letter and then to the bank" he could have trouble to post office, letter or bank. And he was becoming more aggressive in traffic and more easily put out by other drivers. Before he was totally laid back. His doctor didn’t think it was the drug, but there is a NIH study being done at the University of California at San Diego investigating these type of side effects. Some studies indicate that when cholesterol is too low in an individual aggression can result. Wish I could give you the citations, but just got a new computer and dumped lots of stuff rather than transfer it to the new computer. I understand that if an individual has some of these side effects changing to another cholesterol drug may be the answer.

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I found the fax that NIH sent to me about the study at UCSD concerning statins and increased aggressive behaviors and impaired cognition. If any one wants a copy let me know. It is a five year study (1999-2004).

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Put me on your list…. the statin list that is. Thanks. Don W.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found the fax that NIH sent to me about the study at UCSD concerning statins and increased aggressive behaviors and impaired cognition. If any one wants a copy let me know. It is a five year study (1999-2004).

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It seems to me I heard somewhere that Polly wrote in article I may have to go on a chol lowering drug, I have heard in the news that some of them are very harmful… Is anyone using  a chol low. drug?  How well is it working and what are you taking?

Reading the responses maybe the question should be ‘is anybody NOT taking a chol lowering drug.’  :-) To open, I don’t have arthritis, so my experience isn’t typical for asa. A little over three years ago my cardiologist started me on Pravachol; my cholesterol was 240 or over, with a strong family history. Very soon he decided the results weren’t satisfactory so he fudged the facts enough to get me approved for Lipitor, 40mg.  My total cholesterol went as low as 130, then rose gradually.  At the last test it was around 150, with the next appointment a few weeks away. I haven’t had any side effects I can clearly attribute to Lipitor, but possibly there’s a tendency toward tired legs and a little tightness in the calves.  These could also be from running, golf, or just from aging. — Don

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My husband takes statins and seems to have become a lot more aggressive.      Could you please send me a copy of that study?    Thanks     Sue Sue To respond by e-mail, remove "NOSPAM" from my address.

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I may have to go on a chol lowering drug, I have heard in the news that some of them are very harmful… Is anyone using  a chol low. drug?  How well is it working and what are you taking? My arthritis is stablized with Enbrel. Polly

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said: I may have to go on a chol lowering drug, I have heard in the news that some of them are very harmful… Is anyone using  a chol low. drug?  How well is it working and what are you taking? My arthritis is stablized with Enbrel.

Has your TSH been tested? High cholesterol can go hand in hand with hypothyroidism, and when they’re connected, it can come down with effective thyroid treatment. ` Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris "I like you guys who want smaller government – you know, just small enough to fit in our bedrooms." Josh to Congressman Skinner, The West Wing

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I may have to go on a chol lowering drug, I have heard in the news that some of them are very harmful…

Bloodletting/venesection is KNOWN to lower cholesterol .. in fact is recommended in Medline to lower cholesterol.. and since the same treatment is used by those with excess iron .. and since iron IS found in those with arthritis .. it may be worth your while to question your doctor about the treatment .. with articles in hand ..? Who loves ya. Tom Is anyone using  a chol low. drug?  How well is it working and what are you taking? My arthritis is stablized with Enbrel. Polly

– Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

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I may have to go on a chol lowering drug, I have heard in the news that some of them are very harmful…

Hi, Polly, how are things out in SW Colorado?  I’ve taken Zocor now for about 3 years.  Only effect I’ve seen has been a lowering of my bad cholesterol and a raising of the good. — Be Well, Larry

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I am taking Lipitor, one 40 mg. tablet a day, it has brought the cholesterol level from 264 to 186 today. Ask your doctor, hope you get better. Francisco

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Hi Polly, I too take lipitor (10mg) and it has dropped my count to 178 from 268 in about 6 months. i have to go in for liver profile every 3 months. GaryZ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may have to go on a chol lowering drug, I have heard in the news that some of them are very harmful… Is anyone using  a chol low. drug?  How well is it working and what are you taking? My arthritis is stablized with Enbrel. Polly

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I may have to go on a chol lowering drug, I have heard in the news that some of them are very harmful…

The news media has greatly exaggerated the risks.  One statin drug, Baycol, was voluntary removed from the market by the manufacturer. Muscle deterioration is a very rare but known risk for all of the statin drugs, and Baycol was the worst offender (though the side affect was still very rare).  It was also one of the oldest of the statins and was withdrawn because safer alternatives are now readily available. It is important to realize that no drug is risk free.  What we need to do is understand the risks and learn how to minimize them.  In this case, any unusual fatigue or muscle weakness occurring after starting one of the statins should be reported to your physician immediately. Remember that a high cholesterol level is an important risk factor for heart disease, and that people with inflammatory arthritis are at an elevated risk for heart disease anyway.  So keeping cholesterol levels in line is extremely important.   Walt Hanks

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Question:

G’day Bob, What I find frustrating is that in my case the same food eaten at breakfast will produce vastly different readings to when it is eaten in the evening, most factors remaining the same. As well as that, often the same food eaten at the same times on different days will also produce different readings each time. As I responded to Jennifer, I sometimes wonder what the hell my body is doing. Sometimes I will go for weeks with my fasting bg over 130, then, for reasons unknown, it will be constantly below 120. It’s like a chess game! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In my opinion the best way to fight diabetes is to (1) Lose weight (2) maintain a strict diet (3) EXCERCISE and more EXCERCISE…. Then check for complications. — Henry M. Type II, Diagnosed 1994, Melbourne, Australia Henry, I agree with that but after my bypass I’ve lost 30 pounds (sounds good) but my BG control has gone to hell. I’m taking 145 units of Humalog 75/25 (75/25/45) with another 15 to 20 units of R every day and it still shoots up to 300 in the AM. Before the bypass I took 120 units (75/45) no R and had few problems. The evil Dr’s implanted a sugar b*mb in my chest — Bob Visit my information & link page at (New URL) http://twilight.webbernet.net/~gooteebob news.newusers.questions Moderation Team Worker

– Henry M. Type II, Diagnosed 1994, Melbourne, Australia

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I was generalising, Jennifer. What I was suggesting is a starting point for a newly diagnosed diabetic. I myself find it quite frustrating to find that what works one day, doesn’t work the next. I go through bursts of frequent bg measurement to find what the hell is going on at different times. Not only diabetes does different things to different people, but it’s effects change even for one person at different times. Monitoring your bg and other factors such as cholesterol, trygs, protein in urine and many others is vital. Frequent fine-tuning is necessary constantly, as what medication to take, when to excercise and what to eat. You are indeed fortunate to have a HbA1c of 4.8. My last three, from the most current,  have been 6.1, 5.8 and 5.8. I try to reduce my carbs whenever I can, and I take a combination of Glyade (a sulph) and Diabex (Metformin), as well as riding a bike for 40 minutes most days, but I cannot achieve a better reading. The thing that worries me is that so many people I know think that a HbA1c of 7.3 or so is quite OK… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re saying the best way to fight diabetes is to keep tight control of your blood glucose levels then I agree. If you are saying the ONLY way to keep tight control of your glucose levels is to (1) Lose weight (2) maintain a strict diet (3) exercise a lot… then I’m not sure I can agree with it all. I was dx’d in June of ‘99. I did not lose weight, my weight has stayed the same for many years, a shade over 300. I do not exercise excessively (though for other reasons than diabetes I try to something each week) I do follow a lower carb eating plan, but have been able to keep tight control with a few food excursions every now and again. My A1c’s, taken every three months have been under 4.8 since Oct. of ‘99, almost two years now. So.  In my opinion, the best way to fight diabetes is to experiment until you find a program of food, exercise and if need be meds, that you can live with, that keeps your blood glucose levels in tight control. Each of us will find that it is a slightly different program than the diabetic next door… I’m glad you found yours. Jennifer In my opinion the best way to fight diabetes is to (1) Lose weight (2) maintain a strict diet (3) EXCERCISE and more EXCERCISE…. Then check for complications. — Henry M. Type II, Diagnosed 1994, Melbourne, Australia

– Henry M. Type II, Diagnosed 1994, Melbourne, Australia

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Sounds serious for both Bob & Henry – Good article here for problems with Humalog – http://www.nfb.org/vodold/vow983.htm

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I lost 78 pounds and my blood sugar got worse. I had to go on insulin along with Prandin to acceive any control. Watch carbs seems to help. Joan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re saying the best way to fight diabetes is to keep tight control of your blood glucose levels then I agree. If you are saying the ONLY way to keep tight control of your glucose levels is to (1) Lose weight (2) maintain a strict diet (3) exercise a lot… then I’m not sure I can agree with it all. I was dx’d in June of ‘99. I did not lose weight, my weight has stayed the same for many years, a shade over 300. I do not exercise excessively (though for other reasons than diabetes I try to something each week) I do follow a lower carb eating plan, but have been able to keep tight control with a few food excursions every now and again. My A1c’s, taken every three months have been under 4.8 since Oct. of ‘99, almost two years now. So.  In my opinion, the best way to fight diabetes is to experiment until you find a program of food, exercise and if need be meds, that you can live with, that keeps your blood glucose levels in tight control. Each of us will find that it is a slightly different program than the diabetic next door… I’m glad you found yours. Jennifer In my opinion the best way to fight diabetes is to (1) Lose weight (2) maintain a strict diet (3) EXCERCISE and more EXCERCISE…. Then check for complications. — Henry M. Type II, Diagnosed 1994, Melbourne, Australia

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re saying the best way to fight diabetes is to keep tight control of your blood glucose levels then I agree. If you are saying the ONLY way to keep tight control of your glucose levels is to (1) Lose weight (2) maintain a strict diet (3) exercise a lot… then I’m not sure I can agree with it all. I was dx’d in June of ‘99. I did not lose weight, my weight has stayed the same for many years, a shade over 300. I do not exercise excessively (though for other reasons than diabetes I try to something each week) I do follow a lower carb eating plan, but have been able to keep tight control with a few food excursions every now and again. My A1c’s, taken every three months have been under 4.8 since Oct. of ‘99, almost two years now. So.  In my opinion, the best way to fight diabetes is to experiment until you find a program of food, exercise and if need be meds, that you can live with, that keeps your blood glucose levels in tight control. Each of us will find that it is a slightly different program than the diabetic next door… I’m glad you found yours. Jennifer

I believe everything you have said, but respectfully suggest your experience is an anomaly compared with / against standardly accepted regimens for treating diabetes in the medical community.  Your experience almost questions the validity of your diagnosis — not saying you’re NOT diabetic, but at least one with quite different symptoms / characteristics than most of the rest of us.  And, as you know, diabetes comes in widely assorted flavors. I wonder what a newly diagnosed diabetic may take away from here with the seemingly contradictory guidance from the two messages I have read.   With due respect, I believe that Henry’s counsel is most appropriate for the vast majority of diabetics.  It meshes with everything else I have ever read and experienced in over twenty years as a Type 2.  On the other hand, your guidance with respect to food selections and diet are as solid as a rock, as is the guidance you regularly give newbies on food selections. Diet will not do it for everyone, Jennifer, even though it can be a big help for anyone.  Even people that don’t weigh  300 pounds would do well to get their weight down closer to normal levels — whether they are diabetic or not, in the interest of lessening the potential for cardiovascular and other health-related problems.  And, although the focus here may well target carbohydrates and other foods that can affect blood glucose, a more comprehensive diet should include considerations of sodium, fat, cholesterol and a broader range of potentially detrimental influences. My wife was thought to be diabetic a couple of years back, but her problem was determined to be hypothyroidism.  Her bg measured 435, which produced the original diagnosis.   With proper thyroid treatment, and by using a reasonable diet, she has no "diabetes symptoms" today.  You might want to confirm your diabetes diagnosis — just as we did in her case. Best wishes, Charles Evans

Response:

In my opinion the best way to fight diabetes is to (1) Lose weight (2) maintain a strict diet (3) EXCERCISE and more EXCERCISE…. Then check for complications. — Henry M. Type II, Diagnosed 1994, Melbourne, Australia

Henry, I agree with that but after my bypass I’ve lost 30 pounds (sounds good) but my BG control has gone to hell. I’m taking 145 units of Humalog 75/25 (75/25/45) with another 15 to 20 units of R every day and it still shoots up to 300 in the AM. Before the bypass I took 120 units (75/45) no R and had few problems. The evil Dr’s implanted a sugar b*mb in my chest — Bob Visit my information & link page at (New URL) http://twilight.webbernet.net/~gooteebob news.newusers.questions Moderation Team Worker

Response:

Charles… Thank you for your thoughtful and respectful reply.  I appreciate it. I do believe I’m your garden variety T2. I’ve had all the tests… thyroid is fine.  I’m an insulin resistant, apple shaped, diabetic.  Thankfully, I’ve never had BP problems, as a matter of fact they’re a bit low.  Cholesterol bounces between 180 – 205, with Tris pretty normal.  HDL could be higher, and I’m using some "wine" therapy to raise them. It’s enjoyable! My weight is my weight.  I have wasted too much time, energy and tears in this life trying to change it.  Years ago, before my DM dx, I decided I would live my life as healthily as I could, and where the scale settled was it’s own business.  I have to say, the mental health that I gained by that decision will most likely add back any of the years I may lose due to the bigger dress size ; ) The reason I responded to Henry’s post is because I fear that many fat diabetics will throw in the towel if they think the ONLY way to good BG control is weight loss.  Too many of them have tried and tried and tried and failed and failed and failed to keep lost weight off.  I’m not saying people shouldn’t try… if that’s what they want to do.  I just wanted to present the case that you can concentrate on the numbers from your meter instead of the scale, and live a good diabetic life.    Oh, and I’m not the only one.  I know many fat diabetics who have great BG numbers, who don’t weight loss diet. Best of health. Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe everything you have said, but respectfully suggest your experience is an anomaly compared with / against standardly accepted regimens for treating diabetes in the medical community.  Your experience almost questions the validity of your diagnosis — not saying you’re NOT diabetic, but at least one with quite different symptoms / characteristics than most of the rest of us.  And, as you know, diabetes comes in widely assorted flavors. I wonder what a newly diagnosed diabetic may take away from here with the seemingly contradictory guidance from the two messages I have read.   With due respect, I believe that Henry’s counsel is most appropriate for the vast majority of diabetics.  It meshes with everything else I have ever read and experienced in over twenty years as a Type 2.  On the other hand, your guidance with respect to food selections and diet are as solid as a rock, as is the guidance you regularly give newbies on food selections. Diet will not do it for everyone, Jennifer, even though it can be a big help for anyone.  Even people that don’t weigh  300 pounds would do well to get their weight down closer to normal levels — whether they are diabetic or not, in the interest of lessening the potential for cardiovascular and other health-related problems.  And, although the focus here may well target carbohydrates and other foods that can affect blood glucose, a more comprehensive diet should include considerations of sodium, fat, cholesterol and a broader range of potentially detrimental influences. My wife was thought to be diabetic a couple of years back, but her problem was determined to be hypothyroidism.  Her bg measured 435, which produced the original diagnosis.   With proper thyroid treatment, and by using a reasonable diet, she has no "diabetes symptoms" today.  You might want to confirm your diabetes diagnosis — just as we did in her case. Best wishes, Charles Evans

Response:

In my opinion the best way to fight diabetes is to (1) Lose weight (2) maintain a strict diet (3) EXCERCISE and more EXCERCISE…. Then check for complications. — Henry M. Type II, Diagnosed 1994, Melbourne, Australia

Response:

If you’re saying the best way to fight diabetes is to keep tight control of your blood glucose levels then I agree. If you are saying the ONLY way to keep tight control of your glucose levels is to (1) Lose weight (2) maintain a strict diet (3) exercise a lot… then I’m not sure I can agree with it all. I was dx’d in June of ‘99. I did not lose weight, my weight has stayed the same for many years, a shade over 300. I do not exercise excessively (though for other reasons than diabetes I try to something each week) I do follow a lower carb eating plan, but have been able to keep tight control with a few food excursions every now and again. My A1c’s, taken every three months have been under 4.8 since Oct. of ‘99, almost two years now. So.  In my opinion, the best way to fight diabetes is to experiment until you find a program of food, exercise and if need be meds, that you can live with, that keeps your blood glucose levels in tight control. Each of us will find that it is a slightly different program than the diabetic next door… I’m glad you found yours. Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In my opinion the best way to fight diabetes is to (1) Lose weight (2) maintain a strict diet (3) EXCERCISE and more EXCERCISE…. Then check for complications. — Henry M. Type II, Diagnosed 1994, Melbourne, Australia

Response:

Maybe they will.

Shades of LBJ .. If I  were you Michel .. I might not speak to this nutbar again.. Worse things have happened than guys like HIM sending people to your home .. Guys who nonchalantly pick dogs up by their ears .. rig elections.. and send kids to jail for eighteen years for possession of a joint are not unheard of in THEIR state .. Come to think of it .. they commonly let their cattle starve to death .. Duh .. "just couldn’t afford the food.." .. I think Gomer .. came from around there didn’t he? Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

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Question:

Well, we went to the doc’s today & he said that Logan has a minor, common skin infection.  I told him I’ve never seen such a thing (but what do I know, first kid:) & he gave me some bactroban cream to put on it a few times per day. Interesting!  You learn something new everyday! Mary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I noticed that my ds’s eye had a well-defined red outline around it on the skin only, not on the eye itself.  It’s not a wide outline, maybe 1/8" at the most, but it looks almost like dry, chapped skin, too. This isn’t what pink eye looks like, is it?  I’m not sure.  He has been rubbing it alot and his other eye (after a couple of days with the one eye like this) has also started to get a little red.  It may be because of the increased rubbing he’s doing. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this? TIA, — Mary http://home.earthlink.net/~mtlhill/

Response:

However do you keep them all straight and doses on time and all!  And, on top of that you are keeping your kids’ meds straight, too! You must feel like a nurse or dispensary.  I hope that as your kids grow they grow out of most [if not all] of their allergies and your’s decrease in severity, at least.

I discovered that doctors are sympathetic to bad organizational skills and will prescribe either once a day or twice a day meds. So, if I’m brushing my teeth and a row of pill bottles are sitting there chanting ‘take me, take me’, I remember. If my schedule deviates even slightly, I’m toast. Kids take meds in the AM, so the same holds true for them. You know, the family that squirts steriods up their noses together and swallows claritin together are the families that are really really close. Marjorie

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If it is pink eye or something else, I would make sure that you washed your childs hands constantly until you find out what it is.  That way you won’t have 2 pinkeyes.

Response:

If it is pink eye or something else, I would make sure that you washed your childs hands constantly until you find out what it is.  That way you won’t have 2 pinkeyes.

That’s sooo hard to avoid if it’s pinkeye.  Even if, in sleep, a child somehow manages not to rubs his or her eyes, the fluids present on the pillow usually do the trick. Banty

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something else, I would make sure that you washed your childs hands constantly until you find out what it is.  That way you won’t have 2 pinkeyes. That’s sooo hard to avoid if it’s pinkeye.  Even if, in sleep, a child somehow manages not to rubs his or her eyes, the fluids present on the pillow usually do the trick. Banty

Yes, but you should wash the childs hands anyway as a preventative measure. The two pinkeyes was just kind of a joke.

Response:

just something else to throw in, could be blocked tear duct, although my son did have more goopy eyes, he also was constantly rubbing them causing red underneath.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I noticed that my ds’s eye had a well-defined red outline around it on the skin only, not on the eye itself.  It’s not a wide outline, maybe 1/8" at the most, but it looks almost like dry, chapped skin, too. This isn’t what pink eye looks like, is it?  I’m not sure.  He has been rubbing it alot and his other eye (after a couple of days with the one eye like this) has also started to get a little red.  It may be because of the increased rubbing he’s doing. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this? TIA, — Mary http://home.earthlink.net/~mtlhill/

Response:

Because of a congenetal heart problem in our family we avoid antihistamines like the plague. But the kids are medicated to the hilt and are still sniffling. I hate this time of year. I’m on 8 (yes, you read that right) different meds right now to combat my allergies which exacerbate my asthma. I’m feeling great, but it takes forever to deal with this many meds every day.

However do you keep them all straight and doses on time and all!  And, on top of that you are keeping your kids’ meds straight, too!  You must feel like a nurse or dispensary.  I hope that as your kids grow they grow out of most [if not all] of their allergies and your’s decrease in severity, at least. -Aula, married to someone who had severe allergies of all sorts until he began thyroid treatment and they suddenly improved significantly

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Marjorie, mum to two allergic kids who hate eye drops with a passion. If it’s really miserable bring it up to your ped.  There’s a trend to treat allergies more and more symptomatically to avoid the systemic effects of antihistimines, so eye drops and nose drops are prescribed.

Our Ped is intimately familiar with our allergies. Intimately! Both kids are on claritin, both kids are on flonaise, and both kids have eye drops (different ones, though). If your ped has been avoiding prescribing antihistimines, you might find your family doing better on them rather than follow this course.  Bring it up to him or her – there are probably other options.

Because of a congenetal heart problem in our family we avoid antihistamines like the plague. But the kids are medicated to the hilt and are still sniffling. I hate this time of year. I’m on 8 (yes, you read that right) different meds right now to combat my allergies which exacerbate my asthma. I’m feeling great, but it takes forever to deal with this many meds every day. Marjorie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Banty

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My daughter just started to get this last year.  The pediatrician said it is an allergy.  He prescribed a cream for it. If this was pink eye, your son’s eye would be crusted shut in the morning. The whites of his eyes would be very red and his eye would be oozing. Sometimes a person with pink eye can’t tolerate the light and has a tendency to half shut the infected eye. You don’t say his age but with toddlers, if they have congestion it backs up into their eyes.  There would be a green discharge in the eyes and they could wake up with an eye crusted shut.  But the white of their eye would not be as red as pink eye. Your case sounds like an allergy but you need to see a Dr. Mary Ellen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I noticed that my ds’s eye had a well-defined red outline around it on the skin only, not on the eye itself.  It’s not a wide outline, maybe 1/8" at the most, but it looks almost like dry, chapped skin, too. This isn’t what pink eye looks like, is it?  I’m not sure.  He has been rubbing it alot and his other eye (after a couple of days with the one eye like this) has also started to get a little red.  It may be because of the increased rubbing he’s doing. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this? TIA, — Mary http://home.earthlink.net/~mtlhill/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I noticed that my ds’s eye had a well-defined red outline around it on the skin only, not on the eye itself.  It’s not a wide outline, maybe 1/8" at the most, but it looks almost like dry, chapped skin, too. This isn’t what pink eye looks like, is it?  I’m not sure. He has been rubbing it alot and his other eye (after a couple of days with the one eye like this) has also started to get a little red.  It may be because of the increased rubbing he’s doing. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this? Could be allergies, could be the beginning of pinkeye. I’d take him to the doctor and let them examine his eyes. If it’s allergies they’ll give him drops and your nice quiet life will turn into a living hell several times a day. Whomever invented eye drops for kids ought to be shot. Marjorie, mum to two allergic kids who hate eye drops with a passion.

If it’s really miserable bring it up to your ped.  There’s a trend to treat allergies more and more symptomatically to avoid the systemic effects of antihistimines, so eye drops and nose drops are prescribed.   If your ped has been avoiding prescribing antihistimines, you might find your family doing better on them rather than follow this course.  Bring it up to him or her – there are probably other options. Banty

Response:

I noticed that my ds’s eye had a well-defined red outline around it on the skin only, not on the eye itself.  It’s not a wide

outline, maybe 1/8" at the most, but it looks almost like dry, chapped skin, too. This isn’t what pink eye looks like, is it?  I’m not sure. He has been rubbing it alot and his other eye (after a couple of days with the one eye like this) has also started to get a little red.  It may be because of the increased rubbing he’s doing. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this?

Could be allergies, could be the beginning of pinkeye. I’d take him to the doctor and let them examine his eyes. If it’s allergies they’ll give him drops and your nice quiet life will turn into a living hell several times a day. Whomever invented eye drops for kids ought to be shot. Marjorie, mum to two allergic kids who hate eye drops with a passion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TIA, — Mary http://home.earthlink.net/~mtlhill/

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I noticed that my ds’s eye had a well-defined red outline around it on the skin only, not on the eye itself.  It’s not a wide outline, maybe 1/8" at the most, but it looks almost like dry, chapped skin, too. This isn’t what pink eye looks like, is it?  I’m not sure.  He has been rubbing it alot and his other eye (after a couple of days with the one eye like this) has also started to get a little red.  It may be because of the increased rubbing he’s doing. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this? TIA,

Probably not pink eye.  "Pink eye" is conjuctivitis, which is an inflammation of the whites of the eye.  You see pink, sometimes finely red-streaked, starting from the outsides moving in.  The eye tears a lot and forms a lot of extra mucous, such that the eye is "glued shut" in the morning.  (Been there, done that  yuk!) Others are right – pink eye is so contagious I’d have it checked by a nurse or ped (the appearance of pink eye is pretty classic) before going out where there are many other people.  (Of course, I’m posting on Easter morning, might be too late.) From your description and the season, I’d guess seasonal allergies.  But if it persist at all, always consult a pediatrician. Banty

Response:

Thanks!  With that description of pink eye, I guess we can still go an have Easter dinner tomorrow!  Doesn’t sound like that at all… Mary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pink eye always has a pussy discharge and weeps alot especially at night which causes the eyelashes to stick together and is terribly itchy.  It doesn’t sound like like pinkeye but you should still go to the pediatrician.   Hope everything turns out all right! Cymrucelt

Response:

Ear infections can cause what looks like a pussy discharge around the eye too. Frankly I’d act like it is pink eye by making sure nobody gets infected by ds, and visiting Pediatrician on Monday. I been there so often this last 6 months they are naming a wing after my 2 sons.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I noticed that my ds’s eye had a well-defined red outline around it on the skin only, not on the eye itself.  It’s not a wide outline, maybe 1/8" at the most, but it looks almost like dry, chapped skin, too. This isn’t what pink eye looks like, is it?  I’m not sure.  He has been rubbing it alot and his other eye (after a couple of days with the one eye like this) has also started to get a little red.  It may be because of the increased rubbing he’s doing. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this? TIA, — Mary http://home.earthlink.net/~mtlhill/

Response:

I noticed that my ds’s eye had a well-defined red outline around it on the skin only, not on the eye itself.  It’s not a wide outline, maybe 1/8" at the most, but it looks almost like dry, chapped skin, too. This isn’t what pink eye looks like, is it?  I’m not sure.  He has been rubbing it alot and his other eye (after a couple of days with the one eye like this) has also started to get a little red.  It may be because of the increased rubbing he’s doing. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this? TIA, — Mary http://home.earthlink.net/~mtlhill/

Response:

Pink eye always has a pussy discharge and weeps alot especially at night which causes the eyelashes to stick together and is terribly itchy.  It doesn’t sound like like pinkeye but you should still go to the pediatrician.   Hope everything turns out all right! Cymrucelt

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know there are a lot of big gals in this group (I’m gonna be one soon if I don’t get this flare under control) and I need some info.  I have two clients from HAMP (homeless alternative medical project) who I’m shopping for on a very limited budget and I am shocked at how much plus size clothes cost.  I’m trying ebay and have found a few things but I want to know if anyone has any good on-line suggestions or suggestions for shops in the Bay area that are less expensive than Macy’s or even mervyns.  Why is it that plus size clothes cost so much! Why aren’t there any thrift stores that specialize in plus size clothing? We have such a great donation closet but we never get any big clothes. I’m sure the resourses are out there and I just am not finding them-any help would be appreciated, Melinda

have you given your local chapters of Weight Watchers a call? or Jenny Craig? they might have a few ‘clients’ that have lost significant amounts of weight and have clothing to spare.   Worth a try? Uv(Rubinesque)

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Because big clothes cost so much, we wear them til they arent even fit for the rag bag.

Yup!  :)  Even if you can find something that fits, you have to take potluck with the style and colors.  Who EVER decided that economy sized folks would want to buy a TIGHT LIME GREEN T-SHIRT for $18.99 and this was at Wal-Mart!!!  I haven’t been in a boutique for so long I’d probably faint if I looked at the price tags on their plus size ready to wear.  This year I’ve been sewing my blouses.  I have a classic pattern with lotsa sleeves and collar variations, and I wait until Wallyworld has a fabric that I like on sale for a dollar or 2 a yard.  As an added bonus I close them with snaps instead of buttons — usually sew some cute buttons over the snaps just for looks. I realize this solution won’t work for homeless people, but maybe you could get a sewing club to make and donate them, if volunteers donated the patterns, fabric and supplies? Becky

Response:

I’m Rubenesque, too. What has worked in this area ( Central Florida) is a program where the Chamber of Commerce, Junior League, Assn. of  University Women and other professional women’s groups are asked to donate their out of date/style business suits and dresses. Really nice work clothes, shoes, purses….to help women dress for success for good paying jobs. They get a tax deduction and your ladies get clothes that they otherwise can’t afford. There’s a similar program for these professional women’s daughters where they donate their previous year’s prom gowns to be recycled for low income teens the next year. That’s called the ‘Cinderella Club’ <g If you don’t already have these linds of programs available in the Bay Area…mebbe it’s time to start ‘em. If you do, they prolly will sell some of theirs very cut-rate, since it’s donated clothing. Hope this helps your ladies Hugs from Rosie — "If you wanna get it done, you gotta fight for yourself." — Meat Loaf, Bat Outta Hell II

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know there are a lot of big gals in this group (I’m gonna be one soon if I don’t get this flare under control) and I need some info.  I have two clients from HAMP (homeless alternative medical project) who I’m shopping for on a very limited budget and I am shocked at how much plus size clothes cost.  I’m trying ebay and have found a few things but I want to know if anyone has any good on-line suggestions or suggestions for shops in the Bay area that are less expensive than Macy’s or even mervyns.  Why is it that plus size clothes cost so much! Why aren’t there any thrift stores that specialize in plus size clothing? We have such a great donation closet but we never get any big clothes. I’m sure the resourses are out there and I just am not finding them-any help would be appreciated, Melinda have you given your local chapters of Weight Watchers a call? or Jenny Craig? they might have a few ‘clients’ that have lost significant amounts of weight and have clothing to spare.   Worth a try? Uv(Rubinesque)

Response:

said: Even if you can find something that fits, you have to take potluck with the style and colors.  Who EVER decided that economy sized folks would want to buy a TIGHT LIME GREEN T-SHIRT for $18.99 and this was at Wal-Mart!!!

I’m going to be the maid of honor for my best friend this August. We found me the *perfect* dress, about half a size too small. And because of its cut, it’s extremely flattering. It seems like such a waste — it’s the perfect cut and style for someone over size 16, yet that’s where it stops. (I wear 18 in dresses, and 20 in pants. This is a 16, but fits almost exactly, only a tiny bit tight.) I just look at the dress and think of all the women who wear a 20 or 22 who won’t get to wear this perfect dress that would look so good on them, because it stops at 16. Grr. So because it’s otherwise perfect, I’ve started a diet, and I do NOT diet. (I’ve got a major nasty case of Hashimoto’s thyroid disease *and* an eating disorder history — my metabolism’s wacked, and focusing too much on food can set off my obsession, so I’ve got to have a highly individual eating plan to lose weight.) I only do it knowing that I don’t look bad squeezing into the dress, so if I don’t lose a pound, it’ll still be okay. (I stopped gaining about 6 months ago, as my thyroid treatment started kicking in.) If I lose 10 lbs, I’ll fit in perfectly. If I lose more than 20, it’ll be too big, incentive for me not to try to lose fast. And even when it fits, I’ll still be grumpy at the designers for stopping at 16. . Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris

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Melinda I lost the original due to some sort of crash but I shop for my bottom half at a Catherine’s here and they have great sales all the time. I bought two pair of shorts there before our cruise for $1.50 a piece. I had to make tucks in the waistband because they were a size too big but for that price……  I bought the skirt I wore last year gimpfest dress-up party there for $10.50. Here is there web site store locator http://www.catherines.com/catherines/StoreLocator/index.html I am such a triangle body shape — my top is a petite size 8 and my bottom a women’s petite size 0 or 1X. Hard to shop for. Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We have such a great donation closet but we never get any big clothes.  I’m sure the resourses are out there and I just am not finding them-any help would be appreciated, Melinda, I sell on ebay and stick mainly to plus size clothing. I have several area thrift stores that I frequent weekly (always on half price tag change day of course!) If you give me their sizes and a budget, I bet I could have them a pretty complete wardrobe in a week or two. I am pretty sure even thrift stores are less expensive in my area than yours. I’d be happy to ship them out to you. ~KJ Akron, Ohio http://arthritisinsight.com Knowledge is power…support is essential. My daughter, Student Ambassador: http://members.aol.com/krissyjo/ambassador.html See my pond: http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/ponds.html

Response:

Bob Keshan (Capt. Kangaroo) lives (I think he’s still alive) in Babylon, New York  (Long Island)

Response:

Hi Jo, I grew up in the north Central Valley In fact, I thought Captain Kangaroo lived in Chico, because we got him on KHSL . Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris

That is weird, cause I grew up in the suburbs of Washington DC and he really did live a few blocks from me.  (Unless I’m confused again and thinking of some other kiddy program star) — Jo Firey

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know there are a lot of big gals in this group (I’m gonna be one soon if I don’t get this flare under control) and I need some info.  I have two clients from HAMP (homeless alternative medical project) who I’m shopping for on a very limited budget and I am shocked at how much plus size clothes cost.  I’m trying ebay and have found a few things but I want to know if anyone has any good on-line suggestions or suggestions for shops in the Bay area that are less expensive than Macy’s or even mervyns.  Why is it that plus size clothes cost so much! Why aren’t there any thrift stores that specialize in plus size clothing? We have such a great donation closet but we never get any big clothes. I’m sure the resourses are out there and I just am not finding them-any help would be appreciated, Melinda

Wow.  For a simple request this thread sure got heated up.  Yes, plus size clothing is expensive. Far beyond the extra cost for the extra material required and the extra durability required. Face it.  Big people (and I am one) are very hard on their clothes.  And many of us tend to really wear them out once we find them so that cuts into the used clothing thrift shop potential. You didn’t say if you are trying to dress your clients for anything beyond daily living such as job interviews.  But I’d guess that if they are homeless or near homeless that durability and easy care are a major concern as well.  Dry cleaning etc are out of the question. You need to forget Macy’s and Mervyns.  Target is more reasonable than Mervyns and Wal-Mart is more reasonable that Target.  KMart can be OK but if the quality is too poor  that doesn’t help. Check out Avenue and Lane Bryant.  And tell them who you are shopping for and ask for a discount.  Find out what they do with out of season clothes they take off sale. A lot of churches have clothes closets available.  Call a few.  And try making calls to the leaders of local weight loss groups.  While I do wear most of my stuff out thoroughly, like everyone else there are a few things I’ve bought thinking it would fit someday that are still new when I give up and give them away.  You might even get yourself invited to a Weight Watchers group to try to talk them into "sponsoring" someone by buying an outfit or wardrobe. Our local women’s shelter does a good job of getting professional women to sponsor individuals who are trying to get at least one interview outfit together. — Jo Firey

Response:

said: Wow.  For a simple request this thread sure got heated up.  Yes, plus size clothing is expensive. Far beyond the extra cost for the extra material required and the extra durability required.

I think part of it is that designers think they won’t sell as much as they do their more average sizes (for their definition of average — 8 or so,  not the size 14 average for North America) so they don’t make the quantity, and consider it (true or otherwise) more expensive to make the clothes. In addition, they can *get* more, because non-standard sized people have fewer choices. My primary lustpumpkin is 6′4" and has arms and legs proportionate to a person 7′ tall. He can’t shop for clothes in most catalogs or department stores. They don’t all have XXLT or size 38 sleeves. So he pays premium prices at big clothes stores **because they can** — where else is he gonna go? Check out Avenue and Lane Bryant.  And tell them who you are shopping for and ask for a discount.  Find out what they do with out of season clothes they take off sale.

Lots of them go to stores like Ross, which can have very good prices, but are hellish to shop in, as clothes hang on the wrong racks, the aisles and spaces between racks are barely narrow enough to walk down for my medium-fat size, and the lines are long and mismanaged. (And for those of us who use wheelchairs or walkers, forget it — you’ll never manage the Racks of Hell, with barely enough room for two thin and mobile people to pass one another.) A lot of churches have clothes closets available.  Call a few.  And try making calls to the leaders of local weight loss groups.  While I do wear most of my stuff out thoroughly, like everyone else there are a few things I’ve bought thinking it would fit someday that are still new when I give up and give them away.  You might even get yourself invited to a Weight Watchers group to try to talk them into "sponsoring" someone by buying an outfit or wardrobe.

If you know any places where "12 step groups" meet, post something there, too. Some of those people have been homeless, and in the case of folks going to Overeaters Anonymous meetings, some have been fat and lost weight, and will have extra clothes. Jo Firey

Hi Jo, I grew up in the north Central Valley In fact, I thought Captain Kangaroo lived in Chico, because we got him on KHSL . Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris

Response:

I’m shopping for on a very limited budget and I am shocked at how much plus size clothes cost.

Aint it awful? We have such a great donation closet but we never get any big clothes.

Because big clothes cost so much, we wear them til they arent even fit for the rag bag. Check out consignment stores, not just thrift stores.  They may cost more than thrift stores, but far less than off the rack. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

Melinda, You may or may not know I have been doing the weight watchers thing. There has been much recent discussion about "what to do with clothes once you shrink out of them." Please give me details (email if you want) and I will ask for donations for ya. There are a lot of women of all different sizes who have some pretty nice clothes to get rid of as they lose weight. Aim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know there are a lot of big gals in this group (I’m gonna be one soon if I don’t get this flare under control) and I need some info.  I have two clients from HAMP (homeless alternative medical project) who I’m shopping for on a very limited budget and I am shocked at how much plus size clothes cost.  I’m trying ebay and have found a few things but I want to know if anyone has any good on-line suggestions or suggestions for shops in the Bay area that are less expensive than Macy’s or even mervyns.  Why is it that plus size clothes cost so much! Why aren’t there any thrift stores that specialize in plus size clothing? We have such a great donation closet but we never get any big clothes.  I’m sure the resourses are out there and I just am not finding them-any help would be appreciated, Melinda

To reply via email, make sure to remove the spam protection from my address! It should read:  aimgrrrl (at) mindspring (dot) com

Response:

I know there are a lot of big gals in this group (I’m gonna be one soon if I don’t get this flare under control) and I need some info.  I have two clients from HAMP (homeless alternative medical project) who I’m shopping for on a very limited budget and I am shocked at how much plus size clothes cost.  I’m trying ebay and have found a few things but I want to know if anyone has any good on-line suggestions or suggestions for shops in the Bay area that are less expensive than Macy’s or even mervyns.  Why is it that plus size clothes cost so much! Why aren’t there any thrift stores that specialize in plus size clothing? We have such a great donation closet but we never get any big clothes.  I’m sure the resourses are out there and I just am not finding them-any help would be appreciated, Melinda

Response:

We have such a great donation closet but we never get any big clothes.  I’m sure the resourses are out there and I just am not finding them-any help would be appreciated,

Melinda, I sell on ebay and stick mainly to plus size clothing. I have several area thrift stores that I frequent weekly (always on half price tag change day of course!) If you give me their sizes and a budget, I bet I could have them a pretty complete wardrobe in a week or two. I am pretty sure even thrift stores are less expensive in my area than yours. I’d be happy to ship them out to you. ~KJ Akron, Ohio http://arthritisinsight.com Knowledge is power…support is essential. My daughter, Student Ambassador: http://members.aol.com/krissyjo/ambassador.html See my pond: http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/ponds.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know there are a lot of big gals in this group (I’m gonna be one soon if I don’t get this flare under control) and I need some info.  I have two clients from HAMP (homeless alternative medical project) who I’m shopping for on a very limited budget and I am shocked at how much plus size clothes cost.  I’m trying ebay and have found a few things but I want to know if anyone has any good on-line suggestions or suggestions for shops in the Bay area that are less expensive than Macy’s or even mervyns.  Why is it that plus size clothes cost so much! Why aren’t there any thrift stores that specialize in plus size clothing? We have such a great donation closet but we never get any big clothes.  I’m sure the resourses are out there and I just am not finding them-any help would be appreciated, Melinda

Found these sites: http://www.plussizeoutlet.com/ http://www.alight.com/promoPages/Promo_Sale5102550.asp http://www.sonic.net/~rtnc/lytton.html http://www.sonic.net/~rtnc/plus.html JDShine

Response:

I’m trying ebay and have found a few things but I want to know if anyone has any good on-line suggestions or suggestions for shops in the Bay area that are less expensive than Macy’s or even mervyns.  Why is it that plus size clothes cost so much! Why aren’t there any thrift stores that specialize in plus size clothing?

I’ve gotten some reasonably good stuff at Walmart, as long as I’m not looking for anything especially elegant. . Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris

Response:

Question:

Hi Ellen Re: Doctors’ attitudes…

EVERYONE deserves to be taken seriously. Period.  And if that’s not what your dr thinks, it’s time to register with another, more sympathetic doctor.  I know they’re always pushed for time etc, and don’t necessarily have the time to spend in discussing in depth lots of things – but that doesn’t mean that bits and pieces can’t be talked about each time you see her, or that she disregards your own feelings about things.  I think doctors these days realise how much the mental can affect the physical – and it’s part of their remit to explore both, regardless of whether they’d rather concentrate purely on the physical.

Yes.  But what Ellen described wasn’t a consultation.  It was a discussion in reception.  As Betsy said maybe her reaction was understandable. Ellen, if your doctor is CONSISTENTLY like this then, yes, Fiona is right, you should get a more empathetic doctor. —                                          ~*~ ‘And there’s too much going on But it’s calm under the waves, in the blue of my oblivion Under the waves, in the blue of my oblivion’                                           *~*

Response:

Hi Ellen Re: Doctors’ attitudes… I _also_ find going to the doc and _talking_ hard.  Easier, if it’s something like a chest infection etc – ie physical, but i still feel like i’m making a huge fuss and taking up time that could be better spent on someone else.  Mental health-wise it’s even worse…..but my GP has been just incredible.  For the past few months i’ve had to make regular appointments to keep tabs on how i’m doing depression and ed-wise – and there’s been a couple of physical things in there as well, coincidentally. I _still_ feel embarrassed about ‘just’ going for depression/ed – but he’s made me feel a lot more able to talk – just his general welcoming attitude and friendly and empathetic outlook.  And yes, i know that he _does_ take me seriously, and as a result i can now talk openly about stuff like feeling suicidal (not necessarily about to _do_ anything about it, just feeling that way), knowing that he’s not going to panic and have me admitted.  And i also know now that if i really _do_ feel extremely bad and out of control, i can go to him, he knows the background and me, and knows that if i say it’s really bad, it really _is_.  And it makes _such_ a difference.  I’ve been seeing this GP for about 10 years – but it’s only in the last year that i’ve actually been able to talk to him.  _He’s_ always been the same,though – it’s me who’s summoned up the courage to speak, and it’s been well worth it. So i’d say that if you feel awkward with your current doc – how about seeing another one?  I don’t know how it works with you, but over here, although you’re registered with one, you can see any doc who’s at the Practice – in fact often you don’t see your own doc at all, but just whoever’s on duty. You don’t need to re-register.  Or  - taking the risk to really open up about mental health things to your present doc may help her to see things from your point of view – which is really important.   How else can she really help you, if she doesn’t know the whole story and how certain physical things affect you differently from those patients she has who don’t have an ED history? RE: examinations – i had to have a gynae investigation a while back, and on the referral my doc wrote a note saying how anxious i was about my body/being examined – as a result, the Consultant talked it all through with me first, which helped a lot.  Doctors _can_ understand – at least some can. It’s _always_ worth speaking about (IMVHO). Strength to you, Ellen – to NOT let yourself be affected by recent events at your dr’s – she may have been having a bad day, and at a future appointment you might be able to discuss it in a bit more depth.  Or at least start to. And as for not being taken seriously as a result of not being 100% stable emotionally – that’s rubbish!!!  EVERYONE deserves to be taken seriously. Period.  And if that’s not what your dr thinks, it’s time to register with another, more sympathetic doctor.  I know they’re always pushed for time etc, and don’t necessarily have the time to spend in discussing in depth lots of things – but that doesn’t mean that bits and pieces can’t be talked about each time you see her, or that she disregards your own feelings about things.  I think doctors these days realise how much the mental can affect the physical – and it’s part of their remit to explore both, regardless of whether they’d rather concentrate purely on the physical. ((((((((((Ellen)))))))))))  I hope you get your thyroid problem resolved soon – now that’s one example of a physical problem that definitely _can_ affect the emotional, in terms of being tired leading to feelings of depression through not being able to do what one thinks one _should_ be able to do, or has previously been able to do. Hope this helps, lots of love, Fi

Response:

ellen, in my opinion, the problem in this interaction was with your doc, NOT with what you told her.  you DO deserve to be taken seriously, your feelings DO matter.  i am sorry you feel like a jerk, but you’re not – IMNSHO, she’s the one at fault.  who knows what was going on with her in that moment, that pushed her to react to you that way. i hope you can hold on to the recovery and the good things in your life. – dolphin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am feeling so self-destructive right now.  I am working on figuring out why. I have a lot of nice things going on in my life at this time.  As a matter of fact, now that I have a major work project behind me, I have some time to chill.  So why am I feeling so negative? I went to the doctor yesterday to have my blood work done for my thyroid. I had been putting this off for over a week, using work as an excuse to keep me from going.  I had wanted to tell my doctor that I am not feeling my best physically.  Since she adjusted my thyroid meds, I have had constant headaches and I am sooooooo tired.  Admitting I am not well is hard for me.  I always fear I will not be taken seriously.  When I saw my doctor at the reception window I conjured up the nerve to tell her.  Her reaction was dismissive. She said to take less medication.  She also said that my fatigue did not make sense.  I should be feeling more energetic, not lethargic.  She said she was going out of town for a week.  When she returns, we could take a look at what is going on if I am still feeling the same way.  In my opinion she was not taking me seriously.  I felt like such a jerk for even telling her about my symptoms.  I left feeling extremely angry with her. I guess headaches and fatigue are a pretty good reason for my negativity. Also, disappointment with someone I trust is difficult for me. I expect, wrongly and unrealistically I suppose, that my doctor would understand that recovering from an eating disorder is difficult when one’s metabolism is out of sync.  And that headaches and fatigue also add to my challenge.  I guess I assume too much. So, I am doing the best I can to tolerate the situation.  The headache is not present as I write, thank goodness.  Last night I had a solid night of sleep. Maybe today will be better. I also fear that my doctor thinks that I am not to be taken seriously because she believes I am not a million percent stable emotionally.  When I had my yearly physical, I refused to allow her to examine me.  I am so uncomfortable with my body these days.  I am still struggling to get my weight to where it was. I feel better, just getting this out in writing.  Thanks if you have read this far. I am still in recovery.  I am on my way to seven long months of abstinence.  I am also working on better eating.  The feast or famine thing does not work well for me. Ellen

Response:

When I saw my doctor at the reception window I conjured up the nerve to tell her.  Her reaction was dismissive.  She said to take less medication.  She also said that my fatigue did not make sense.  I should be feeling more energetic, not lethargic.  She said she was going out of town for a week.  When she returns, we could take a look at what is going on if I am still feeling the same way.  In my opinion she was not taking me seriously.  I felt like such a jerk for even telling her about my symptoms.  I left feeling extremely angry with her.

Have you tried taking less medication, as she suggested?  Even though her demeanor seemed dismissive to you, that sounds like she was addressing your question.  I think she was taking you seriously. I personally think it’s unreasonable to expect to get a doc’s attention outside of an actual appoinment.  Catching her at the receptionist’s window like that, she may have had a dozen other things on her mind.  While I certainly understand your frustration and disappointment, I think doctors get a bad rap because we expect them to always be available, always right, and to always know the answers for us instantly.  You say you were there for a blood test…the results of that test are probably what she needs before she can go any further to help you right now. I guess headaches and fatigue are a pretty good reason for my negativity. Also, disappointment with someone I trust is difficult for me.

You’re right.  Sometimes these things that can take much adjustment (like thyroid, or antidepressants) are so frustrating to work with. I expect, wrongly and unrealistically I suppose, that my doctor would understand that recovering from an eating disorder is difficult when one’s metabolism is out of sync.  And that headaches and fatigue also add to my challenge.  I guess I assume too much.

She may understand but still have to go through whatever protocol there is for thyroid treatment. When you start dealing with the hormonal realm, it’s not as straightforward as setting a broken bone. So, I am doing the best I can to tolerate the situation.  The headache is not present as I write, thank goodness.  Last night I had a solid night of sleep. Maybe today will be better.

I hope so!  : ) I also fear that my doctor thinks that I am not to be taken seriously because she believes I am not a million percent stable emotionally.  When I had my yearly physical, I refused to allow her to examine me.  I am so uncomfortable with my body these days.  I am still struggling to get my weight to where it was.

You don’t have to be a million percent emotionally stable (who is?) to deserve good treatment.  On the other hand, I think we tend to expect our pdocs to be as patient, understanding and intuitive about our emotional life as our therapists are.  And generally, they’re just not.  That doesn’t make them bad doctors — they just have a  different job to do. I am still in recovery.  I am on my way to seven long months of abstinence.  I am also working on better eating.  The feast or famine thing does not work well for me.

Yay, Ellen!!!  Balanced is always better.  Avoiding those extremes of too hungry and too full makes the road a lot smoother for me, too. Betsy

Response:

I am feeling so self-destructive right now.  I am working on figuring out why. I have a lot of nice things going on in my life at this time.  As a matter of fact, now that I have a major work project behind me, I have some time to chill.  So why am I feeling so negative?

Could it be that you have *time* to let the negative feelings come through?  More time to think about all the thins that strike you as wrong/bad/etc? I went to the doctor yesterday to have my blood work done for my thyroid.  I had been putting this off for over a week, using work as an excuse to keep me from going.  I had wanted to tell my doctor that I am not feeling my best physically.  Since she adjusted my thyroid meds, I have had constant headaches and I am sooooooo tired.  Admitting I am not well is hard for me.  I always fear I will not be taken seriously.  When I saw my doctor at the reception window I conjured up the nerve to tell her.  Her reaction was dismissive.  She said to take less medication.  She also said that my fatigue did not make sense.  I should be feeling more energetic, not lethargic.  She said she was going out of town for a week.  When she returns, we could take a look at what is going on if I am still feeling the same way.  In my opinion she was not taking me seriously.  I felt like such a jerk for even telling her about my symptoms.  I left feeling extremely angry with her.

You are not, not, NOT a jerk for telling your doc about the symptoms.  And you have every right to be angry… she’s supposed to be there to help you, not to dismiss your symptoms.  I don’t know what other health care options you have, but could you get a second opinion?  You might talk to your pharmacist… they know more than just how to count pills. <snip I also fear that my doctor thinks that I am not to be taken seriously because she believes I am not a million percent stable emotionally.  When I had my yearly physical, I refused to allow her to examine me.  I am so uncomfortable with my body these days.  I am still struggling to get my weight to where it was.

If she doesn’t take you seriously, I think you should seriously consider a doc who’s going to do so.  Or would it be possible to set up a meeting with your doc, your therapist, and you to talk about how best to treat the whole Ellen? I feel better, just getting this out in writing.  Thanks if you have read this far. I am still in recovery.  I am on my way to seven long months of abstinence.  I am also working on better eating.  The feast or famine thing does not work well for me.

Hooray!  It’s so good to hear that despite adversity, recovery can continue… Feel better, Ellen. alphasarah — To talk to me, take out the TRASH. We’ll love you…just the way you are…if you’re perfect.  -Alanis Morissette

Response:

I am feeling so self-destructive right now.  I am working on figuring out why. I have a lot of nice things going on in my life at this time.  As a matter of fact, now that I have a major work project behind me, I have some time to chill.  So why am I feeling so negative? I went to the doctor yesterday to have my blood work done for my thyroid.  I had been putting this off for over a week, using work as an excuse to keep me from going.  I had wanted to tell my doctor that I am not feeling my best physically.  Since she adjusted my thyroid meds, I have had constant headaches and I am sooooooo tired.  Admitting I am not well is hard for me.  I always fear I will not be taken seriously.  When I saw my doctor at the reception window I conjured up the nerve to tell her.  Her reaction was dismissive.  She said to take less medication.  She also said that my fatigue did not make sense.  I should be feeling more energetic, not lethargic.  She said she was going out of town for a week.  When she returns, we could take a look at what is going on if I am still feeling the same way.  In my opinion she was not taking me seriously.  I felt like such a jerk for even telling her about my symptoms.  I left feeling extremely angry with her. I guess headaches and fatigue are a pretty good reason for my negativity. Also, disappointment with someone I trust is difficult for me.   I expect, wrongly and unrealistically I suppose, that my doctor would understand that recovering from an eating disorder is difficult when one’s metabolism is out of sync.  And that headaches and fatigue also add to my challenge.  I guess I assume too much. So, I am doing the best I can to tolerate the situation.  The headache is not present as I write, thank goodness.  Last night I had a solid night of sleep. Maybe today will be better. I also fear that my doctor thinks that I am not to be taken seriously because she believes I am not a million percent stable emotionally.  When I had my yearly physical, I refused to allow her to examine me.  I am so uncomfortable with my body these days.  I am still struggling to get my weight to where it was. I feel better, just getting this out in writing.  Thanks if you have read this far. I am still in recovery.  I am on my way to seven long months of abstinence.  I am also working on better eating.  The feast or famine thing does not work well for me. Ellen

Response:

I am feeling so self-destructive right now.  I am working on figuring out why. I have a lot of nice things going on in my life at this time.  As a matter of fact, now that I have a major work project behind me, I have some time to chill.  So why am I feeling so negative?

i dont know.. i look within look without for something greater than myself a center of the universe that is not me. worrying is a lack of faith regards me

Response:

Question:

Yup, there is most certainly a link between depression and hypothyroidism, in that if you are hypo, you will most likely exhibit signs of depression. The interesting thing is, is that, since I’ve been on antidepressants, my TSH level has consistently been over 2, which is now (most recent studies) showing itself to be suspect…

Yes the word was ’suspect’  Let’s get away from Mary’s banner advertising and go direct to  the the AACE page for this same press release. http://www.aace.com/pub/spec/tam2001/presstam2001.html [small quote] The TSH is a simple yet highly sensitive blood test that enables physicians to detect even slight abnormalities in thyroid function. It determines the level of thyroid stimulating hormone which regulates thyroid hormone production, indicating whether the thyroid gland is overactive (hyperthyroid), underactive (hypothyroid) or normal (euthyroid). AACE encourages patients whose TSH is outside the normal range (.5-5.0 uU/ml) to see an endocrinologist for treatment and thyroid disease management. Even though a TSH level between 3.0 and 5.0 uU/ml is in the normal range, it should be considered suspect since it may signal a case of evolving thyroid underactivity. The new thyroid stimulating hormone test is sensitive enough to detect both hypothyroid and hyperthyroid conditions. "TSH tests play a vital role in helping physicians diagnose and manage thyroid disorders," says Hossein Gharib, M.D., F.A.C.E, a Vice-President of AACE and Professor of Medicine at the Mayo Medical School. "Constant monitoring of a patient’s TSH level is critical in early detection and treatment of thyroid disease."

[Leora continued] .they are now saying that the normal range for TSH ought to be from .05 to 2, and anything over 2 (like my 2.95 I had a few years ago) ought to be treated as hypothyroidism.  

I did not read that in the press release above. Hmmm…makes me wonder, you know, if my TSH levels were brought back down below 2, would my depression go away?  I don’t know…I doubt if I had a malfunctioning thyroid earlier in my life, while I was still feeling depression…but the funny thing is, the meds don’t seem to be helping me much lately, the Prozac isn’t doing what it once did for me….perhaps my thyroid is growing more sluggish, and the Prozac is unable to compensate for the physical effects of that.  I’ll find out on Friday, when I get my latest results.

Ask about thyroid and osteoporosis while you are there. Love, Leora

Kathryn ( trying to be helpful )

Response:

Iodine affects the thyroid and will boost it in many cases, but it’s very important to have it checked first and to monitor it as taking iodine can lead to an overactive thyroid in some circumstances, especially in cases where the person has a problem or is sensitive to iodine. There are numerous supplements around that have iodine and I believe that in weight loss supplements/vitamins as well as some energy boost and anti depressants (herbal) iodine is also one of the ingredients. If a problem with the thyroid is suspected it’s wise to be tested and if the tests indicate a problem then a course of action taken. Small doses shouldn’t be a problem in a healthy person, but in someone who has an overactive thyroid it can cause the thyroid to become more overactive. Steven

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there any natural methods out there to boost thyroid functioning – herbs, etc. – I was just thinking, I don’t want to end up like my mother, sick for years before her numbers finally were high enough to give her medicine so she could feel well again….if I have to, I will look into alternative treatments to boost my thyroid, if it’s possible, if any of the treatments work…. Thanks, Love, Leora this link provides plenty of background info. but as far as the alt methods that it mentions at the bottom of the article, i would definitely do some more research. (acupuncture and chiropractic are both mentioned—while i can certainly understand where certain foods and herbs might affect thyroid function or disfunction, i don’t see how either acupuncture or chiro would be of much help) anyway, here is the link:

http://onhealth.webmd.com/conditions/resource/conditions/fulltext/ite… .asp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – are you aware of the conjecture surrounding thyroid function and feelings of depression and/or anxiety? you might want to research it a bit if you haven’t already. http://www.allthyroid.org/docs/yf/famdep_iv.html http://www.emory.edu/WHSC/HSNEWS/releases/jun99/060199thyroid.html http://www.the-thyroid-society.org/ regarding nutrition and herbal treatments for thyroid problems: a good book is the Complete German Commission E Monographs which goes through all the herbs from the perspective of scientific research. books by Christ opher Hobbs and James Duke on herbal medicines are very reliable. contact the American Botanical Council (www.herbalgram.org) or Herb Research Foundation (www.herbs.org). HealthWorld Online (www.healthy.net) is another resource. www.herbalism.com, part of HealthWorld Online, has a complete herbal materia medica. — Self-conceit may lead to self-destruction. Aesop (~550 BC) The computer is a moron. Peter Drucker I’m as pure as the driven slush. Tallulah Bankhead

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This is the link about the changing philosophy on TSH levels… Love, Leora http://thyroid.about.com/health/thyroid/library/weekly/aa012301a.htm

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I’ve also been reading that there may be a connection between soy consumption (especially as an infant, in the form of soy formula) and hypothyroidism later in life….anyone care to comment on that?  I had to have soy formula as a baby….was allergic to the regular formula (and to practically half the baby foods my mother tried to give me!)…. Love, Leora

Response:

Hello, Try doing a search on coleus forskohlii, forskolin or guggul/gugglesterone. I think the amino acid tyrosine can be helpful also…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone else has seen the latest news about TSH levels – how anything above a 3 (as opposed to the old value of 5.5 or higher) is now considered suspect…. My mother’s thyroid finally quit on her in her 60’s – just failed entirely – but she’d been suffering symptoms of hypothyroidism since her mid 30’s, although her TSH levels were high-normal (3 to 5, going from the lower to the higher number over a  number of years.)  She was tired all the time, got infections easily, had headaches, bad periods (before menopause) weight gain, was cold all the time, had dry skin and hair – etc….all the typical symptoms of hypothyroidism. Well, according to new research, she was actually probably had hypothyroidism back when she was at a 3 level…they just waited until her thyroid crapped out on her entirely to give her the synthroid.  Now that she has that, and it’s been adjusted to bring her TSH levels to around 2 or just below, she feels great.  She lost about 40 lbs without effort, sleeps much less, has much more energy, better resistance to infections, etc…. I just keep thinking, isn’t it a shame that they ignored her symptoms of hypothyroidism, and just waited until the TSH numbers got high enough to replace the thyroid hormone? My last thyroid test a few years ago was a 2.95….just went back for another thyroid test recently as I feel I have some symptoms of hypothyroidism and thought it would be a good idea to check….still waiting on results…. Are there any natural methods out there to boost thyroid functioning – herbs, etc. – I was just thinking, I don’t want to end up like my mother, sick for years before her numbers finally were high enough to give her medicine so she could feel well again….if I have to, I will look into alternative treatments to boost my thyroid, if it’s possible, if any of the treatments work…. Thanks, Love, Leora

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh dear, all those scientific double blind studies are now being scrapped. Too bad for all those who pur their total faith in science. Jan Huh? http://www.englemed.demon.co.uk/search/00mar18.htm This isn’t the website that was posted or that I was quoting from. Jan

I know, that is why * I * posted it. The Englemed story refers to a small placebo controlled study presented at a conference of the British Endocrine Societies. The study was based on  ’clinical presentation’ with feeling better the end point. The placebo worked as well as the active treatment. The point of view of this group seems to be at odds with AACE  and is warning that inappropriate thyroid treatment for those that do not actually have low thyroid may lead to a hyperthyroid condition and have dangerous health consequences. In case you wonder at my concern I have a close family member who is hypothyroid and is monitored regularly to make sure the dosage is correct. kathryn

Response:

Yup, there is most certainly a link between depression and hypothyroidism, in that if you are hypo, you will most likely exhibit signs of depression. The interesting thing is, is that, since I’ve been on antidepressants, my TSH level has consistently been over 2, which is now (most recent studies) showing itself to be suspect….they are now saying that the normal range for TSH ought to be from .05 to 2, and anything over 2 (like my 2.95 I had a few years ago) ought to be treated as hypothyroidism.  Hmmm…makes me wonder, you know, if my TSH levels were brought back down below 2, would my depression go away?  I don’t know…I doubt if I had a malfunctioning thyroid earlier in my life, while I was still feeling depression…but the funny thing is, the meds don’t seem to be helping me much lately, the Prozac isn’t doing what it once did for me….perhaps my thyroid is growing more sluggish, and the Prozac is unable to compensate for the physical effects of that.  I’ll find out on Friday, when I get my latest results. Love, Leora – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there any natural methods out there to boost thyroid functioning – herbs, etc. – I was just thinking, I don’t want to end up like my mother, sick for years before her numbers finally were high enough to give her medicine so she could feel well again….if I have to, I will look into alternative treatments to boost my thyroid, if it’s possible, if any of the treatments work…. Thanks, Love, Leora this link provides plenty of background info. but as far as the alt methods that it mentions at the bottom of the article, i would definitely do some more research. (acupuncture and chiropractic are both mentioned—while i can certainly understand where certain foods and herbs might affect thyroid function or disfunction, i don’t see how either acupuncture or chiro would be of much help) anyway, here is the link: http://onhealth.webmd.com/conditions/resource/conditions/fulltext/ite… are you aware of the conjecture surrounding thyroid function and feelings of depression and/or anxiety? you might want to research it a bit if you haven’t already. http://www.allthyroid.org/docs/yf/famdep_iv.html http://www.emory.edu/WHSC/HSNEWS/releases/jun99/060199thyroid.html http://www.the-thyroid-society.org/ regarding nutrition and herbal treatments for thyroid problems: a good book is the Complete German Commission E Monographs which goes through all the herbs from the perspective of scientific research. books by Christ opher Hobbs and James Duke on herbal medicines are very reliable. contact the American Botanical Council (www.herbalgram.org) or Herb Research Foundation (www.herbs.org). HealthWorld Online (www.healthy.net) is another resource. www.herbalism.com, part of HealthWorld Online, has a complete herbal materia medica. — Self-conceit may lead to self-destruction. Aesop (~550 BC) The computer is a moron. Peter Drucker I’m as pure as the driven slush. Tallulah Bankhead

Response:

Thanks for all this good info!  Gives me lots to research!  :-) Love, Leora – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there any natural methods out there to boost thyroid functioning – herbs, etc. – I was just thinking, I don’t want to end up like my mother, sick for years before her numbers finally were high enough to give her medicine so she could feel well again….if I have to, I will look into alternative treatments to boost my thyroid, if it’s possible, if any of the treatments work…. Thanks, Love, Leora this link provides plenty of background info. but as far as the alt methods that it mentions at the bottom of the article, i would definitely do some more research. (acupuncture and chiropractic are both mentioned—while i can certainly understand where certain foods and herbs might affect thyroid function or disfunction, i don’t see how either acupuncture or chiro would be of much help) anyway, here is the link: http://onhealth.webmd.com/conditions/resource/conditions/fulltext/ite… are you aware of the conjecture surrounding thyroid function and feelings of depression and/or anxiety? you might want to research it a bit if you haven’t already. http://www.allthyroid.org/docs/yf/famdep_iv.html http://www.emory.edu/WHSC/HSNEWS/releases/jun99/060199thyroid.html http://www.the-thyroid-society.org/ regarding nutrition and herbal treatments for thyroid problems: a good book is the Complete German Commission E Monographs which goes through all the herbs from the perspective of scientific research. books by Christ opher Hobbs and James Duke on herbal medicines are very reliable. contact the American Botanical Council (www.herbalgram.org) or Herb Research Foundation (www.herbs.org). HealthWorld Online (www.healthy.net) is another resource. www.herbalism.com, part of HealthWorld Online, has a complete herbal materia medica. — Self-conceit may lead to self-destruction. Aesop (~550 BC) The computer is a moron. Peter Drucker I’m as pure as the driven slush. Tallulah Bankhead

Response:

Are there any natural methods out there to boost thyroid functioning – herbs, etc. – I was just thinking, I don’t want to end up like my mother, sick for years before her numbers finally were high enough to give her medicine so she could feel well again….if I have to, I will look into alternative treatments to boost my thyroid, if it’s possible, if any of the treatments work…. Thanks, Love, Leora

this link provides plenty of background info. but as far as the alt methods that it mentions at the bottom of the article, i would definitely do some more research. (acupuncture and chiropractic are both mentioned—while i can certainly understand where certain foods and herbs might affect thyroid function or disfunction, i don’t see how either acupuncture or chiro would be of much help) anyway, here is the link: http://onhealth.webmd.com/conditions/resource/conditions/fulltext/ite… are you aware of the conjecture surrounding thyroid function and feelings of depression and/or anxiety? you might want to research it a bit if you haven’t already. http://www.allthyroid.org/docs/yf/famdep_iv.html http://www.emory.edu/WHSC/HSNEWS/releases/jun99/060199thyroid.html http://www.the-thyroid-society.org/ regarding nutrition and herbal treatments for thyroid problems: a good book is the Complete German Commission E Monographs which goes through all the herbs from the perspective of scientific research. books by Christ opher Hobbs and James Duke on herbal medicines are very reliable. contact the American Botanical Council (www.herbalgram.org) or Herb Research Foundation (www.herbs.org). HealthWorld Online (www.healthy.net) is another resource. www.herbalism.com, part of HealthWorld Online, has a complete herbal materia medica. — Self-conceit may lead to self-destruction. Aesop (~550 BC) The computer is a moron. Peter Drucker I’m as pure as the driven slush. Tallulah Bankhead

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone else has seen the latest news about TSH levels – how anything above a 3 (as opposed to the old value of 5.5 or higher) is now considered suspect…. My mother’s thyroid finally quit on her in her 60’s – just failed entirely – but she’d been suffering symptoms of hypothyroidism since her mid 30’s, although her TSH levels were high-normal (3 to 5, going from the lower to the higher number over a  number of years.)  She was tired all the time, got infections easily, had headaches, bad periods (before menopause) weight gain, was cold all the time, had dry skin and hair – etc….all the typical symptoms of hypothyroidism. Well, according to new research, she was actually probably had hypothyroidism back when she was at a 3 level…they just waited until her thyroid crapped out on her entirely to give her the synthroid.  Now that she has that, and it’s been adjusted to bring her TSH levels to around 2 or just below, she feels great.  She lost about 40 lbs without effort, sleeps much less, has much more energy, better resistance to infections, etc…. I just keep thinking, isn’t it a shame that they ignored her symptoms of hypothyroidism, and just waited until the TSH numbers got high enough to replace the thyroid hormone? My last thyroid test a few years ago was a 2.95….just went back for another thyroid test recently as I feel I have some symptoms of hypothyroidism and thought it would be a good idea to check….still waiting on results…. Are there any natural methods out there to boost thyroid functioning – herbs, etc. – I was just thinking, I don’t want to end up like my mother, sick for years before her numbers finally were high enough to give her medicine so she could feel well again….if I have to, I will look into alternative treatments to boost my thyroid, if it’s possible, if any of the treatments work…. Thanks, Love, Leora

I take a product by Standard Process called Thytrophin PMG which helps my thyroid. It is only dispensed by alt, practioners. Jan

Response:

This is the link about the changing philosophy on TSH levels… Love, Leora http://thyroid.about.com/health/thyroid/library/weekly/aa012301a.htm

"Why are we following a test which has no correlation with clinical presentation? The thyroidologists by consensus have decided that this test is the most useful for following treatment when in fact it is unrelated to how the patient feels. The consequences of this have been horrendous. Six years after their consensus decision Chronic fatigue and Fibromyalgia appeared. These are both hypothyroid conditions. But because their TSH was normal they have not been treated. The TSH needs to be scrapped and medical students taught again how to clinically recognize low thyroid conditions." Oh dear, all those scientific double blind studies are now being scrapped. Too bad for all those who pur their total faith in science. Jan

Response:

  My retired gyn friend told me that one thing that frustrates him about the new crop of doctors is that he feels they don’t listen enough to the patient – they rely too heavily on lab results instead – and often end up misdiagnosing because they don’t listen to the patient or trust the patient to tell the truth….   A common complaint among teachung docs.  Young docs tend to orders way too many tests out of a fear of missing something.   erf

Response:

Oh dear, all those scientific double blind studies are now being scrapped. Too bad for all those who pur their total faith in science. Jan

Huh? http://www.englemed.demon.co.uk/search/00mar18.htm scroll down page past headlines to story text Thyroid hormone alert Patients are being put at risk by doctors who give them thyroid hormones they do not need, experts have warned.

<snip But Dr Anne Pollock, from Stobhill Hospital, Glasgow, Scotland, said research involving 25 patients had found the treatment made no difference to their well-being. The research was set up after a thyroid craze swept the city. Volunteers were either given hormone or a dummy drug but Dr Pollock said neither group of patients showed any signs of improvement in their health. She said: "We had a group of patients who were referred to us by their GPs because they, the patients, considered themselves to be clinically hypothyroid. People would come and say that the tests that said there was not a problem were wrong. "But we found no evidence there was any difference between thyroid and placebo treatment."

Kathryn

Response:

Oh dear, all those scientific double blind studies are now being scrapped. Too bad for all those who pur their total faith in science. Jan Huh? http://www.englemed.demon.co.uk/search/00mar18.htm

This isn’t the website that was posted or that I was quoting from. Jan

Response:

I was wondering if anyone else has seen the latest news about TSH levels – how anything above a 3 (as opposed to the old value of 5.5 or higher) is now considered suspect…. My mother’s thyroid finally quit on her in her 60’s – just failed entirely – but she’d been suffering symptoms of hypothyroidism since her mid 30’s, although her TSH levels were high-normal (3 to 5, going from the lower to the higher number over a  number of years.)  She was tired all the time, got infections easily, had headaches, bad periods (before menopause) weight gain, was cold all the time, had dry skin and hair – etc….all the typical symptoms of hypothyroidism. Well, according to new research, she was actually probably had hypothyroidism back when she was at a 3 level…they just waited until her thyroid crapped out on her entirely to give her the synthroid.  Now that she has that, and it’s been adjusted to bring her TSH levels to around 2 or just below, she feels great.  She lost about 40 lbs without effort, sleeps much less, has much more energy, better resistance to infections, etc…. I just keep thinking, isn’t it a shame that they ignored her symptoms of hypothyroidism, and just waited until the TSH numbers got high enough to replace the thyroid hormone? My last thyroid test a few years ago was a 2.95….just went back for another thyroid test recently as I feel I have some symptoms of hypothyroidism and thought it would be a good idea to check….still waiting on results…. Are there any natural methods out there to boost thyroid functioning – herbs, etc. – I was just thinking, I don’t want to end up like my mother, sick for years before her numbers finally were high enough to give her medicine so she could feel well again….if I have to, I will look into alternative treatments to boost my thyroid, if it’s possible, if any of the treatments work…. Thanks, Love, Leora

Response:

Question:

I was on it for quite a while (year or so), and I guess it helped. Not really sure. only know when I went from 5mcg to 25mcg rapidly, in one fell swoop, got really manicky. Then it cooled…when I went off it (due to high thyroid tests), didn’t notice any change. Pdoc gave it to me, used to prescribe it to "boost" depression, and felt it worked for a number of people. moz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have any experience with this drug??  It’s a thyroid hormone used to treat hypothyroidism.  Garth’s pdoc just prescribed 50mcg and it’s supposed to be a ‘boost’ to his Nortriptyline.  He’s also on Depakote.  I can’t seem to find anything on this med as it would pertain to BP and with his depression… it’s supposed to boost the metabolism.  Anybody know about this?? TIA Barbie Doll

Response:

Hi pm, Thanks for responding.  Garth really leans towards depressed, so hopefully it’ll do something positive.  Did you get regular thyroid tests?… how often? Barbie Doll

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was on it for quite a while (year or so), and I guess it helped. Not really sure. only know when I went from 5mcg to 25mcg rapidly, in one fell swoop, got really manicky. Then it cooled…when I went off it (due to high thyroid tests), didn’t notice any change. Pdoc gave it to me, used to prescribe it to "boost" depression, and felt it worked for a number of people. moz Does anyone have any experience with this drug??  It’s a thyroid hormone used to treat hypothyroidism.  Garth’s pdoc just prescribed 50mcg and it’s supposed to be a ‘boost’ to his Nortriptyline.  He’s also on Depakote. I can’t seem to find anything on this med as it would pertain to BP and with his depression… it’s supposed to boost the metabolism.  Anybody know about this?? TIA Barbie Doll

Response:

Cytomel helps more females than males, according to the studies done by Dr. Wybrow at the University of California, Los Angeles.  But use of Cytomel beyond three weeks can cause a person to be dependent upon it for the rest of their lives. I used it for two weeks and got no effect from it.  I also used Synthroid and had no effect. Does anyone have any experience with this drug??  It’s a thyroid hormone used to treat hypothyroidism.  Garth’s pdoc just prescribed 50mcg and it’s supposed to be a ‘boost’ to his Nortriptyline.  He’s also on Depakote.  I can’t seem to find anything on this med as it would pertain to BP and with his depression… it’s supposed to boost the metabolism.  Anybody know about this?? TIA Barbie Doll

Response:

Does anyone have any experience with this drug??  It’s a thyroid hormone used to treat hypothyroidism.  Garth’s pdoc just prescribed 50mcg and it’s supposed to be a ‘boost’ to his Nortriptyline.  He’s also on Depakote.  I can’t seem to find anything on this med as it would pertain to BP and with his depression… it’s supposed to boost the metabolism.  Anybody know about this?? TIA Barbie Doll

Response:

A little safe advice, Barbie Doll.  First, has he run the TSH series of tests on Garth?  Pdocs are not endocrinologists.  I would hie thee to a regular md and have it tested.  Thyroid is nothing for pdocs to be messing with. L – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have any experience with this drug??  It’s a thyroid hormone used to treat hypothyroidism.  Garth’s pdoc just prescribed 50mcg and it’s supposed to be a ‘boost’ to his Nortriptyline.  He’s also on Depakote.  I can’t seem to find anything on this med as it would pertain to BP and with his depression… it’s supposed to boost the metabolism.  Anybody know about this?? TIA Barbie Doll

Response:

oh, crap… that’s supposed to be "Cytomel / Liothyronine"… Gawd, who comes up with these names??

Response:

The TSH test is not useful for depression in regards to Cytomel augmentation.  Cytomel (T3 hormone) is commonly used to potentiate antidepressants, regardless of what a blood test shows.  It’s been used for years to boost the response for partial and non-responders to antidepressants.  The mechanism of how it works is not known. Thomas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A little safe advice, Barbie Doll.  First, has he run the TSH series of tests on Garth?  Pdocs are not endocrinologists.  I would hie thee to a regular md and have it tested.  Thyroid is nothing for pdocs to be messing with. L Does anyone have any experience with this drug??  It’s a thyroid hormone used to treat hypothyroidism.  Garth’s pdoc just prescribed 50mcg and it’s supposed to be a ‘boost’ to his Nortriptyline.  He’s also on Depakote.  I can’t seem to find anything on this med as it would pertain to BP and with his depression… it’s supposed to boost the metabolism.  Anybody know about this?? TIA Barbie Doll

Response:

It is a thyroid hormone.  Thyroid treatment of ANY kind by a pdoc is just plain stupid.  Let a podiatrist deliver your baby.  TSH tests reveal whether their is anything wrong with your thyroid.  Its pretty cut and dried. L – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The TSH test is not useful for depression in regards to Cytomel augmentation.  Cytomel (T3 hormone) is commonly used to potentiate antidepressants, regardless of what a blood test shows.  It’s been used for years to boost the response for partial and non-responders to antidepressants.  The mechanism of how it works is not known. Thomas A little safe advice, Barbie Doll.  First, has he run the TSH series of tests on Garth?  Pdocs are not endocrinologists.  I would hie thee to a regular md and have it tested.  Thyroid is nothing for pdocs to be messing with. L

Response:

Incorrect.  Endocrinologists don’t have a clue about thyroid supplementation of antidepressants or their use in mixed and/or rapid cycling bipolar conditions. My psychiatirst is a psychoneuroendocrinologist, and consults with an endocrinologist, but my personal belief is that thyroids have no place in psychiatry unless you’re treatment-refractory and have exhausted nearly every other option.  If you have lithium-induced hypothyroidism, then of course you need supplementation, but you’re crazy, Linda, and clearly lithium isn’t doing the trick.  The journals used ot have an ad for Depakote that showed a girl with her brain on fire.  That girl was you.  Get on an AED and put out the fire. V P.S.  Don’t call Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is a thyroid hormone.  Thyroid treatment of ANY kind by a pdoc is just plain stupid.  Let a podiatrist deliver your baby.  TSH tests reveal whether their is anything wrong with your thyroid.  Its pretty cut and dried. L The TSH test is not useful for depression in regards to Cytomel augmentation.  Cytomel (T3 hormone) is commonly used to potentiate antidepressants, regardless of what a blood test shows.  It’s been used for years to boost the response for partial and non-responders to antidepressants.  The mechanism of how it works is not known. Thomas A little safe advice, Barbie Doll.  First, has he run the TSH series of tests on Garth?  Pdocs are not endocrinologists.  I would hie thee to a regular md and have it tested.  Thyroid is nothing for pdocs to be messing with. L

"Fex urbis, lex orbis" [Dregs of the city, law of the world] — St. Jerome

Response:

Question:

Assuming members of this group are knowledgeable about diabetes, I’m hoping someone may be able to help me out with diet information. My doctor’s office called today to say that my glucose level was high, and I should gear my diet towards what a diabetic would eat.  I’ve searched the internet trying to find some daily menus.  The food pyramid at diabetes.org will be helpful but specific SIMPLE menus would be better.  I live alone, don’t like to cook, and tend to rely on too many TV dinners. For the next month I’m already on a restricted diet, no salt, dairy products, or anything containing iodine. Looking forward to hearing from you! Patty Tappan

Response:

Assuming members of this group are knowledgeable about diabetes, I’m hoping someone may be able to help me out with diet information.

Hi Patty, I am a real newbie here, but there are many veterans who I am sure will chime in! My doctor’s office called today to say that my glucose level was high, and I should gear my diet towards what a diabetic would eat.  I’ve searched the internet trying to find some daily menus.  The food pyramid at diabetes.org will be helpful but specific SIMPLE menus would be better.  I live alone, don’t like to cook, and tend to rely on too many TV dinners.

Well, I don’t know much, BUT my first though is that if a MD told you that your BG was high and to change your diet, I would FIRST find a NEW DOCTOR. There is a lot more to this than just diet! What were the readings? BG and A1c? Fasting? These are just a couple things you MUST know. Like I said before, some veterans here will chime in with more. For the next month I’m already on a restricted diet, no salt, dairy products, or anything containing iodine.

If you add THAT to a low Carb, Zero Sugar diabetic diet, you will eat NOTHING all month, and, since it seems you have other Medical problems (or else why is your diet restricted?), I again say, Find a COMPATENT MD. The one you have is not, IMHO. Looking forward to hearing from you! Patty Tappan

Good Luck! Warren New Type II as of Dec, 2000 — AIM: CCWebservant Online Options Web Design http://www.onlineoptions.net

Response:

Patty, Sounds like you are on a low iodine diet (LID) — is this for thyroid treatment? I recently went through that; it did involve some cooking. But it was low iodine, not low salt — are you sure about that part? there is non-iodized salt available in the store.There is also no-salt/no-sugar added peanut butter available. And making bread in a machine is very simple (use unbleached flour & non-iodized salt). So is making a big pot of chicken broth, which can be used in a number of ways. Take a look at  http://www.thyca.org for their low iodine cookbook. It is possible to cook making multiple nuke-able meals on a LID. Menu samples — considering both carbo-aware (for dm) and LID aspects — Breakfast : grits w/ olive oil instead of butter, a small ground beef or pork pattie (w/ non-iodized salt and pan juice sauce); a small dish of stewed prunes & apricot (w/ cinnamon & sugar twin). I had a small bit of calcium fortified oj about 1/2 earlier. snacks & lunch: varied among a piece of  bread w/ pb, an apple or banana, a LID brownie, small bit of oj, that sort of stuff — because of the dm I had to spread it out. Dinner: salad w/ olive oil & vinegar dressing; chicken breast, nuked frozen veg; or soup made w/ some of the chicken + that broth; maybe a piece of bread. Tried to remember to take calcium pills (not the kind that comes from oyster shells). bj

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Assuming members of this group are knowledgeable about diabetes, I’m hoping someone may be able to help me out with diet information. My doctor’s office called today to say that my glucose level was high, and I should gear my diet towards what a diabetic would eat.  I’ve searched the internet trying to find some daily menus.  The food pyramid at diabetes.org will be helpful but specific SIMPLE menus would be better.  I live alone, don’t like to cook, and tend to rely on too many TV dinners. For the next month I’m already on a restricted diet, no salt, dairy products, or anything containing iodine. Looking forward to hearing from you! Patty Tappan

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Assuming members of this group are knowledgeable about diabetes, I’m hoping someone may be able to help me out with diet information. My doctor’s office called today to say that my glucose level was high, and I should gear my diet towards what a diabetic would eat.  I’ve searched the internet trying to find some daily menus.  The food pyramid at diabetes.org will be helpful but specific SIMPLE menus would be better.  I live alone, don’t like to cook, and tend to rely on too many TV dinners. For the next month I’m already on a restricted diet, no salt, dairy products, or anything containing iodine. Looking forward to hearing from you! Patty Tappan

interesting.  can you get tested by a different doctor?  you wouldn’t want to be ignoring a type 2 diagnosis. Nothing wrong with the prepackaged foods.  They tell you exactly how many carbs you’re getting in each meal or per serving in multi-serving containers. All these doctors that tell people to gear their diets towards a diabetic diet have obviously not kept themselves current with today’s diabetes care. It’s a good idea to see a dietician, have a diet based on a certain number of calories per day broken down to carbs per meal including between meal snacks. Have you seen the book "The carbohydrate addicts diet"? — Derek type 1, Insulin Pump http://www.diabeticnet.com

Response:

My doctor’s office called today to say that my glucose level was high, and I should gear my diet towards what a diabetic would eat.

Yeah sure… Like you’re not "Really" diabetic right? You should just eat like one  = )  Reduce your carbohydrate intake and get a "Real" doctor real soon. Ok? Joe

Response:

PATTY–My wife has been using 2 books for many years, and the recipes are quite tasty. the books are: 1.The American Diatetic Assoc. FAMILY COOKBOOK, Put out by The American Diabetes Assoc. (ADA) 2.Diabetes Recipes for Health, also put out be tne ADA. I think the recipes in the first book are the best. Good Luck—-Herb F.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Assuming members of this group are knowledgeable about diabetes, I’m hoping someone may be able to help me out with diet information. My doctor’s office called today to say that my glucose level was high, and I should gear my diet towards what a diabetic would eat.  I’ve searched the internet trying to find some daily menus.  The food pyramid at diabetes.org will be helpful but specific SIMPLE menus would be better.  I live alone, don’t like to cook, and tend to rely on too many TV dinners. For the next month I’m already on a restricted diet, no salt, dairy products, or anything containing iodine. Looking forward to hearing from you! Patty Tappan

Response:

bj… Yes have non-iodized sale for LID. This diet is in prep for I131 scan in January. Thyroid was removed last May followed by radioactive iodine treatment, but recent biopsy showed some cancer so scan was scheduled. Your diet suggestions will be very helpful, and (groan) I will try my hand at cooking from the thyca.org site.  Good info there; the diet my doc gave me didn’t say no to milk substitutes, and I had been using a soy based sub. I’ve been having blood work every month for almost a year, and this was the first high glucose report…hopefully, the last. Thanks again…Patty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Patty, Sounds like you are on a low iodine diet (LID) — is this for thyroid treatment? I recently went through that; it did involve some cooking. But it was low iodine, not low salt — are you sure about that part? there is non-iodized salt available in the store.There is also no-salt/no-sugar added peanut butter available. And making bread in a machine is very simple (use unbleached flour & non-iodized salt). So is making a big pot of chicken broth, which can be used in a number of ways. Take a look at  http://www.thyca.org for their low iodine cookbook. It is possible to cook making multiple nuke-able meals on a LID. Menu samples — considering both carbo-aware (for dm) and LID aspects — Breakfast : grits w/ olive oil instead of butter, a small ground beef or pork pattie (w/ non-iodized salt and pan juice sauce); a small dish of stewed prunes & apricot (w/ cinnamon & sugar twin). I had a small bit of calcium fortified oj about 1/2 earlier. snacks & lunch: varied among a piece of  bread w/ pb, an apple or banana, a LID brownie, small bit of oj, that sort of stuff — because of the dm I had to spread it out. Dinner: salad w/ olive oil & vinegar dressing; chicken breast, nuked frozen veg; or soup made w/ some of the chicken + that broth; maybe a piece of bread. Tried to remember to take calcium pills (not the kind that comes from oyster shells). bj Assuming members of this group are knowledgeable about diabetes, I’m hoping someone may be able to help me out with diet information. My doctor’s office called today to say that my glucose level was high, and I should gear my diet towards what a diabetic would eat.  I’ve searched the internet trying to find some daily menus.  The food pyramid at diabetes.org will be helpful but specific SIMPLE menus would be better.  I live alone, don’t like to cook, and tend to rely on too many TV dinners. For the next month I’m already on a restricted diet, no salt, dairy products, or anything containing iodine. Looking forward to hearing from you! Patty Tappan

Response:

My doctor’s office called today to say that my glucose level was high, and I should gear my diet towards what a diabetic would eat.  I’ve searched the internet trying to find some daily menus.  The food pyramid at diabetes.org will be helpful but specific SIMPLE menus would be better.  I live alone, don’t like to cook, and tend to rely on too many TV dinners.

        There are two major philosophies on what a diabetic should eat. The generally recommended diabetic diet is basically the Weight Watchers diet.  The diabetics call it an Exchange diet.  If you’re looking for recipes and menu plans, go to a book store.  There you will find many diabetic cook books and Weight Watcher meal plans.         The other philosophy is to eat a low carbohydrate diet.  In the old days, diabetics were told just to avoid sugar.  That’s obsolete technology these days.  Diabetics are told to control the carbohydrate consumption.  Essentially, proteins and fats don’t cause a blood sugar problem.  Carbohydrates, on the other hand, do.  That pretty much covers all your food groups.  If you minimize your carbohydrate consumption, your blood glucose will fall.  Some carbohydrates are commonly more troublesome than others.  Breads of all kinds, wheat, grains, rice, potatoes, pasta.  In addition to that you should avoid candy bars and such.  Green beans and cantaloup are good.         Beyond that, there seems to be something missing in your doctor’s advice.  Are you diabetic or not?  These days being diabetic is a bit like being pregnant.  Either you are or you aren’t.  There is no "pre-diabetic" or " a touch of sugar" anymore.  If you aren’t diabetic then you really shouldn’t have to eat like a diabetic.  Maybe your doctor is afraid to tell you you’re diabetic.     How high did he say your blood glucose was?  Maybe he didn’t tell you.  You need to know.  You should get a home blood testing meter. They are cheap and easy to use.  Go to any drug store.  Look at the glucometers.  Don’t buy one, but look them over.   I especially like the FastTake made by LifeScan or the Glucometer Elite made by Bayer.  Get the phone number for their customer service off the box.  Call them. Tell them you’ve just been diagnosed as diabetic and don’t know a thing yet except you need a meter.  Tell them you’re kind of broke but a friend ( that would be me) said you might get one free from them.  They will be eager to do this.  The meter is a loss leader.  They know you will have to buy test strips for the meter for the rest of your life and they will make plenty of money that way.  And they want you to buy their test strips, not some other company’s test strips.   Ten or twenty-five test strips will come free with the meter.     Or if you don’t want to do that, then look for coupons at the drugstore.  These meters are sold with nearly 100% rebates sometimes. Other times you get a free meter when you purchase 100 test strips.  100 test strips should cost around $65+.     Or go to Wal-Mart.  They sell their own house brand meter for something under $20. Their strips are pretty cheap too.     or if you don’t want to do that, then look in your newspaper for diabetic health screenings in your neighborhood.  These are often free or at little cost.     At the very least you should contact your doctor’s office to find out what readings your doctor got to give you his advice.  How high is high.  Some Doctors wait until their patients need hospitalization before they diagnose them.     Current standards (they change frequently) diagnose you as diabetic if you test at or above 126 first thing in the morning before eating. This is called a fasting test.  Or you will be diagnosed if your blood glucose (BG) is above 200 at any time.  Home glucometers are not as accurate as a full blown medical laboratory, but they’ll do.  They are generally accurate to within 15-20%.     A non diabetic should have the following BG levels:         Fasting                below 110         Before meals           Below 120         1 hour after eating    below 140         2 hour after eating    below 120     Different doctors give different standards but these are a good starting point.  These numbers are for non-diabetics.  A diabetic should strive for these numbers, but will often have somewhat higher numbers.     Presumably, your numbers are not so high as to require medication yet.  You should be able to control your BGs with modest diet changes. There’s no reason for you to go hungry.  Exercise also improves BGs.  So walking is good and so is any kind of exercise you might enjoy.  Getting more exercise will mean you will need to make fewer diet changes.     If you find your BGs are higher than the numbers I’ve given you, then you should question your doctor’s ability to manage your diabetes. There are many good doctors out there who have not kept up to date with diabetes.  If you have one, then you should change to one who knows what he’s doing.  Diabetes is quite serious, and though it may take a long time, the side effects of badly managed diabetes include blindness, amputation of your feet, kidney disease, and heart attacks.  You will pay for your doctor’s neglect.         E

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Patty the diet you are on now is not for diabetes, it seems like for high blood pressure.  But to be on a diabetic diet is to watch your intake of carbs. I dont know how much your body can take, some can take ten a meal and some 60  You should get a monitor and test your blood before meals and then two hours after finishing a meal to see how your bgs are affected by what you eat. Eating protein, fat and veggies (except starches in minimal amounts) wont get you into trouble.  I find I can only eat blueberris and strawberries without probles or grapefrut (a half) and a half an orange, not all in one day.  If you want bread make sure it is a high fiber bread because you deduct the fiber from the carbs, i.e., whole wheat with 13 carbs and 4 fibers will leave you with 9 carbs.  It is not so much sugar that is counted but the total carbs of an item. I ordered a book from Amazon.com, called The Doctors Pocket Calorie Fat and Carb counter by Alan Borushek which has 11,000 items, Highly recommended. Loretta If life is such a bowl of Cherries, why am I aways in the pits:  Erma Bombeck

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Question:

I had my Indigo treated with the radioactive iodine about 4 1/2 years ago. He is 18 1/3 now.  He is still doing alright but old age has set in.  The cost was well worth it and he was only away 4 nights. — Larry and Two Black Cats, Two Grey, One White & one White&Grey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Everyone – I’m just looking for some good thoughts for Trouble. We noticed that he has been losing weight, and this past week my husband said he noticed it too. It was a gradual thing, and we both apparently initially assumed it was due to his increased activity because he plays a lot with the new kittens. However, he sometimes seems stiff in the hind region in the mornings, and his muscle mass there is clearly less – not what I’d expect if this was just an activity related weight loss. Also, he’s 9 and a half, so I called the vet and took him in this morning. Yes, the weight loss is real. (1 lb since July!!! I can’t believe I didn’t notice earlier, but his winter coat is so fluffy…)  The vet thinks I’m right – drew blood and said he can palpate the thyroid and one side is noticeably larger. We find out results from the blood work tomorrow, providing everything is routine. Assuming he is Hyper-T, if he’s OK after initial treatment with tapazole, I think we’ll go for radiation if possible. Anyone with experience with this? How did your cat do? I figure Trouble has a lot of years left (I hope) so I’d like to give him the best option. Surgery seems a little risky, but I would opt for that if I can’t find a good rad place. I suspect my vet will have a lot of info for me. Thanks for listening – yes, I’m nervous on Trouble’s behalf. But at least this can be treatable. Laura Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Laura, If Trouble is, in fact, hyperthyroid, monitor kidney function *very* closely while he’s on Tapazole.  If there’s *any* deterioration in kidney function while he’s on antithyroid med, *do not* go ahead with any permanent thyroid treatment. Over the past few years, many small animal vets have noticed what appears to be a relatively high incidence of overt renal failure following treatment of hyperthyroidism.  As the number of cats treated for hyperthyroidism increases,  so has the incidence of renal failure following treatment. Hyperthyroidism or treatment of hyperthyroidism doesn’t cause renal failure, but treatment may irreversibly unmask underlying renal disease. Hyperthyroidism increases cardiac output and renal blood flow; thyrotoxicosis, therefore, could conceivably elevate glomerular filtration rate (GFR)  causing renal function to appear normal and masking underlying renal disease.  Following treatment of feline hyperthyroidism and return to euthyroidism, cardiac output and, hence, GFR could drop, causing clinical development of overt renal failure in cats with underlying disease. I would *thoroughly* investigate kidney function before thyroid treatment. BUN/creatinine measurements are crude and insensitive tests for renal function; ~75% of kidney function must be lost before elevations in either analyte are noticed.  Despite the fact Trouble’s BUN/Creatinine may be normal, he may have underlying renal disease which may be irreversibly unmasked by I-131 Tx.  Measurement of glomerular filtration rate is a much more accurate test of renal function than either serum BUN, creatinine or both – *especially* if Trouble has lean muscle loss.  Because creatinine is mostly formed in muscle, a loss of muscle mass will result in elevated serum creatinine. I think you’ll find the below study of particular interest: Vet Radiol Ultrasound 1997 May-Jun;38(3):231-8 Changes in renal function in cats following treatment of hyperthyroidism using 131I. Adams WH, Daniel GB, Legendre AM, Gompf RE, Grove CA Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville If you need any more information, please don’t hesitate to let me know. http://maxshouse.com/Endocrine_System_&_Disorders.htm#Hyperthyroidism As an aside, speak to your vet about potassium supplementation – may reduce his stiffness. Good luck. Phil.

Phil, Thanks so much for the info. I read a lot of additional information yesterday (that’s how I deal with nervousness – look for info and digest it)including the info at your always informative site. I will be sure to look at the paper you recommended too. I also am concerned about the lean muscle loss and the possibility of a kidney problem that’s masked by his thryoid condition (if that’s what it is). My vet is a terrific guy, and I will definitely bring up the glomerular filtration rate monitoring idea as well as the potassium. He has good instincts (I think of him as the Dr. Doolittle of Georgetown because I’m convinced he talks to the animals)and he’s always up to date. To make things better, we have the ACVIM diplomates at the VRA up in Gaithersburg, and I imagine they can do just about anything there. They are listed on the CRF page for kidney specialists, and they have a number of really sharp people there. So, I know we can find the help for whatever is needed. But yes, we will be very careful before we do anything irreversible. You mentioned in another post that some vets are using another drug (not Tapazole) to treat Hyper-T cats and that it is better tolerated with fewer side-effects. It wasn’t a beta-bocker – it was another drug specifically to block thyroid hormone effects, I believe. If you remember what it is, can you let me know? Thanks so much – I will post an update when I know what’s going on. Laura Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Laura, If Trouble is, in fact, hyperthyroid, monitor kidney function *very* closely while he’s on Tapazole.  If there’s *any* deterioration in kidney function while he’s on antithyroid med, *do not* go ahead with any permanent thyroid treatment. Over the past few years, many small animal vets have noticed what appears to be a relatively high incidence of overt renal failure following treatment of hyperthyroidism.  As the number of cats treated for hyperthyroidism increases,  so has the incidence of renal failure following treatment. Hyperthyroidism or treatment of hyperthyroidism doesn’t cause renal failure, but treatment may irreversibly unmask underlying renal disease. Hyperthyroidism increases cardiac output and renal blood flow; thyrotoxicosis, therefore, could conceivably elevate glomerular filtration rate (GFR)  causing renal function to appear normal and masking underlying renal disease.  Following treatment of feline hyperthyroidism and return to euthyroidism, cardiac output and, hence, GFR could drop, causing clinical development of overt renal failure in cats with underlying disease. I would *thoroughly* investigate kidney function before thyroid treatment. BUN/creatinine measurements are crude and insensitive tests for renal function; ~75% of kidney function must be lost before elevations in either analyte are noticed.  Despite the fact Trouble’s BUN/Creatinine may be normal, he may have underlying renal disease which may be irreversibly unmasked by I-131 Tx.  Measurement of glomerular filtration rate is a much more accurate test of renal function than either serum BUN, creatinine or both – *especially* if Trouble has lean muscle loss.  Because creatinine is mostly formed in muscle, a loss of muscle mass will result in elevated serum creatinine. I think you’ll find the below study of particular interest: Vet Radiol Ultrasound 1997 May-Jun;38(3):231-8 Changes in renal function in cats following treatment of hyperthyroidism using 131I. Adams WH, Daniel GB, Legendre AM, Gompf RE, Grove CA Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville If you need any more information, please don’t hesitate to let me know. http://maxshouse.com/Endocrine_System_&_Disorders.htm#Hyperthyroidism As an aside, speak to your vet about potassium supplementation – may reduce his stiffness. Good luck. Phil. Phil, Thanks so much for the info. I read a lot of additional information yesterday (that’s how I deal with nervousness – look for info and digest it)including the info at your always informative site.

I’m happy you found the information on my site helpful.  Some not-so-sharp dolts criticized the information as being "too technical"…. I will be sure to look at the paper you recommended too. I also am concerned about the lean muscle loss and the possibility of a kidney problem that’s masked by his thryoid condition (if that’s what it is).

Was his T4 levels checked?  If so, what was the serum T4 concentration? My vet is a terrific guy, and I will definitely bring up the glomerular filtration rate monitoring idea as well as the potassium. He has good instincts (I think of him as the Dr. Doolittle of Georgetown because I’m convinced he talks to the animals)and he’s always up to date.

A good, current vet is the most crutial factor.  I’m *very* happy you have one!  I think mine was a cat in a past life! He’s also an ACVIM Diplomate and former veterinary professor.  Every trip to the vet is like going to "class"!  He even gives me "homework"! To make things better, we have the ACVIM diplomates at the VRA up in Gaithersburg, and I imagine they can do just about anything there.

There’s a renal funtion test that’s even more accurate; allows the assessment of each kidney indivudually, but I don’t think you need to go that far.  GRF or Renal Plasma Flow (RPF) is certainly good enough. Creatinine clearance is a reasonably good indicator of glomerular filtration rate (GFR) in the cat because creatinine is excreted exclusively by glomerular filtration. Sodium sulfanilate also is excreted by glomerular filtration.  These tests are a "tad" more expensive than BUN/creatinine, but well worth it. They are listed on the CRF page for kidney specialists, and they have a number of really sharp people there.

I heard the specialty of Internal Medicine will be broken down into indivudual specialties including endocrinology. They already have cardiology, oncology, neurology.  ’Gotta meet some pretty tough criteria to be certified as an ACVIM Diplomate, more than than ABVP. So, I know we can find the help for whatever is needed. But yes, we will be very careful before we do anything irreversible.

As I mentioned, if kidney function begins to deteriorate while on methimazole, you may not need to test GFR.  If kidney function remains stable while on medication, he should be alright – but I’d still go for test. You mentioned in another post that some vets are using another drug (not Tapazole) to treat Hyper-T cats and that it is better tolerated with fewer side-effects. It wasn’t a beta-bocker – it was another drug specifically to block thyroid hormone effects, I believe. If you remember what it is, can you let me know?

Ipodate.  Its used in cats who don’t tolerate methimazole well.  However, cats with severe hyperthyroidism are less likely to respond to ipodate than are cats with mild or moderate disease.  You’ll need to get it from a compounding pharmacist.  Don’t use Propylthiouracil, the side effects are much more severe than with methimazole. Here’s a study: J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jul 1;211(1):63-7 Ipodate treatment of hyperthyroidism in cats. Murray LA, Peterson ME (The "Peterson ME" is Mark Peterson of Cornell and now head of the endocrinology dept at Animal Medical Center in NYC) Thanks so much – I will post an update when I know what’s going on. Laura

Please do. Good luck. Phil. — "Cat people are different, to the extent that they                  generally are not conformists.  How could the be, with a cat running their lives?"                                                          –Louis Camuti     Feline Healthcare: http://maxshouse.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Everyone – I’m just looking for some good thoughts for Trouble. We noticed that he has been losing weight, and this past week my husband said he noticed it too. It was a gradual thing, and we both apparently initially assumed it was due to his increased activity because he plays a lot with the new kittens. However, he sometimes seems stiff in the hind region in the mornings, and his muscle mass there is clearly less – not what I’d expect if this was just an activity related weight loss. Also, he’s 9 and a half, so I called the vet and took him in this morning. Yes, the weight loss is real. (1 lb since July!!! I can’t believe I didn’t notice earlier, but his winter coat is so fluffy…)  The vet thinks I’m right – drew blood and said he can palpate the thyroid and one side is noticeably larger. We find out results from the blood work tomorrow, providing everything is routine. Assuming he is Hyper-T, if he’s OK after initial treatment with tapazole, I think we’ll go for radiation if possible. Anyone with experience with this? How did your cat do? I figure Trouble has a lot of years left (I hope) so I’d like to give him the best option. Surgery seems a little risky, but I would opt for that if I can’t find a good rad place. I suspect my vet will have a lot of info for me. Thanks for listening – yes, I’m nervous on Trouble’s behalf. But at least this can be treatable. Laura

Laura, If Trouble is, in fact, hyperthyroid, monitor kidney function *very* closely while he’s on Tapazole.  If there’s *any* deterioration in kidney function while he’s on antithyroid med, *do not* go ahead with any permanent thyroid treatment. Over the past few years, many small animal vets have noticed what appears to be a relatively high incidence of overt renal failure following treatment of hyperthyroidism.  As the number of cats treated for hyperthyroidism increases,  so has the incidence of renal failure following treatment. Hyperthyroidism or treatment of hyperthyroidism doesn’t cause renal failure, but treatment may irreversibly unmask underlying renal disease. Hyperthyroidism increases cardiac output and renal blood flow; thyrotoxicosis, therefore, could conceivably elevate glomerular filtration rate (GFR)  causing renal function to appear normal and masking underlying renal disease.  Following treatment of feline hyperthyroidism and return to euthyroidism, cardiac output and, hence, GFR could drop, causing clinical development of overt renal failure in cats with underlying disease. I would *thoroughly* investigate kidney function before thyroid treatment. BUN/creatinine measurements are crude and insensitive tests for renal function; ~75% of kidney function must be lost before elevations in either analyte are noticed.  Despite the fact Trouble’s BUN/Creatinine may be normal, he may have underlying renal disease which may be irreversibly unmasked by I-131 Tx.  Measurement of glomerular filtration rate is a much more accurate test of renal function than either serum BUN, creatinine or both – *especially* if Trouble has lean muscle loss.  Because creatinine is mostly formed in muscle, a loss of muscle mass will result in elevated serum creatinine. I think you’ll find the below study of particular interest: Vet Radiol Ultrasound 1997 May-Jun;38(3):231-8 Changes in renal function in cats following treatment of hyperthyroidism using 131I. Adams WH, Daniel GB, Legendre AM, Gompf RE, Grove CA Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville If you need any more information, please don’t hesitate to let me know. http://maxshouse.com/Endocrine_System_&_Disorders.htm#Hyperthyroidism As an aside, speak to your vet about potassium supplementation – may reduce his stiffness. Good luck. Phil. — "With the qualities of cleanliness, discretion, affection, patience,         dignity, and courage that cats have, how many of us,    I ask you, would be capable of being cats?’ –Fernand Mery         Feline Healthcare & More:  http://maxshouse.com

Response:

Hi, Everyone – I’m just looking for some good thoughts for Trouble. We noticed that he has been losing weight, and this past week my husband said he noticed it too. It was a gradual thing, and we both apparently initially assumed it was due to his increased activity because he plays a lot with the new kittens. However, he sometimes seems stiff in the hind region in the mornings, and his muscle mass there is clearly less – not what I’d expect if this was just an activity related weight loss. Also, he’s 9 and a half, so I called the vet and took him in this morning. Yes, the weight loss is real. (1 lb since July!!! I can’t believe I didn’t notice earlier, but his winter coat is so fluffy…)  The vet thinks I’m right – drew blood and said he can palpate the thyroid and one side is noticeably larger. We find out results from the blood work tomorrow, providing everything is routine. Assuming he is Hyper-T, if he’s OK after initial treatment with tapazole, I think we’ll go for radiation if possible. Anyone with experience with this? How did your cat do? I figure Trouble has a lot of years left (I hope) so I’d like to give him the best option. Surgery seems a little risky, but I would opt for that if I can’t find a good rad place. I suspect my vet will have a lot of info for me. Thanks for listening – yes, I’m nervous on Trouble’s behalf. But at least this can be treatable. Laura Before you buy.

Response:

I had my Indigo treated with the radioactive iodine about 4 1/2 years ago. He is 18 1/3 now.  He is still doing alright but old age has set in.  The cost was well worth it and he was only away 4 nights. — Larry and Two Black Cats, Two Grey, One White & one White&Grey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Everyone – I’m just looking for some good thoughts for Trouble. We noticed that he has been losing weight, and this past week my husband said he noticed it too. It was a gradual thing, and we both apparently initially assumed it was due to his increased activity because he plays a lot with the new kittens. However, he sometimes seems stiff in the hind region in the mornings, and his muscle mass there is clearly less – not what I’d expect if this was just an activity related weight loss. Also, he’s 9 and a half, so I called the vet and took him in this morning. Yes, the weight loss is real. (1 lb since July!!! I can’t believe I didn’t notice earlier, but his winter coat is so fluffy…)  The vet thinks I’m right – drew blood and said he can palpate the thyroid and one side is noticeably larger. We find out results from the blood work tomorrow, providing everything is routine. Assuming he is Hyper-T, if he’s OK after initial treatment with tapazole, I think we’ll go for radiation if possible. Anyone with experience with this? How did your cat do? I figure Trouble has a lot of years left (I hope) so I’d like to give him the best option. Surgery seems a little risky, but I would opt for that if I can’t find a good rad place. I suspect my vet will have a lot of info for me. Thanks for listening – yes, I’m nervous on Trouble’s behalf. But at least this can be treatable. Laura Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Laura, If Trouble is, in fact, hyperthyroid, monitor kidney function *very* closely while he’s on Tapazole.  If there’s *any* deterioration in kidney function while he’s on antithyroid med, *do not* go ahead with any permanent thyroid treatment. Over the past few years, many small animal vets have noticed what appears to be a relatively high incidence of overt renal failure following treatment of hyperthyroidism.  As the number of cats treated for hyperthyroidism increases,  so has the incidence of renal failure following treatment. Hyperthyroidism or treatment of hyperthyroidism doesn’t cause renal failure, but treatment may irreversibly unmask underlying renal disease. Hyperthyroidism increases cardiac output and renal blood flow; thyrotoxicosis, therefore, could conceivably elevate glomerular filtration rate (GFR)  causing renal function to appear normal and masking underlying renal disease.  Following treatment of feline hyperthyroidism and return to euthyroidism, cardiac output and, hence, GFR could drop, causing clinical development of overt renal failure in cats with underlying disease. I would *thoroughly* investigate kidney function before thyroid treatment. BUN/creatinine measurements are crude and insensitive tests for renal function; ~75% of kidney function must be lost before elevations in either analyte are noticed.  Despite the fact Trouble’s BUN/Creatinine may be normal, he may have underlying renal disease which may be irreversibly unmasked by I-131 Tx.  Measurement of glomerular filtration rate is a much more accurate test of renal function than either serum BUN, creatinine or both – *especially* if Trouble has lean muscle loss.  Because creatinine is mostly formed in muscle, a loss of muscle mass will result in elevated serum creatinine. I think you’ll find the below study of particular interest: Vet Radiol Ultrasound 1997 May-Jun;38(3):231-8 Changes in renal function in cats following treatment of hyperthyroidism using 131I. Adams WH, Daniel GB, Legendre AM, Gompf RE, Grove CA Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville If you need any more information, please don’t hesitate to let me know. http://maxshouse.com/Endocrine_System_&_Disorders.htm#Hyperthyroidism As an aside, speak to your vet about potassium supplementation – may reduce his stiffness. Good luck. Phil.

Phil, Thanks so much for the info. I read a lot of additional information yesterday (that’s how I deal with nervousness – look for info and digest it)including the info at your always informative site. I will be sure to look at the paper you recommended too. I also am concerned about the lean muscle loss and the possibility of a kidney problem that’s masked by his thryoid condition (if that’s what it is). My vet is a terrific guy, and I will definitely bring up the glomerular filtration rate monitoring idea as well as the potassium. He has good instincts (I think of him as the Dr. Doolittle of Georgetown because I’m convinced he talks to the animals)and he’s always up to date. To make things better, we have the ACVIM diplomates at the VRA up in Gaithersburg, and I imagine they can do just about anything there. They are listed on the CRF page for kidney specialists, and they have a number of really sharp people there. So, I know we can find the help for whatever is needed. But yes, we will be very careful before we do anything irreversible. You mentioned in another post that some vets are using another drug (not Tapazole) to treat Hyper-T cats and that it is better tolerated with fewer side-effects. It wasn’t a beta-bocker – it was another drug specifically to block thyroid hormone effects, I believe. If you remember what it is, can you let me know? Thanks so much – I will post an update when I know what’s going on. Laura Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Laura, If Trouble is, in fact, hyperthyroid, monitor kidney function *very* closely while he’s on Tapazole.  If there’s *any* deterioration in kidney function while he’s on antithyroid med, *do not* go ahead with any permanent thyroid treatment. Over the past few years, many small animal vets have noticed what appears to be a relatively high incidence of overt renal failure following treatment of hyperthyroidism.  As the number of cats treated for hyperthyroidism increases,  so has the incidence of renal failure following treatment. Hyperthyroidism or treatment of hyperthyroidism doesn’t cause renal failure, but treatment may irreversibly unmask underlying renal disease. Hyperthyroidism increases cardiac output and renal blood flow; thyrotoxicosis, therefore, could conceivably elevate glomerular filtration rate (GFR)  causing renal function to appear normal and masking underlying renal disease.  Following treatment of feline hyperthyroidism and return to euthyroidism, cardiac output and, hence, GFR could drop, causing clinical development of overt renal failure in cats with underlying disease. I would *thoroughly* investigate kidney function before thyroid treatment. BUN/creatinine measurements are crude and insensitive tests for renal function; ~75% of kidney function must be lost before elevations in either analyte are noticed.  Despite the fact Trouble’s BUN/Creatinine may be normal, he may have underlying renal disease which may be irreversibly unmasked by I-131 Tx.  Measurement of glomerular filtration rate is a much more accurate test of renal function than either serum BUN, creatinine or both – *especially* if Trouble has lean muscle loss.  Because creatinine is mostly formed in muscle, a loss of muscle mass will result in elevated serum creatinine. I think you’ll find the below study of particular interest: Vet Radiol Ultrasound 1997 May-Jun;38(3):231-8 Changes in renal function in cats following treatment of hyperthyroidism using 131I. Adams WH, Daniel GB, Legendre AM, Gompf RE, Grove CA Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville If you need any more information, please don’t hesitate to let me know. http://maxshouse.com/Endocrine_System_&_Disorders.htm#Hyperthyroidism As an aside, speak to your vet about potassium supplementation – may reduce his stiffness. Good luck. Phil. Phil, Thanks so much for the info. I read a lot of additional information yesterday (that’s how I deal with nervousness – look for info and digest it)including the info at your always informative site.

I’m happy you found the information on my site helpful.  Some not-so-sharp dolts criticized the information as being "too technical"…. I will be sure to look at the paper you recommended too. I also am concerned about the lean muscle loss and the possibility of a kidney problem that’s masked by his thryoid condition (if that’s what it is).

Was his T4 levels checked?  If so, what was the serum T4 concentration? My vet is a terrific guy, and I will definitely bring up the glomerular filtration rate monitoring idea as well as the potassium. He has good instincts (I think of him as the Dr. Doolittle of Georgetown because I’m convinced he talks to the animals)and he’s always up to date.

A good, current vet is the most crutial factor.  I’m *very* happy you have one!  I think mine was a cat in a past life! He’s also an ACVIM Diplomate and former veterinary professor.  Every trip to the vet is like going to "class"!  He even gives me "homework"! To make things better, we have the ACVIM diplomates at the VRA up in Gaithersburg, and I imagine they can do just about anything there.

There’s a renal funtion test that’s even more accurate; allows the assessment of each kidney indivudually, but I don’t think you need to go that far.  GRF or Renal Plasma Flow (RPF) is certainly good enough. Creatinine clearance is a reasonably good indicator of glomerular filtration rate (GFR) in the cat because creatinine is excreted exclusively by glomerular filtration. Sodium sulfanilate also is excreted by glomerular filtration.  These tests are a "tad" more expensive than BUN/creatinine, but well worth it. They are listed on the CRF page for kidney specialists, and they have a number of really sharp people there.

I heard the specialty of Internal Medicine will be broken down into indivudual specialties including endocrinology. They already have cardiology, oncology, neurology.  ’Gotta meet some pretty tough criteria to be certified as an ACVIM Diplomate, more than than ABVP. So, I know we can find the help for whatever is needed. But yes, we will be very careful before we do anything irreversible.

As I mentioned, if kidney function begins to deteriorate while on methimazole, you may not need to test GFR.  If kidney function remains stable while on medication, he should be alright – but I’d still go for test. You mentioned in another post that some vets are using another drug (not Tapazole) to treat Hyper-T cats and that it is better tolerated with fewer side-effects. It wasn’t a beta-bocker – it was another drug specifically to block thyroid hormone effects, I believe. If you remember what it is, can you let me know?

Ipodate.  Its used in cats who don’t tolerate methimazole well.  However, cats with severe hyperthyroidism are less likely to respond to ipodate than are cats with mild or moderate disease.  You’ll need to get it from a compounding pharmacist.  Don’t use Propylthiouracil, the side effects are much more severe than with methimazole. Here’s a study: J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jul 1;211(1):63-7 Ipodate treatment of hyperthyroidism in cats. Murray LA, Peterson ME (The "Peterson ME" is Mark Peterson of Cornell and now head of the endocrinology dept at Animal Medical Center in NYC) Thanks so much – I will post an update when I know what’s going on. Laura

Please do. Good luck. Phil. — "Cat people are different, to the extent that they                  generally are not conformists.  How could the be, with a cat running their lives?"                                                          –Louis Camuti     Feline Healthcare: http://maxshouse.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Everyone – I’m just looking for some good thoughts for Trouble. We noticed that he has been losing weight, and this past week my husband said he noticed it too. It was a gradual thing, and we both apparently initially assumed it was due to his increased activity because he plays a lot with the new kittens. However, he sometimes seems stiff in the hind region in the mornings, and his muscle mass there is clearly less – not what I’d expect if this was just an activity related weight loss. Also, he’s 9 and a half, so I called the vet and took him in this morning. Yes, the weight loss is real. (1 lb since July!!! I can’t believe I didn’t notice earlier, but his winter coat is so fluffy…)  The vet thinks I’m right – drew blood and said he can palpate the thyroid and one side is noticeably larger. We find out results from the blood work tomorrow, providing everything is routine. Assuming he is Hyper-T, if he’s OK after initial treatment with tapazole, I think we’ll go for radiation if possible. Anyone with experience with this? How did your cat do? I figure Trouble has a lot of years left (I hope) so I’d like to give him the best option. Surgery seems a little risky, but I would opt for that if I can’t find a good rad place. I suspect my vet will have a lot of info for me. Thanks for listening – yes, I’m nervous on Trouble’s behalf. But at least this can be treatable. Laura

Laura, If Trouble is, in fact, hyperthyroid, monitor kidney function *very* closely while he’s on Tapazole.  If there’s *any* deterioration in kidney function while he’s on antithyroid med, *do not* go ahead with any permanent thyroid treatment. Over the past few years, many small animal vets have noticed what appears to be a relatively high incidence of overt renal failure following treatment of hyperthyroidism.  As the number of cats treated for hyperthyroidism increases,  so has the incidence of renal failure following treatment. Hyperthyroidism or treatment of hyperthyroidism doesn’t cause renal failure, but treatment may irreversibly unmask underlying renal disease. Hyperthyroidism increases cardiac output and renal blood flow; thyrotoxicosis, therefore, could conceivably elevate glomerular filtration rate (GFR)  causing renal function to appear normal and masking underlying renal disease.  Following treatment of feline hyperthyroidism and return to euthyroidism, cardiac output and, hence, GFR could drop, causing clinical development of overt renal failure in cats with underlying disease. I would *thoroughly* investigate kidney function before thyroid treatment. BUN/creatinine measurements are crude and insensitive tests for renal function; ~75% of kidney function must be lost before elevations in either analyte are noticed.  Despite the fact Trouble’s BUN/Creatinine may be normal, he may have underlying renal disease which may be irreversibly unmasked by I-131 Tx.  Measurement of glomerular filtration rate is a much more accurate test of renal function than either serum BUN, creatinine or both – *especially* if Trouble has lean muscle loss.  Because creatinine is mostly formed in muscle, a loss of muscle mass will result in elevated serum creatinine. I think you’ll find the below study of particular interest: Vet Radiol Ultrasound 1997 May-Jun;38(3):231-8 Changes in renal function in cats following treatment of hyperthyroidism using 131I. Adams WH, Daniel GB, Legendre AM, Gompf RE, Grove CA Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville If you need any more information, please don’t hesitate to let me know. http://maxshouse.com/Endocrine_System_&_Disorders.htm#Hyperthyroidism As an aside, speak to your vet about potassium supplementation – may reduce his stiffness. Good luck. Phil. — "With the qualities of cleanliness, discretion, affection, patience,         dignity, and courage that cats have, how many of us,    I ask you, would be capable of being cats?’ –Fernand Mery         Feline Healthcare & More:  http://maxshouse.com

Response:

Hi, Everyone – I’m just looking for some good thoughts for Trouble. We noticed that he has been losing weight, and this past week my husband said he noticed it too. It was a gradual thing, and we both apparently initially assumed it was due to his increased activity because he plays a lot with the new kittens. However, he sometimes seems stiff in the hind region in the mornings, and his muscle mass there is clearly less – not what I’d expect if this was just an activity related weight loss. Also, he’s 9 and a half, so I called the vet and took him in this morning. Yes, the weight loss is real. (1 lb since July!!! I can’t believe I didn’t notice earlier, but his winter coat is so fluffy…)  The vet thinks I’m right – drew blood and said he can palpate the thyroid and one side is noticeably larger. We find out results from the blood work tomorrow, providing everything is routine. Assuming he is Hyper-T, if he’s OK after initial treatment with tapazole, I think we’ll go for radiation if possible. Anyone with experience with this? How did your cat do? I figure Trouble has a lot of years left (I hope) so I’d like to give him the best option. Surgery seems a little risky, but I would opt for that if I can’t find a good rad place. I suspect my vet will have a lot of info for me. Thanks for listening – yes, I’m nervous on Trouble’s behalf. But at least this can be treatable. Laura Before you buy.

Response:

I had my Indigo treated with the radioactive iodine about 4 1/2 years ago. He is 18 1/3 now.  He is still doing alright but old age has set in.  The cost was well worth it and he was only away 4 nights. — Larry and Two Black Cats, Two Grey, One White & one White&Grey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Everyone – I’m just looking for some good thoughts for Trouble. We noticed that he has been losing weight, and this past week my husband said he noticed it too. It was a gradual thing, and we both apparently initially assumed it was due to his increased activity because he plays a lot with the new kittens. However, he sometimes seems stiff in the hind region in the mornings, and his muscle mass there is clearly less – not what I’d expect if this was just an activity related weight loss. Also, he’s 9 and a half, so I called the vet and took him in this morning. Yes, the weight loss is real. (1 lb since July!!! I can’t believe I didn’t notice earlier, but his winter coat is so fluffy…)  The vet thinks I’m right – drew blood and said he can palpate the thyroid and one side is noticeably larger. We find out results from the blood work tomorrow, providing everything is routine. Assuming he is Hyper-T, if he’s OK after initial treatment with tapazole, I think we’ll go for radiation if possible. Anyone with experience with this? How did your cat do? I figure Trouble has a lot of years left (I hope) so I’d like to give him the best option. Surgery seems a little risky, but I would opt for that if I can’t find a good rad place. I suspect my vet will have a lot of info for me. Thanks for listening – yes, I’m nervous on Trouble’s behalf. But at least this can be treatable. Laura Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Laura, If Trouble is, in fact, hyperthyroid, monitor kidney function *very* closely while he’s on Tapazole.  If there’s *any* deterioration in kidney function while he’s on antithyroid med, *do not* go ahead with any permanent thyroid treatment. Over the past few years, many small animal vets have noticed what appears to be a relatively high incidence of overt renal failure following treatment of hyperthyroidism.  As the number of cats treated for hyperthyroidism increases,  so has the incidence of renal failure following treatment. Hyperthyroidism or treatment of hyperthyroidism doesn’t cause renal failure, but treatment may irreversibly unmask underlying renal disease. Hyperthyroidism increases cardiac output and renal blood flow; thyrotoxicosis, therefore, could conceivably elevate glomerular filtration rate (GFR)  causing renal function to appear normal and masking underlying renal disease.  Following treatment of feline hyperthyroidism and return to euthyroidism, cardiac output and, hence, GFR could drop, causing clinical development of overt renal failure in cats with underlying disease. I would *thoroughly* investigate kidney function before thyroid treatment. BUN/creatinine measurements are crude and insensitive tests for renal function; ~75% of kidney function must be lost before elevations in either analyte are noticed.  Despite the fact Trouble’s BUN/Creatinine may be normal, he may have underlying renal disease which may be irreversibly unmasked by I-131 Tx.  Measurement of glomerular filtration rate is a much more accurate test of renal function than either serum BUN, creatinine or both – *especially* if Trouble has lean muscle loss.  Because creatinine is mostly formed in muscle, a loss of muscle mass will result in elevated serum creatinine. I think you’ll find the below study of particular interest: Vet Radiol Ultrasound 1997 May-Jun;38(3):231-8 Changes in renal function in cats following treatment of hyperthyroidism using 131I. Adams WH, Daniel GB, Legendre AM, Gompf RE, Grove CA Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville If you need any more information, please don’t hesitate to let me know. http://maxshouse.com/Endocrine_System_&_Disorders.htm#Hyperthyroidism As an aside, speak to your vet about potassium supplementation – may reduce his stiffness. Good luck. Phil.

Phil, Thanks so much for the info. I read a lot of additional information yesterday (that’s how I deal with nervousness – look for info and digest it)including the info at your always informative site. I will be sure to look at the paper you recommended too. I also am concerned about the lean muscle loss and the possibility of a kidney problem that’s masked by his thryoid condition (if that’s what it is). My vet is a terrific guy, and I will definitely bring up the glomerular filtration rate monitoring idea as well as the potassium. He has good instincts (I think of him as the Dr. Doolittle of Georgetown because I’m convinced he talks to the animals)and he’s always up to date. To make things better, we have the ACVIM diplomates at the VRA up in Gaithersburg, and I imagine they can do just about anything there. They are listed on the CRF page for kidney specialists, and they have a number of really sharp people there. So, I know we can find the help for whatever is needed. But yes, we will be very careful before we do anything irreversible. You mentioned in another post that some vets are using another drug (not Tapazole) to treat Hyper-T cats and that it is better tolerated with fewer side-effects. It wasn’t a beta-bocker – it was another drug specifically to block thyroid hormone effects, I believe. If you remember what it is, can you let me know? Thanks so much – I will post an update when I know what’s going on. Laura Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Laura, If Trouble is, in fact, hyperthyroid, monitor kidney function *very* closely while he’s on Tapazole.  If there’s *any* deterioration in kidney function while he’s on antithyroid med, *do not* go ahead with any permanent thyroid treatment. Over the past few years, many small animal vets have noticed what appears to be a relatively high incidence of overt renal failure following treatment of hyperthyroidism.  As the number of cats treated for hyperthyroidism increases,  so has the incidence of renal failure following treatment. Hyperthyroidism or treatment of hyperthyroidism doesn’t cause renal failure, but treatment may irreversibly unmask underlying renal disease. Hyperthyroidism increases cardiac output and renal blood flow; thyrotoxicosis, therefore, could conceivably elevate glomerular filtration rate (GFR)  causing renal function to appear normal and masking underlying renal disease.  Following treatment of feline hyperthyroidism and return to euthyroidism, cardiac output and, hence, GFR could drop, causing clinical development of overt renal failure in cats with underlying disease. I would *thoroughly* investigate kidney function before thyroid treatment. BUN/creatinine measurements are crude and insensitive tests for renal function; ~75% of kidney function must be lost before elevations in either analyte are noticed.  Despite the fact Trouble’s BUN/Creatinine may be normal, he may have underlying renal disease which may be irreversibly unmasked by I-131 Tx.  Measurement of glomerular filtration rate is a much more accurate test of renal function than either serum BUN, creatinine or both – *especially* if Trouble has lean muscle loss.  Because creatinine is mostly formed in muscle, a loss of muscle mass will result in elevated serum creatinine. I think you’ll find the below study of particular interest: Vet Radiol Ultrasound 1997 May-Jun;38(3):231-8 Changes in renal function in cats following treatment of hyperthyroidism using 131I. Adams WH, Daniel GB, Legendre AM, Gompf RE, Grove CA Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville If you need any more information, please don’t hesitate to let me know. http://maxshouse.com/Endocrine_System_&_Disorders.htm#Hyperthyroidism As an aside, speak to your vet about potassium supplementation – may reduce his stiffness. Good luck. Phil. Phil, Thanks so much for the info. I read a lot of additional information yesterday (that’s how I deal with nervousness – look for info and digest it)including the info at your always informative site.

I’m happy you found the information on my site helpful.  Some not-so-sharp dolts criticized the information as being "too technical"…. I will be sure to look at the paper you recommended too. I also am concerned about the lean muscle loss and the possibility of a kidney problem that’s masked by his thryoid condition (if that’s what it is).

Was his T4 levels checked?  If so, what was the serum T4 concentration? My vet is a terrific guy, and I will definitely bring up the glomerular filtration rate monitoring idea as well as the potassium. He has good instincts (I think of him as the Dr. Doolittle of Georgetown because I’m convinced he talks to the animals)and he’s always up to date.

A good, current vet is the most crutial factor.  I’m *very* happy you have one!  I think mine was a cat in a past life! He’s also an ACVIM Diplomate and former veterinary professor.  Every trip to the vet is like going to "class"!  He even gives me "homework"! To make things better, we have the ACVIM diplomates at the VRA up in Gaithersburg, and I imagine they can do just about anything there.

There’s a renal funtion test that’s even more accurate; allows the assessment of each kidney indivudually, but I don’t think you need to go that far.  GRF or Renal Plasma Flow (RPF) is certainly good enough. Creatinine clearance is a reasonably good indicator of glomerular filtration rate (GFR) in the cat because creatinine is excreted exclusively by glomerular filtration. Sodium sulfanilate also is excreted by glomerular filtration.  These tests are a "tad" more expensive than BUN/creatinine, but well worth it. They are listed on the CRF page for kidney specialists, and they have a number of really sharp people there.

I heard the specialty of Internal Medicine will be broken down into indivudual specialties including endocrinology. They already have cardiology, oncology, neurology.  ’Gotta meet some pretty tough criteria to be certified as an ACVIM Diplomate, more than than ABVP. So, I know we can find the help for whatever is needed. But yes, we will be very careful before we do anything irreversible.

As I mentioned, if kidney function begins to deteriorate while on methimazole, you may not need to test GFR.  If kidney function remains stable while on medication, he should be alright – but I’d still go for test. You mentioned in another post that some vets are using another drug (not Tapazole) to treat Hyper-T cats and that it is better tolerated with fewer side-effects. It wasn’t a beta-bocker – it was another drug specifically to block thyroid hormone effects, I believe. If you remember what it is, can you let me know?

Ipodate.  Its used in cats who don’t tolerate methimazole well.  However, cats with severe hyperthyroidism are less likely to respond to ipodate than are cats with mild or moderate disease.  You’ll need to get it from a compounding pharmacist.  Don’t use Propylthiouracil, the side effects are much more severe than with methimazole. Here’s a study: J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jul 1;211(1):63-7 Ipodate treatment of hyperthyroidism in cats. Murray LA, Peterson ME (The "Peterson ME" is Mark Peterson of Cornell and now head of the endocrinology dept at Animal Medical Center in NYC) Thanks so much – I will post an update when I know what’s going on. Laura

Please do. Good luck. Phil. — "Cat people are different, to the extent that they                  generally are not conformists.  How could the be, with a cat running their lives?"                                                          –Louis Camuti     Feline Healthcare: http://maxshouse.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Everyone – I’m just looking for some good thoughts for Trouble. We noticed that he has been losing weight, and this past week my husband said he noticed it too. It was a gradual thing, and we both apparently initially assumed it was due to his increased activity because he plays a lot with the new kittens. However, he sometimes seems stiff in the hind region in the mornings, and his muscle mass there is clearly less – not what I’d expect if this was just an activity related weight loss. Also, he’s 9 and a half, so I called the vet and took him in this morning. Yes, the weight loss is real. (1 lb since July!!! I can’t believe I didn’t notice earlier, but his winter coat is so fluffy…)  The vet thinks I’m right – drew blood and said he can palpate the thyroid and one side is noticeably larger. We find out results from the blood work tomorrow, providing everything is routine. Assuming he is Hyper-T, if he’s OK after initial treatment with tapazole, I think we’ll go for radiation if possible. Anyone with experience with this? How did your cat do? I figure Trouble has a lot of years left (I hope) so I’d like to give him the best option. Surgery seems a little risky, but I would opt for that if I can’t find a good rad place. I suspect my vet will have a lot of info for me. Thanks for listening – yes, I’m nervous on Trouble’s behalf. But at least this can be treatable. Laura

Laura, If Trouble is, in fact, hyperthyroid, monitor kidney function *very* closely while he’s on Tapazole.  If there’s *any* deterioration in kidney function while he’s on antithyroid med, *do not* go ahead with any permanent thyroid treatment. Over the past few years, many small animal vets have noticed what appears to be a relatively high incidence of overt renal failure following treatment of hyperthyroidism.  As the number of cats treated for hyperthyroidism increases,  so has the incidence of renal failure following treatment. Hyperthyroidism or treatment of hyperthyroidism doesn’t cause renal failure, but treatment may irreversibly unmask underlying renal disease. Hyperthyroidism increases cardiac output and renal blood flow; thyrotoxicosis, therefore, could conceivably elevate glomerular filtration rate (GFR)  causing renal function to appear normal and masking underlying renal disease.  Following treatment of feline hyperthyroidism and return to euthyroidism, cardiac output and, hence, GFR could drop, causing clinical development of overt renal failure in cats with underlying disease. I would *thoroughly* investigate kidney function before thyroid treatment. BUN/creatinine measurements are crude and insensitive tests for renal function; ~75% of kidney function must be lost before elevations in either analyte are noticed.  Despite the fact Trouble’s BUN/Creatinine may be normal, he may have underlying renal disease which may be irreversibly unmasked by I-131 Tx.  Measurement of glomerular filtration rate is a much more accurate test of renal function than either serum BUN, creatinine or both – *especially* if Trouble has lean muscle loss.  Because creatinine is mostly formed in muscle, a loss of muscle mass will result in elevated serum creatinine. I think you’ll find the below study of particular interest: Vet Radiol Ultrasound 1997 May-Jun;38(3):231-8 Changes in renal function in cats following treatment of hyperthyroidism using 131I. Adams WH, Daniel GB, Legendre AM, Gompf RE, Grove CA Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine, Knoxville If you need any more information, please don’t hesitate to let me know. http://maxshouse.com/Endocrine_System_&_Disorders.htm#Hyperthyroidism As an aside, speak to your vet about potassium supplementation – may reduce his stiffness. Good luck. Phil. — "With the qualities of cleanliness, discretion, affection, patience,         dignity, and courage that cats have, how many of us,    I ask you, would be capable of being cats?’ –Fernand Mery         Feline Healthcare & More:  http://maxshouse.com

Response:

Hi, Everyone – I’m just looking for some good thoughts for Trouble. We noticed that he has been losing weight, and this past week my husband said he noticed it too. It was a gradual thing, and we both apparently initially assumed it was due to his increased activity because he plays a lot with the new kittens. However, he sometimes seems stiff in the hind region in the mornings, and his muscle mass there is clearly less – not what I’d expect if this was just an activity related weight loss. Also, he’s 9 and a half, so I called the vet and took him in this morning. Yes, the weight loss is real. (1 lb since July!!! I can’t believe I didn’t notice earlier, but his winter coat is so fluffy…)  The vet thinks I’m right – drew blood and said he can palpate the thyroid and one side is noticeably larger. We find out results from the blood work tomorrow, providing everything is routine. Assuming he is Hyper-T, if he’s OK after initial treatment with tapazole, I think we’ll go for radiation if possible. Anyone with experience with this? How did your cat do? I figure Trouble has a lot of years left (I hope) so I’d like to give him the best option. Surgery seems a little risky, but I would opt for that if I can’t find a good rad place. I suspect my vet will have a lot of info for me. Thanks for listening – yes, I’m nervous on Trouble’s behalf. But at least this can be treatable. Laura Before you buy.

Response: